0:05 well joining me now to discuss the
0:07 conflict in Israel and Gaza it's a TV
0:10 host in Satur is Bassam YF Bassam it's
0:11 great to have you back on the program I
0:12 wish it was under different
0:15 circumstances um first of all what is
0:18 your reaction to What happened on
0:19 October the
0:22 7th oh it was terrible of course I mean
0:24 we kind of get our news kind of also
0:26 secondhand because you know my my wife's
0:29 family they live in Gaza they they have
0:33 uh cousins and uncles there um and uh
0:36 their house also was bombed we haven't
0:38 been able to communicate with them for
0:39 the past three days communication are
0:42 lost so we don't know actually what is
0:45 the uh how is like how are they're doing
0:47 but you know we used to that I mean it's
0:50 just like it's it's it's very repetitive
0:51 we used to that we used to them being
0:52 bombed every time and moving from one
0:55 place to the other uh you know it's just
0:57 like those Palestinians they're very
0:59 dramatic ah Israel killing us but they
1:01 never die I mean they always come back
1:03 you know they they're very difficult to
1:04 kill very difficult people to kill I
1:07 know because I'm married to one I tried
1:10 many times couldn't kill her I mean
1:11 there's a dark humor there and I
1:13 understand why because oh it's not dark
1:15 humor I really I try to get to her every
1:18 time but she uses our kids as human
1:20 Shields I can never take her
1:23 out again I understand the the humor but
1:26 I to be serious basam about this tonight
1:28 there is I will be serious now I I I I
1:30 will be serious I was watching your
1:31 interview with Ben Shapiro and I'll will
1:33 tell you one thing I think that Ben
1:36 Shapiro is one of the smartest people
1:38 who ever walked this Earth he's very
1:40 very smart I follow him and I believe
1:41 everything he said and when he came out
1:44 on your show his solution was and I
1:46 quote his solution was that the solution
1:49 for this is for Israel to Annex Gaza and
1:51 to kill as many son of [ __ ] as
1:53 possible to make sure that this will
1:56 never happen again and anyone anyone who
1:59 call for a ceasefire will be a terrorist
2:01 simp so God forbid I don't want to be
2:03 labeled as a terrorist sympathizer so I
2:05 agree with Ben shapir I think we should
2:08 kill as many son of [ __ ] as possible let
2:14 me so far 3,500 people were killed
2:16 including 5,000 son of [ __ ] in the
2:19 bombing of the Baptist uh uh uh hospital
2:21 as we speak right now onethird of those
2:24 3,500 were children so my question to
2:27 Ben Shapiro is how many more son of
2:31 [ __ ] do we need to kill Beno is happy
2:35 because it changes from changes from I'm
2:38 I'm I'm sorry that list I'm I'm I'm
2:40 really at a disadvantage here I'm
2:41 looking at a camera I don't see you I
2:42 can hear you on my the reason I'm
2:44 interrupting is I think you might be I
2:46 think I think you're conflating
2:47 different interviews with Ben Shapiro he
2:49 didn't use the phrase sons of [ __ ]
2:51 with me let me play to you what he
2:53 actually said on my did he did he did go
2:55 back go back to your interview he didn't
2:56 that was another interview but let me
2:57 play what he said to me
3:00 here well I frankly I I don't believe in
3:01 proportionate response to terrorism I
3:02 believe that the way that you stop
3:03 terrorism is with wildly
3:05 disproportionate response that doesn't
3:06 mean in terms of targeting civilians it
3:07 means in terms of killing as many
3:09 terrorist as humanly possible and
3:11 allowing them to dictate the terms of
3:13 Engagement by hiding behind civilians in
3:15 areas that that they're supposedly
3:17 responsible for means that the only
3:19 option for Israel is to surrender to
3:21 hamas's hatred of its own citizens its
3:23 willingness to use its own children as
3:25 human Shields no no country worth it
3:28 salt could ever do that now that is sign
3:30 substantively different to what you said
3:32 he said right he's talking there
3:35 specifically about I AG I agree I I I
3:37 agree with him the the thing is the
3:39 question is what is a proportionate
3:40 response because it has been different
3:43 from one tier to other so if you look to
3:45 this graph for example this is the death
3:46 of Israeli and Palestinians and it's
3:48 changing from one year to year it's like
3:50 fluctuating like crypto so my question
3:53 is today what is the going rate today
3:55 for human lives I mean 2014 was a great
3:58 year for Ben chapiro 88 Israelis were
4:01 died and there was 2, 329 Palestinians
4:03 killed on the other side that is one
4:06 Israeli for 27 uh Palestinian that is a
4:08 very good exchange rate what I'm saying
4:11 is what is the exchange rate for today
4:12 so you guys will be happy that's my
4:14 question well it's not me it's not me
4:16 guys I I I'm not on either side no no no
4:18 not you like when I say you guys I say
4:20 like the people on the other side of
4:22 that I know that you you don't think
4:24 like that appear you're one of the good
4:26 guys but let me tell you something I
4:28 mean I'm the reason that I'm I'm using
4:30 this is that I mean I I can't remember
4:32 what happened in 2014 and there was no
4:34 music festival but there there must be
4:36 something I mean they must do something
4:38 it is their fault it has to be something
4:42 I mean 2018 300 Palestinian died ah
4:45 who's counting you know so the thing is
4:48 what my question is let's find what is
4:50 the exchange rate for human life today
4:53 so we know expect the future death of
4:55 Palestinians and would be happy to it my
4:57 my response to that would be this B I
4:59 thought carefully about this because I
5:01 think it's very tricky for people like
5:04 me to immerse ourselves into a conflict
5:06 where we're not directly involved and I
5:07 thought carefully about what I feel
5:10 about this I feel that the scale of what
5:13 Hamas did on October the 7th supersedes
5:16 anything else I've seen in this conflict
5:19 really ever that the the savagery The
5:22 Butchery the slaughter of 1300 people
5:23 the shooting of babies the kidnapping of
5:25 grandmother and so on so if if we can
5:27 agree on that which I think is
5:29 inarguable then the question then
5:32 becomes again about proportion I I don't
5:34 disagree that there's been a lot of bad
5:35 stuff on both sides going back
5:38 historically for decades but if we agree
5:39 that this was on a different level
5:43 altogether quite deliberately by Hamas
5:46 designed designed to provoke designed to
5:47 here's my question let me ask you a
5:49 question and and the question you you
5:51 raised it earlier about proportion I
5:53 honestly don't know what the
5:56 proportionate response is uh I I I
5:57 honestly don't I I don't I've been
5:59 watching the air strik what's your
6:01 question well I was ask I well I would
6:04 ask you if you were
6:06 Israel what would you was Israel if you
6:09 were Israel and that had happened to you
6:11 what would you think would be the
6:13 appropriate way for the country to
6:15 respond I would do exactly like Israel
6:17 did Kill as many people as possible
6:19 since the the the word is letting me do
6:22 it I mean I I can do it because I can
6:23 you know but the thing is you know what
6:24 I agree with you and you know what I'm
6:26 going to be even ahead of you because I
6:28 see the question coming do you condemn
6:31 Hames for the ATR yes I condemn Hamas I
6:33 condemn Hamas I condemn Hamas is the
6:35 source of all evil there for and you
6:37 know what let's for a minute imagine a
6:40 world without Hamas right what will this
6:43 word look like let's give this word a
6:45 name and let's name this word the West
6:48 Bank Hamas has absolutely no control in
6:49 the West Bank and since the beginning of
6:52 this only through August 37 Palestinian
6:56 kids were killed no music festival no
6:58 paragliding no Hamas since the
7:00 occupation of the West Bank 7,000
7:02 Palestinians were killed no music
7:06 festival no paragliding no Hamas I can
7:08 go on and on and on and on no no but you
7:09 don't you don't need to because in a way
7:11 in a way you're preaching to the choir
7:12 i' I've followed this crisis Oh no
7:14 you're not preaching so the the thing is
7:16 like I I know I know that what you're
7:19 saying has validity of course of course
7:21 Pi Pierce by the way Pierce Pierce
7:24 Pierce I am at a disadvantage here I can
7:31 interrupt me and interrupt my points
7:33 sure so because this this this has to be
7:35 fair because if you want to only hear
7:37 your opinion I can just condemn ham and
7:40 go home I can do that so if you do you
7:41 want to do that or do you have a much
7:43 more Nuance conversation no I absolutely
7:45 want have a Nuance conversation I wasn't
7:46 aware I was interrupting you I thought I
7:48 was amazing so let's I mean I mean I
7:50 would say I would say I really applaud
7:52 Israel for doing one thing that no
7:55 military force in the word does because
7:57 I heard I heard Ben Shapiro and I heard
8:00 Rond santis and they said they said
8:03 Israel is the only military force in the
8:05 world that warns civilians before
8:08 bombing them I mean how [ __ ] cute
8:10 that is so nice of them because with
8:12 this logic if Russian troops started
8:15 warning ukrainians before bombing their
8:17 houses we're cool with Putin right I
8:20 mean okay Habibi you have warned them go
8:23 invade it's fine you have done your job
8:25 I mean the thing is and I understand and
8:28 I also heard Ben Shapiro talking about
8:31 uh about human shield so you remember my
8:33 wife's family they live in Gaza so I
8:36 asked them I told them when Israel give
8:39 you the nice warning the cute warning
8:41 does Hamas force you to stay in your
8:44 home so you can be bombed and use a as
8:47 as human shield you know Hassen here my
8:49 my wife's uh my wife's cousin he's a he
8:51 he's a loser you know he he told me you
8:52 know when I asked him does that happen
8:56 he told me no the lying son of a [ __ ]
8:58 lied to me I told him you don't
9:00 understand Ben Shapiro and the SST keep
9:02 saying that Israel warns you and Hamas
9:05 ask you to keep to stay put so I I I
9:06 told you he's a loser he never kept a
9:08 job he even like failed in all of the
9:10 interviews to become like a human shield
9:13 I I I would believe Ben shapir so let's
9:15 go with that no no no let's no no let me
9:16 ask at some point I must be able to ask
9:20 you questions it's not age if we agree
9:23 if we agree the the 14,000 casualties I
9:25 mean who's counting our human shield
9:27 does that mean that every single one of
9:30 those civilians will standing obscuring
9:32 a military Target behind them because
9:34 that's a lot of weapons I mean Hamas is
9:36 packing no of course it doesn't and look
9:39 I you know so so so there is some
9:40 collateral damage lots of collateral
9:42 damage yes it's fine yeah you kill you
9:44 kill some to save some and then kill
9:46 some more yeah I agree yeah yeah yeah I
9:48 AG I would let me ask you this again it
9:50 comes back to proportionate response
9:52 when the world when the world decided it
9:55 had to get rid of Isis because of the
9:57 appalling Butchery they were carrying
10:01 out uh it did so by by also killing very
10:04 sadly a lot of civilians along the way
10:06 by doing air strikes against places
10:08 which killing civilians are inevitable
10:09 you said that in the beginning point
10:11 it's inevitable but once Israel once
10:14 Israel has decided that they want to get
10:16 rid of Hamas and Hass is embedded with
10:18 civilian population I'm very concerned
10:20 about what's going to happen next I've
10:21 written a column tonight saying I
10:24 remember the Iraq which I oppos right I
10:25 remember all this so my question for you
10:28 is I know I what would be what would you
10:29 think would be an appropriate response
10:32 by Israel to what happened well well the
10:34 these are years of disproportionate
10:35 responses of Israel did it solve the
10:37 solution did it solve the problem did
10:40 did it work before so it will what what
10:42 will be the surprise this time what will
10:44 be the twist that will make this work
10:47 this time what what will be different
10:50 this time seriously I mean like this is
10:52 only the last 15 years I mean because
10:55 it's too too many papers I just got this
10:57 but what how will this will be different
11:00 and the thing is it I am so glad in the
11:02 introduction that you mentioned the Iraq
11:04 War I applaud you Pier for saying that
11:06 because you were honest about it you
11:10 said that spreading lies like wmds make
11:11 people look at those people as less of
11:13 humans and they would accept the death
11:16 of a million Iraqi whether by Shanks or
11:18 by Invasion right you are you you are a
11:20 good man this is amazing and you know
11:23 what is similar is when you spread the
11:26 lies of 40 decapitated babies although
11:29 it was refuted so what happens when
11:31 people hear that you know killing babies
11:33 is horrible but when you say decapitated
11:35 40 babies you are planting a certain
11:38 image a certain trigger in people's mind
11:40 who has said that who has said 4 who
11:42 have said that you have said 40
11:44 decapitated who has said that you have
11:46 you have repeat no no I haven't what
11:48 I've never said that you haven't said on
11:52 your show 40 decapitated babies never
11:54 Ben shapir didn't say it Ronda santis
11:57 didn't say nobody has said okay P nobody
12:00 said it no oh okay okay okay maybe I am
12:02 wrong decapitated here you're wrong I've
12:04 never said that the thing what happened
12:06 what yeah no you're you're wrong but the
12:09 thing is when Iraq the thing is the same
12:11 thing is happening in Iraq Ben Shapiro
12:13 once tweeted not even about Gaza about
12:15 the West Bank when Israel continued to
12:19 build the illegal set he said 2017
12:21 Israel likes to build things and Arabs
12:25 not Palestine not Hamas Arabs like the
12:27 bomb crap and live in open sewage yeah I
12:30 thought that was very very the isra the
12:32 Israeli defense the isra defense
12:35 minister he said those are human animals
12:36 and the thing is Ben shapir should know
12:38 better because you know long before the
12:40 Holocaust before Jewish people were
12:42 thrown in the gas
12:44 Chambers the Nazi propaganda called them
12:47 rats now as a human being I will never
12:49 accept that another human being being
12:52 thrown in a into a g chamber but a rat
12:56 kill a 10 kill a th000 3,500 they are
12:58 son of aitu they are human animals who
13:00 live in open SI and decapitate babies
13:03 and because of that propaganda Mr Morgan
13:06 that guy in Illinois the 71 years old
13:08 guy he killed stabbing the six years old
13:10 Palestinian kid in Ino 26 times and he
13:12 used to play with him they used to be
13:14 friends but he went in marching into
13:17 their apartment stabbing his mother and
13:20 killing him shouting all Muslims could
13:23 die it took you 8 years to change one
13:26 word from Jewish to Muslim and then you
13:29 transferred your guilt to us and took
13:31 away our leg let me ask you let me ask
13:32 you a question that deal sucks man let
13:35 me ask you a question uh how do we get
13:39 from where we are now to
13:42 peace well first of all you need to
13:45 change the perception uh Nikki Haley the
13:47 American presidential candidate said we
13:49 are in Israel in this because it's a
13:52 fight between EV good and evil now if
13:54 you already decided someone is good he
13:57 can do no evil and if you decide that
13:59 someone is evil it's it's good to kill
14:02 them killing them is good you see the
14:04 thing is it is it is not like something
14:06 new I mean I I I look at history and I
14:08 see I'm sorry to say and I'm sorry to
14:11 say this but westerners has always dealt
14:13 like this with indigenous people you
14:15 first treated them like Savages you know
14:17 Native American First Nation Aboriginal
14:19 they're Savages kill all the Savages and
14:21 then when they're almost extinct you
14:23 start feeling sorry for them you know
14:26 like animals so maybe maybe the solution
14:29 is that we kill as many Palestinian as
14:32 possible so the few of them that remains
14:34 do not bother you and
14:36 maybe for another 100
14:39 years a tree hugger let me just challeng
14:42 you on this and he will campaign for for
14:43 preserving the keep talking about
14:45 westerners like me okay so let me return
14:49 the favor okay Hamas is dedicated to the
14:52 complete eradication of Jewish people I
14:55 am not the spokesman for ham why do you
15:00 why do you spokesman [ __ ] hate them
15:02 are you happy you're missing my point
15:04 you're talking in a generalized way
15:06 about people in the west who always talk
15:10 about Arabs as Savages I don't no no I'm
15:13 talking the campaign I led the media
15:15 campaign in this country against the
15:18 Iraq War okay so I don't see I don't see
15:20 people in the Middle East Savages but
15:23 say the good ones what I say talking
15:24 about you you're great no no it's not
15:27 about me being great it's about it's
15:30 about the way ham behaved on October the
15:33 7th was like Savages like a pack of
15:35 savages it was the worst atrocity
15:36 against Jewish people since the
15:39 Holocaust there has to be of course
15:41 there has to be a response and my
15:44 question beic my question for you ising
15:47 the history by what is the proportionate
15:49 response but I don't know but there's no
15:51 Hamas in the West Bank and they're still
15:54 dying there so what's your excuse I
15:56 don't have any
15:58 excuse okay what's what's your
16:00 explanation sorry sorry uh my earpiece
16:02 went down I I listen I don't make any
16:05 pretense that this hasn't been a massive
16:07 problem okay between Palestine and
16:09 Israel going back to the mid-40s we all
16:12 know this right I I'm I'm I'm yeah yeah
16:14 yeah Pierce Pierce Pierce listen I'm not
16:15 saying that you're making excuse but if
16:17 you are adopting a certain point of view
16:19 you have to at least defend it I'm
16:20 telling you there is no Hamas in the
16:23 West Bank what is what is the excuse not
16:25 your excuse what is the accuse to kill those
16:26 those
16:28 people well it's listen this question
16:31 question of proportionality is one no no
16:32 no answer my question I've been
16:34 answering your question you answer mine
16:36 it's actually not my job to answer your
16:39 questions it's not okay not your not
16:41 your job I I I agree with you I'm more
16:44 interested in you who has family in Gaza
16:47 I'll who's an Egyptian in the Middle
16:48 East right I'm more interested in what
16:51 you have to say okay I'm telling you I'm
16:53 telling you I think Hamas is the problem
16:56 okay now let's say Hamas is removed
16:58 let's ham yeah I I I'm agreeing with
16:59 everything about
17:02 you want me to go ham I will condemn ham
17:08 hus Hass everybody guys say wait I can't
17:11 hear you the uh the
17:19 oops okay yeah uh I I do need I think I
17:22 think just go go back is he there you go
17:23 back you go back can you go back okay go
17:25 thank you guys can you hear B yeah yeah
17:27 now I can hear so here's the thing can
17:29 you hear okay so is let's say for
17:31 example Hamas ceased to exist okay do
17:33 you hear me yes yeah Hamas ceased to
17:37 exist today now right now in Palestine
17:40 in West Bank and and uh and Gaza 20% of
17:43 Palestinians go through Israeli prison
17:46 system whether in prisonment whether
17:49 interrogation whether torture and the
17:51 rest of them they live a life of daily
17:55 loss of land of homes of life and they
17:57 are they are suffocated by the so let me
17:59 ask you something if you are a pal inian
18:01 living into these conditions for decades
18:04 would you would you sympathize with your
18:07 oppressor or sympathize with the people
18:09 who claim they resist them even if they
18:10 are terrorists I have made I have made
18:12 no secret that I think the conditions
18:14 Palestinians have had to exist under are
18:16 completely unacceptable I've said that
18:19 for years so the question then becomes
18:21 how do you forge peace between two
18:24 Waring parts of that region who for
18:28 decades have approached peace in my view
18:30 with mutual sledgehammers with no actual
18:32 desire to have peace and I think it
18:33 comes down in the end to great
18:35 leadership and I I don't think there's
18:37 greaters I don't think well hang on let
18:38 me make my point I don't think there's
18:40 great leadership on either side where is
18:43 the Nelson Mandela figure here to come
18:44 through all
18:47 this nelon Mandela where is that n
18:50 Mandela NE Nelson Mandela actually have
18:52 criticized Israel for being a horrible
18:55 State all of the South African tivist
18:58 have actually isra my point is about how
19:01 he how he responded to a country that
19:06 was so divided is a temp is a template
19:08 is a template for how you get to peace
19:11 isn't it I I I I haven't met Danon
19:13 Mandela so I wouldn't know but like I I
19:15 I there's a point there's a there's a
19:16 very important Point here you know I
19:19 want to understand what is the logic of
19:22 Israel carpet bombing Gaza I mean if
19:24 there's a logic if it is a good if this
19:26 will make Israel safe I want to hear the
19:28 logic so if they continue bombing what
19:30 are are they hoping to achieve we know
19:32 what we know what their stated aim is
19:34 their stated aim is to eradicate and
19:37 wipe out Hamas they believe Hamas are
19:38 living are living predominantly in
19:41 Northern Gaza they also are aware
19:43 they're living amongst civilians so it's
19:45 an incredibly difficult thing as I said
19:47 as I said in my mon you know it is very
19:49 very difficult to see how they do this
19:52 without massive collateral damage so if
19:54 I can understand this correctly
19:56 basically Israel is doing this to
19:58 pressure the Palestinian community in
20:00 Gaza to turn against Hamas is that right
20:03 I'm sure that's part of it yes that's
20:05 part of it so this is exactly what
20:06 terrorist organization do because
20:08 terrorist organizations will have no
20:10 chance beating a whole nation in battle
20:12 so they terrorize and they kill the
20:14 civilians in order to spread fear and
20:16 Terror so they can turn against their
20:19 government to change their policy or to
20:21 resign you have just compared Israel
20:24 with Isis no I haven't I don't I don't
20:26 see any comparison between it's going to
20:29 be the headlines tomorrow is Isis only
20:30 only amongst people who weren't
20:33 listening the comparison which is more
20:35 apite is Isis and Hamas they are both
20:38 nihilistic Terror groups intent on
20:40 killing as many Jewish people and others
20:43 as they can possibly kill and you can't
20:44 you can't you can't get peace with
20:47 people like that absolutely you know
20:48 what I'm going to do something that
20:50 nobody done on your television you know
20:52 what I'm going to do on your episode I'm
20:54 I'm going to do I'm going to pretend
20:56 that I'm an Israeli citizen I'm going to
21:00 put my my myself in in the in the place
21:03 of an Israeli settler in the kaputs and
21:05 I want to speak to my prime minister
21:07 Benyamin nany mhm Mr bamin Netanyahu I
21:09 have voted for you because you have
21:12 promised us peace and prosperity and
21:14 security on the 7th of October those son
21:17 of bches Hamas they went into defense
21:20 that is regularly heavy heavily guarded
21:23 usually if there's like a dove that
21:26 comes close to it it will be shot those
21:29 people went in and they went for 6 hours
21:33 before IDF forces was deployed killing
21:36 our friends our families kidnapping our
21:39 grandmothers and babies and went in I
21:41 want to ask you Mr Prime Minister after
21:43 you have fractured the Israeli community
21:45 and you have [ __ ] our courts our
21:47 Supreme Courts what are you doing with
21:49 the money being given to you to the
21:51 United States also you are carpet
21:54 bombing Gaza with absolutely no regard
21:57 to our hostages our people I heard a
21:59 rumor in the kaputs that you're doing
22:01 that as an you let that happen to as an
22:03 excuse to carpet bomb Gaza so you push
22:05 them into Sinai and I didn't believe
22:07 that I like not my prime minister he can
22:09 never do that and then I watched an
22:12 interview for Danny Alon he was your
22:14 Chief adviser he was also the Israeli
22:16 ambassador to the United States and you
22:18 know what he said Mr Prime Minister he
22:20 said that the solution for those
22:22 Palestinians is to go into a vast land
22:26 of Sinai and live into tent cities
22:29 temporarily huh temporarily when wink
22:31 until we build Gaza again and then we
22:33 invite you
22:37 back we've seen this movie before so and
22:39 I and when I saw this I couldn't explain
22:42 to my fellows in the Kuts how come our
22:44 Israeli government is trading human
22:46 lives for another piece of land so as an
22:49 Israeli citizen I need to hold my
22:51 Israeli government accountable and as an
22:54 American citizen I want to know all of
22:56 these money that we are giving to Israel
22:59 we giving them $4 billion every year Joe
23:01 Biden said it's the best investment they
23:04 ever America ever done well I if I am in
23:06 the in the place of Joe Biden I would
23:09 say sorry don't speak
23:12 uh I I would I would say if I was Joe
23:14 Biden I would go down and whisper in the
23:16 ears of Netanyahu and tell them I hate
23:18 bad Investments they haunt me you know
23:20 like little finger in Game of Thrones
23:21 but the thing is the thing is this is
23:24 the problem Israel always victimizes
23:26 itself and I have never seen a victim
23:27 putting their oppressor Under Siege and
23:30 bombing them 47 Israel wants you to
23:33 believe that they are the victim is
23:34 dealing with Israel is so difficult it's
23:36 like being in a relationship with a
23:38 narcissistic psychopath he [ __ ] you up
23:40 and then he makes you think it's your
23:42 fault you look at Israel as Superman but
23:44 they're really homelander they are like
23:46 they they are
23:48 shooting and they are annoyed with the
23:50 splashes B I want to say two things one
23:52 if you could just slightly Mound your
23:53 language we are uncensored but if you
23:56 keep swearing we have to apologize to
23:58 viewers you may be offended by that I
24:00 understand passions Run High so let's
24:01 not get too bugged down about the old
24:03 swear I apologize to the viewers I
24:05 apologize to the viewers for my language
24:07 my second question is this after site of
24:09 of dead civilian after the break we have
24:11 the managing director of The Daily wire
24:13 which is Ben Shapiro's company we were
24:16 going to interview him on his own but
24:18 he's happy to come on and talk with you
24:21 directly if you are prepared to
24:24 stay well of course I I I can stay but
24:27 again I am [ __ ]
24:30 this I am in a disadvantage and I would
24:32 like to have my space to respond okay
24:35 we'll come back after the break I I I
24:37 because because because here's the thing
24:38 we got to go to a break when we come
24:41 back from the break be you and Jeremy B
24:43 my my I have news we're taking a short
24:45 break Bon I'll be back welcome back toon
24:47 for more on the situation in Israel I'm
24:49 joined now by the CEO and co-founder of
24:51 the daily wi Ben Shapiro's partner
24:53 Jeremy boring Jeremy thank you very much
24:54 indeed for joining me I'm sorry we
24:57 demoted you earlier to M MD you are the
24:59 CEO and co-founder uh you know Ben
25:01 Shapiro better than anyone really I did
25:02 a big interview with Ben obviously the
25:05 other night um which went around the
25:07 world um and has sparked a big reaction
25:10 including from uh Our Guest Bassam youf
25:12 who's still with us first of all you've
25:13 been listening to to Bassam and what
25:16 he's been saying what's your
25:18 response well first of all I make it a
25:20 point not to speak for Ben Shapiro he's
25:22 got a 20 IQ points on me and speaks for
25:24 a living professionally so he's much
25:26 better prepared to defend himself but as
25:28 his business partner as his best friend
25:29 I I do feel like I have to respond to
25:31 the things that bosam was just saying uh
25:34 first of all the question of how many
25:35 sons of [ __ ] have to be killed in
25:38 order to end this conflict I suppose
25:40 that the answer is as many of them as it
25:43 takes that doesn't mean that I or Ben or
25:45 any decent person in their right mind is
25:48 happy with the killing of civilians uh I
25:50 posted at the very beginning of this
25:52 conflict that a a woman or a child blown
25:55 apart in Gaza is just as tragic as a
25:57 Jewish baby killed in one of the
25:59 settlements that doesn't mean that
26:00 Israel's actions and the actions of
26:03 Hamas are morally equivalent you know
26:05 the tragedy is the tragedy but the moral
26:08 equivalency is nonsense if you if you
26:10 entered Israel with the express purpose
26:12 of targeting and murdering civilians
26:14 with your own hands and cold blood that
26:16 is not comparable to Israel bombing
26:18 Targets in the Gaza Strip and killing
26:20 civilians as a terrible tragic
26:22 consequence war war is terrible war is
26:24 an awful thing that's why decent people
26:27 don't lightly engage in War and why
26:30 Hamas should not have inited this war
26:31 you know we can talk about the history
26:32 of the Israeli conflict I'm not a
26:34 professional political commentator I'm a
26:38 I'm a CEO I'm a screenwriter uh and I'm
26:40 certainly not Ben Shapiro I'm not here
26:42 to discuss the history of the Israeli
26:44 Palestinian conflict but we all saw what
26:46 happened on October 7th and the idea
26:48 that Israel was not going to react
26:50 severely to that or that Israel should
26:53 not react severely to that is ludicrous
26:56 and the idea Beno should be a moderating
26:59 voice that bapiro should be what saying
27:01 no Israel should not respond in this
27:03 situation that's nonsense let me ask you
27:04 though Jeremy what I mean the question
27:06 which I think is the big question what
27:08 is a proportionate response to that
27:11 outrage on October the 7th which is the
27:13 worst attack on Jewish people since the
27:15 Holocaust what is proportionate if it's
27:18 true as reports are suggesting tonight
27:20 that there may have been a hospital hit
27:23 by an Israeli strike and up to 500
27:25 people or more have died that would seem
27:27 to me if that is verified and it's not verified
27:28 verified
27:30 you know we don't know exactly what has
27:31 happened other than there's been a hit
27:33 on this hospital but if that is verified
27:35 to have been an Israeli strike that will
27:38 strike many people as disproportionate
27:39 certainly well first of all I don't know
27:41 what a proportionate response is or why
27:43 we would want it I suppose a
27:44 proportionate response would be for
27:46 3,000 Israelis to go through the fence
27:49 gun down innocent Palestinian women and
27:50 children burn their bodies burn them
27:52 alive take hostages rape their women no
27:54 one wants a proportionate response no no
27:56 moral person could possibly call for a
27:58 proportionate response the purpose of
28:01 war is to defeat your enemy the West has
28:03 in my lifetime forgotten the purpose of
28:06 War because the true cost of war is so
28:08 terrible the last time the West engaged
28:11 in war and won it was World War II and
28:13 they did it through incredible brutality
28:16 they did it by bringing their enemies to
28:18 heal that is not a thing to that's not a
28:20 thing to rah rah about that's not a
28:22 thing to look forward to as I said all
28:25 decent people should avoid war but I
28:28 think the sort of lie of the postor war
28:31 to the post-war consensus lie is that
28:33 somehow War uh in which you kill a bunch
28:36 of people and don't secure Victory is
28:38 morally Superior to war where you do
28:39 secure Victory I would say that the only
28:42 way to morally justify a war is to win
28:44 it otherwise you're are the very
28:45 argument that brought you into the war
28:47 this enemy must be defeated ends up
28:49 being proven a lie I mean Afghanistan I
28:51 think America had every right to go into
28:54 Afghanistan uh the Taliban was harboring
28:57 Osama Bin Laden and al- Qaeda al- Qaeda
28:58 flew planes into build in the United
29:00 States killed thousands of our citizens
29:03 uh brought the nation into Untold Agony
29:05 pain and horror America had every right
29:07 morally to go in and destroy the Taliban
29:08 and Destroy al- Qaeda but I would argue
29:10 the Taliban now but the Taliban now
29:13 rules in Afghan the war was not won but
29:14 that's my point actually I've done a
29:16 column about this tonight uh for the sun
29:19 here in the UK which is I I was editor
29:21 of a newspaper when the Iraq War
29:24 happened I uh opposed it very
29:26 aggressively as the editor of the paper
29:29 um and sadly we were born out by events
29:31 it was a complete disaster the Iraq War
29:33 in my view it was illegally contested I
29:36 think um and the consequences were
29:37 appalling in terms of loss of life a
29:39 million people in terms of Isis being
29:41 allowed to breed and create their merry
29:42 hell around the world in terms of
29:45 complete dismantlement of of Iraq itself
29:47 as a as a functioning country uh and I
29:50 think Afghanistan again 20 years of you
29:52 know attacking an enemy which is now
29:54 running the country again seemed to me
29:56 again to be kind of pointless and I do
30:00 Wonder whether Israel in its Blind Fury
30:03 which I completely understand has
30:05 thought through the consequences of
30:08 actually launching a full air ground and
30:11 sea offensive into Gaza as to actually
30:14 what happens at the end of that well I
30:15 suppose Israel wasn't really given the
30:17 opportunity to fully contemplate what
30:19 the consequences of that action might be
30:22 because Israel didn't instigate this war
30:24 this war was instigated by a horrible
30:26 terrorist attack on Israel and a state
30:28 is put in a position where it has to
30:30 respond now one might argue that the
30:32 very fact that Israel has yet to
30:33 actually launch their ground Invasion
30:35 means that they are actually making a
30:37 calculation about what the cost will be
30:40 what victory looks like any rational
30:42 person any decent person can engage in a
30:44 conversation about what is the
30:46 appropriate response for Israel of
30:48 course they can but this sort of moral
30:50 equivalency thing I don't think is a
30:51 sign of decency to engage in a
30:53 conversation about moral equivalency let
30:55 me bring uh bassim back in you've been
30:56 listening to this bassim what's your
30:58 response to what Jeremy's been saying
31:00 I'm I'm sorry I didn't catch the
31:03 gentleman's name it's Jeremy boring he's
31:05 the chief executive of the daily wire
31:08 co-founder with Ben Shapiro of a DA wire
31:10 hi Jeremy please say hello to Ben
31:11 Shapiro and please tell him that I do
31:13 think he is the smartest person to ever
31:15 walk the earth thank you so much so as
31:18 response to Jeremy uh I I I I I agree
31:20 with everything you said I mean what is
31:22 disproportionate I mean that you he just
31:25 used the examples from second world war
31:27 and America showing that civilian
31:31 casualty is u i mean I I heard his voice
31:34 he was very sad and he as he was telling
31:36 us it is so inevitable to kill so many
31:38 civilians because it's something that we
31:40 cannot avoid I hear the sadness in his
31:42 voice and I know that it's a very
31:44 difficult decision to kill all of these
31:46 civilians because that's for a higher
31:47 cast and I understand but my question I
31:50 I have two questions the question is how
31:52 can you justify The Killing In The West
31:55 Bank where Hamas does not exist and if
31:58 that disproportionate it response during
31:59 the over all of these years have
32:02 actually worked what will be new this
32:05 time that did not happen before I just
32:08 want to that that that was my question
32:11 okay that was my question I'm so so so
32:13 now so now now if I ask the question can
32:16 I can I say something on my side a
32:19 little B with respect person bam with
32:20 respect I gave you half the show to have
32:22 your side Jeremy's had a lot less time
32:25 uh I'm going to have to you want to I'm
32:26 going to have to I'm going to have to
32:27 let you go because we've been on there
32:29 with you 40 minutes okay byee but listen
32:31 bye bye by I'd like to talk to you again
32:32 and thank you for joining the program I
32:34 appreciate it oh by by by the way my my
32:36 my wife's family is is all right and
32:38 they send us a house it's it's bombed
32:40 it's beautiful it's it's going to be a
32:43 good uh uh like Halloween theme so well
32:44 I'm very sorry for what your family are
32:47 going through in Gaza and I mean by the
32:48 way I don't know I I don't know my I
32:50 don't know him by the way I don't I
32:51 haven't actually met them they didn't
32:53 even come to my wedding they couldn't
32:55 because they are stuck in Gaza and she
32:56 never saw them because you know Gaza is
32:58 not a destination
33:01 we hear their voices and it's uh they
33:03 they die it's fine it's fine Bim I wish
33:04 your family all the very best thank you
33:06 for joining me I appreciate I I don't
