High-functioning men often self-destruct in private due to societal pressures, internalized shame, and a learned suppression of emotions, leading to maladaptive coping mechanisms.
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Why do so many high functioning men
self-destruct in private?
>> It's like you're like describing my my
clients. Oh boy. Um I think there's a
number of different reasons. There's
there's trying to maintain this image
externally and part of that image is the
perfectionist. So there's never any room
for downfall. There's never any room for
weakness. there's never any room for
problems um or issues. And so for a lot
of men that becomes
it becomes something that they start to
medicate and usually that has rooting in
childhood right that they had to be a
certain way in order to garner love to
garner attention. So for a lot of super
high performing men they're you know
they grew up in an environment where
they kind of had to be perfect and if
they were perfect enough then they would
get affection then they would get love
they would get praise they get
validation and so for a lot of young
guys it's like a lot of men in general
it's if I can be perfect enough and I
can perform well enough
>> then everything will be okay but if that
starts to falter just a little bit then
it says something about me personally it
means that something's wrong with me and
then shame starts to creep in and they
don't want anybody to know that that's
happening. And so slowly over time,
because they can't admit that there's
something wrong, they can't admit that
there's an issue. They can't sort of
vocalize it, they start to medicate that
shame or they start to medicate the
perceived weakness, the insecurity, the anxiety
anxiety
>> uh with booze or weed or women or, you
know, hookers or whatever it is, right?
whatever their sort of drug choice is,
could be gambling or whatever.
>> And slowly over time, that becomes the
method that they need in order to just
maintain homeostasis. And it's almost
like there's a debt building in the
background that's building over time.
Every little mess up, every little screw
up is just sort of acrewing this this
massive debt inside of them and
eventually it just craters. Um, and so,
you know, in a lot of ways, they need to
be able to bring forward some of those
weaknesses or insecurities or the
anxieties or, you know, the the trauma
that they've just been holding on for
[ __ ] decades, you know.
>> Um, so I think that's a huge part of it. And
And
>> and I think for a lot of men, it's it's
correlated to how it's correlated to
their sense of masculinity and their
sense of manhood. Mhm.
>> So, it's like, well, if I admit this
weakness, if I admit that I'm
struggling, then it means that there's
something wrong with me as a man, that
I'm less masculine. Um, and I don't
think that that's necessarily something
that we think about top of mind. It's
more per performance at all costs. And
so, I don't want to admit that there's
something going on behind the scenes.
>> As you're saying that, the word I don't
know why, but the word toxic masculinity
came up. This actually feels like a kind
of place that it suits in a bizarre sort
of way that it's taking traits of
masculinity and making them a
performance, forcing yourself to
perform. And it's a way not that
masculinity itself is toxic, which is
what the current like version of that
is. that this is a way to turn your
masculinity into something which becomes
like a prison guard in a way that sort
of locked you in jail for doing the
non-masculine thing and if you try you
can't necessarily break out of that. So
the high functioning guys are um what
the world rewards them for in public
they struggle with in private. >> Correct?
>> Correct?
>> High standards, hyper vigilance,
neuroticism, obsession, drive, desire
for conquer and mastery, lots of
competition, lots of comparison between
myself and other people. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> That is a type of pressure. uh and that pressure
pressure
causes them to
set very high standards and if they ever
fall short of those standards that
causes pain. I am not enough because I
have these high standards. These high
standards are why I've managed to become
so high functioning in the real world.
I'm a hard charging sort of dude. But
But
as uh fears about not being able to keep
up with this work rate that I've already
established for myself, uh my comparison
group is getting uh better and more
successful. Uh I'm finding it hard. Like
my physiology just can't keep up with
the burnout level that I'm requiring of
myself. All of these things build up
build up build up. And there needs to be
some sort of a release valve. One of the
release valves could be learning self
love, self-compassion, having somebody
that you can speak to about this, a
supportive partner who makes you feel
safe and secure in your like vulnerabilities.
vulnerabilities.
But if you aren't prepared to do that or
you don't have access to that, you turn
to something else, which is also like a
pressure release valve. Is that a fair
>> that's a fair I think we could probably
just summarize it by saying and this is
something that I wrote about uh in in my
book years ago which is that in male
culture it's very common that we teach
strength through suppression
>> and for high performing men that is way
overindexed right so it's I need to
develop competency capability strength
whether it's physical emotional mental
in the boardroom whatever But I'm going
to do that by suppressing the unsavory
parts of myself. I'm going to suppress
um maybe it's empathy. I'm going to
suppress that I'm exhausted. I'm going
to suppress these types of things. And
there's a cost to that suppression. And
so, you know, part of the hallmark of
being a great man in society has always
been your capacity and capability of
suppressing certain things in certain
moments so that you could go and do the
thing that nobody else wanted to do.
Right? It's like Navy Seals need to
suppress certain things in certain
moments so that they can get a job done.
Same with CEOs and executives and
athletes and yada yada yada, right? So
there's merit in that uh skill in being
able to sort of say, I'm going to put
this aside for right now so that I can
get this done and execute on something.
But for high performers, it's usually
that that is way overdialed. It's it's
overindexed. And the the problem with
that is that when some of those things
that are being suppressed go undelt with
then you know it sort of amasses a ton
of psychological energy,
>> right? And so all of a sudden, you're
having to keep down years of I don't
really like this [ __ ] job or I'm
disappointed in this marriage or, you
know, this isn't really the like way
that I thought things would play out or
I feel ashamed of, you know, all of
these little micro failures that aren't
really a failure to external people, but
for me it feels like this monstrous
thing, you know, and so all of a sudden
this accumulation of all these
suppressed emotions and disappointments
and perceived failures start to mass. mass
mass
>> and that has a tremendous amount of
energy which then needs to be dealt
with. And the problem is that how high
performing men have often been taught to
deal with those things is that you know
we've sort of had this normalized
culture of you know drink it off or you
know go rub one off and you'll feel
better. And so how we try and hit the
reset button on some of those
suppression suppressed emotions is
usually maladaptive behaviors. They're
they're not supportive. you know, they
don't help you feel better, right? It's
like you go and hire the hooker or, you
know, you go and watch the porn or you
go and have a bender, you know, and take
some Molly and go to a rave and then the
next day you're like, "Fuck, I feel like
[ __ ] now." >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> You know, and so it kind of compounds
things over time.
>> So, a lot of high performing men will go
on this arc. And I think the other
thing, maybe I'll just add one more
wrench into the mix here, is many high
performing men have built high
performance off of what I call shame
based motivation, dark motivation. And
so part of their fuel source is they're
trying to run away from the man that
their father said they'd probably
become. They're trying to run away from
the shame or the pain that they
experienced growing up. And so it's like
I don't want to be a failure at all
costs, right? Or I [ __ ] hate myself
and so I'm going to turn myself into
this absolute beast that is incredible
in, you know, in many different ways.
Or, you know, he was like an insecure
teenager or something like that. And so
what happens for a lot of high
performing men is they're actually using
shame as a fuel source. And how they get
to a place of excellence is through
self-deprecation. And this is very
different for women. I thought like
women don't generally use shame as a
fuel source in the same way that we do
or pain in the same way that we do. A
lot of men will use pain that they're
carrying internally
>> to actually motivate themselves towards
a goal. And I'm sure you've seen this
with so many people have sat across from
you, right? Where you start to hear
about their story and you're like, "Holy
shit." I mean, the stuff that you went
through, the stuff you experienced. And
so for a lot of high performing men,
what we do is we take that pain, we take
that shame, we take that anger or that
rage and we use that as a fuel source
for a period of time and and eventually
what happens is it starts to have a net
negative um outcome.
>> Mhm. for there. We sort of reach a
tipping point where all of a sudden, you
know, I've worked with musicians where
they get all the accolades and the
awards and, you know, they're like world
famous rappers or what whatever uh
athletes that, you know, win the Super
Bowl and then the crash comes, you know,
and why is that? Well, they've been
using shame for so long to drive
themselves that they've never developed
an internal architecture of
self-recognition, of real self-recognition.
self-recognition.
And so they've just tried to motivate
themselves to success through shame and
self-deprecation. And so when the
accolades come, they can't actually
enjoy it. They're not able to actually
recognize that they've accomplished and
achieved something meaningful. And so
the whole time that they've been
working, that they've been driving
themselves and killing themselves and
working towards this like big
illustrious goal, all of a sudden it
comes and they're not able to actually
bask and they're like, "Wow, I actually
did that." And then the collapse
happens, you know, and that's when you
see them just [ __ ] crash out, you
know, and you see the, you know, the TMZ
stories and [ __ ] like that.
>> Is it a bad thing to use your pain as fuel?
fuel?
>> No, I don't think so. I mean, this is
this is the kind of this is the kind of
catch 22 about it is
>> feels like a paradox.
>> It is. It is very paradoxical. And and
I've sat with this for a long time
because I I think in my own journey,
this is very much the same thing. you
know, I used my my own pain, my own
shame, my own you sort of like um rage
towards the world to motivate myself for
a period of time. And I I don't think
it's necessarily a bad thing. It's if we
don't build the the counter tools to
support ourselves, the generative tools
to be able to appreciate, acknowledge
ourselves, to be able to recognize
ourselves for actually doing good, to be
able to receive goodness in the moments
where we actually achieve, accomplish
something. Um, that's when it becomes
problematic. So, it's not necessarily a
bad thing to allow pain or shame to
drive us and to motivate us. I think for
some people for a period of time that's
actually maybe necessary because they
need to to do something to disprove the
internal story of I'm a piece of [ __ ]
I'm never going to amount to anything.
I'm never I'm going to show that, you
know, I'm going to show dad. I'm going
to show mom that, you know, whatever it is.
is.
>> Um, and so it's not necessarily a bad
thing. However, it has a shelf life. And
if we don't develop the tools that are
meant to go in tandem with it, it's
always destined to fail. always destined
>> I find this topic like endlessly
fascinating. I think it's so
interesting. I had this one insight I've
been thinking about recently which is an
infinite one rep max. M so the idea that um
um
most people reach a particular level of pain
pain
and that level of pain is maybe before a
breakdown. Like the whole point of there
being warning signs is that they warn
you before the catastrophe occurs,
right? You slow down before you get
toward the cliff, not as you're going
off the cliff and you hit the brake as
you're going off the edge. Right?
>> I mean, you could do that. It's just
>> it's pointless, right? Like the whole
point of the warning signs was to stop
you from needing to go off the cliff in
the first place, >> right?
>> right?
>> Um, and one of the things that guys are
praised for and women as well,
especially meritocratic capitalist
society, blah blah.
>> If you're able to suppress, if you're
able to outwork, outsuffer, be more
conscientious, if you're able to put up
with discomfort, basically you're able
to do things that most other people
wouldn't want to do or couldn't do for
longer than other people.
society rewards you. So, you are praised
in public for this thing. But the
problem is that same skill in your
private life
>> causes you to be able to put up with a
level of suffering that is maladaptive. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like if you were able to say, um, I can work
work
16our days, 6 days a week for a year,
for 5 years to build my startup to make
Can you switch that off when it comes to
your current relationship which is
totally toxic and turning your brain
inside out and you go, "No, no, no. I'm
the David Gogggins of suffering, >> right?
>> right?
>> Like, [ __ ] carrying the boats. I'll
carry the whole fleet." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, give me more. Load more of this
onto me. And I I think it the
interesting element here is that your
capacity that you are praised for in
public is toxic in private and you don't
get to compartmentalize it. And the
issue with this conversation online a
lot of the time is that people are conflating
conflating
the uh place that the tool gets used.
Like the tool should be praised and is
very useful
>> in the real world. It's useful at your
father's funeral. It's useful at the job
interview. It's useful when the [ __ ]
hits the fan and you need to find a new
career or whatever. It is not useful
when it comes to dealing with your
health problems, >> right?
>> right?
>> It is not useful when it comes to
dealing with your intimate relationships
or the way that you and your friends
don't ever see each other or ever open
up to each other or whatever. And this
again, why do high functioning men often
self-destruct in private? Because the
same it's it's like having a sword and
the sword having two edges and it being
really great on the for swing and then
constantly [ __ ] nicking you on the
back swing. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> Does that make sense?
>> It makes total sense. Yeah. I mean
there's a I I think about this a lot
that I think we as modern men have
become very undimensional. we become
very single single singular uh
dimensional that there's a kind of
overindexing on these very specific
skills and a letting go of other skill
sets that could actually support us and
I think for a lot of high performing men
that that is that is a huge part of it
and it's challenging because I think one
of the things that I remember working
you know my wife and I have an office in
Manhattan and I was working with I was
working with this client years ago and
uh he owned a hedge fund and massive
hedge fund in the city and we started to
talk about some stuff that you know his
success was starting to be impaired
because he was dealing with really high
levels of anxiety and his whole life has
changed. he had had kids and blah blah
blah blah, but he had found himself in
this spot where he could cognitively see
that the way he had done things up until
that point was no longer going to work.
And he could also cognitively see that
this that he had been suppressing a
whole bunch of stuff from his youth, the
stuff that he had gone through in
childhood and um decisions that he had
made in the past. And he had never
really dealt or confronted with any of
them. And so he could cognitively see I
know that that's having a net negative
impact on me,
>> but I'm terrified to deal with this. And
this is the other thing that most high
performing men have to deal with is
they're terrified to deal with the
things that are actually starting to
crater them because they are worried
that it's going to hinder their
performance to deal with them.
>> So good. So good.
>> Right. So, it's like, well, how am I
going to perform in my job, running this
hedge fund, running this venture capital
firm, running this tech company, you
know, in whatever it is, whatever it is
that they're doing, whatever their
career is, how am I supposed to perform
to make money to provide for myself or
my family if I start to dive into this
emotional [ __ ]
>> If I'm deep in my fields while I'm deep
and it's such a real thing. It's like if
I get cracked open and I start to talk
about, you know, the neglect or my
father's death or whatever it is, how am
I going to function? And so there's this
very real fear of if I started to deal
with the thing that I know is bringing
me down, it's going to bring me down
even faster. >> And
>> And
for for a lot of men, that's the first
hurdle. That's the very first hurdle is
realizing that you can still function
and you can still perform
with your heart involved I guess you
could say you know with a kind of
emotional um deep dive that you you know
you go into stuff from your past being
able to go into the things that you've
been carrying and and it will be
different you know it does alter things
it does change things and you know in
there's a a great union psychologist
named Dr. James Hollis and he wrote this
book called The Middle Passage and it's
all about how we go through this kind of
turning in midlife and we've kind of
demonized it in Western culture. We talk
about the midlife crisis, right? People
have a midlife crisis and you know dude
buys a Porsche or you know they get
divorced and he gets the, you know, the
young woman uh and he's like, "Oh,
midlife crisis." But the the middle
passage is really meant to be this this
period of time where all the things that
weren't working that you've been
ignoring come to the surface and you're
confronted and having to deal with them.
And it's an incredibly important part of
maturation psychologically. But we try
and bypass that in our culture. We try
and get around dealing with the real uh
unsavory parts of our life that we've
just suppressed or repressed or ignored
or pretend, you know, aren't really
there. And it's incredibly important to
go through that phase because otherwise
maturation can't take place. There's a
very interesting correlation between
your ability to confront the unsavory
truths of your life and maturation.
Those two things go hand in hand. The
more that you can look at things that
are true that you dislike about yourself
and your life, the more that you're
going to be able to mature. And for us
in Western civilization and Western
culture, we don't like the descent,
right? Stock market goes up. And we
treat ourselves psychologically in the
same way as the stock market. We should
always be growing. And so any type of
descent, any type of collapse, any type
of falling apart, there's a there's not
only a demonization of that, but we have
devalued that period of time because
it's brutal. It's hard. And when you
hear people talk about it, usually
what you'll hear is people have really
found a deeper, truer sense of who they
are by going through these almost
catastrophic periods of time in their
life where things completely fall apart.
Everything, the business falls apart,
their sense of self falls apart, their
health falls apart, the relationship
that they thought was so steady falls
apart. and all of a sudden they're left
with now I have to face the truth of
what's always been there that I haven't
wanted to admit.
>> So I think that's a very important part
and for high performers they they're
just better at pushing it down. You know
they're just better at ignoring it for a
longer period of time and being very
high functional while doing it and then
eventually it catches up to them and
usually it's in a moment where
everything's come to fruition. you know,
it's like everything has happened and
everything's great and they're like,
"Yes." And then the collapse, you know,
and then in alchemy it's called the
negrado, right? It's called the decay,
the the blackening, the falling apart.
Um, and so it that's the period where
we, you know, things decay and fall
apart so that we can, you know, like a
phoenix rise from the ashes again and
and be be risen a new and a certain sort
of like a new way. So I feel like maybe
maybe you've gone through a little bit
of that recently with the health stuff and
and
>> permanently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> But like what's that been like because
it I mean kind of we're we're sort of
talking about you in a way
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Certainly
has been humbling. certainly made me
realize that the
the
game that I'm playing, even if I can win
it, uh is not necessarily the one that I
was designed for. And that is uh tamping
down sensitivity. Uh that is not
giving myself the level of self-care
that I probably need or deserve just
because I'm able to outwork my own
systems red lights. Mhm. Like
>> I just take a mallet to all of the
warning signs and I go like, you know,
the the classic like old car and all of
the engine lights are on, but you know
that if you whack the dashboard hard
enough, the connection drops out for a
little bit.
>> I was I was thinking like whack-a-ole.
Do you guys have that in the UK with
like the little moles that pop up and
you're just like, "No, no, no.
>> I'm not listening to you. I'm not
listening to you. I'm not listening to
you." Um, but I I think the toxic fuel
thing and that being
uh the the concern of well, if I face
this thing, I'm going to be less
effective. Maybe the world's going to
abandon me. The whole reason that I
started using the fuel was to get the
world to accept me and want me, and now
it kind of does. So, you're telling me
that I've got to let go of the thing
that I worked to get to face the thing
that I tried to run away from. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It seems like a cosmic joke. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> It seems so unfair.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's I think in many
ways it's a reminder that like we we
can't we just can't run from the things that
that
that we know we need to address and deal
with. You know, there's there's always a
toll. There's always a price. And I
think in a big way, part of the dilemma
that we all have to face as human beings
is, am I willing to pay the price to get
that? Am I willing to pay the price to
ignore that? You know, it's like I I
probably could be more successful in my
career. Um, but I'd have to sacrifice my
kids. And I'm away from them a lot as it
is. You know, I'm away from them right
now to be here. And and every time I
leave, it's a conscious choice. And I do
believe that, you know, as fathers, we
we need to venture out into the world
and and sort of show that for our kids.
But but there is this sort of trade-off
that happens. I'm curious. I'm curious
for you as you've kind of gone through
that like I mean everything's blown up.
Everything's like be I can't imagine how
different your life is now from the
first time that we had our conversation
two years ago.
>> And I know you went through health
issues. And so what's it been like for
you to have this sort of like meteoric
rise and then have something just sort
of like stop you dead in your tracks and
have to deal with something that was
unexpected? It feels a little bit like
being a fraud in some ways because you
have this uh perspective of yourself. Um
you have this expectation which you've
put on you. You have this expectation
that you think the world is putting on
you too.
>> Um and you don't really know no one no
one actually knows why people like them.
Like no one know from a content creator
perspective. They don't. Like your
friends will say stuff like dude I I I
love how [ __ ] good of a listener you
are and like you just always make me
feel safe regulated. Ra,
but there's the bit rate of feedback is
too low for us to actually be able to
understand. So you go, well, maybe it's
because like he kept going. Maybe it's
because he showed the consistency or the
resilience and yeah, to be completely
flatlined and kicked in the nuts by
something that you didn't choose to do,
by something that was, you know, out of
your control. Uh, felt
felt
scary. It feels like, wow, the thing
that I worked my entire life for is just
about to be taken away from me. And it's
through no choice of my own. And you
I've worked very hard for a long time to
make myself into someone that I'm proud
of and my better self slipping through
my fingers through no no action of my
own. And again, it feels like a like a
What would you say to the guy who
looks at the inner child work, the
mother wound, the
past patterns that haven't yet been
dealt with, the accumulation of sort of
psychological discomfort like that? Uh,
and say I think that's sort of woo
[ __ ] dude. Like that that doesn't
resonate with me. I understand that if
you break an arm, you need to put it in
a cast, but this is just a question of
overcoming suffering. It's noble to do
that. It's uh like the sort of life that
I want to live is someone who is stoic,
who does like just get on with stuff.
This Yeah, maybe I've hit some sort of a
wall. Maybe I'm sort of broken in pieces
on the ground. But the answer to that is
to just like David Gogins it and stay
hard as opposed to echart tole it and
like remind myself that I'm enough already.
already.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I do think that it's
a it's a bit of both. You know, I do
think that
part of the challenge that a lot of men
have with therapy and therapy culture is
that it's become hyper feminized. And so
I think when men look at that often
times it's like it doesn't resonate with
feels too woo woo. It feels too sort of
like soft skills. Um, but I think it
really is about a quest of knowing thyself.
thyself.
And you know, for
for every man, they're going to have a
journey and an inflection point where
they have to decide, am I going to learn
about who I am through trial and error
and external experiences, or am I going
to put on this, you know, the
psychological scuba diving mask and and
go in
>> and actually see who the [ __ ] I am? And
I think it's easier for men to say,
"I'll just go out in the world, right?
I'll just go build some shit." Because
the truth is that the scariest place to
be is inside of yourself. That's the
truth. Most men know that, you know,
barring some extreme situations and war
zones and stuff like that. But for the
majority of men, for a lot of the men
that I've worked with, I've worked with
Navy Seals, I've worked with executives,
I've worked with artists and athletes.
And every single man that I've ever
worked with, the most terrifying thing
for them is the truth of who they are
because there's parts of them that they
do not understand and that's scary.
There's parts of themselves that are out
of control and that's terrifying. And so
I think for
what I would say to those men is it
sounds like you're not really willing to
get in the arena with yourself. Period.
And you can find a medium that works for
you, right? Gogggins found a medium that
seems to work for him, which is that's
not my medium, right? I don't want to
get up at 5 a.m. or 4:00 a.m. every
single day and and run until my knees
are grinding bones against each other.
This just not it for me. Um, I want to
push myself physically for sure and I
want to build things and push myself
from an entrepreneurial standpoint for
sure. But there is something to be said
for the courage and the bravery that it
takes to go in to who you actually are
as a human being and start to discover
the unsavory parts of yourself. You
know, Jung had this great saying that
that the the real work of a man is the
real work of men is to discover their
own shadow. And if they can do that,
they have done something meaningful for
the world. And what he meant by that was
if you don't understand your own
maladaptive behaviors, your own sabotage
mechanisms, if you don't understand how
you are harming other people, then you
are you're essentially passing on harm
out into the world onto other people
inadvertently to your kids or your
family members or your friends. And
that's not really what I don't know how
else to say it, but it's like that's not
really where men find a sense of meaning
and purpose. Like in many ways, the
archetypes of great kings and great men,
they are the men that are servants to
others. And how they go about doing that
is by deeply understanding who they are.
And so I think for a lot of men when I
hear that, I'm like, you're scared to
know who you really are. You're actually
just afraid. And that's okay, but don't
[ __ ] lie to me that you're just not
afraid of who you actually are. Because
so many times I've sat with men and I'll
say, "Close your eyes." And the the
challenge that that man will have, he'll
be a killer in the boardroom. He will be
a killer on the football field. And I'll
say, "Sit down. Close your eyes. Take a
breath. Tell me what's happening inside
of you." An immediate confrontation. So
we as men are sculpted through
confrontation. Masculinity in some ways
requires confrontation. And I think
change requires confrontation. Any type
of psychological change requires
confrontation. I think the challenge is
that some men are afraid of the
confrontation with themselves. What are
your thoughts on that?
>> I think it's superbly accurate. I think
it makes for a very interesting
redefinition of the word bravery,
especially for men. Uh that emotionality,
emotionality,
uh tapping into yourself, being in touch
with who you really are, uh is seen as a
kind of weakness. And yet so much of
that that I see among guys is like a
sex-based gaslighting. >> Um
>> Um
>> I think I think it's I think that's one
of the things that's made you very
successful. It's it's those little
snips. Where did it even come from,
Chris? Sex based gaslighting.
>> Try and tell me it doesn't fit, though.
>> It 100% great. It's great.
>> It is because you're scared of what's
inside of you
>> as a man. You're terrified of looking
inside of yourself. You're terrified of
being in touch with your emotions.
You're terrified of your heart.
Don't pretend like you're not. And don't
pretend like the guys who are prepared
to face it are somehow lesser.
>> Right. Right. It's like I, you know, I
do uh martial arts. I do Muay Thai a
couple times a week. I absolutely love
it. I love knowing that I can like, you
know, kick some dude in the side of the
head that's like six, you know, 6'2. Uh,
but I also am not afraid of how I'm
feeling. And I do think that I think
this is what I was talking about before,
which is that we've become so
one-dimensional. We've overindexed on
like one specific thing. And that hasn't
been that hasn't been the truth for men
throughout human history. I mean, when
you look at when you look at men from
different walks of life and you know,
like the the Spartans, right? They do
hand-to-h hand combat, sword training,
fighting in groups, and then in the
afternoon they would learn how to write
poetry and dance and play music,
>> you know. So, it's it's always been a
part of of our development as men. It's
just recently in the last 100 plus years
that we've sort of condensed men down
into this one dimension. And it's great
if you want to pop out factory workers.
It's great if you want to produce armies
of people, armies of men that their sole
job for 10 hours a day is to put a
[ __ ] handle on an ice cream bucket.
You know, it's like you don't want a
human being that's thinking about how do
I feel about doing this.
>> You don't want that, right? Because
that's not useful because then that
person's not going to be useful. So
again, I think we're we're entering into
this territory. And I think this is what
is causing a lot of part of what's
causing a lot of the challenges in
modern dating is that women have become
much broader in the sense that, you
know, they still have network, they
still have community, but they've
learned how to compete with men. And I
think that largely we as men have not
adapted and figured out how to compete
with women. I think that we are terrible
at competing with women because women
compete far different. They compete,
they compete way differently than we do
as men. We as men, we compete through
competition, through competency. It's
like, I'm going to outwork you. I'm
going to be more competent than you. I'm
going to be more capable than you. I'm
going to figure out the systems and get
better at it than you.
>> And women have figured out how to do
that as well. But they also have this
whole other skill set of emotional
intelligence, of being able to create
network, of being able to social
socialize and along with that character
assassinate, right? Like and take you
out in ways that that we just don't you
didn't even see coming.
>> You didn't even see coming. And all of a
sudden, you're like, "Wait, why is Becky
from HR pulling me in and like
reprimanding me?" Like, "What the hell
just happened?" Uh, and so I think
that's very intimidating for some men.
And I think it's very confusing
>> because we've kind of been sold this
bill of goods that if you just
prioritize competency and capability,
>> then you should rise through the ladder
of culture and society and you should be
able to be successful with women. And I
think that that is really in jeopardy
right now. I think there's this big kind
of tug-of-war for whether or not that's
going to be true or not. And you still
have men that are outliers that that is
true. that because they're so
successful, because they're they have
high status and yada yada yada, that
that still works. But I think for the
average guy, that's becoming harder and harder.
harder.
>> Have you seen the new stats? You know,
hypergamy, the word hypergamy favorite y
of the the romantic pill.
>> Um I call the the red pill the romantic
pill now.
>> That's great. That's great. I like that.
>> The romantic pill cuz everyone that's in
the red pill is a romantic. Everybody,
every single guy that's in the red pill
is a romantic. Some have failed, some
are successful. Um but fundamentally
they want to relationships they want to
find and be loved by a woman. Yeah,
>> it's the romantic bill.
>> That's great. >> Um
>> Um
hypergamy. Uh the bottom two quintiles
uh of men in terms of earning and the
top quintile in terms of women for
earning have the female as the primary
bread winner in the household. Now
>> that's in the US.
>> Yeah. So uh the bottom 40% of guys who
earn are dating up socioeconomically and
the top 20% of women earners are dating
down socioeconomically. So that is
getting squeezed a lot. And how long
have I been [ __ ] screaming about this
tall girl problem thing where again
another great meme? Um if women are
socioeconomically successful soon enough
they're going to stand on the top of
their own competence hierarchy, look
across and find very few men. And the
men that are there have a wealth of
opportunity, so they're going to use and
discard women. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, so yeah, we we are at this
interesting tug of war, but I think
>> it's not really even a tug anymore. It's
like it's happened. It's happened and
it's happening.
>> We're we're fully in it.
>> Correct. Yeah. And we're just trying to
sort of pick up the pieces. And for
women, what it's felt like uh
objectively is a lot of gain. Lots of
gains. Right. Uh I've now got degrees.
there's more women getting like I think
it's creeping up into masters and
doctorate degrees now as well. So, it's
not just that they're getting into
undergrad. Um, more degrees, they earn
more than guys up to the age of 30, 31.
Now, that's continuing to creep up as
well. And you go, that just seems like a
boon. Now, there are prices that women
are going to pay. And those are going to
be ones that are much harder to quantify
quality of life. Eight out of 10 women
that don't have kids and breach their
reproductive window don't say that they
didn't intend to not have children. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, uh, or say that they didn't intend
to not have children. Sorry.
What this means is the prices that women
and like uh the the feminism problem or
the femininity problem opposed to the
masculinity problem uh are going to be
felt later further down the line and
they're going to be more subtle and
they're going to be much more
psychological. Um or at least much more
hidden I think. Uh but objectively
guys are already in it. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
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wisdom. Yeah, we're we're in it. I mean,
the the the decline of men is
staggering. You know, when you look at
the stats and the data of, you know,
there's less men going to college than
ever before. You by 2030, you're going
to have two women graduating with
degrees for every one man, right? And
when you look at the women that graduate
from college, they statistically want
men with college degrees. They want to
date men with college degrees, right?
So, we're we're creating a a population
of men that a lot of women don't that's
they say they don't necessarily want to
date on paper, right? So you have less
men going to college, you have less men
in the workforce. I mean, there's
there's a huge amount of men, something
like six or seven million American men
are not in the workforce right now. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you have this massive uh exodus from
the workforce. You have more young men
under 30 living at home than ever before.
before.
>> You have more young men not dating,
right? It's like I feel like Scott
Gallery right now just I can hear Scott
just like listing off the the stats,
right? It's like, you know, 40% of men
under the age of 30 haven't approached a
woman in the last year and haven't had
sex with a woman in the last year. And
so I I think that when you look socially
and economically, young men really are
in decline. And I think the problem with
that is that when we go to talk about
young men, men men's problems and how we
can alter society or create social
programs for men to actually support
them, it all hell breaks loose. You
know, it just it just turns into a kind
of um you know, missry fest. It's like
man hate just becomes very apparent when
you start to talk about men's problems
and men's issues. But
>> it feels like it's taking resources away
from some other more deserving group.
That's why it's a zero sum view of
empathy and resources.
>> Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that
hierarchies have just shifted, right?
And so there's the the power
distribution is not going towards men
anymore. And I think that that is very
hard for a lot of people to come to
terms with. I think it's also
detrimental for our society and our
culture. And I do think that young men
have I think they have a hard time. I
think that as a culture, we've forgotten
how hard it is to to take a young boy
and turn him into a man and to get him
through that period of going through
puberty, having testosterone, wanting to
basically like, you know, fight [ __ ]
feed, crash out entirely, uh, and and
get him into manhood in a functional
way. And so I think we we almost have
like a type of amnesia with how hard it
is to turn a young boy into a man. I
think it's I think it's very very
challenging. And so and then when we
look at the social programs for young
men uh and boys, they're few and far
between, right? So you have young boys
that don't have father figures at home.
You know, one in four kids in America
don't have a father figure in the
household. You you have young boys that
going to go into an education system
that is female dominated. So they're not
going to have role models at home, not
going to have role models in the school
system. If they go through a therapeutic
vein because they're having problems,
that's dominated by women as well. And
so there's a kind of vacancy. There's
like a male role model vacancy. And for
a lot of young boys, there's that what
they're looking for is a type of
transmission from men around how do I
get through this process? M
>> how do I go from being this boy or being
this adolescence into being somebody who
can regulate, who can deal with the
intensity of his anger, who can deal
with, you know, the fear of the
rejection of talking to a woman in a
coffee shop or at the grocery store.
>> And so I think that that absence is is
really crushing for a lot of young men.
And then I think when you couple that
with um
with the parenting style that we've gone
through in the last couple decades,
which is like the helicopter parent has
completely debilitated a lot of young
men. The the there's two simple things
that the parenting data that basically
like shows when it comes to raising a
healthy child, whether it's a boy or a
girl, is that you need high standards
and high support. You need those two
things. You need really good solid
standards of here's what I expect from
you. I want to help you develop. I want
you to develop competency in these
different areas. And then high support.
I'm also going to help you to do those
things. What a lot of young boys grow up
with is extremely high standards with
very little support. Right? It's like, I
expect you to get the high grades. I
expect you to be exceptional at hockey
or lacrosse or basketball, whatever it
is, but I'm not actually going to teach
you how to do those things. I'm not
going to support you to do that. M
>> or in the last couple decades, we've had
the inverse, right? Where it's been
like, "It's okay, honey. You got 10th
place. It's all right. No worries. No
standards, no expectations, no nothing."
And for that young man, he's like,
>> "Well, [ __ ] Is this it then? Am I just
supposed to, okay, I guess I'll just
play video games and jerk off watching
Pornhub, you know, like
>> nobody expects anything from me? And
culture is telling me that I'm the
problem, so I'm just going to check
out." So, I think that you have this
intersection of problems that are
creating a [ __ ] storm for young men.
>> What are some of the traits of an
>> Well, first I think you need to have the
ability to regulate your own nervous
system. So, you need to have some
level of competency over your own
emotional awareness. You need to have an
understanding of what's happening inside
of you. If you don't know or you're not
able to identify what's happening inside
of yourself emotionally when you're
angry, when you feel ashamed, when you
feel anxious, when you feel sad, when
you feel embarrassed, if you don't if
you can't differentiate between those
things or identify them and then be able
to regulate yourself through them so
that you don't lash out and get reactive
and get defensive all the time or, you
know, you you get rejected for a phone
number at the coffee shop or whatever
and you you dissolve into a puddle. of
like, "Oh my god, I'm such a piece of
shit." Which I understand. I've been
there. I actually have been there. You
know, I like was that guy when I was a
teenager. Uh rejection was brutal. But
if you if you aren't able to understand
what's happening inside of you and move
yourself through it, it's going to be
very very challenging to do that for
anybody else. So that's kind of like the
first place, the first step. Um, and
then secondly, I think you need to have
the capacity to draw out emotional
content. And this is a this is a skill
set that far few men learn. I think what
we learn as men is get the get the
content logistically. Get the logistical
content like what happened, when did it
happen, um what did it look like, you
know, like we get all those details, but
what we don't ask is what was that
actually like for you? you know, what
was it like for you when your boss was
pissed off or when you [ __ ] up the
presentation? What h what was that like
for you? What happened inside of you?
And so that's another skill set that I
think a lot of young men need is to be
able to draw out emotional content. Tell
me what that was like. What happened?
How did you feel in that moment, you
know, when when she said that, when he
did that? What was that like? And those
simple things are going to create a
connection, a bridge for the other
person to say, "Oh, this this person is
interested in how I'm feeling." And so I
think for a lot of men, just showing I
have interest in what's happening inside
of you
>> is also the next step. And then
>> being to respond and not react. A lot of
the times we personalize the [ __ ] out of
especially women's uh the women that
we're dating. Um but we we personalize
what other people are saying. And so you
might have your girlfriend or your wife
talking about something and you know
she's talking about how she was
disappointed in her mom or some argument
with with you and all of a sudden it's
like well did I do something wrong and
how could I have done that better and
what's wrong with me? And so a lot of
men collapse in to a type of
defensiveness or reactivity to go on the
attack to character assassinate to, you
know, sort of just defend themselves in
that moment. And so we need to be able
to regulate and then respond versus just
reacting from whatever emotion comes up
inside of us when somebody else is
talking. And sometimes that means that
we have to be able to hear
what somebody is saying to us and about
us without becoming defensive, without
becoming reactive.
>> How do you do that?
>> Your breath is a big part of it. Like I
think this is just a very simple thing
like your breath is a huge piece of
regulating your nervous system. And so,
you know, for a lot of guys that I work
with, when they there's this moment,
Victor Frankl has this beautiful phrase,
which is between stimulus and response,
there's a pause, and we have to be able
to feel that pause. So, for a lot of
guys, as soon as they hear hard content,
you know, it's like you forgot something
and your partner's upset and she's like,
"How could you have forgotten to do
that? I asked you. I texted you." And
all of a sudden, the shame and the guilt
and the, you know, the heaviness like,
"Fuck. Oh, [ __ ] I [ __ ] up." or like
the defensiveness that happens. Being
able to literally take some breaths so
that the emotional intensity and the
charge that has happened inside of you
can subside a little bit instead of
immediately reacting from that place.
What most of us do as men is immediately
react from that place.
>> So, we're reacting from the shame. We're
reacting from the anger. We're reacting
from the defensiveness and the
embarrassment. And so what I teach a lot
of men is just like take three breaths
before you respond. I know it sounds
super simple and super it's like so
simple that it sounds dumb, but if you
can just start to interrupt the pattern
of reacting immediately from an emotion,
you can create a new pathway of being
able to take some breaths so that you
can quote unquote downregulate your
system or at the very least you can get
some awareness of what is happening
inside of me. So take a breath,
understand what's happening inside of
yourself and then you can either choose
to set that aside or you can voice it,
right? It's like, "Oh, I hear you and I
feel really defensive, so I'm going to
pause, you know, or I get what you're
saying and you're right. I totally
forgot to do that. I'll take care of
it." So you you don't personalize what's
happening and you're able to actually
stay with your experience.
The mindfulness gap is what my
meditation teacher referred to it as.
Yes. Like space. Uh I certainly know the
periods in my life where I've had that
the most. There's a few instance that
were really really funny where somebody
um got very agitated. Like this guy in a
Nando I was in in the UK. I was with my
friends. I always use this as an
example. It's so funny. And this guy
sort of
>> always Nando
>> had him. I know. I know. Scum. Uh, I'm
very working class, which is why Nando
for me is a a huge treat. Um,
I walked past this table, he kicked off
at me because he thought that I got too
close. And this was like deep, deep,
deep meditation mode me. Like, this was
the peak monk mode, 3-hour morning
routine, like gratitude. This is when I
was doing, I think, 1,000 days sober and
500 days without caffeine at the same time.
time.
The alcohol thing is great. the caffing
thing's [ __ ] miserable and pointless.
Um, but was a a good lesson to learn.
Anyway, this guy kicks off and because
I've I don't know, he was obviously
having a bad day. Like, he was obviously
on the edge. He was having a bad day.
And I remember like watching this thing
unfold. And I just turned around and
said, "Oh."
And kept on walking. And he'd made this
big sort of explosion. Oh, let me give
you this. You're going to [ __ ] love
this. You got to Joe Hudson yet? Have I
got you into Joe?
>> Art of accomplishment guy. He stinks of
you. So he taught me this idea called
veagal authority. >> Uhhuh.
>> Uhhuh.
>> You already know what it means, right?
Like you're in a room, somebody's
nervous system is disregulated,
somebody's is regulated. Which way does
the rest of the room go? And which way
do you go? That guy there, I held the
veagal authority. Now, I'm not sure if
he was able to take my regulation and go
back to his family and be like, I don't
think I should have blown up that much.
That guy just walked near my table.
Yeah, maybe not. But
>> but the the the idea that I am so
regulated that not only can I keep
myself where I want to be while you are
doing something else,
>> but also I maybe have so much surplus
that you can kind of borrow from it.
Like my cup is so full that the saucer
that overflows around it can fill yours up.
up. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And um yeah, when I think about
emotional safety, that regulation piece
is a a huge part. I guess a lot of guys
will worry of fear.
How do I build emotional range without
losing my grounding or my strength or my
attractiveness, my ad uh admiration from
my partner and from people around me.
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>> Well, I think I think that that's when you
you
what I'm really talking about is a type
of emotional containment, but it's
containment not through suppression.
It's not by cutting yourself off from
what you feel. It's not about, you know,
beheading your emotions or or numbing
yourself out from them. It's actually by
gaining a mastery through deeply
understanding and feeling what you're
feeling in any given moment to the
degree that they do not control you. For
the average man, what happens is that
they feel something and they become
something. They feel anger and they
become angry. They feel shame and
they're shameful, right? And so the
emotion comes up and then they become
that emotion and then they respond from
that emotion. They react from that
emotion versus, oh, there's that
emotion. I I know that I'm feeling that
emotion and I can feel that emotion, but
I can still have enough space from that
emotion that I can still respond in a
grounded way. And
this this type of emotional containment,
this type of emotional regulation is
really what
when you look at people like Marcus
Aurelius, when you look at um really
great leaders, when you look at Aragon,
I did this video about, you know, the
masculinity of Aragorn from Lord of the
Rings, which is super [ __ ] nerdy, but
I'm kind of a nerd, so I thought I would
do it. It's it's becoming a a man who is
capable of dealing with the intensity
and the charge within himself so that he
can learn to deal with the intensity and
the charge of others. That is a gift,
right? That is a gift that we as men can
provide the world, can provide our
children, can provide our friends, can
provide our family, the women in our
life. And for a lot of women, that is
what they're saying when they say, "I
want safety. I want emotional
attunement." Now, it's not your job to
make all women safe. That's kind of
impossible. It's not your job to do
that. It's also not your job to, you
know, help the woman that you're dating
feel better all the time. That's people
pleasing and codependency and all that
other type of stuff. But what you can
bring is containment. And sometimes that
containment can look different ways. It
can be, you know, your partner, your
girlfriend, or your wife saying
something that's crossing a line that's
like a little bit of a jab or an edge
and you saying, "I didn't like that.
Don't do that again. I love you. I don't
like when you talk to me like that." And
it's it's not a threat. It's not angry.
You're not blowing up. Oh, why are you
[ __ ] do this to me all the time? Oh,
I hate when you talk to me like that.
It's just clear, grounded boundaries.
And but you need to have emotional
connection to be able to attune to the
information of oh that wasn't okay.
That pissed me off.
>> So good.
>> That made me feel embarrassed. That made
me feel shame. And so emotions are just
data. They're just data. And we as men,
the I think the men that become the real
leaders of the future, I think the men
that become really successful in the
future, whether it's with women or in
the business world, are going to be men
that are exceptionally emotionally
attuned, that are able to read the data
that's happening inside of them and
not be numbed out or completely disconnected,
disconnected,
but be able to understand that there's a
very real intensity inside of them. And
the interesting thing is that when you
look at something like the the um
neurology and the data around emotions
between men and women, it's it's
generally that women will feel more
emotions um more often and men will feel
singular emotions more intensely.
And so men generally will stay in an
emotion for a longer period of time and
they'll stay in an intensity of that
emotion. This is why you have guys that
are like, you know, they'll stay in
their depression for ages and ages and
ages, right? They'll stay in their
anxiety or their anger. They'll stay
angry and frustrated, you know, days on
end and they're holding grudges and
they're not talking to anybody for days
and they're cutting people off, they're
just in that intensity of that emotions.
So I think the more that we as men can
learn how to deal with the charge inside
of ourselves through the breath through
awareness of like what is actually
happening inside of me without saying
something's [ __ ] wrong with me cuz I
have emotions or you know I'm like it's
emotional competency. That's what it
really is. It's being able to have
emotional competency
>> and say like oh you know I I felt angry
when you said that. You know I didn't I
didn't like when you did that. that
wasn't okay with me or I really loved
when you, you know, did X, Y, and Z. And
that type of emotional attunement to
ourselves and then to others is like a
superpower for men. And
I think that for a lot of women, it's
it's really what they're asking for. And
I'm not saying that we as men should do
that to give them that. I think that we
should do that because it allows us a certain level of meaning and depth that
certain level of meaning and depth that I think most men are deeply craving, you
I think most men are deeply craving, you know, deeply craving. And how are you
know, deeply craving. And how are you supposed to walk through life
supposed to walk through life with a sense of purpose and meaning if
with a sense of purpose and meaning if you're disconnected from the data of
you're disconnected from the data of your own emotions? It's so hard. And we
your own emotions? It's so hard. And we need those things to set boundaries, to
need those things to set boundaries, to know when things are okay and not okay.
know when things are okay and not okay. We need those things for relationships
We need those things for relationships and trust and safety.
and trust and safety. >> But we also need those things for
>> But we also need those things for leadership. Like the the men that are
leadership. Like the the men that are going to be leaders of the future will
going to be leaders of the future will have an exceptional level of emotional
have an exceptional level of emotional literacy and they will have a very high
literacy and they will have a very high capacity to regulate their nervous
capacity to regulate their nervous system. When you look at today's culture
system. When you look at today's culture and society, people are [ __ ] their
and society, people are [ __ ] their nervous systems are [ __ ] And so who
nervous systems are [ __ ] And so who are people turning to? They're turning
are people turning to? They're turning to people who have said, "I'm able to
to people who have said, "I'm able to navigate the [ __ ] storm of the chaos of
navigate the [ __ ] storm of the chaos of our times. The chaos of our social media
our times. The chaos of our social media and our culture and the uncertainty of
and our culture and the uncertainty of whether AI is going to destroy us all
whether AI is going to destroy us all and climate's going to kill everything."
and climate's going to kill everything." And most people's nervous systems are so
And most people's nervous systems are so hijacked. And so if you're a man who's
hijacked. And so if you're a man who's able to regulate your nervous system in
able to regulate your nervous system in your relationship and in a work setting
your relationship and in a work setting in a genuine meaningful way without
in a genuine meaningful way without needing to numb yourself out constantly
needing to numb yourself out constantly and chronically through booze or weed or
and chronically through booze or weed or porn or whatever it is and you can do it
porn or whatever it is and you can do it in a genuine way that is aligned with
in a genuine way that is aligned with your values, you're going to be
your values, you're going to be unstoppable. You're going to be
unstoppable. You're going to be unstoppable because you will be
unstoppable because you will be signaling to women, I have done
signaling to women, I have done something that most men haven't done.
something that most men haven't done. Because most women know that for the
Because most women know that for the majority of men, it's extremely hard to
majority of men, it's extremely hard to put on the scuba diving mask and go
put on the scuba diving mask and go inside and confront the dragon within,
inside and confront the dragon within, the beast inside of ourselves. Most
the beast inside of ourselves. Most women know that that's something that we
women know that that's something that we as men are afraid of. And so women are
as men are afraid of. And so women are largely in our culture, I think, saying,
largely in our culture, I think, saying, "I really am craving a man that has met
"I really am craving a man that has met himself, that's confronted himself,
himself, that's confronted himself, that's met his own demons and his own
that's met his own demons and his own darkness and knows his violence and
darkness and knows his violence and knows what makes him dangerous." That
knows what makes him dangerous." That is, I think, what men are really being
is, I think, what men are really being asked to do. And I feel bad for a lot of
asked to do. And I feel bad for a lot of the young men because so many of them
the young men because so many of them are either finding the sort of like
are either finding the sort of like false gods of masculinity or there's
false gods of masculinity or there's just a vacancy entirely,
just a vacancy entirely, >> you know, there's just a vacancy.
>> you know, there's just a vacancy. >> The choice is between extreme and void.
>> The choice is between extreme and void. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you're going to take extreme
>> Yeah. And you're going to take extreme every single time.
every single time. >> Yeah. because it's better to be uh given
>> Yeah. because it's better to be uh given some advice that sounds right but may
some advice that sounds right but may not be than no advice at all because
not be than no advice at all because that sounds like that feels like being
that sounds like that feels like being lost.
lost. >> It's it's my biggest problem with
>> It's it's my biggest problem with progressive liberal
progressive liberal um talking points around masculinity and
um talking points around masculinity and men is that there's there's no target.
men is that there's there's no target. There's no aim. It's a it's a continuous
There's no aim. It's a it's a continuous laundry list of the things that you
laundry list of the things that you should not do. So there's no actual aim
should not do. So there's no actual aim or definition. There's there's no um
or definition. There's there's no um trajectory that you can point yourself
trajectory that you can point yourself towards and say I want to become that. I
towards and say I want to become that. I want to move in that direction. That is
want to move in that direction. That is something that I can ascend towards.
something that I can ascend towards. >> The uh veagal decapitation that you were
>> The uh veagal decapitation that you were talking about that like you know person
talking about that like you know person who only lives above the neck.
who only lives above the neck. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um I'm going to keep going. I've had my
>> Um I'm going to keep going. I've had my tonic today dude. Yeah, I'm going to
tonic today dude. Yeah, I'm going to keep
keep >> I'm going to start I'm going to start
>> I'm going to start I'm going to start taking those.
taking those. >> I'm going to keep naming [ __ ] that you
>> I'm going to keep naming [ __ ] that you came up with. Um Hey, do you want one
came up with. Um Hey, do you want one for your the turning or whatever it was?
for your the turning or whatever it was? The narrow path the turning thing.
The narrow path the turning thing. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Manopause.
>> Manopause. >> Oh, manopause. That's good.
>> Oh, manopause. That's good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Works on many levels.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Works on many levels. >> That's true.
>> That's true. >> Um
>> Um the thing that comes to mind and what
the thing that comes to mind and what I'm particularly fascinated about is
I'm particularly fascinated about is almost objection handling uh some of the
almost objection handling uh some of the stuff that comes up that will come up
stuff that comes up that will come up for guys that I've seen Yeah. online a
for guys that I've seen Yeah. online a lot. Um I think one of the first
lot. Um I think one of the first objections earlier on is well that toxic
objections earlier on is well that toxic fuel has helped me to be successful.
fuel has helped me to be successful. Also I turned that toxic I alchemized
Also I turned that toxic I alchemized that bad thing into something good. Is
that bad thing into something good. Is that not something I should be proud of?
that not something I should be proud of? Um another element might be in order for
Um another element might be in order for me to delve into this I feel like my
me to delve into this I feel like my real world performance is going to dip
real world performance is going to dip and it very well may do. Uh Tiger Woods
and it very well may do. Uh Tiger Woods had this issue with his swing that he
had this issue with his swing that he developed as a young golfer that he
developed as a young golfer that he needed to purposefully go back and fix.
needed to purposefully go back and fix. So he needed to adjust his hand
So he needed to adjust his hand position, adjust his back swing because
position, adjust his back swing because there was there's too many variables in
there was there's too many variables in that. Why you grinning?
that. Why you grinning? >> You said Tiger WS had a problem that was
>> You said Tiger WS had a problem that was like with Swedish bikini models.
like with Swedish bikini models. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had many problems.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had many problems. This is before that. This is before
This is before that. This is before that. This was in the confines of his
that. This was in the confines of his sport. Um he had to uh basically unlearn
sport. Um he had to uh basically unlearn which is 100 times harder than learning.
which is 100 times harder than learning. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Uh he had to unlearn and then relearn in
>> Uh he had to unlearn and then relearn in order to get to the next level. But that
order to get to the next level. But that required a false peak. He got to as good
required a false peak. He got to as good as he was going to be with this. He had
as he was going to be with this. He had to go back and then come back up. So I
to go back and then come back up. So I think even if you do go well look you
think even if you do go well look you might real world effectiveness might be
might real world effectiveness might be reduced if you crack yourself open in
reduced if you crack yourself open in this sort of a way
this sort of a way >> for a period of time. Yes.
>> for a period of time. Yes. >> Correct. Yeah. And in my experience
>> Correct. Yeah. And in my experience that's true. That's true. I just need to
that's true. That's true. I just need to put it out there. I know that you said
put it out there. I know that you said you know you can show up in an
you know you can show up in an openhearted way in a blah blah blah.
openhearted way in a blah blah blah. >> The first couple of years of trying to
>> The first couple of years of trying to feel feelings [ __ ] blow. Dude, I I'm
feel feelings [ __ ] blow. Dude, I I'm just going to be upfront about it.
just going to be upfront about it. >> I get it. I get it. But another one of
>> I get it. I get it. But another one of the objections is uh the world to me
the objections is uh the world to me seems to be split largely into two
seems to be split largely into two groups. Uh people who know that they
groups. Uh people who know that they should be feeling emotions and either
should be feeling emotions and either are or are not and people who just don't
are or are not and people who just don't feel emotions that deeply or are so good
feel emotions that deeply or are so good at repressing them that functionally
at repressing them that functionally it's the same thing.
it's the same thing. >> And these two groups constantly argue
>> And these two groups constantly argue between each other. Um, the second
between each other. Um, the second group, the group that doesn't
group, the group that doesn't necessarily feel emotions quite so
necessarily feel emotions quite so deeply, uh, the Tim Kennedys of the
deeply, uh, the Tim Kennedys of the world for instance, right? I actually
world for instance, right? I actually think that David Gogggins is a bad
think that David Gogggins is a bad example of this because I think he does
example of this because I think he does feel things very deeply, which is what's
feel things very deeply, which is what's caused him to go and do something so
caused him to go and do something so extreme as a a mechanism for him to be
extreme as a a mechanism for him to be able to alchemize it.
able to alchemize it. >> Um, Tim Kendi would be an example of
>> Um, Tim Kendi would be an example of somebody who,
somebody who, >> at least in my experience, slightly less
>> at least in my experience, slightly less so. If you're a a sniper, Green Beret,
so. If you're a a sniper, Green Beret, all that stuff, um, that tends to not be
all that stuff, um, that tends to not be your archetype. um for them when they
your archetype. um for them when they start to talk about well the opening up
start to talk about well the opening up of emotions I don't even know what
of emotions I don't even know what you're talking about tapping into inner
you're talking about tapping into inner child wounds doing the shadow work
child wounds doing the shadow work alchemy things falling apart the phoenix
alchemy things falling apart the phoenix all this stuff I just I it doesn't
all this stuff I just I it doesn't resonate that much with me and also on
resonate that much with me and also on the female side of this are the sort of
the female side of this are the sort of women who would see a man opening up in
women who would see a man opening up in that way and think less of him who would
that way and think less of him who would see a man that wants to try and have a
see a man that wants to try and have a deeply connected heartfelt emotionally
