The discussion highlights the parallels between the evolution of ETFs and the current development of the crypto space, emphasizing the shared journey towards greater market transparency, resilience, and accessibility, and the crucial role of regulation in fostering investor confidence and innovation.
Mind Map
Нажмите, чтобы развернуть
Нажмите, чтобы открыть полную интерактивную карту
hello Samara thank you so much for
joining us very lucky to have Samara
today um why don't you tell us a little
bit about your journey in finance and
your role as CIO of ETF and index
investing at Black Rock sure and uh
thank you so much for having me it's
great to be here and to see a lot of you
who I know um I will say given my 30ish
uh year career in markets and finance
I'm not I'm still trying to digest the
fact that all 30 years has been 1.0 and
we're only now entering
2.0 um but uh but I'll I'll sit with
that for a little bit um I really think
of the uh the kind of through line
throughout my career as having a huge
passion for modernizing markets and
making them more EX accessible so when I
uh was at University I was a dual major
in financial engineering but also in
theater all of my work experience was in
theater not onstage but like backstage
sort of stuff but I had no idea when I
started working really the difference
between different Financial firms but I
knew I wanted to see what my financial
engineering major could do in the real
world and I was really attracted at that
time to the Black Rock story which was
at that time a very small I I was
employee number one 134 so this was a
small fixed income portfolio management
firm created by a bunch of saleside
structurers and Engineers that wanted to
make the bond market and risk management
in the bond market accessible to more
people and I liked that story and so I
went to work there um I actually was
gone from Black Rock for about 18 years
because I went to business school and
then I went to Goldman Sachs and spent
that part of my career uh in the
derivatives market and and kind of the
the last turning point I would say that
that brings me here was the global
financial crisis in 2008 so I was
sitting in the kind of Heart of uh the
the derivatives market and specifically
in the postcrisis
response um the uh uh um interest rate
Market which was where I had spent most
of my career really felt a lot of the
the kind of post crisis reforms that
were unfolding in the markets and as
much as you know as a career at that
point derivatives professional I had and
still do have total conviction that
derivatives were not the root cause of
the financial crisis I also had
conviction that the OTC markets could be
made much more transparent resilient and
accessible and I wanted the next part of
my career to be doing that that led me
to doing a lot of Market structure
strategy work at Goldman and then
rejoining Black Rock for these things
they told told me were called ETFs but
when Black Rock reached out to me like I
had to Google what an ETF was CU in 2014
in the bond market like nobody knew what
an ETF was and that tells you the the
kind of trajectory of bond ETFs and ETFs
in general that now you can't have a
credible conversation in the bond market
without knowing what an ETF is and I
think there's probably a a number of
analogues here to to the story of crypto
but really I became convinced over the
course of conversation with black rock
that exchange traded products were
actually a disruptive technology that
was going to bring more access um and
and transparency to markets and so I
came to Black Rock and and you know uh
uh came into the seat that I that I am
now which is Chief investment officer of
ETFs wow thank you yeah certainly a lot
of parallels between what you've
experienced and what we're seeing now in
crypto um if you think about crypto and
traditional Finance you know what do you
think each industry does well and what
do you think they have to learn from
each other so I H knew you were going to
ask me this question and I have to say
I'm pretty sure you answered it as well
or better than I will in your keynote
because this is kind of exactly what you
talked about so I'm glad I had the
opportunity to to listen to it but I'll
make a couple of additional um comments
I think the Arc of Mo you know Market modernization
modernization
like really for Millennia and I love
getting really nerdy about Market's
history so I could go deep on that but
you know I won't you're welcome but um
has been this kind of inexurable drive
towards better
transparency resilience and access and so
so
unquestionably if blockchain technology
was you know uh if we could today
whiteboard how we would design a modern
Financial system like blockchain
technology has huge promise across all
three of those Dimensions now in terms
of you know Legacy finance and and trapi
I think that things that are the most
important and relevant today which you
know you also spoke to in your keynote
one in particular is of course
regulation I'm thrilled you have an
incredible lineup of speakers who can
bring a lot of expertise around the path
forward for regulation but I think one
of the key uh takeaways here for this
group especially like given all the
atmospherics around deregulation in the
world right now is that regulation is
actually going to be really important
for crypto particularly in the United
States to increase confidence and to
create the balance that historically us
markets have gotten right I would say
the last five years have been a bit of a
you know departure from this with
respect to crypto but that balance
between um
really sound and smart guard rails and
Innovation which you know brings people
to commit capital and want to
participate in the space um then the
last point I want to make is actually on
guard rails and this is where I think
there are particularly a number of
lessons and best practices uh to be
shared and and I know we'll we'll
probably talk a little bit more around uh
uh
247 but uh you know trafi markets have
been tested in lots of different uh
scenarios and have come up with many
mechanisms around you know uh uh circuit
breakers and kill switches and you know
uh interoperability the self-help that
exchanges provide to each other to
navigate those moments of Crisis and you
know think of as high velocity markets
and I think learnings there will be very
important for crypto going
forward maybe we can look a little more
specifically at tokenization and the
rise of ETFs what are the sort of
parallels that you would see in those
domains so um I think the uh I mean
look the crypto ETP story and and I'll
pause for any of you who who don't know
the kind of minua here exchange traded
product is like the Uber category I know
everybody talks about uh exchange traded
funds but actually the crypto etps are
exchange traded products they're not
funds if we refer to them as uh ETFs we
can't uh use that conversation or
activated on social media so we try to
be very careful saying ETP but really um
it's it's just a a bigger category when
we were first approached about uh Bitcoin
Bitcoin
ETP it was actually and it was you know
years before uh uh we and and kind of
early in black rocks digital assets
Journey um we actually had to think
about like why do you need the ETP
wrapper for crypto and this gets back to
your earlier question around what are
the benefits of kind of the the Trad
five Financial system and you know what
are the best practices that that can be
shared but um but if I think about like
what you know Bitcoin is transparent I
you know the first time I B bought
Bitcoin I timed myself and I was able to
do it inside of two minutes on my mobile
phone so that's kind of the definition
of you know accessible
um and and so these things that really
like turbocharged us to come into work
every day like bringing access to high
yield bonds where you needed
institutional coverage and a dealer in
order to literally buy a bond like we
get excited all day about providing an
ETF so you can do that on your phone but
we didn't quite get the value prop of
the Bitcoin ETP wrapper and really what
we learned were a few things that um
first of all it wasn't you know
particular ularly things like uh you
know uh uh transparency liquidity
understanding depth of liquidity those
weren't as uh accessible particularly to
um institutional investors uh custody
was complex uh and lastly as investors
started to think about how they might
allocate to Bitcoin in the context of
their overall portfolio they wanted a
mechanism to view whole portfolio risk
and this living into e EOS systems you
know first of all it's very hard to go
back and forth unless you're living your
life on chain and second of all it's
hard to kind of look at holistic uh risk
management so that was kind of the
bridge where we actually took a crypto
asset and brought it you know into a a
trafi r moved forward that way and to
your question on you know the trajectory
of tokenization and you spoke to this um
like incredibly well in your keynote I
think um there are lots of parts of
markets that work well
collateral and the cash kind of
ecosystem uh particularly in this you
know era of uh Rising rates and you know
increased Capital requirements for banks
that part of the ecosystem needs to be
able to move um with more agility and
less friction so tokenizing cash and
collateral like assets has a huge
potentially systemic benefit that kind
of goes the other way way you're taking
you know a uh um a trafi uh asset or in
the case of a treasury fund you know
sophisticated treasury management
chain one of the things that we talk
about repeatedly at Ando is why we're
not focused on tokenizing illiquid
assets right and our belief that
tokenization does not bring liquidity um
you know how do you think about
similarly what an ETF does with respect
to changing the liquidity profile of an
asset yeah it's such a great question
and we've talked about this there's such
a parallel and I hope that um one of the
things you know you take from this
conversation if if anything is is that
that you know tokenizing something or
you know putting it in an ETP wrapper
does not magically create volume and
liquidity like that's a mythology a
market needs like a certain level of um
uh uh demand
participation uh infrastructure in order
to actually unlock the benefits of that
technology whether that technology is an
ETP wrapper or that's tokenization now
at that point we can measurably show
that markets with etps in them um
generally have more uh um transparency
price formation resilience than markets
without them and I think the same will
absolutely be true for
tokenization um that markets that
support uh tokenization as a wrapper for
assets gives an in investors another
tool that will be um good for that
Market's kind of resilience and quality
um but it still has to be introduced at
kind of the appropriate time of of
Market development
there's a lot of excitement in crypto
about what the new Administration is
going to do for the space hopefully
bringing regulatory Clarity do you think
that excitement is overblown you know
how do you think about uh you know how
the digital asset space will benefit
from or react to the sort of changing
Administration um so I'm excited and
optimistic um I think it's really hard
and I one of the observations I have
because I kind of live in the middle I'm
much more I I would say kind of Trad
five fluent than I am crypto fluent but
I can tell you categorically from the
time I've spent kind of bringing people
together on both sides of that um to you
know in particular to to make uh etps
work um is there are very few people
that are bilingual in both there are ton
of smart crypto people that know they
need a better path forward from a
regulatory and policy perspective but
they're not quite sure what to ask for
and there's a lot of people who
understand kind of current systems of of
Regulation that don't understand crypto
and so actually creating the clarity of
um what that path looks for I think is a
more challenging task than um many May
realize you guys obviously get it you're
going to spend a fair amount of time
here today hearing from some of I people
who I think the best thinkers in this
space but I think it's really important
and and I hope I'm the um chair of the
uh uh we call it the digital assets Task
Force at cfma which is uh securi uh
industry Association it's really
important that we spend the time so to
come up with an appropriately
interoperable regime and you know you
said it again a number of times in your
keynote I think this is a pivotal time
in markets and there's a number of paths
that we could go down and there is a
path where you develop a crypto
ecosystem that works pretty well in
parallel to the trafi ecosystem that's
not what's best for investors what's
best for investors but but it may be
sometimes and you have to really think
big because what I've seen in the past
is that you know we see this a lot with
exchanges in in Europe for example you
get very focused on I want a bigger
share of
my piie and I'm going to focus on that
at the expense of creating a bigger pie
this is the moment to think about a
bigger piie um you know versus uh how
you might compete in a crypto only world
but I think that there's you know a lot
of uh work that has to be done to
actually articulate how that works yeah
I could not agree more I think we're
still in such early Innings of
tokenization that you know we should
really all have a very collaborative
mindset um and yeah it's been great to
work together on sort of ble and and
related initiatives um cool well I think
that's all the time we have for now but
thank you so much for uh for joining us
Нажмите на любой текст или временную метку, чтобы перейти к этому моменту видео
Поделиться:
Большинство транскрипций готово менее чем за 5 секунд
Копировать одним кликом125+ языковПоиск по текстуПерейти к временным меткам
Вставьте ссылку на YouTube
Введите ссылку на любое YouTube-видео, чтобы получить полную транскрипцию
Форма извлечения транскрипции
Большинство транскрипций готово менее чем за 5 секунд
Установите расширение для Chrome
Получайте транскрипции прямо на YouTube, не переходя на другие сайты. Установите наше расширение и открывайте текст любого видео в один клик — прямо на странице просмотра.
