Транскрипция YouTube:
Blerim Skoro - CIA & FBI Asset / Al-Qaeda Infiltrator | SRS #198

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We're going to come to the points how I

was offered from ISIS to become leader

of ISIS. So September 11, I'm in a cell

with one of the terrorists. The first

flight hit, he jumps on the bottom band

and happy. This is from my leader. Now

I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a

prison or not. I see two guys coming

down and they pull the gun, shot me four

time, not once. They taught you how to

make bombs. Absolutely. kind of

Blair Skoro, welcome to the show. Thank

you very much. Honor to be in your show.

Honor to have you. Thank you, man.

You've got a hell of a life story

growing up in Kosovo, coming in, being

recruited by the CIA as an asset,

infiltrating al-Qaeda, an assassination

attempt. I mean, this is going to be a

really good interview. Really good

interview. Yes, it is going to be good.

And your story is so interesting.

They're doing a documentary about you.

Yes. When's that coming out? Hopefully,

we're planning soon. I don't have too

much control over that. It's people

involved. So, but it's going to come

soon. Do you know where it's going to

go?

Uh, we are guest in uh May 21st to May

26 in California for 6 days and after

that I will find out what's going to be

the next step. But I am in California in

Hollywood uh from May 21st to May 26th.

Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank

you. Thank you. Well, everybody starts

off with a introduction here.

So, here we go. Blurham Skoro, Kosovan,

Albanian immigrant and former Yugoslav

army soldier who deserted to escape

ethnic persecution during the Kosovo

War. turned to crime to save her family

from genocide, smuggling drugs to fund

their escape from Kosovo, only to face

an 8-year prison sentence in 2000. Then

became a CIA asset who infiltrated

al-Qaeda after 9/11, all for a chance to

reunite with your American-born wife and

daughters. You survived an assassination

attempt in 2010 while serving as a CIA

informant, a husband, and a father who

won a landmark immigration case in 2022.

And now you drive a cab in New York

City. Your story is the subject of a new

documentary called The Accidental Spy,

which hopefully comes out in May. So,

couple things to uh knock out here real

quick. We have a I have a Patreon

account. Yes. and we've grown quite the

community there. We actually we just we

just took all their names. We're we're

building a new studio. It's about three

and a half times the size of this. We

took all 28,000 people who have ever

been a Patreon member and supported us

and uh we just put that on the wall

inside and the whole studio will be

built around it. But one of the things I

do is I offer them uh the opportunity to

ask each and every guest a question. A

question, excuse me. So this is from Tin

Dog. Do you consider yourself a patriot

of the US or a subversive because of the

betrayal? Where is your head at today? I

am 100% American patriot.

I thought you would say that. Thought

you would say that. And I'm proud to be

that. Good. Good. Well, we're proud to

have you. We're proud to have you. So,

quick answer, but

um and then

lastly, you watch the show, so you know,

everybody gets a gift. Thank you very

much. I appreciate it. Vigilance Elite

Gummy Bears. Yes. Legal in all 50

states. There you go. But, um this is

going to be a heavy interview and uh I

hope I hope we go down some rabbit

holes. I mean, just just since you've

been here, you brought up the fact that

uh something about Uranian coming out of

Russia. I definitely want to dive into

that and um and some of your outlook on

Syria that we just discussed off camera.

So, but let's start with life in Kosovo.

So, you're born in 1971 in Kosovo during

a time of ethnic tension under Yugoslav

rule.

was obligatory service in Yugoslav

army. What's was the worst war ever

existed in Balkans? I know you've been

seeing a lot and a lot of the viewers

and a lot of the guest but I saw also

very bad and a lot I was in a group with

one of the most dangerous

criminal Rajnatovich known aka Archon.

Wow. And I see I witnesses with my own

eyes behaving killing rape you name it

all of it. And I survived. How how young

were you when you started witnessing

those things? I tell you my 20 years

birthday was in the military.

So I started 19 years old.

So you started seeing beheadings, rapes,

all these kind of things as a 19y old

kid. As a as a 20-year-old kid. What was

the first time you saw a beheading? I

didn't believe it. First I thought it's

like uh like something you watch in the

movie. I saw woman getting raped from

the those uh paramilitary groups of

archon and there was a creations. I was

in the Yugoslav army and uh to me was I

didn't believe because when we uh called

for duty we called for duty to serve the

country against enemy outside not inside

of the own people. So Croats that time

when I was serving it was still

Yugoslavia which I start in I was uh I

started my service in March 20 1991 and

I was you know serving be even that time

Albanians from Kosovo we had no rights

we was considered like secondass

citizens because history of ourself it's

Alb Kosovo used to be always part of the

Albania because the communism dictator

it broke up and the Yugos

took over my country. But the history

it's always there. It's a black and

white. We cannot change it. Some people

may like, some people don't like, but

Koso was part of the Albania. So, we

start this uh uprise, you know, to be

separated from Yugoslavia, but we

couldn't do it. We always had a lot of

issues and stuff and uh we couldn't do

it. Then I was called in March

20 1991 and I start I finished 3 months

of uh training uh which is in the

beginning uh it was 8 weeks if I don't

make mistake and they start war in

Slovenia. I was in a training camp in

one of the cities of uh Yugoslavia city

called Shabbat. It's very close to the

Croatian border. That's what was uh I

was I start my uh uh military training

for war. That's a little different than

regular training. That's how I came out

to uh see the one of the worst criminal

Rajnatovich Arkan and there was

volunteers. I was regular military and

we start those training and stuff and uh

one

time I never talked in my life. CIA knew

at this part but uh my family of course

knows when we was in the training you

have some pictures we can demonstrate if

you want later in the camp it's a

pictures in the camp I was order it was

uh stolen uh weapons in that camp from

the uh uh those volunteers and when we

say volunteers it's a two different

groups I was in regular military and

there was those chatnik volunteers those

they're butchering people, woman, raping

those with a group of Rajnetto varan.

And uh since the military officers saw

me like I was little kind of skilled

soldier, they put me to be security not

to allowed nobody to move in a base and

group of six or seven of them they tried

to sneak in and I tell them you cannot

go in stop and they didn't want to stop.

And then I second time because that's

how was uh our rules. You ask them one

time to stop. If they don't stop then

second time you pull the gun, you put

the bullet in the chamber and you're

ready to shoot. And they don't want to

stop. That's first time in my life I

shoot in a people. That was kidding. Uh

June June or July of uh

1991 and I was age 20. I never talked in

the no media this part of the story.

First time in my life. But when I said I

didn't talk, CIA knew what everything.

So when you come to I did a polygraph

test to the CIA, but we're not going to

change the subject where it's beginning

and uh so you you shot in a group of six

or seven uh volunteers of the Chattnik,

the worst chat. You have the picture. I

did send it to you guys the picture. I

shot in them with a AK-47 like nothing

like first time in my life shooting to

the people was that in age 20. Did you

kill them? Uh I cannot say if I killed

but they don't want to say it but I know

everybody was laying down in the ground.

Nobody was moving but I pulled the

trigger and I know I'm a sharp shooter.

I don't I don't miss easy. I can I'm

very good in a shooting. So maybe one of

them went down but definitely I did shot

in a group of them and then that's how I

become like a very honor to the military

Yugoslav military like uh you know they

I create a trust. Mhm. And uh then we

still continue in a training camp in a

city Shabbat exact I will uh you didn't

go to make sure they were dead or

anything? No, I cannot. You're not

allowed because the officers come and

escort me right away and they took them

out and we're not allowed. You know,

it's a strict rules. If you shoot, then

they have to escort you uh keep you in a

safe place for a couple of days. And I

was given a pistol extra from the my one

of the uh officers uh in case he said if

you get problem with one gun, you have a

extra spare gun. So he kind of liked me

and he gave me his personal gun and I

kept for couple of weeks or a month.

Wow. Did that bother you at age 20 to to

potentially kill? Honestly, I felt very

great because I knew what I was shooting

in Serbians and we consider them enemy

of my country, enemy of my people. And

in my for example, I didn't talk too

much uh from all these 35 years about

this. I left because you know sometimes

legacy it's good to leave in the end of

the story of your life but my family

knows very well the story my kids know

very well and it's a 100% true and I

communicate after 35 years with officers

who helped me 35 years ago I

communicated just recently couple of

months ago no kidding they still

remember they are retired uh in a

Yugoslav former Yugoslav military and

they said We was proud you what you did

that time. And what did you call them?

Did you call them captains? Uh, no. It's

a It was a Yugoslav officer, Captain

First Class. It was a regular officers

in Yugoslav military. So that that

that's Serbians Cetnik. Cetnik. So when

I shot, I shot in the Cetnik. So this is

was Yugoslav regular Yugoslav military.

So it's little too different. My officer

didn't like them because he knew they

are criminals. So he liked us. So he

liked the regular military, but he

didn't like the volunteers. Wow. Because

volunteers is the one who commit the

genocide. Wow. Yeah. And what about the

beheadings and the rapes? Who who who

did you witness? I witnessed the those

reser those volunteers chatnik did to

the cros. So I witnessed a woman got I

know a one part for example it was a

woman didn't have a 12 years child kids

she had a baby it was a 9 month or 10

month old they killed the baby in front

of me and the rest of the soldiers and

they raped the lady and then they killed

the lady too. So I witnessed that. It

was somewhere in August of 1991. I was

present myself. And then there was

another story. A a former Yugoslav

military guy finished his service and he

came to visit his family in city

Vukawar. I was one of the most dangerous

wars in the city Vukawir. So he came in

that uh to visit his family because he

finished his service. When they found

out he came over there, they killed his

father and they killed the former

soldier who served in Yugoslav military

and they uh shot him from the behind.

They execute him. They kill his father

first and then execute him. I witnessed

that too. And then another part this

Chetnik uh you have the pictures. They

throw hand grenades. They put a woman

and kids in one of the basement. And I

remember family last name Chutura. I

helped them. They throw hand grenades in

the basement and me and uh one of my

officers is originally from Bosnia,

Bosnia, but it was regular military. He

said it was around 200 a.m. He said,

"Let's go. We hear the noise. They held

asking for help." We went in a basement.

what we saw in that basement all murder

killed woman and kids and I I went in

and it was a little slippery and I said

to the officer you have any match or

anything because it's slippery and my

foot was inside of the baby's body right

inside at age 20

and there was a old lady over there

calling for help in a Croatian uh pomog

pomogi and I went and took the lady. She

was all butchered from hang grenades and

I took her out less than 10 15 minutes

she passed away in my hand. I tried to

help her and then after

like start seeing all this then you get

used to it's a war you know. Of course

you young in a age but when you see all

this thing then it becomes like it's a

normal you know you in a war war you

have to do you have to defend yourself

protect yourself you not to get killed

and we did the best for me for example

we never

uh shoot innocent civilians even I was

more prot I was more able dreaming to

help crotz because we are more close

with Kra than Serbs. Serbs is Cthnik who

are ally with Russia and we consider

always enemy. So the Ser the Serbs and

the Cetnik are the are the same the same

are the same. Yes. Chetnik are the the

base of them the more fanatics like we

have Islamic radical al-Qaeda and stuff.

So Chetnik are in Serbians like that.

Okay. So if we compare with al-Qaeda so

Chetnik are like al-Qaeda and they were

doing this to your people not not to my

people to cross then in after a little

while when they start war in Kosovo they

was doing to my people but first this is

was 1991 and in to my people was 96 97

98 99 so in '91 I was in a Yugoslav

military. Jeez how common was this?

Look, it was not unusual like from my

generation

like even when I give a interview before

in like short interview in English one

of the newspaper I see people who I grew

up they don't know me much because we

was young 15 16 years and I don't talk

about stories like that it's not normal

for me to talk you know because like one

time I had nightmares I couldn't sleep

for a little while because when I are

talking about past what I saw you had

the you have a trouble sleeping you know

and I never want my kids to know this

kind of stories because I wanted my kids

to grow up to love people not to hate

because if you tell your child what

you've been through then they're going

to uh have a bad feeling thinking look

the my father what he went through you

know I want to hate those people too so

I don't want to give uh my kids uh idea

to hate anybody. I wanted my kids they

are born and raised in US. I want to be

free not to be having hate in their mind

because when you start having hate you

have no space to love people. So I

wanted to be educated extremely free and

good not to have ideas of the wars and

murders and death. So I want to be very

calm and educated and civilized. Wow.

There's not a lot of people that think

like that. No, that's pretty big of you.

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How did you get into the military? Was

it voluntary or did they was it somewhat

of a draft? No, it was obligatory

military that time when I was in

Yugoslavia. You must serve. It was no

choice because I couldn't have no

passport. I couldn't leave the country.

So was a complete dictator. You know you

must between age 18 and 20 at age 18 you

have to go in recruiting center for four

or five days. So if you uh capable to

serve. So I was in recruiting center I

was 18 years old and then uh at age 19

they sent me the letter I have to serve

the country and I took that responsibly

then I went and served the country. I

thought you know I'm serving a normal

Yugoslavian country. It's not like uh

I'm going to be part of the uh

committing genocide. It was a clear

genocide. Nothing uh it's no secrets.

It's I passed that uh situation. It's I

was there until October 13 when uh

complete Croatian city Vauovar

collapsed. And I say it I repeat it

again like I grew up with the people

they didn't even believe when they hear

a little bit the story they said no it's

not that but trust me I passed very

ruthless war look I've been in

Afghanistan I've been in a conscious

Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Jordan

and all these countries I I saw the wars

I saw what al-Qaeda did but uh this war

was also dangerous too. Wow. Wow. And

how long were you involved in that?

Until October 13, 1991. From March 1991

until October 13. [ __ ] So around almost

8 9 months. And who was committing the

genocide? Serves Chetnik. Were you guys

committing? My me personally not. No.

But group in my side. Yes. Yes.

Absolutely. How was the woman being

raped? How did that happen? It's very

bad. I saw I had to tell you this. I

remember one picture I saw like today. I

never forget that young maybe 35 years

old one that took that

child I couldn't do much you know

because look I thought many time if I

turn my gun to everybody and kill all

this but the problem was family because

if he was doing that to Serbs and Cetnik

they was going to execute my family

because that's how they used to do to

Albanians if Albanian guy shot the

Serbian or Cetnik then they was going to

kill the family. So then I was woring my

family. It's not the me to uh get

killed. I always thought I was like

since I grew up I grew up no fear like

uh I know one day I'm going to die. I

mean weren't they trying to kill you

anyways?

They try. They try. It was a time they

said look we're going to crucify him.

When I shot those group, there was

rumors, oh, we're gonna butcher him.

We're gonna uh make a cross in his body.

Those uh four S's, you know, Chattnik,

they have a four S's, cross and four

S's. Because they knew it. I was Muslim

born. So, they was you are sending me

threats through the soldiers and stuff.

But look, Sean, I'll be very honest. I

was ready to die when I started that

military. I said regardless if I die

today or after 50 years one day I'm

gonna die. So I had no kids I was not

married I was young. So the age is you

know the most dangerous age is you don't

fear nothing you know not everybody I'm

telling you not you have a kids like I

can tell you example I have a a boy 12

years old if you see him he's a big

giant boy but he will not kill kakaroas.

He's so like polite and nice. He was

said, "Daddy, no, don't kill that." You

know, but us was different because we

had that hate between us and Serbians.

So, we grew up, my grandfather was

executed in a communist country. My

mother's father, he was executed in

1940. So, and we grew up, you know,

having that hate. So, if I knew it how

my grandfather were executed. So now

automatically my parents educate me you

know look we we live here but those are

our enemy you know my grandfather was

killed so now we cannot trust them so I

was very educated and uh uh trained to

not to trust them so to be always

prepared you know if you have a uh ever

to come cross you have to defend

yourself or you're going to get killed

or you have to kill so this was also a

religious war. It's not a religious war

because I like us it was a more like we

grew up in communist. Albanian was not a

religious the way it's in a Middle East.

You know, Albanian we marry among

Christians. We don't have no issue.

Albanian is like uh one of the best

example you can live in the uh whole

world because we have no issue

Christians or Muslims. We are friends.

We uh celebrate all Christmas, Ramadan

all together. So we have no issues

between us. Of course, lately we have

very dangerous fanatics. Mhm. We crazy

fanatics because Albanians came out to

uh go in a Syrian war over 4 number one

country from the population give more

jihadist to the ISIS and al-Qaeda than

any different countries. So but uh uh us

we was not religious like that. So we

was modernize uh educate drink I was

parting I was drinking I was uh doing

life no different from you and rest of

the world. So we was no issue with

religion but certain they used to look

us like that. The other side always used

to look as oh they are dangerous because

they are Muslims you know they can

threat us they can kill us but we was

not like that and they were supposedly

Christian Christians yes orthodox

Christians from no different from

Russians.

Holy [ __ ] But Croatians are Catholics

with Croats we have very good uh

relation. We never had issues with them

only with the Serbians cetnik which they

are you know like Slavic. Mhm. No

different from Russians. Mhm.

Wow. What happened? What what happened

with your parents? Do you have any

brothers and sisters? I one brother

passed away here in 8 n years ago. One

of them oldest one is in Switzerland. I

had I bring my parents and the rest and

my parents passed away few years ago in

United States. They all US citizens. So

I bring everybody. I'm the one I sponsor

bring in all my family. Only my wife and

kids are born and raised here. My

parents become nationalized citizen from

me here. And did they fight too? No, my

parents not. My father served in

Yugoslav military two years but he

served 1960.

Your brothers? And my brother uh did

service but he didn't caught up in a

war. The youngest one he came young here

in US so he didn't uh went in a war. How

did it end? Uh uh the end was

uh it's good. My uh older brother he

served in the US love military. He did

in 1988. So that time was no war and my

father did in 1940. It was no war that

time and the rest of family didn't

serve. How did the war end? Oh very

brutal. Still it's uh it's a threat.

Croatia separated. Yugosavia is now

seven countries. It should start Serbia,

Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia and

Kosovo Montenegro. So it's seven

different country from Yugoslavia. But

uh still we have little issues. We have

a US military in Kosovo which is our

number one protector. To us it's

Albanians we believe God is in the sky.

America it's in the ground. It's a for

Albanians is Albania and Koso it's like

a 53rd state of US. You know we are more

pro but we have also issue with the

terrorist with fanatics definitely we

have a problem. So it's not like uh we

are clean. We're not uh uh because it

was Albanian from Kosovo who came out in

Frankfurt, Germany a few years ago. If I

don't make mistake, six, seven years

ago, he executed two US Marines in

Frankfurt, Germany. He k he shot two or

three. Wow.

Yeah. and uh uh not to pass the in uh

1991, October 9, 1991, I tried to escape

from the military, from the war zone on

November 9, October 9, I'm sorry. And uh

I got caught in uh uh entering the Belg

airport and my father was in a bus and

my brother-in-law they was trying to

help me to escape the war and I got

arrested from military police and that

was one of the worst ever days I passed

in my entire life. I was tortured so

badly when I had to use the bathroom. I

was

uh leaking blood. That's how they

torture me. Yugoslav military. How did

they torture you? They handcuffed me

from the right hand with the left and

they was hitting me those black sticks

they used to use in the military. I was

bleeding badly. They was letting me stay

in that and they was doing in the right

foot just to have me to admit I'm a

leaving. I'm a deserter from military.

And Sean for me was uh uh or me to die

or my family. So I decide to sacrifice

myself, not to sacrifice my family. So

what I did that I took the pain. They

torture me so badly and I never admit

it. I said I'm going to die that day in

military prison. I'm not going to admit

it. I'm leaving the military. They

tortured me so badly after four days

because in

Yugoslavia I was a communist have a

little uh skills because 1981 my father

was a police for 4 years in Yugoslav

police that I'm a regular police so I

learned how they when they torture

people if you take a pain for 72 hours

they will let you go. So if you don't

take the pain and you give up, you said,

"Yes, I did that." Then of course you're

going to get tortured and you're going

to get the prison. So now it was two

things or me to die or my family. So I

never admitted and they took me from a

military prison that sent me right away

in a war zone. And you have a piece of

paper uh proof. I send it to you guys

and you can see it clear. In October 13,

one of the officers, Captain Kabino,

he's the one who helped me sign that uh

uh permit. I'm going to uh be for 2 days

uh visiting my family but actually I was

not going to visit the family but I he

was helping me to leave the war because

I was going to go in military court

minimum 25 years just to enter the

military court because I did that uh uh

uh uh shot against chetnik. So I was

between uh 25 years or death sentence.

So I had no choice to do that and I

successfully left Yugoslav army. My

family thought I was dead. I went in my

city Kosovo that night. It was a 4:00

a.m. midnight in the morning and I

jumped from the wall. All my family

thought I was dead. When I uh knocked

the window of complete family was

waiting for my dead body to send it from

military. When they saw me live in my

city, everybody thought I was dead. I

got killed because I was arrested from

the military police and then finally I

received help from the some family

members and I left Yugoslavia in uh

October 14, 1991. I I went in

Switzerland. Took me 10 days journey to

enter Switzerland from Yugoslavia. How

did you get to Switzerland from

Yugoslavia? I it was a long journey.

I'll be very honest. Not easy young guy

to do like that. It's I guess my nature

is little bit uh uh like brave uh uh

they help me uh to give me a fake

passport. Not fake passport fake uh uh

my picture but different name. Mhm. I

never travel like that but I guess God

give me some kind of skills my nature.

That's how even I came out to CIA

because I was capable you know I'm a uh

street smart even I was not who knows

what kind of education in a school but I

was a natural street smart and I came

out to use that passport my name was uh

uh Yakubra Mushi when I used that

passport I did use at least all in my

life maybe 10 or 13 different names by

now So uh I took that passport. I

traveled from Macedonia to Bulgaria.

From Bulgaria I flew to Italy and in

Italy I get arrested. They was not

letting me uh go through from Bulgaria

to Italy. I had a little cash with me

and they they keep me one night in a

prison in Italy and they sent me back to

Bulgaria. But now uh if I don't come out

my with my ideas to enter Switzerland,

if I go in Yugoslavia, I was going to be

in a military uh prison and uh life or

death. So when you have this kind of

situation then now you got to uh do

whatever it takes to survive you know

it's not like uh you have experience but

experience you guys do it's a different

because you have a strong support when

you have a US military or US government

you feel more strong you know it's a

different feeling but me I don't have

that uh uh support I have a my support

is is only me how I'm going to survive.

So I uh was returning uh from Italy to

Bulgaria and I called from my one of

couple of best friend and a family

member to come and help me. So they

smuggled me from Bulgaria to Romania

illegal. And then from Romania I did all

my trips uh uh Romania, Hungaria,

Germany, Germany uh Belgium, Belgium,

France, France, Switzerland. I entered

Switzerland in October 26, 1991. And all

that all that was I mean how did you

fund that? With money. I had money take

it. It took uh that time I believe uh it

was not over $2,300 marks that time. So

basically like

$2,300 because I was always using buses,

local buses and stuff. So to pay a

little cheap and stuff, not to be

expensive. I never pay smuggler. So

everything in my life I did I never pay

smuggler. All I did myself. I used to

use You did this all yourself? All

myself just using my connection friends

you know like that and knowing me how I

was uh brave and tough. So always I used

to receive support. I mean that's a lot

of friends in a lot of countries. Yes.

Yes I do. Even today,

Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, I mean

France, Belgium. Yes. Holy [ __ ] So you

knew people in every one of these. Every

one of the countries. Yes. How who were

they? Were they family members?

Albanians. Albanians. Everywhere.

Albanians. It's all connection. Even

today I'm speaking to you. Uh I can

easily say it. If you pick a globe and

turn and put the finger, I'm sure I have

a friend somewhere somehow. It's kind of

I'm very friendly with people and uh I'm

a loyal to my friends. It's not the job

I did. My friends are never bad guys. I

never have a friend bad guys. When I

said friend bad guys meaning hating

United State, all my friends are good

with us, good with a life. Mhm.

Regardless what they do with the

personal life, when it's come to choose

a US or terrorist, I don't have no

friends who side with terrorist. All I

have friends who side 100% with us. Wow.

And so what what happens when you get to

Switzerland? I came out in a Switzerland

in uh then I have a uh 10 or 15 first

cousins in Switzerland included my older

brother. He was working that time in

Switzerland. I stay in Switzerland for a

couple of months from October to

December. In December 23rd, I start

working after one week in Switzerland, I

start working construction in

Switzerland, illegal, staying illegal.

And uh I get arrested in 2 days before

Christmas. I'm sleeping in apartment in

Switzerland and my brother and my first

cousins, 10 of them, they was in a club.

We were they was all young and they come

in with two cars, I think 11 or 12 guys.

And the police obviously know only

Albanians can be uh six, seven guys in

one small car. So they get arrested. So

they come now they when they arrest they

come close to the building I used to

live. But nobody knew it what floor I

was living because one of my cousins uh

give me free apartment for a few months

because I came from military. Everybody

knew it what I been through in the

Yugoslav military. So they was kind of

respecting me from my past where I did

it. So they kind of like treated me a

little special than the rest of the

friends and cousins. I was like a uh

like a brave man to them and a special

treatment. So they arrested me now and

uh it was uh December 23rd the police

come 3:00 a.m. in the apartment where I

used to live in Geneva and uh me and one

of my cousins was sleeping. The bell was

ringing that night and uh he said it's a

bell. I said okay wake up and just open

the door. And he said but I see people

with a white shirt. I said it's okay you

can open the door. They just want in 10

15 cups. the Swiss uh police with the

guns and everything and they're telling

us uh don't move, don't move and they in

a French and I was very little that time

in a French now I I know because I used

to live in a Geneva side and Quebec side

so I I'm good in five six different

languages and now they're asking me for

passport they turn the light on and the

passport was next to TV and that night I

see

very bad dreams in a war and he said uh

your name and I said is Samoa Yakra

Mushi in a French and he looked that oh

[ __ ] now what I'm going to do you know

and he the other one get arrested my

brother get arrested and 10 other 15 uh

10 or 12 first cousins all of them get

arrested together they send us in a

prison in Geneva I stay for four or five

days in Geneva Huh? Now it's my plan to

survive because everybody going to get

deported in Yugoslavia and nobody's from

military only me from the all of us. So

what I'm going to do I need to plan

something myself. They taking us from

Geneva to Zurich and from Zurich uh Tika

to Yugoslavia. And now everybody walking

in airplane. It was uh uh two days after

Christmas for between Christmas and New

Year 1991. I'm planning my plan B using

my skills. Everybody moving in a flight.

I'm the last uh uh to enter the airplane

and I'm telling the police I'm saying to

him miss to me don't the passport which

is can you give me the passport? He said

yes I want to show it to you something

and he give me the passport with a

boarding ticket.

I took the passport, a complete passport

in front of him and I I throw in a floor

and I pushed the police and then they

punched me. That's where I was looking.

I was looking to get hit so to seek the

asylum and I was in a floor. Everybody

walked in the flight. They closed the

flight right away the door. Now they

jump all the police in me. What I did? I

said muas aa desertter of military the

Yugoslavi and they got stuck when you

mentioned desertter meaning deserter it

was from Yugoslav military because that

time a lot of albinis was deserting the

Yugoslav military and they believe it

they sent me back to Geneva they give me

a translator and I told the translator

look at I can bring my military IDs I'm

from former military I came from war

zone from

Vukovar and they bring the translator

and they give me asylum in Switzerland

temporarily. That was December 1991. I

stayed in in Switzerland from 1991 to

October

1994 in Switzerland. October 1994 I came

to United States. How did you get to the

United States? It's very good question

and it's excellent answer. In uh 1994 I

have my uncle came here in 1960. He

immigrated from Albania. He was a US

citizen. So I dreamed all the time. I

have my aunt and a lot of first cousin

they came that time. So I always dreamed

United State you know because they used

to come from US to Koso to visit us and

you know we see like always good you

know to be in United States you know my

first cousins they always uh talking

nice some of them they born in US that

time we talking 35 years ago because I

have family members they came 50 years

ago 60 years ago and uh I was dreaming

to come here and Switzerland was not

giving us asylum for good like in United

States they was giving us just temporary

all the former military was receiving

status only temporary in Switzerland. So

I asked my uncle I said can you send me

invitation I want to come in United

States. He said I would send it to you

but it's not easy you to get that uh

visa. I said look it you send it to me

I'm going to get the visa and uh he sent

me the visa and with his invitation that

denied. So what I did it now I use again

my skills. I got I got the passport from

somebody friend of mine and I went in a

US embassy in Switzerland and got the

visa myself. I got a visa with a

different name not my name blur skoro

again my skills to get the visa in the

US embassy and I went in Zurich and I

got visa they gave me multiply one year

visa for us I got the visa I came in JFK

I flew in uh October 1994 and u I my

uncle was waiting for me in JFK and it

was funny because like I'm using my uh

uh skills

not to trust still even my uncle but not

to tell him what I'm coming with name.

So he's he's coming in information in

JFK calling for blur but uh my name was

a different name Fei Husseini so totally

different name now so he's avoiding the

night report I took cab from JFK I mean

Atoria coins to his house and then I see

my wife my uncle's wife she's American

uh not Albanian American born and uh uh

Patricia she said welcome is she's

asking me I did a letter a few words

where it's your uncle. I said I don't

see my uncle. Then uh he she paged her

him that time it was no cell phones and

uh then my uncle respond

said where are you? I said I'm in your

apartment. How come you was not waiting?

I said because I took a different

passport different name you know. And

then he come and I start live in US

1994.

Wow, that's quite the journey. Yes,

that's quite the journey. Had you ever

met your uncle before that was here in

the US? Yes, I did. You did? Yes, I did.

Yes. And how long had he been here

before you arrived? Oh, he came here in

1960. Oh, 19 When did you meet him? Oh,

he used to come always from here in in

my country. Okay. He used to he was he

become US citizen and he had no problem

to come to visit us. And you didn't

trust him? I don't trust him because I

was uh fearing if I get arrested then I

will put him in trouble. Gotcha. So I

was trying to save him. Gotcha. You know

how it's a loss. If he knows I'm coming

with a fake passport, different name, he

can get trouble. Mhm. Mhm.

Holy [ __ ] Yeah, that's quite the

journey. And how old how old were you

when you got to the US, father? I was uh

20 uh 23 24. All that for in in 3 to

four years? Yes. Yes. After the military

3 4 years. So I start military 19. I

finished 20 and uh after 20 it's until

2000 1994. So basically 23

24 at young age with the strong

skills. Let's take a quick break. When

we come back we'll pick up with your

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All right, Blair, we're back from the

break. You're coming to the US. I know

you worked a lot of odd jobs and then

you got picked up and started working

with the Albanian mafia, but and we'll

get to that, but so arriving in the US,

you're living at your uncle's house with

his family. What's what do you start

doing in uh uh after a few months? I

stay if I don't make a mistake two or

three month until my uh I got my own

apartment. My own apartment I got

somewhere in February

1995 and I apply for asylum 95.

I start in December 94 and then uh we

send the papers to immigration 1995 and

my asylum was right away approved and

granted in May 1995. I got granted

political asylum in US which is it was

my dream come true you know I was always

dreaming that and I become a like very

quick very easy a lot of people was

struggling and suffering not being able

to become a US resident I did in less

than 3 4 months and uh after I got

granted 95 I start working uh did a lot

of different jobs and uh restaurant uh

construction uh I was dorman I was in a

cleaning company and uh supporting my

family I was always full-time worker

never no job and uh somewhere

95 96 it start breaking the war in

Yugoslavia between my country Kosovo and

Yugoslavia because those years it was

Slovenia and Croatia very got separated

so it was left over uh Kosovo,

Montenegro and Macedonia. And it was not

easy. I'll be very honest. I was working

hard and uh single person with one check

paying the bills and supporting family

was not easy. And it was good you to

make a living for yourself but that time

my family was not working in Yugoslavia.

So I had over my back maybe 10 15 family

members no job in Kosovo. So there was

all dependent from me. So all my family

was waiting for me. So no pension, no

income, no nothing. Just blur him to

send it to them. And I was young hanging

out with uh becoming friend with lot of

Albanians. And one day it was uh

1996. I'm in a bar with all Albanians,

you know, drinking party. Again I'm a uh

through the religion Muslim but you know

enjoying life nothing shre no uh wahhabi

no uh strict Islam and uh I'm telling my

friends look uh I'm having a little

hardship you know supporting my family

and stuff but I always used to live by

myself no roommate no nobody just my own

apartment and enjoying the life and one

day they approached me they said look we

can help you you know and I said, "Help,

you know, how is the help possible?"

They said, "You know, we can send we can

you can send drugs to

Albania." I said, "Drops to Albania?"

No, I never did that. You know, first

time, you know, having this

conversation. I was in a military

service, war and stuff like that, but

not but in a community. I was highly

respected in New York. So by knowing my

past, how I got arrested in the military

because it was uh not easy somebody to

uh survive that torture. It's uh it's

crazy, you know. So now everybody knows

that torture I did and you know how I

served in the Croatian war, you know,

was one of the most dangerous war in

Balkan. So kind of not kind of but even

in a mafia community my name start

becoming among the uh five six families

uh Gambino crime family Genovese Bonano

Luces all these Italian mafia included

Albanians and uh I was respected we was

hanging out in one of the Gambino crime

club in Bensonos used to be well-known

uh neighborhood of it mobsters in New

York. I used to live in that

neighborhood, you know, living all in

the middle of the mobster, so all

surrounded with mafia and I kind of

blend in good with good skills and now

it's quick spread the rumors, oh, he

came from the war, you know, uh, knowing

through the media he comes from the war

zone, they give you highly respect, you

know, they treat you more than the rest

of the people, you know, because, you

know, surviving in that Croatian war

it's kind of big things I start the trip

first trip if I don't make mistake

somewhere end of 96 first drug deal and

sending drugs to Albania so hold on what

what's going through your head when the

Albanian mafia says we can help we just

need you to push drugs to Albania

those moments for example I didn't much

ask because I know the nature of the

mafia is not to ask too much questions

Because if you ask questions then you

raising question maybe you work for

government you know because my asylum

was granted right away so a lot of them

was still illegal because that time in

US nobody was asking you for documents

you know you can live here you know like

rest the illegal immigrants nobody will

ask you if you have any paper you know

so it was like a like normal everybody

else and since I start hanging out with

them I said not to ask questions all I

need to follow the whatever they tell me

to follow, you know, nothing, no

questions. And they said, they teach me

how to do all these things. And I said,

okay, we start, you know, hanging out,

being more close to them, more, you

know, but they had a good reputation. I

tell you this, Albanians, Italian mafia

was very dangerous, but Italian mafia

would not play with Albanian mafia

because they was taking them too

serious. Albanians was killing them with

no problems. You know, it was more kind

of serious Albanians than Italians. you

know, they used to see them. Then when I

came out to the prison, then I found out

Albanians was really more strong than

Italians. So the Italian mafia was they

were scared of the Albanians.

Absolutely. 100%.

Absolutely. Even me for example when I

was in that club in the look the the

time mafia how they was functioning you

know when it's a club they all know each

other even it's not social club but they

all know each other. So now they know it

is guy who came from the war and it's me

and I was used to be known like Benny.

My nickname was Benny. Everybody used to

know me Benny. So now oh Benny came from

the war. So when I walk into that club

they always respect me. So but I never

worked with Italian mafia. Never had no

any we I had a friends you know we

communicated hang out but never any

business like being a Italian mob mob.

So it was friendly friendly but never

been in in in mob cross the business

line. No, never. Just with Albanian. Did

you know these guys were in the mob

before they approached you? No, I never

knew it until I start I think I believe

second or third trip. Then I start

becoming friendly, seeing them

gambling, uh using drugs, drinking,

party, you know, all these things and

controlling gambling. You know, they

used to control a lot of gambling stuff

in New York City. Albanians, they used

to control a lot of of the Italian

mobsters. You know, it's not like

Albanians was not like uh big group, but

small group, very strong, very loyal to

each other. Interesting.

Interesting. What else? What else was

the mafia into in New York? Gambling.

Gambling. Drugs was always drugs in

them. Uh prostitution always with them.

Rkitarian, extortion, all this whatever

is in a all the bad [ __ ] all illegal

things, they used to be under the

control of mafia.

And so let's let's talk about how you

got into drug running. What kind of

drugs was it? It's it's cocaine, sending

cocaine from United States. First I

start in Albania for few trips and then

from Albania I start doing to Italy.

Then I start dealing with the mobsters

of Albania, mobsters in Italy. Okay. So

you went So let me get let me just get

this straight. So they sent you to

Albania. Yeah. I flew from JFK to Italy.

Uh used to change flight in Switzerland

or Germany. Always it was a transit

Germany Frankfurt or Italy and then from

Italy to Albania. But mostly of the time

Germany and Albania or Switzerland,

Albania. So did you live there or would

you come back to New York? I will come

always back to New York. I just send the

drugs, bring the money. Send the drugs,

bring the money. So we used to take two

pieces, one piece, one keys of cocaine,

send it or two. Sometimes we used to be

two, three of us, sent uh six, seven

kilos and come back uh with money.

Did you have any fear about going back

back? Fear back to go where? Albania.

No, I didn't have no fear. None. None.

How would you smuggle the drugs in the

body? We used to uh we used to sold a

little bit those uh like a swimming suit

tight and make a piece of pieces in a

body. That time was uh it's a very I can

explain a little bit. Uh uh uh checks in

airport used to be very different, very

easy. You couldn't smuggle, you couldn't

walk. Like I used to have a nice three

piece of

suit, nice clothes and drugs inside and

tie it up good in a body and you you

pass it through before you do the trip.

Same clothes we wear and we go do test

one day before if it's going through

alarm detector. If it goes those closed

alarm detector, then you change it. you

do something close, no belt. So either

uh ring the alarm. So the next day I

used to uh uh smuggle the drugs, take

the drugs from New York, send it to

Albania or Italy and then Italy in a uh

sell it in the street. But I never dealt

in the street life, meaning selling in

the streets. Always I used to deal with

big guys like uh bosses street

transport. Yeah. Just uh you know not

smuggling and selling in the street.

ever dealt in a street cell. So, how

would they how would the cocaine be

packaged? Well, the way it comes from

Colombia, it would be in a Yeah. In a

piece break. Yes. Always break and you

wouldn't break it up. Never break

because if you break then uh they don't

want to buy it. So, always hard breaks.

I used to uh take uh it was time three

killers in the body. So, one in the

front and two sides. A three pieces

suit. Very nice

suit tie like businessman with a

suitcase with you. Pass it. No problem.

Wow. How many times did you do this?

I did easy I can say minimum 10 times. 8

to 10 times. Yes.

And what would the process be like when

you got to Almania? Oh, hanging out over

there three four days uh giving to the

people. We used to always have waiting

people with money just you stay 3 days

to one week not to be suspicious when

you come back in US so not to raise

suspicious how you come right away next

day so you stay hang out enjoy Albania

Albania cost one week and come back

bring the money no problem how much do

you get smuggling a key cocaine into

Albania it was uh kilo that time was uh

$55,000 a kilo $55,000 kilo so you're

smuggling about 3 kilos of Crap. Yes.

150. It was a time one shot I bring it

the highest amount of money.

$560,000 cash. Holy [ __ ] And that's all

for you to keep with the group. With the

group. Yeah. With a group. Yeah. Sharon.

We was always partners and sharing. So

that was that was your money. You didn't

need to transport the money and give it

to the Albanian mob back in New York.

That was 5,000. There was three full of

us all the time. Sharon, how much would

you be able to keep? It was a time

80,000 90,000 per kilo. I'm saying Oh,

per kilo was maybe uh per kilo I can

say$8 to $9,000. Eight to So you would

get paid roughly a little under $10,000

per kilo. Yes. Yes.

It's a lot bigger than uh working at a a

cleaners. Absolutely. Yeah. Big

different. It's especially like uh this

is a trick you know you think it's a big

money sweet money but that's the worst

thing today I would freely said I would

never even dream even advise anybody to

do any work like that because that's

short time what do you think would have

happened if you would have said no I

don't want to smuggle drugs in the

beginning nothing nothing nothing

absolutely I need the money. So, they

didn't care. They they have a

man. It's not everybody was uh

uh brave the way I used to with the

military experience, but there still was

people to do and still continue doing.

They don't do the way they did it. They

change all those things, but they're

still doing. Drugs would never stop.

It's a business. And so, what would the

meetup look like? How would you know who

you're meeting over there in Europe?

Yes, always through the friends, you

know, always to the names, always to the

mediator. So I go, for example, to one

of the family members from here in

Albania, not to my family, to the uh

members of the group and then they

waited for me in the airport. They

taking me home. I stay in the apartments

in Albania and next day they coming to

take the drugs, giving the money. Always

drugs, money, exchanging, never loan. So

always paid in the spot in the hand

given the drugs, taking the money. Did

your family know you were doing this?

No. Your uncle? No. Nobody. You don't

think they You don't think they picked

up? I never show to them money. My

family knew what I over there. It was

easy to believe because I was telling

them I'm doing two job. So I was never

telling my uncle how much I'm sending

over there because then he would know

what I'm doing. So I try to keep very

strict because I learned one thing in

the crimes if a person knows he can be

charged with the crime. So I learned

that part to keep the secret. But after

like few years uh my uncle found out I

did it. And then we're going to come to

the point. It's a funny part how my wife

caught me doing the drug dealing. Found

out it's very I didn't even believe.

Let's go.

I'm in a phone using different

language Serbian talking to somebody in

a Serbian because my wife is born and

raised in

US. Then I was never sure she she

understands Serbian. I never thought she

was uh five or six years old. They left

us to live in the uh valet called

Prussia which is in the Serbian side.

Her parents took her for a couple of

years to live there when she was young

and she went in Serbian school. I never

told my wife she was no Serbian. So I'm

talking in the phone home having a nice

conversation. I got

married. I hang up the phone. My wife,

she think I'm working restaurant. And I

took her to work with me. And then she

came out. She said, "You're a drug

dealer." I said, "How you know?" That's

what she said. How do you know? Yeah. I

said, "Baby, she's telling me you just

had a conversation about drugs. You're

talking to Serbian." And then she tell

me whatever I said. I said, "Gez, what

happened with me now?" That's how I call

up my wife to know what was the

conversation. I was uh we was making

meeting how we going to take the drugs

but I was home. So for my wife not to

know I told them look uh we're going to

talk in this language because my wife

she doesn't know she's American born you

know. I never thought American can learn

Slavic you know it was like common

sense. How did she respond to that? Oh,

she didn't like

that. She didn't like that. She freaked

out. If my family knows I marry a drug

dealer, that would be hate

me. Her family It's It's interesting

because before I got married, we met

each other. We dated. We met each other.

It's a It's a in a document. It's like

some part is like a love story. in uh I

met her in uh 1996 97 I'm sorry in

Albanian party and that time I was you

know my name was the best in Albanian

community I was everybody used to know

it's Albanian mob Albanian gangster uh

very good reputation driving Mercedes

uh few years in United States you know

not a lot of immigrants can do that

bulletproof car you know all these

things I'm uh I start dating her for a

few months and I'm picking the phone

calling her parents you know to get

engaged and the first thing her father

asked me what do you do for a living I

said I work in restaurant how long you

been here I said I've been here 3 4

years he said I cannot give you my

daughter you know you just want to marry

her because you want to become US

citizen but I was very granted asylum

you know I didn't need to get married

with my wife to become US citizen I said

look sir I don't need uh to get married.

I have my papers. I'm traveling to my

country. I don't have no problem with

the papers. No. He said and he hang up

the phone. I said, "Okay, if you hang up

the phone, then then we start I we

engaged and she took a vacation with

their parents. We planned everything and

uh so in June 967 they're going back to

Kosovo and they are in vacation and

after a couple of weeks I'm going in

vacation too. But I decide with my wife

to get married and I told where my

family I'm going to come in Kosovo and

make a wedding party and get married and

I'm going the parents in Kosovo they

don't want to give it to uh to get

married. They told her no and I said

look are you going to get married? She

tell her parents in front of me you know

what I love my hus

uh my boyfriend we was engaged and I'm

going to go with

him. She had a you know choice. It's was

20 years old 19 uh between 19 and 20. So

she left the family and come and got

married with me in Kosovo. And then we

come in US uh in uh 97 98 my first

daughter was born April 98 and the

second daughter was born in uh September

1997

1999. But those years then I start drug

dealing working always. I always used to

have a job so to be good to the

government side paying taxes and

everything but doing drug dealing.

And your wife she found out before you

got married or after? After she found

out after we got married and you kept

doing it. I kept doing that. Yes. Then

money was sweet.

Money was sweet and it's Did she come to

terms with it? Uh then I used to take

her a couple of times. uh few times I

used to take her with me when I used to

go then I start changing working myself

uh working with Italy only not no more

with Albania now I build a relation

friendship with Italians and I used to

work myself in Italy then I used to take

her with me just to look good in I

reports like a couple traveling just you

know like the customs not to be uh

suspicious in what we're doing so I used

to take her

just fly to uh from JFK to Italy. Always

using transit. Even going to Italy, I

used to always use Germany. Interesting.

So, what did the Albanian mafia think

when you started working for the

Italian? Uh they never thought I was

working for Italian. I was working for

myself, but I have a good relation

friendship with mobsters. So, nothing

like I'm under them. I'm also in my own

but not under mafia. So there was no no

no not suspicious anything. I never I

always keep my loyalty to Albanian

mobsters.

How did the conversation serve with the

Italians? Uh I learned language

they conversation start reputation

building up. I built my name from

Bensoners Brooklyn New York. So when you

build in New York you hanging out with

mobsters. uh you know always become

friends drinking together every night in

a bars and that's how you know build the

friendship with them how did they

approach

you how they see how they respecting uh

my people how they was respecting me

they used to know I came from the

military they used to know I came from

the war zone we used to have a

conversation when we in a club we always

talk you know I was there you know we

did this we did that you know then now

you become strong you because I barely

saw anybody uh being in a uh past like

me, you know. I was uh I didn't see

anybody coming from the war like the way

I came. So it was like only me in the

group beat. Of course, there was guys uh

in a street life way they did crazy

things uh beating, breaking legs,

breaking arms. There was a guys like

that. But to them was still they can do

that. But if a Benny

get crazy, he can shoot us. So Benny is

respected. It's a among oursel. We can

play and joke, but still we got to

respect him for his past. So you saw him

breaking people's legs. And it's not I

witnesses, but I knew it when they came

from the situation. I I I knew it. They

broke somebody's legs or, you know, I

hear the they shot somebody in a trunk.

They told me we shot somebody and left

him in a car in a trunk. They would just

tell you this. Yeah. Yeah. There's no

problem. And I know who was the person

who got shot. Who? Give me one example.

It's uh one of uh it's

Albanian. It's

considered like a traitor to them. And

uh I can I think his name because it's a

long

time. And uh they told me we shot so and

so. And then I found out uh he got shot

and they left him in his car in the

trunk. And then I know people got beat

up breaking legs, breaking jars and

stabbing knife and stuff like that. Uh I

used to know I went far. I used to know

son-in-law of the Jungari Carm. We was

in the same room in a prison. I met John

Jr. from Gambino crime family. I met uh

uh boss of Columbbo family. I met uh uh

Genovese boss with one of them Anthony

Spiro who passed away in prison. He was

my cell partner is he was a head of the

Genovese. Anthony Spiro was life

sentence. He was my cell partner. So I

spent time with uh uh head co-founder of

the bloods in New York, Pistol Pete and

his son is in a Florence, Colorado. I

was very close with him. He was my self

partner. Three years we went alone.

Excellent. Wow. Did you know who these

guys were at the time? Not the time. No.

No. In the beginning some of the mobs I

used to know like from the Gambino for

example, one of the two brothers Saul

and Tommy I knew there was a wise guys.

There was uh you know uh very strong in

a rank in a Gambino crime family.

How did you eventually get picked up?

It's again it's my past I mean in

prison. In a

prison I tell you this is the best part

of the story of the

life. That trip Sean I did not do that

trip. I was set up. I was not in

involved in that trip. When I get

arrested, it's a mistake of the US

government. When I say mistake of US

government, how informers was using

government? So informer, one of the

informers, there was two of them. He

came out from the prison and few where

he did I start lending him money. We

used to do lawn shark in a little bit

and he sent somebody in Pakistan for

drugs. He's he's dead today. He's

deceased in a prison. They said he got

killed or something but it's not my

problem. I don't care. He deserve he got

what he deserved. And uh this guy he who

set me

up he said one day we coming from the

Bronx to Queens. He said we used to call

each other son. He said be careful maybe

government one day arrest you. They can

tell you I'm in former but I'm not.

Sean, when you don't have no uh when

you're not in a system, federal prison,

look, you have a very strong good

experience. I uh see you part of the

life story. You've been in a se, you've

been in a intelligent agency and it's

excellent experience you have. But it's

a different my experience. You can know

the laws little bit. I don't know the

laws. Only time you learn the laws.

Today speaking with you, I'm like a

parallegal. I know the law very well. I

can tell you about the US laws. You will

never believe it. Mhm. So I'm coming in

for telling me, "Hey, be careful. If

they arrest you, they can tell you, you

know, I'm working for the FBI." I didn't

believe. One of my first cousin told me

one day, "Look, cousin, don't trust Nick

because Nick is uh FBI informer." I

said, "Come on, Nick cannot be in former

because he knows me. I come from the

war. I will shoot him. You know, he's

fearing me." But I learned all these two

years when I was friend with that

informer when he talked to his family,

he always mentioned my name because his

phone was tapped. So if something

happened, he get killed. So he they know

his family who he was with, you know. So

every time he's with me, he talked to

his wife or somebody of family and tell

them, "Oh, I'm with Benny. Benny, Benny,

Benny, Ben." And then one day he got me

paranoia and I told him, "Son, how come

you always tell mention my name in the

Oh, no, no, just because I love you."

Okay. One day we playing pool and

somebody called him from Greek. He was

deported. He was arrested and deported.

He stay in a federal prison. But this

guy went in a bathroom. So the phone

ring and ringing and

uh Cleonth the guy who got killed was

VTO. Albanian guy in a trunk from the

past story we was talking. It came in my

mind head. His name is VTO. Albanian

name. So he got killed from one of the

Albanian mobsters. He was shot in the

head in a trunk. So now Cleanth is the

guy Albanian who calling from the

Greece. This guy is in the bathroom, the

informer, but he's my friend, my

ex-friend. And I answered the phone, his

phone. And this guy cursing me, saying,

"Hey, you mother f, why you not

answering the phone? You effing snitch

this, that." I said, "Yo, who you

talking to? You know, I'm not Nick. I'm

Benny. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, where is Nick?

He's not answering my phone." I said,

"He's in the bathroom." He said, "You

know, he's an informer." I said,

"Really?"

She had a lot of signs that says this

guy was an involved. But Sean, it was

too late for me. This is it coming in

1991. It's very

I'm government is very investigating me.

They watching me. So I'm very followed

from the US government, from the FBI and

DA. So it was no more only choice was me

to stop. But they still was building

case against me. So what he did, he

asked me to do a favor to send him

$21,000 in Pakistan. I did wire from the

Western Union. I make that mistake in my

name. But I was young and it's not like

uh I thought I used always myself to

say, "Hey, he is going to be scared to

uh snitch me because he knows my past."

But he did it. He snitched me and

uh I don't want to use that. It was

informal. You know, we're trying to be

more polited in the language so the

viewers not to think now I'm going rough

in the people and uh I sent $21,000 to

somebody who was in Pakistan and he was

connected to one of the most wanted. You

have a picture with Bin Laden. So he was

supporter of bin Laden. I saw picture

with him and Bin Laden after I went to

Pakistan. So now I wire $21,000 and this

guy comes back in uh somewhere November

1999 and he get arrested in New York but

he doesn't tell nobody. He gets arrested

in six or seven Albanian group of the

mafia. Everybody goes in jail only this

one get uh bail. So uh now everybody

rumors how come this guy get bail? Long

story short, he doesn't call me. He

doesn't uh come to see me. He owes me

$21,000. So, in former Nick, he tells

me, "You have to go yourself in Pakistan

me to pay you the money." But he was

setting me up. Now, it's not I'm not I'm

100% clean. I'm according to the US laws

and I'm witnessing today in this uh

interview, I was 100% clean. I was never

dealing with heroine, never dealing with

Afghanistan or Pakistan. All I was

dealing with cocaine with Italy, never

with terrorist. So I was always used to

think if I give them money so that money

is going to support terrorist. So I was

keeping myself because US was to me my

dream place. Mhm. So regardless what I

do with Italy and gangs and mafia, long

as I keep myself clean with terror

group. So I don't mind dealing with

mafia. I mind dealing with terror group.

So this guy sent me to Pakistan. I'm

taking a first trip in uh February of

2000 in Pakistan. That's my first trip

in my life in

Pakistan. I'm going over there not

knowing nothing country never visit in

my life. landing over there. I took my

wife with

me which is strictly over there bad but

I never took my wife when I was meeting

and now this informer has a good strong

relation friendship with one of the

Pakistani wanted he's still wanted today

he's in still a FBI wanted list and I'm

going his name I can say it it's not I

don't mind to say it his name his real

name is Mir Kazim Sha lives in a tribal

area in uh Peshar Mardan it's a city

peshar near the Afghanistan border so

he's still wanted from early '90s he's

still in FBI uh he's indicted twice in

eastern district court first trip

landing in Karachi Pakistan from Karachi

Pakistan I'm going to Islamabad Pakistan

in Islamabad I'm waiting for this guy

but this guy he knew what he's

wanted he was very part and he doesn't

come in my time. He called in hotel and

hotel tell me you have phone call from

guest and he said it's you. I said yeah

it's me. I'm going to come and see. I

waited one week 10 days he doesn't want

to come and see me. And I'm calling the

informer. I said that time he was my

friend. I said he said this is how it

works. You got to wait only in his time.

Then one time he he show up nighttime.

He doesn't want to get caught up in the

cameras and stuff. He walks in. He's

known

Amir aka Amir but his real name Mir

Kazim Sha. He said, "Hi, how are you?"

Good English speaking. You know at that

time he was easy. I was maybe 26 27 27

he was for sure 40

45. Said look you want to do this? I

said yeah I bring some money. I give him

a if I don't make mistake another

$20,000 cash to him. So for the trip so

he preparing five kilos of heroine to

bring it

back. So I took after one week 5 kilos

of heroine. How he did it? Sean it's a

good

part. When we was sitting I start

hanging out a few times. I want to visit

him. I want he took me to Afghanistan to

see how they grow in the opinion. They

have maybe at least five six thousand

security those Afghanistans with AKs and

stuff like that. But I was clean shave.

It's different than working for CIA. So

I was like clean western guy. No beard,

no nothing. So it's a little big

different than when I work for the

CIA. He took me over there. He said,

"Look, we're going to plan this trip.

But I want to tell you one thing. I know

I'm wanted in the US government." He

tell me straight up the first time when

I went in his house. He told me I'm

wanted from the US government. If I want

to be bad guy, I can send a bomb the way

I'm going to send you drugs and you can

leave it in JFK and blow the JFK. That's

what he told me in the first trip in

2000. We talking when there was not too

much uh al-Qaeda skin, you know the

al-Qaeda because you have experience but

not the rest of the world, you know. So

at the age 27 I meet him first time is

somebody who hates the uh US and then I

see picture with not just him with bin

Laden in a crew black and white picture

and he's in one of the corner bin Laden

in the middle he was a former Mujiadin

he was shot in Afghan war so he fought

with Mujiadines Russian war so he's a

former Mujiadin against Soviets so he's

not young and We talking nice

conversation. He taking me in

Afghanistan coming back and I stay I

think uh around 3 weeks for Where did

you go in Afghanistan? Do you know? Uh

near the tribal area. We passed through

the uh Mardan we went to from

Beluchistan site and uh we went I went

far as uh Kandahar. We went to Kandahar.

I was in Kandahar. I was uh uh one time

I think uh we visited uh for few hours

Maz Sharif. Mhm. So we spend those

tribal area where it's always control

from that time was complete control from

Taliban. It's not Taliban after

collapse. So time when I was there was

control of the Taliban and

uh nice. I came and bring the drugs. It

was excellent. What was the point of you

going to Afghanistan? He just wanted to

show you the fields and how is the song

he wants to uh bring me in. He wants me

to uh kind of recruit me in in debut. My

my interest was just to take that drugs

and bring it and get my money. My

interest was nothing uh uh be

al-Qaeda, not supporting terrorist. My

interest was to bring the drugs so I can

get my money and finish this. So I bring

the

drugs in a they bring the drugs, they

pass the customs in Pakistan. They bring

it in a bathroom after you do the all

the checkpoints because in Pakistan they

patch you down when you enter the

airport. They patch you down. But the

police of Pakistani police, this guy has

a old connection. Police brings the

drugs in a bathroom. So one day before I

meet the police outside and I know that

police going to bring the drugs. So he

bring west with a wearing himself. So

now when you pass the customs Pakistani

customs they open the luggage and they

put the tag that luggage is searched so

they don't have to go through and they

patch you down. You go the alarm

detector and everything and you clean

you pass the security before you board.

It's a bathrooms. So he goes, the police

goes first. He comes and watch me and I

follow him. So he goes in one bathroom.

He takes his west in the bathroom. He

comes out. I enter the bathroom. I wear

the west in the bathroom. So I'm a clear

in the customs. Now 5 kilo of heroine

west. It's in my body. So now I'm just

waiting to board. When you board in

airplane, they check the ticket. It's a

uh it was screened the bag at the carry

on and they know they not they don't

have to touch it because it was went to

checkpoint but drugs is in my body. So

I'm coming now from uh Karach to Shannon

and then from Shannon to JFK when I come

JFK I passed one time but first trip I

came from Karach to Canada Toronto.

I never came back. What I did, John, uh

Sean, we planned the trip for me to

avoid uh suspicious because when you

come in customs here, they ask you where

you coming from. And if you tell them

you're coming from Pakistan, they will

right away suspicious. But when you tell

them you coming from Canada, it's no

problem, you know. But in Canada when I

I come look uh Sean it's I want to just

uh to understand something very clear

you plan uh this uh kind of uh life in a

intelligent way you to avoid detection

you we planned this before how they the

government function was can avoid

tracing you. So when you come in from

Pakistan to Canada and in Canadian

customs I said I couldn't get a straight

flight for a JFK I have one day to stay

in Canada. So you just, you know, uh,

one word, you're lying to them,

protecting yourself because Canadians,

they think, okay, you're going to go

back to, uh, New York tomorrow, so they

don't need to ask you if you're bringing

anything, you know, you clean, just

transit one day. You understand? So then

when you come in in Toronto, the next

day when the customs in, you come

straight because in that time in Canada,

you pass the customs only Canada. When

you come in Laguardia, you go straight

in the street. They don't search you.

They don't ask no questions. You pass in

the customs in uh uh Canada. So I'm

clear. I bring the drugs 5 kilo. That's

the first trip. We want to make How many

passports did you have? All my life I

did maybe 12 or 13. 12 or 13 passports.

Uh yes. Where would you get the

passports? It's very easy. Everywhere.

Uh all like four or five times I had a

passport from CIA. Four times list. Not

those ones. Yes. Mine mine it's maybe at

least six seven times buying from the

people. They would just make them for

you. No problem. Any passports you name

it I couldn't get it. So you would fly

to Canada from Pakistan on a different

passport than you would and come with my

passport original travel document, US

travel document. I used to use my name

so I can be clear. I will not show the

passport. I had a visa for Pakistan

because you know to go in Pakistan you

have to have a visa regardless if you're

a citizen or anybody. Everybody who

would travel to Pakistan you have to

have a Pakistani visa. You you have the

visas in passport. So I used to use two

different passports all the time.

So would you go from the US to Canada to

Pakistan? Yes. Okay. So it just looked

like you were in can and then you would

keep that passport separate so it just

looked like you were in and out of using

two different passports.

Okay. Okay. And so how did you get how

did you get arrested? How did they catch

you? Oh, I'm I'm coming in uh May 2000.

Coming getting arrest when I went in May

2000. I'm going to make a short this

because we have a lot of story and he's

setting me up now. It's a clear I'm not

dealing. I'm going second trip because

those first drugs I bring he said it's

no good. informer telling me but

informer saying to the FBI and DA I'm

dealing with Ben different Ben not with

Nick all the drugs he's telling the

government I'm not dealing with informer

I'm dealing with totally different uh

source but he's a double agent he's

profiting himself he's using DEA and FBI

he's giving information but he never

telling the DA and FBI he's dealing with

drugs I'm dealing with somebody so he's

only informer former. So he's profiting

from himself in a drug dealing and he's

profiting from the government

paycheck. It's a double agent. Mhm. So

then uh he's telling me we have to go

you have to go back bring another five

kilos. I said come on man. I go I had a

bad accident over there in Pakistan with

horse. I'm not bringing drugs. two

different people bringing drugs from

Pakistan to uh Germany. In Germany,

somebody else supposed to come. What

informer does him and his wife sets my

sets up my

sister-in-law and my wife. So my

sister-in-law to come and bring the

drugs because his wife used to know my

sister-in-law, but I'm with those two

different uh carriers in Pakistan. So we

bring in the drugs. Then in Germany, I

see uh my sister-in-law and my wife was

in Germany and I got mad but there was a

last minute change plan. So he planned

so my sister-in-law get arrested and I

take the blame. So now we coming from

Germany to JFK they're letting me go

through informer give information about

my sister-in-law. So now I pass the uh

customs then I see my sister-in-law get

stopped and uh my wife and that time it

was on my daughter with them. Baby, this

is one of the worst mistake in my life.

I never forgive

myself. This is the worst

part. And then I walked

in. I walked

in and I said to the customs, I'm with

them. I said to myself, I have no

choice. But the agents, the custom

agents played me very dirty in my life.

Very unfair. In United State, you have

to have a Miranda

rights. The agent custom agent I I

remember his name to the day I died.

Jamal, he left the door cracked a little

bit and my baby, my daughter, year and a

half was walking around and he's in the

office with me, me and him. He said,

"Sir, we have two, you have a two

choices or you to take this blame or us

to take your daughter to put in a

shelter to somebody

else." and I didn't know my

rights. And I said to myself, you know

what? It was a very hard feeling

moments. I said, "Okay, let my daughter

go home. I take full

responsibility. I take all the blame." I

didn't do that trip. I said, "I'm a man.

I will take the

blame." And they let my daughter go home

and let my wife and my sister-in-law. I

took that. But I was happy if I was

given right. No. But I was happy I saw

my child going home because I make a

mistake. Every father would do that for

the

child. And I get

arrested, put in a

prison, sending me to

Metropol detention center.

This is not first time in a prison but

regretting my mistakes. How far I can

let that you know I was meant to die. I

was meant to be killed. I was meant to

be shot. But you know not to take a

blame for your

child. Every normal human being we do

that. And this is the part when I get

arrested and I said to myself, you know

what? It's okay. I'm gonna pay

this. I did

that. But we How old was your daughter?

Year and a half. Only a year and a half.

She's just was walking. The oldest

one before in the drug dealing time I

was involved with KLA. We missed one of

the good part in 98 99. I went from here

to fight to help my people in Kosovo

war. One US bombing was in 78 days

Yugoslavia. I was

inside fighting for my people. I was uh

also another war join Kosa Liberation

Army. I volunteered from US from New

York City. I didn't stay long 4 months

until the war finished. And then when I

came from the war I was very like

extremely good reputation like they used

to look me like I'm a killer. They used

to look me like

I'm two different wars men you know. One

in Croatian, one in Kosol liberation.

I'm very brave human. So now getting

arrested and not taking a blame, you

know it's I get charged with conspiracy

to import 1 kilogram. Were you a killer

of the second time? I was warrior.

What did you do in a

war? Fighting against Serbs with bottom

of my heart with not even thinking

second thought if I have to kill I will

kill. Did you kill? It was shoot. It was

shot. You never go to see victims. We

You never You always distance, but you

always shoot it. It's not It's a war. So

if I have the gun with me, I'm in a war

zone. I'm defending my country,

defending my people proudly. Proudly. If

I have to do with two countries, I will

fight. Even today, I have no problem to

fight for US. I have no problem to fight

for my country. If they call me today,

I'm volunteering anywhere, any zone. I

have no

problem. I get arrested. I've been put

now in a prison among the middle of

terrorist. All kind of groups. You name

it. Hisbah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad,

Al-Qaeda,

a want to share one of the pictures

because it's very good pictures with I

have one of the pictures in a prison

maybe. uh one, two, four or five

different members of terror groups with

me in prison. I become very quick muisin

in a prison. You become what? Mazin. The

leader of Muslims calling for

prayer and become prisons are run from

the Muslims. Every federal prison runs

from the Muslims. So I become a strong

uh uh leader in a Muslim community.

I start dealing with the FBI and

DEA cooperating taking my

blame. When I took my blame, I was

promised to be released in a short

period of

time. I got two years hold pre-trial

prison. So in

911 I got caught up being in a cell with

one of them of four or five guys they

bring the bombing from uh Canada to LA

2,000 million bombing one of the

terrorist was my cell partner I can

mention the name it's not a problem it's

a public information it's you know Mktar

Huri Algerian born with uh U Canadian

and Algerian passport, Rasam and Mskini.

There was three or four of them. The

smiling bomb from Canada to Los Angeles

that time in 2000. So one of them was

myself partner and uh dealing with FBI

and DA but you know now 911

become so September 11 I'm in a cell

with one of the terrorist but he was not

uh convicted yet he was only arrested so

it's a 2000 and 2001 so he got arrested

in Los Angeles bombing and bringing a

prison so he become self partner with

First flight hit the twin tower. I'm in

the seventh floor. My room cell is

toward the Freedom Tower. You can see

both buildings, Hudson River, Manhattan,

and Brooklyn. I'm in Brooklyn jail. So

this now the first flight hit. It's a

morning 8:45 if I don't make mistake,

Tuesday. And this guy called me in a

prison. I used to be known Amir. Same

way it's nickname of the the wanted guy

Shamir. I choose that name because Amir

is kind of in Arabic. It's a leader.

So, so leader of believers. So now I'm

in a prison known prison name Amir. He

jumps on the bing band and happy God is

a great Allahbar. Allah Akbar. This is

from my leader. He's happy now. And I'm

looking, I'm a former KLA member. I'm a

very patriotic to United State. United I

was 78 days bombing US Yugoslavia. Now

I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a

prison or not, it's my mixed feeling.

How can be this human happy when I'm die

hard? I'm a Muslim, but I'm also die

hard patriotic. I love the country US.

So what I do and I tell him habibi come

on he said this is from my leader and

he's continued dancing we watch in the

first uh plan hit now it's coming the

second

flight in the second tower I witness

that because when I give some interview

I see the questions all this conspiracy

look it's BS I don't care how people

think I saw with my own eyes the second

flight I don't care what people think I

care what I see you can tell me Oh no,

it's not true. It's true. I saw the

flight. What's behind is not my problem.

What's behind but I know terror attack

was I saw the second flight. So now I'm

staying with him in a cell. Next day it

coming from FBI and CIA counterterrorism

unit. Complete institution is shut down.

I'm watching people jumping from the

tower. The both towers collapse. I'm

seeing all day. It's uh not the way you

see in the movie. I'm witnessing with my

own eyes. Regardless if I'm in prison,

but I'm still my heart now. Now what I'm

going to do, how I can pay back. They

start bringing lot of terrorist. The

first day in my life I met the

counterterrorism unit from FBI and CIA.

They came to speak to me. It was

September 12th, 2001. They came to speak

to you September 12th and the very next

day. So next day. Mhm. So this is how I

start myself to pay back to the US. I

said, you know what? If I get in prison

killed by helping government, I don't

care because I know I'm doing good. I

don't care how they're going to say, oh,

somebody was uh killed because it was

informal. No, no. Me, I was looking my

side. My side was I'm I want to be clean

to the Americans. I don't care how about

terrorists and Muslims look me. It's my

point was American side. They came and

sit down with me first day. This is how

my journey started with the CIA. From

that first day and then the first name

of the CIA ever spoke Sean Lind after

second day meeting with the FBI rings.

I'm walking they open the common area in

seventh floor. I'm walking with one of

the Taliban

member in a prison and uh they call in

my number

54820053 and I'm looking to corrections

officer over there quiet in a prison but

the still debris and burning of the twin

towers is there because my cell I was in

J71 J71 is pointed straight my window to

the twin tower only Hudson River

separates it's very close view you can

see it

And I'm going to the correction officer.

He's saying uh uh somebody wants to talk

to you. I said, "Okay." I go in the

council's office like a legal phone

call. He said, "Your attorney because

you have right to talk to the attorney."

And this is how I introduced. My name is

Sean Lind. I'm calling you from a CIA.

This is the clear conversation. We need

your help. Are you willing to help us? I

said, "Anything I can do from today, I

will do it." Right off the bat, he

revealed no question. nothing regardless

what how I felt that moment when my

child was with me. I forgot everything.

I said you know what I am going to help

the US intelligence agency. No problem.

And I tell them anytime from today you

can count on me and I start dealing.

They start bringing a lot of terrorists

from the streets. They're picking up all

kind of people from the street bringing

in prison. You know it was a that time

CIA was not prepared. The US agency was

not prepared for the 9/11. It's not

regardless how much they say. Look,

Sean, I read in a prison. I will mention

the name. Maybe you even met the guy.

The best ever two books I read was

Imperial and Anonymous. Two of these

book he was uh Mike Shyer. He was in Bin

Laden's unit 25 years investigating bin

Laden for 25 years CI agent. I read both

of his book the best books in a prison.

I read all kind of book. I read the book

of the George Tenant and that's the time

when I start it was George Tenanton

chief of the CIA and the chief of

operation was James Pavit running the

agency head of the CIA was George

Tenanton James Pavit was uh uh running

in the uh

field agency. So this is what my first

step with the CIA in September 12, 2001.

What did he tell you after after he

revealed that he was CIA that he wanted

you to work with them? What did he say?

He said, "We need your help. I know you

Albanian. I know you've been through

with federal prison with prosecutors. We

not like them. We're different than

them. When we say things, we do what?"

And uh now we're gonna bring a lot of

people. We're going to need to find out

who's who. Yeah. Because Sean in a

prison when you're in the beginning, you

speak right away because you need help

and you like you're in the middle of

ocean and you drowning and you see shark

and you think shark going to help you

because you're drowning. So in a prison

when you get arrested, you don't know

the uh laws. You trust people and you

tell them what's going on. So that's how

I got to come out through the lot of

al-Qaeda members, lot of people that was

fin supporting al-Qaeda given the money.

You know, the most dangerous was with

the terror group. Financial is number

one. It's it's not hard to find a foot

soldiers. How much is hard to find

finance? So for the intelligent agency

was important to find out who's

financing them to find out the who's a

foot soldier of al-Qaeda. So foot

soldier is not hard. They brainwash 18,

19 years old, 20 years old, 21, 22. Some

people they have a bad past in the life.

That's how they brainwash them. But

finance they get from higher level

Muslims like business people who wants

to donate charity. So they want to know

that. I start dealing with the CIA for

year and a half. I was in contact always

with agent Sean Lens. So I hope when he

see uh this uh interview he will

remember me. I dealt with him from uh

September uh 2012 to uh 2022 until I was

uh uh transferred designated to p uh

Pennsylvania federal prison. So roughly

2 years I uh dealt with the CIA in that

time.

What was what what what was in it for

you? Did they pay you? No, they was pro

they was promising me they're going to

sh uh cut my sentence and recruit me to

work agent in a uh street after. What

kind of stuff were you revealing to them

while inside prison?

I revealed a lot of the guys. For

example, there was al-Qaeda supporters

al-Qaeda financer. I met with a guy who

met bin bin laden after 911. So I met

with a group of Lakawana 6. They met

with bin Laden after 9/11. So I was with

them. I was with Yemeni group. I was

with uh one of the his member who was

kidnapped from the in the Ajati coast

early 80s. I don't know if you remember

when the TWW uh uh pilot was shot in a

hijacking his member, he was with me. So

it was a missing uh body of the uh

Israeli soldier and they was trying to

uh get the information but it was

something very interesting Sean uh CIA

uh was interesting to get information

from informers even people admitted in

things I'm going to give you a little

small detail in a short points you know

in Islam for example if you get

arrested, you can even say you're not no

more Muslim. They train them and uh it's

that's only one thing I don't like in

religion. If you get arrested, you give

up all the information and then you say

to the agency, okay, I can be with you,

you know, and then you lie. Then you go

in a street you become again terrorist

group in a terror members you know you

never get burned with terrorist group

even today I give you example myself

we're going to come to the points how I

was offered from ISIS to become leader

of ISIS not a foot soldier a leader of

ISIS even being somebody suspicious if I

was a CIA spy they called me I spoke

with very high ranking ISIS leader. Wow.

We'll get to that. We'll get to that.

It's a more to the story. Yeah. There's

a lot more to the story. And so when

they would bring these guys into prison,

how would you know who to target? Oh, I

was a mazim. They coming, we talking, we

eating, we praying together, we're

reading Quran together. So now I'm

picking. They would tell me, for

example, I would say one name now just

his last name, Sarah. He was a uh a

Hamas lead member. So he he told me,

"I'm not al-Qaeda member, brother. I'm

Hamas

member." So he never admitted to the

government anything. But he was telling

me because we want to know who's member

of al-Qaeda in a group in a prison who

member of Hamas or his Shia who's a who

follow who's the first three generation

of Prophet Muhammad peace be in him. So

I found out I tried to find all this

information through communication with

them and that's how I was sharing the

information with the CIA. What other

kind of information were they interested

in? So they would bring everybody in and

then you would figure out which

terrorist group they were associated

with if it's a threat or if it's

innocent. If if he did something or not.

If somebody was really innocent I would

say look my opinion this guy has nothing

to do. He was just uh pick up like a

wrong time wrong place. he has nothing

to do with this and I saw people got

released not just because my opinion but

you know at least they want to you know

how they acting in a prison and if

they're saying something and then the

biggest part when I met with uh uh all

these uh terror groups members I built

my reputation the CIA advised me so it's

they insurance was so I can build my

came among the group Sean these people

they talk if I'm in a prison with them

and they said oh we have a brother Amir

it's very strict Salafi he's willing to

fight against us if he come out from the

prison he going to be number one

mujahadin you believe or

not 98 to 99% of the correction officers

in a prison they all used to think I'm

going to be future leader of al-qaeda

from the prison when I come out but they

didn't know I was a in the CIA side in

the government side my bear was up to

here I learn Quran I read Arabic right I

learn for at least four months Arabic I

become imam in prison among terror group

me why Caucasian to lead terror groups

you have to be step off head to know the

Islam more than them especially

one day know I to the people who was

interest to the CIA I used to tell them

look they are they kidnapped my daughter

I took this blame I was not uh doing

this crime I was not involved you know a

lot of the fanatics when you tell them

you got arrested coming from Pakistan

they don't think you was coming because

you was involved from drugs they think

you was involved with al-Qaeda so right

away the trust came out for me to become

very powerful in a prison. I was strong

in a prison community and that's how CIA

advised me build your reputation in

prison so when you come out you can be

straight inside of al-Qaeda high ranking

uh position. So there was a long play

right from the get-go. Yes sir. It

wasn't just sort through these guys

figure out who they are associated with.

It was building your reputation almost

eight years almost

decade and uh learning Islam a lot like

I can freely sit uh and debate with any

Islamic scholar I'm good knowledgeable

any Islamic scholar I can talk about

religion no different from al-qaeda

members not foot soldiers we talking

high ranking al-qaeda that's how they

accept me by testing me how much I what

kind of knowledge I have in

religion. Then it came out very easy

using my family how they hold my trial

uh like a kidnapping.

How long were you working for the CIA

inside of prison?

from 200 September 12, 2001 to uh the

day I was released December and 2007 11

December 2007. All these

years I work with the CIA. I want to be

very clear. I work with the FBI

counterterrorism unit. All the agency

used to come and talk every time.

Anything Sean it was a lot of different

terrorist. It's a lot of different

members. I had

a from the Virginia group. I had the the

Iraqi war there, Ali Timi, Ali Shandia.

All these they are in Florence,

Colorado. All these group they was

getting arrested after the war in Iraq.

So it's not like just little bit Mickey

Mouse. It was a lot of groups of people,

lot of dangerous people. So I was always

uh among the most dangerous groups of

the uh terrorist. It's not like uh

something small, not like a foot soldier

like Lacawana 6 or uh the the I'm going

to come back to the story in 2016 when I

met the leader of uh al-Qaeda in a group

of five in the New York they got

arrested but we don't want to change the

uh subject from this part to the end of

the subject you know the story because

we're going to come out I as the leader

you will never believe what he told me

how he he wants to go become a leader of

ISIS was the reason why he wants to

become leader and why he wants to become

ISIS member. I I was in shock what he

tell me. I was in shock. We we talking

in a prison where he told me why he

wants to become ISIS member. Why? He

wants to have a woman. He never had

woman in his life. He wants to go go get

those slaves over there, those uh Yazidi

and uh take hostage of woman in Syria.

This is the only reason he become a uh

jihadist. That's it. Crazy. It's not for

religion. It's against religion.

Absolutely. And I can show it to you.

He's is now in prison in in a federal

prison. I said, "Brother, are you crazy?

You telling me you want to say fight

sake of God because you never had a

woman. I can date woman anytime you

want. You in America. He's a born

American. It's not a convert. He's born

US and he wants to become a ISIS member.

He's a ring leader of one of the five of

the group. He said because he wants to

have a girlfriend. He wants to have a

slave. He wants to have three, four

wife, five wives over

there. I know the guy who uh shot

another

jihadist just to take his wife. That's

not Islam. We're going to come to the

points you will never believe it. People

are not going to they're going to say

this is crazy. This is like you want a

prostitute. You don't want to fight sake

of God. This is how they brainwashed

them.

Wow. Did you ever feel like you were

compromised in prison? Like anybody was

on to you working for the CIA? Oh, look

at I will tell you this. I'm sitting in

a yard. I have a lot of tattoos in arms

and stuff. I have AK-47. And I have a I

have a tattoo rided from his Bulam

member is handwriting and I'm sitting in

a yard with a tank top and one of the

informers Albanian. He asked me what do

you have here? I have a AK-47 and it

says God is a great and I said that's

Bin Lad's name but he doesn't know

Arabic. In 24 hours son FBI come in my

uh in a federal prison. Remember not all

the agency used to know I have I'm a

connected to the CIA you know it's very

strict control they don't share the

information it's not like a lot of times

I was uh uh informs used to uh give

information about me think uh giving

information to the government uh I'm a

terrorist I'm a very fanatic but I was

linked to CIA you know I was never

fanatic but people. I was interviewed

from FBI in prison. I was interviewed

from DA in prison few times from the FBI

and this guy in the morning they calling

go RBNB meaning you're going to visit

the room and I didn't have no visit and

when I walk in to a VI

agents I'm sitting down my name is so

and so we want to know uh what kind of

tattoos you have in your body. They put

me in a strip room naked. They look my

tattoo. They're taking picture of my

tattoo. Can you tell me what you have? I

said this is God is great. This another

one I bear witness there is no god but

Allah. And another part here I have a

Islamist religion of peace in Arabic

sign of peace. All this thing they

taking picture and I laugh I started

laughing with FBI. I said I'm sorry sir

we keeping between us informer Antoine

give you yesterday information I was in

the yard working out he asked me about

this don't dependent with this informer

and I told him straight up I work for

CIA straight in a prison I told him the

FBI if you don't believe call so and

so and then they never came back they

said I'm sorry if you are like that we

apologize

They walk away. They took him forward

from the prison right away because they

thought if I go back in the prison I

will stab him or something because I'm a

leader to Muslim community in a prison.

Sean when I was a leader of Muslims I

used to have a bodyguards I used to have

Muslims. It was 150 Muslims. If I was

given order something to do in prison I

couldn't put the prison shut down

completely. They was going to do my uh

whatever I was telling to do. Mhm. It

was a time I had to prove myself I'm a

good Muslim. I had to beat somebody a

few times, not once. Two times I used to

beat a Muslim. One Pakistani Muslim, one

Libanese Muslim because they had the

problem with a gang group. Now gangs,

not to stab them. I was ordered to prove

myself. I'm a good jihadist. I had to go

beat them in a bathroom. I had to beat

them. One was bleeding. So I can prove

myself. I'm a fanatic. I'm a

sympathizer. I'm a jihadist. So, I had

to do that. And the CIA knew it. FBI

knew it. I did that. SIS the best ever

in federal prison. I tell you this, he

he has a your past 100% because he was

with the Navy and

Marines, Lieutenant Lion, Lions, the

best ever man of American deal in my

life. Lieutenant Lion, I hope you hear

that. He was the best man. He knew it.

Everything what I was doing with CIA.

Every connection, every conversation I

needed, I was going through him. Every

special things I was needing to do,

special visit with my family, he was

just telling me, "Blood him, when you

need to do that, next week I do it for

you." That was the best ever uh from

American agency who treat me good.

That's the lieutenant

lion in FCI Alenwood penitentiary.

Let's take a quick break. When we come

back, we'll talk about what what

happened after prison.

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helixleep.com/srs. All right, Blair,

we're back from the break and we're did

we're you're getting out of prison now.

We're getting ready to go and I feel

like we did the whole feel like that was

a whole interview in itself now. Now we

get into the real meat. But uh I am

curious. I mean, what was what does the

agency think that now that you're out

talking about this stuff with a

documentary and have you had any contact

with them?

I had one time

uh after I got

my granted refugee I mean the status

from the

immigration phone call for 2 minutes

private saying like you don't have to

worry too much now about documentaries

and stuff just enjoy your life you know

keep yourself low

profile and and here you are

look at uh Sean on I'll be very honest

if I had to go from beginning I swear to

God I would do it from beginning it just

the mistake of the

agency they promise you they promise you

the biggest problem I want to highlight

this the biggest problem at the US

government when you have a source like

me for example Mhm.

give a chance to have somebody if I have

a question because if I deal with the

agent I dealt for a year and a half if

he make a mistake I have no where to

complain or to ask questions everything

has to go through one Mhm.

the best intelligent. You have to have

another second source, you know, to see

what's going on. If the agents make a

mistake, because I know agent, I was not

perfect, John. I mean, I'm sorry, Sean.

I was not perfect, but I was the

best. When you said why, and people

wants to know why the best. Look, I was

not Afghani. I was not Iraqi. I was not

Syrian. I was not Jordanian. I was not

none of this. But I came out to operate

all of these

places. I went I believe strongly if CIA

was still going on to support me and

work. I believe strongly I will go meet

the bin Laden. Not that I want it. He

will ask to meet with

me because I came out to meet very high

ranking leaders and you know in

terrorism this is how they go. The way

they got my record from the people in

the prison families my name that's how

they go oh you know what the Amir let's

let me see what he is if we want to make

him a leader in Balkan to recruit uh

al-Qaeda members or how we can use

that's how terrorist work they desperate

to have somebody like me in a group it's

a white Caucasian somebody who have a

skills to pass any airport. Sean,

believe it or not, if you tell me today,

can you go in this country? I promise

you, in one week, I can go in any

country you point. Today, the way I'm

exposed, if you tell me if you can

travel to any country, you said one

week, 10 days, I will be in the country

you say. I have no problem. I'm not

young, but I still my head works. Mhm. I

can do still

things.

And the government agencies sometimes

they have a issue among theelves sharing

the

information. We're going to come to the

point there was a issue with them.

They're trying to recruit me again after

I came in US in

2015. But they said a lot of agency has

to be in a loop. You know I was not

exposed yet. The biggest problem, the

biggest mistake they make with New York

Times. When president say this lot of

fake news, trust me, it's a lot of fake

news. Why? Because New York Times put me

in the first page. I was arrested for

jumping something. I was never ever Sean

arrested in that. When they arrest me, I

don't want to come to the story if this

is like to the ends of the story. When

they arrest me in

2016, it was over 50 agents arresting

me. Bin Laden didn't have that kind of

agents. Helicopter with the sniper was

in top of my car wash arresting me. And

when they arrest me, I'm reading the

names of the agents. They all from New

Jersey, not from New York. But in

meantime, Sean, I'm meeting with head of

the intelligent of New York, John

Miller. I was meeting with him like with

you, with him and five of his workers in

my lawyer's office. Why would you burn

somebody who's meeting with John Miller?

Mhm.

Well, I mean, I think they keep that

tight to the vest because the more

people that know, the the higher the

chance that it leaks.

No, I think it's more than that. Yeah.

Really? What do you think it is? It's,

you know, agents agents they have one

problem. They like to cover each other.

Even if you're wrong, they want to

cover. Because when I give information,

Sean, I want to be very clear. It's I

didn't talk about

this when the al-Qaeda told me not to be

in a blue area in Pakistan. I updated to

CIA. Sean, I can tell you I was

communicating

worldnews.com. I had my code and

everything. And when I update CIA, I

said, "Look, please tell them if because

it was in blue area a lot of Americans.

I see because I was there. I watched you

know them. They don't know who I am, but

I know them. I can tell when it's

supposed to if it's a American agent or

not. Like you for example, I can tell

why you in that hotel. When I tell them

please share this information because

it's in a blue area. They're trying to

send suicide bomber. Believe it or not,

less than I think 24 hours there was a

suicide bomber and killed all of them.

And he failed to update that. when I

came uh to uh provide the information

from the field one back in the Balkans

from the Pakistan he said [ __ ] I [ __ ]

her up I said why Chris I failed here he

couldn't update it that's why all those

people got

killed I was not spying in a in an agent

but if he make a mistake he should say

you know what I'm sorry I was late I

couldn't update provide update to the

CIA this information. I did update it

from over there right away. I said,

"Look at it's going to be tomorrow after

tomorrow suicide bomb in this area and

there was suicide bomb and I think four

or five Americans got

killed. So I don't want a

credit. I don't want nothing. I didn't

work this job because I can make money.

I make money in normal life." Mhm. He

just respect me. Say, you know what?

Let's help him. Why he got to go through

the process of immigration when he was

working for us? I didn't want it to be

hero. I don't want to have a medal

honor. But at least you know I did that.

I have my family here. Who wants to do

this dangerous job? It's very hard

especially when they start hearing this

story. Look, while I talk to you, I know

who works for the CIA today from my

country. I I found out in my way it's

nothing. It's piece of garbage. He

doesn't even know nothing. So you cannot

have somebody in charge like that person

for example they take him to train him

they train me too I receive training too

I was trained from CIA I don't hide that

you know I'm capable to do anything you

tell me you want to do bomb I can do the

bomb is no problem and do you think

al-Qaeda don't want a member like me

even I'm exposed today they will take me

tomorrow even if I'm exposed until this

moment they will still take me they want

a man like me but why you want to avoid

to have to CIA somebody who can help me.

I couldn't translate thing. I couldn't

even decode the phone conversation. I

know how they communicate the uh uh

terrorist. So why you want to like make

and look it's it's a crazy we we talking

like it's very interesting part. I have

I had the sources I was receiving

information from inside of the job of

the CIA just

recently. Look at who I am. I received a

lot of crazy stuff from the CIA in

Virginia. We talking from the base. How

what CIA thought told people about me?

CIA tried to spread a rumor very bad

about me. It's not to be trusted. How

can I not be trusted? You burn

me. And then they said, "Oh, we cannot."

One of them said, "We we not denying,

but we not uh accepting." You know, hey,

I'm coming. I I show you the picture

with the Stinger missile. You think in

US soil you show that picture and you

don't get indicted from the federal

prosecutor in heartbeat, but I was a CIA

spy. I And I don't regret that. Never.

To the day I die, I'm proud what I did.

And I told my kids if I had to do again,

I would do it again. But please treat

me, man. It's I deserve to be treated,

you know. Tell him, "Look, judge, this

man doesn't need to be in immigration

court. It's our man. It's not easy to it

cost money to train somebody like me. It

cost Hey, agent came from the from here

to train me overseas. I was in a

training camp from the agent from US,

you know. So you spending all this money

and losing the source like that. Come

on. It's not normal. We'll get to go

ahead. We'll get to it. But I mean, were

they paying you? Yeah, they was paying

me. They were paying you? Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. So it was a business

transaction that you expected the

maximum the the highest amount I did

receive one time over 40 grand one shot

40 grand cash

and so I guess what I'm saying is you

are expecting more from them than just

the payment just the business

arrangement no not the payment I was

never accepting no more money just to

tell to tell the immigration judge look

he deserve to be with his family here he

did for his family he has a wife born

and raised here. Every country in the

world, Sean, they give a chance to

somebody. I did mistakes in the past.

I'm not clean. I'm not saying. But I

deserve to have a second chance to be

with my family. I don't need to be

arrested in a 2016 and expose myself.

Mhm. They couldn't be low profile, give

him his papers back and let him enjoy

his life here. He deserve, he worked for

us. He put his life in a dangers to

protect us, to save our country. So why

we don't go and just give a just

signature paper. I didn't ask for

anything. Just a paper tell to the judge

he deserve to be here. Let him be out

with his family. I was $50,000 bomb. 50

grand here for 5 years. And they

investigate. Sean I they recruit a woman

who clean my room my house I'm sorry

overseas and give her paper today. They

brought her from overseas. She was

cleaning my uh house in in the city I

used to I was born. I was alone. I was

paying her. I feel bad. Family member

just what she tell them. I have a

weapons. CIA knew it. I love weapons. I

had the trucks. This is this room. It's

nothing. It was four times five times

bigger than this. Full of ton of

weapons. But we pulled with the CIA from

bad guys from al-Qaeda members. Mhm. It

was not my weapons. Was the initial

arrange Well, let's we'll get into this.

Let's let's get into the interview

because I think maybe some clarity will

come to me on on that. But so, how did

you get out of prison?

First time or second time? First time. I

got I finished my time. You finished

your time? Completed my time. 8 years.

And so 8 years and 4 months. Just to

backtrack the I thought that they had

initi they had contacted you again to

infiltrate the terrorist networks but

that was that was the long game. They

wanted to they wanted to start with you

in prison for a longer so I can be in

this. Yes. Okay. So you get out of

prison. What happens then? I'm going to

the US embassy in uh

2008 walking

in asking because before I got out of

prison I want to just so you can be

clear two times I was interviewed from

DoD Department of Defense 2 months

before I got from the prison they tell

me when you get back home you want to

work for us because maybe you're going

to look good if they deport you I said

yeah no problem and what's going to be

exchange we'll bring you back When we

promise you, we do it. We're not

federal. This is always their word. When

we promise you, we're not a federal

prosecutor. CIA, keep the words. This is

what they tell me. They promise me

they're going to be bring me back. Help

me. They said you are going to be safe

for rest of your

life. You're just going to keep your

mouth shut. Not to expose anything. I

couldn't keep my mouth shut if I'm if

you left me in the middle of

nowhere. I get interview. I'm going back

to US embassy in Macedonia, walking in

meeting Mr. Devon, the best ever CIA

agent I met. If he was in uh still

working with me, I will be maybe more

happy. And I hope you hear that. Mr.

Devon, he's the one who I started

working with them. I did polygraph test.

I signed the contract agreement,

everything at the embassy. And they tell

me from today you work for

CIA. You have a paycheck. You have all

expensive paid all the travels whatever

you're going to need it we are here to

support you all you need we need it now

you to collect information to see if you

cannot come up to al-Qaeda we are

interested to know if is bin Laden alive

or dead and if you work yourself in a

circle of al-Qaeda we'll be very happy

and we're going to help you and I said I

have no problem they helped me they was

giving me money no question they paid my

vacation for my wife and kids in Turkey

and all these things. It's no problem.

And even today, even today, I am very

grateful to the immigration. They

allowed me to stay. Today, I'm clean

with the laws. I have no issues with the

laws. Absolutely. I'm like normal like

it just the problem. I cannot travel

overseas. They don't give me no document

to travel overseas. I can be here enjoy

my life. I'm working, paying taxes,

everything. But it's still not enough.

It couldn't be you know right path my

wife is born in race I have right to do

adjustment of status so I can become US

citizen my wife is born here every

country who has a wife citizen they

still can give a chance they don't

deport them my three kids are American

born my family is all American mother

father sisters brother all of them there

was even they passed away they was

American citizen so why you abusing me

why you And I would never go in a media

or documentary, even this documentary,

if they was not going to arrest me in

2016. But they arrest me. I look like a

piece of garbage. You train me. You know

how much skills I have. What do you

want? And I believe I also believe Sean

sometimes maybe you know some different

informers they want to get the credit.

They think maybe oh he going to become

terrorist. Never I commit suicide

myself. I hang myself. I will never go

against the country my kids born. Never

ever. It's

impossible. So maybe informs spread this

rumors to the sources or maybe blame me

can be al-Qaeda member or ISIS member.

Never. Sean again repeat it. I would

never I will hang myself. Never be

al-Qaeda member. No terror group. I have

a beautiful kids born American. Mhm. I

don't go against my family.

So, you get out of prison, you get

deported.

Yes. How? And then you go through

immigration at the Macedonian embassy

where you meet your No, I have nothing

to do with immigration. I'm going to the

Macedonian embassy and meeting with the

CI agents. Okay. In embassy, meeting

with the CIA agents. How did they

contact you? When I go over there, they

put me in one room, small room. I give

my ID. He came down. He said, "Give me a

half hour." He go in office. He said,

"Welcome back. We know who you are." All

the details. He said, "We're going to

have to meet the next week." How did

they initially contact you? Was it a

phone call? No, I went to the myself.

You went there yourself? I went to the

US embassy in Macedonia myself. Mhm. So

to see my rights to come to United

States. Yep. And then they told me, "We

know who you are. Come here." Then they

make a meeting next week with me. We

spent six, seven hours. They said,

"Look, we know what happened with you.

We know what you did in the past. We

know what the prosecutors did, but this

is the best time for you. Everybody

knows here now. You got deported, how

they got arrested, your family, holding

them, this and that is the best time you

to be covered, to work for us, and we

can bring you back." This is my first

step. How I started with the CIA in 2008

field agent. Was there any discussion of

pay at that initial meeting? Payment

payment I had in beginning was uh first

week I started with €400, €700,

€1,200, then uh €2,500 a month and the

whole expenses. And they said we're

going to help you to be with your

family. Nothing more than that. No extra

payment over this. But they said always

we're going to keep you safe. And so

when did you take the polygraph? I think

after a month or two if I don't make a

mistake. My first trip in Pakistan when

I came back just to see if I'm double

agent or just for the CIA. How long did

that take? It's it took a couple hours,

3 hours. I think 2 hours. One polygraph.

One one time. Yes. You passed the first

time? Yes. First time I passed. Right

on. Not a lot of people pass it. I

passed first time and they told me and

they

told look Sean we're going to come to

the stories you would never believe what

I did it and even people they're going

to say what are you lying I don't Sean

in United States if you make a story you

commit perjury you get charged it's a

federal crime I cannot come and say hey

this is who I am or this is what I did I

cannot come and say I was trained to

build a bomb so this way I can show to

terrorist I can build a bomb so if If

the federal prosecutors know that in 2

minutes they will arrest me. I said that

a few times.

Mhm.

So you get recruited, you have the

meeting the next week. What is the next

week that meeting? The next week meeting

uh we signed the contract. It was three

agents, two male and one female. I

remember like today we spend like five

six hours or that day in the embassy and

then they instruct me first they said

build a uh enterprise in your city among

the community and then next trip start

using the phone contacts you had in a

prison. I had her from Yemen, from Saudi

Arabia. I visited I went I was guest to

number one the strongest grand muy of

Saudi. I I was invited. He never knew

what I was spy. I was his guest. I used

the sources from family prisoners from

being in terror charges. That's how I

came out to build my name so good. Like

I didn't even believe there was a time I

didn't even believe they trust me so

much. I said to

myself if I'm a sick or liar or

something how come they they invite me

so much? But I found out from the

people. I used to use sources you know

just to build my reputation they can

bring me in. And so what did the

training involved?

Training. You said you received training

with the CIA. Yes. for first I was uh

how to communicate with people language

skills and um they advise me how uh to

do uh weapons uh deal in case so this

way if the al-Qaeda try test you or if

you need to pull some weapons they teach

me how to do this to like we pulled lot

of bombs and explosives from bad pe guys

hands in the Kosovo in Albania too so I

took with the trucks, all the uh

explosive TNT, C4, you name it. Rocket

launchers, Stingers, all of them. And

all with my hands. When the CIA took

them, they took like in a package like

all they when they bring me trucks, CIA

brought me trucks. They trucks, I loaded

the truck myself with my people, you

know, you have to take the detectors and

all this, you know, so not to explode.

So I took one by one all the detectors,

all the explosive we have mines,

landmines, all this stuff, put it in a

truck and the CA took it and the

destroyer. And so how long was the

training?

It was a

like like I can tell you easy like three

four months you can put always training

when I meet with them like every uh

first week second week 8 hours 9 hours 8

hours it was a time three days we didn't

never come out from the place with the

CIA 3 days. Mhm. sleep day and

night how to deal, how to communicate,

how to use the weapons. Three days never

come out from the place with the CIA

with three agents and me. Where was it?

Where? In Macedonia. In Macedonia. Yes.

They used to have a safe houses

everywhere. Then they used the bone

steel in the military base in Kosovo.

And so you get recruited in Macedonia, I

guess.

You go through the training, they tell

you, they want you to infiltrate

al-Qaeda specifically. Yes. And they

tell you to do it through your previous

contacts in prison and just to grow your

network even wider. Yes, sir. So, who's

the first person that you reached out

to? The first person I was uh uh

sentenced 25 years or 30 years in a

federal prison for supporting al-Qaeda.

His name is Salim. He was in prison. He

introduced me in his family in Pakistan.

And what did you ask him? Oh, I told him

when I come out from the prison, I'm

going to join brothers. The everybody

knew it. When I come out from the

prison, all the fanatic, all the

terrorist knew it. The first day they're

going to deport me. I'm going to go be

joined jihadist. The all of

them. And who did he connect you with?

with uh first he took me his brother to

somebody and that's how he started with

Beta Massud the ring leader of al-Qaeda

in Pakistan. So right off the bat it's a

second time. Second time. Yes. And what

would these meetings be like? For when I

went when I meet him when I give all to

them they took all my clothes off. They

took me those with those motorcycles.

They changed the car. They played. Look,

I want to say this. or people can know

they I know sometimes they don't trust

easy but they they use word oh we we're

going to put you in a trunk because if

the checkpoint is police we are from

here local so if they see you foreigner

we're going to give them more excuse to

question us and to check us the

Pakistani agency so I said okay they put

me in the trunk of the car for a few

hours I was riding inside of the trunk I

didn't see nothing roughly roads and

whatever you know then when they put me

inside I met Abu Muhammad al- Masri the

he's still wanted he's still in his life

because I was reading one of the books

recently for Abu Ali Sufyan he did it he

was a former CIA for 10 15 years after

911 he wrote the book and I see his

picture the one I was meeting with him

he put in a book he still wanted so he

was there it was another jihadist from

Bos uh Egyptian but born in 14 in a

Bosnia. He speak Bosnian. So when he

speaks I speak Bosnian too. So when he

talk and then he tell me brother you

still want to be with brothers. I said

alhamdulillah that's why I'm here for

and then he hugged me and he said to

introduce me he never introduced my name

to nobody only Amir or Abu

Medina in so not to be known where I'm

coming from. So Amir or Abu Medina is

our new mujahadin with us. Wow. Were you

nervous at all? I mean did not at all

because I had the strong support only

nervous. I was just afraid not to be

leaked. So then I get killed. And how

would you communicate back to the CIA?

Worldnewro.com. I tell you here is I

give you the detail. CIA never knew it

when I was in the field.

Sean, if I had to update quick

something, I used to call my wife and

talk to her in Albanian and she was

updating. But this is what I broke. This

is where I make a mistake because I was

told nobody can know this. But my wife

knew it. I told my wife, Sean, I told I

told my wife because I thought if I get

killed, they're going to think I got

killed in a drug dealing or something,

you know, at least somebody to know I'm

working for the government, you know, so

they can be one day proud. Look, my

husband got killed working for CIA, not

being drug dealer. So, this is the

reason I told my wife. So, my kids grow

up, they don't want to uh hear, oh, my

dad got killed in a drug dealing

somewhere in Pakistan or overseas. But

to be proud, my dad was killed because

he was working for our agency to protect

us to keep us safe. So this is why I

told my wife and then when I need to

update it, I give a quote to her world

newswr.com and I have all those numbers

to click it and then she was writing

whatever I tell her in Albanian because

over there was more easy somebody to spy

on me if it's a different language in

Albanian. It was not Albanian. Nobody

was Albanian over there. in al-Qaeda at

that time I was now yes but that time

was nobody Albanian only me so I was

feeling safe and I was telling my wife

okay tell them this tell them that and

then she was going computer and updated

CIA never knew it my wife is updating

from New York City they always knew it

I'm updating from

somewhere those internet cafes and stuff

like that but I did it also in internet

cafes I did update the CIA and I used to

look around where it's poor

neighborhoods I used to go like I'm

looking some Quranic stuff and then I'm

going to my website then I'm deleting

complete and I'm coming out but I was

always careful because you know when

when I first time I give oath I stay I

think 3 4 days if I don't make mistake

in al-qaeda camp then after 4 days we I

went back and stay in a guest house so I

had a chance to

update there was like there was not

al-qaeda sean al-qaeda rec recruit me

the way I saw They thought I was going

to be leader to recruit foreigners in

Balkans. Mhm. This is was the goal, you

know, not me to be like a foot soldier

the way you saw in a Iraq throwing a RPG

and stuff like that. They was not

looking me like that. They was looking

me like to be high ranking al-Qaeda.

Mhm. So there was this the interest of

al-Qaeda in me and this is was the best

opportunity for CIA, you know, to have

me like that.

And so what was it inside? How would

world newsws.com work? I will show it to

you uh if you want to later from my

phone. It was very like you go and you

click in world news comes news then you

have in a site log in you don't think if

you don't know the website and then you

have a log in when you go log in it it

comes a little small place you put your

code your numbers 50 my I had a numbers

I don't want to mention that I don't

want to you know something exposed is

not good and I was clicking that again

was giving me another code and then It

was open me and those communication you

see writing typing and then logging out

and dis uh disappear everything another

option I had I used to have some white

papers somewhere when I travel and if I

need to write it I will be write it if

they stop me I couldn't put that white

paper in a wall and melts everything and

you don't see nothing no more you just

put the uh white paper yeah everything

it would they be able to give send you

traffic through worldnose.com. Yes. And

they used I used to have also GPS some

places when I used to be in a weapons or

if I was in danger or if I was tracing

something or I want to buy something, I

used to uh you know click it and they

used to know when I what button I click

it and they know where I am the

location. So it's connected. It was a

small piece like that. A beacon. Yeah.

What did it look like? It's like a

yellow and black. It's you don't talk.

You just It's a tracing device. Yeah.

And uh has those buttons. If you if I

was in a dangerous, I will put click it

three times and they will try to help me

if I'm in a dangerous situation. So if

it's something for location, I used to

just click one. If it's for weapons,

it's two times only three times. I it

was a piece to click it. If I was in a

danger, so I needed help. I It never

happened. So I never needed I was never

in a situation dangerous. Wow. That's

that's surprising. That's surprising.

And so you Okay, so let's go let's go

back again. So you get the training, you

meet with the head of al-Qaeda in al in

Pakistan or one of the top guys in

al-Qaeda in Pakistan. And the whole

premise of all of this was they wanted

you to set up a new cell of al-Qaeda

where you're from. Become a leader. And

become a leader. Yes, sir. Become a

leader of al-Qaeda for Balkan. What did

they want that cell of al-Qaeda to do in

the Balkans? So to see if it's going to

be threat, if it's a threat to US

troops. If it's threat to somewhere, if

it's threat, because it was planned.

We're going to come. It was a plan. They

thought I'm coming here to

attack with few guys. For example, I

have a

today's now we saying they are our

friends uh like a new leader but I know

somebody was in a group you have in a

picture he was in prison with me got

deported. He would never ever be pro-

US. Never. And I'm I was close to him

like my brother and I know him like if

he if he can nuke our us he will nuke

today but maybe today they think is a uh

now become a good friend is a freedom

fighter of Syria. is not he's a leader

of uh uh freedom fighters in Syria now

but he was al-Qaeda member he become

ISIS member and I I used to we're going

to come to the point I used to

communicate live from New York City FBI

was telling me to communicate with them

in 2015 16 17 no not 17 I'm sorry 2014

15 16 I was communicating live I spoke

to leader of ISIS from New York City Abu

Omar al- Shashani live like the way with

you but through the uh uh uh signal I

was talking he begged me and I told the

FBI look tonight 10:00 I'm going to talk

to them and I give the number and uh

they they hear that they see it they

have we talk in 2015 he said please

brother come to us we'll give you

anything you want we need you here this

ISIS

wow They taught you how to make bombs.

Absolutely. What kind of bombings? With

TNTC4, all kind of explosive. I can do

uh uh with pressure cooking things, all

those, you know, homemade stuff. Mhm. So

everything I can do anything you you

name it, I can do it. I'm a good in the

guns. I'm a good with the weapons. I'm

very good. I I can tell you I I use I

shot with you name it all the US

military weapons. You name it, I shot

with every one of them. Snipers, RPG,

it's a piece of cake. You know, those

kind of weapons is nothing to me. You

know, I'm like that. And I love the

guns. So, it's compromise in both

things. Training that me and in my

nature, I love them. I cannot leave no

guns. And so your training was building

networks, surveillance, counter

surveillance, how to make deals, how to

make bombs, weapons training,

communications training. Do you want me

to give you one specific one time when

we was training in when we was with

agents in the field with the CIA, they

throw me somewhere in the middle of

crowded community and they want to maybe

three four cars of CIA to follow me with

their sources if they're going to catch

me. You never believe. Whole day they

watch me, they couldn't catch me. Whole

day they following me. You want me to

tell you what I did? Second quick

uh plan of me. I went in a mosque. Now

they know me. That day I was with

tactical clothes with a 511 black. So

now CIA agents they following me. They

see me. When I came from the uh truck uh

pickup truck, they know me. Uh blaring

was with tactical and I'm walking in a

mosque. Now they're waiting for me where

I'm going to go. What I did is Sean I

went you know in a mosque sometimes you

have those gabas you can wear so you can

be pray and clean and the scarf and

everything. And now all the agents this

is how they smart 10 or 15 of them. I

don't want to you know insult them. So

now they all waiting how I'm going to

come out you know with the black

clothes. I wear all the white clothes. I

took a scarf, you know, everything and I

walked out and all day I walk away from

them. They couldn't find me. In the

evening when we was a place to meet,

they all watching me. What? They're

going to catch me. They couldn't find me

nowhere. I'm just knocking to the window

and they got stuck.

Oh man. This is this is the trainer they

had. And then when I told them now when

I knock the window I'm knocking them

with a black claws. They said please

tell us right away how you come out from

that location. And I put the you know

those clothes they become like that. And

I pull from out inside of my shirt scarf

and everything. I said this sir [ __ ]

told me how you thought you going to

wear this so quick because I thought you

guys going to watch me with a black

claws. Did you was uh our training was

you know if you're going to catch me.

Yes. So this is my skills. So I need to

do whatever it's good for you not to

catch me. This is what I did.

Maybe you should be training them. I

think so. I tell you too. I think so. I

should train them. Who would have

thought? They would have never thought

of a change of clothes.

When we're going to pull the weapons,

I'm going to come to the point when we

pull the weapons. Mhm. They was drunk.

You can't believe we pulling like this

room weapons. Two or three CIA agents.

They're all drunk. They couldn't even

talk. Imagine you make a small mistake.

Whole the city goes in the air. Yeah.

And I did all myself with them in my

city with American

agents and then you don't want to come

to the immigration said let me sign for

him. Come on man. Mhm. Mhm. And so,

okay, let's let's back to al-Qaeda. So,

you meet with al-Qaeda. That's the plan.

They want you to set up a terrorist cell

in the Balkans. They want you to lead

it, be a highranking al-Qaeda official.

And so, where do you go from there? I go

back to Balkans, update all the uh CIA,

whatever I went through. And then

al-Qaeda thing, I'm recruiting. And I

did go I bring a lot of people. A lot of

people was interesting to be al-Qaeda

members but I give information to the

CHA. How would you recruit? Oh, they

very easy. Europeans, Balkans, soon as

they find out you come from Pakistan,

soon as they see one stand, you've been

in Pakistan month and a half, they know

right away why you've been

there. They see money. Uh the

recruiters, they thought al-Qaeda

financing me, but I had the CIA money.

The al-Qaeda thought they helping me in

Balkans people like from the charity

because it's no paper. Mhm. You know

al-Qaeda cannot trace me while I'm

getting the money in Balkans. They

cannot trace me but CIA knew it. I had

all the money from CIA. All the new

bills whatever I needed they was

offering me anything. Here the money

sign here get the money. And so what was

your pitch to recruit to see who who

wants to be al-Qaeda members? And how

would you broach that? How would you

start that conversation? Brother, I I

was uh uh I was meeting our Mujahadin's

brothers over there. Alhamdulillah, you

know, they're doing good. They're

interesting to recruit brothers, you

know, so we can fight this infidels.

They're very easy in that. And

especially in the young generation, it's

like nothing. like really no look at uh

Sean today my country is becoming

breeding ground even like 90% it's uh

pro- US country but two weeks ago group

of seven I know I know the leader we're

going to come up to talk about the

leader his leader was uh killed from the

drone in Assyria and uh just seven

members they went and killed the best

cop in city who was investigating them

in front of the house they should

execute him just two weeks ago in my

country all al-Qaeda

members if if I tell you what kind of

threats I receive in my first interview

before crazy and I come out to even

investigate myself who threat me I

cannot even believe some people that

threat me if I was next to them they

couldn't even look in my face how they

would scare of me but they send me

threat crazy they're going to be hate

me. They're going to chop my head.

They're going to chop my pieces in a in

a uh messages. I don't fear them.

Believe me, I don't fear them. I don't

have Look, I don't have no problem to

die. I'm not going to live 500 years. I

have a little bit to go. At least my

kids know what I'm I'm proud. I have no

problem. I will be hero to my family if

I get killed because I was working for

US government. Because I was protecting

family. America is not in a war with

Islam. One, it's a lie. two is with

Albanians. America is like God for

Albanians. So I'm proud to die for

America. I have no problem. I will be my

people in in Koso. They will consider me

hero. I don't care for fanatics and

radicals. Group of people. I don't care

for them. They're minority. For me it's

important majority. Majority is my

people. How many people did you recruit?

Well, I can easily say it maybe 30 40.

30 40 people in what time span? Easy.

Like nothing. like nothing like a year,

two years in in two years. But we're

talking uh very fanatics like

sympathizers coming to try to support me

maybe two 300. And what would you tell

them the mission is? My mission is to

open the cell so we can fight America

here. I'm a uh I was uh appointed from

al-Qaeda leader. I'm

here to recruit you guys. And who would

you specifically target

those? You can see how they talk in uh

places when they was gathering when we

was in a Muslim communities and I picked

the one the more fanatics when they say

openly we got to kill Americans, we got

to do this, we got to do that. Those

people I will pick all the time. So you

would go you would essentially be friend

go to parties. You you would you would

invite them for party political

conversations

show the guns all the time. I used to

show the guns all the time. Look at what

I have. I'm ready to fight. They used to

see or sometimes I used to record myself

with all kind of weapons and I said,

"Brother, you you want to see something

black and white?" Yeah. Here it is. Look

at the video. Oh [ __ ] brother. You got

all this? Yeah, I got everything you

want. But those are all

destroyed. But I used to buy from

different

fanatics. There's a lot of guns over

there. A lot of all kind of stuff. How

would you communicate back to al-Qaeda

from Albania? When I go over there back

always when I go back. Always in person.

They never use phones. I hear the uh

somebody from here said, "How this guy

communicated with the phone?" Sean, it's

a stupid question, man. There's no such

thing. You can sit down and make a love

story in a uh terror camp and it's no

phones. They change my clothes. They

give me own clothes. So you have no

rights. You cannot you cannot even smell

to have a some uh phones with you. But I

hear the questions they writing. Oh, how

this guy communicated? How he used the

phone? They would never use the phone. I

did not use the phone. I did not use the

phone. I used communicate face to face.

I was in the camp. How often would you

go to the camp and go back?

Like every let's say if I stay one month

in Pakistan or one month in Syria, I go

back stay two three months in Balkans

and then I come

back. I remember I was in al-Qaeda camp

in capital of ISIS where they declare

capital ISIS Raqqa. I was there. You

have a video life and you know how I

come to record it. I said look we need

this video. I need to record for

propaganda to act like I'm a visitor but

also to recruit people and they let me

rec record

that in a camp not outside in a camp.

But this is why I'm saying no this is

where I use the language what the CIA

train me where I need to learn and how

can I use things. So you can tell them

look we need some video to show people

to recruit who I am. If I go tell them

this is who I am and I don't show

nothing, how are they going to believe

you? So you got to show them. So this is

what I used to use skills of the

language so to recruit them and to have

evidence where I am. Okay. And so how

did where did you go from Pakistan? I

used to go back to Balkan, Turkey, fly

Pakistan, Turkey, Turkeyina,

stay couple of months, come back, go to

Syria, go to Jordan, go to Lebanon,

Egypt, Saudi Arabia. Why would you go to

all these places? Oh, everywhere

fanatics, everywhere CIA point somebody.

They used to tell me we want to know so

and so what he think. They used to tell

me who they was interested. They used to

show me pictures on them. And how would

you get yourself in there? How would you

get yourself through the reputation

through the through the imams in my

city? IS know now I did 8 years and 8

years and four months in prison. I was

deported. I was separated from family. I

cannot see no more my family only if

they come back. So now they think this

guy is going to revenge them. He has a a

long history of in military two

different wars. This guy is not going to

play. He's going to go revenge

Americans. So this is the dream for me

to do these things. And so what would

the point of view I guess what I'm

asking is what is the point of you going

from Pakistan to Syria to Saudi Arabia

Iraq to did you go to Yemen? because I

had the sources everywhere. Yemen was my

last trip that day. I was going to meet

Alawaki. Mhm. Before we get there, just

ask it. So, you went from Pakistan in

the Balkans to Syria was your next stop.

Yes. Because I used to have a fanatics

in prison and through them, for example,

I had a Syrian guy I go meet. Okay. In

Syria. So, these were this wasn't a

connection from the Pakistan cell to the

Syrian cell. This was all back from the

contacts that you had made in federal

prison. So you were you were working all

of your contacts from prison to get into

all these 100%. And now did the Pakist

did the

Pakistani al-Qaeda cell know that you

were in Syria? Yes, they did. Yes. What

did you tell them you were doing in

Syria? Meeting the brothers I used to be

in prison. They have a family members to

al-Qaeda

and they had no inclination. No, because

remember only in al-Qaeda can know

somebody who controlled al-Qaeda. Couple

of men, one, two, three people where

they are the cells and stuff. Not all

the al-Qaeda members know everybody.

It's impossible. Never, never happened

that. So let's say Bin Ladino who was uh

running al-Qaeda after him, he used to

know for example who's who where, but

not everybody else. like we have a

Khalik Shake Muhammad bin

Alib Abu Zubed all of them they didn't

know all the members but somebody who

had the control it can be one or two not

all al-Qaeda how did it go in Syria

al-Qaeda yeah when you met him me how I

go I go met the man who used to be it's

in a picture he was like my best brother

I when I saw him with 14 years old 13

years old slave last time in 2015 15 or

14. I got shocked. He show me the slave

from Yazidi lady woman girl. I have a

kids that age. I said come on brother.

This is sad. Our religion allowed us.

You are 45 years old. What do you need

that 13 years old? I hated that. Come

on. I have two

daughters. You're going to take 30. He

show me I I was talking to him life. He

show me the girl 13 years old.

Imagine I go back tell my child my

friend is 45 years old he's having sex

with 13 years old. Come on. This is a

religion. Absolutely not. Absolutely

not. If I can kill I will kill

everybody. I have no

problem.

Religion tells you not to bother them.

Religion teach you you take hostage. You

try to trade or do something, treat them

very good and with dignity, not to rape

them. I know the religion very

well. So they're going off the

religion. It's nothing in Islam what

al-Qaeda does. They're doing nothing. I

tell you, I give you another example.

Jordanian pilot got burned

life. Quran Sharat I very good. Two

years I spend only start the Sharia

law forbids to burn human body forbids

regardless your enemy what he does to

you. If you believe in God you have to

pray make a do a make a prayer to God to

change that thing but not you go

burn. So if you imitate the way they say

you doing the way your enemy do to you

then you becoming just like them. So

you're not following the Islam, Quran

and Sunnah. You going against complete

Islam. So this is what they're doing.

You were inside al-Qaeda training camps

three or four times. What what kind of

training are they doing? What was that?

It's experience like small weapons. Like

for example, one time I remember we went

in one of the places like 3 4 hours

driving from Karach there. It was like

very old uh those old houses, ugly

garbage. We were sleeping 15 20 of us in

the same place like like a sardine

stinking garbage you know and they was

shooting with RPG AKs you know running

showing some skills target all these

things.

What were the conversations like? How to

kill Americans. How to fight

infidel. Every word to fight infidel.

How to kill the infidel. What would you

report back to the CIA? The way I was

seeing that everything the way they're

telling me that's how I the CIA knew I'm

a CIA. So I was telling they want to

kill infidel.

What what specific information did they

want out of the camps?

uh specific for example when uh uh when

I meet uh when I met one this leader uh

who was wanted they asked me I was going

to meet with him they told me you're not

going to meet because maybe suspicious

you are a spy Sean he was wanted and I

went and meet him and I want in a court

against him in court US federal court in

case if he get arrested I can be witness

is against him. I went and meet with

him. He couldn't believe when he saw me

like that with a beard. He hugged me.

Now he tell me you're my brother. Now

you can fight with us. CIA didn't

believe. Another

thing I want to say it. I think you have

this passport or different one. Sean, I

was in Saudi

Arabia. You know when you in Saudi

Arabia, you cannot get visa to go to

Pakistan. Mhm. You have to be resident

of Saudi Arabia or citizen. When I say

to CIA they invite they calling me from

Pakistan to go to to go to Pakistan from

Saudi Arabia. CIA said they trying to

scam me. Maybe you're dealing with the

lowlevel al-Qaeda or sympathizers. It's

impossible you to get the visa in Saudi

Arabia to go Pakistan. Sean I got the

proof. I got the visa in a Pakistani

embassy in Jedha. CIA would never

believe when I update them. I sent

screenshot. They thought it's a fake. I

took a flight from Saudi Arabia straight

to Pakistan. They didn't believe it. I

said, "Sir, I'm in a Pakistan. This is

my passport." When I came back, I went

straight back to back Saudi and

Pakistan. Then from Pakistan, when I go

went back to Balkans, when I saw

documents, they freaked out. How this

Pakistani intelligence felt? two days in

a row I was interrogated

from ISI from Pakistan intelligence in

the embassy two days whole day they

thought or I'm spy or maybe I'm al-Qaeda

member I said look I'm here for business

I'm I'm trying to open a leather factory

business I want to bring leather from

Pakistan to Balkans it's a

BS and I got the visa and I went in

al-Qaeda see I didn't believe even when

I show said how it's possible I said sir

We got to uh communicate diplomatical

way with them. How they give visa like

that? And I got it and I can prove it to

you. I went in Saudi Arabia. I met with

uh Abuif. He was 9 years in prison with

for al-Qaeda in Saudi prison. He was

fighting with Bin Laden. He was die hard

mentor of bin Laden. I met with him in

his house.

CI said how you got the source sir I'm

here with Abu

Safe I'm mentioning his name he was

eight years in Saudi

prison CI don't believe I was his

guest when did you start smuggling

weapons

in from 2000 right away after uh I was

deported and so how would how would that

work so you're build cuz you you didn't

mention that until I thought maybe it

came later and you were smuggling

weapons from all these different

terrorist organizations and getting them

into CIA's hands to destroy them.

Correct. Yes, sir. And so was that was

that part of the initial recruitment or

was the initial recruitment just to

No. After I got recruit, they see how

much

I I'm having skills. I'm capable to do

everything.

like there was uh look when we did one

mission I don't know if I give it to you

we was uh there was a seven agents CI

agents and me when we did one uh uh we

took the weapons and I asked I said

please I want to not to make me feel

good I want to tell me how I did this

job with this

weapon one of the CI agent said I would

trust my mother to be with you the way

you did the

I will never be able to do I don't have

that kind of heart because I will be

scared if I make a mistake I will kill

myself and I did that. That's how they

uh spread me everywhere. They want me

now everywhere to be. And like I said I

mentioned I thought like I'm better than

James Bond. I was doing so good. I

didn't even believe myself. But you know

what is the good

part Sean? When you know you have a

support from a powerful agency, you have

more will to do things because you don't

think you can get caught and put in

prison. You're free to do things like

you can read the instruction. I'm free

to do anything just not to kill uh

Americans or diplomatic or anybody. If I

have to shoot, shoot in the air. Don't

aim to the if you get caught up with US

troops, you surrender yourself. Pretend

you're sick or something, but don't

shoot.

This is how I was my I was instructed

and this is I did it. Whatever they told

me, I did it the way they told me. What

do you think helped you the most in your

mindset doing this?

Mr. Deon. Mr. Devon. Yeah. The best

agent star. I can I can tell you he can

be running the CIA with no

problem. I guess the worst one. Chris.

Chris. Why was he the worst?

The day one I got

shot, I swear to God if he was aiming to

Chris, I would jump in a gun. Me to get

killed, not the CIA agent. That's how I

was loyal. I swear to God. Never forgive

that. He left me like a dog. He was

there. Yeah. He left Iran. When they

come and rescue me, I don't see him.

Never no more. And he he and he tell the

other agents tell him you a new own from

today. Bullet wound everywhere. I

couldn't even drive the car. Let's talk

about that

experience when you got assassinated.

What was going on that day? I'm going to

get a or when they attempted to

assassinate you. Let me let me correct.

Before that uh before March, it was a

February. We supposed to have a meeting.

We was planning to go in Yemen. In

November of 2009, I received death

threat in my phone. November of 2009.

And I sended the phone to Chris. I said,

"I received this message." He said,

"Don't worry. Sometimes somebody try to

bluff and threat, but it's nothing

serial." I said, "Okay." I was preparing

my territory to go to meet with Alawaki.

February. He said uh Abu communication

never mentioned my name always Abu Oal

Abu can we uh change meeting of February

for March 31st uh 2010 2:00 I said no

problem please bring your GPS

coordination the passport I had one

extra passport from them and

uh something I I track somewhere from

the weapons I said okay no problem and

bring a two picture uh passport for

picture size of yourself. I said,

"Okay." I go like a rude usual. I'm

parking my car under the garage. Where

is the CIA safe house? Like super super

careful like very good not to chase me.

I left the house 6:30 7:00 a.m. Changing

two different cities. Sitting there,

sitting here so to see if ever somebody

follow me. Nobody. I go to the garage

two floors under so if it's any tracing

device so not to track that. So I park

my car deep to ground down. I go I'm

entering the safe house. I see old man

car in the grass and I greet him. He has

the white kofi. I say that you knowam

alaykum salam. No problem. It's caring

the flowers. Big building in the

penthouse. It was a CIA safe house. The

way you see me stretching in a stretcher

taken out. I see two guys coming down.

Very calm me. I'm between. I open the

door, enter. And now I see they got

separated. But I never thought I thought

maybe the

Macedonians entering and they pulled a

gun, shot me four time, not once.

The first bullet went through my leg and

I collapsed pretending like because

there was not professional shooters.

They're not somebody who is trained, you

know. I can see, you know, not having

skills in that. And he pulled the gun

right to my head. Jam the gun. I hear

click once, twice, three times.

All he

said they couldn't kill

me and I'm not moving

because when I see the way I saw them I

thought they are like not the guys they

have experience like myself for example

I can control myself in a shooting and

stuff like that I'm very calm not you

know I didn't move I saw blood

everywhere I said let them go

out. I was

thinking let me go in a basement because

I don't want to bring blood maybe they

coming back and if I go in a basement

they will come behind me. If I go in

fourth floor maybe they come they trace

me and they kill him and me. It's a

moment I said to myself you know what

I'm going to

die. I'm not going to betray them. I

don't want to think CIA oh he was a

double agent. He killed our agent. I

stay for a moment. Blood was not

stopping. I pulled myself quick. I

couldn't move much. I start bleeding a

lot. Like I thought I got the van here.

But I couldn't even look my leg because

bullet went through. So I didn't know

where I got shot. I see bleeding here,

bleeding in the back. Like it's a quick

moment. And I went to fourth

floor. We used to have a court. If you

see newspaper in a floor in a Macedonian

writing, so that's mean Chris is inside.

So I don't have to put the key so

neighbors to hear I'm opening the door

and I see Chris inside. And he said,

"What happened?" I said, "I got shot."

He said, "Who did it?" I said, "I don't

know. Two

people. I'm going there." He pulled his

belt. He pulled my belt. He tied it up.

He's, you know, I stop bleeding and I

see he's calling for backup for, you

know, to help us and he's talking

continue. Our man is down. Our man is

down. I need help. Our man is down. And

I I can hear that he had this different

phone using with them saying we are in a

way. We are in a way. We're going to

rescue. Just, you know, careful control

situation bleeding and I start losing

the control. Then the I guess neighbor

saw the blood. The local police came

over there and the secret police came.

They almost clashed with each other.

Local police and secret police. Secret

police supposed to be our friends from

Macedonia. So now Chris is talking to

them. It's our man is down. But he's not

opening the

door. And all I see when they open the

door, I see AK-47 right in my

head. Now I said they're going to kill

me because they see me with a bear. Now

he's a he's a white clean American. I'm

with a bear. Now they're going to think

maybe I'm trying to kill him. You know

the it's a 10 15 people different two

different groups of agency. It's

like and I lose the control. Chris gone.

They took me with a stretcher. They sent

me one day or two days in one hospital.

And that moment when they came after two

days they give me stash of money. I

don't need the money. They said from

today you in your own from hospital.

That was it. Yeah. That's the worst

part.

How did you get burned?

It's a good question. A million dollar

question.

Sorry. I've been through everything in

life. I've repeated many time today. I

don't have no problem to die. But to be

betrayed like that, come on. Central

Intelligent Agency, the strongest agency

in the

world. You rush into judgment. You

didn't investigate

anything. Cameras

everywhere. Sean, I went after one week.

Sorry.

You want to take a break? Yeah, a few

minutes. Let's take a break.

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I know everybody out there has to

be just as frustrated as I am when it

comes to the BS and the rhetoric that

the mainstream media continuously tries

to force feed us. And I also know how

frustrating it can be to try to find

some type of a reliable news source.

It's getting really hard to find the

truth and what's going on in the country

and in the world. And so one thing we've

done here at Shan Ryan Show is we are

developing our

newsletter. And the first contributor to

the newsletter that we have is a woman,

former CIA targeter. Some of you may

know her as Sarah Adams, call sign

superb bad. She's made two different

appearances here on the Shawn Ryan show.

and some of the stuff that she has

uncovered

and broke on this show is just

absolutely

mind-blowing. And so I've asked her if

she would contribute to the newsletter

and give us a weekly intelligence brief.

So it's going to be all things

terrorists, how terrorists are coming up

through the southern border, how they're

entering the country, how they're

traveling, what these different

terrorist organizations throughout the

world are up to. And here's the best

part. The newsletter is actually free.

We're not going to spam you. It's about

one newsletter a week, maybe two if we

release two shows. The only other thing

that's going to be in there besides the

intel brief is if we have a new product

or something like that.

But like I said, it's a free CIA

intelligence brief. Sign up. Links in

the description or in the comments.

We'll see you in the newsletter.

All right,

Blair. We're at the safe house. You get

shot. I can tell you're very

disappointed at how the agency treated

you after that and abandoned

you. We asked, "How do you think you got

compromised?" I mean, I'll bet that's

gone through your head day after day

after day. How do you think you got

compromised?

The way I looked

at one day they did a passport for

me and the passport they did it it was

real my name but I was not from that

country. The people who did the

passport they stopped me one time in a

border for four or five hours

investigating me. Me I was with three or

four fanatics. One of them was arrested

for terrorism in the

border. Same people who came out to help

us that day when I got shot. Same one

was there. Sean, you know how Balkans

function. Regardless how friend can be

over there with you, they still have

like a family like me. I have a some

trusted person. I tell look at I know

this. So I strongly believe agent make a

mistake leaked me my

name and they uh leaked the information

to the

fanatics. This is what happened. So now

for him not to be

blamed I don't know what he put in my

jacket behind to the CIA. He can say

anything I don't know and CIA they never

asked me.

So he could have said

anything but they never give me give a

chance to hear my voice like today. Mhm.

I did nothing wrong if I have to start

again I would die for this country. If I

was that day the guy was trying to shoot

Chris. I swear to God I will put myself

in front and get killed. Never

betrayed. Doesn't matter. This job is

dangerous job.

I'm very proud what I did. I did for my

kids and I did for

us. And I say that early. All my family

are

Americans. Albanians has nothing to do

with terrorism.

At what point did Chris leave that day?

Did he leave when the police showed up?

Yeah. As soon as they took him. Yes. The

Chris left that moment when the police

two groups of police came. one's

supposed to be our friends because we

used to have a quote if it's friend of

Chris that's mean know they are our

friends so when they walk in that day it

was our friends supposed to be and after

all this I investigate I did research

myself somebody who was trying to help

me March 31st he got killed May 9 after

month and a half him and three four

friends. Maybe he become victim because

of me. He was trying to help me. He got

assassinated. If you see the van, you

would never believe how they kill him.

Because he was trying to help me to find

out who tried to kill me. How did they

kill him? In a in a minivan, they

execute him. All four guys, not one. All

four of them. All four. My

friends in Macedonia.

If you see the van, you would think

there was fire 10,000 bullets in that

van. He was trying to help me to find

out who tried to kill

me. Somebody's covering up

somewhere. Sean, I went after 6 days,

April 7, my birthday. It's April 8, one

day before my birthday at US embassy in

where I was recruited. I was with a can.

I couldn't even walk. And I parked the

car right in front of the embassy so

they can see

it. I entered the embassy. Somebody to

came out to uh talk to me. They told me

in embassy you cannot drive no more that

car from the agency from the CIA. Don't

drive no more. Don't come here no more.

Don't come to Macedonia. You are in your

alone. And I tell them simple. How come

it's a cameras in front of the safe

house everywhere? How come you guys

didn't find out who did that? I don't

know, sir. I'm just passing a message.

When I came from the embassy, Sean, in a

Macedonian border, I was threatened from

Macedonians.

Agents, cursed me badly. Don't have an

effort coming in our country. This that

I'm a friend of Chris is telling me at

the border. And I tell him straight up,

f you and him. If you want to kill me,

kill

me. So something is behind covered. So

what is something for I will advise in

this

interview intelligence agency, US

intelligence agency is the best but they

need to investigate the source

sometimes. It's nobody perfect. I'm not

perfect. I did make mistakes. I was not

perfect spy. But trust me, I was

diamond.

I operated everywhere. I was never

exposed. Never was nobody suspicious in

me. I did very good. But I was not

perfect. But agent maybe make a mistake.

Why you don't question him? Why you want

to lose the source? Sean, I can say to

you this is I want you people to hear

that. Believe me, I'm better than 100

CIA agents. I was better than 100 CI

agents. I

was CIA agents. They can do job. Don't

take me wrong, they are intelligent.

They have a money, they have a sources,

everything. But I was inside. CI agent

couldn't go where I went. Mhm. CIA agent

couldn't sleep in between al-Qaeda

members. I slept with them with 15 of

them. I was in a rocka sleeping with 15

20 of them. Imagine one of them just

smell I'm a spy. They will burn me life.

But I did that. But see Asian would not

do that. So this kind of hard I had. So

if you have a man like that, why you

want to lose

him? I hope they listen and they correct

the mistakes. They always have a source.

If they have a spy, let's see what he

said. Maybe the agents make a mistake.

We don't need to rush to judgment and

just ban him. Let's help him so to find

the truth. What's behind who's

behind? I mean, unfortunately, that's

just kind of how it works, you know? I

mean, they they recruit an asset to do

the dirty work. I mean, it's in the

outline, throwaway spy. Yes.

And that's just how it that's just how

it works. But the best will be to make a

changes.

You want me to advise you one thing what

US complete US agency government did

with my help one thing

good and I know I don't care they don't

want to honor that Sean here used to be

very easy to make a US

passport I instruct them how it's

easy and I'm not saying 100% just my

help but believe me US passport rules

was changed because of me I teach them

how to change because there was piece of

cake to make a US passport. A piece of

cake two days you could make it. It's

not you and you can get US passport.

United States changed that because my

help I used to I told them who doing

that from inside job how they doing a

lot of people got the passport even

terrorists going get that and me I blur

him. I teach in that but they never say

that. They always that moment said you

did very good job but after who

cares I did a lot of things good

but they don't care that's you say it

that's how agency works if they have

that they ban you this is how they never

come to admit or accept I I was in touch

with George tenanton two times from

federal prison remember I'm mentioning

that from j with George tenants twice in

2003 and for two times with the head of

CIA from federal prison. So if I was

like that

person changing your agency, I don't

need to know that. But have somebody to

investigate that, you know, make agency

stronger. We need sources. It probably

has more to do with blowing their own

cover than absolutely assets because

once your cover is blown, they don't

want the rest of their their

their staff, their employees burned so

they can continue on doing work. But so

in the hospital, you said they came to

you in the

hospital with a stack of money. Yes. And

what was that conversation like? The

conversation was we're going to escort

you to one of the borders night time.

They asked me to escort me to Albanian

border. I said no. They escort me to

Kosovo border. They give me the money.

They said you have to be in your own.

Don't ask to speak for with nobody from

US agency. You have to be safe. Then

when I went after 6 days or 7, April 7,

they told me to uh get away that car, I

found two tracking device in my car at

the mechanic shop under the car. Two

tracking device in that car CIA

purchased for me.

And that's the car that they said don't

drive anymore. Yes.

What point did they tell you have a nice

life? Don't go high-profile

in after my immigration case uh finished

in 2022. So they were in contact with

you again after the

private no

name friend of Chris.

That's what they said. This is a friend

of Chris. Yeah. Bashan, you see how I'm

sitting with you? Believe it or not, I

used to get the information from inside

CIA in this few years from the source

who's very close to the CIA.

American American not Albanian American

who's very close to

CIA

and the source told me what they even

saying about me.

What were they saying? It's crazy. I

don't want to even I feel bad to say it.

Why? Because like they use you. They use

you and you nothing. Like I don't want

people to be scared to work for the

agency after this. I don't want to use

those things. They they want to make you

look so bad. And the source telling me

source is very close to CIA every day

with

them. Source who run Iraq situation

war. So they don't think I came out to

get to somebody who I can get

things person who

was planning in Iraq side in Iraq war 3

years and this is what they're saying

about

you. I said why Sean if somebody wants

me to be bad person maybe I believe

strong that

too they want to to have a business more

work so maybe this guy go crazy no

Sean I'm proud to be

American maybe somebody

has crazy ideas what were they saying

about you it's I don't if I say it it's

no good people to hear

Did they paint you to be a double asset?

No.

Never. Never double asset. Like who can

do that job or it's it's it's bad to say

it in the air. I don't want to, you

know, because people going to think

then, hey, I would never do this job. If

they say that about him like

that, they're going to say that about

me. Same thing.

So they completely washed their hands of

you. Yeah. And then in one way or

another painted you out to be bad. Yeah.

And then came back after after 2012, 13,

14. They still want to communicate with

me. They call my lawyer in New York

City. He's in US soil. I don't know how

to uh we can take him from US soil. And

I told them, I told my lawyer, tell them

you don't have to take me. You tell me

where you want me to meet, I can come

and meet. I don't need your help. You

never help me to take me somewhere. I

came my

way. We talking after I got burned,

after I got shot. Why did they Why did

they contact your lawyer? What did they

want? Because I think they was scared

something when there was a Belgium

bombing. They thought I knew what some

of those

guys and Syria I praised the ISIS. They

knew it. I was in Syria. I knew it in

from 20089. They was bringing weapons

from Iraq. Sean, I was there. I was

witnessing trucks full of the weapons.

This is what's going to be. But I never

knew the name ISIS because still was

al-Qaeda. Then they changed to Jabat

Nusra, Da Islamia. Then they changed to

ISIS. But it's same people. It's not

they didn't go away. It's the same

people. Al-Qaeda changed the name. It's

the same fanatics. It's never different.

I had very strong source inside of the

Syria. I spent three four months in

Syria and they found out maybe it's a

plan in US soil. I was communicating

with them. Believe it or not, somebody

got killed with a drone just because my

health from New

York. They tell me to talk to him and I

talk and they never say because of me

they kill him. But after two days I

found out he's killed. But he was

talking to me in a phone in New York

from

Syria. But they never we talking 2015.

If I was bad like that, why are you

talking to me then?

So, it's what's interesting is earlier

you were saying all the communication

goes through corers, personto person,

face to face. That's it. Yes. And now

we're talking about you're on a phone

call with one of the top guys in Syria

who gets killed in a drone strike. Yes.

And so when did that switch? When did

they switch from one ISIS uprise? One

that they was using telegram system.

They thought they cannot trace nothing.

It's Russian control. So they was

talking very free. just know one ISIS

came out okay in telegram it's that app

telegram from Russia so they was using

that and signal two of them and signal

too so we was communicating with them

through those two

things it was a time I told them what

time I'm uh going to talk to them from

here from New

York and they

was listening the conversation Sean uh

viewers going to want to know if is it

true or Not Sean. If I communicate with

the terrorist overseas from US soil, you

end up in uh US penitentiary. You get

arrested in 2 minutes. So this is me. I

was communicating from US soil with

terrorist. If I was not CIA source, I

couldn't get why I didn't get arrested.

If I'm lying, you know, because people

look, you have a sick people everywhere.

They come like one in Denmark. He worked

for CIA a little bit for a couple of

months and lunatic. He now I hear these

drinking and stuff. He was not Muslim.

He was converted in Islam in a prison.

But I was not like

that. I was strongly skilled person.

Are they

aware? Do you think that you're coming

on the show? I don't think so. Are they

aware? No. Maybe. Maybe this two three

days they listen my conversation. But if

they're going to like it, I'm 100%

they're going to hate it. I'm 100%

they're going to blame you. Why this guy

bring this uh uh source here now? Uh who

knows people how they going to think for

us? How it's going to be our image?

Are they aware of the documentary? Oh,

yes. That's what they told me. Yes, they

told me, you know, go stay calm with

your life. You know, you don't need to

uh expose yourself in that two-minute

conversation. That's what they told me.

But I said, I don't need advice. I don't

have no problem to die. I wanted people

to know what I did. I'm not dirt person.

I'm not garbage the way you think. I'm a

normal human being. I'm father of three

beautiful kids. I go on live with normal

life. What did they say about the

documentary? They didn't say nothing. I

didn't steal here after nothing. Did you

tell them you're doing it? Oh, yes. Yes.

And they didn't say anything. No, they

didn't say

anything. I told them I'm going to put

the book and it's going to be six

episode movie also after the

documentary. I'm planning to put the six

episode movie.

And I do still have a contact there. I

don't contact them. They contact me.

I don't contact them. You know, we

missed uh Sean, when I got shot, it was

one more mistake in my side. You see, I

say it. I have no problem to admit my

mistake. I had a secret number. If I'm

in danger situation, I have to call that

number at the CIA, which is Washington.

It's free. I can call from everywhere

only if it's a dangerous situation in my

life like if it threat something I can

call that number so she can help me when

I didn't call my wife because I told her

if I don't call 48 to 72 hours you need

to call this

number and she called them they answer

what is the message related this is uh

uh message from Abu and what is the

message I can take. She said my husband

disappeared and the phone after that is

disconnect and she tried to call again.

No more ringing that phone. That's the

mistake I make in

this all these two years or 10 years

working with the US intelligence agency

and one time with the

weapons I uh the way they told me to do

the weapons I guess I guess they thought

I was not capable to do in professional

way not to be dangerous. I did it good

and we changed the spot where we going

to get the weapon slash. It was a crazy

bombs, landmines and everything. And uh

Chris was with a crew with two three

cars with the CIA and I changed the

spot. He came in my city. I told him not

in my city because everybody knows in my

city know me. God forbid one human see

me with this beard and six seven people

Americans with clean shave I will be uh

suspicious right away. So I did changes

myself. I switched the place. I told him

not in that place but through the

communication not the in a plan like

last minute and he got angry in that. I

said I got to save my I got to be safe.

I don't want to expose me and you're

going to tell me f yourself and you in

your own yourself alone. I changed that

spot. I did the job. Excellent. All I

did that mistake to change the job and

my wife call in the CIA. Two mistakes I

did with CIA. The rest never anything. I

was perfectly clear in time. Whatever I

was instructed to do, I went 100%

according to the instruction from CIA.

Where would you procure the weapons?

I used to have Were these Were these

coming from Syria, Pakistan, Saudi? Were

they coming? The weapons in Balkans.

They were all coming in Balkans. In

Balkans. All in Balkans. But the

uranium, it was coming from for Russia

through the Germany. We did

investigate and it was a possible. They

want to build the dirt bomb fanatics.

They want to sell it to me knowing is

going in al-Qaeda's hand. There was a

lot of money involved and we was

investigating that one of the source one

of those two brothers got shot. We not

mention the name because still they

investigating still it's under you know

I don't know what go what's going on

with government but they still are

there. One of them got shot I guess

because this issue and but he's life

they tried to assassinate him one of

those two

brothers. This is the issue I was

involved directly with them. We was

trying to put hands in that because they

thought it's a coming it was a missing

nuclear head from the former from that

time Ukraine one they give up to the

Russians. So that he's still saying it's

missing. So they thought maybe that's

the part it's coming and it's coming in

al-Qaeda's hand. So the Russians were

selling al-Qaeda uranium. Yes. What year

was this? It was in 2009 8 or 9. You can

look in the communication. It's clearly

over there.

And you were involved in that? I was

100% involved.

How did that How did you get connected

to the Russians? Through the fanatics.

They're the They bring Yeah. They bring

through from Germany to Italy to from

Italy to Albania.

And so why were the

Russians involved at all? I have no

idea. It's a good question. If I know, I

will say it.

How easy is it to get uranium Russia?

It's very hard because you need a lot of

skills. You have to be real professional

in that part to deal with that.

Seems like it would have to be somebody

inside the government. Yes, 100%. Did

they get it to him? I have no idea more.

I know he was there because we was going

purchase. CIA was telling me, "Hold on.

We're going to have expert to do this.

You cannot deal

yourself. So if we get

that, you're going to be disappear.

You're not going to be able no more to

work. So we have to have our man to deal

with that. You just have to keep them

whole. You buying

that. How much

uranium? They was saying it can easy

kill half a million.

How many bombs would this go in? Three

four? And they would have al-Qaeda

smuggle it into the US. Yeah. Do you

think that happened?

Look, if is that plan, why didn't it

happen until now? And again, terrorists

need to get lucky one

time, not all the time. Once They have a

patient. Sean, those people are no joke.

Not

everyone, but the brains are really

smart. That's why they want me

in. After I got shot 2010, they begged

me 2014 to go back to be leader after I

got shot. And the the best source I had,

he knew it. I got shot, but he never

thought I got shot because I was

pie. He thought maybe our secret agents

they want to assassinate me so I'm not a

fanatic. So I cannot attack us. So maybe

it's inside job from the government of

country or

neighbors Serbia or Macedonia.

So they try to assassinate me so I don't

do something bad.

When's the last time you had contact

with them with us? With the

agency 2022.

That's the last time. 3 years ago.

January

2022. 6 or 7 January. 2 minutes. Cuz

I'll tell you what's going through my

mind. What if they got in contact with

you to tell me that in this show? Ah,

no. Never. To drive a narrative.

Never. Never. Ever. I never planned to

come in your

show. I was watching your show. The best

show. Seeing you past, reading your

CV. They asked me to give. Look, I

mentioned New York Times. It's a crazy

interview. Headline New York Times

number one

newspaper. But to come

here, I don't believe it. But if going

to if they're going to like it, I don't

think

so. Well, there's a lot of higherups

that want us at war.

We both know that. I know very well and

you know very well.

Sean, if it's like

that, you saw the story. You seen me. I

can I don't hide what I can do. I'm tell

I don't tell uh people in the street. I

don't tell family members. But this is

who I am.

So why you

don't work with him to keep him quiet?

It's very easy. You're the strongest

agency in the world. You don't need to

come and bow down and say, "I'm sorry."

No, absolutely. Just blur him. Stay calm

with your family. Here is

your green card, US passport. Stay calm.

Enjoy you. They give in former Sean.

They give a lady who was cleaning my

room. Look at this. I want you to see

this. Listen. They give a lady with four

kids. They bring her from over there

here for nothing and you not giving me

she's a piece of garbage. Mhm. Loser

lady. She was deported from European

countries involved in the crimes and

they bring her because she was cleaning

my room. She told them, "Oh, he has a

lot of slash weapons and you want me to

funny thing joke." When the immigration

pro uh prosecutor asked me do you know

do anybody has your papers ever? Guess

what? I left envelope with some papers.

This lady to touch it she did it and she

give to the immigration that

information. Just me and you we know

this borrow correct right now. Mhm. If

somebody else ask us from outside you or

me told them. So that lady told the

immigration. That lady told the CIA,

"Oh, Blair has a

weapons. That lady was cleaning the room

my house. She tell me how you got shot."

I said, "I got shot accidentally because

I don't want to. It's a family. I don't

want to to be scared kids because

gossip." No, I said I was playing with a

gun. I got shot

here. She told CIA that lie. He got shot

himself. I never got shot him myself

because CIA helped me. Why CIA didn't go

back and say, "Hey, why you lying?

Somebody tried to kill him. You telling

us he told you he got shot

himself?" Do you understand? It makes

sense to you. Mhm. She tell them, "Oh,

he he told me he got shot himself

accidentally with his gun. He likes gun.

He he shot accidentally himself. I don't

shoot with left. I shoot I'm a rider.

I'm not left. I had no gun. You know,

another thing we missed when I was in

hospital, they came uh local police to

see if I have a gun power in my hands.

They did that wrapping things with

aluminum thing. They do it if I was

engaged with shooting. I was not engaged

in shooting. I had no guns. I never

crossed. I crossed the border one time

trying to show samples with

uranium to the CIA and they tell me,

"Please don't ever do that.

It's very

dangerous. And then one time there was

something issue with some kind of size

of ammunition we found and I I took it.

I took it because I'm brave. I'm not

scared. It's not like people can say is

a sick. No, it's not sick. I have no

problem to deal with the weapons. It's

like somebody do draw the flag. I'm I'm

good with the weapons. If you good

drawer with a flag, I'm a good with the

weapons.

So this is how I am. And you taking a BS

from somebody from nowhere from source

who you had decade working for you.

Decade. I spent from 91 to uh 2010. 9

years plus after that

communicating. Sean, you can you're

super intelligent. Look at who's John

Müller. John Müller requested to meet

with me. I met with a John Müller, head

of counterterrorism unit, not the Asian

head of counter who met Bin Laden. John

Müller met Bin Laden 25 years ago. I met

with him. He requested to meet and I

went and see him. And I was after I came

from Canada after I got shot in 2015 and

two three different time I met with CIA

and FBI in my lawyer's office. Not once.

So if I'm bad like that, so why you want

to meet with me? If I'm no good, so why

you want to meet with

me? And I will not come in your show. I

will not go in immigration or nowhere to

uh put my name in the dangers and family

name in the dangers. If they was come

and said, you know what, we're not

saying if we make a mistake or not,

we're going to call the judge and say,

the judge, you enjoy your life. Get your

papers and that's it. They never did

that. They're supposed to do it. They

they told me we're not like a federal

prosecutors. Many time not once DoD,

Department of Defense twice in your

county, Pennsylvania said, "Mr. Skoro,

we not like a federal prosecutors. We

are the Department of Defense. If we say

something, we we keep

that." None of

them. I I have to keep my loyalty to you

and agency, but you don't keep nothing

to me. We got to work something

together. I'm not interesting to make

money of uh my movie and book and

document. Trust me, I work. I can make

little money. My wife works. My two kids

works. We work. Four of

us. It's not really money. It's no money

to the CIA working. Trust me. Mhm. You

get some money, but for me it's nothing.

It can be for Afghani gokeeper. You know

those poor guys you give $500 or $1,000.

I'm not

Afghani. You know, I can earn money in

proper way.

You bring in 200,000 Afghanistan and you

saying they help us. No, those 200,000

Afghanistan, they didn't help us. It's a

is stupid to think like that. It's

embarrassment. We help them. They give

up not to fight. They cowed. I'm using

this word. I'm sorry to use that. How

come they didn't find Taliban? Why they

left all those weapon over there? Why

they give up so quick? They didn't even

fire a bullet. They run away. We spent

20 years over there. We spend all that

money. We invest all that money and now

you bringing 200,000

Afghanist everywhere.

What did they plan on using the all the

weapons that you procured?

How did they I mean you talked about

landmines and all of that kind of they

destroy all of them. They took and

destroyed. They took it and destroyed

everything. Whatever I got it all the

CIA took it. with the with the network

that you set up in in

in [ __ ]

Slovakia, the network that you set up,

would they ever ask where the weapons

were?

They was thinking I'm uh uh getting for

al-Qaeda. But did they ever want to see

them? No, never. Because it's a strict

rules. Al-Qaeda doesn't show nothing to

you guys. Mhm. I cannot that's a two

secret may if they ask me I would say oh

you a spy you working for

somebody maybe you're working for

Americans or foreigner

agency you see the bathroom you have

downstairs I can say three or four times

bigger than that place I took C4 from

the terror group just

C4 two or three time least like that

bathroom you have full Mhm. Not just a

little bit full. Yeah, this with my

hands and all give to the

CIA. I did never problem. I never caused

no damage. No, no CIA was ever hurt or

something. Everybody was safe and good.

I did everything myself.

How did you get back into the US? How I

came back? It's very easy for me. It's

no problem to come to US. It's no, it's

no problem for me today after 10 days to

be in Afghanistan. It's very easy. It's

all open

border, Sean. I always keep my sources.

I always have a friends. My good

friends, they know I would never betray

them. I would die never betray them. I'm

very loyal, but I'm not loyal to

terrorist. But I can be your friend. I

never betrayed you. Mhm. But not to

terrorist. I'm not loyal to terrorist.

But to friends, I'm a lawyer. I can pick

a phone. If I want to assassinate

somebody, I can do that. I have a

friend. Are you saying that you you came

back into the country illegally in US?

Yeah. Somebody drove me from

Canada. There's no problem. You have a

open border a lot of places.

And so what's your status now? Oh, now

I'm to stay. My status is uh granted

from immigration

judge. I have no problem now. I'm

legally uh permitted in US. I have no

issue no more. I have no courts or

nothing. I'm free. It's just I cannot

fly overseas.

And what do you do now? I I'm a cab

driver. It's a hell of a hell of a cab

to get into. Yeah. But I never talk to

the customers. You don't? No.

I don't think they would believe you

anyways. Oh, it's not that. And I I I

meet all kind of people. Sometimes it's

interesting. Some people they want to

show off or tell you story and I don't

buy easy. I have more skills than them.

I was a car wash owner for 10 years. I

had a car wash business. I lost car wash

business because my bad friends CIA 2016

they sending me team 50 people to arrest

me in Brooklyn with helicopter with

sniper. They arresting like arresting me

like arresting al-Qaeda leader. I

couldn't believe it. What did they

arrest you for? For nothing complaint.

And they released me. Complaint. What

was the complaint? They said the

prosecutor here I can give you small

details. The prosecutor who arrest a

terror guy who was

convicted in US soil

overseas when they came in Canada they

thought I was going to testify something

against and the prosecutor convict him

with my source information and he give

credit to informers all my information

what CIA provide to him and then he went

against me saying he's a liar the

prosecutor and then I go in a court in

front of federal judge. I said, "Your

honor, I want to because I know now I'm

not a mouse not to know my rights." And

I told the lawyer who was defending me,

excellent lawyer. I have the best

lawyers in United States this time.

Before I didn't have that now, I have

the best lawyers in United States and

they're willing always to defend me for

free. I don't have to pay them. They're

so good lawyers. They're willing to

defend me for

free because they know I'm honest. They

know I put my life in a dangers to

protect Americans. They come the judge

said to to prosecutors are you going to

indict him? Prosecutor had no no

indictment. Sean if you re-entry to us

if you have all these pictures the

prosecutor will send you for life in

prison. So they didn't do anything. They

didn't do anything. And the same

prosecutor after one you know the worst

part in the justice department are

federal prosecutors.

Because they work one year, two years.

They don't work to stop a criminal. They

just work to build a little bit

reputation to create experience so they

can be private lawyers to make money

because prosecutors don't make no money.

So a lot of people become victim for

that the way I become victim. But thank

God judge make a right decision. I

really appreciate. I have nothing to say

that judge is going to be. I have a uh

uh I have all the recording like you see

the way I I I was talking to you today.

The judge didn't know I record all the

decision. I'm not supposed to do that.

But I was so happy when they make that

decision like I'm a born for second time

because my kids was there. They seen

they know what I've been through. They

was all the time present with me. They

went in a pain the way I went. They

suffer with me my wife and kids. So the

judge said I cannot deport this guy.

This guy gonna stay in my country. He

she make decision. She was a lady. She

grant me

stay and I'm here. I'm happy with the

judge but I'm not happy with agency

because agency couldn't do that me not

to be here.

Sean agency I couldn't I still couldn't

help the agency a lot of

things even after my assassination

attempt I couldn't help them a lot I was

more brain than them not for from all of

them not like uh Devon and Scott those

Deon and Scott I dealt in the beginning

they was brilliant agents super good CIA

agents and the one in the federal prison

Lieutenant Lions he was former Marine

means it was excellent. I

will welcome to work again with them.

But the last

one crazy. Would you do it all over

again? Absolutely. Even knowing how they

treated you.

Yes.

With no

mistake, no second thought, just I will

put one condition. I want everything

black and white in a paper writing.

the way agents work inside of the

agency, I want like that too. If you're

not going to have me to have that paper

because I sign on contract with them, if

I cannot keep that paper, my kids cannot

have that, then I will not. But if I if

you offer me that, I would do it from

beginning. And you don't believe how

much this country in the dangers

today, you're not going to see that

today. You're going to remember my

interview with you after 10 years. How

much or where I see it in a country? How

it's fanatics growing in US? How are

they growing? Badly.

I mean, I see it. I know they're

recruiting out of the a little bit. You

see, when I It's me different because

when I see what they how what they're

reading, I can tell if they're going to

be bad to the country. You know when

imam tells

you hey you don't need to ask me all the

time fight for your rights do what you

have to do for your

rights that's mean he's instigating you

he's preaching you he's brainwashing you

you to do something that's

bad and the US agency failing badly

another thing they have no control of

finance how much money they give us

government have a zero control and those

goes the finance goes in a bad people's

hand. You know why it's quiet today?

Because they want to grow in this in a

fanatics uh ideology is this. I can easy

tell you that the ideology is a sick

ideology because they can they wanted to

get strong with finance. So when it's

time to fight you, they can fight you.

They're not making peace with you.

They're just quiet. They're telling you,

"Yeah, like a situation in Syria, but

when it's time, they will fight you

back." We help al-Qaeda and bin Laden in

Afghanistan. You know what the

uh the CIA agent, I read his book, uh I

don't want to mention his name now to

advertise him. He said we offer him over

half a billion dollar to bin Laden in

his book. You can read that just to come

in a TV and said I'm giving up jihad.

I'm not fighting against crusaders. I'm

going to live in Saudi Arabia. He said

no. I read in his book he was 25 years

CI agent in his bin Laden unit

investigated. That's what he

said. So same thing happened today. A

lot of breeding of fanatics is there but

the agency is failing. You know it's a

joke. the biggest uh breathing come from

the prison from

institution. Crazy. You don't believe

it? I believe it. I tell you the way I

see it, it's crazy. And we're going to

feel the pains after 10, 15

years. But it's going to be too late.

Sean, it's here. You ask me, it's easy

to get weapons. I can get weapons much

as you want in United States. Give me

the money. I can buy you anything you

want. Anything you name it, I can get

you. So if I can get that, you think one

day terror is not going to get that? Of

course. Oh, I know they're getting it.

We talk about it a lot on this show. I

see it. So look at me. I see that.

What's going on? And I tell you that and

you don't want to source like that. Come

on. I can make a living anywhere you

want. If you know you I you want to

understand my mind what I think. If you

throw me in the middle of Atlantic

Ocean, no

clothes, no money, I come out from

Atlantic Ocean with clothes and money.

This is how I trust

myself. This is who I am. I don't see

movies, but I'm the person you dealing

now. I can do

things. I don't need attention. I don't

need my name to be there.

I couldn't be very low profile like

before and do things which benefit you

and the country.

I I didn't got no

benefit. Did you see me how I was

emotion? It's 54 years old. It's it's

very heartbroken, you know, to come to

that

point. You betrayed

me.

Why? You have a man. I can die for you.

Why you don't just give me the hand say

let me pull

you. You don't need to drown. I can help

you. I'm a normal human. I love my kids.

I love my family. I did everything for

my kids and

family. Somebody who love the kids and

family, he would not hurt you.

Never. Because when I saw that they

jumping from 911 80 third floor people

jumping I saw I don't care what they

saying with conspiracy. I was thinking

to kill that guy in my cell because he

was happy seeing that. I swear it was

moment. I swear to God. I'm telling you,

believe it or not, I was thinking to

kill that guy, that terrorist guy in

cell. I believe it. Come on. I want to

be happy. People jumping, people who

feed my kids, people who help me all the

time, I'm going to be happy. Never

religion. I will ban my

religion. If they push me like that, I

will ban. I want to live normal human

being.

I rather be with my kids normal than be

judged like that. Oh, look at what he

did. Killed innocent people. I don't

have to be in a problem in a war. War

it's a

war. War it's a

war. But not the way they do it. Kill

taking hijacking a plane or blowing

yourself in

supermarket. That's not a war. Yeah.

Come on.

Well, we're wrapping up the interview.

Do you have anything in particular you

want to say? I hope right people listen

this. I don't want

attention. For me, it's quality of the

people to hear this. I'm not against to

nobody. I'm against

terrorist. I was never double, never one

side. If I was double, I couldn't do a

lot of things until today. A lot.

But I'm proud who I am. I proudly serve

this country. I deserve to be treated

just a little bit like human. Not too

much, just a little bit.

Well, I would agree. I hope every

everybody enjoys

that. Not taking wrong my interview.

Well, they're going to enjoy it.

Thank you for what you've done for the

country. Thank you for being here. and

um can't wait to see that documentary

hit. Thank you very much. I'm honored to

be in your place. It's an honor to have

an honor. I'd be very honest with you.

When I saw you shows, I said this is my

dream place to be. The way I never

mention every code in the banks and

stuff one day you have to put something

passport. I put my dream job

CIA. So this is who I was. I'm a Muslim.

But my dream job was CIA. You might want

to change those passwords now. From now

I have

to Sean Ryan.

All right. Thank you very much. I I

really appreciate, man. I really

appreciate.

[Music]

No matter where you're watching Shan

Ryan Show from, if you get anything out

of this, please like, comment,

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