0:02 This video was sponsored by Enhance
0:04 Elbilmech Aid Planner Camp Power and
0:06 Bill Compente.
0:08 Yo, what's up? A couple of days ago at
0:11 AA in Munchin, CL announced this
0:15 wonderful Shening battery. It got me
0:17 really excited. I was like, wow, this is
0:20 the next Yeah, but you know, is
0:23 this just wer or is it actually going to
0:25 come in production? Are we going to get
0:29 this battery in more common uh EVs?
0:31 Well, uh, CL, they actually have
0:34 batteries in onethird of the EVs around
0:36 the world, including Tesla, Volkswagen,
0:41 BM, Hundai, Ford, and Volvo. So, I
0:43 actually believe that it's not just uh
0:45 words, they are actually coming out with
0:47 this soon. So, what can we expect here,
0:50 right? They also promoted this ultra
0:54 safe propagation 3.0. And you know, LFP
0:56 battery is already ultra safe, but they
0:58 just went one step further to make it
1:01 almost indestructible or at least, you
1:04 know, really really safe. Uh, but what
1:06 what I'm going to do in this video is
1:07 talk a little bit about what the heck
1:10 this is and what I found out it is. Um,
1:12 I will estimate some stats because I was
1:13 missing some stats when I look at the
1:15 presentation and I will actually compare
1:18 this against my own test data when I
1:21 spend thousands of hours testing various
1:22 things with the cars when it comes to
1:26 range charging. Uh, 1,00 km challenge.
1:30 uh it's just real world data and I will
1:32 use my own data to try to figure out
1:34 more about what you can expect from this
1:37 battery and also try to estimate 1,000
1:39 km challenge time with this super
1:42 battery right and uh they c they also
1:45 talk about the degradation
1:46 I will just take that with a pinch of
1:49 salt I also have of course my own test
1:51 data on that and the last thing I'll
1:53 talk about is the acceleration or the
1:55 power output so they have basically two
1:57 batteries now coming out. It's the super
1:59 long life and then the super fast
2:02 charging battery and really impressive
2:04 specs. But if you try to break it down,
2:07 I try to figure out, okay, uh battery
2:09 size is probably gross capacity, a
2:12 higher number looks better, but what is
2:14 the net capacity? And they supply some
2:18 VTP numbers here. So, uh yeah, it of
2:19 course you guys know that it depends on
2:21 what car you put it in. If it's a Model
2:25 3 or I don't know, a big fat SUV or
2:27 something. Hong Xi. Yeah. So then it
2:30 depends but try to estimate and my best
2:32 guess is they use 150 W hour per
2:34 kilometer which is roughly in the
2:35 middle. Some of the most efficient cars
2:37 they go as low as 120 W hour per
2:40 kilometer and then efficient and then
2:43 thirsty cars they might consume 200 W
2:46 hour per kmter. So based on that I can
2:48 figure out that the net capacity could
2:50 be around 113.7
2:52 kilwatt hour for the big battery and
2:55 then 102.5 for the small battery.
2:57 And also charging time we can calculate
3:01 that it has 318 kW average. Very
3:03 impressive. And then the fast charging
3:07 battery is 430. I mean it's really fast.
3:10 Uh we have actually in production
3:12 rolling out now soon to be released you
3:16 know uh the Xpang G9 and I actually
3:19 tested it in Mintion and uh the G9 on
3:23 paper it will do 10 to 80% in 12 minutes
3:25 almost as fast as this uh uh super
3:28 battery and at least Xben's own number
3:32 is 313 kW average so it's actually close
3:35 to the the well this the big battery
3:37 that charges slightly slower but not as
3:39 fast as the small battery. And on my own
3:42 test in Mion recently, I went from 28 to
3:44 80% in less than 12 minutes and a
3:50 average 277 kW. So uh the 313 kW that uh
3:53 Xben claims is plausible, which means
3:56 that these numbers that CL claims is
4:00 also plausible. But is this really a 12C
4:03 battery? It sounds way too good to be
4:05 true because we actually have a
4:07 production car to compare against which
4:10 is the Xpang G9 I tested recently and
4:12 that is a 5C battery. They don't use a
4:15 CL battery. They're facing away from it.
4:18 They're using other providers and okay
4:21 it's 10 to 80% in 12 minutes versus 10
4:24 minutes in the CL battery. And then okay
4:26 kilowatt hour maybe not too relevant.
4:28 You have to look at the C rate here. So
4:32 it's 3.4 4C versus 3.9 C average from 10
4:34 to 80%.
4:36 To me, it sounds like it's a 6C battery
4:41 that the CL have. Okay. And also, if we
4:45 have 12C battery and we charge it at
4:48 12C, that would be a whopping 1.3
4:52 megawatt peak power is insanely fast.
4:54 Maybe you get it for a split second like
4:56 Tesla, right? 250 kW. I I don't know.
4:59 But if it's 6C, which I think is more
5:02 realistic, then it's 660 kilowatt peak,
5:05 which is still really high. So maybe
5:08 that's what you can expect, right? Uh
5:10 it's probably pointless to plug it in 1
5:12 1.3 megawatt charger if you're going to
5:14 find it even.
5:16 But what is great with this technology
5:19 if it's coming out soon is that um uh
5:21 smaller batteries, smaller cars, more
5:23 affordable cars, they can have around 50
5:26 kwatt hour and then okay depending on if
5:28 you can get 12c or 6C then we're talking
5:32 about 300 to 600 kow. I mean I would be
5:36 happy to get even 300 kowatt on a know
5:38 what I call poor man's car or a small
5:41 city car. then it doesn't matter if you
5:43 have a small battery. It charges really
5:45 fast and you don't need a big battery.
5:47 You you can just charge it slightly more
5:50 often or it charges so fast that you can
5:52 actually charge it in maybe 90% or
5:55 almost 100% and utilize more of the
5:57 battery. And they also have some really
6:00 impressive cold battery performance. So,
6:02 I also did some cold battery, but I
6:04 didn't go to minus20° C. It's not very
6:07 practical because uh in order to get the
6:09 battery down to -20° C, you usually have
6:15 to soak it outside inus 20 for 24 hour.
6:18 If you leave it out for just let's say
6:21 overnight, 10 hours, the battery
6:23 temperature drops, but it doesn't reach
6:26 the ambient temperature. and what the
6:28 way physics work. I've been you know in
6:32 uh in Fal where it's really cold and win
6:34 some winters uh the temperature might
6:37 drop to - 20 -30° at night but it's
6:39 actually really early in the morning
6:42 around 3 to 4 at night that it hits the
6:44 lowest temperature but then the sun
6:47 rises and then the temperature goes up
6:49 and it's when you have clear sky that
6:51 you get cold weather. Okay, whatever.
6:52 I'm not going to bother you with all the
6:55 physics, but um what I'm saying is that
6:58 in order to like get the battery to
6:59 reach -20°
7:02 um I guess you just need to camp it over
7:04 time in Laplan or somewhere and then
7:07 over time, yeah, it cools down. But when
7:10 I tested it, I tested in 10° C, which is
7:12 maybe more realistic
7:14 in Norway or other countries. When it's
7:18 nice and warm, you get 3.5 3.9 C. But
7:20 when it's cold, it's kind of tricky.
7:22 They don't suddenly don't use 10 to 80%,
7:24 they use 20 to 80%. And you have to
7:28 actually look at the numbers here. And
7:32 it charges then 44% of the maximum when
7:34 when it's hot, right? The maximum speed.
7:38 And then well, I have uh just a 10° C
7:41 battery uh when it comes to the model 3
7:44 plus LFP battery. In that test, you see
7:48 that I managed to achieve 60% power
7:51 versus the warm battery. So, uh, at
7:52 least the ATL, they have better
7:54 performance. Well, we can't really
7:55 compare them, not compare Apple to
7:57 apple. You know, if I actually went down
8:00 to minus 30, 20°C in the battery, it
8:02 would probably not charge at all. It
8:04 will probably just heat up the battery
8:07 for several hours and then maybe once
8:10 the battery hits 0° C, it will start
8:14 charging. So actually this claim by CL
8:17 if it's true it is
8:21 it is gamechanging how good it is and
8:23 then also uh but we should also compare
8:25 maybe against other battery chemistry
8:29 here like u like in the MAB platform I
8:30 think that's NMC or something that it
8:32 contains cobalt and then it's a
8:34 different story because uh the cold
8:37 battery is just that's a little bit
8:39 slower than a hot battery and then the
8:41 the theory behind this is that Okay, you
8:42 start with slower speed in the beginning
8:43 but then the battery heater should run
8:46 but also you heat up the battery as you
8:49 go and that is extra heat you gain so
8:52 you can charge faster. So it seems like
8:54 well here at least when the the cold
8:56 battery performance uh it's just that
8:59 the LFP has other advantages and then
9:01 the one of the disadvantages with LFP is
9:03 that u it doesn't uh perform that well
9:05 in cold weather versus the cobalt based
9:08 batteries but with this new super
9:11 battery from CL then at least that part
9:15 is uh less less of a problem. And the
9:17 next I'm trying to estimate, okay, um,
9:19 based on the physical size of the
9:21 battery, I'm not sure if that's going to
9:25 fit like a Model Y or ID7. So, it might
9:28 fit something bigger. Uh, I'm not sure,
9:32 but can we actually get 122 kWh in
9:35 there, but let's say we can fit it right
9:38 in a Model Y or maybe ID7, some
9:41 efficient cars. not well not super
9:42 efficient, not like a model 3, but at
9:45 least more common car because I used
9:47 Model Y and 97 because they are some of
9:50 the most sold EVs in Europe. And then
9:52 you see that we actually get quite
9:56 awesome uh range over 800 km of range at
9:59 90 km/h and then uh in 120 test is
10:02 around 540 to 600 km. This is a real
10:04 world range. This is not based on VTP. I
10:07 actually take my own range test and I
10:10 look at the data there and then I try to
10:12 extrapolate what the range would be. And
10:14 of course you can just estimate that if
10:16 you have smaller battery then the range
10:19 will be a bit lower. But also based on
10:21 this I can estimate the 1,00 km
10:25 challenge time. And it's interesting the
10:27 bigger battery that charges slower
10:29 versus the smaller battery that charges
10:31 faster. Which battery is the fastest
10:34 when it comes to the 1,00 km challenge?
10:36 Well, uh, the big battery has advantage
10:37 because it doesn't have to charge that
10:39 often and it actually gets an initial
10:42 run in the beginning. Um, but I also
10:44 base this on charging to 80%. Normally I
10:46 don't charge to 80% during 1,000 km
10:48 challenge simply because uh, you know,
10:51 the the speed tapers off past let's say
10:54 50 60% and I tend to charge to somewhere
10:58 between 50 and 60 65% on most cars.
11:01 However, when we have so fast charging
11:03 EVs like we have here, then it actually
11:05 pays off to charge to roughly 80%.
11:07 Because if you only charge to let's say
11:10 50 60%, which is still really fast,
11:13 right? The problem is that it might take
11:16 5 6 minutes to charge at those levels.
11:19 Uh but you still have that detour and
11:21 that handshake, plug in, whatever. And
11:23 then also when you unplug, you might
11:24 have to call the charge port and get
11:27 inside the car. So that overhead it
11:30 could be let's say 2 minutes if you're
11:32 fast or maybe 3 minutes if it's a slow
11:35 slower detour that 2 3 minutes becomes
11:37 quite significant when you have only 5
11:39 minute charging time. So in that regard
11:42 you actually want to charge to around
11:45 80% or that takes roughly 10 or 12
11:48 minutes but that yields okay the time
11:50 nine a little bit over 9 hours a little
11:53 bit slower in L. Yeah. Um, the fastest
11:56 charging battery is slightly faster, but
12:00 also the fastest charging uh test actual
12:02 test I've done so far is the Model S
12:05 paladium longrange and the Seeker 7X.
12:07 And one of the reason why Model S did it
12:09 so well because it was so efficient and
12:11 the Seeker was charging really fast
12:14 also. But 855 is some of the fastest you
12:15 can get there. And then why the heck did
12:18 my result uh my estimation become not
12:20 that great? Well, because uh this is
12:22 just an estimation and then based on
12:25 what I've seen fast charging EVs in
12:27 general, they will have better real
12:30 world result than my estimation because
12:32 my estimation is based on 120 km/h flat
12:35 and it's not like that. We have actually
12:37 120 zone in Sweden for example, right?
12:40 But we also have to drive to city.
12:41 But then also I should mention the
12:43 fossil reference which is some of the
12:45 fastest out there with very low
12:48 refueling time. some refilling time of
12:50 course I did it in 835 so you can't
12:53 really go that much faster even with how
12:56 fast EV you want to have right but we
12:58 can also compare it against the Xpank G9
13:00 which is also a very fast charging
13:03 battery and the G9 okay the previous
13:05 version was charging at only around 300
13:08 kW uh did it in 10 hours but it was cold
13:11 outside and then the newer G9 has a
13:15 smaller battery 93.1 kW gross capacity
13:18 and Okay, based on the numbers, I try to
13:20 estimate the net capacity and also take
13:24 the the data from my own range test, I
13:26 estimate that it will take 9 hours and
13:28 22 minutes. So, it's quite a big uh
13:31 improvement if I be able to test it
13:33 eventually, you know, the new G9. But
13:36 also, I wonder like what about an ID3
13:40 that has this super battery from CL? A
13:42 50 kWh for example, slightly smaller
13:44 battery than today, but then charges way
13:46 faster. What can you expect then? Well,
13:49 if it charges 10 to 80% in 10 minutes, I
13:51 guess the fast battery, it will do it in 944.
13:53 944.
13:55 And then today's best result is actually
13:58 82 kWh battery, but that's uh kind of
14:00 all outdated a bit. It should charge
14:02 faster nowadays, but that was 1020. I
14:04 think today we might be able to push it
14:06 down to maybe a little bit over 10
14:08 hours, maybe 1010. And then also the 944
14:11 I estimated might be slightly better.
14:14 maybe just 935, 940 because the real
14:16 world is a bit faster if it's a fast
14:18 charging EV. And when it comes to
14:21 degradation though, CL, they have some
14:23 bald claims. They claim that uh after
14:27 200,000 km on typical EVs, you have more
14:29 than 30% degradation. I was like,
14:32 really? And then to look at my own data
14:35 and okay I found out that um we have
14:38 actually many many cars here with uh
14:41 around 200 or maybe even more kilm
14:44 200,000 and they don't have 30%
14:47 degradation they have somewhere between
14:52 uh five and 10 is between five and 15%
14:55 degradation actually yeah the MF that's
14:57 milling the Falcon had a bit higher
14:59 degradation maybe because it was sitting
15:03 too long at the 0% battery. But um I
15:05 think based on this data, you can guess
15:07 that degradation
15:10 uh on cars with big batteries should be
15:13 somewhere between 5 and 10% only after
15:15 200k. And then also if you look at the
15:18 the gross capacity
15:20 uh yeah the the the we have big
15:22 batteries and also the smaller batteries
15:26 even they have okay uh degradation. So
15:28 just take that with a pinch of salt. CL
15:31 they claim less than 9% on their own. So
15:32 I'm not sure how they calculate this.
15:34 Plus that some cars like the i3 are
15:38 tested that is on top with 1.6%. Um
15:41 maybe they they do some trick where they
15:43 hide degradation by eating up some
15:45 buffer. Yeah. Where CL they don't do
15:48 that. But I mean we already have so many
15:51 cars we tested and it can't be that all
15:52 these cars they have a hidden buffer
15:55 that they eat. So it I guess it's reason
15:58 to believe that u the new super battery
16:01 uh charges I mean has um has better
16:03 degradation than before. And then the
16:05 last thing is acceleration. So they they
16:08 claim that at 20% state of charge you
16:12 can go 0 to 100 km/h in 2.5 seconds. So
16:16 again I have test where I have
16:20 accelerated various cars at 90%, 80%,
16:22 70% and so on down to 10%. And I
16:25 measured how the power output uh
16:28 decreases as the battery goes lower and
16:31 lower. And in general I say that um at
16:33 20% state of charge is not where you get
16:34 the biggest dip. You actually get it
16:37 usually at 10%. But uh you have roughly
16:41 10% less power at 20% state of charge.
16:43 And actually when it comes to the Model
16:46 3 SA Plus with the LFP battery, there
16:49 was basically no power drop at 20% or
16:51 even 10%. Some cars, they are like that.
16:52 Maybe because the battery can provide
16:56 more power than the cars demanding. But
16:59 also, so based on the 2.5 second CO200
17:01 time, I guess I have to look on the top
17:05 at Plaid or something uh that they have
17:09 around 100,000 horsepower. So I guess
17:11 that's what they claim that you can
17:16 discharge it at uh yeah 1,000 or 730 kW
17:18 which is around 6.6 6C. Very impressive
17:21 impressive numbers also. But also this
17:24 should mean that if you then make a
17:27 smaller battery, some 50 kWh battery,
17:29 you might be able to pull uh 400
17:32 horsepower from 400 500 horsepower. And
17:34 that means maybe well depending on if
17:36 you want to have a all-wheel drive or or
17:38 not, then you could get a decent power
17:40 output, good acceleration without having
17:43 too big. Nowadays, I feel like in order
17:46 to get 400 uh horsepower, you might have
17:50 like at least 60 70 80 kilowatt hour to
17:52 to get that power without killing the
17:55 battery. This super battery I it sounds
17:58 great and I think it's going to come in
18:00 production and actually be more common
18:02 in cars all over the world simply
18:05 because CL they are so big. And what is
18:08 good is that the LFP battery um they
18:10 don't contain cobalt and cobalt has been
18:14 the the the the argument against EV for
18:15 the longest time because you know cobalt
18:17 comes from Congo and it's politically
18:21 incorrect to use that right but with LFP
18:23 it's better. Yeah. And it's also
18:26 cheaper. So this uh this new battery
18:28 might not cost a fortune, might be
18:31 affordable, but of course the the best
18:33 the cheapest battery that we have heard
18:36 recently is the sodium battery cost only
18:40 $10 per kilowatt hour is when that comes
18:42 out it's going to it's going to change
18:44 the whole world. There will be batteries
18:47 everywhere. I want a home battery, maybe
18:51 200 kWh home or something, you know, but
18:53 uh CL didn't mention anything of that in
18:55 the live stream. So, yeah, I'm still
18:56 wondering what's going to happen with
18:58 the Sony battery, but it from what I've
19:01 seen tried to dig into that the sodium
19:04 battery doesn't have that great energy
19:05 density. So, maybe it's more suitable
19:09 for lowc cost cars or home storage for
19:11 now until they solve the whole thing.
19:13 But the price on the sodium is just
19:15 mindblowingly low compared to the other
19:18 battery tech out there. So yeah, I think
19:19 that's going to be for now. Hope you
19:21 guys enjoyed this video. As always,
19:22 thank you for watching and talk to you later.
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