Call the meeting to order. Please rise
>> To the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice
Hi, good evening everyone. Welcome to
the July 29th planning and zoning
commission meeting.
Start with roll call. >> Carrie
>> Carrie
>> here. Bimble >> present.
>> present. >> Stephenson
>> Stephenson >> here.
>> here. >> Wilhham
>> Wilhham >> here.
>> here. >> Shriber
>> Shriber >> here.
>> here.
Any ceremonies, announcements,
appointments, or presentations tonight?
>> There's none.
any declarations of conflict, exparte
contacts or site visits?
>> I I had somebody a couple weeks ago come
to my house and they were talking I they
were talking about the Spokane Street
and Graange area. I don't even know
which property and some vote coming up.
He was really nice. I told him he had to
come to the planning and zoning to
handle that. Uh but but he he wasn't
aggressive or anything. Um, just wanted
to say his piece. He did say I was the
only commissioner that knew what they
were doing. Everybody else might take
>> That's right. That's it. Uh with regards
to our second public hearing at the G2,
um I'm the engineer for the Ross Point
Water District and so I wanted to
disclose that we've had I've had some
conversations uh with regards or with
the applicant with regards to water man
size in Horse Haven. And so that's
supposed to be to let everyone know
it'll be a 12 in water mane. Um and so
but of course that doesn't really change
the outcome of anything here tonight.
So, um, just wanted to disclose that so
everybody knew what I've heard and note.
>> Okay. Thank you.
All right. Uh,
consent calendar.
>> There is nothing on it.
>> There is nothing on it. All right.
Citizen issues. This, uh, section of the
agenda is reserved for citizens wishing
to address the commission on an item
that is not on the agenda tonight.
Persons wishing to speak will have five
minutes. Anybody have anything they want
to talk about tonight that's not on the agenda?
agenda?
All right, seeing none, we'll move right
along to unfinish or old business.
>> We had nothing on there as well.
>> All right.
Okay. Jump right into public hearings
tonight. If you do want to do uh some
public testimony for any one of these
hearings, make sure you fill out the
paperwork in the back. bring that up
front to Nancy up here and we'll work
through this and you'll have four
minutes of that time. I'll explain how
that'll work once we get to that point.
First hearing tonight is River City
corner special use permit and
subdivision and we'll open up that hearing.
Good evening planning commission. My
name is Justin Solder and tonight before
us we have River City Corners which is
an application for a special use permit
The applicant is requesting approval to
subdivide approximately 4.06 acres into
five commercial lots within the limited
commercial zone and a special use permit
to develop a convenience store with fuel
pumps on one of the proposed parcels. Here
Here
is the project site in red on the
northeast corner of Poland Avenue and
Greens Fairy Road. The project site is
mainly surrounded by residential
development to the northwest and east
with an elementary school directly to
the south. The current land use on site
is a large lot single family residence
Here is the zoning of the subject site.
You can see it's limited commercial as
well as the surrounding parcels which
And first we will talk about the
subdivision plan. So here you can see
there are five different lots proposed
outlined in yellow. There is one
entrance and exit to the project site on
Pine Avenue and there will be another
one on Greens Ferry.
Lot three contains the existing single
family residence and lot three is also
where the convenience store and fuel
pumps will be proposed and we'll get
into those a little later.
So we will go over the review criteria
for the subdivision first. Criteria one
is definite provisions have been made
for water supply system that is adequate
in terms of quantity and quality for the
type of subdivision proposed.
Ross Point Water District has provided a
will serve letter indicating that there
is sufficient capacity and intent to
serve the proposed subdivision.
For criteria two, adequate provisions
have been made for public sewage systems
and that the existing municipal system
can accommodate the proposed sewer
flows. The city has adequate capacity to
provide service to the subdivision as
proposed and the conceptual layout of
the sewer system shows the ability to be served.
Number three, the proposed streets are
consistent with the transportation
element of the comprehensive plan. The
proposed layout of the subdivision is
consistent with the transportation
master plan. Each parcel will be
responsible for maintenance of
landscaping and irrigation as well as
snow removal from public rights of way
adjoining the project site. And there
will also be a relocation of traffic
signal on the northeast corner of Greens
Fairy and Pole Line that will be
coordinated with the developer and the
city through the site plan review process.
All areas of the proposed subdivision
which may involve soil or topographical
topographical conditions presenting
hazards have been identified and that
the proposed uses of these areas are
compatible with such conditions. Um
there are no known soil or topographic
conditions which have been identified as
presenting hazards. There are on-site
septic systems that will be removed upon
development and the Philips 66 pipeline
does run through the proposed
subdivision and there will be a 50-foot
easement proposed over the pipeline that
would be maintained as open space and we
will take a look at this in closer
The area proposed for subdivision is
zoned for the proposed use and the use
conforms to other requirements found in
the code. The subdivision and the
proposed lots conform to the
requirements of title 17 and 18 of the
postfalls municipal code. In addition,
the proposed convenience store with fuel
pumps is an allowed use with the
approval of a special use permit. So, if
the special use permit is approved, this
the proposed subdivision would be
consistent and conforming with the
limited commercial zone and the proposed use.
use.
And finally, for criteria six, impact
fees will be assessed and collected on
individual building permit basis to
assist in mitigating off-site impacts to
parks, public safety, streets,
multimmoal, EMS, and fire systems services.
Here again is the subdivision and again
I just wanted to point out lot three
because that is where we are going to be
focusing on for the special use permit. Here
Here
is the proposed conceptual plan for the
special use permit. Um, you can see that
the main building for the convenience
store is toward the east and the fuel
island and fuel tanks are in the center
of the site and further west. The fuel
Um, you you can also see here the
entrance and exit on Pline Avenue and
then lot three will also be accessible
off of Greens Ferry Road when the full
Now, we will go over the review criteria
for the special use permit. For number
one, implementation of the special use
will or will not conform to the purposes
of the applicable zoning districts. The
limited commercial zone permits
neighborhood compatible commercial
resilo services and uses of modest scale
in areas not conveniently served by
existing or proposed commercially
designated land. A convenience store is
an outright permitted use within the LC
zone, but the proposal of fuel pumps
requires the approval of the special use
permit. The proposed use may provide
some daily needs to the surrounding
residential subdivisions and both Greens
Fairy and Pole line are minor arterials
which can accommodate the anticipated
traffic volumes associated with the gas
station and convenience store.
For number two, we touched on this
briefly already um that a convenience
store is an allowed use by right in the
limited commercial zone. However, a
convenience store with fuel pumps is an
allowable use with the approval of a
special use permit. And that's what you
can see here in the chart from the
For review criteria number three, the
convenience store will be required to
comply with the Department of
Environmental Quality, Coupney County
Fire and Rescue, and the site plan
review process to mitigate risk
associated with the sale and storage of
petroleum products. And through the site
plan review process, a buffer will be
required between the commercial use and
the surrounding residential use to help
reduce potential nuisances such as
noise, light, and odor through setbacks
and landscaping.
Continuing on, criteria three, we'll
talk about transportation. The city's
transportation capital improvement plan
or sorry, the proposed special use is
not anticipated to produce impacts that
would adversely impact adjoining
transportation systems. The current
roadway network has capacity in the
immediate vicinity to facilitate
long-term traffic operations with the
improvements that are proposed or
required as part of the site
development. And the proposed project
will require roadway widening and the
relocation of traffic signals at the
intersection of Pole Line and Greens Fairy.
Fairy.
For water, the site will be connected to
the city's water reclamation facilities
which have capacity to handle the
project. Existing septic systems on site
will be decommissioned and appropriate
sewer fees and connections would be
identified and completed in the site
plan review process. And the city sewer
system has capacity to serve the
convenience store and gas station. For
water, as mentioned previously, Ross
Point has submitted a will serve letter.
And there are existing facilities in
For criteria four, whether the proposed
use will or will not comply with the
goals and policies found within the
comprehensive plan. So now we'll go over
some of those goals and policies. For
goal one, business development at this
location capitalizes on access to
neighborhood commercial opportunities
and may provide opportunities for
employment and services in proximity to
residential uses which may be seen as
providing community prosperity and
fiscal health for goal. Goal three
identifies lowercale walkable small lot
development as being tied to Postfall's
small town scale and feel. And the
proximity of smallcale commercial
services and proximity to residential
zones promotes walkability in this area
and may contribute to the overall small
For goal six, the development of this
parcel would be considered as infill
development and would bring the adjacent
multimmoal transportation infrastructure
up to current standards, including in
street improvements, bike lanes, and
pedestrian pathways. The missing
improvements are a priority need for
access to the school to the south side
of Poline. And we'll get into this more
as well with some photos um on a future
slide. For goal 12, the development of
the property will contribute to the
city's public infrastructure
improvements through payment of impact
fees. And in addition, business
development contributes to overall
fiscal resiliency within the community
Now for some of the policies support
land use patterns. Impact fees will help
maintain or enhance community levels of
service and the proposed business
development contributes to fiscal resiliency
resiliency
as cars are the dominant mode of
transportation within the community.
Petroleum products are a needed
resource. In addition, convenience
stores may provide a number of food and
household products that can be seen as a
valuable resource in the immediate
vicinity. There are no other gas
stations or grocery stores within 3/4
mile of the project site. Also, the
completion of missing segments of
pedestrian and vehicular facilities will
aid with maintaining and enhancing the
level of service for transportation in
this area.
In order to ensure that the development
will be well designed, the project is
subject to the city site plan review
process and required to conform with
both city and state standards. And
through that process, we can also help
ensure the gas station will remain a
compatible use with the surrounding
residential areas by imple implementing
design standards such as buffers and
Here we have a graphic that shows the
project site in the middle of this red
circle. And the circle is approximately
one mile. And this is just representing
where other facilities um that might be
similar to this are within the area. So
to the east at the intersection of
Poland and Highway 41, there is a KICO,
a 7-Eleven, which are both gas stations,
and a grocery outlet, and they're just
about one mile away. The next closest
facility would be located at Walmart
further south on Mullen Aav. And as you
can see, it's just outside of the onem
radius. This graphic can also help
illustrate how the development could be
perceived to fall in line with the small
town feel of Post Falls. Rather than
residents driving out to Highway 41 for
small convenience items, there is
potential to walk within a neighborhood
Policy 3, five, and 8. Um, we have the
convenience store and gas station may
provide daily needs within close
proximity to the neighboring residential
subdivisions. And the site is near the
intersection of Poleine and
Greensferryy, which are both arterial
roads, minor arterials, and the subject
site is an underutilized property and
Policy 25, 26, and 27 are all very
related and talking about improving the
continuity of sidewalks and improving
the overall connectivity of
transportation and pedestrian pathways.
And so development of this property will
include improvements such as a 10-ft
multi-use trail along Pole Line and a
six-foot sidewalk along Greens Ferry and
uh bike lane as well.
Here is a overview of the project site.
And here I just wanted to show that
there are sidewalks on both Greens Ferry
and Pole Line represented with the
orange or yellowish line and then they
stop at the subject site. With this
project being built out, sidewalk would
be continued represented by the red dash
line all the way along the project site.
And now you would have all four corners
being improved and people be able to
walk, you know, from the east on Greens
Ferry all the way to the corner and then
south on Poline or on the same for
Greens Fairy just coming down south on
Pole Line.
Here's another photo kind of showing
that. Here we're on Greens Ferry looking
north. The project site is on the
northeast corner and hopefully you can
kind of see that three of the four
corners are improved with site
improvements. Um, and with this project,
that fourth corner would be improved as well.
well.
Here's a couple more. On the left, we
have Greens Ferry looking south towards
the project site. And if you can see,
there's sidewalk at the base of this
white fence that then dead ends to the
project site. This would be continued
all the way down to the intersection.
And then same on the right photo here,
we have this uh trail that is deadending
into the project site. And this is
looking on pole line west towards the intersection.
Policy 43 talks about uh compliance with
accessibility requirements in accordance
with the American with the Disabilities
Act. So development of the property
would include improvements to the
pedestrian paths as we've just talked
about in compliance with ADA and then
through the site plan review process. Um
all the on-site improvements would be in
compliance with ADA standards as well.
67 promote linking green belts, trails,
and open spaces. We've also kind of
talked to this one. Um, but the
multi-use trail included on pole line
will connect pathways from the site from
the subject site to the neighborhood as
well as the sidewalk on Greens Fairy.
Here is a list of all the agencies that
were notified of the project. And out of
those agencies, we received six
responses. The school district remains
neutral. Kney County Fire and Rescue
will review the project during
permitting or the site plan review
process. Kney County Community
Development did not have any comments.
Postf Falls Police Department remains
neutral. The Yellowstone pipeline does
have vicinity uh facilities within the
project site which we will talk about.
And then for Department of Environmental
Quality, they have specific requirements
for underground storage tanks. And in
their comments, they wanted to put
emphasis on the importance of following
best management practices for petroleum
Here we have the pipeline represented
with a red line. As you can see, it
follows Pole Line and then jogs out onto
the project site through the neighboring
subdivision to the east and then
eventually makes its way back down onto
P line.
And here's the subdivision. So this
green area in the middle of the site
that runs diagonally is actually where
the easement over the pipeline is
proposed. And this is a 50ft easement.
So 25 ft on either side of the pipeline.
And this would be this would remain as
open space.
And then again just to show where the
pipeline is here is the conceptual site
plan for the convenience store. And you
can see that the pipeline is or the fuel
island and the fuel tanks are well out
of the way of where the easement for the
pipeline is currently.
Here's the subdivision review criteria
so we can just have a reference to
review them and the special use permit
review criteria. And then the last thing
I wanted to mention is that upon
granting a special use, the commission
may attach conditions including uh but
not limited to the following here on screen.
screen.
So, that concludes my presentation. I'm
available for questions if you have any.
>> Any questions?
>> Do have a quick one. Um, can you go back
to the site plan, please?
There we go.
Um, I see in the green there that the on
the looks like the east side there's
some buffering. It looks like that green
area, it looks like it's about 20 feet.
Can you speak to what kind of buffering
and landscaping is required to go in
that area? Sure. The requirement is 15
feet and then they have trees and shrubs
that are required at certain intervals.
Um I don't know what all those intervals
are off hand but the buffer itself is a
minimum of 15 ft. What they're actually
depicting here is 15 ft. So then you can
see the building is even set back a
little further from the 15t buffer.
>> Okay. Okay. And the purpose of that is
just so I understand it is to screen
adjoining properties from
>> it's a separation of uses specifically
between a residential single family
residential and commercial uses.
>> So it's a landscape screen basically.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> What's your distance from the back of
the the um convenience store to the
properties in the back?
>> Uh I do not know that offhand. And so
and this um just would be landscape >> correct
>> correct
>> screening also
>> on the east side
>> on the um >> north
>> north
>> north side
>> where the pipeline is. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um
>> Um
>> but there's properties beyond that res
resial north of lot four.
>> North of lot four. Yeah I can go back to
that as well. Yeah. There's landscaping
that 15oot buffer would be all the way
around the project site on the north and
east from the res single family
>> Um am I correct in that Philip 66 and
YPL are the same line?
>> That is my understanding. Correct. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So they're talking about setting
back from that.
Okay. And then um the pedestrian path
that comes along pole line right now
dead ends into that well that's right
there. It's not on this property, but
it's right at that corner. It's shown on
the site plan.
What's the thought process on how to
connect the sidewalk
on this site and that the existing
sidewalk without going through the well?
>> Uh where is the is that a question for
the developer?
>> It might be Rob Paulus might be able to
answer that. >> Okay.
When you were looking at that one
picture looking down pole line, you see
the wellhead and the fence that
surrounds that well.
>> That's right.
>> What you're talking about?
>> Yep. See the the red and white fence there?
there? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Good evening, members of the commission.
Robert Paul, a city engineer. So, we did
take a look at that with the developer
during the preliminary application
process. Um I that well that's there
ideally we would like to see it go away
but there is still users of that well to
the north. Uh there is room and the
lower right P
actually the lower right picture does
not depict it well enough but there is
room that in what would uh typically be
the swale area that the sidewalk or
multi-use path in this case can wrap
around and not get into the roadway and
be between the curb and the fence to uh
connect the two which would allow for
the connect connectivity.
But since that's not on this property,
whose responsibility would that be?
>> They would be responsible for making
that connection in front of the well
well site. >> Okay.
Uh conditions,
recommended conditions.
Saw here a couple questions on the staff
Just trying to understand some of these.
There's seven conditions that were
suggested. Uh proposition number three
is the proposed subdivision must be
completed in a single phase. Does that
mean that all of the
site work is done or how does that what
is that? require for the subdivision all
the frontage improvements would need to
be completed.
>> So just frontage improvements, not
necessarily the internal road.
>> The the internal access point um would
be a requirement with the actual site
plan review of the um proposed
convenience store with gas station, but
that's not a subdivision requirement. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
And then um
uh number seven was landscaping plans.
So the landscaping plans, street trees,
street trees should be planted by a
developer in spring following
construction of homes. I'm assuming that
means following construction of buildings,
buildings,
not necessarily houses,
but yes, with each but would they are
they going to be required to put in these
these
the landscape buffers the landscaping
itself along the street and around the
perimeter of the property before they
sell those individual lots or is it just
when actually somebody comes forward and
is developing that lot?
>> I will let planning answer that site
plan related question.
>> So, typically with a subdivision
um commercial subdivisions, they
generally form a property owners
association to maintain street trees
that are on the public rideway. Um this
right here, we generally
I don't know how this is prior to plat
how it's currently foreseen to be
managed. either is it going to be done
lot by lot or through a properties
owners association that is not been
relayed to me in planning it >> okay
>> what's it no it's talking about the
street trees
>> well all the approvements
>> street tree street trees shall be
planted by the developer in the spring
and fall following conditions so in
speaking to street trees they are done
either two ways they are either done
through a property owners association or
they're done by the adjacent property
and connected to each property to
develop as part of the site plan review.
And I'm just admitting right now I do
not know the preference nor been
informed on how that plan is to be done. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Maybe the applicant should shed could
shed a light on that aspect. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay. Am I understanding right then the
developer is only going to develop the
gas station piece. The other three
pieces aren't going to be developed and
possibly be sold or something. Is that
what I'm understanding?
>> Yeah. Currently, right now, you are
getting an a special use permit just for
lot three for that particular use.
You're also being requested to create
five lots. One of the lots, lot three is
the one with the special use permit. The
other four remaining lots will be
available to market and develop
consistent with all the permitted uses
that are allowed in the limited
commercial zone
>> for them to develop and or sell. >> Correct.
>> Correct.
Can you remind me how this lot became
>> There was an annexation in 2018 and it
would became limited commercial at that time.
time.
>> And why
I'm trying to remember why was R1 not
considered considering R1's everywhere else?
else?
might be able to from what I recollect
right now he's looking at the future
land use map to see if there's a
commercial note I don't believe there is
on that but when you look at the the
rightway that goes through that the
easement that's encumbers the property
with the gas line at the time of
annexation they looked at different
viabil uses with residential around that
with the rightway that be dedicated for
the that there it at the time of
annexation didn't seem like a good
viable option for them to put a
residential project. Plus, the time we
didn't necessarily have the cottage
home, the tiny home, and the other
options at the time for annexation that
are now available for annexation
requests. But this did, like Justin
said, um limited commercial was proposed
in 2018 and that's how it was brought
in. Then I
I
>> think if I remember right, it was one of
the arguments that they had for that was
one that the the angle of the pipeline
going through the property made it
pretty much impossible to develop a
single family. So it was either going to
be multif family or some sort of a
limited commercial. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And they even spoke to the fact that
there'd be a spot for a convenience
store would be a nice spot for being
close to the high school and whatnot
like that. So that was that was part of
their sales pitch. True. And then in
2018, we could do multif family and
limited commercial. That was an option.
Since 2018, we did remove multif family
as an option. So
>> I have a question. How many kids go to
that grade school?
>> That is a great question. I do not know.
>> It should be >> answer.
>> Might be in the comments from the school district.
district.
>> Yeah, it'll be in there.
>> It'll be last year's numbers, but it
350.
>> Sorry, what was that? >> Three
>> Three >> 350.
>> 350. >> 350.
>> 350.
>> High school, 1600.
>> We got 2,000 kids there and 1,600 of
them got cars.
>> Okay. I don't think that many.
>> Well, however, 800 then.
Any other questions?
All righty. Thank you. We got the
Name for the record, please.
>> Hi, I'm uh Nick Edner with Ace Solutions.
Solutions.
This is Kevin Stouse, also with Ace Solutions.
>> What's that?
>> Do you know where mine would be?
>> Brought it with me just in case.
right.
So again, yeah, I am uh Nick Edner.
We're here with Ace Solutions on behalf
of the owner uh Tony Marman. Uh River
City Corners, as was as mentioned, is a
4.06 06 acre lot at this uh intersection
of P line and Greens Ferry.
Uh currently it's within the city of
Post Falls zone limited commercial.
We're proposing five lots an average of
081 acres per lot.
Uh for utilities as mentioned there's existing
existing
uh city of Post Falls sewer lines within
both Greensferry and Pole line. Those
yellow lines on there represent rough
location of those sewer lines and the
brown is the water lines from Ross
Point. There's a 12-in water line at
Greens Ferry and a 6 in through at Pole
line. And then as mentioned also, we
have the Philip 66 gas line that runs
through the site that ends up forming a
lot of our future lot lines.
Uh here's our rough here's our layout
that we have so far. Uh we've got uh
like I said five lots. Our smallest lot
is lot one there. It's about 13 uh 250
square ft which is just under a third of
an acre. Our largest is lot three uh at 57500
57500
give or take and 1.3 acres. Uh as part
of our development, we'll be widening at
both pole line and greens ferry and then
we'll be installing 10-ft path extension
on pole line. Currently the as uh Mr.
Paulus mentioned the idea is that we
will go around the well at uh the poor
the poor boys uh water association. We
have been in some contact with them and
we have found out as Mr. Pace mentioned
that they are still using that well. Um
and uh yeah, we'll be doing a 5-ft um
sidewalk along Greens Ferry connecting
the existing and providing that last uh
connection at that intersection.
Um the uh lots bordering the residential
have a required 15t separation as
mentioned and currently also they are
also required to have a burm or fence as
part of that visual separation. So, not
only do they have to have trees, but
they need to have a um some sort of
vertical separation with a fence or burm
or combination.
>> So, would that burm or fence be not be
the existing fences there, but a new one?
one?
>> I believe the existing one is a chain
link fence. So, um no, it would need it
would need to have sight obscuring. So,
either Okay. um they would need to
provide slats and that or or probably
you know with all the site work to be
done it probably will need to be taken
out and put back in with something more
sight of securing anyway. So yeah
and then yeah as mentioned uh the the
special use is going to be occurring
currently on lot three. Uh the the
reason it is special use is as per as uh
as mentioned is because it has gasoline.
Uh it's be a convenience store with gas
gas station. Um we have done had some
initial discussions with the city in
terms of safety uh in terms of having
the fuel um being being where it's
located. Uh there's we cannot uh find
any local requirements from either DEEQ
or Kney County Fire and Rescue in terms
of how far it can be from a school. Um,
we we were able to locate a EPA recommendation.
recommendation.
It is of a,000 ft for four gas stations
that are planning to dispense more than
3.6 million gallons of gas. Now, I did a
little bit of research. The average gas
station only sells 1.1 million gallons
of gas. And this gas station is going to
have four islands with maybe eight
spots. I uh do not know what they're
anticipating for gas sales, but I would
imagine it's going to be hard for them
to to get 3.6 million or more. It sounds
like a very large station would be
yeah,
and I think that is all that I have for
now. There any questions? >> Questions?
In regards to the Philip 66 letter
that's in our packet, what conversations
have you had with this? Because this
says it may conflict with your proposed plan.
plan.
>> Yeah, we've had numerous conversations
with them already. We think what
happened is that this email got sent to
a different department within Philip 66,
but we've had we've had lots of
conversations um with them in terms of
both the location of where we can build
a building uh which they're happy with
and also with where the crossing is
because at um our last see if I can go
back to it at we've got the road that
will cross over the the line up here in
the the north side of lot three. uh they
have some requirements in terms of the
the casing either the casing of the
line. We've already done some initial
potholeing to determine how deep it is
and we've kind of come up with a with an
initial design of how we're going to
cross that line and they're so far
they're happy with everything. So, >> okay.
>> okay.
>> Okay. Thank you.
All right. Do public testimony now. If
you haven't and you still want to speak,
make sure you failed the paperwork.
Bring it up front to Nancy here. Uh so
the way this will work is everybody will
get four minutes to speak if they like
or I'll read their comments. Uh there is
not a uh a Q&A. If you have specific
questions for the developer, the
developer does have a certain amount of
time after public testimony to answer
those questions. So, if you have
questions, ask them. They will answer
them uh shortly after all the public
testimony. So, there is no back and
forth uh during this. So, just allow
everyone to to speak their mind. You'll
have four minutes. Uh Mr. Manley, how is this
this
clock working now? John,
>> how's this clock working now? Obviously,
I see something back there. Is there
something down here or how? >> No.
>> No.
>> Nancy's uh running the clock from over
there and then
>> they should see it on the on their
laptop too, correct? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, there's going to be a clock on the laptop.
laptop.
>> There should be one.
>> There's a timer on my iPad.
>> There's a timer on the iPad.
>> On the podium.
>> Okay. It's all new. We had a clock last
week, but Okay.
>> It's right here. >> Cool.
>> Cool.
>> And then NY's running that
>> and now it's upside down. There we go. Cool.
Cool.
All right. All right. Cool. So, the time
will be right in front of you so you'll
know how much time you have left. Um, if
I if you do run over and I do interrupt
you, it's just to let you know your
time's up. So, with that being said,
we'll go into public comments here.
Uh, not wishing to speak in opposition.
Megan Frederick, see attached letter.
Chase. Okay. Last name throwing me off.
All right.
To whom it may concern, I'm going to
read this into the record here. I'm
writing to express my deep concern in
strong opposition to the proposed
commercial development at the 4acre lot
less than 500 ft from my house. I
understand the current plan is to divide
it into parcels into five commercial
lots, including construction of a gas
station. and I urge you to reconsider
this proposal due the significant and
lasting negative impacts it would have
on our neighborhood, our property values
and safety and well-being of the nearby
families and children. Devaluation of
property and quality of life. Our
neighborhood is quiet residential area
characterized by family homes, green
space, and peaceful atmosphere.
Introducing a hightraic commercial
business, especially a gas station, will
erode this character. Numerous studies
have shown that homes located near gas
stations experience a drop in property
value sometimes to the amount of 5 to
15. The increased noise, traffic, light,
and air pollution
will also will make our area less
desirable for families and future buyers
and directly harming the investment we
made in our homes. Safety concerns. Gas
station near an oil pipeline. The
presence of an underground oil pipeline
on or near the proposed development site
raises serious safety con concerns.
Construction of a gas station is
inherently hazardous facility involving
fuel storage tanks and constant
refueling activity.
So close to a pressurized oil pipeline
significantly increases the risk of fire
explosion and environmental
contamination. Even a minor incident
could have catastrophic consequences,
not just for those in the at the
station, but for the homes in the vicinity.
vicinity.
Environmental and health risk. Gas
stations introduce a variety of
pollutants into the local environment,
including volatile organic compounds
from fuel vapors, potential leaks from
underground storage tanks, and
contaminated storm water runoff. These
pollutants can affect the local air and
water quality
especially troubling giving the
proximity to residential homes,
children, pets,
and sensitive individuals. Long-term exposure
exposure
to these VOCC's
VOCC's
has been linked to respiratory issues
and serious health concerns.
increase traffic and noise. The influx
of vehicles associated with multiple
commercial lots, especially a gas
station, will dramatically
uh drastically increase the traffic
volume of nearby roads not designed to
accommodate commercial traffic.
This raises the potential for accidents
endangering pedestrians and disrupts the
quiet and safe streets of our family
that our families currently enjoy.
Proximity to school pro proposes
additional risks. The proposed
development is dangerously close to a
high school and elementary school, which
raises many red flags, including traffic
near school zones, puts young
pedestrians and student drivers at
greater risk
uh potentially, particularly during high
traffic drop off, and pickup hours. In
addition, the presence of gas stations
so close to the school introduces
exposure to harmful air pollutants for
children. Those developing lungs are especially
especially
vulnerable. It's not only health resist
health risk, but a public safety
oversight. There's tobacco and alcohol
sold at gas stations so close to a
school. Mismatch with zoning and
community vision. This type of high
impact commercial development is
incompatible with the surrounding
residential areas and long-term vision
of the community. has uphold it
threatens to set a precedent for the
future. Encroachment of commercial area
commercial uses in the residential areas
and further degrading the community
fabric. In summary, allowing this
development to proceed would
irreversibly damage and the value,
safety, livability of our neighborhood.
I strongly urge you to prioritize the
well-being of families and friends who
built their lives here to reject the
Did you get the second name on there?
>> The second name? >> Yes,
>> Yes,
>> that was Megan Frederick and Chase Setsler.
All right. Wishing to speak in
>> It says see attachment.
>> Is that something when I'm done? I'm
going to read it and then I'll hand it
to you.
>> I'd like it. Somebody else could read.
That's great.
>> My name is Mary Joe McNell and I live in
Post Falls. Thank you for this
opportunity to speak with you today. I
would like to address the proposed gas
station and convenience store on the
northeast corner of Pole Line and Greens
Fairy called River City Corners. My
initial reaction to reading this was why
would they want to put a gas station
right across the street from an
elementary school. I'm concerned about
the public safety of for the children
who attend that school.
Gas stations are fire hazards and
explosion hazards, not to mention
magnets for robberies and other criminal activities.
activities.
I just think it's a very bad idea to put
one on that corner with children in such
close proximity.
This is a residential area. I live a
half a mile from there as the crow
flies. It is a a busy enough
intersection already and that's before
you are allowing an additional 700
housing units just a half a mile to the north.
north.
that that intersection is a dangerous
intersection as it is.
There are a myriad of gas stations just
over over on Highway 41. And I will make
a comment that he said that it was
Walmart and the one on the corner and
then the 7-Eleven. There's also a new
one going in on Hope and 41, a huge one
going in there. So, we have plenty of
gas stations.
Um, and I see absolutely no reason for
putting one smack dab in the middle of a
residential area and so close to three
different schools because there's the
high school, the elementary school, and
then just down the street there's that
other elementary school. I don't care
that it is a limited commercial zone.
That can be changed. I see you plan to
divide it into five commercial lots. I
think the city needs to reszone it it
residential and leave the commercial
properties over onto Highway 41. Please
do not let this corner um allow this
corner to become a gas station and
convenience store. And who else knows
what might go on the remaining lots?
Thank you again for your time.
>> Thank you. >> Thanks.
All right. Wishing to speak in
My name is Dustin Anderson. Um, first
question I have is there any way for us
uh as a community to veto the SCP for
>> I mean, that's what
>> that's what that's what this all is.
Okay. So, what what what do my big
question is what can we do as a
community uh to help you guys understand
that this is a bad idea?
>> What you're doing right now.
>> Okay. Well, this isn't enough people. Do
you need more signatures? Do you need
more people to hear from to to know that
this is a a a problem? Because this was
a surprise for everybody when we got it
in the mail. So, um, do you need more?
Because I there's a lot of families that
are willing to do what it takes to let
you guys understand this is a bad decision.
>> Ma'am, no. Okay. I >> No,
>> No,
>> it's posted. The property's been posted
with all the notices that can answer.
>> Okay, this is it's not a question and
answer. It is posted. It's on the
website there. That sign's been up there
and I know people and this has always
come up. So, if you have specific
questions, you know, tonight's the night
for the hearing. We'll see what happens tonight.
tonight.
Goes forward, goes backwards, I don't know.
know.
>> Um you can ask specific questions if you
and uh we can't really go have this back
and forth because we could go back
forward all night long.
>> Okay. So this
>> you have questions for the developer,
ask those. They can answer in the
rebuttal period, but we're not going to
have this back and forth. And please, no
questions from the audience.
>> Okay. So I asked the developer that
question then. Is that what you're
saying? So because that was a that was
my question.
>> I mean the hearing is tonight. So
>> this is the only possibility for anybody
to speak.
>> It depends on what happens tonight.
Okay. I mean,
>> um, so on that behalf, I strongly would
urge you guys to please, like it was
said, it's already a busy intersection.
Uh, it gets crazy around that area.
There's tons of kids, tons of people
there. Who cares about it being a small
town vibe. That's why we moved here.
That's why we live here. It doesn't have
to be, you don't have to bring the city
life to the middle of a residential area
for us to feel some type of way.
Especially a gas station, that's not
going to do it. And the commercial lots
are one thing. It's going to be looking
right down into our property. It's going
to decrease our property value a lot.
And to be honest with you, uh it it'd be
awesome if you guys can really look at
this and think to yourselves, is this
really a good idea when there's gas
stations literally right down the
street. They just built new ones. We
don't need anymore in that area. So, um
that's all I have to say. Please
reconsider it.
>> Okay. Thank you.
All right. Wishing to speak neutral.
Is it Byron Stark?
I say that right.
>> Do I just have something for the time on
this or
>> I think she's got
>> Okay, perfect.
>> somehow remote control.
>> Okay. I just wanted to say thank you for
letting me speak first and foremost. Um,
I just had a couple of questions. Well,
I know this isn't really Q&A, but just
for the developer and kind of the
history of, you know, that area. Um, I'm
pretty sure that anyone here could, you
know, go on Google and look and see the
amount of traffic fatalities that
happened right along Greens Ferry. Um, I
mean, last year we had uh what was it?
An 8-year-old kid got hit right outside
the school zone by someone that wasn't
paying attention. Couple years back a
15-year-old with a bike and then a
10-year-old girl. And then 2016 there
was another incident. So my big question
for the developer in that regards is
what is going to be done mitigation wise
because a commercial area right next to
a hightra school zone is in my opinion
never really like a good idea except if
there's mitigation there. Um if there's
some sort of plan to allocate for that.
Um so I'm just wondering like planning
wise what's being done to offset the
safety concerns. I'm sure that everyone
is wondering about here. Um, and kind of
just like in general, um, again with
that history of, you know, traffic
fatalities, you can look up article
after article after article and, you
know, is there is this is a safety zone
like is a school zone going to be
increased or is there going to be some
sort of officer station by to make sure
the kids are getting out of school safe,
you know? So what is being done
mitigationwise to alleviate um you know
concerned parents, concerned citizens,
people who live in that area and who
have lost people who have died uh in
that area to people who are again going
over the speed limit, not paying
attention and right having a commercial
area which is going to be a hightra
area. It's less about to me about the um
you know gas hazard and fire hazard and
more about the proximity of it being
right next to um an educational
facility. I mean you had issues with the
elementary school, the Prairie
Elementary School, that's where those
young kids passed away, but you also or
got injured. And then you also have the
high school that's right next door as
well. And then you have the real life
church a couple blocks down which is a
40,000 um member congregation over
there. It's a very big institution. So
there's a lot of children, a lot of
teenagers, a lot of middle schoolers
kind of all running around there. So my
big concern for that development is the
proximity of the residential area right
next to a commercial area. What's going
All right. Not wishing to speak in opposition.
I'm going to butcher this first name.
McKay Christensen.
Thank you.
Uh there are concerns of increased
traffic throughout the neighborhood.
concern concerns being three schools in
the area and again resulting in heavy
traffic. Another concern being my back
fence faces zone three with crime
increasing. This is two worrisome. Two
years ago I spoke with Mr. Wilhelm about
adding a walkway sidewalk to the east
side agree. He said not a chance. Please
say not a chance here. Thank you.
Um, some they spoke with you two years
ago about adding a walkway and sidewalk
to the east side of Greens Fairy and you
So,
uh, wishing to speak in opposition,
Hi.
>> I actually came here for a different pl
for a different thing. So, I'm actually
really surprised about this one, which
is terrifying, quite honestly. Uh, and
by the way, there's not three school.
There's four schools right there. So,
there's a STEM school that's in the
TLore district right there. I don't know
if anybody remembers that one, but so
there's a high school, there's the
elementary school that my grandchildren
who live with me go to right across the
street from where they're planning on
putting it. And then there's one just
down the street. So that's four schools,
not three. And it's honestly that's
terrifying. There's
when you say not a chance, like that's
literally the thing that I'm saying in
my head like not a chance do I want that
there at all. like whoever wrote the
first letter, bravo. And everybody else
who spoke against it, yes, bravo. But
that first letter, 100% every single
thing. And uh but yes, the the safety of
those kids and walking
is terrifying to have a convenience
store and a gas station right there.
Property values, all of that. Yes. But
for the kids safety, no. I do not want
that there. No, my neighbors do not want
that. I'm like texting my neighbors at
the same time like, "Oh my gosh, I wish
you guys are all off work right now
because this is not something that we
And when he said something about 1,000
ft is what the recommendation is, what
is it? 100 foot across the street from
an elementary school and then maybe a
Come on, you guys. No, we don't need a
gas station there. We don't need it. We
really don't even need a convenience
store there. I'd rather have a house
there than I would a convenience store
and a gas station by all means. Like, we
can all go a mile and there's two of
them right there. And there's a gas
station right there. Gas station right
there. Convenience store. Convenience
store. and another store. That's all
within one mile
and all on a highway. We don't need it
in the middle of our street right there.
So, thank you.
Hello. I'd just like to respond to a few
of a few of the comments. Um, first of
all, uh, as we mentioned, we will be
widening that corner intersection. Um, that'll,
that'll,
uh, include completing the crosswalks at
Greens Ferry and Pole Line. And uh the
city may require uh additional
requirements along our our two points of
entry. Um and we're happy to comply with
those as needed if it needs to be
painted um painted with crosswalks or
painted with uh crossing stripes,
whatever whatever is needed, we're happy
to comply.
Um, and we just also like to highlight
too that um along with uh with what's
been proposed for lot three, there are
other possibilities for uh limited
commercial within the other lots. Um
limited commercial could be anything
from a uh another could be anything from
a coffee stand to a floor shop. All
those things could be could be on that
corner as well as uh what's been
currently proposed at the gas station.
So um and uh the other question about
how far away is it uh it is roughly 500
ft uh doortodoor from where the gas
station will be to the front door of
that of the school. Um so thank you. All
Close out the hearing and we'll go look
at our review criteria. do some deliberation.
deliberation.
>> Mr. Chairman, really quick. Um, Chris,
would you mind kind of speaking? We have
a lot more people in the audience than
we normally do. Can you kind of speak to
a little bit about what our job here is
and what what us as a commission is
supposed to be doing because there's we
want to make sure that everyone understands.
understands.
>> Yes, sir. So,
obviously tonight we have two actions
for consideration in front of the board. uh one is a subdivision request from one
uh one is a subdivision request from one lot into five lots in a limited
lot into five lots in a limited commercial zone. The limited commercial
commercial zone. The limited commercial zone is already established. The
zone is already established. The commission is not making a
commission is not making a recommendation on any zone changes. In
recommendation on any zone changes. In the limited commercial zone, there are
the limited commercial zone, there are certain commercial uses that are
certain commercial uses that are permitted outright. That is the
permitted outright. That is the applicant doesn't need request from the
applicant doesn't need request from the this commission to do those permitted
this commission to do those permitted uses. uh there's a list of them in the
uses. uh there's a list of them in the city code and they range from any number
city code and they range from any number of things. Uh so that is the first
of things. Uh so that is the first action is is the subdivision.
action is is the subdivision. Usually those are fairly mechanical uh
Usually those are fairly mechanical uh decisions. Uh and if an applicant meets
decisions. Uh and if an applicant meets the criteria, they're generally entitled
the criteria, they're generally entitled to request uh the subdivision
to request uh the subdivision consideration. Uh the second action
consideration. Uh the second action tonight is the uh special use permit
tonight is the uh special use permit which is really limited to the only only
which is really limited to the only only the fact that the proposed convenience
the fact that the proposed convenience store location would like gas station in
store location would like gas station in our code. A convenience store is a
our code. A convenience store is a permitted outright use but a convenience
permitted outright use but a convenience store with gas facilities is a special
store with gas facilities is a special use permit. And under the special use
use permit. And under the special use permit which is also before this
permit which is also before this commission we have limited criteria u
commission we have limited criteria u established by our code and we go
established by our code and we go through and decide whether or not the
through and decide whether or not the special use is permitted or not with our
special use is permitted or not with our four criteria that our staff outlined
four criteria that our staff outlined before. So, um there are certain rights
before. So, um there are certain rights that are somewhat uh
that are somewhat uh set in our code and there are certain
set in our code and there are certain parts where we have some discretion uh
parts where we have some discretion uh and we'll go through those criteria uh
and we'll go through those criteria uh in more detail here as the commission
in more detail here as the commission deliberates.
deliberates. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Does that help?
>> Does that help? >> It it does. Thank you.
>> It it does. Thank you. So,
So, uh, depending on how you folks would
uh, depending on how you folks would like to move forward, um, the
like to move forward, um, the subdivision approval can occur whether
subdivision approval can occur whether or not the special use permit one is not
or not the special use permit one is not conditioned on the other. Obviously, the
conditioned on the other. Obviously, the special use permit would be conditioned
special use permit would be conditioned on the subdivision approval. So,
on the subdivision approval. So, depending on what your brothers are,
depending on what your brothers are, which one would you like to hear first?
which one would you like to hear first? I would recommend we address the special
I would recommend we address the special use permit first because that's kind of
use permit first because that's kind of the way we do things. We usually wrap up
the way we do things. We usually wrap up with a subdivision approval criteria,
with a subdivision approval criteria, but
but I'm I'm open to either suggestion
I'm I'm open to either suggestion tonight.
tonight. >> No, that's that's fine.
>> No, that's that's fine. >> I I would rather go the other way.
>> I I would rather go the other way. >> You want to go subdivision first? Divide
>> You want to go subdivision first? Divide look at the division of lots and then
look at the division of lots and then decide on lot three whether or not a
decide on lot three whether or not a special use permit would be granted for
special use permit would be granted for that. Maybe that makes more sense.
that. Maybe that makes more sense. >> That would be my recommendation.
>> That would be my recommendation. >> All right, let's do that then.
>> All right, let's do that then. >> Anybody else go with that?
>> Anybody else go with that? >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> All right.
>> All right. >> All right. Uh, River City Corners
>> All right. Uh, River City Corners subdivision 25-1.
subdivision 25-1. Uh, the request tonight is to look at a
Uh, the request tonight is to look at a division of a 4.06 acre parcel into five
division of a 4.06 acre parcel into five lots. It is already annexed into this
lots. It is already annexed into this city. It has limited commercial zoning.
city. It has limited commercial zoning. Uh, so review criteria number one, uh,
Uh, so review criteria number one, uh, whether diff is up on the board for you.
whether diff is up on the board for you. whether definite provision has been made
whether definite provision has been made for water supply adequate in terms of
for water supply adequate in terms of quantity and quality for the type of
quantity and quality for the type of subdivision proposed. Uh again, a
subdivision proposed. Uh again, a limited commercial subdivision.
limited commercial subdivision. >> Ross points the water provider. They've
>> Ross points the water provider. They've raised no concerns about supply there
raised no concerns about supply there and the existence of uh lines already to
and the existence of uh lines already to the property. I don't see any issue with
the property. I don't see any issue with >> Okay, I'm getting agreement on that one.
>> Okay, I'm getting agreement on that one. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Agreed. Yeah. Uh number two, adequate
>> Agreed. Yeah. Uh number two, adequate provisions have been made for a public
provisions have been made for a public sewage system and that the existing
sewage system and that the existing municipal system or private system I
municipal system or private system I suppose can accommodate the proposed
suppose can accommodate the proposed sewer flows.
sewer flows. >> Yeah, the city approved it.
>> Yeah, the city approved it. >> And on this criteria again, the city has
>> And on this criteria again, the city has indicated a well- served letter or has
indicated a well- served letter or has capacity. So these ones are fairly
capacity. So these ones are fairly mechanical. Uh number three, whether
mechanical. Uh number three, whether proposed streets are consistent with the
proposed streets are consistent with the transportation element of the
transportation element of the comprehensive plan. I think this is
comprehensive plan. I think this is probably one of the biggest parts of
probably one of the biggest parts of this is that both of them both streets
this is that both of them both streets are minor or yeah minor arterials I
are minor or yeah minor arterials I think um and
think um and this is the last quadrant of that
this is the last quadrant of that intersection to come forward and
intersection to come forward and develop. So this is a very very
develop. So this is a very very important part of the capacity of that
important part of the capacity of that intersection. So it's it's fairly major
intersection. So it's it's fairly major intersection. Uh Greens Fair is um
intersection. Uh Greens Fair is um eventually going to be five l or is five
eventually going to be five l or is five lanes or designed for five lanes and
lanes or designed for five lanes and pulling is as well. So um having that be
pulling is as well. So um having that be able to complete the transportation
able to complete the transportation um improvements for that is incredibly
um improvements for that is incredibly important. Um, it also provides a
important. Um, it also provides a pedestrian link
pedestrian link that is very, very important to get kids
that is very, very important to get kids down from the west side or excuse me,
down from the west side or excuse me, the east side of Greens Fairy um down on
the east side of Greens Fairy um down on a sidewalk or pathway to the
a sidewalk or pathway to the intersection so they can safely cross
intersection so they can safely cross um pull line to get to school and not
um pull line to get to school and not have to go down to the midblock
have to go down to the midblock crossing.
crossing. um that even though it does have a rapid
um that even though it does have a rapid flashing beacon, um those are never as
flashing beacon, um those are never as effective as intersections with traffic
effective as intersections with traffic signals for pedestrian crossings. And so
signals for pedestrian crossings. And so this is consistent um with the
this is consistent um with the transportation element. And there's
transportation element. And there's actually no internal streets. It's just
actually no internal streets. It's just all external streets, which is a huge
all external streets, which is a huge benefit uh to our community.
benefit uh to our community. >> Widen end up widening both streets, end
>> Widen end up widening both streets, end up creating uh pedestrian pathways on
up creating uh pedestrian pathways on both streets that are separated from
both streets that are separated from traffic. via that landscape buffer,
traffic. via that landscape buffer, swale, whatever.
swale, whatever. >> It's a It's a big safety improvement.
>> It's a It's a big safety improvement. >> Okay.
>> Okay. And and on that one, I don't think there was any real testimony about the
there was any real testimony about the internal structure or the driveways or
internal structure or the driveways or anything else. Um that's all going to be
anything else. Um that's all going to be privately maintained and everything
privately maintained and everything else. So internal to the subdivision.
else. So internal to the subdivision. Those aren't going to be public roads or
Those aren't going to be public roads or dedicated,
dedicated, >> right? They're just cross access
>> right? They're just cross access easements.
>> All right. Number four. Number four. Um, all areas of the proposed subdivision
all areas of the proposed subdivision involving soil or topographical
involving soil or topographical conditions presenting hazards have been
conditions presenting hazards have been identified and the pro proposed uses of
identified and the pro proposed uses of these areas are compatible with such
these areas are compatible with such conditions.
conditions. I think the only hazard that was
I think the only hazard that was identified is the pipeline and its
identified is the pipeline and its location and
location and Philip 66 uh Yellowstone pipeline people
Philip 66 uh Yellowstone pipeline people are are seem like they're they're being
are are seem like they're they're being um dealt with by just giving them a 50
um dealt with by just giving them a 50 foot wide easement green space around
foot wide easement green space around their their infrastructure. So that
their their infrastructure. So that generally takes care of that and they've
generally takes care of that and they've got special crossing
got special crossing conditions that are being met by the
conditions that are being met by the developer. So um I think that's the only
developer. So um I think that's the only thing that's there and it's being
thing that's there and it's being adequately identified
adequately identified and mitigated.
>> Agreed. Okay, thank you. Uh number five, the uh area for the proposed for the
the uh area for the proposed for the subdivision is zoned for the proposed
subdivision is zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms to other
use and the use conforms to other requirements found in the code.
requirements found in the code. I
I >> think this is one where there's kind of
>> think this is one where there's kind of some misunderstanding. So the property
some misunderstanding. So the property is zoned limited commercial now.
is zoned limited commercial now. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Right.
>> Right. >> The subdivision doesn't change that. It
>> The subdivision doesn't change that. It doesn't change what the uses of that
doesn't change what the uses of that site, what the
site, what the permitted uses of that site are. So I
permitted uses of that site are. So I don't have any issue with the
don't have any issue with the subdivision itself.
subdivision itself. >> All right. I mean, as it as it stands
>> All right. I mean, as it as it stands right now today, they could go and put
right now today, they could go and put five different buildings or six
five different buildings or six different buildings on the one parcel.
different buildings on the one parcel. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> The only thing a subdivision does is
>> The only thing a subdivision does is allows different ownership.
allows different ownership. >> Correct.
>> Correct. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> They could technically lease pads if
>> They could technically lease pads if they wanted to on one on one parcel.
they wanted to on one on one parcel. >> Yep.
Uh and finally, number six, uh the de developer has made adequate plans to
developer has made adequate plans to ensure the community bears no more than
ensure the community bears no more than its fair share of cost to provide the
its fair share of cost to provide the service by paying fees or otherwise.
>> Yeah, they're responsible for all the impact fees and
impact fees and doing off-site improvements.
doing off-site improvements. >> Yeah, they're they're frontage
>> Yeah, they're they're frontage improvements are particularly costly to
improvements are particularly costly to be honest. I mean, that's an expensive
be honest. I mean, that's an expensive corner to develop and they even got to
corner to develop and they even got to move a traffic signal mast arm.
move a traffic signal mast arm. Yeah. Between the the street widening,
Yeah. Between the the street widening, those the dedications that are required
those the dedications that are required for that, the improvements along the
for that, the improvements along the street, and then the impact fees, that's
street, and then the impact fees, that's substantial cost.
substantial cost. >> It's substantial. It probably more than
>> It's substantial. It probably more than covers their impact. Yeah,
covers their impact. Yeah, >> I mean impact fees are meant to cover
>> I mean impact fees are meant to cover all their impacts and they're also the
all their impacts and they're also the adjoining
adjoining infrastructure development is pretty
infrastructure development is pretty extensive relatively speaking.
extensive relatively speaking. Okay, that's all I had. Commissioners,
Okay, that's all I had. Commissioners, now we did have some recommendations on
now we did have some recommendations on this, but it sounds like the
this, but it sounds like the recommendations were tied to both. So,
recommendations were tied to both. So, uh, we can go ahead and deliberate on
uh, we can go ahead and deliberate on the subdivision approval, uh, at this
the subdivision approval, uh, at this point and then circle back around on,
point and then circle back around on, um, I think there's seven
um, I think there's seven recommendations for both PUD and
recommendations for both PUD and subdivision conditions. Um, I don't know
subdivision conditions. Um, I don't know that any of them were specific to the
that any of them were specific to the PUD specifically. So the conditions are
PUD specifically. So the conditions are one through seven and with the exception
one through seven and with the exception of number seven being following
of number seven being following construction of the I'd say uh not homes
construction of the I'd say uh not homes that's obviously a transplant but uh
that's obviously a transplant but uh street trees shall be planted by the
street trees shall be planted by the developer in the spring and fall
developer in the spring and fall following construction of the sites make
following construction of the sites make that modification.
that modification. Um but I don't know that any of these
Um but I don't know that any of these were
were >> so specific to the PUD
>> so specific to the PUD >> but is this a PUD?
>> but is this a PUD? >> I'm sorry. Excuse me.
>> I'm sorry. Excuse me. >> Special use permit SU or a typo in the
>> Special use permit SU or a typo in the staff report. I misread that. I
staff report. I misread that. I apologize. I correctly read it, but I
apologize. I correctly read it, but I was
was >> in reading through these conditions.
>> in reading through these conditions. My opinion is all seven of these
My opinion is all seven of these conditions apply to the subdivision.
conditions apply to the subdivision. >> That's the intent. The intent of the
>> That's the intent. The intent of the section is um to go apply these
section is um to go apply these conditions to the subdivision of which
conditions to the subdivision of which then you could um as Justin elaborated,
then you could um as Justin elaborated, we have those six arenas. When you get
we have those six arenas. When you get in here the special use permit, you
in here the special use permit, you technically can apply special conditions
technically can apply special conditions beyond what code would otherwise require
beyond what code would otherwise require to that special use permit if there was
to that special use permit if there was a a way that you guys wanted to
a a way that you guys wanted to entertain that.
entertain that. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> So, so my recommendation is to if we're
>> So, so my recommendation is to if we're going to vote on this one, then look at
going to vote on this one, then look at these seven conditions for this one and
these seven conditions for this one and we'll treat the SUP separately.
we'll treat the SUP separately. >> My my question on the conditions is I
>> My my question on the conditions is I still don't understand condition number
still don't understand condition number three. the proposed subdivision must be
three. the proposed subdivision must be completed in a single phase. I don't
completed in a single phase. I don't understand what that means.
understand what that means. >> The intent of that is in our code it
>> The intent of that is in our code it says that it's to clarify that when you
says that it's to clarify that when you do the project and when they do the
do the project and when they do the platting prior to plat they're going to
platting prior to plat they're going to do all of the off-site improvements and
do all of the off-site improvements and associated internal improvements that
associated internal improvements that are needed to satisfy the elements of
are needed to satisfy the elements of the plat that they won't be able to
the plat that they won't be able to break this up into two phases. So,
break this up into two phases. So, hypothetically, let's just say there's
hypothetically, let's just say there's the special use permit. Whatever the
the special use permit. Whatever the outcome, they did that portion of the
outcome, they did that portion of the subdivision. They come to the city and
subdivision. They come to the city and they go, "We only want to do the east
they go, "We only want to do the east portion now and we want to break it up
portion now and we want to break it up and do the second portion later." This
and do the second portion later." This makes it really clear, no, you're going
makes it really clear, no, you're going to do the whole thing in one
to do the whole thing in one construction phase.
construction phase. >> Okay. So, would it be addressed with
>> Okay. So, would it be addressed with condition number three or condition
condition number three or condition number two that they need to have all
number two that they need to have all those off-site improvements done,
those off-site improvements done, including the landscaping, including the
including the landscaping, including the roadway
roadway through the property, the private
through the property, the private roadway through the property? Is that
roadway through the property? Is that part of the master development agreement
part of the master development agreement or is that part of this single phase?
or is that part of this single phase? Will the master development agreement
or can we can we make it a condition on there that the subdivision requires
there that the subdivision requires those internal roads to be done?
My concern is that we end up with just the parcel where this convenience store
the parcel where this convenience store is proposed with one access point only
is proposed with one access point only off a pole line and the road going out
off a pole line and the road going out to Greens Ferry which is shown on the
to Greens Ferry which is shown on the drawings is never built.
My interpretation is that's what number three is saying. The whole subdivision
three is saying. The whole subdivision must be completed in a single phase. Not
must be completed in a single phase. Not necessarily the individual lots and the
necessarily the individual lots and the buildings but the subdivision the front
buildings but the subdivision the front of.
of. >> That's what I want to clarify. Yeah,
>> That's what I want to clarify. Yeah, that's my interpretation. That's the way
that's my interpretation. That's the way I've always interpreted it.
I've always interpreted it. >> So, if you were to amend that condition,
>> So, if you were to amend that condition, you would say something the effect of
you would say something the effect of the subdivision must be completed in a
the subdivision must be completed in a single phase inclusive of internal
single phase inclusive of internal circulation.
circulation. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. and and condition number seven,
>> Yeah. and and condition number seven, I'm not following why trees wouldn't be
I'm not following why trees wouldn't be done now and why we would wait until
done now and why we would wait until buildings are added or built.
buildings are added or built. >> I think it's probably a leftover from
>> I think it's probably a leftover from maybe a residential subdivision
maybe a residential subdivision requirement. I think you're right. Um
requirement. I think you're right. Um it's it's appropriate to have the the
it's it's appropriate to have the the frontage. So, usually like in in
frontage. So, usually like in in residential subdivision,
residential subdivision, the house construction beats up the home
the house construction beats up the home front, the street frontage, and you
front, the street frontage, and you can't put
can't put >> I could see that happening like along
>> I could see that happening like along the the backside, the buffer, that
the the backside, the buffer, that probably won't be built until there's
probably won't be built until there's something built on those sites.
something built on those sites. >> But along the streets, I think that
>> But along the streets, I think that should all be complete.
should all be complete. >> Yeah, this actually says construction of
>> Yeah, this actually says construction of homes, which is not
homes, which is not >> applicable. So, I think we
>> applicable. So, I think we >> could amend it. Yeah, condition seven
>> could amend it. Yeah, condition seven should probably say something to the
should probably say something to the effect of final landscape trans plans
effect of final landscape trans plans for street trees. Um well, street trees
for street trees. Um well, street trees shall be planted um as part of the
shall be planted um as part of the development of the subdivision
development of the subdivision and just leave it at that.
and just leave it at that. >> Yeah, it's part of it's part of the
>> Yeah, it's part of it's part of the single phase,
single phase, >> right? And they can they'll I'm sure
>> right? And they can they'll I'm sure they're going to have a property owners
they're going to have a property owners association or a commercial development
association or a commercial development association that'll maintain.
association that'll maintain. So,
So, so that
so that and so yeah, the
and so yeah, the frontage improvements are the
frontage improvements are the responsibility of either
responsibility of either the property owners association or the
the property owners association or the adjoining property owner.
adjoining property owner. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Correct. Right.
>> Correct. Right. >> Anything else?
>> Anything else? >> But but commissioners, it's the timing
>> But but commissioners, it's the timing you're looking at on the trees, right?
you're looking at on the trees, right? When when do those trees need to be in
When when do those trees need to be in >> part of the subdivision construction?
>> part of the subdivision construction? I'm thinking that number seven should
I'm thinking that number seven should read the second sentence should read
read the second sentence should read street trees shall be planted by the
street trees shall be planted by the developer in the spring and fall
developer in the spring and fall preceding building construction
and oftentimes like with commercial they post a bond or shity for like when it
post a bond or shity for like when it gets into you obviously don't want them
gets into you obviously don't want them planting trees you know late November
planting trees you know late November December right because the ground ain't
December right because the ground ain't right so they'll go and they'll post a
right so they'll go and they'll post a bond or shity and then come springtime
bond or shity and then come springtime there's usually some items that they
there's usually some items that they some bullet items that they install and
some bullet items that they install and then they release to shity for that. So
then they release to shity for that. So there's ways in the commercial that we
there's ways in the commercial that we generally do that and add that clarity
generally do that and add that clarity in the construction improvement
in the construction improvement agreement, the approved landscape plans
agreement, the approved landscape plans and how they coordinate with the
and how they coordinate with the engineering division for those off-site
engineering division for those off-site improvements.
improvements. >> Okay.
>> following construction? I I think is is what I'm struggling with
what I'm struggling with >> used to be.
>> used to be. >> So with a reg so with a a subdivision
>> So with a reg so with a a subdivision that like a standard subdivision like
that like a standard subdivision like for instance and I'll bring it up
for instance and I'll bring it up because Fieldstone it's across the
because Fieldstone it's across the street, right?
street, right? >> So the frontage improvements on P line
>> So the frontage improvements on P line and Greens Ferry Street trees were put
and Greens Ferry Street trees were put in as part of the subdivision
in as part of the subdivision improvements,
improvements, >> right?
>> right? >> And I think the same applies here.
>> And I think the same applies here. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> So it's just part of the subdivision
>> So it's just part of the subdivision improvements. individual lot development
improvements. individual lot development can happen at a later time because
can happen at a later time because that's they're not going to they're all
that's they're not going to they're all getting
getting >> yeah they're landscaping plans for their
>> yeah they're landscaping plans for their individual parcels
individual parcels >> but the street improvement is what I'm
>> but the street improvement is what I'm concerned with.
concerned with. >> Yeah, the street trees happens as part
>> Yeah, the street trees happens as part of the subdivision
of the subdivision >> proceeding proceeding construction of
>> proceeding proceeding construction of the sites.
the sites. >> Yeah, I think we could append it to
>> Yeah, I think we could append it to number four.
number four. >> I just have never seen number seven
>> I just have never seen number seven spelled out separately in any other
spelled out separately in any other subdivision we've done when we start
subdivision we've done when we start talking about street trees. So it threw
talking about street trees. So it threw me for a loop. That's
me for a loop. That's >> I conferred with the city engineer. We
>> I conferred with the city engineer. We could probably remove seven and the
could probably remove seven and the frontage improvements are in included in
frontage improvements are in included in the construction improvement agreement.
the construction improvement agreement. >> Perfect.
>> Perfect. Okay, cool.
Okay, cool. >> All right. All that being said,
>> All right. All that being said, >> sorry for the confusion.
>> sorry for the confusion. >> That's fine. like somebody like to make
>> That's fine. like somebody like to make a motion.
So, I'll make a motion here. Looking for my sample.
Looking for my sample. Um, I move to approve
Um, I move to approve the River City Corner subdivision
the River City Corner subdivision and the subdivision file number is
and the subdivision file number is SUBD-25-1
finding that it meets the approval criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code
criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code 17.12.060
17.12.060 060
060 as outlined in our deliberation here and
as outlined in our deliberation here and subject to the conditions
subject to the conditions of one through six as uh
of one through six as uh as contained in the staff report and
as contained in the staff report and direct staff to prepare a reasoned
direct staff to prepare a reasoned decision.
decision. >> Do we need to mention anything about
>> Do we need to mention anything about removing seven and incorporate that into
removing seven and incorporate that into >> I think he's got it with one through
>> I think he's got it with one through six. Would we include on condition three
six. Would we include on condition three the internal access driveways to be
the internal access driveways to be included as the subdivision
included as the subdivision improvements?
improvements? >> Okay. So, uh amending
>> Okay. So, uh amending condition three to say the proposed
condition three to say the proposed subdivision must be completed completed
subdivision must be completed completed in a single phase which includes
in a single phase which includes internal access. How do you say that?
internal access. How do you say that? >> Internal access circulation.
>> Internal access circulation. >> Internal access and circulation.
Okay. Have a motion on the floor. Second and a
Have a motion on the floor. Second and a second. Roll call, please.
second. Roll call, please. >> Stephenson,
>> Stephenson, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Kimble,
>> Kimble, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Wilham,
>> Wilham, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Shriber,
>> Shriber, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Carrie,
>> Carrie, >> yes.
>> All right, moving into the special use permit
moving into the special use permit review.
review. All right.
River City Corners SE use permit 25-1. Um, again addressing the use of the lot
Um, again addressing the use of the lot three, proposed lot three from the
three, proposed lot three from the subdivision for
subdivision for uh convenience store with gas station
uh convenience store with gas station facilities. Um number one, whether
facilities. Um number one, whether implementation of the special use would
implementation of the special use would or would not conform to the purposes of
or would not conform to the purposes of the applicable zoning district uh which
the applicable zoning district uh which is
is >> commercial light or what is it? Light
>> commercial light or what is it? Light commercial
commercial >> limited commercial
>> limited commercial >> limited commercial.
Yeah, I mean if implemented, it does conform to that zoning district
conform to that zoning district >> and and the intent of the LC zone is to
>> and and the intent of the LC zone is to permit neighborhood compatible
permit neighborhood compatible commercial retail and service
commercial retail and service uh modest in scale
So pretty pretty straightforward there, >> right? I mean the the special use permit
>> right? I mean the the special use permit here is for the gas pumps, not the
here is for the gas pumps, not the convenience store, right?
convenience store, right? >> So I mean the convenience store is
>> So I mean the convenience store is allowed outright in that zone.
allowed outright in that zone. >> So the question is just the gas pumps.
>> So the question is just the gas pumps. >> It's really the gas pumps and the and
>> It's really the gas pumps and the and that as a use is
that as a use is what we're talking about here tonight.
what we're talking about here tonight. Not not whether it's a gas or a
Not not whether it's a gas or a convenience store or a coffee stand or
convenience store or a coffee stand or anything else that would be outright
anything else that would be outright allowed with just a building permit.
allowed with just a building permit. They go do it tomorrow.
They go do it tomorrow. >> See, that that threw me off there a
>> See, that that threw me off there a little bit because when when it was
little bit because when when it was going to come to the safety on this one,
going to come to the safety on this one, I thought the convenience store gas
I thought the convenience store gas station was one
station was one >> or I wouldn't have voted for it.
>> or I wouldn't have voted for it. >> And what do you mean? I'll explain when
>> And what do you mean? I'll explain when you come into the
you come into the this health, safety, and welfare on
this health, safety, and welfare on this.
this. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Sure. Uh and let's break it down. So on
>> Sure. Uh and let's break it down. So on number one, we're talking about again
number one, we're talking about again whether this special use, i.e. the
whether this special use, i.e. the extension of the gas station, I'm sorry,
extension of the gas station, I'm sorry, the convenience store used to the gas
the convenience store used to the gas station combo use would or would not
station combo use would or would not conform to the purposes of the uh
conform to the purposes of the uh limited commercial zone. Um, I think
limited commercial zone. Um, I think there's a lot of examples in in our area
there's a lot of examples in in our area where there are
where there are gas stations in fairly close proximity
gas stations in fairly close proximity to residential areas and little nodes.
to residential areas and little nodes. And I think that's
And I think that's really the the whole point of this. when
really the the whole point of this. when we when we zoned it in 2018 when it
we when we zoned it in 2018 when it annex and was zoned in 2018 as limited
annex and was zoned in 2018 as limited commercial
commercial um it was done so knowing that it was at
um it was done so knowing that it was at the intersection of two minor arterials
the intersection of two minor arterials which are supposed to have I mean
which are supposed to have I mean eventually they're going to have I think
eventually they're going to have I think Rob you can correct me if I'm wrong but
Rob you can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what 15,000 cars per 10 to
I think what 15,000 cars per 10 to 15,000 cars per day on each street um at
15,000 cars per day on each street um at capacity
capacity um it is not a it's not the roads are
um it is not a it's not the roads are designed designed for high volume.
designed designed for high volume. That's what they're there for. Um that's
That's what they're there for. Um that's what our transportation master plan
what our transportation master plan says. And so,
says. And so, um so if you're looking at a an
um so if you're looking at a an intersection that has 20,000 cars per
intersection that has 20,000 cars per day going through it, then that's um I
day going through it, then that's um I think that's an appropriate location for
think that's an appropriate location for a gas station.
>> Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Okay,
Okay, >> number two.
>> number two. >> Number two, whether the proposed use
>> Number two, whether the proposed use constitutes an allowable special use as
constitutes an allowable special use as established by this chapter for the
established by this chapter for the zoning district involved and complies
zoning district involved and complies with all other applicable laws,
with all other applicable laws, ordinances, and regulations of the city
ordinances, and regulations of the city in the state.
in the state. So, this one is just going directly back
So, this one is just going directly back to our ordinance and our ordinance says
to our ordinance and our ordinance says that gas stations are a special use
that gas stations are a special use allowable special use in the LC zone
allowable special use in the LC zone through this process through the special
through this process through the special use permit process. So, I don't see any
use permit process. So, I don't see any question with number two.
question with number two. >> That agree?
>> That agree? >> Yeah. The land
>> Yeah. The land in the land use category and zoning
in the land use category and zoning classification. Yep.
classification. Yep. required to they are required to follow
required to they are required to follow all laws and ordinances.
all laws and ordinances. >> Can I ask one ordinance question? Does
>> Can I ask one ordinance question? Does the city of Post Falls have any
the city of Post Falls have any restrictions on beer and wine sales and
restrictions on beer and wine sales and proximity to schools?
>> I don't know off the top of my head. I think that's a liquor board question.
think that's a liquor board question. >> Well, liquor board for liquor, but beer
>> Well, liquor board for liquor, but beer and wine is city. Is it?
and wine is city. Is it? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. I didn't know that.
>> Okay. I didn't know that. >> So, I wasn't sure
>> So, I wasn't sure >> if there were additional restrictions
>> if there were additional restrictions >> on the city side.
>> on the city side. >> Hopefully, they're carding the
>> Hopefully, they're carding the elementary kids.
elementary kids. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> All right. Number three, whether the
>> All right. Number three, whether the proposed use will or will not be
proposed use will or will not be compatible with the health, safety, and
compatible with the health, safety, and welfare of the public or with the land
welfare of the public or with the land uses in the vicinity of the proposal.
uses in the vicinity of the proposal. I see serious safety issues with over
I see serious safety issues with over 2,000 kids
2,000 kids going to a gas station in the morning
going to a gas station in the morning before school, at lunchtime,
before school, at lunchtime, after school. There may be crosswalks,
after school. There may be crosswalks, but kids are kids. They're going to run
but kids are kids. They're going to run across. They're not going to care about
across. They're not going to care about that.
that. with 2,000 kids, all the high school
with 2,000 kids, all the high school students that have cars, all the parents
students that have cars, all the parents that have cars, all the teachers that
that have cars, all the teachers that have cars, that is going to be a major
have cars, that is going to be a major cluster of people trying to get there.
cluster of people trying to get there. And it's not just the teenagers that
And it's not just the teenagers that might have some sense, but those little
might have some sense, but those little kids running across back and forth that
kids running across back and forth that street when the bell rings for school,
street when the bell rings for school, they're not going to care about red
they're not going to care about red lights, green lights. Um,
lights, green lights. Um, so I I was under the impression this was
so I I was under the impression this was together, the convenience store and the
together, the convenience store and the the gas the gas pumps, but it wasn't.
the gas the gas pumps, but it wasn't. But I I see down the road some kids
But I I see down the road some kids getting hit by cars because all that
getting hit by cars because all that traffic cuz that's where they're going
traffic cuz that's where they're going to hang out is right there.
to hang out is right there. So I think this is a terrible idea.
So I think this is a terrible idea. What what do you see the difference if
What what do you see the difference if if it's just a convenience store or if
if it's just a convenience store or if it's a convenience store with a gas
it's a convenience store with a gas station?
station? >> I don't think it should be either.
>> I don't think it should be either. >> How so?
>> How so? >> It's
>> It's >> please.
>> please. >> My concern is that the LC zone already
>> My concern is that the LC zone already says convenience store.
says convenience store. >> It can be a convenience store.
>> It can be a convenience store. >> Yeah. It says health, safety, and
>> Yeah. It says health, safety, and welfare.
welfare. >> Right. So the the LC zone allows for a
>> Right. So the the LC zone allows for a convenience store. It just requires a
convenience store. It just requires a special use permit for gas pumps. I
special use permit for gas pumps. I mean, they
mean, they >> I I have to agree. I I think a gas
>> I I have to agree. I I think a gas station is a bad idea there. Um there
station is a bad idea there. Um there are a lot of kids there. Um I
are a lot of kids there. Um I convenience store. I don't know for it
convenience store. I don't know for it could be okay. The kiddos going to high
could be okay. The kiddos going to high school would love it and a lot of people
school would love it and a lot of people that's in walking distance to their
that's in walking distance to their where they live and stuff. There's a lot
where they live and stuff. There's a lot of houses around there. It's walking
of houses around there. It's walking distance, but I live not too far from
distance, but I live not too far from there myself. And I travel that street a
there myself. And I travel that street a lot in the morning and in the afternoon.
lot in the morning and in the afternoon. And it's a 20 m an hour zone during
And it's a 20 m an hour zone during school or, you know, when kids are
school or, you know, when kids are present. And nobody hardly ever goes 20
present. And nobody hardly ever goes 20 miles an hour. So, I would really,
miles an hour. So, I would really, really be worried about a gas station
really be worried about a gas station being there and the extra traffic that a
being there and the extra traffic that a gas station would be in, you know, bring
gas station would be in, you know, bring in. Um, convenience store, like I said,
in. Um, convenience store, like I said, it's already zoned for that. So, we we
it's already zoned for that. So, we we can't really stop that. But, um I would
can't really stop that. But, um I would have a real problem with a gas station
have a real problem with a gas station going in there.
you know, when I back in 2018, I was probably only couple months on this
probably only couple months on this commission. And thinking back, that's
commission. And thinking back, that's why I asked the question earlier, the
why I asked the question earlier, the only reason we're kind of here today and
only reason we're kind of here today and this is not a residential area is
this is not a residential area is because of that jog. It does. That line
because of that jog. It does. That line runs all the way down pole line, all the
runs all the way down pole line, all the field stone. It actually goes through
field stone. It actually goes through the neighborhood that's right next door,
the neighborhood that's right next door, but I believe it's through the
but I believe it's through the underneath the street, which then gives
underneath the street, which then gives it that automatic easement where this
it that automatic easement where this one would be kind of kind of funky. Um,
one would be kind of kind of funky. Um, you know, commercial, you know, I'm kind
you know, commercial, you know, I'm kind of with the with Biggie Joe, like maybe
of with the with Biggie Joe, like maybe it'll be good. I think the gas station's
it'll be good. I think the gas station's going to create too much. Um, I also
going to create too much. Um, I also live in that area and I got a high
live in that area and I got a high schooler there and so I know how much
schooler there and so I know how much traffic is there during the school time
traffic is there during the school time in the morning and the afternoon.
in the morning and the afternoon. I think it just opens up too many uh too
I think it just opens up too many uh too many questions about safety and welfare
many questions about safety and welfare in that area. And then I think down the
in that area. And then I think down the street across from the h from the
street across from the h from the hospital or high school, there's also
hospital or high school, there's also another development going in. So that
another development going in. So that will increase traffic just a little bit
will increase traffic just a little bit too down there. So that's um that's my
too down there. So that's um that's my two cents.
I think when we have when we we look at this I mean the the real thing we're
this I mean the the real thing we're looking at well one thing that
looking at well one thing that maybe silence is deafening but the
maybe silence is deafening but the school district didn't mention any any
school district didn't mention any any traffic or safety concerns um having
traffic or safety concerns um having >> I was surprised by
>> I was surprised by >> um three schools within a half mile of
>> um three schools within a half mile of this location
this location um and so
um and so And I certainly do appreciate the safety
And I certainly do appreciate the safety concerns of everyone with regards to
concerns of everyone with regards to kids walking to school. Um, I designed
kids walking to school. Um, I designed Fieldstone subdivision. I designed uh
Fieldstone subdivision. I designed uh the Vineyard subdivision.
the Vineyard subdivision. Um, and those are, you know, having the
Um, and those are, you know, having the pedestrian connectivity is important.
pedestrian connectivity is important. um that goes with the subdivision with
um that goes with the subdivision with the gas station thing. Um and traffic
the gas station thing. Um and traffic associated with gas station.
associated with gas station. Um you know, they can outright put a
Um you know, they can outright put a Dutch Brothers in there and create just
Dutch Brothers in there and create just as much if not three times the traffic a
as much if not three times the traffic a gas station. It's going to generate
gas station. It's going to generate um on a and just do it completely
um on a and just do it completely outright without having to worry about
outright without having to worry about it. And I can just imagine the number of
it. And I can just imagine the number of high school kids who are going to get
high school kids who are going to get would get their their sugar caffeine fix
would get their their sugar caffeine fix on the way to school um by ripping into
on the way to school um by ripping into a a Dutch Brothers in that location. Um,
a a Dutch Brothers in that location. Um, I do see I do think that
I do see I do think that um it's going to develop as commercial
um it's going to develop as commercial and I think having a gas station at that
and I think having a gas station at that location
location uh where you know not not talking about
uh where you know not not talking about today but you know we're talking about
today but you know we're talking about in the future as this develops out and
in the future as this develops out and our community grows
our community grows that this is an intersection of two
that this is an intersection of two major or two major roads. is they're
major or two major roads. is they're arterials and
arterials and um that's typically where you find
um that's typically where you find convenience stores with gas stations is
convenience stores with gas stations is at those locations and I think um and I
at those locations and I think um and I think that's for that reason it's
think that's for that reason it's appropriate and I think the safety
appropriate and I think the safety mitigation comes to you know making sure
mitigation comes to you know making sure that during those times of days when
that during those times of days when there are a lot of pedestrians so school
there are a lot of pedestrians so school in school out um I do know that there
in school out um I do know that there are pedestrian crossing guards
are pedestrian crossing guards um in their shephering kids uh across
um in their shephering kids uh across the street. And I think that's an
the street. And I think that's an important function that the school
important function that the school district does and it's very appreciated
district does and it's very appreciated by us in the community. Um and I think
by us in the community. Um and I think that the pedestrian
that the pedestrian facilities that will be here will
facilities that will be here will mitigate the issues uh with regards to
mitigate the issues uh with regards to pedestrian safety and traffic going in
pedestrian safety and traffic going in and out of a commercial subdivision.
Does the school district ever ever go beyond neutral when they answer these?
beyond neutral when they answer these? >> I've seen them go both directions in my
>> I've seen them go both directions in my career.
career. >> You've been here a long time.
>> You've been here a long time. >> I have.
>> Chris, you have anything to add >> with the SUP?
>> with the SUP? I don't see anything in there that
I don't see anything in there that limits
the size of the gas station portion. I understand
of the gas station portion. I understand the convenience store portion, you know,
the convenience store portion, you know, code has specifics to that.
code has specifics to that. is
is should we be looking at or is it
should we be looking at or is it something we should consider looking at
something we should consider looking at is limiting the size of the gas station
is limiting the size of the gas station portion you know if we were to proceed
portion you know if we were to proceed because as an SUP I think we can do that
because as an SUP I think we can do that >> right
>> right um I think
um I think >> I don't know we should I'm just
>> I don't know we should I'm just >> no asking a question
>> no asking a question >> that's a that's a great question because
>> that's a that's a great question because the obviously right it's not a is it a
the obviously right it's not a is it a Flying J Maverick or is it a as they
Flying J Maverick or is it a as they show in their site land. Um
show in their site land. Um >> 7-Eleven
>> 7-Eleven >> 7-Eleven. So four pumps, right? So or
>> 7-Eleven. So four pumps, right? So or four pumps, so eight spots to fuel.
four pumps, so eight spots to fuel. >> So eight fuel locations.
>> So eight fuel locations. >> And we do have the ability to condition
>> And we do have the ability to condition this if you wanted to limit the number
this if you wanted to limit the number of pumps, limited the hours of operation
of pumps, limited the hours of operation or anything else if that was specific to
or anything else if that was specific to the gas station concerns. Um we do have
the gas station concerns. Um we do have that flexibility being a special use
that flexibility being a special use permit. I think we should at least
permit. I think we should at least consider it because when I look at this
consider it because when I look at this site plan, I see three fuel stations. So
site plan, I see three fuel stations. So that's 12 pumps
that's 12 pumps >> because that is that 12 because the one
>> because that is that 12 because the one we first saw was six but or was four,
we first saw was six but or was four, excuse me, the one that was in the
excuse me, the one that was in the >> I mean and we don't have I don't really
>> I mean and we don't have I don't really have scale here. So each one of those
have scale here. So each one of those would have normally, you know, when I
would have normally, you know, when I look at 71s or whatever, you've got two
look at 71s or whatever, you've got two on each side.
on each side. >> And if this is three of those,
>> And if this is three of those, >> okay, because I
>> okay, because I >> this is a different site plan than the
>> this is a different site plan than the one that they had in their presentation.
one that they had in their presentation. So the presentation is a little more
So the presentation is a little more refined. I believe had four or so it had
refined. I believe had four or so it had one, two, three, four islands,
one, two, three, four islands, >> two on each, I thought. Didn't you say?
>> two on each, I thought. Didn't you say? >> Yeah. Well, it had four
>> Yeah. Well, it had four >> tanks,
>> tanks, >> gas gas pumps with fueling on eight, so
>> gas gas pumps with fueling on eight, so spots for eight cars to fuel at once as
spots for eight cars to fuel at once as I believe that was on there.
Um, would you mind pulling up their presentation really quick, please?
>> So, you get eight cars in there at once. Right.
So my my thought would be if we were to proceed, there should be some wording in
proceed, there should be some wording in there that limits that
there that limits that to to what's shown there or shown here,
to to what's shown there or shown here, whatever it is,
whatever it is, >> right? I think that I think that's
>> right? I think that I think that's reasonable.
>> Any thoughts on what that wording should be?
be? >> That's a good question.
>> That's a good question. Well, even if you did allow that, then
Well, even if you did allow that, then you're going to have a long line of cars
you're going to have a long line of cars on both sides to that pump because
on both sides to that pump because that's the closest gas station to that
that's the closest gas station to that school.
school. So, however you do that, you're going to
So, however you do that, you're going to have a big line of cars right there and
have a big line of cars right there and little kids running in and out of that
little kids running in and out of that store.
store. >> And I'm I'm not disagreeing with you.
>> And I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not even I'm just asking some
I'm not even I'm just asking some questions here.
I mean the reality is is if there is a long line it just speaks to the need for
long line it just speaks to the need for it in that location.
it in that location. >> That's true too.
>> That's true too. >> We need kids if the demand's there too.
>> We need kids if the demand's there too. So
>> well why don't we opine over that language and
opine over that language and >> okay
>> okay >> move on to the next one.
>> move on to the next one. >> All right. Uh number let's go to number
>> All right. Uh number let's go to number four since we've had quite a bit of
four since we've had quite a bit of discussion on number three and whether
discussion on number three and whether the proposed use will or will not comply
the proposed use will or will not comply with the goals and policies found within
with the goals and policies found within the comprehensive plan.
I see this one is both ways. Um you only goal six the uh goal six let's see
goal six the uh goal six let's see goal three walkability
goal three walkability uh
uh commercial services proximity to
commercial services proximity to residential
residential but then the um
there could be stuff I'm sure there's something about
something about there's an infill here that would be
there's an infill here that would be good there. But then
talk about safety, but then you know the connectivity. So there there's I think
connectivity. So there there's I think there's both pros and cons to this one.
>> Did anybody else have any thoughts on that one? We had some discussion about
that one? We had some discussion about underutilized property. um some
underutilized property. um some discussion both by the applicant and the
discussion both by the applicant and the staff as to uh the improvements uh that
staff as to uh the improvements uh that would be met uh by allowing this um
would be met uh by allowing this um although I think we've addressed some of
although I think we've addressed some of that in the subdivision approval. So um
that in the subdivision approval. So um well I mean one of the important parts
well I mean one of the important parts about and this is why they're coming
about and this is why they're coming together right um is that commercial
together right um is that commercial subdivisions generally don't happen
subdivisions generally don't happen unless they have an anchor tenant to
unless they have an anchor tenant to start them out right so no one spends
start them out right so no one spends the uh million plus dollars that they're
the uh million plus dollars that they're going to have to do on the frontage
going to have to do on the frontage improvements um to move that traffic
improvements um to move that traffic signal the mast arm
signal the mast arm um and foundation base and to put in the
um and foundation base and to put in the road widening and to put in the pathways
road widening and to put in the pathways and the swailes and the street trees uh
and the swailes and the street trees uh without there being an anchor tenant to
without there being an anchor tenant to um get that going to get them started.
um get that going to get them started. Um that just doesn't happen. And so the
Um that just doesn't happen. And so the reality is is that
reality is is that um these are the reason they're together
um these are the reason they're together is that they are part and parcel. And so
is that they are part and parcel. And so it goes to
it goes to goal six with regards to transportation.
goal six with regards to transportation. Um providing transportation
Um providing transportation infrastructure.
infrastructure. Um, that's a big one. And I think it al,
Um, that's a big one. And I think it al, you know, and that ties again back to
you know, and that ties again back to safety because even though the
safety because even though the conditional use permit is not
conditional use permit is not necessarily
necessarily directly involved with that, it's it's
directly involved with that, it's it's the reason they're doing the
the reason they're doing the subdivision.
subdivision. And
And so
so I think it hits policy 67 with regards
I think it hits policy 67 with regards to pedestrian connectivity.
to pedestrian connectivity. Um
and uh as well as you know infill infill development I mean Lonnie Bitman owned
development I mean Lonnie Bitman owned that property for I don't know 40 50
that property for I don't know 40 50 years and um and it's all the
years and um and it's all the development happened around him much to
development happened around him much to his chagrin
his chagrin and when he finally sold it um and and
and when he finally sold it um and and he he was the one who brought it in as
he he was the one who brought it in as limited
limited Um, so
Um, so you know, this is this is infill
you know, this is this is infill development and this has been planned
development and this has been planned since 2018
since 2018 and in some way, shape or form and this
and in some way, shape or form and this is the shape or form that we're seeing
is the shape or form that we're seeing tonight. So I think it meets
tonight. So I think it meets requirements or it meets our goals and
requirements or it meets our goals and policies with regards to infill
policies with regards to infill development as well, which is I think
development as well, which is I think really important. Um,
really important. Um, that's not the
that's not the It'd be nice to get that intersection
It'd be nice to get that intersection fully developed um and fully built out
fully developed um and fully built out so that it it functioned properly both
so that it it functioned properly both from a traffic standpoint as well as um
from a traffic standpoint as well as um a land use standpoint.
>> Okay, thank you. Or there's a motion. Anybody want to
Or there's a motion. Anybody want to >> I'll make a motion.
>> I'll make a motion. >> Well, any thoughts on eliminating
>> Well, any thoughts on eliminating limiting the uh number of pumps?
limiting the uh number of pumps? >> Chris, you brought that up. Did you have
>> Chris, you brought that up. Did you have any
any >> thoughts? I I was asking more as a
>> thoughts? I I was asking more as a question. I didn't have a specific
question. I didn't have a specific >> I mean, I do think it's appropriate to
>> I mean, I do think it's appropriate to limit the pumps to what they show in
limit the pumps to what they show in their site plan um in their in the
their site plan um in their in the presentation because, you know, that's
presentation because, you know, that's the that's the picture that we were
the that's the picture that we were sold, right? if you will. I mean, that's
sold, right? if you will. I mean, that's what they're that's where they're
what they're that's where they're >> staff report. You mean
>> staff report. You mean >> not the one staff report in the one in
>> not the one staff report in the one in the applicant's presentation
the applicant's presentation >> different
>> different >> that has
>> that has um the four spots. It it's a more
um the four spots. It it's a more refined site plan that allows for
refined site plan that allows for fueling of eight vehicles.
fueling of eight vehicles. Um
I think that you know just the fact that I mean I know when I drive by a gas
I mean I know when I drive by a gas station and it's full I go to the next
station and it's full I go to the next one. Yeah, that's exactly what I do,
one. Yeah, that's exactly what I do, too.
too. >> Um, so I mean other people do other
>> Um, so I mean other people do other things. I get that. So, but um limiting
things. I get that. So, but um limiting the number of gas pumps will limit the
the number of gas pumps will limit the volume of traffic going in and out.
volume of traffic going in and out. Really, the price will, but
>> So, Commissioner, um, do we know what that number was? It's unclear to me if
that number was? It's unclear to me if we were to impose a condition or make a
we were to impose a condition or make a motion with a condition of the limited
motion with a condition of the limited number of gas pumps. I think it's four
number of gas pumps. I think it's four pumps
pumps >> to four.
>> to four. >> We would limit it to
>> We would limit it to four pumps allowing for eight vehicles.
four pumps allowing for eight vehicles. >> That would be double-sided.
>> That would be double-sided. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Or double-sided pumps.
>> Or double-sided pumps. >> I'm just trying to make it clear for
>> I'm just trying to make it clear for what we are suggesting if that what were
what we are suggesting if that what were to be a condition on any motion.
to be a condition on any motion. >> The specificity helps. So, thank you.
>> The specificity helps. So, thank you. >> Yes.
>> Yes. Are there any specific um
Are there any specific um recommended staff recommended conditions
recommended staff recommended conditions on for the special use permit?
on for the special use permit? >> Not on this. I mean, we did hear some
>> Not on this. I mean, we did hear some issues with some lighting somebody did
issues with some lighting somebody did bring up. I mean, so there's you guys
bring up. I mean, so there's you guys could theoretically entertain like down
could theoretically entertain like down lighting, making sure that
lighting, making sure that >> isn't that part of our code?
>> isn't that part of our code? >> Um
>> Um >> downward directed.
>> downward directed. >> I think yeah, a new commercial
>> I think yeah, a new commercial >> that is in there.
>> that is in there. >> We don't limit pedestal lighting. I
>> We don't limit pedestal lighting. I don't think that's another thing that I
don't think that's another thing that I don't believe our code does do that
don't believe our code does do that though for standing pedestal lighting
though for standing pedestal lighting >> that low level or
>> that low level or >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> pedestrian stuff keeps people from
>> pedestrian stuff keeps people from tripping.
>> Any other thoughts or are we ready for a motion?
motion? >> No.
>> No. >> Somebody like to make a motion?
>> Somebody like to make a motion? >> I'll make one.
>> I'll make one. I move to deny River City Corners SUP
I move to deny River City Corners SUP file number 25-1
file number 25-1 finding that it does not meet the
finding that it does not meet the approval criteria in Post Falls
approval criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code 18.20.070
as outlined in our deliberation and direct staff to prepare a written reason
direct staff to prepare a written reason decision.
Oh, I second it. Second. >> Okay. And we have a second. Roll call,
>> Okay. And we have a second. Roll call, please.
please. >> Stephenson.
>> Stephenson. >> So, if we're voting to deny,
>> So, if we're voting to deny, yes would mean deny.
yes would mean deny. >> Correct.
>> Correct. >> All right. In that case, yes.
>> All right. In that case, yes. >> Kimble,
>> Kimble, >> no.
>> no. >> Wilhham,
>> Wilhham, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Shriber,
>> Shriber, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Carrie,
>> Carrie, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Okay.
>> Okay. All righty.
All righty. I think we're going to take a fivem
I think we're going to take a fivem minute recess.
All right, let's call the meeting back to order. Next hearing tonight is G2
to order. Next hearing tonight is G2 Development.
Development. We got a couple actions on that tonight.
We got a couple actions on that tonight. >> Yes. Good evening, commissioners. is
>> Yes. Good evening, commissioners. is John Manley, planning manager here with
John Manley, planning manager here with the city of Post Falls, presenting the
the city of Post Falls, presenting the G2 annexation, zone change and
G2 annexation, zone change and subdivision and their associated files
subdivision and their associated files is as you see there. Um
is as you see there. Um the owner of this is G2 Real Property
the owner of this is G2 Real Property Holdings LLC and the applicant is Scott
Holdings LLC and the applicant is Scott MacArthur. So there's three requests and
MacArthur. So there's three requests and you know I'll do my best to tell the
you know I'll do my best to tell the story from staff's perspective, but the
story from staff's perspective, but the first one is to annex approximately
first one is to annex approximately 10.05 05 acres. And your part of this
10.05 05 acres. And your part of this would be to review their requested
would be to review their requested residential mixed RM zoning and forward
residential mixed RM zoning and forward that on to city council. Then review
that on to city council. Then review their requested residential mixed as
their requested residential mixed as part of a zoning zone change request on
part of a zoning zone change request on approximately 8.3 acres and forward that
approximately 8.3 acres and forward that to council. So they'll both those both
to council. So they'll both those both requests you're not making the decision
requests you're not making the decision on it, but you're forwarding on a zoning
on it, but you're forwarding on a zoning recommendation to council. And the 8.3,
recommendation to council. And the 8.3, just for clarification, is already in
just for clarification, is already in the city.
the city. >> Yes, that's in the city.
>> Yes, that's in the city. >> And when you look at the subdivision,
>> And when you look at the subdivision, you could scratch your head and go, why
you could scratch your head and go, why is the subdivision 8.02, but yet the two
is the subdivision 8.02, but yet the two on the annexation don't sum to the 8.02?
on the annexation don't sum to the 8.02? And that's because of the rightway that
And that's because of the rightway that would be dedicated as part of the
would be dedicated as part of the annexation. So, okay.
annexation. So, okay. >> But the subdivision request is for the
>> But the subdivision request is for the 8.02 2 after rightaway and to do that
8.02 2 after rightaway and to do that with into 105 residential lots in that
with into 105 residential lots in that residential mix zone
residential mix zone >> 18.02
>> 18.02 >> 18
>> 18 >> 18.02
>> 18.02 Thanks.
Thanks. >> Sorry,
>> all that math and numbers. That's why we got to stick it to two items.
got to stick it to two items. >> I don't like confusing.
>> I don't like confusing. >> Math is bad.
>> Math is bad. >> So, the location of this is right here
>> So, the location of this is right here on the southeast corner of Singa and
on the southeast corner of Singa and East Horse Haven.
East Horse Haven. To the far east where you see air
To the far east where you see air annexation area B, that's that 10.05
annexation area B, that's that 10.05 acres. And then here you see the zone
acres. And then here you see the zone change request. That's that area A. And
change request. That's that area A. And then together they sum that 18 whatever
then together they sum that 18 whatever and change subdivision request
and change subdivision request >> post falls math.
>> post falls math. >> Yep.
>> Here's the surrounding zoning. So because the area A is in the city.
because the area A is in the city. That's why you see some yellow there. It
That's why you see some yellow there. It currently is the R1 zoning. Everything
currently is the R1 zoning. Everything to the west and to the south that's in
to the west and to the south that's in the city for the most part is R1. and a
the city for the most part is R1. and a little notch right to the north of Horse
little notch right to the north of Horse Haven.
Haven. Where you see near no color, that's an
Where you see near no color, that's an annexation request. So that's why
annexation request. So that's why there's no color. To the north of East
there's no color. To the north of East Horse Haven, you see that purple? That's
Horse Haven, you see that purple? That's the smart code zone. So that was I don't
the smart code zone. So that was I don't know the date in which that was that
know the date in which that was that came to the city, but that smart code
came to the city, but that smart code zone's been in the city for a bit. And
zone's been in the city for a bit. And the dark purple is the SC4 with the
the dark purple is the SC4 with the light purple the SC3. You see those lots
light purple the SC3. You see those lots are a little smaller in the SC4 that
are a little smaller in the SC4 that there is more of that rear that that
there is more of that rear that that allows for more density very akin to
allows for more density very akin to that what you see here that medium
that what you see here that medium density right there there's some medium
density right there there's some medium density R2 zoning and then a transition
density R2 zoning and then a transition to the north to that lighter purple
to the north to that lighter purple which is more like a single family
which is more like a single family zoning designation.
zoning designation. Everything to the east and south are
Everything to the east and south are larger properties or smaller properties
larger properties or smaller properties in the Coupney County for for their
in the Coupney County for for their jurisdiction.
Looking at the some additional information, the water provider would be
information, the water provider would be the Ross Point Water District. The
the Ross Point Water District. The currently on this there'd be more is
currently on this there'd be more is large lot single family. It's over the
large lot single family. It's over the Roth Prairie aquifer. For wastewater,
Roth Prairie aquifer. For wastewater, the city of Post Falls would be the
the city of Post Falls would be the service provider and there is capacity
service provider and there is capacity to serve it. For any existing structures
to serve it. For any existing structures there, it would be required for the
there, it would be required for the exist existing septic systems to be
exist existing septic systems to be abandoned
except for potentially you you'll see I'll go back. There is on this side a
I'll go back. There is on this side a pre-existing
pre-existing house that's on that. I've talked to the
house that's on that. I've talked to the applicant. The intent is for that house
applicant. The intent is for that house upon annexation and that farm to
upon annexation and that farm to continue that use until such time later
continue that use until such time later and then that's when that would
and then that's when that would transition in the second phase of that
transition in the second phase of that subdivision. We go into that later on.
subdivision. We go into that later on. For traffic, Horse Haven Avenue is along
For traffic, Horse Haven Avenue is along a northern boundary and it's a minor
a northern boundary and it's a minor collector and Seringa Street on the
collector and Seringa Street on the western boundary is a minor collector.
western boundary is a minor collector. Additional rights away would be needed
Additional rights away would be needed on Horse Haven Avenue as it would be
on Horse Haven Avenue as it would be part of the annexation. Here
part of the annexation. Here is your future land use designation. You
is your future land use designation. You see zone change area MB. Again, this is
see zone change area MB. Again, this is all in the low density and it allows up
all in the low density and it allows up to eight dwelling units per acre and the
to eight dwelling units per acre and the residential mix is an implementing zone
residential mix is an implementing zone in that future land use designation.
in that future land use designation. Here's the project site in proximity to
Here's the project site in proximity to the central island. That's the focus
the central island. That's the focus area that's in the comprehensive plan.
area that's in the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan is divvied up
The comprehensive plan is divvied up into little portions and map and within
into little portions and map and within this post falls and because this area is
this post falls and because this area is a large county island in pocket it
a large county island in pocket it became it was denoted as a central
became it was denoted as a central island.
Looking at some of the principles of the central island. It looks at successful
central island. It looks at successful development of this area. What
development of this area. What incorporation will in city limits will
incorporation will in city limits will likely rely on the incentives rewarding
likely rely on the incentives rewarding developers with higher density or
developers with higher density or modified design standards in exchange
modified design standards in exchange for forward thinking integration of the
for forward thinking integration of the land into the surrounding context. So I
land into the surrounding context. So I believe this falls in line to their
believe this falls in line to their request for the RM.
request for the RM. The comprehensive goals for goal seven,
The comprehensive goals for goal seven, we don't specify everything tonight, but
we don't specify everything tonight, but we will highlight a couple. Goal seven
we will highlight a couple. Goal seven is plan for and establish types and
is plan for and establish types and quantities of land uses inf falls
quantities of land uses inf falls supporting community needs and a
supporting community needs and a long-term sustainability.
long-term sustainability. Some policies that may be considered
Some policies that may be considered consistent with that would be encourage
consistent with that would be encourage compatible infill development, encourage
compatible infill development, encourage annexation of county islands within a
annexation of county islands within a city. ensure that adequate land is
city. ensure that adequate land is available for future housing needs,
available for future housing needs, helping serve residents of all ages,
helping serve residents of all ages, incomes, and abilities through the
incomes, and abilities through the provisions of different types of
provisions of different types of housings and price levels.
Looking at goal six, maintain and improve Postfall's transportation
improve Postfall's transportation network on pace and concert with the
network on pace and concert with the needs and plans objectives. You see here
needs and plans objectives. You see here policies 24, 26, and policy 33.
policies 24, 26, and policy 33. More or less the three kind of come
More or less the three kind of come together as you know you look at
together as you know you look at annexations they help you again rideway
annexations they help you again rideway get the utility corridors they also
get the utility corridors they also allow you to create continuity with your
allow you to create continuity with your sidewalks trails and bicycle paths so
sidewalks trails and bicycle paths so they work together and meeting that goal
they work together and meeting that goal six
and I kind of highlighted them and left them on this image here to kind of look
them on this image here to kind of look at what would occur upon development on
at what would occur upon development on this they would improve seringa from the
this they would improve seringa from the southwest corner here northerly to the
southwest corner here northerly to the intersection of Seringa and Horse Haven.
intersection of Seringa and Horse Haven. So looking over to the image on this
So looking over to the image on this side of the screen, you can see that on
side of the screen, you can see that on the west side you have improvements.
the west side you have improvements. Then on the east side, that's that
Then on the east side, that's that section that does not have improvements.
section that does not have improvements. So that would that would be improved
So that would that would be improved with development.
with development. Looking at the 1300 feet of Horse Haven,
Looking at the 1300 feet of Horse Haven, that is this is looking easterly down on
that is this is looking easterly down on Horse Haven. So on the right you would
Horse Haven. So on the right you would upon development you would get frontage
upon development you would get frontage improvements along that as well. So that
improvements along that as well. So that would improve the
would improve the both the transportation corridors as
both the transportation corridors as well as creating that continuity and
well as creating that continuity and sidewalks and trails for this area.
sidewalks and trails for this area. Improving accessibility in that uh
Improving accessibility in that uh central island focus area.
Here is the three review criteria for a zone change. We've kind of gone over the
zone change. We've kind of gone over the first two. The last one I'll hold to the
first two. The last one I'll hold to the end as we're looking we did notice to
end as we're looking we did notice to all jurisdictions. So I'll address that.
all jurisdictions. So I'll address that. Then
Then do want to point out on compatibility
do want to point out on compatibility of the surrounding area. I'll go back to
of the surrounding area. I'll go back to I kind of mentioned this in a staff
I kind of mentioned this in a staff report that when you're looking at the
report that when you're looking at the subdivision later on, they do kind of go
subdivision later on, they do kind of go from larger lots along the south typical
from larger lots along the south typical single family and it transitions to the
single family and it transitions to the north along Horse Haven to more of that
north along Horse Haven to more of that cottage type product is what they're
cottage type product is what they're proposing. And you can see here
proposing. And you can see here that's akin to the medium density that's
that's akin to the medium density that's just on the north side of Horse Haven.
Now looking at the any other questions I have for the annexations of zone.
have for the annexations of zone. >> I do. Yep.
>> I do. Yep. >> Um so I think with residential mix it
>> Um so I think with residential mix it comes with a zoning development
comes with a zoning development agreement. Is that correct?
agreement. Is that correct? >> Yeah, we would incorporate that in the
>> Yeah, we would incorporate that in the annexation agreement.
annexation agreement. >> That's in the annexation agreement. And
>> That's in the annexation agreement. And is it appropriate to add things into
is it appropriate to add things into that at this point or is that a city
that at this point or is that a city council thing we should ask?
council thing we should ask? >> I think you can make recommendations
>> I think you can make recommendations that we would add as suggestions. I'll
that we would add as suggestions. I'll go and confer with Chris. He's nodding
go and confer with Chris. He's nodding yes. So yeah, you can
yes. So yeah, you can you guys could propose
you guys could propose language.
language. >> What's the plan for the existing septic
>> What's the plan for the existing septic at those houses that are there that are
at those houses that are there that are going to stay?
going to stay? >> I'll let the applicant chime in, but I
>> I'll let the applicant chime in, but I believe when they get up, I believe the
believe when they get up, I believe the house would stay on septic until such
house would stay on septic until such time it fails or the time it develops.
time it fails or the time it develops. And then phase one is zone A. So any
And then phase one is zone A. So any sort of if there is a septic out there
sort of if there is a septic out there on zone A, any existing house would get
on zone A, any existing house would get put on sanitary sewer or
put on sanitary sewer or they would have to be capped or
they would have to be capped or disbanded or whatever on the phase one.
disbanded or whatever on the phase one. >> Okay.
So, subdivision review. Here is the proposed subdivision. And here's that
proposed subdivision. And here's that referenced lot layout that I said along
referenced lot layout that I said along the western side. These are the more
the western side. These are the more typical single family type lots or more
typical single family type lots or more similar along this section of their
similar along this section of their proposed subdivision. So, along the
proposed subdivision. So, along the west, southern half, and the east half.
west, southern half, and the east half. >> Yep. Would you say that's R1?
>> Yep. Would you say that's R1? Um,
Um, >> I don't have those lots.
>> I don't have those lots. the size of the lots.
the size of the lots. >> I'll let the applicant uh when he comes
>> I'll let the applicant uh when he comes up
up >> say what the square footage and the lot
>> say what the square footage and the lot width,
width, >> but I think they're more similar to like
>> but I think they're more similar to like a typical R1.
a typical R1. >> Yeah, they're all 9,000 7,000
>> Yeah, they're all 9,000 7,000 >> 8,000,
>> 8,000, >> right?
>> right? >> Yes. 6,500 is the minimum lot size for
>> Yes. 6,500 is the minimum lot size for an R1. So, they're larger than a typical
an R1. So, they're larger than a typical R1.
R1. >> And they're all 60 ft wide, too.
>> And they're all 60 ft wide, too. So, it's halfway surrounded by bigger
So, it's halfway surrounded by bigger lots than what R1 would put.
lots than what R1 would put. >> Yeah. And then you have a city street
>> Yeah. And then you have a city street going through along this section and
going through along this section and then you have a city street going along
then you have a city street going along the north south here. They do propose I
the north south here. They do propose I believe a private road connecting it
believe a private road connecting it connecting to what their plan is for
connecting to what their plan is for cottage lots 62 cottage lots along the
cottage lots 62 cottage lots along the northern tier.
This is their they do have provide some open space. I'll go into the matrix on
open space. I'll go into the matrix on that. But with the RM and with the
that. But with the RM and with the cottage, they do require a certain
cottage, they do require a certain percentage of open space. And I wanted
percentage of open space. And I wanted to denote here the and I'll come back to
to denote here the and I'll come back to it later, the 70,730t
it later, the 70,730t of open space is what track day amounts
of open space is what track day amounts to.
So criteria one definite provisions have been made for water system and there's
been made for water system and there's adequate supply and I have in your staff
adequate supply and I have in your staff report exhibit A5 is that will serve
report exhibit A5 is that will serve letter for Ross Point irrigation to
letter for Ross Point irrigation to provide water.
provide water. Criteria two is is there sanitary sewer
Criteria two is is there sanitary sewer available and in the staff report we did
available and in the staff report we did denote that there's capacity
denote that there's capacity to provide services to this.
to provide services to this. Criteria three, the proposed streets are
Criteria three, the proposed streets are consistent with the transportation
consistent with the transportation element in the comprehensive plan.
element in the comprehensive plan. The subdivision should not have a
The subdivision should not have a negative impact on the transportation
negative impact on the transportation network. And I didn't note that the
network. And I didn't note that the roadways would dedicate the rights away
roadways would dedicate the rights away easements associated.
I do show here and the reason for this red box is so you can kind of see a long
red box is so you can kind of see a long term. Here's these blue the main access
term. Here's these blue the main access points ultimately for this project. And
points ultimately for this project. And it also they're looking at providing
it also they're looking at providing connectivity to the southeast portion.
connectivity to the southeast portion. So when those areas come into the city,
So when those areas come into the city, it would extend the the street network.
it would extend the the street network. So ultimately it would look like a
So ultimately it would look like a master plan community. That's the goal
master plan community. That's the goal at least.
And so that would be stubbing out to the south through these the county parcel
south through these the county parcel allowing those to develop.
Review criteria four is all areas of the proposed subdivision which may involve
proposed subdivision which may involve soil or topographic conditions
soil or topographic conditions presenting hazards.
presenting hazards. The sites over the
The sites over the cited the aquifer and there's no known
cited the aquifer and there's no known hazards.
Here is where that open space comes into play. Here the area of the proposed
play. Here the area of the proposed subdivision is zoned for the proposed
subdivision is zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms with the
use and the use conforms with the requirements found in the code. So when
requirements found in the code. So when planning looks at this and is
planning looks at this and is coordinating with is it a complete
coordinating with is it a complete application we start looking as well can
application we start looking as well can you meet the requirements for the
you meet the requirements for the residential mix zoning or the cottage
residential mix zoning or the cottage housing and you can see here they meet
housing and you can see here they meet both and it's not additive. So it's, you
both and it's not additive. So it's, you know, theoretically if you meet the 7%
know, theoretically if you meet the 7% open space, the cottage product is
open space, the cottage product is permitted outright in that and so you
permitted outright in that and so you don't necessarily have to in addition
don't necessarily have to in addition make that what they call here the
make that what they call here the 20,000. So I think this the intent of
20,000. So I think this the intent of this is for the applicant to show that
this is for the applicant to show that they're they're more than meeting both
they're they're more than meeting both those scenarios.
And then looking at some intent the residential mix I underlined here for
residential mix I underlined here for the residential mix zone. It's intended
the residential mix zone. It's intended to accommodate a mix of residential
to accommodate a mix of residential community the variety of housing types
community the variety of housing types of varying densities within the
of varying densities within the development and I've kind of already
development and I've kind of already gone over with the two types of lot
gone over with the two types of lot sizes and product that they intend to
sizes and product that they intend to do. And if you look in the context of
do. And if you look in the context of what was done with that smart code and I
what was done with that smart code and I believe I added that to your staff
believe I added that to your staff report as an exhibit collectively there
report as an exhibit collectively there is some diverse product in that area.
They do propose single family homes and so the intent would be condition the
so the intent would be condition the reference annexation agreement and
reference annexation agreement and development agreement to be um
development agreement to be um consistent with their application and
consistent with their application and provide um single family homes within
provide um single family homes within this area.
the cottage home residential performance standards here the purpose and then it's
standards here the purpose and then it's stated here in code and I referenced
stated here in code and I referenced that how cottage homes are permitted out
that how cottage homes are permitted out right here in the RM zoning district
review criteria six looks at the developer um paying for its fair share
developer um paying for its fair share and I cite here how impact fees and cath
and I cite here how impact fees and cath fees are paid at the time of building
fees are paid at the time of building permit to deal with the impacts to
permit to deal with the impacts to parks, public safety, streets, fire, EMS
parks, public safety, streets, fire, EMS and water reclamation facilities.
There's the agencies that were notified. Here's the comments.
Here's the comments. They're all remained uh neutral or no
They're all remained uh neutral or no utilities. They're Kuni County. They
utilities. They're Kuni County. They review at time of permitting and that's
review at time of permitting and that's common for them. They would they
common for them. They would they generally review the construction plans
generally review the construction plans and coordinate that prior to issues of
and coordinate that prior to issues of permits and they review the plat.
There's the six review criteria. There's the zone change review criteria
and once again there's a proposed subdivision plan. Any questions for me?
subdivision plan. Any questions for me? >> Lot five on
>> Lot five on the south part of that. That one's
the south part of that. That one's bigger. Maybe I missed this, but
bigger. Maybe I missed this, but >> yes,
>> yes, >> what's there?
>> what's there? >> That is a pre-existing home. And that is
>> That is a pre-existing home. And that is when I referenced that in phase one that
when I referenced that in phase one that that house would then have to be
that house would then have to be connected to sanitary sewer as part of
connected to sanitary sewer as part of phase one. I thought that was in the
phase one. I thought that was in the other lot. Okay.
other lot. Okay. >> Yeah. The other ones I referenced over
>> Yeah. The other ones I referenced over here, that's phase two. It's supposed to
here, that's phase two. It's supposed to be a two-phase project. So, sometime in
be a two-phase project. So, sometime in the future when um this side develops,
the future when um this side develops, that's when the desire would to be to
that's when the desire would to be to cook that up to sanitary sewer at that
cook that up to sanitary sewer at that time.
time. >> Gotcha. And then, while it doesn't look
>> Gotcha. And then, while it doesn't look like it on this subdivision,
like it on this subdivision, small neighborhood commercial is allowed
small neighborhood commercial is allowed in RM zoning. Is that correct?
in RM zoning. Is that correct? >> It is. And that's why they on that one
>> It is. And that's why they on that one slide where I would propose the
slide where I would propose the condition would be so that way they
condition would be so that way they don't come in later and change
don't come in later and change conditions of this is you know they
conditions of this is you know they present to you tonight single family
present to you tonight single family homes single family lots and then you
homes single family lots and then you condition accordingly.
condition accordingly. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Are all the cottage home lots at least
>> Are all the cottage home lots at least as they're laid out there are all of
as they're laid out there are all of them only access from given?
them only access from given? >> Yes. So all these would be accessed off
>> Yes. So all these would be accessed off the internal circulation. You'd have
the internal circulation. You'd have this Genden Avenue. Then you take this
this Genden Avenue. Then you take this private drive here, this lane.
private drive here, this lane. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And then you would access either the
>> And then you would access either the rear that would be fronting a green
rear that would be fronting a green space or the ones that are fronting the
space or the ones that are fronting the rightway along here. And so that's how
rightway along here. And so that's how kind of they would go through here.
kind of they would go through here. >> John, if I'm looking at this right, so
>> John, if I'm looking at this right, so Given Lane is basically a glorified
Given Lane is basically a glorified alley and all the lots fa the fronts of
alley and all the lots fa the fronts of the houses face either horse haven or
the houses face either horse haven or the open space. Is that correct?
the open space. Is that correct? >> Correct.
>> Correct. >> Okay. So they're out. So, okay, that
>> Okay. So they're out. So, okay, that makes sense. Thank you.
makes sense. Thank you. >> And they do provide parking along here.
>> And they do provide parking along here. The cottage homes do require 0.25
The cottage homes do require 0.25 off-site parking stalls per unit. And
off-site parking stalls per unit. And so, this is how the applicant decided to
so, this is how the applicant decided to meet that requirement.
>> Is there any on-site parking at the on the cottage homes?
the cottage homes? >> Well, they'll be required to meet the
>> Well, they'll be required to meet the two offsites per their units. So each
two offsites per their units. So each >> Yeah. So each one of there they have to
>> Yeah. So each one of there they have to have two for their lots.
have two for their lots. >> No different than any other single
>> No different than any other single family home.
family home. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So this this is their overflow parking.
>> So this this is their overflow parking. >> Overflow. Okay.
>> Overflow. Okay. >> And then the ones that are fronting on
>> And then the ones that are fronting on horse haven, they would have on street
horse haven, they would have on street parking adjacent to those lots in front
parking adjacent to those lots in front of their units.
>> And so there's only parking on one side there. is that you'd have parking on
there. is that you'd have parking on the um horse haven and then you'd have
the um horse haven and then you'd have these parking along this and
these parking along this and >> and then parking on the lots themselves.
>> and then parking on the lots themselves. >> Yep. Then you get two for each lot.
Then Horse Haven is improved. So it's kind of has that it's not a straight
kind of has that it's not a straight sidewalk. It's kind of
sidewalk. It's kind of >> Well, it's currently not improved in
>> Well, it's currently not improved in that image.
that image. >> Well, I know. It would be
>> Well, I know. It would be >> Yeah, it would be improved with curb
>> Yeah, it would be improved with curb swell and sidewalk. So, it's going to
swell and sidewalk. So, it's going to get widened at the time of development.
get widened at the time of development. >> But what I'm saying is it's kind of got
>> But what I'm saying is it's kind of got the like defined area like here's the
the like defined area like here's the parking a little bit off the actual main
parking a little bit off the actual main road. That's what those
road. That's what those >> is that what I'm looking at. Okay.
>> is that what I'm looking at. Okay. >> Well, that's their width of improvements
>> Well, that's their width of improvements where the actual striping and the
where the actual striping and the parking the parking lane is the south 8
parking the parking lane is the south 8 feet of that road section and then you'd
feet of that road section and then you'd still have your two travel lanes. Okay.
>> All right. >> What is up there in that corner?
>> What is up there in that corner? >> That existing house.
>> That existing house. >> This this corner
>> This this corner >> over up there. Yeah,
>> over up there. Yeah, >> that's Bob Gdon's old house.
>> that's Bob Gdon's old house. >> Not a part of existing house. It's not
>> Not a part of existing house. It's not part of the subdivision.
part of the subdivision. >> But okay. When this thing got annexed
>> But okay. When this thing got annexed in, there was a condition that the
in, there was a condition that the off-site improvements would be done at
off-site improvements would be done at the time of development. So, we will get
the time of development. So, we will get a completed intersection with
a completed intersection with development of this.
development of this. >> Okay,
>> Okay, >> it's good for thought.
>> Every now and then, >> right, it all comes together sometimes.
>> Hi, good evening. Scott MacArthur, MacArthur Engineering, here tonight on
MacArthur Engineering, here tonight on behalf of G2 Real Property Holdings LLC.
behalf of G2 Real Property Holdings LLC. uh we're talking about the G2
uh we're talking about the G2 development of we worked uh closely with
development of we worked uh closely with staff uh to uh to come up with a way to
staff uh to uh to come up with a way to implement uh our client's desired
implement uh our client's desired layout.
layout. Uh as Mr. Manley mentioned uh these two
Uh as Mr. Manley mentioned uh these two properties are in question here tonight
properties are in question here tonight with the yellow star signifying the R1
with the yellow star signifying the R1 zoned property that's in the city and
zoned property that's in the city and the uh pink star signifying the uh
the uh pink star signifying the uh requested annexation property.
requested annexation property. Uh currently the uh property to the east
Uh currently the uh property to the east the is zone a suburban uh innney county
the is zone a suburban uh innney county um as are the properties east of that uh
um as are the properties east of that uh which are single family residential
which are single family residential homes that uh it's highly unlikely that
homes that uh it's highly unlikely that we'll see those in my lifetime come into
we'll see those in my lifetime come into the city. Um the uh property to the
the city. Um the uh property to the north of that a subpropy is uh smart
north of that a subpropy is uh smart code uh very high density uh development
code uh very high density uh development uh attached structures attached units.
uh attached structures attached units. Um you have some R2 zoning as well with
Um you have some R2 zoning as well with some duplex units there in the orange
some duplex units there in the orange and then you have some R1 zone
and then you have some R1 zone properties uh to the west of that. Um
properties uh to the west of that. Um the R1 zone property right now that
the R1 zone property right now that we're that's in question uh has a single
we're that's in question uh has a single family residence with uh out structures
family residence with uh out structures and it's uh farmed on a routine basis as
and it's uh farmed on a routine basis as is the a sub property that's in the
is the a sub property that's in the county. Uh this is infill property. Uh
county. Uh this is infill property. Uh and as Mr. Manley mentioned um this uh
and as Mr. Manley mentioned um this uh area is in need of improvements to the
area is in need of improvements to the infrastructure to accommodate the
infrastructure to accommodate the traffic that we now have. It's also
traffic that we now have. It's also important to note that Horse Haven is a
important to note that Horse Haven is a corridor for Ross Point Water District.
corridor for Ross Point Water District. Uh, and this development will improve
Uh, and this development will improve the water system through this area.
the water system through this area. We'll get to that later on.
We'll get to that later on. Uh, again, just a quick slide just to
Uh, again, just a quick slide just to show the uh existing zonings and the
show the uh existing zonings and the requested zoning. So, you have some uh
requested zoning. So, you have some uh existing R1 zones, smart code, and we're
existing R1 zones, smart code, and we're requesting uh the residential mix zone
requesting uh the residential mix zone for this 18.02 acres.
for this 18.02 acres. Uh as Mr. Manley showed you, the uh
Uh as Mr. Manley showed you, the uh proposed subdivision,
proposed subdivision, uh we are limiting ourselves to the uh
uh we are limiting ourselves to the uh eight units per acre and we're working
eight units per acre and we're working with the city um to accommodate the
with the city um to accommodate the existing use to remain in place on the
existing use to remain in place on the uh western or excuse me, the eastern 10
uh western or excuse me, the eastern 10 acres of property uh that has a uh a
acres of property uh that has a uh a longtime resident uh who still uh farms
longtime resident uh who still uh farms that property and and has cattle and and
that property and and has cattle and and grazing. um that exists there until such
grazing. um that exists there until such time as he chooses to move. Yes.
time as he chooses to move. Yes. >> So, I've already asked this question,
>> So, I've already asked this question, but I'm ask you, you're the engineer.
but I'm ask you, you're the engineer. >> So, kind of all the way around and all
>> So, kind of all the way around and all up that side
up that side >> that would qualify as R1 right now.
>> that would qualify as R1 right now. >> Um
>> Um >> the size,
>> the size, >> correct? From from here on the east,
>> correct? From from here on the east, it's adjacent to similar 8,250 foot lots
it's adjacent to similar 8,250 foot lots here on in the county, but here on the
here on in the county, but here on the east, you you have roughly well, you
east, you you have roughly well, you have 43 single family homes that far
have 43 single family homes that far exceed the 6,500 foot minimum
exceed the 6,500 foot minimum requirement. Correct.
requirement. Correct. >> Uh this entire property could be
>> Uh this entire property could be developed with 6,500 foot lots, no open
developed with 6,500 foot lots, no open space, no traffic or, you know, no
space, no traffic or, you know, no empty.
empty. >> How many houses would that be?
>> How many houses would that be? >> It's hard to say.
>> It's hard to say. >> Estimation
>> Estimation >> six per acre.
>> six per acre. >> Yeah. Yeah. you're looking at five five
>> Yeah. Yeah. you're looking at five five units per acre. So, yeah, you know,
units per acre. So, yeah, you know, you're looking at a significant amount
you're looking at a significant amount of home. I mean, that's that's what
of home. I mean, that's that's what we're looking at the trade-off here for
we're looking at the trade-off here for the for the affordable opportunities,
the for the affordable opportunities, right?
right? >> Uh that can also share and be as serve
>> Uh that can also share and be as serve as a buffer between the high density to
as a buffer between the high density to the north and the uh requested existing
the north and the uh requested existing R1 to the south, east, and west.
R1 to the south, east, and west. >> So, would I be close to say that if it
>> So, would I be close to say that if it was just R1, you'd still have about the
was just R1, you'd still have about the same amount of houses?
same amount of houses? >> It's fairly close. Correct. Yeah.
>> It's fairly close. Correct. Yeah. Uh so again, here's a different look at
Uh so again, here's a different look at the proposed subdivision. Uh we've
the proposed subdivision. Uh we've provided the city with a preliminary
provided the city with a preliminary grading plan, uh storm water management
grading plan, uh storm water management plan, sanitary sewer plan, and water
plan, sanitary sewer plan, and water infrastructure plan.
infrastructure plan. Um here's the sewer plan. As as
Um here's the sewer plan. As as discussed before, this existing home
discussed before, this existing home here, there's several residences that
here, there's several residences that live on this property. Uh at the time of
live on this property. Uh at the time of development, this is a at least
development, this is a at least two-phase development. We're mentioned
two-phase development. We're mentioned two phases in the request. It's a at
two phases in the request. It's a at least two phases. I think that's the
least two phases. I think that's the language that we'd like to have in the
language that we'd like to have in the record tonight is something we discussed
record tonight is something we discussed with the city. Uh we originally looked
with the city. Uh we originally looked at starting the development with the
at starting the development with the west 8 plus acres moving into the 10
west 8 plus acres moving into the 10 acres to the east. However, depending on
acres to the east. However, depending on the occupancy uh remaining that existing
the occupancy uh remaining that existing home, uh it could turn into a three or
home, uh it could turn into a three or four phase development.
But that existing home is on a septic and that septic would be removed at the
and that septic would be removed at the time of development of that property. Uh
time of development of that property. Uh this or failure I guess of that existing
this or failure I guess of that existing system. Uh this existing home here is
system. Uh this existing home here is occupied by one of my clients uh one of
occupied by one of my clients uh one of the property owners. Uh and their home
the property owners. Uh and their home is planned to remain if you can see that
is planned to remain if you can see that sorry the mouse. Uh I believe there was
sorry the mouse. Uh I believe there was a question about that. They it will be
a question about that. They it will be connected to sewer at the time of
connected to sewer at the time of development. this existing home here. Uh
development. this existing home here. Uh there provisions in the plan to connect
there provisions in the plan to connect that home to sanitary sewer as well as
that home to sanitary sewer as well as well as the frontage improvements that
well as the frontage improvements that will be completed across that property
will be completed across that property as part of the annexation agreement that
as part of the annexation agreement that originally brought that property into
originally brought that property into the city.
the city. >> If this was approved RM
>> If this was approved RM >> could you walk right back around and
>> could you walk right back around and change that to apartments?
change that to apartments? >> Not with I don't believe without a a
>> Not with I don't believe without a a request for an amendment to the
request for an amendment to the approval.
approval. >> Correct.
>> Correct. And as it sits right now, there is no
And as it sits right now, there is no attached structures. These are all
attached structures. These are all standalone single family residential
standalone single family residential homes, which is consistent with what I
homes, which is consistent with what I think the intent of the R1 zone uh is.
think the intent of the R1 zone uh is. However, we're providing a significant
However, we're providing a significant amount of open space to to offset the
amount of open space to to offset the reduced lot sizes.
reduced lot sizes. >> Mr. McCarth?
>> Mr. McCarth? >> Yes, sir.
>> Yes, sir. >> Um I saw on your in your data table that
>> Um I saw on your in your data table that you're at 5.83 dwelling units per acre
you're at 5.83 dwelling units per acre on this. I want to make sure that's
on this. I want to make sure that's accurate before I ask you the next
accurate before I ask you the next question. I believe there's eight units
question. I believe there's eight units per acre.
per acre. >> It's eight units per acre. Okay.
>> It's eight units per acre. Okay. >> Um
Okay. Um would so if I'm understanding this
would so if I'm understanding this right, so if residential mix RM zone,
right, so if residential mix RM zone, um your client would be okay with a
um your client would be okay with a condition of no multif family
condition of no multif family development, attached multif family and
development, attached multif family and no commercial. That is correct.
no commercial. That is correct. >> And a density limitation of eight units
>> And a density limitation of eight units per acre.
per acre. >> I believe that I think that's correct
>> I believe that I think that's correct with consistent with the RM zoning. Is
with consistent with the RM zoning. Is that correct?
that correct? >> The RM zoning doesn't have a density.
>> The RM zoning doesn't have a density. >> It does not have a density.
>> It does not have a density. >> Does not have a density.
>> Does not have a density. >> I believe we discussed eight units per
>> I believe we discussed eight units per acre being our uh requested limitation
acre being our uh requested limitation >> which would be what the comprehensive
>> which would be what the comprehensive plan
plan >> correct. Yeah. Excuse me. Y
>> correct. Yeah. Excuse me. Y >> okay.
I I agree with the limitations that Ray
I agree with the limitations that Ray was just talking about. No multifamily
was just talking about. No multifamily if there's conditions put on this if it
if there's conditions put on this if it was approved.
was approved. >> And and I think once we get a little bit
>> And and I think once we get a little bit further into the presentation, I think
further into the presentation, I think you'll understand the intent of the
you'll understand the intent of the development is to provide uh that much
development is to provide uh that much needed opportunity for single family
needed opportunity for single family residential ownership, not rental
residential ownership, not rental opportunities uh that come with the you
opportunities uh that come with the you know there there's an area that is in
know there there's an area that is in need of that multif family. I live
need of that multif family. I live within a half mile of this development.
within a half mile of this development. Uh I do not prefer to have that in this
Uh I do not prefer to have that in this area additional in this area.
area additional in this area. So here's a typical R1 type lot layout.
So here's a typical R1 type lot layout. Uh this is lot 12. Uh backs up to the
Uh this is lot 12. Uh backs up to the open space. That's about a 4,000 square
open space. That's about a 4,000 square footprint
footprint on the ground uh for a typical R1 home.
on the ground uh for a typical R1 home. I don't anticipate a home of that size
I don't anticipate a home of that size being constructed there, but this is
being constructed there, but this is what you could build with your rear
what you could build with your rear patio, with your front porch. Uh, all
patio, with your front porch. Uh, all meeting City of Post Falls allowable
meeting City of Post Falls allowable setbacks
setbacks consistent with the R1 zoning. This is
consistent with the R1 zoning. This is your typical
your typical cottage home. Uh, the lots that we're
cottage home. Uh, the lots that we're proposing are 30 foot wide. Uh, we meet
proposing are 30 foot wide. Uh, we meet the requirements with this layout. Uh
the requirements with this layout. Uh that is an 882 square footprint
that is an 882 square footprint uh consistent with previous approvals
uh consistent with previous approvals actually exceeding previous approvals
actually exceeding previous approvals for projects in the city uh for the
for projects in the city uh for the cottage home development.
cottage home development. Uh this is a typical image of what we're
Uh this is a typical image of what we're proposing. Uh you could put a two-story
proposing. Uh you could put a two-story product here, but right now this is a a
product here, but right now this is a a typical approval with the front loaded
typical approval with the front loaded to the park, open space or rideway. Uh
to the park, open space or rideway. Uh the rear loaded access to a garage
the rear loaded access to a garage uh to off- streetet parking. And I would
uh to off- streetet parking. And I would like to go back real fast to the uh
like to go back real fast to the uh parking question that was raised earlier
parking question that was raised earlier as well. So, in addition to the required
as well. So, in addition to the required uh
uh supportive parking, I would say for
supportive parking, I would say for cottage homes, we also have six
cottage homes, we also have six additional spaces in the middle adjacent
additional spaces in the middle adjacent to open space with a sidewalk connecting
to open space with a sidewalk connecting to Horse Haven. We also have some off-
to Horse Haven. We also have some off- streetet designated off- streetet uh
streetet designated off- streetet uh parking that's uh going to be provided
parking that's uh going to be provided uh near the open space park and kind of
uh near the open space park and kind of a mix between the single family use.
a mix between the single family use. It's all single family, but the the
It's all single family, but the the larger single family lots and the
larger single family lots and the smaller single family lots.
smaller single family lots. So again, uh why obtainable housing? Uh
So again, uh why obtainable housing? Uh it's needed. U I want my kids to return
it's needed. U I want my kids to return here and own a home. I want them to be
here and own a home. I want them to be able to afford that opportunity. We
able to afford that opportunity. We don't have a lot of that opportunity. We
don't have a lot of that opportunity. We have one development in the city right
have one development in the city right now, two developments I should say, that
now, two developments I should say, that I know of that are being developed with
I know of that are being developed with that type of product. Um, I think this
that type of product. Um, I think this area is conducive for that and uh and
area is conducive for that and uh and that's why I bring it forward tonight to
that's why I bring it forward tonight to you. Uh, I I know a lot of uh veterans
you. Uh, I I know a lot of uh veterans and um seniors in the area that need uh
and um seniors in the area that need uh lowmaintenance affordable housing. They
lowmaintenance affordable housing. They don't need a 4,000 square foot square
don't need a 4,000 square foot square foot home. They need something that they
foot home. They need something that they can live in, be proud of with ownership.
can live in, be proud of with ownership. So that's why uh we bring this forward
So that's why uh we bring this forward tonight. Again, it's a transition from
tonight. Again, it's a transition from your higher density on the north side of
your higher density on the north side of Horse Haven through the south side of
Horse Haven through the south side of Horse Haven into your larger R1 size
Horse Haven into your larger R1 size lots. Uh with this development
lots. Uh with this development requirement comes amenities and open
requirement comes amenities and open space requirements. uh sidewalks,
space requirements. uh sidewalks, typical image of what our frontage
typical image of what our frontage sidewalk would look like. The homes
sidewalk would look like. The homes would have access to this sidewalk
would have access to this sidewalk through our open space. Um
through our open space. Um and that this sidewalk would uh traverse
and that this sidewalk would uh traverse from this private road section through
from this private road section through the property and connect to the sidewalk
the property and connect to the sidewalk along our north south street and it
along our north south street and it would also provide an inner block
would also provide an inner block connection to Horse Haven as well.
connection to Horse Haven as well. um the timing of this connection and the
um the timing of this connection and the timing of the completion of that
timing of the completion of that sidewalk would all be based on the
sidewalk would all be based on the phasing um and allowable uh density uh
phasing um and allowable uh density uh for single point of access.
So uh as Mr. mainly stated uh and I won't reiterate um I believe it's been
won't reiterate um I believe it's been well covered. Uh we do meet the four re
well covered. Uh we do meet the four re uh criteria for annexation for our east
uh criteria for annexation for our east 10.05 acres. Uh I can go through those
10.05 acres. Uh I can go through those if you would like, but I think we've
if you would like, but I think we've covered those well in our narrative and
covered those well in our narrative and Mr. Manley's staff report and as his
Mr. Manley's staff report and as his presentation stated, uh those are met.
presentation stated, uh those are met. Uh the three zone change criteria.
Uh the three zone change criteria. Again, uh the request for the zone
Again, uh the request for the zone change comes on the request for
change comes on the request for annexation. We think it's it's a best
annexation. We think it's it's a best fit for the property. We feel it's a
fit for the property. We feel it's a conducive use to what's surrounding. Uh
conducive use to what's surrounding. Uh it's a nice transition to what we expect
it's a nice transition to what we expect to occur to be developed along 16th
to occur to be developed along 16th Avenue uh at some point in the future.
Avenue uh at some point in the future. Uh and then you're looking at your six
Uh and then you're looking at your six subdivision approval criteria. Again, uh
subdivision approval criteria. Again, uh each item has been addressed in the
each item has been addressed in the narrative and in Mr. Manley's
narrative and in Mr. Manley's presentation. I don't want to reiterate
presentation. I don't want to reiterate those again. I think we've uh addressed
those again. I think we've uh addressed each item sufficiently and we meet all
each item sufficiently and we meet all the requirements and I will stand for
the requirements and I will stand for questions.
questions. >> Hey, Scott.
>> Hey, Scott. >> Yes. on the um condition on the
>> Yes. on the um condition on the subdivision about two or more phases. Um
subdivision about two or more phases. Um would you be open to an additional
would you be open to an additional condition that says prior to commencing
condition that says prior to commencing phase three that the open space would be
phase three that the open space would be completed and the frontage improvements
completed and the frontage improvements would be completed and or bonded for?
I think the only concern I have with that is the location of the existing
that is the location of the existing structures along Horse Haven that
structures along Horse Haven that encroach into
encroach into >> That's why the bonded for so you
>> That's why the bonded for so you wouldn't have to complete it.
wouldn't have to complete it. >> Yeah, I think the bonded for would be
>> Yeah, I think the bonded for would be sufficient. Yeah.
sufficient. Yeah. >> So that way you
>> So that way you >> Yeah, because I that's where I want
>> Yeah, because I that's where I want added that because I the sensitivity to
added that because I the sensitivity to our previous conversations. So
our previous conversations. So >> I think that would be um that would be
>> I think that would be um that would be consistent with uh our intent. I think
consistent with uh our intent. I think that'd be great. concern I have is you
that'd be great. concern I have is you get three quarters through and then you
get three quarters through and then you have outstanding obligations and then if
have outstanding obligations and then if the project fell apart then you know
the project fell apart then you know then it puts the city in an awkward
then it puts the city in an awkward position
position >> and I think it's a similar statement as
>> and I think it's a similar statement as uh at the time of annexation of the
uh at the time of annexation of the western 10 the original 10 acres that
western 10 the original 10 acres that was annexed into the city as R1 uh the
was annexed into the city as R1 uh the intent at the time of development was to
intent at the time of development was to complete the improvements at that
complete the improvements at that intersection and we don't want to forgo
intersection and we don't want to forgo those improvements so I think that's I
those improvements so I think that's I think that condition andor bonded for
think that condition andor bonded for would appropriate
would appropriate >> two for two on the forethought.
>> Uh Mr. MacArthur. >> Yes, sir.
>> Yes, sir. >> Um I got a question for you and I'm
>> Um I got a question for you and I'm going to preface it by saying that um I
going to preface it by saying that um I appreciate the fact that this is an
appreciate the fact that this is an attempt to provide affordable housing
attempt to provide affordable housing and private roads are a double-edged
and private roads are a double-edged sword.
sword. >> Correct.
>> Correct. >> Right. Mhm.
>> Right. Mhm. >> Because they're great now and in 30
>> Because they're great now and in 30 years from now and I happen to live on
years from now and I happen to live on one and you know that um
one and you know that um they require replacement and then people
they require replacement and then people come to the city and they say, "Hey, we
come to the city and they say, "Hey, we take over my road um because we don't
take over my road um because we don't have enough money to replace it." And
have enough money to replace it." And usually, at least in most cases, it's
usually, at least in most cases, it's because the development and the
because the development and the homeowners association was not set up to
homeowners association was not set up to properly fund
properly fund um road maintenance and eventual s
um road maintenance and eventual s resurfacing and whatnot. And so should
resurfacing and whatnot. And so should this get to an approval point tonight,
this get to an approval point tonight, would you and I'm gonna
would you and I'm gonna I wrote this a little bit earlier. So
I wrote this a little bit earlier. So would you be okay with a condition that
would you be okay with a condition that said with regards to the private roads
said with regards to the private roads the developer
the developer is would provide for a mechanism within
is would provide for a mechanism within the CCNRs for a road maintenance and
the CCNRs for a road maintenance and eventual for road maintenance and
eventual for road maintenance and eventual resurfacing
eventual resurfacing and shall provide for a funding
and shall provide for a funding mechanism to adequately fund those
mechanism to adequately fund those maintenance costs in addition to and
maintenance costs in addition to and separate from other HOA expenses.
separate from other HOA expenses. So like a syncing fund for capex.
So like a syncing fund for capex. >> Yeah, it's a sinking fund for the
>> Yeah, it's a sinking fund for the streets. That's aside from the
streets. That's aside from the maintenance for the
maintenance for the the
the open space and grass and mowing and
open space and grass and mowing and whatever else the snow plowing and the m
whatever else the snow plowing and the m the that stuff that at least provide for
the that stuff that at least provide for a mechanism so it happens so that it it
a mechanism so it happens so that it it doesn't set them up for failure. Could I
doesn't set them up for failure. Could I make that condition read uh that a
make that condition read uh that a seeking fund analysis can be completed
seeking fund analysis can be completed with staff prior to the development of
with staff prior to the development of the private road improvements or lots
the private road improvements or lots adjacent to private road improvements?
adjacent to private road improvements? >> I mean, however you put the mechanism
>> I mean, however you put the mechanism into the CCNRs, I'm just asking for
into the CCNRs, I'm just asking for there to be a mechanism within the CCNRs
there to be a mechanism within the CCNRs that provides for and funds. How that is
that provides for and funds. How that is divided up amongst the lots is
divided up amongst the lots is completely up to I would say the
completely up to I would say the developer but
developer but >> I think for mechanism
>> I think for mechanism >> and sorry I think my concern and and
>> and sorry I think my concern and and you've dealt with similar projects like
you've dealt with similar projects like this uh my concern is um the way the
this uh my concern is um the way the CCNRs are are written um
I I I don't disagree. I think we can do it. Let's simplify it. Let's keep the
it. Let's simplify it. Let's keep the sinking point. Yes. Let's let's analyze
sinking point. Yes. Let's let's analyze it that way. I think you can get
it that way. I think you can get creative enough to make it work. It's
creative enough to make it work. It's just it's something that needs to be
just it's something that needs to be there for private roads.
there for private roads. >> I think that over time with my
>> I think that over time with my experience, I I think that uh we've
experience, I I think that uh we've learned what not to do and what to do
learned what not to do and what to do with those situations. I too lived on a
with those situations. I too lived on a private uh in a private development in
private uh in a private development in the Greenside Vistas area when I first
the Greenside Vistas area when I first uh showed up uh back at home after
uh showed up uh back at home after college. And um that was one of the
college. And um that was one of the problems that we did have at that time
problems that we did have at that time is the developer um had to step in and
is the developer um had to step in and he did step up uh another local
he did step up uh another local developer and he took care of the
developer and he took care of the private roads until such time as our HOA
private roads until such time as our HOA could get on their feet um outside of
could get on their feet um outside of his original commitment which was
his original commitment which was helpful. So I think that could be uh
helpful. So I think that could be uh taken care of in the CCNRs. Yes.
taken care of in the CCNRs. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. We so we've been advised not to do that
We so we've been advised not to do that in the past
in the past that we we can't
that we we can't require that
require that >> it would be yeah we would condition it
>> it would be yeah we would condition it on our CCNRs
on our CCNRs >> or as a part of our
>> or as a part of our >> I specifically asked for it on other
>> I specifically asked for it on other projects
projects >> have you
>> have you >> and said we can't do that
>> and said we can't do that >> I'm looking at council here now if I was
>> I'm looking at council here now if I was speaking out of turn
speaking out of turn >> well
>> well generally we don't well we don't enforce
generally we don't well we don't enforce CCNRs private agreement among landos or
CCNRs private agreement among landos or anything else how they I mean I can see
anything else how they I mean I can see it being tied to the future city
it being tied to the future city acceptance of abandoned private
acceptance of abandoned private roadways. So, as a condition of approval
roadways. So, as a condition of approval that the developer shall include in in
that the developer shall include in in their CCNRs. I mean, we already have
their CCNRs. I mean, we already have them. In fact, I think there's a
them. In fact, I think there's a recommendation currently for
recommendation currently for homeowners association being formed for
homeowners association being formed for the ownership and maintenance of the
the ownership and maintenance of the internal private roadway and tract A. I
internal private roadway and tract A. I don't remember Mr. Shriber's previous re
don't remember Mr. Shriber's previous re uh discussion on that issue, but I think
uh discussion on that issue, but I think you can include in that condition if
you can include in that condition if it's amendable to this uh type of a
it's amendable to this uh type of a situation that uh they provide for
situation that uh they provide for future funding of the roadway to be
future funding of the roadway to be maintained by the HOA as well. You know,
maintained by the HOA as well. You know, something
something >> fantastic. I would love to have it on.
>> fantastic. I would love to have it on. Anytime we have a private road, we are
Anytime we have a private road, we are facing a nightmare in the future.
facing a nightmare in the future. >> Yeah. The reality is the city gets
>> Yeah. The reality is the city gets petitioned for these and we have a new
petitioned for these and we have a new policy. The city has this acceptance of
policy. The city has this acceptance of private roadway policy where the city
private roadway policy where the city council looks at these and says, "Yeah,
council looks at these and says, "Yeah, is this in the best interest of the the
is this in the best interest of the the citizens to accept this private roadway,
citizens to accept this private roadway, bring it up to standards and alleviate
bring it up to standards and alleviate this prior HOA's burden that never
this prior HOA's burden that never really took off." And just to elaborate
really took off." And just to elaborate on that, the private roadway that um the
on that, the private roadway that um the cottage home development and the private
cottage home development and the private roadway have uh we're working on that
roadway have uh we're working on that path forward, right? There's a standard
path forward, right? There's a standard in the city. Uh recently we had a
in the city. Uh recently we had a project approved for uh cottage homes.
project approved for uh cottage homes. Uh we weren't expecting it, but we know
Uh we weren't expecting it, but we know the reason for it. We've now since uh
the reason for it. We've now since uh revised our plan set to include
revised our plan set to include sidewalks. Uh kind of more of an updated
sidewalks. Uh kind of more of an updated private road standard, not an alley.
private road standard, not an alley. It's uh you know there's there's
It's uh you know there's there's improvements that that are being made
improvements that that are being made that I think
that I think while um there are struggles in the city
while um there are struggles in the city I think there's um reason to to make
I think there's um reason to to make these improvements because everyone in
these improvements because everyone in this particular development will
this particular development will actually have to use this road and and
actually have to use this road and and so I think when you have a stake in it
so I think when you have a stake in it in this particular cottage home portion
in this particular cottage home portion of the development when you have that
of the development when you have that kind of stake in it I think you
kind of stake in it I think you understand the importance and you set
understand the importance and you set forth uh association fees and uh and you
forth uh association fees and uh and you you have your syncing fund calcul
you have your syncing fund calcul regulations amortized out for 20 years
regulations amortized out for 20 years and you you work it out. So
and you you work it out. So >> and and I think my previous concerns are
>> and and I think my previous concerns are really the enforceability of such a
really the enforceability of such a mechanism, Chris, in the future. Is the
mechanism, Chris, in the future. Is the city going to get in there and enforce a
city going to get in there and enforce a CCNR that was adopted 20 years ago? It's
CCNR that was adopted 20 years ago? It's it's a difficult task for the city to
it's a difficult task for the city to come in afterwards many years later and
come in afterwards many years later and then to say, "Oh yeah, we we approved
then to say, "Oh yeah, we we approved this as a condition 25 years ago. How
this as a condition 25 years ago. How would we enforce that?" So it's probably
would we enforce that?" So it's probably an
an >> enforcement. My concern isn't that that
>> enforcement. My concern isn't that that this project or any project is isn't
this project or any project is isn't meeting code. I think it My
meeting code. I think it My initial look at it is that it does, but
initial look at it is that it does, but the bigger concern is especially when
the bigger concern is especially when we're talking about affordable housing.
we're talking about affordable housing. So, we have people that stretch to get
So, we have people that stretch to get into the house. And not saying it's
into the house. And not saying it's happened here, but in other
happened here, but in other subdivisions,
subdivisions, the
the HOA dues are kept artificially low
HOA dues are kept artificially low >> so that people can afford to get in. And
>> so that people can afford to get in. And then the project's done. Developer's
then the project's done. Developer's gone. Guess what? You're now responsible
gone. Guess what? You're now responsible for this landscaping, all this common
for this landscaping, all this common fencing, roads, sidewalks, all kinds of
fencing, roads, sidewalks, all kinds of stuff that's private. And now is the
stuff that's private. And now is the association responsibility. And those
association responsibility. And those dues quadruple. And all of a sudden,
dues quadruple. And all of a sudden, you've got all these individual
you've got all these individual homeowners screaming and class action
homeowners screaming and class action lawsuits and all this stuff that
lawsuits and all this stuff that happens. Not saying it's the city's
happens. Not saying it's the city's responsibility. I'm just thinking we
responsibility. I'm just thinking we should be aware of it and plan for I I
should be aware of it and plan for I I not saying this project is even in that
not saying this project is even in that situation. Just
situation. Just >> I I live in a development and it's R1
>> I I live in a development and it's R1 zoned. Um we have a very small open
zoned. Um we have a very small open space. My HOA fees have doubled
space. My HOA fees have doubled >> exactly
>> exactly >> and my question to my association is
>> and my question to my association is often what am I paying for? You know,
often what am I paying for? You know, it's city maintained property
it's city maintained property essentially in various areas. Uh that's
essentially in various areas. Uh that's my question, right? Maintenance of costs
my question, right? Maintenance of costs have gone up. you know, every all the
have gone up. you know, every all the costs have gone up because the cost of
costs have gone up because the cost of living has gone up here significantly.
living has gone up here significantly. So, I think uh as Mr. Kimmel mentioned,
So, I think uh as Mr. Kimmel mentioned, providing that sinking fund, which is
providing that sinking fund, which is not regularly a part of developments
not regularly a part of developments here, but more so a part of developments
here, but more so a part of developments in other jurisdictions that we work in,
in other jurisdictions that we work in, I think would help us understand and
I think would help us understand and maybe as part of the CCNRs and a
maybe as part of the CCNRs and a reiteration at the time of purchase
reiteration at the time of purchase because these are purchased homes,
because these are purchased homes, right? Um, and I think uh understanding
right? Um, and I think uh understanding that at the time of purchase, sitting at
that at the time of purchase, sitting at the title company trying to sign 200
the title company trying to sign 200 sheets to to buy a home is is daunting,
sheets to to buy a home is is daunting, but when you're hit with that two or
but when you're hit with that two or three times and you understand that, I
three times and you understand that, I think that could be a part of the
think that could be a part of the conditions of the purchase that you
conditions of the purchase that you understand this.
understand this. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Well, it may be new to some things in
>> Well, it may be new to some things in postfalls. It's not a new concept. I
postfalls. It's not a new concept. I mean, I've done it many jurisdictions
mean, I've done it many jurisdictions and
and >> the the goal is to set it up for
>> the the goal is to set it up for success. Correct. Um, now most
success. Correct. Um, now most homeowners associates, we all know that
homeowners associates, we all know that most home owners associations are not
most home owners associations are not usually run by people who are
usually run by people who are development or savvy to those kinds of
development or savvy to those kinds of things. So, if you set them up for
things. So, if you set them up for success, at least gives them a fighting
success, at least gives them a fighting shot,
shot, >> correct,
>> correct, >> of staying solvent because I mean the
>> of staying solvent because I mean the reality is once the fees get too high,
reality is once the fees get too high, people stop paying them and then it just
people stop paying them and then it just gets snowballs and gets worse. Correct.
gets snowballs and gets worse. Correct. Um, so thank you for um
Um, so thank you for um being accepting of that.
being accepting of that. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Any other questions for the applicant?
>> Any other questions for the applicant? >> Right. Thank you.
>> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Public testimony.
All right. Not wishing to speak in opposition. Tara Wolf.
opposition. Tara Wolf. Uh we live on the corner of Sering and
Uh we live on the corner of Sering and Horse Haven. Uh we have been aware that
Horse Haven. Uh we have been aware that the field surrounding our home was going
the field surrounding our home was going to be developed for years. However, we
to be developed for years. However, we are concerned with the number of homes
are concerned with the number of homes now proposed. Suring is 25 miles per
now proposed. Suring is 25 miles per hour, horse safe haven, and is also 25
hour, horse safe haven, and is also 25 mile.
mile. very fairly rural area compared to
very fairly rural area compared to others. 100 plus homes would increase
others. 100 plus homes would increase traffic in this area beyond what our
traffic in this area beyond what our infrastructure supports. We would
infrastructure supports. We would support less houses, reasonable
support less houses, reasonable additions,
additions, no cottage lots or tiny homes. Leave as
no cottage lots or tiny homes. Leave as R1, not residential mix
R1, not residential mix R2 and limit the number of homes.
wishing to speak in opposition. Kersh Lacier Lacier.
Thank you. So, um, hi, my name is Christy Lacader.
So, um, hi, my name is Christy Lacader. I live at 1842 East Prairie View Drive,
I live at 1842 East Prairie View Drive, which is an unannexed uh property or
which is an unannexed uh property or development just to the east of the
development just to the east of the proposed um u phase 2 plan that um Chris
proposed um u phase 2 plan that um Chris was talking about. Uh it, you know, it's
was talking about. Uh it, you know, it's first and foremost my primary goal to
first and foremost my primary goal to maintain or enhance and improve our
maintain or enhance and improve our properties. Um, and I'm concerned about
properties. Um, and I'm concerned about the uh
the uh medium density cottage homes of 105
medium density cottage homes of 105 homes means to me 200 plus cars a day
homes means to me 200 plus cars a day driving down Prairie View, 100 kids
driving down Prairie View, 100 kids playing on their bicycles without
playing on their bicycles without uh finished sidewalks
uh finished sidewalks towards the direction of the elementary
towards the direction of the elementary school that we were talking about in the
school that we were talking about in the previous uh hearing. So, I think it's
previous uh hearing. So, I think it's Prairie View Elementary is just right
Prairie View Elementary is just right around the corner. So, the developer
around the corner. So, the developer plans to improve the property along
plans to improve the property along Horse Haven, but it stops at the end of
Horse Haven, but it stops at the end of the development, and that is the
the development, and that is the opposite direction of where the
opposite direction of where the elementary school is. Uh, I walk my dogs
elementary school is. Uh, I walk my dogs down that road frequently, and the
down that road frequently, and the traffic that goes by doesn't adhere to
traffic that goes by doesn't adhere to the 20 mph zone or 25 mph zone. There's
the 20 mph zone or 25 mph zone. There's no space for us to walk. So the kids
no space for us to walk. So the kids safety is um you know important and I
safety is um you know important and I wonder what the city plans on doing to
wonder what the city plans on doing to mitigate the risk for kids. Um you know
mitigate the risk for kids. Um you know I am pleased to hear that there is a
I am pleased to hear that there is a plan in place for green space. Currently
plan in place for green space. Currently there are no parks around. So, you know,
there are no parks around. So, you know, in an effort to decrease the hooliganism
in an effort to decrease the hooliganism that comes with children naturally, um I
that comes with children naturally, um I am pleased that the developer uh is
am pleased that the developer uh is considering that, but um I would like to
considering that, but um I would like to consider maybe more green space or park
consider maybe more green space or park uh and maybe less homes. Uh another huge
uh and maybe less homes. Uh another huge concern of mine is the infrastructure.
concern of mine is the infrastructure. We have aerial uh power and cable that
We have aerial uh power and cable that is currently serving all of our homes.
is currently serving all of our homes. So with this development, what will be
So with this development, what will be the plan for that infrastructure? Am I
the plan for that infrastructure? Am I as a homeowner going to be required to
as a homeowner going to be required to now change our power outlet uh in order
now change our power outlet uh in order to accommodate their development? That's
to accommodate their development? That's uh pretty important for me. Um, the
uh pretty important for me. Um, the other thing I'd really like to ensure is
other thing I'd really like to ensure is what the plan in place will be for
what the plan in place will be for drainage into our yards. We back up to
drainage into our yards. We back up to the east side of their development and I
the east side of their development and I understand that's phase two in its
understand that's phase two in its future, but uh, you know, I drive by
future, but uh, you know, I drive by developments all the time and I see BMS
developments all the time and I see BMS going down into fencing and we are all
going down into fencing and we are all on individual septics. We don't have
on individual septics. We don't have access to sewer because we are unaccess
access to sewer because we are unaccess uh unanexed and it's too much money for
uh unanexed and it's too much money for our development to access those sewers.
our development to access those sewers. So we are stuck on septics and so if
So we are stuck on septics and so if their drainage comes and fills our
their drainage comes and fills our backyards with ponds that's problematic.
backyards with ponds that's problematic. And so if this doesn't happen for 10
And so if this doesn't happen for 10 years, what is our plan or our course of
years, what is our plan or our course of action to be able to get the support we
action to be able to get the support we need to fix the drainage problem that
need to fix the drainage problem that isn't working? Um,
I really want to just reiterate those questions.
want to just reiterate those questions. I'd also like to know the price point of
I'd also like to know the price point of the homes. Our goal is to improve our
the homes. Our goal is to improve our property and bringing these cottage
property and bringing these cottage homes in that are low income that are
homes in that are low income that are affordable with unobtainable HOA fees
affordable with unobtainable HOA fees will just and
will just and quality of the product is that going to
quality of the product is that going to promote uh an improvement in our area.
promote uh an improvement in our area. So I am over I appreciate you listening
So I am over I appreciate you listening to me uh and I think appreciate your
to me uh and I think appreciate your consideration of maybe a modification of
consideration of maybe a modification of the number of homes and a plan for the
the number of homes and a plan for the sidewalks etc.
sidewalks etc. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Wishing to speak in opposition Terry Switzer.
All right. In that case, I will read uh in opposition. There's no need for
uh in opposition. There's no need for this. There are four similar.
I think this was for the last one because this says fuel stations.
>> I didn't grab the other one. >> I recognize the name from the last one.
>> I recognize the name from the last one. >> Yeah.
Yeah, this talks about the pipeline and schools
schools over there.
>> Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. MacArthur, for explaining and for the u
MacArthur, for explaining and for the u u
u all the pictures showing. My wife and I
all the pictures showing. My wife and I are actually the owners of Bugs's Old
are actually the owners of Bugs's Old House. We bought that from John and Deb
House. We bought that from John and Deb seven years ago back in 2017. John has
seven years ago back in 2017. John has been extremely forthcoming and honest
been extremely forthcoming and honest with the development and informed us at
with the development and informed us at each process of the way even though
each process of the way even though there's been some months here and there.
there's been some months here and there. The first conceptual plan that we saw
The first conceptual plan that we saw two years ago was significantly less
two years ago was significantly less homes, but there were cottage lots in
homes, but there were cottage lots in there. Now I've seen it on film and like
there. Now I've seen it on film and like John said, this isn't about making
John said, this isn't about making money. It's about a legacy. There's
money. It's about a legacy. There's going to be walkways. There's going to
going to be walkways. There's going to be areas.
be areas. Couple of concerns I got is like when
Couple of concerns I got is like when you guys were talking about the HOA fees
you guys were talking about the HOA fees in the roads, we're not going to be a
in the roads, we're not going to be a part of this HOA. And years ago, me and
part of this HOA. And years ago, me and John and my wife had to come down here
John and my wife had to come down here because we built a shop on the property
because we built a shop on the property where the swimming pool used to be, but
where the swimming pool used to be, but we were told by the city that we
we were told by the city that we couldn't build this big of a shop
couldn't build this big of a shop because we went over the 84% threshold
because we went over the 84% threshold unless you gave the frontage right
unless you gave the frontage right improvements. Well, we're not developing
improvements. Well, we're not developing the field. Mr. Given is. So, we came
the field. Mr. Given is. So, we came down, sat down with the city, and we had
down, sat down with the city, and we had to we were forced to basically build a
to we were forced to basically build a smaller shop,
smaller shop, and we were also told that we were both
and we were also told that we were both going to lose our driveways. Now, in the
going to lose our driveways. Now, in the plan, I see that his driveway is going
plan, I see that his driveway is going to be turned into an alley, but we are
to be turned into an alley, but we are being forced to possibly lose our
being forced to possibly lose our driveway. We're not paying HOA fees, but
driveway. We're not paying HOA fees, but we're being forced to use private roads.
we're being forced to use private roads. Our address used to be Seringa. What's
Our address used to be Seringa. What's it going to be now? Who pays for the
it going to be now? Who pays for the mailbox? Who does this?
mailbox? Who does this? Um we're on we we are annexed. We're
Um we're on we we are annexed. We're already in the city. Um John actually
already in the city. Um John actually came over a few months ago and talked to
came over a few months ago and talked to us about you know the city might even
us about you know the city might even want be easier if we just reszone
want be easier if we just reszone everything and bring our parcel into it.
everything and bring our parcel into it. Would I prefer R1 over R2? Yes. If we
Would I prefer R1 over R2? Yes. If we stay with what the conceptual plan is of
stay with what the conceptual plan is of affordable living house cottage lots
affordable living house cottage lots only twotory.
only twotory. You got to play nice and you got to work
You got to play nice and you got to work together. I grew up in southern Idaho in
together. I grew up in southern Idaho in the fastest growing county. You're the
the fastest growing county. You're the fastest growing city and I live in the
fastest growing city and I live in the second fastest growing set city in the
second fastest growing set city in the second fastest growing county. Gross's
second fastest growing county. Gross's coming. So, we all kind of got to work
coming. So, we all kind of got to work together. But
together. But if it's going to be that many lots,
if it's going to be that many lots, minimum of two people per household,
minimum of two people per household, that's 200 cars. Then you had a couple
that's 200 cars. Then you had a couple of high school kids in there. One of the
of high school kids in there. One of the other concerns I had and the first thing
other concerns I had and the first thing that I read in here really stuck out was
that I read in here really stuck out was smallcale neighborhood commercial office
smallcale neighborhood commercial office uses may be suitable within res
uses may be suitable within res residential mix zones. So does that mean
residential mix zones. So does that mean we're going to put a Starbucks in that
we're going to put a Starbucks in that neighborhood as well? Does that mean
neighborhood as well? Does that mean it's going to be convenience store with
it's going to be convenience store with a sandwich shop without the gas pumps
a sandwich shop without the gas pumps bringing more people onto private roads
bringing more people onto private roads that the HOA has to pay for?
that the HOA has to pay for? So, there's a lot of questions as far as
So, there's a lot of questions as far as where we fit into this development.
where we fit into this development. Maybe we can talk with Mr. MacArthur
Maybe we can talk with Mr. MacArthur later this evening or something, but
later this evening or something, but we're kind of in our own little island
we're kind of in our own little island on a corner. I will say this, it is
on a corner. I will say this, it is going to be great to have sidewalks. Um,
going to be great to have sidewalks. Um, we have kids that ride through and I
we have kids that ride through and I tell them, you can ride through our yard
tell them, you can ride through our yard all you want because the intersections
all you want because the intersections are getting busier, the high school's
are getting busier, the high school's getting more kids. They're using um
getting more kids. They're using um Horse Haven, you know, to get down to
Horse Haven, you know, to get down to Greens Fairy real quick. They are only
Greens Fairy real quick. They are only 25 mph roads. The nice thing is we have
25 mph roads. The nice thing is we have police officers that live locally and
police officers that live locally and they keep an eye on the place, but it's
they keep an eye on the place, but it's coming and you're just going to add more
coming and you're just going to add more to the plate when you put a development
to the plate when you put a development like this in here. So, those are my
like this in here. So, those are my concerns as it is. You're not going to
concerns as it is. You're not going to make everybody happy.
make everybody happy. Um, but I appreciate your guys' late
Um, but I appreciate your guys' late night and your time and listening to
night and your time and listening to everybody. So, thank you.
everybody. So, thank you. >> Thank you.
wishing to speak. Neutral Angie Hman.
Okay. So, I just want I just have actually one question as far as like
actually one question as far as like Okay. So if I understand this correctly,
Okay. So if I understand this correctly, we're not building like any apartments,
we're not building like any apartments, duplexes or multiplexes there. Correct.
duplexes or multiplexes there. Correct. In that area.
In that area. >> That's what I understand.
>> That's what I understand. >> Okay. And then so
>> Okay. And then so and I have very much a lot of same
and I have very much a lot of same concerns as you do with our property
concerns as you do with our property backs up right there. And so about the
backs up right there. And so about the drainage. Yep. I wholeheartedly have a
drainage. Yep. I wholeheartedly have a big huge concern about that. if if
big huge concern about that. if if there's something implemented in there
there's something implemented in there or making sure that they have that uh
or making sure that they have that uh because I know that that was an issue on
because I know that that was an issue on the Prairie and uh Prairie and Spokane
the Prairie and uh Prairie and Spokane Street, that whole area, because that's
Street, that whole area, because that's where my son had owned his was that
where my son had owned his was that their drainage was not done correctly.
their drainage was not done correctly. And uh so I would like to see less homes
And uh so I would like to see less homes there as well. And uh
there as well. And uh and then as far as the uh if they have
and then as far as the uh if they have like any type of a something implemented
like any type of a something implemented for like fence for our fence line like
for like fence for our fence line like right now it's just the electric fence
right now it's just the electric fence just a fence if they're planning on
just a fence if they're planning on putting up like a property thing. And
putting up like a property thing. And then the other part that I the other
then the other part that I the other question that I have is I know on
question that I have is I know on Poland or not Poland Greens Ferry and
Poland or not Poland Greens Ferry and 16th I think it is the property that got
16th I think it is the property that got sold over there the place that was
sold over there the place that was that's still existing right there that
that's still existing right there that had all that property they put like a
had all that property they put like a fence right there but they also put a
fence right there but they also put a gate that goes right into their yard
gate that goes right into their yard that they can't do anything about. And I
that they can't do anything about. And I just want to make sure that there's not
just want to make sure that there's not going to be something done like that.
going to be something done like that. The Cleaves own that one. They used to
The Cleaves own that one. They used to anyways and then they sold it and
anyways and then they sold it and whoever bought it like when they sold
whoever bought it like when they sold off the rest of it, there's like some
off the rest of it, there's like some type of a gate that's right there and it
type of a gate that's right there and it ends up going in right in their lawn.
ends up going in right in their lawn. So, but so that's what I want to know.
So, but so that's what I want to know. It's just like is there what's the fence
It's just like is there what's the fence line going to be like as far as that
line going to be like as far as that goes? And because I couldn't tell on the
goes? And because I couldn't tell on the picture where what type of housing they
picture where what type of housing they were planning on putting behind ours and
were planning on putting behind ours and I think ours is in second phase.
I think ours is in second phase. So, uh,
So, uh, what that was, but yes, I very much want
what that was, but yes, I very much want to echo the concerns here because mine
to echo the concerns here because mine is on the same exact thing as hers where
is on the same exact thing as hers where it's just back toback with that
it's just back toback with that property.
property. >> So, did any of that make sense at all?
>> So, did any of that make sense at all? >> Yeah. And I'm sure Mr. MacArthur can
>> Yeah. And I'm sure Mr. MacArthur can address a lot. So, and I do appreciate
address a lot. So, and I do appreciate the fact that the developer um wants to
the fact that the developer um wants to keep them single single family homes or
keep them single single family homes or as far as like just home ownerships and
as far as like just home ownerships and not apartments and not duplexes, etc.
not apartments and not duplexes, etc. So,
>> Good evening again. Scott MacArthur. Uh just wanted to address a couple of
just wanted to address a couple of items. Christine okay uh Christine
items. Christine okay uh Christine Lacader she mentioned that um traffic
Lacader she mentioned that um traffic right so part of the issues that we're
right so part of the issues that we're having in this area right now are that
having in this area right now are that the fact that we don't have the rights
the fact that we don't have the rights of way uh to improve the roads to city
of way uh to improve the roads to city standards. Uh this project will improve
standards. Uh this project will improve the development uh to city standards.
the development uh to city standards. But one of the issues we have is that
But one of the issues we have is that the property to the east, the section
the property to the east, the section that uh is primarily concerned, there's
that uh is primarily concerned, there's a section on and I don't know if I made
a section on and I don't know if I made my picture large enough. Um
my picture large enough. Um there's a large section that you cannot
there's a large section that you cannot see here. Sorry, that is not in the
see here. Sorry, that is not in the city. uh and the rights of way are not
city. uh and the rights of way are not wide enough to continue the improvements
wide enough to continue the improvements uh through that section of Horse Haven
uh through that section of Horse Haven to connect to Greens Ferry. Um so
to connect to Greens Ferry. Um so there's some issues over there. The
there's some issues over there. The improvements are made up to the west
improvements are made up to the west side or excuse me the east side of the
side or excuse me the east side of the R1 property that's adjacent to
R1 property that's adjacent to Greensberry. uh but there will be this
Greensberry. uh but there will be this gap until the rights of way are are
gap until the rights of way are are obtained or the property to the north is
obtained or the property to the north is developed and the rights of way are uh
developed and the rights of way are uh obtained in the the center line of the
obtained in the the center line of the alignment basically for horse and will
alignment basically for horse and will have to change to provide that street
have to change to provide that street section that's needed to provide that
section that's needed to provide that connectivity. So um right now I again I
connectivity. So um right now I again I live in the area um and I too utilize
live in the area um and I too utilize Horse Haven for access uh pedestrian
Horse Haven for access uh pedestrian access, walk my kids, walk my dogs and
access, walk my kids, walk my dogs and uh we do walk on the streets and until
uh we do walk on the streets and until we get to the improved sections. So part
we get to the improved sections. So part of that safety improvement will be our
of that safety improvement will be our improvements as much as we can do uh
improvements as much as we can do uh through our portions of the property
through our portions of the property which is pretty significant being the I
which is pretty significant being the I believe it's around 2,000 lineal feet of
believe it's around 2,000 lineal feet of frontage improvements that need to take
frontage improvements that need to take place um
place um annexation and I just ran some quick
annexation and I just ran some quick numbers uh Mr. home. Uh, regarding uh,
numbers uh Mr. home. Uh, regarding uh, you know, R1 develop, it'd be roughly
you know, R1 develop, it'd be roughly about 100 lots that you could put into
about 100 lots that you could put into this property. Uh, single family
this property. Uh, single family residential, 6,500T lots, uh, which
residential, 6,500T lots, uh, which would be pretty significant. Uh, we're
would be pretty significant. Uh, we're asking for five more, but we're giving
asking for five more, but we're giving you 70,000 ft of open space, maintained
you 70,000 ft of open space, maintained open space.
open space. uh price points. Uh right now we have
uh price points. Uh right now we have several cottage developments in the city
several cottage developments in the city and the price points are consistent with
and the price points are consistent with single family residential homes which
single family residential homes which what we're finding with those we have a
what we're finding with those we have a laundry, you know, a not a laundry list,
laundry, you know, a not a laundry list, we have a long list of people that want
we have a long list of people that want to buy cottage homes because they don't
to buy cottage homes because they don't want to maintain those large lots. Uh we
want to maintain those large lots. Uh we know I I wish I lived on a larger lot.
know I I wish I lived on a larger lot. I'd maintain it, but there are people
I'd maintain it, but there are people that want to live on those smaller lots
that want to live on those smaller lots and have that sense of community and be
and have that sense of community and be adjacent to the open space. And that's
adjacent to the open space. And that's those are the people that we're looking
those are the people that we're looking for here in this development. can't say
for here in this development. can't say that's who will buy them, but uh I do as
that's who will buy them, but uh I do as as with all of my neighbors in my R1
as with all of my neighbors in my R1 zone property, encourage them to
zone property, encourage them to maintain their properties
maintain their properties uh keep price points up. Um Mr. Wolf, I
uh keep price points up. Um Mr. Wolf, I I've never thanked him. He caught my
I've never thanked him. He caught my dogs uh when we first moved into the
dogs uh when we first moved into the neighborhood years ago. Thank you. My
neighborhood years ago. Thank you. My kids were really mad at me for opening
kids were really mad at me for opening the garage door. So, uh Mr. Wolf, your
the garage door. So, uh Mr. Wolf, your driveway will continue to access Singa
driveway will continue to access Singa and Mr. Paulus, I believe we discussed
and Mr. Paulus, I believe we discussed that Mr. Given uh who currently lives on
that Mr. Given uh who currently lives on the R1's own property, uh he and Mr.
the R1's own property, uh he and Mr. Wolf will continue to have access
Wolf will continue to have access directly to Seringa. You will not have
directly to Seringa. You will not have access to Horse Haven, but you'll have
access to Horse Haven, but you'll have access to Seringa. Um and that's uh to
access to Seringa. Um and that's uh to keep like you mentioned um not a part of
keep like you mentioned um not a part of the association, not impacting the
the association, not impacting the private road section. And u and we also
private road section. And u and we also did provide a buffer in that area as
did provide a buffer in that area as well. It's a it's a small sliver, a
well. It's a it's a small sliver, a small maintained sliver. Uh, and I know
small maintained sliver. Uh, and I know if we can get it up there, but there is
if we can get it up there, but there is a buffer between the homes. So, it's a
a buffer between the homes. So, it's a larger setback to the cottage homes uh
larger setback to the cottage homes uh in that area as compared to um those
in that area as compared to um those that are, you know, we're not building
that are, you know, we're not building right up to the property line. The the
right up to the property line. The the homes that'll be built up to your
homes that'll be built up to your southern boundary are R1 size lots,
southern boundary are R1 size lots, larger lots, and I think you can see,
larger lots, and I think you can see, you know, 7,7300
you know, 7,7300 foot lots there. those road those lots
foot lots there. those road those lots will have access to the private road but
will have access to the private road but you will contain continue to have your
you will contain continue to have your access through your existing driveway.
access through your existing driveway. Uh as stated earlier we have no
Uh as stated earlier we have no intention for any commercial use on this
intention for any commercial use on this property and if so uh if that use
property and if so uh if that use changes that we'll have to come back to
changes that we'll have to come back to the city and ask for uh a change with
the city and ask for uh a change with this request.
this request. Uh regarding drainage that's one thing I
Uh regarding drainage that's one thing I did not mention. So, previously uh
did not mention. So, previously uh there's a
there's a try to find it here a grading plan. Um
try to find it here a grading plan. Um this property is flat. We live on the
this property is flat. We live on the prairie. Uh it's very flat. And so with
prairie. Uh it's very flat. And so with all developments in the city, part of
all developments in the city, part of our process is to illustrate that
our process is to illustrate that drainage is maintained on the property.
drainage is maintained on the property. Whether that's public road improvements,
Whether that's public road improvements, private improvements, the drainage must
private improvements, the drainage must be maintained on our property on our
be maintained on our property on our project. And we have to illustrate that
project. And we have to illustrate that at the time of development. So, when the
at the time of development. So, when the subdivision plans are formally
subdivision plans are formally submitted, uh, stamped, as an engineer,
submitted, uh, stamped, as an engineer, we're stamping and saying, "Yes, we're
we're stamping and saying, "Yes, we're maintaining our drainage on our
maintaining our drainage on our property." Um, with this project and
property." Um, with this project and with all projects in the city, uh,
with all projects in the city, uh, there's no fencing requirements. We
there's no fencing requirements. We could put up no fence, there could be a
could put up no fence, there could be a block wall, there could be a fence, but
block wall, there could be a fence, but that fence isn't a requirement of the
that fence isn't a requirement of the subdivision or the development
subdivision or the development um,
um, uh, density. I know a lot of people hit
uh, density. I know a lot of people hit on that number of homes. Again, 100
on that number of homes. Again, 100 homes in the R1 zone or we're asking for
homes in the R1 zone or we're asking for 105
105 uh eight units per acre uh in this
uh eight units per acre uh in this development. I I think it's a
development. I I think it's a fairly great tradeoff and so we're
fairly great tradeoff and so we're maintaining that eight units per acre in
maintaining that eight units per acre in this development. Uh and I will stand
this development. Uh and I will stand for any additional questions,
for any additional questions, >> questions,
>> questions, >> just looking at at uh that plan right
>> just looking at at uh that plan right there. Am I reading this right? That It
there. Am I reading this right? That It almost looks like the drainage is going
almost looks like the drainage is going to the west. Just the natural drainage
to the west. Just the natural drainage would be headed west.
would be headed west. >> That's correct. And and just this is a
>> That's correct. And and just this is a conceptual grading plan illustrating how
conceptual grading plan illustrating how we see the the subdivision potentially
we see the the subdivision potentially being laid out. But at all times uh that
being laid out. But at all times uh that is the intent with development. There
is the intent with development. There there's certain circumstances where you
there's certain circumstances where you do have to grade backyards to
do have to grade backyards to accommodate that, but it's uh in this
accommodate that, but it's uh in this particular you you are very correct. So
particular you you are very correct. So thank you. Well, that that is a a good
thank you. Well, that that is a a good issue that Christy and Angie brought up
issue that Christy and Angie brought up because over there on Prada
because over there on Prada uh I know some people over there that
uh I know some people over there that they can't get rid of their water.
they can't get rid of their water. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So, I don't know what we can say about
>> So, I don't know what we can say about it. That's engineer stuff. Um but
it. That's engineer stuff. Um but >> you didn't point at me. You pointed
>> you didn't point at me. You pointed somewhere else. I'm just
somewhere else. I'm just >> Are you an engineer?
>> Are you an engineer? >> I just want to make sure it was Rob.
>> I just want to make sure it was Rob. >> He tells me he is.
>> He tells me he is. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. But anyway, that's that is a big issue
But anyway, that's that is a big issue that what they brought up because you
that what they brought up because you know standing water is no good. So,
know standing water is no good. So, >> correct. Right. And we do live on a
>> correct. Right. And we do live on a uh soils that are have high infiltration
uh soils that are have high infiltration rates in our area and so we even slow
rates in our area and so we even slow them down with our storm water soils by
them down with our storm water soils by the introduction of organic top soil.
the introduction of organic top soil. The problem is when that top soil is
The problem is when that top soil is compacted or the materials are over
compacted or the materials are over compacted uh and need to be scarified.
compacted uh and need to be scarified. And so that's a lot of times what it is
And so that's a lot of times what it is is just getting to a depth of scarifying
is just getting to a depth of scarifying it to a depth that allows that
it to a depth that allows that infiltration.
infiltration. >> Yes sir.
>> Yes sir. >> Um so I did some math and the number of
>> Um so I did some math and the number of lots you have divided by the acreage is
lots you have divided by the acreage is 5.83 units per acre.
5.83 units per acre. >> I yeah I believe I was looking back
>> I yeah I believe I was looking back through my notes for some reason the
through my notes for some reason the math
math >> math
>> math >> we'll be under eight units per acre.
>> we'll be under eight units per acre. >> And so I yeah I busted out the
>> And so I yeah I busted out the calculator for a second. Um so 6.0 0 is
calculator for a second. Um so 6.0 0 is fine on the
fine on the >> I'd like to keep it at under eight, but
>> I'd like to keep it at under eight, but I don't I don't foresee us getting
I don't I don't foresee us getting >> I I I check that after as well. I was
>> I I I check that after as well. I was trying to maintain it at eight just in
trying to maintain it at eight just in the event that Mr. Given home does turn
the event that Mr. Given home does turn into uh another unit there as well. Uh I
into uh another unit there as well. Uh I don't again this is conceptual
don't again this is conceptual subdivision plan. We're looking at a a
subdivision plan. We're looking at a a max density. I don't want to try to
max density. I don't want to try to limit that density. I want to be
limit that density. I want to be consistent with the comp plan.
consistent with the comp plan. >> That makes sense.
>> That makes sense. >> Thank you. But thank you. Yes. I after I
>> Thank you. But thank you. Yes. I after I sat down, I looked at that as well.
sat down, I looked at that as well. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. >> Mr. Wilhelm. He's an engineer.
>> Mr. Wilhelm. He's an engineer. >> Who is? Just kid.
>> All right. I understand most of what he says.
says. >> Yes, you do.
>> Yes, you do. >> All right. Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you so much.
>> Thank you so much. >> Close out the hearing.
>> All right, commissioners. Because we have a couple different ways of
have a couple different ways of approaching it. We have a a subdivision
approaching it. We have a a subdivision and we have the annexation
and we have the annexation uh zoning request and a zone change.
uh zoning request and a zone change. I the subdivision approval would be
I the subdivision approval would be conditioned on the zone changes for the
conditioned on the zone changes for the two two properties zone change and the
two two properties zone change and the zoning recommendation of council. So uh
zoning recommendation of council. So uh why don't we go through the annexation
why don't we go through the annexation and zone change criteria first. Take
and zone change criteria first. Take both lots at once since they are
both lots at once since they are presented in the same way. There is no
presented in the same way. There is no difference in the in the manner. you're
difference in the in the manner. you're not going to it's unlikely you're going
not going to it's unlikely you're going to zone one not the same as the other.
to zone one not the same as the other. So that would be my recommendation.
So that would be my recommendation. Um
Um before you tonight is a requested zone
before you tonight is a requested zone of residential mixed uh for annexation
of residential mixed uh for annexation 25-2 and zone change 25-1.
25-2 and zone change 25-1. Uh and we'll go through the criteria. Uh
Uh and we'll go through the criteria. Uh number one is the proposed zoning
number one is the proposed zoning district consistent with the future land
district consistent with the future land use map and focus area contained in the
use map and focus area contained in the currently adopted postfalls
currently adopted postfalls comprehensive plan
but I'll speak at once. Um yeah so let's see here
see here I forget the u actual comp plan
I forget the u actual comp plan designation for this. Is it transitional
designation for this. Is it transitional or is it I think it's a low density
or is it I think it's a low density residential.
residential. >> Okay. So, low density residential
>> Okay. So, low density residential and RM residential mix zone is an
and RM residential mix zone is an implementing zone uh for that
implementing zone uh for that designation.
designation. Uh understanding that there is a density
Uh understanding that there is a density cap in the comprehensive plan for low
cap in the comprehensive plan for low density residential of eight dwelling
density residential of eight dwelling units per acre.
units per acre. So if it if it is zoned RM is there a
So if it if it is zoned RM is there a cap
cap >> we can so RM comes with a development
>> we can so RM comes with a development agreement a zoning development agreement
agreement a zoning development agreement attached to it where that's those are
attached to it where that's those are the things that we add into or can add
the things that we add into or can add into
into >> okay
>> okay >> uh those development agreements
>> uh those development agreements >> in our recommendation recommend or that
>> in our recommendation recommend or that that recommendation which would be
that recommendation which would be things like eight dwelling units per
things like eight dwelling units per acre cap, no multifamily, no commercial
acre cap, no multifamily, no commercial or and single family detached housing or
or and single family detached housing or something like that.
something like that. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> And limited to single family detached.
>> And limited to single family detached. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> We have a focus area here of central uh
>> We have a focus area here of central uh the central focus area. I don't know if
the central focus area. I don't know if there was any discussion or anyone want
there was any discussion or anyone want to address any of the points on that one
to address any of the points on that one >> that that talk that speaks to infill
>> that that talk that speaks to infill develop. It's a central or the central
develop. It's a central or the central island, right? central island and
island, right? central island and >> which speaks to infill development being
>> which speaks to infill development being a a priority uh for the city um and
a a priority uh for the city um and infill annexations. And to be honest,
infill annexations. And to be honest, the this is really a a good example of
the this is really a a good example of um
um how those old 1970s60s7s
how those old 1970s60s7s subdivisions where they're you know the
subdivisions where they're you know the halfacre lots um on the adjoining
halfacre lots um on the adjoining property. This is a good is an example
property. This is a good is an example of why those may never come into the
of why those may never come into the city. Um because
city. Um because they just they won't probably annex. But
they just they won't probably annex. But when these when these properties do come
when these when these properties do come up for sale and when they do come to
up for sale and when they do come to develop,
develop, um it's good to get them into the city
um it's good to get them into the city so that stuff like that doesn't happen
so that stuff like that doesn't happen and they never redevelop. Um if they
and they never redevelop. Um if they develop in the county is something it's
develop in the county is something it's really hard to get them into the city
really hard to get them into the city later. Mhm.
later. Mhm. >> So, and that goes to expanding
>> So, and that goes to expanding infrastructure, right? Because that
infrastructure, right? Because that adjoining subdivision, there's no right
adjoining subdivision, there's no right of way and there's no funding mechanism
of way and there's no funding mechanism to build the sidewalks across that. And
to build the sidewalks across that. And so, even though it's essentially going
so, even though it's essentially going to be eventually it's it's surrounded by
to be eventually it's it's surrounded by urban area, um but the funding
urban area, um but the funding mechanisms for having pedestrian
mechanisms for having pedestrian connectivity across there are few and
connectivity across there are few and far in between.
far in between. Thank you. Uh number two, and then this
Thank you. Uh number two, and then this this ties into the your comments tie
this ties into the your comments tie into the goals and policies consistency
into the goals and policies consistency with the uh postfall's comprehensive
with the uh postfall's comprehensive plan. Uh so speaking a little bit more
plan. Uh so speaking a little bit more on that one, we talked about a little
on that one, we talked about a little bit of transportation and the
bit of transportation and the infrastructure improvements are always a
infrastructure improvements are always a big one. Um, goal six, transportation
big one. Um, goal six, transportation improvements, especially on that corner,
improvements, especially on that corner, even though it's offsite. It's that's a
even though it's offsite. It's that's a really big one, getting that
really big one, getting that intersection of Horse Haven and Seringa
intersection of Horse Haven and Seringa um, built out. Uh, pedestrian
um, built out. Uh, pedestrian connectivity policies 67 speaks to that.
connectivity policies 67 speaks to that. I
I >> think it policies eight and nine talk
>> think it policies eight and nine talk about the infill and theation
about the infill and theation of the uh, the county pockets in there,
of the uh, the county pockets in there, but then that kind of just ties in to
but then that kind of just ties in to the frontage improvements, the
the frontage improvements, the connectability of the infrastructure.
connectability of the infrastructure. provide already talked about. Yeah.
provide already talked about. Yeah. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Uh uh and number three on the zoning
Uh uh and number three on the zoning recommendation and zone change criteria.
recommendation and zone change criteria. Does the proposed district being RM
Does the proposed district being RM create a demonstrable adverse impact
create a demonstrable adverse impact upon the delivery of services by any
upon the delivery of services by any political subdivision providing service
political subdivision providing service in the city?
in the city? >> Nothing's been identified in the staff
>> Nothing's been identified in the staff report.
report. >> Nope. And I don't believe there's any
>> Nope. And I don't believe there's any other testimony on the adverse impacts
other testimony on the adverse impacts on those services. So,
on those services. So, uh, those deliberations are done.
uh, those deliberations are done. Would you prefer to move on to the
Would you prefer to move on to the subdivision criteria and then address
subdivision criteria and then address everything at the same time or do you
everything at the same time or do you want to
want to >> deliberate on the annexation and zoning
>> deliberate on the annexation and zoning recommendation?
recommendation? >> Let's do this.
>> Let's do this. >> Let's do this one and get it.
>> Let's do this one and get it. >> Yeah, let's just take care of this one
>> Yeah, let's just take care of this one now. thinking.
now. thinking. >> Yeah, I'll I'll fire up a motion here
>> Yeah, I'll I'll fire up a motion here really quick.
really quick. >> I have something written down already.
>> I have something written down already. Probably
Probably >> not really, but I have a sample motion
>> not really, but I have a sample motion that I can use.
that I can use. So I move to recommend approval of
file the G2 development annexation and zone change file numbers ANNX25-2
zone change file numbers ANNX25-2 and ZC25-1
finding that the requesting zone of RM meets the approval criteria in Postf
meets the approval criteria in Postf Falls Municipal Code 18.20.10 1000 as
Falls Municipal Code 18.20.10 1000 as outlined in our deliberations and direct
outlined in our deliberations and direct staff to prepare a zoning recommendation
staff to prepare a zoning recommendation to be provided to city council. Um and a
to be provided to city council. Um and a recommendation to include a cap on the
recommendation to include a cap on the dwelling units per or the density to
dwelling units per or the density to eight dwelling units per acre and for
eight dwelling units per acre and for there to be no commercial or multifamily
there to be no commercial or multifamily uh development included in that zoning
uh development included in that zoning development agreement.
development agreement. >> Okay, I have a motion. What about u
>> Okay, I have a motion. What about u improvements along Horse Haven that are
improvements along Horse Haven that are not the frontage of this property?
not the frontage of this property? >> I think that's already included in the
>> I think that's already included in the prior annexation agreement. So, it goes
prior annexation agreement. So, it goes with the land.
with the land. >> Okay.
>> I think that's correct. >> And I would make a I would second your
>> And I would make a I would second your existing motion. All right. I have a
existing motion. All right. I have a motion and a second. We have a roll
motion and a second. We have a roll call, please.
call, please. >> Gary,
>> Gary, >> yes. Kimble,
>> yes. Kimble, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Stephenson,
>> Stephenson, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Wilham,
>> Wilham, >> yes. Shriber.
>> yes. Shriber. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh secondly, the subdivision uh application
secondly, the subdivision uh application for subdivision 25-2
for subdivision 25-2 18.02 acres combined in the residential
18.02 acres combined in the residential mixed zone. This uh motion andor
mixed zone. This uh motion andor approval would be contingent upon the
approval would be contingent upon the reszone and zoning, I'm sorry,
reszone and zoning, I'm sorry, annexation approval on council uh into
annexation approval on council uh into 105 residential lots. Number one, water
105 residential lots. Number one, water uh system that is adequate
uh system that is adequate unless there's a debate on that one.
unless there's a debate on that one. Ross Point Water District has done a
Ross Point Water District has done a will well will serve letter.
will well will serve letter. >> Yeah, agreed.
>> Yeah, agreed. >> Seeing a nod. Uh number two, adequate uh
>> Seeing a nod. Uh number two, adequate uh provisions have been made for public
provisions have been made for public sewage system that can can accommodate
sewage system that can can accommodate these sewage flows and again the city of
these sewage flows and again the city of Post Falls has uh indicated service
Post Falls has uh indicated service would be available.
would be available. >> Yep. sewers available and they have a
>> Yep. sewers available and they have a plan for it within their subdivision.
plan for it within their subdivision. >> Number three, uh proposed streets are
>> Number three, uh proposed streets are consistent with the transportation
consistent with the transportation element of the comprehensive plan.
element of the comprehensive plan. >> Yeah, they're they're widening Singinga
>> Yeah, they're they're widening Singinga and Horse Haven in conformance with the
and Horse Haven in conformance with the transportation master plan. And they're
transportation master plan. And they're not only that, but they're also
not only that, but they're also providing connectivity to adjoining
providing connectivity to adjoining properties um as best they can to the
properties um as best they can to the south um to provide for good
south um to provide for good connectivity um and future road
connectivity um and future road networks.
And on the proposed streets, uh, you had suggested that, um, including a
suggested that, um, including a condition for the future private roadway
condition for the future private roadway to be a sinking fund in the HOA, um,
to be a sinking fund in the HOA, um, also addresses the consistency and the
also addresses the consistency and the impact on this future city services or
impact on this future city services or if they were to try to unprivatize those
if they were to try to unprivatize those streets in the future.
streets in the future. >> Correct.
>> Correct. >> I'm just pointing that out. See, see if
>> I'm just pointing that out. See, see if I'm getting a nod there. Yeah, I think
I'm getting a nod there. Yeah, I think the goal is to hope hopefully they won't
the goal is to hope hopefully they won't have to that they're as you know solvent
have to that they're as you know solvent that that's the goal to set them up for
that that's the goal to set them up for success, right?
success, right? >> Yes, sir.
>> Yes, sir. >> Not just kick the can.
>> Not just kick the can. >> Well, and on that note, I would say it's
>> Well, and on that note, I would say it's it's not just the private streets. It's
it's not just the private streets. It's any common area.
any common area. >> It really is. I mean, if I'm not
>> It really is. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, the Fieldstone HOA struggles
mistaken, the Fieldstone HOA struggles with maintaining and funding their
with maintaining and funding their >> open their acres and acres of or at
>> open their acres and acres of or at least in the past they did. It's getting
least in the past they did. It's getting better.
better. >> That's, you know, that's a 900 and some
>> That's, you know, that's a 900 and some units. So,
units. So, >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Uh, number four. All areas of the proposed subdivision involving soil or
proposed subdivision involving soil or topographical conditions presenting
topographical conditions presenting hazards have been identified
hazards have been identified >> that were not identified.
>> that were not identified. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Well, the one concern about drainage, I
>> Well, the one concern about drainage, I would consider that a topographic
would consider that a topographic concern, but that's been addressed and
concern, but that's been addressed and will be addressed,
will be addressed, >> right? Yeah.
>> right? Yeah. >> Through the grading.
>> Through the grading. >> The developer is aware. Yep.
Uh, number five, the area proposed for the subdivision is zoned or will be
the subdivision is zoned or will be zoned for the proposed use and the use
zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms to other requirements found in
conforms to other requirements found in the code.
the code. >> I think the the big thing that comes up
>> I think the the big thing that comes up for me on this particular one is
for me on this particular one is if if it was an R1 zone, which is our
if if it was an R1 zone, which is our lowest density single family residential
lowest density single family residential zone. I think it's our lowest density in
zone. I think it's our lowest density in the city. And that's what our
the city. And that's what our comprehensive plan leans towards.
comprehensive plan leans towards. The the difference in the unit count for
The the difference in the unit count for this particular project is numb overall.
this particular project is numb overall. >> So I don't see this being a stretch.
>> Yeah. And there's certain benefits to going with RM.
going with RM. >> It it gets us more of the variety in
>> It it gets us more of the variety in housing,
housing, >> uh more price points. Um and I don't
>> uh more price points. Um and I don't think that's a bad thing. Agreed.
think that's a bad thing. Agreed. >> Yeah, I think it's
>> Yeah, I think it's >> okay. Thank you. Uh and finally, uh
>> okay. Thank you. Uh and finally, uh number six, adequate plans to ensure the
number six, adequate plans to ensure the community will bear no more than its
community will bear no more than its fair share of costs
fair share of costs by paying fees or otherwise
by paying fees or otherwise >> impact fees and street improvements.
>> impact fees and street improvements. >> It's kind of interesting if you really
>> It's kind of interesting if you really look at the construction cost on a
look at the construction cost on a project like this
project like this that and we always talk about density.
that and we always talk about density. higher density somehow equals
higher density somehow equals affordable. It's not necessarily true,
affordable. It's not necessarily true, especially when you take a look at
especially when you take a look at impact fees and all these
impact fees and all these all the off-site costs, road
all the off-site costs, road improvements and so forth and so on,
improvements and so forth and so on, that adds up to more than the land.
that adds up to more than the land. So, this development is and most
So, this development is and most developments we have coming into the
developments we have coming into the city are actually paying way more than
city are actually paying way more than their share or at least mitigating their
their share or at least mitigating their share of any of these costs. I mean, the
share of any of these costs. I mean, the reality is that especially corner lots
reality is that especially corner lots and corner developments where there's
and corner developments where there's two frontages, they're
two frontages, they're that the city gets a lot of bang for the
that the city gets a lot of bang for the buck when it comes to those. And when I
buck when it comes to those. And when I mean the city, I mean the public,
mean the city, I mean the public, >> right?
>> right? >> Because it's it's really the the future.
>> Because it's it's really the the future. It's planning for the future. Um, and as
It's planning for the future. Um, and as you see them slowly chew away at these
you see them slowly chew away at these infill developments, the infrastructure
infill developments, the infrastructure happens and and you know, standards
happens and and you know, standards change and there's little jogs here and
change and there's little jogs here and there and the sidewalk and the curb and
there and the sidewalk and the curb and whatnot. But the reality is that at the
whatnot. But the reality is that at the end of the day, there's a there's a huge
end of the day, there's a there's a huge benefit to the city transportation
benefit to the city transportation network and really the regional
network and really the regional transportation network that comes with
transportation network that comes with these annexations and these
these annexations and these subdivisions. um building the frontage
subdivisions. um building the frontage improvements.
>> All righty. >> All right. Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you. >> I'd like to make a motion.
>> I'd like to make a motion. >> I would
There we go. And John, you had a a condition of
And John, you had a a condition of approval modification for number four, I
approval modification for number four, I believe it was, that we spoke about.
believe it was, that we spoke about. >> Yeah, it alluded to the fact that you
>> Yeah, it alluded to the fact that you would have um prior to phase three
would have um prior to phase three completed the open space and the
completed the open space and the frontage improvements would either be
frontage improvements would either be completed or bonded for.
completed or bonded for. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> But the way it reads now is proposed
>> But the way it reads now is proposed subdivision must be completed in two
subdivision must be completed in two phases,
phases, >> right? So,
>> right? So, >> so we would modify that condition.
>> so we would modify that condition. >> So, okay. My motion will modify that
>> So, okay. My motion will modify that condition to what you just said
condition to what you just said >> because I'm not going to repeat it.
>> because I'm not going to repeat it. >> Um, but it's on the record.
>> Um, but it's on the record. >> No more than three phases.
>> No more than three phases. >> Yeah. No more than three phases and
>> Yeah. No more than three phases and >> all common area improvements to be done
>> all common area improvements to be done before three phase three.
before three phase three. >> FA
>> FA prior to the com. Yeah. prior to the
prior to the com. Yeah. prior to the completion of phase three or prior to
completion of phase three or prior to >> commencing
>> commencing >> commencing phase three
>> commencing phase three and all frontage improvements shall be
and all frontage improvements shall be either constructed or bonded for prior
either constructed or bonded for prior to phase three.
to phase three. >> Did you say open space?
>> Did you say open space? >> Frontage improvements.
>> Frontage improvements. >> Yeah, we'd want the open space completed
>> Yeah, we'd want the open space completed too.
too. >> Oh, I said completed and and then that
>> Oh, I said completed and and then that to be completed the frontage improvement
to be completed the frontage improvement to be either completed or bonded.
to be either completed or bonded. >> Okay, cool. Thanks. Sorry. Okay. So, I
>> Okay, cool. Thanks. Sorry. Okay. So, I move to a approve
move to a approve the G2
the G2 subdivision
subdivision finding that it meets approval criteria
finding that it meets approval criteria in Post Falls municipal code 17.12.060H
in Post Falls municipal code 17.12.060H 060H as outlined in our deliberations
060H as outlined in our deliberations subjects to conditions
subjects to conditions 1 through 14 with number four as
1 through 14 with number four as modified previously stated adding a
modified previously stated adding a condition of approval.
condition of approval. um requiring the developer to put into
um requiring the developer to put into the CCRs a mechanism
the CCRs a mechanism for a sinking fund to provide for the
for a sinking fund to provide for the eventual resurfacing
eventual resurfacing uh and maintenance of the private road
uh and maintenance of the private road infrastructure.
infrastructure. uh ensuring that there is adequate
uh ensuring that there is adequate funding
funding um mechanisms in place for future
um mechanisms in place for future maintenance
maintenance and direct staff to prepare a written
and direct staff to prepare a written reason decision to that effect.
reason decision to that effect. Could you change that wording on your
Could you change that wording on your last one to say something along the
last one to say something along the lines of uh CCNRs to include a funding
lines of uh CCNRs to include a funding mechanism for maintenance and capital
mechanism for maintenance and capital replacement of common
replacement of common common areas, common amenities, common
common areas, common amenities, common features. It's just
features. It's just >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> So it's not just the private road,
>> So it's not just the private road, >> not just private road, but all those
>> not just private road, but all those things. Yes,
things. Yes, >> that makes sense.
>> that makes sense. So noted.
So noted. >> So amended
>> So amended >> and conditioned on annexation approval.
>> and conditioned on annexation approval. >> And conditioned upon annexation
>> And conditioned upon annexation approval. I thought that that was one of
approval. I thought that that was one of them.
them. >> Oh, it is.
>> Oh, it is. >> I thought so.
>> I thought so. >> I can't read anymore.
>> I can't read anymore. >> So based on that, I would second that
>> So based on that, I would second that motion.
motion. >> Yeah. I'm sorry.
>> One. >> No, you're right. Was not one. So thank
>> No, you're right. Was not one. So thank you.
you. >> No, I think it's number one.
>> No, I think it's number one. >> I thought it was number one.
>> I thought it was number one. >> Yeah, it is. All right. There it is.
>> Yeah, it is. All right. There it is. Yeah, that's number one.
Yeah, that's number one. >> All right.
>> All right. >> All right.
>> All right. >> It's getting late, but we're not that
>> It's getting late, but we're not that late.
late. >> Adding number one again.
>> Adding number one again. >> Motion on the floor.
>> Motion on the floor. >> Second.
>> Second. >> And we have a second. Roll call, please.
>> And we have a second. Roll call, please. >> Shriber,
>> Shriber, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Wilham,
>> Wilham, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Stephenson,
>> Stephenson, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Kimble,
>> Kimble, >> yes.
>> yes. >> Gary,
>> Gary, >> yes.
>> Next item on the agenda, administrative or staff reports. Um there's none.
or staff reports. Um there's none. >> Commissioner comments.
>> Commissioner comments. >> How did uh postfall's days go uh in
>> How did uh postfall's days go uh in terms of soliciting feedback for
terms of soliciting feedback for comprehensive plan?
comprehensive plan? >> Um postfalls days actually I thought it
>> Um postfalls days actually I thought it went pretty good. We had a pretty good
went pretty good. We had a pretty good interaction both uh Friday evening and
interaction both uh Friday evening and Saturday. It stayed pretty busy.
Saturday. It stayed pretty busy. >> Good. you know, we had, you know, about
>> Good. you know, we had, you know, about I think 378
I think 378 people do trying to get the penny pole.
people do trying to get the penny pole. >> Oh, cool.
>> Oh, cool. >> And then we had I think close I mean a
>> And then we had I think close I mean a pretty good showing on the mini poll and
pretty good showing on the mini poll and then we were able to get a word out on
then we were able to get a word out on the we have a a 30 question survey
the we have a a 30 question survey that's currently we're taking out till
that's currently we're taking out till August 11th. So we I we was able to get
August 11th. So we I we was able to get some cards out for that. We have about I
some cards out for that. We have about I thinkundred and
thinkundred and 50ish, I believe,
50ish, I believe, >> of responses in that plus or minus a
>> of responses in that plus or minus a little bit. Um, then in addition to
little bit. Um, then in addition to that, I did go to the market on the last
that, I did go to the market on the last two Wednesdays on those music. Still
two Wednesdays on those music. Still handing out little coasters for giving
handing out little coasters for giving people information to fill out the
people information to fill out the surveys. So, hopefully we'll get that
surveys. So, hopefully we'll get that info. But so far, it seems like it's
info. But so far, it seems like it's going pretty good. We're getting a
going pretty good. We're getting a pretty good idea of stuff. And then on
pretty good idea of stuff. And then on our website, we actually gave uh if you
our website, we actually gave uh if you go to the comp plan, there's a brief
go to the comp plan, there's a brief overview of the results of both the
overview of the results of both the penny pole and the mini pole. So you
penny pole and the mini pole. So you could go review that if you want to.
could go review that if you want to. >> Excellent. Thank you.
>> Excellent. Thank you. >> Very cool.
>> Very cool. Any other comments?
Any other comments? >> It's nice to be on this side of the
>> It's nice to be on this side of the podium now.
podium now. >> All right. Next motion is adjournment.
>> All right. Next motion is adjournment. All in favor? I
All in favor? I >> I
>> I adjourned.
