This content is a discussion among enthusiasts about the "Thrill of the Chase" (TTOC) treasure hunt, focusing on insights gained from the finder, Jack, and exploring various theories and aspects of the hunt, including the nature of clues, the location, and the finder's experience.
Mind Map
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[Laughter]
Oh, there we are.
See, you found the thingamajigger. Congratulations.
Congratulations.
I did find it.
All right, everyone. Welcome to Amy
Seeks, where we discuss all things aha
moment, including games, puzzles, and a
strong e emphasis uh oh armchair
treasure hunts. And tonight, we're
talking about Jack Stoof, the finder of
the Forest Fen treasure hunt. And let's
see if we're actually live. Oh, look at
that. There we are. I see us.
You nailed it.
Nailed it.
Let us know how audio is, everyone, and
we'll try and adjust it on the fly. Um,
let's see here. And don't forget to
thumbs up or thumbs down and click
subscribe. And this episode is being
brought to you by Tubthumpers. That's Tubthumpers
Tubthumpers
with the Great US Treasure Hunt. Thank
you very much, Tub Thumpers.
All right, guys. Well, tonight we've got
obviously we're discussing all the
emails. I've got uh five questions that
were answered by Jack that I'll be
sharing with you guys tonight. And um
yeah, I guess we go from there.
Okay. Oh, I'm getting texts, too. All
right, guys. Um so, Jack Stef has been
emailing everybody. I don't know anyone
he's turned down. I mean, he's he's like
the, you know, and his responses are so
Forest Fenike. It's been kind of crazy.
So, and he's Now, Cynthia, you haven't
tried to email him yet, have you?
Oh, I did. Yes,
you did. Okay. And
but I did not ask him any questions.
Oh, you were just being nice and not not
like us.
Yeah, sort of. Yes.
Good to know. All right, we've got Oh,
hey, Alan K. Low key big Baldi and
Wrongway Corgan. How's it going, guys?
And what's this? Okay, free.
I have no idea what that text was. So,
all right. Should we jump into like
honestly I have not actually looked at
or analyzed the responses from that I
had gotten yet. Should we like jump
right in? Sure.
Sure. Okay.
Okay.
Unless Unless Justin wants to tell jokes.
jokes.
Tell us your joke, Justin. Just
because it's a good one.
That's a one too many sidecar drinks
later. Uh I mean, this joke probably
exists. It was just something that I
felt I don't know, special that I made
up, but probably already exists.
We liked it. We liked it.
Okay. Oh, wow. I can't even believe I'm
going to tell this joke. I mean, it's a
pun. Um
Okay. Uh well uh what do you call a uh a
sloth having sex?
I don't know what what
what
it's uh it's a slow poke.
Did anyone unsubscribe after that?
Did the numbers go down?
Oh my god. I'm down to six. Oh no. 500.
Oh 400 subscribers.
It's dropping by the second. And Justin,
your audio is a little low.
I don't know if you if you can bring
that up a bit. At least it is for me.
Let me know in the chat room. Hey, Tom
Walker is in the room.
Hey, Tom.
Watch out for those low hanging sheep
balls, Tom. Tom,
just saying. Just saying.
Who else do we have? We've got Lucky
Digger, Brian Gates, Gregor. Oh, we have
tons of people. Hi, guys. Welcome.
Oh, so many people. Hello, everybody.
All right, let's jump in. Here we So,
I'm going to go ahead and share screen.
Here we go.
Okay. The first question, will you let
us know the fate of the chest once you
have determined it perhaps through
medium or will we need to keep our ears
to the ground listening for any news?
And he simply answered yes. So, I'm
assuming that as soon as he knows, he's
going to go ahead and let us know so
that we don't have to keep, you know,
being like, have you sold it yet? What's
going on? What's going on? What's right?
So we can let him go. All right. So the
next up and hopefully you guys can see
this. Okay.
Question number two. You have kindly
ruled out a few things like GPS that
will not help a sinker solve TTOC.
Can you bring to light what else is not
helpful or involved? Perhaps things you
saw other seekers use that were not
required or helpful. His answer is A2.
Straightforward with no subdurfuge in
sight. dang it is very important to
remember and probably rules out a
majority of solves. The poem is written
from his perspective just like any of
his other poems. And he's not trying to
trick anyone or create the world's
greatest puzzle or be clever. It's
befitting the man. And you do have to
study him, I think, to definitively
figure it out.
Seems reasonable.
But Forest was always such a fan of the
clever thing, you know? He just loved
that. I just
Yeah, Forest was such a wordssmith. So,
um, well, I guess we should believe Jack
since he's the guy with the chest. And
uh you know, one of the most important
things or the thing that's going to be
the most difficult for me is to get rid
of any confirmation bias.
Was such a wordsmith. So
yeah. Um
Oh, sorry. Hold on.
Why am I hearing that? That's probably me.
me.
Let me check.
You know, one of the most important
things or the thing that's going to be
the most difficult for me is I can't
I don't have anything else on. Okay.
Okay.
Why am I
hold on a second everyone?
I'll try and locate the most important things.
things.
Huh? I don't see it anywhere, but I know
it's there.
Let me unhook my headphones. Okay. Okay.
Okay.
What if it's
I don't have anything else on
If you just muted right quick, you'd be
able to know whether or not it's you.
I'll try. I suspect it's Amy because she
doesn't have headphones on. So, yeah.
Oh, I've got earbuds.
Oh, okay.
But my headphones.
I wish I could find it somewhere.
Are you guys getting an echo in the chat
room? Let us know.
Can you hear me now without being
plugged into the headphones? I've still
got the
Well, my headphones aren't hooked up
anymore. So, now it's using my computer audio.
audio.
All right, let us know in chat if you
guys are getting the same echo that we
are cuz we're hearing ourselves and it's crazy.
crazy.
Cynthia, do you have the YouTube channel
up right now?
Uh, no, I don't.
Yay. Did we fix it?
I fixed it. I totally fixed it. That was
all me.
It didn't just
I was like, "Wow, that's pretty impressive."
impressive."
I love technology so much. Oh jeez.
Really? It just magically stopped.
Yeah. How about that?
Woohoo. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, okay.
So, should we move on to the next one?
Are we ready? Sure.
Sure.
Okay. Yeah.
All right. And I will
Here we go. Share screen again. Next question.
See if I can find it. Hold on.
Is there still music playing?
Uh, that's from me. Is it too loud?
No, not no. I just thought I was hearing things.
things. Okay,
I'm gonna hire an IT guy. Same guy from Blackbeard.
Blackbeard.
Oh my god, I went there. Oh my god.
Well, I'm going to hell. Maybe I'll just drive.
drive.
Okay. All right. Here we go.
Oh, and I see very important. Hi, Amy.
Hi. Very important. You're very
important VIP. Okay. Next question.
What was that process like of finding
the chest, contacting Forest to retrieve
it, and then going back for it, and
heading for Santa Fe? We're assuming
that you left the chest to go ask for
permission due to the instructions found
in the chest. And how difficult was it
to leave the chest after finding it to
get permission? Jack responds, "Not
difficult at all." But I understand why
that surprises some people. It was
sitting in just about the safest place
in the world for it. Nobody had found it
in those years there. I stood I had
stood within six feet of it early in the
search season in 2019 without finding
it. So, I doubted anyone else would find
it after I left it there just like it
had been.
Wow.
What do you guys think about that one?
I could envision that. I mean, you know,
it's it's a very small item all things
considered. I could completely imagine
standing six feet away and not being
able to see it. Yeah.
But what about the time? So, does that
mean so now I'm confused regarding the
blaze though? So, back back when Forest
was answering questions on Jenny's site
and other stuff, someone Hey Matt,
someone um said about the blaze and he
said it's not likely you would get
within 12 feet of it and not find it.
So, maybe that just means that Jack,
well, you know, the blaze supposedly was
damaged. I mean, we don't really know
the story of behind the blaze and what
Jack has talked about the blaze. I
always thought that if you were a
searcher looking for the treasure chest
and not just some random hunter or
whatever walking by that if you were
really looking for it and you found the
blaze that you'd be able to find it. But
um H that's that's interesting.
Want me to share the screen again so you
guys can talk about it?
Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. And so Matt can see it, too.
Well, you you guys jumped right in. I
thought I was going to miss all the
small talk and I would jump in and we
would we would go, but uh All right, I'm
catching up.
We don't mess around here. Where are you
in question three? What?
It's incredible to think that he was six
feet away of it early on in the search and
and
didn't know it was there.
That combined with I saw an answer
somewhere else where he had said that
it's totally reasonable as I understood
it that folks had been within a couple
hundred feet of the of the chest without
knowing it's it was there. I mean that
uh it it just it bothers me. I just hope
I wasn't that person.
So, does that mean that does that mean
that the last seven clues then are so
ambiguous or so
abstract to understanding what they are that
that
Wow. Okay, Justin, this might take us
longer than we thought.
Well, I I
what I was telling you earlier
uh today, Amy, um
this idea, he says he stood within six
feet of it early in the search uh season
in 2019.
So, he remembers being there and then he
he kind of moved on.
He m either the next day, the rest of
the week, the next time he came back, he
just remembers that one time when he was
there. Like he he was still just sort of
working this
whatever football fields sized area or
something. That's that's what I have in
my mind. I have a a sizable area.
Yeah. and uh he remembers being over
there and he was close, but then he
moved on,
you know, and and so that that to me
that raises a lot of questions like
you're talking about Cynthia, like what
about all these other clues? And how
could he be six feet away? What wouldn't
the blaze the real blaze be right there?
Isn't that what we all assume? It's
right over it.
Guess I imagined the blaze potentially
being at a distance and it's just sort
of a reference point. Like let's say
you're down in a canyon and you look up
to the top of the canyon and there's
something formidable there that is kind
of your reference point and you look
down from there and that kind of gives
you the, you know, the the slice of the
canyon to look in, if you will. But what
do I know?
The potential that the blaze is up high
when you're at the place and somehow you
zero in on it and then look straight down.
down.
Yeah. I mean that that might be an
interesting question to pose to Jack
though was, you know, just generally
speaking, how large was the area that he
was focusing on? I mean, are we talking
football field sized? Are we talking,
you know, something considerably
smaller? I I'd love to know.
Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah.
How large was the area?
I mean,
well, so Justin, maybe that first time
Jack was at the nook, he never looked on
the other side of those trees with the notches.
Well, that that's interesting. What it
what the safest place in the world?
You know, we've all we've all spent a
lot of time in the mountains. We know
that we're we're not dealing with a an
unlimited number of possibilities. I mean,
mean, sure.
sure.
You know, I What What's the safest place
in the world? What does that look like?
Safe from safe from eyes. Safe from eyes
that are looking for it.
Oh, that's that's a good point. I mean,
I guess when I was thinking safe, I was
thinking more like
the ability for some sort of natural,
you know, force to cause damage to it.
So, you know, say that it was in a, you
know, a large open field on a plateau,
like that seems fairly safe. You're not
going to have a flooding concern. Uh, if
it's in the middle of the plateau,
you're not going to worry so much about
erosion or or landslides or anything to
that effect. And if there's not a lot of
trees around, fire damage is less
concerning. I I don't know. I mean, I'm
really curious to know what he means by that.
that.
Alan K brings up a great point. Um, and
I see all the Amy Seeks as well. Um, you
have to knowingly go within a few steps,
quote unquote. Um, the that info makes
it sound like it was a very public
place. Um, all the clues with the within
Wyoming. So, why is that that I must go?
Why? Um, Davio, hey Davio, I hopefully
you saw my comment on your video. Um,
Davio says, I sound less abstract. And
then Jack had discovered the correct
home of Brown. And um Alan K says the
fake blaze was 1,000 ft away. That's
three plus football fields, right?
right?
Yeah. I I thought about that when we
were I don't know why I said football
field, but I did. But um when he um
It's because you're a big fan. when he
the the fake blaze confused him and it I
think it confused him because he knew he
was in the general area. So
So
I I think it's safe to assume that both
the fake blaze and the real damaged
blaze were in the same general area
whatever that is. So a thousand feet.
Yeah. Three football fields. It's a big
it's a big place to look around.
Did anybody has anybody asked if he used
a metal detector?
I was thinking about that. So, let us
know in the chat if you if anyone has
asked him if he used a metal detector.
We do know though from the Q&A on Dale's
site that what he brought with him and
he talked about all that. He listed it
and he did not list a metal detector.
Good point.
As a possibility, Billy Shaw, hey Billy
Shaw, I got your email by the way and um
I will get back to you. Um he says a
clearing off of a creek where you would
need to know exactly where to leave the
creek to head up the clearing.
So Billy Shaw just made a great video. I
actually haven't watched it yet, but I'm
sure it's great about his solution.
You you bust it yourself.
Hey, he's a fiddle player. He's got to
be a good guy.
So anyway, he he made a great video on
his solution. Um, Gregory
Calvin, is it not Calvin? Calvin Garcia.
He mentioned all the gear and he didn't
list a metal detector. Correct. Yes. So,
so I'm guessing no. But honestly, there
is a part of me who not only wants to
look for that stick, but I want to look
for the ring, right? Just what if what
if a squirrel somehow got in there and
squirreled away that beautiful ring that
that Forest originally found with a
metal detector at San Lazero? Is it
Lazaro or Lazaro? Lazaro.
Lazaro.
Lazero. Okay. All right. Okay. Should we
move on to the next question? Yes.
Yes.
Okay. Next question. Do you still have
the instructions left by forest in the
chest? Is that an image you can share
with us or would that reveal more than
you are comfortable with? Even a partial
image would be amazing. And he responds,
I don't want to put out any of our legal documentation.
It's not terribly surprising to me.
Now, why is it legal? Why is it legal
documentation? because that's what we
were talking about last night. Um,
when we were on when I said about that's
about being in the lawyer's office and
Carl's office or wherever. Obviously,
they had they drew up the documentation
that he returned it to Forest. force
handed it back, gifted it for the IRS
and and whatever other I mean like when
we talked about this last night with
David or whoever I guess whoever was on
I forget and um but and it had to do with
with
uh Jack's use of the words explicit
permission like it was so important
that that Jack actually reach out to
force and get the explicit permission to
move it and then explicit permission the
next morning to retrieve it. So
So
yeah. Yeah.
It's a legal thing.
I agree. I mean I it it seems to
reinforce that the instructions left in
the chest were certainly certainly legal
in nature.
And you know, I don't think that's
terribly surprising, but it is kind of
nice to have that concreted by his
answer there because
you know, before I mean, I could imagine
someone saying, well, maybe the
instructions were just, you know, not of
a legal basis, just general instructions
on what what to do outside of, you know,
legal guidance. But it sounds pretty
clear here that the instructions that
Yeah, it was it was something that um
people speculated about, but the idea
that um you open the chest and right off
the bat it's like, okay,
okay,
there we've got some legal issues,
right? And uh and and I've thought about
them and and and it started, right? The
the clock is ticking. think things are
going to happen now. Um that that's
interesting. It it completely makes
sense, but but uh it's not it wasn't uh
front of mind for me over the years
thinking about opening the chest. Yeah.
Yeah.
And Gregory um Colin Garcia says, "Jack
keeps mentioning that there is enough
evidence to somehow confirm the
solution. Therefore, Home of Brown is
our best bet combined with Warm Waters
Halt. Jack Jack, who is not Jack, but
it's Jack Jack,
has Jack done any video interviews
postfind. So, when I first started
emailing back and forth with Jack, uh,
one of the things I I mentioned often
was, you know, I really hope you're able
to make some extra money, you know,
doing the circuit, doing the Josh Gates
and all that other kind of stuff. And so
I kind of refrained from asking many
questions because I assumed that he'd be
going on those shows, right? And I
didn't want to usurp that. And
eventually he said, because I said, you
know, would you like some information on
how to get in contact with Josh Gates
just in case? And he goes, I've turned
them all down. Basically, he said he
turned them all down and he's not interested.
interested.
Which blew my mind. I was like
I I was like, "Well, then I have a few
questions." Like, if you're I assumed he
was going to do this, you know, tour
thing, make some extra money, all this
other kind of stuff. And when he said
no, that's when I finally was like,
"Okay, I'm going to ask a few questions then."
then."
I guess I was thinking that would be
uh expected in the sense that you know
if there's ongoing litigation probably
the last thing you want to do is to go on
on
you know media outlets and discuss it in
more freely um you know he talked about
it he no he talked about it just wanting
to get back to his normal life
he didn't like reference litigation he
just was like I just want to get back to
my normal life
fair enough.
And so that's when I start asking
questions. I'm like, "Okay, I have a few
questions. Then if if I'm not going to
see these answers in an interview on
ABC, then I then I want to ask myself
and I feel bad because I obviously I
don't want to bug him. But at the same
time, Forest, if anything, Forest taught
me to be bold.
I'm still pretty not bold, but I, you
know, I up my game a little bit by
asking some of these questions." So, um,
as far as I know with the
correspondents, it seems like he's not
going to be doing that kind of a circuit
thing. No Josh Gates, no, um, ABC, NBC,
you know, none of those things. No
morning shows, no nothing.
I don't think there's there's a lot of
money to be made. I don't know what you
get paid to go on Good Morning America
for a two and a half minute segment or whatever.
whatever.
I don't Three grand. I don't know what
they give you. It's probably not much.
And he's probably thinking I'm good in
the I've got the windfall coming as he said.
said.
Makes sense.
Actually, I don't think you get if it's
if they can call themselves a news show,
you don't get anything. Even Inside
Edition didn't pay money. So, really?
really?
No. Now, Expedition Unknown, I believe,
you had to really beg for any of it. And
it was so minuscule and and it wasn't
me, but it's someone Amy that you and I
both know that did it. Yeah.
Yeah.
And um
Oh my god, the money was like barely
pays for your gas.
You know, it's funny. I never asked her
about the money. I never asked her like
about that
it was hardly any. I mean, I don't know
if it was a couple hundred bucks even.
But I know I mean I've done other media
including like the Today Show or
whatever, and there was there's no
money. I mean, and they tell you right
up front that it's if it's a news show,
they don't pay you.
And it's funny how they're all news shows.
shows.
I'm sure that there would be some I'm
sure there's some show out there that
would love to get Jack and and they are
not just a news show. So then he would
get paid. But
and also, I don't know if many people
have noticed, but Dan Barbarici, the guy
that wrote the article that was in
Outside Magazine, he's the one that's
making the rounds. He's been on almost everything.
everything.
Oh, he has. All I know is that he's
gonna be doing a book. What? What is he?
Oh, no. I saw him on Inside Edition
uh one night this past week.
Oh, dang it. I missed that.
He shot He had shot like a CBS morning.
He had he was getting ready to shoot, I
think, a a Today Show episode. So no,
he's Dan's the one that's mostly doing
the the discussion on the
but but at the same time so getting the notoriiety
notoriiety
but not financially benefiting because
it's all news.
Okay. All right. Um let's see here.
Gregory Calvin Garcia, hopefully I'm
saying that right. Uh, interestingly,
Jack also wonders if the nine clues
hindered the search and that one clues
had more nuance than he knew. Right.
That was on Dale's site. Correct. That
one clue had more nuance than he was
aware of.
Uh, Billy Shaw Jr., does anyone on the
panel have any doubts that Jack is the
I don't have any reason to doubt it. No.
Yeah. I would love to say yes. You know,
it was me or it was Cynthia or Justin or
Matt or Dale or someone, but I mean, he
found it. That's all you needed to do is
find the chest and it's yours, you know,
uh, with all the instructions and all
that. All right. So, should we move on
to the next question?
All right. Here we go.
And if you guys hear the panting, I
Okay, fifth question here. Question
number five. How soon after getting your
Thrill of the Chase book did you have
your search area pinned down and gone on
your first search? This is what kind of
blew me away. In a matter of weeks, less
than two months, I had the germ of the
idea and went out there. I did also do
some recons in the same area, but I went
out there principally because this
location did have evidence in its favor.
And as time went on, as much as I didn't
want the treasure to be there, I found
too much evidence to reasonably believe
it could be elsewhere.
Wow. Wow.
Yeah. Are we all saying wow about the
same flaws there?
I like to think so.
Want the treasure to be there? Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
Just vague enough.
Dangle that out there so it blows our minds.
minds.
Oh man.
Why didn't Why didn't he want it to be there?
there?
Surrounded by tourists. I mean, we could
just speculate, you know. No, it's the
legal implication because if it's
Yellowstone National Park, they will
come after him if it comes out.
Okay. Right. That's
I mean maybe. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's the first thing that comes
to my mind.
Yeah. Although Yeah. Yeah. I mean he
he's talking about um
the the question is about search area.
So, we're back to football fields,
but he may have just said I mean his
area is going to be within Yellowstone
Park. So, may maybe he's just saying
that. I don't know.
Or maybe he does just mean maybe he
maybe he does mean because he had to
wait across the creek and every time
then he had to get his feet wet or
something. Yeah. May maybe it doesn't
mean Yellowstone. Maybe it's more
specific to the actual spot. It's it's
interesting that um so here he I I
missed this the first time I read it. Uh
he he had the germ of the idea. So
uh he he found the general area very
quickly and that never changed. But
Right. Right.
But he talks about
um knowing where someone is going to die
is a strange sort of intimacy. But he
talks about the confidence that he had
and that kept him going as he um refined
his thinking and um and narrowed it down
more and more. But the but the general
spot never changed. He he just he got
that it clicked. He knew it. And um anyway
anyway
besides my mind being blown?
Well, yeah. So, so yeah, I think Matt's
right. It he he doesn't mean Yellowstone
National Park. I think Matt's right. He
means the place in his general area.
Is that I I don't know.
I mean, it can't be like he had to climb
up a cliff because Forest I mean, he's
only walking where Forest walks. But as
far as physical difficulty, I just don't
see how there could be any kind of an
obstacle or a barrier that would have
intimidated him to where he said that
versus force lugging that thing back
there when he's uh you know 80 years
old. So that that's h
it definitely has me um there's so many
things that have me perplexed, right? I
mean, as you guys know from the Zoom yesterday,
yesterday,
I I I'm just like I am pulling my hair
out trying to figure things out. And um
you know, I had other questions I wanted
to ask. There was actually one I'll I'll
go ahead and share screen again. There
was one that I asked and I I messed this
up because I thought I had asked uh five
questions, but I had asked six. And uh
one of the questions that was in the
middle of all these was this one that he
did not answer. And I did ask him, I'm
like, you know, I'm really sorry that I
didn't that I did six questions instead
of five.
I go, but this is the one I wanted
answered. So I asked him, you mentioned
on Dale's Q&A that the blaze must have
been damaged or destroyed. If someone
still working on TTOC TTOC correctly
solves it, will this be a problem for
them to find the exact nook? Is the
blaze missing or damaged beyond helpfulness?
helpfulness?
So, I mean, I I feel awful bugging him
so much, right? Asking these questions,
that kind of stuff. Um, I know how how
Forest always was like felt obligated to
answer all these and he seems to be in a
similar position where he's really
wanting to satisfy these questions. Um,
but this is one for whatever reason he
Let's see here. Uh, Gregory says, "I've
done it tired. tires or tire rails
now are old and weakly visible. I have
no idea what that means, Gregory.
He also says, "The pioneers like Osborne
Russell and Lewis Clark blazed the
trails." Alan K says, "Amy seeks, if it
wasn't on private property, why did he
need to call Forest to get permission to
retrieve it? That screams Yellowstone
for me.
Now, I think on Facebook this was
answered. Hey, KPro, what's up? Um, I
think on Facebook, um, he answered one
of these. Somebody said he might This
is, you know, this is the tricky part.
He answered that for me, the the
explicit permission. Um he he told me
that um
if he had found it um on his first
during his first uh search season 2018,
he probably would would have just
grabbed it. But over the years, his um I
guess awareness of kind of the the
lawsuits that were swirling around and
that sort of thing.
it in his mind he thought um and and and
this maybe this means there wasn't legal
documentation or maybe there was as well
but before he ever cracked the thing
open he was already thinking
um you know
just to be on the safe side I want to
take this step and do this and so [Music]
[Music]
so he did the explicit permission thing
found it on Friday and then
so it wasn't instructed in the letter
that Forest left in the in the box.
Well, we're assuming, right?
It it could also have been somehow part
part of that, but he he made it sound as
if in his mind he was already thinking
that, you know, once I, you know, once I
knock on the top of this thing, I'm
gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get him on the
phone. I'm gonna send him an email,
whatever. and get get permission.
He thought that this, you know, that's
what he told me.
And then he left it
and left. He left it in the safest place
he thought possible.
Going back to that last question though,
it does speak again to his confidence. Um,
Um,
you know, he he got tripped up by this
fake blaze, but he knew he was in the
right place. He got uh tripped up by he
he he didn't want it to be here, but he
knew it was. You know, it speaks to he
he was confident that he he knew this
was the spot. I've got a lot of
searching to do, right? 25 full days or
whatever was ahead of him,
but he he was confident.
So, you you can get you can get that
level of you can get that level of
confidence before you before you get there.
there. [Laughter]
[Laughter]
I'm just gonna squeak an uncomfortable
I honestly, you know, I I know I'm I'm
very ethical when it comes to a lot of
stuff and I'm always making sure I'm on
the right and it's like I'm doing things
correctly because on your deathbed,
that's who you are, right?
But I can't help to think that if I had
found the chest,
I would have totally squirreled it away
in my backpack, gone back to my car, and
then asked for permission to retrieve it.
it.
I mean, as ethical as I am, that's just
I mean, the chances What if I wouldn't
have been able to get past the whatifs?
What if what if a badger eats the treasure?
Um, you know, I and I know that I, you
know, so I've been trying to peruse
Facebook, right? And I'm like trying to
keep up with everything, which I am new
to Facebook since starting my channel
and seeing all these posts of people who
who who read about the fact that he left
the chest there, right? and um went to
go ask for us because he was he was so
confident that no one was going to find
it. It was like ah safest place in the
world, right? And he goes and contacts
Forest. Oh, that was the other thing,
right? So he goes to contact Forest on
June 5th and then recovers it on June
6th. Is that the correct timeline that
we have so far? Yes.
Yes.
Okay. All right. I should double check.
Okay. Yeah, I'm good. So
So
I don't know.
I understand why people are like, "No way."
way."
You know, the
the more that I hear
the more that I think that this was
a place that was exceedingly protected. um
um
the fact that so let's think about the
possible answers to this question. You
know what was the blaze?
Let's say the blaze was a rock.
Why can't he say that? Well, the blaze
was a rock. He doesn't want to answer
the question. He says that it was
damaged and moved, but he's afraid to
answer the question.
Animal, mineral, vegetable.
Why is he afraid to answer this
question? I think it's because it's
going to give away too much information
as to where the treasure was found.
Either it was a very notable event that
folks would, you know, like, well, it
was, you know, damaged by, I don't know,
a famous landslide or something that
might help kind of folks queue in on the
area. But more likely, in my opinion,
the blaze is something that was
incredibly unique. And if he called it
out right now, we'd know exactly where
it was at potentially. Ju just just my
two cents. I mean, it it does seem
what he's alluded to.
Yeah. I mean, okay. If it was a tree,
just say a tree. You know, it sounds
like it's something more specific than
that, like
a statue or,
you know, petrified piece of wood that
was of importance and protected, you
know, on display, you know, something.
It seems like it's something
considerably more unique than, you know,
otherwise he would just answer the
question. Like, it's it there's no need
to be ky about that. It's strange to me.
It's strange to me, too. So,
So,
so Justin, you you've done so much many
boots on the grounds looking at all
sorts of possibilities for blazes. Um,
and I'm assuming that maybe one of the
things you've done at least on one of
your searchs is you look for some kind
of a um a a formation of rock that's not
like a cliff, but I mean it's fairly
large like your size and and to see if
it looks like a bear or or or whatever.
Um, so you know, so Camel Rock, so so
outside of Santa Fe, and this has
nothing to do with actually what Jack
found, but outside of Santa Fe, there's
this huge rock formation called Camel
Rock and you know it it was it's been
standing there for years and years and
years and as a tourist pull off and you
know that camel's face fell off a couple
years ago. So
but you could still say a rock, right? I
mean, the chances that someone would would,
would,
you know, equate that to what you're
describing is small, I think.
Yeah. But, um, well, I'm just trying to
think of something that it could be that
isn't a tree or a wooden signpost or
something where nature nature damages it
like when the camel's face fell off.
That was sort of funny.
I mean, I think that there are displays
like this is a stretch, but you know,
there are displays within the national
park that have historic historical
significance. They're protected,
but you know, they,
you know, some of them are man-made,
some of them are quite unique. I mean,
it could be like a sculpture or
something to that effect where, you
know, if he said, "Well, the blaze was a
sculpture." Boy, how many sculptures are
on public display throughout the region
that we're describing that was damaged
in the last decade? Probably very few.
Uh that that I think would be an example
of of a scary answer to give. You know,
if the blaze was a sculpture and and
those are the types of things that I
think it may be is something that is is
unique enough where we're going to know
what it is if he says it. I I don't know
what that item is, but I think we would know.
know.
And a real quick question, Matt. Uh what
you sent me, is it okay to share that?
Is that why you sent it? Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay.
Are you asking for explicit permission?
Yes, I am.
Okay. I'm going to send you my legal
document now.
Always always ask for consent
and then tomorrow you can show it
tomorrow. Not today. Not tonight.
You can show right now, please.
All right, I'll get that ready. You guys
keep talking.
Well, I I think the most interesting
questions that have been posed to Jack
are the ones that he doesn't answer.
I mean, the ones where I think maybe it
was Allen that had asked him, was the
treasure actually in a canyon? And I'm
I'm paraphrasing. And the answer, I
think, was one word. It was maybe. Mhm.
I mean,
why wouldn't you just answer the
question? Like, that's a very strange
response to me. Like, it sounds like
hell yeah, it was any canyon. Like,
it's like, how else do you interpret
that? So, you know, there's those are
the types of questions to me that are
the most interesting are the ones where
we don't get a response or, you know,
nothing to our satisfaction. Anyway,
and real quick, Matt, which part would
you like me to share? I got a a an email
that just has the he didn't understand
my first question. Oops. Part.
Did I mess up?
I don't know. I'm really bad
technologically speaking, so I would not
assume that you messed up. I would
assume that I'm not sure what I'm doing.
Oh, I'm assuming I messed up.
Oh, I like that. Yes, it was you. It was
all you.
um the the the email I just sent you
that has my question and then his
answer. I I I took it out of a longer
email, but those are word for word.
Eventually, I can show them. Um
if you want to share screen, you can go
ahead and do that if it's more convenient.
convenient.
Can I work? No. Okay, I'll try and find
it. Give me a second.
Okay. All right. Right.
I so want to make sure I don't show
something I'm not supposed to show. Is
it Is it okay to talk about uh upcoming
videos or anything like that?
Not. You don't have my explicit
I'd be good. Okay.
Oh, I don't know. This this woman I
know, she she like cracked a whip to
make she wanted me to make a video and
and she kept talking about like when is
it coming? Is it coming in an hour soon?
I'm like
her name is Cynthia. She could be very
mean and
I'm I'm working on it.
I can't tell if Cynthia froze.
We got some We got something today that
they called a clue. wasn't really a
clue, but they called it a clue. And
that that got me away from
chapter four, Zoom, baby. Yeah. Chapter four.
four. Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the fact that six of us were
constantly texting you all morning.
So, you absolutely had no time to finish
that video. I know. I
But you better finish it tonight.
But yes, I expected to be out there.
Complaining about the clue. Oh, but
we're not this. We're not supposed to
talk about chapter four. Okay. All
right. All right.
And real quick, Jeep girl Jodie says,
"And Jeep girl Jodie sending hugs." Big
hugs. I thought the blaze was a white
rock uplift near Cold Springs Mountain
in Irish Canyon. Gregory says, "Uh, a
specific trail would definitely reveal
where to search or the route to search
through Wyoming." Billy Shaw Jr., What
if the blaze is a physical object? Uh,
that was supposed to say isn't a Oh,
what if the blaze isn't a physical object?
object?
Uh, Paladin Paladin says, "Read about
the secrets of White Rock Canyon. Glyphs
carved in stone all over the place from
hundreds of years ago." Jeep girl Jodie
says there is a bold white layer of
limestone at the top of a perched
canyon. Irish canyon journeyman says
sitting in just about the safest place
in the world. Question mark question
mark question mark.
It sounds like it's protected
very much so.
Ah, we're gonna find it. And I'm gonna
And go ahead and share anytime you're
ready, Matt. I'll keep reading. Oh, here
we go. There we go.
Can you see it?
We can. We can.
Okay. Again, I I
I I asked the question and he didn't
answer it and I don't have it nicely
spread out and and so you'll just have
to trust me that this is word for word.
I'm just distracted, Matt, by your song
charts on the on the right side there.
Can't imagine what that's related to.
The what? Oh,
how do I
Chapter four, baby?
Where are I don't even know what's over here.
here.
Carrie's gonna be mad at you.
Where's my You know, okay. Um, okay. So,
I asked him why asked permission. The
poem says take it. And Forest never
suggested you needed that. And like I
said earlier, he said, "If if I had
somehow found it uh my first boots on
the ground, I probably would have just
taken it and told him after. But the
more I thought about it over months in
the chase, the more I wanted it explicit
from him and not just dependent on words
in a poem. Just being careful. We all
knew this thing could turn into a legal
hot potato,
which it did.
Thank you, Matt.
You were sweating bullets. I could tell
not all of us are as techsavvy as you.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Right, Justin. Dang,
I have so many song charts. Mike, you
want one? I'll give you one.
Yeah, give us the song chart. Chapter 4
Zoom solve tonight on ABC.
Justin, there's somebody here who wants
to say hi to you.
I have to see what Justin looks like. Hi.
Hi.
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.
Nice to see you. I feel like I know you.
Well, likewise. I I listen to your show
regularly now, so
Oh, well, thanks. I appreciate it.
Anyway, I won't I know you guys have important
important
What show is that? What show is that?
It's a uh a radio an NPR uh affiliate
radio show that uh is on in like a bunch
of states and uh we talked about the
chase recently uh because of an article
done by a journalist and Justin was the
star of the article and so we talked all
about him. Yeah,
Yeah,
we were in town and and the um and the
article came out and so Justin, you and
I talked or whatever and it was very
exciting. It was fun. I thought it was
well written. And then um like later
that morning,
my producer found it.
A producer at her show said, "I found
this cool article." She didn't know he
or she
she pa
she didn't know the connection at all.
And so she's pitching the show to Chris
anyway. And then when the show is going
on, I'm texting you, Justin. I'm like,
it's a little weird that my wife is here
talking about you on the radio. But
anyway, it was a fun it was a fun hour.
That's a bit odd. Yeah. I mean,
shameless plug, though. Uh, her show
called Think is phenomenal. So, everybody,
everybody,
that was your show that I listened to. Yes.
Yes.
Cool. You guys all got to I'll put the
link in the description below as long
along with the other links of all the
stuff we're talking about.
Awesome. Thank you. Well, y'all have a
great night. Bye. Bye.
Nice to meet you. Yeah.
Nice to see you.
Well, that was way cool.
That was very cool.
Yeah, it was. It was. I mean, her her
show is not about me. It's not about our
lives. I mean, it's just it was weird,
you know, to have the radio on and she's
talking about Forest Fen and she's
talking about my friend Justin and and
it's like it's like this is kind of
weird. But
well, there's one thing in particular
that she said during that interview that
I had to exclaim out loud. Thank you
emphatically. Um, I'll let you guess
which line that was.
What? No, don't make us guess.
I don't know. I don't know.
Well, take it over.
Give us a hint. Give us a hint. Anything.
Anything.
No, I better not. No. Oh, you're cruel. Cruel.
Cruel.
Just a hint.
No. No. I'm drinking tea now. You can't
get to me.
Dang it. Dang it. Jenny. Jenny, can we
get another drink for him? Yeah.
All right. We've got a few comments from
chat. Here we go. Gary, by the way. Hi,
Gary. So Gary Richer is um he's in chat
and he says could go back to the blaze
being a petetroglyph many of which are
documented especially in Yellowstone as
far as the blaze is concerned and being
a unique object that would
that if you knew it it would somehow
jeopardize the location.
Right. So
that's a great example. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, potentially something
that's protected, you know, potentially
by the park authorities or something
that's kind of maybe even roped off. I
don't know. But, um, you know, something
that would stand the test of time,
something that's a a staple of the landscape.
landscape.
Uh, but something that you would know if
someone said you, "Oh, the blaze was a
petroglyph." And you'd think, "Oh, well,
there's only been a handful of
petetroglyphs that have, you know,
petetroglyphs that have been destroyed
to that degree in the last 10 years. It
can't be that hard to track down, right?
Yes, we know he said destroyed or
damaged. But that's what kills me.
Destroyed or damaged? Which one? And
that was the one question he didn't
answer. And I'm like, oh, I re I
responded, you know, saying, I'm sorry,
I meant to I meant to do five questions,
not six. And um this was the question
that was really important for me. And
unfortunately, let me just check right
now, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't
responded yet as far as uh the blaze is
concerned. Um, no, still no response as
far as whether or not it was damaged or
destroyed and how that would affect
someone searching for the treasure in
today. You know, I mean, one of the
biggest concerns we all have is if we
are going to continue trying to figure
out where the special spot is, is there
any way to know, right? Otherwise, we're
back where we started where no one's
found the chest yet and we all know
exactly where it is, right?
You know, at this point, how do we know,
you know, 100% if we got it correct?
Besides the stick, you know, we I only
have one search season under our belt
here. That's it. That stick is going to
be gone in another year. So, this is
make or break us right here. [Music]
[Music]
Well, and and
stick 2021.
Unless that stick blew into the safest
place in the world. Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh. Possible.
Possible.
All right, let's see. So, uh Jack Jack
after that, by the way, hi Gary. Gary is
the one who uh Forest when he was coming
out for Fenbury slipped and like totally
slammed into Gary's truck and dented it.
It was like a Superman moment, you know,
or like uh the what was that vampire
show where, you know, he like puts his
hands up duck dents the truck and uh
yeah, it was crazy. And so anyway, um
that that is who Gary is of the dented
truck fame. Uh, Jack Jackack says, "We
all have a huge advantage that Jack
didn't have, namely a 75% reduction in
search area. Theoretically, it should be
75% easier to solve now." Just saying.
Oh, I mean I agree that there's a huge
reduction in the area, but for those
poor schmucks like myself who were
pretty much convinced it was in Wyoming
to begin with
doesn't doesn't help all that much, unfortunately.
All right. Lucky Digger says, "I thought
that in CBRO's interview, he said
something about some kind of canyon."
That was the maybe, right? That was the
was it in canyon or not? And he's like maybe.
maybe. Yep.
Yep.
Or does she mean forest fans interview
with KPro? Uh
Uh
doesn't say. It doesn't specify. So let
us know. Lucky Digger. Uh Billy Shaw Jr.
says, and by the way, Amy seeks
uh that's how I see the uh questions. Uh
Billy Shaw Jr. I think Jack has said
that he thought it must have been
destroyed or damaged and that he never
found it. He didn't explicitly say he
never found it, but it I don't know.
Should we bring that up? Should I bring
that up in um the Q&A on Dale's site? Sure.
Sure.
Okay, let me go ahead and do that. You
Well, some somewhere he says I I think
it's the paragraph we're talking about.
It's worded
uh strangely. He says that something
like through much effort I was able to
ascertain that I I was in fact looking
at the real damaged blaze or whatever.
And then you're like, what does that
look like? What does that process look
okay. Yeah, there were a couple of
answers on there that really didn't set
well. You know, there there was the
other one where someone asked if they
could disclose if if Jack could disclose
what the blade is. And the answer was
kind of odd. I mean, the way it was
worded, he said that he said, "I think
that could imperel the location if it
ever becomes known." So,
So,
what does that mean? Like it doesn't
necessarily mean so only if the location
becomes known will the location become
imperiled if we were to know what the
blaze was. Like what what I I'm very
confused by that terminology in his
response. Maybe I'm just nitpicking though.
though.
Yeah. I think he I mean to play devil's
advocate he was fielding a lot of
questions dozens and dozens of questions
and often he was getting back to people
in 15 or 20 minutes so
you know maybe a you know not the most
elegant way to express that or something
I see what you're saying but
I don't I don't know I'm just playing
devil devil's advocate
Amy's gone. We can do whatever we want.
What are we doing, Cynthia?
Magic. Justin's been Justin's gonna dance.
dance.
You're going to do magic and Justin's
gonna dance and
No, actually, he's going to do magic
while he dances.
Was this like a job?
Wait, are you the dancing magician?
Yes, he is.
No, not at all.
All right, the the the teacher's back.
We need to behave.
What did I miss?
It's very uh [Laughter]
[Laughter]
What did I miss? Come on. Nothing.
Nothing.
I'm sorry. My dog had gotten a hold of
something that
I feel like just blurting out everything
that I blurted out Justin to you and
Cynthia the other morning when I was
like, "Okay, well, if this is what he
says, I think I know where it is."
Can we go there? kind of feel the same,
you know. And to be fair though, like
David Steele has has been a a grounding
force for me in the sense that, you
know, he comes back to the math and he
talks about as as much as as much to the
chagrin of many folks watching the
geographic coordinate solution and the
mathematical probability that that is a
coincidence is astronomically low. I'm
just going to have to throw it out
there. I mean, it is what it is. Like,
the numbers kind of speak for
themselves. So, you know, I I don't
think it's any secret that David
Steele's opinion on this is that that
Jack isn't being totally honest, you
know, with the present situation for
what he feels are obvious reasons and
that there's there's no reason to have
any of this discussion that we're having
right now because of course the
geographic coordinate solution is
correct and it and if you look at the
math, I mean, it's it's hard to discount
[Laughter]
Well, okay. But no, this is where I No,
this this is the problem I have with that.
that.
You have to do some gymnastics a little
bit to get to the number that works. I
mean, come on. This thing was Nobody got
to the number. If it's so obvious,
nobody got to the number. And I'm not
saying you were saying it's obvious, but
if if if all signs point in one
direction to one number, then somebody
would have figured out in year one.
No one did. And you you have to do these
you have to bend over backwards a little
bit. It f and this okay the the starting
place doesn't work. So let me do another
starting place. And uh the homonyms
don't work. So let me also add kangaroo
words. and this one could be, but let me
rule it out because it doesn't work. So,
you you kind of have to tweak it and
twist it and and then you get your
number and then you stand back and say,
"Look at this thing that just appeared."
That's that's kind of how I feel. I I
don't think it just comes to you. I
think you you you've kind of you kind of have to massage it.
have to massage it. Fair. Yeah. I mean, so the rules for
Fair. Yeah. I mean, so the rules for this are you start where he says to
this are you start where he says to begin
begin and anything that
and anything that has a literal number spelled out in the
has a literal number spelled out in the word is fair game. And anything that
word is fair game. And anything that homophonically speaking sounds like a
homophonically speaking sounds like a number is also fair game. Those are the
number is also fair game. Those are the only rules. I mean, I guess I view those
only rules. I mean, I guess I view those as as fairly straightforward, but you
as as fairly straightforward, but you know,
know, you know, to to my own credit, like I
you know, to to my own credit, like I wrote those those numbers out long ago
wrote those those numbers out long ago and I couldn't make sense of them and I
and I couldn't make sense of them and I started at the top of the poem. I didn't
started at the top of the poem. I didn't I mean, it sounds again, it sounds silly
I mean, it sounds again, it sounds silly now, but you know, start where he says
now, but you know, start where he says to begin seems reasonable now in
to begin seems reasonable now in retrospect, but but I agree that there
retrospect, but but I agree that there are there's the the one that's most
are there's the the one that's most contentious to me is this whole
contentious to me is this whole wraparound technique. It's like you get
wraparound technique. It's like you get to the bottom of the poem, but no, you
to the bottom of the poem, but no, you got to keep going. You go back up to the
got to keep going. You go back up to the top and you add this one digit. That
top and you add this one digit. That one, that one especially is bothersome
one, that one especially is bothersome to me. But you know, just the mere fact
to me. But you know, just the mere fact that you you start at a a position in
that you you start at a a position in the poem and consecutively from there
the poem and consecutively from there you end up with numbers that that of the
you end up with numbers that that of the billions and billions of ge geographic
billions and billions of ge geographic coordinates in the world land in the
coordinates in the world land in the prescribed area and meet all the
prescribed area and meet all the criteria. I mean that that is
criteria. I mean that that is interesting to me. Whether or not it's
interesting to me. Whether or not it's correct is clearly debatable. Um, unless
correct is clearly debatable. Um, unless you talk to David, it's not
you talk to David, it's not correct. Right.
correct. Right. It's the It is It
It's the It is It Yeah. So, you know, I I I like both
Yeah. So, you know, I I I like both sides of this. I mean, I understand if
sides of this. I mean, I understand if you're looking at it mathematically,
you're looking at it mathematically, it's it's it's hard to it's hard to
it's it's it's hard to it's hard to stray from it. But you're right. There
stray from it. But you're right. There are rules that are involved to derive
are rules that are involved to derive those numbers. And it really kind of
those numbers. And it really kind of boils down to whether or not you think
boils down to whether or not you think those rules are reasonable.
those rules are reasonable. Yeah,
but I digress. Back to the uh topic here.
Oh, so um something I've never really talked about much was I was never like a
talked about much was I was never like a fan of the GPS solve, but I was super
fan of the GPS solve, but I was super excited because obviously I don't know.
excited because obviously I don't know. I'm not Forest and I'm not the person
I'm not Forest and I'm not the person who found it, right? So, a huge part of
who found it, right? So, a huge part of it was just being so happy that Cynthia
it was just being so happy that Cynthia had I remember when she texted me, I've
had I remember when she texted me, I've slept the best I have, you know, in the
slept the best I have, you know, in the past however many years, right? And
past however many years, right? And after that, I don't care whether it's
after that, I don't care whether it's right or not, right? You know, it's like
right or not, right? You know, it's like it's like I'm just so excited. Um
it's like I'm just so excited. Um because it gave her this peace of mind.
because it gave her this peace of mind. It was like, yay, right? And so now
It was like, yay, right? And so now we're in this whole thing about it's
we're in this whole thing about it's like, oh shoot, now we don't know
like, oh shoot, now we don't know whether or not for sure if it was
whether or not for sure if it was correct or not. And hopefully eventually
correct or not. And hopefully eventually that's going to come out. You know,
that's going to come out. You know, hopefully eventually we'll have some
hopefully eventually we'll have some indication if you know even if it wasn't
indication if you know even if it wasn't GPS, is it the right spot? Right? We
GPS, is it the right spot? Right? We even if it wasn't GPS, was it the right
even if it wasn't GPS, was it the right spot and all that kind of stuff. Um but
spot and all that kind of stuff. Um but uh you know I I do want to go through
uh you know I I do want to go through eventually with Justin uh the whole
eventually with Justin uh the whole thing because I remember when I first
thing because I remember when I first saw it I was like
saw it I was like you know the massaging thing. I'm like I
you know the massaging thing. I'm like I don't know how I feel about this.
So, so I you know I I do want to do that at some point but um yeah I guess I
at some point but um yeah I guess I guess it is difficult when when the
guess it is difficult when when the finder says you know I mean just like
finder says you know I mean just like with forest how much do we believe how
with forest how much do we believe how much do we think maybe is being fibbed
much do we think maybe is being fibbed upon to save some information or
upon to save some information or something like that. how much do we take
something like that. how much do we take at face value? And the finder says, you
at face value? And the finder says, you know, no GPS, but um at the same time,
know, no GPS, but um at the same time, like Justin is saying with the the um
like Justin is saying with the the um the numbers, like what is the
the numbers, like what is the coincidence of this? And and so so I I
coincidence of this? And and so so I I always find myself being like, well, you
always find myself being like, well, you know, with numbers, as clear as numbers
know, with numbers, as clear as numbers are, they can still be fuzzy. You know,
are, they can still be fuzzy. You know, numbers can still be fuzzy when you when
numbers can still be fuzzy when you when you consider whatever rules that you're
you consider whatever rules that you're putting forth for those numbers. And
putting forth for those numbers. And yeah, I think that's why it's really
yeah, I think that's why it's really important to, you know, have clear
important to, you know, have clear justifiable rules when you're doing the
justifiable rules when you're doing the analysis of the poem in order to pull
analysis of the poem in order to pull out those numbers. Uh, but
out those numbers. Uh, but right,
right, you know, I mean, the numbers aside,
you know, I mean, the numbers aside, it's, you know, Jack has emphatically
it's, you know, Jack has emphatically said pretty clearly that the the
said pretty clearly that the the geographic coordinate solution is
geographic coordinate solution is incorrect. And so it's it's it's one of
incorrect. And so it's it's it's one of two things. You know, I generally, from
two things. You know, I generally, from my perspective, I I like to give folks
my perspective, I I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to
the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to take what they're saying at face value
take what they're saying at face value unless there's a compelling reason to
unless there's a compelling reason to the contrary. And
the contrary. And so far, Jack hasn't said anything that
so far, Jack hasn't said anything that makes me think, you know what, I can't I
makes me think, you know what, I can't I don't have confidence in what he's
don't have confidence in what he's saying. That's not true. I do have
saying. That's not true. I do have confidence because I have no reason not
confidence because I have no reason not to.
to. Right.
Right. And and you know, I've heard folks say,
And and you know, I've heard folks say, well, you know, he didn't even want to
well, you know, he didn't even want to come out. But the fact is he's public
come out. But the fact is he's public now and he and it appears to me that
now and he and it appears to me that he's he's doing his best. like he's
he's he's doing his best. like he's reaching out and making the best of what
reaching out and making the best of what was an unfortunate situation. He's
was an unfortunate situation. He's responding to emails. He's trying to
responding to emails. He's trying to balance,
balance, you know, he's he's walking this line
you know, he's he's walking this line and he's trying to give folks throw
and he's trying to give folks throw folks a bone, but at the same time,
folks a bone, but at the same time, there are legal implications that that
there are legal implications that that could harm him, I'm sure. Um, and it's
could harm him, I'm sure. Um, and it's just it's it's hard. I can imagine that.
just it's it's hard. I can imagine that. But, you know, for other folks, it's
But, you know, for other folks, it's like, well, I just I don't trust what
like, well, I just I don't trust what he's saying because the numbers speak
he's saying because the numbers speak for themselves. And I, you know, I I I I
for themselves. And I, you know, I I I I can see both sides of that.
can see both sides of that. Do you think um so like I was surprised
Do you think um so like I was surprised that legally he was forced to come
that legally he was forced to come forward with who he was because that was
forward with who he was because that was eventually going to come out. I just I
eventually going to come out. I just I guess I was surprised. I'm like, you
guess I was surprised. I'm like, you know, I just the court systems I'm like,
know, I just the court systems I'm like, god dang it. Um, do you guys think that
god dang it. Um, do you guys think that there is this potential that the
there is this potential that the location will also be revealed just due
location will also be revealed just due to the court systems needing to verify
to the court systems needing to verify that the um claim of of of saying I'
that the um claim of of of saying I' I've solved it. This is where it was. I
I've solved it. This is where it was. I mean, is that really a possibility?
mean, is that really a possibility? I hope not.
I hope not. I really hope not. I mean, as much as
I really hope not. I mean, as much as I'd love to know the location,
I'd love to know the location, that would be just another unfortunate
that would be just another unfortunate day for our legal system to get to the
day for our legal system to get to the point where you're having to dredge out
point where you're having to dredge out this sort of information from folks that
this sort of information from folks that this was a game, guys. You know, at the
this was a game, guys. You know, at the end of the day, like this was meant to
end of the day, like this was meant to be fun for everyone. It's over. You
be fun for everyone. It's over. You know, the game's over. There are sore
know, the game's over. There are sore losers involved in this game, no doubt.
losers involved in this game, no doubt. But
But always, right, always sore losers. It
always, right, always sore losers. It would seem it would seem like um rather
would seem it would seem like um rather than you know putting the onus over on
than you know putting the onus over on the defendant in this case, the
the defendant in this case, the plaintiff
plaintiff can can uh produce phone records and we
can can uh produce phone records and we can find out who who was texting her the
can find out who who was texting her the right remember the
right remember the right and then that would end it all.
right and then that would end it all. We all saw those email exchanges that
We all saw those email exchanges that were going back and forth and she says
were going back and forth and she says she's saying now that's that's the
she's saying now that's that's the finder. So therefore, she's saying that
finder. So therefore, she's saying that that's Jack. Once once we identify that,
that's Jack. Once once we identify that, then then the whole thing can go away
then then the whole thing can go away because it's not him.
because it's not him. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's true. So I Yeah, I don't know. But who who
So I Yeah, I don't know. But who who knows? Who knows?
knows? Who knows? That part is confusing. I I guess I've
That part is confusing. I I guess I've been surprised so far that it's gotten
been surprised so far that it's gotten as far as it has. Um just because anyone
as far as it has. Um just because anyone could claim exactly what she's claiming,
could claim exactly what she's claiming, you know? And so it confuses me that um
you know? And so it confuses me that um that it it continues to get traction.
that it it continues to get traction. And you know, I just feel I feel awful
And you know, I just feel I feel awful that I'm so excited that we have a
that I'm so excited that we have a finder because of the way it had to come
finder because of the way it had to come out. And I you know, I feel that same
out. And I you know, I feel that same conflict with obviously if we if we knew
conflict with obviously if we if we knew the location, you know, all of us would
the location, you know, all of us would be like I mean it would be the ultimate
be like I mean it would be the ultimate like you know, you have the climax in a
like you know, you have the climax in a book, right? you know, you're waiting
book, right? you know, you're waiting you're waiting to know the ultimate
you're waiting to know the ultimate information, which is where was it
information, which is where was it found, right? And all of us would be
found, right? And all of us would be like,
like, "All right,
"All right, but but ask yourself like,
but but ask yourself like, but that's not how I want it to come
but that's not how I want it to come out, you know?
out, you know? How do you want to find this
How do you want to find this information?" Like, exactly. This is
information?" Like, exactly. This is like any other riddle or puzzle out
like any other riddle or puzzle out there, right? Like if you go to the
there, right? Like if you go to the store and you're like, I'm going to buy
store and you're like, I'm going to buy this puzzle to solve,
this puzzle to solve, thousands of people have already solved
thousands of people have already solved it, but you're still buying it, right?
it, but you're still buying it, right? Like you you still want to solve it on
Like you you still want to solve it on your own.
your own. I adore the aha moment. It's like
I adore the aha moment. It's like that's right out.
that's right out. You've purchased this for your own
You've purchased this for your own amusement. Like that's and if somebody
amusement. Like that's and if somebody burst into the room and said ah the
burst into the room and said ah the answer is ABC. It's like come on like
answer is ABC. It's like come on like you know I was trying to do this for
you know I was trying to do this for myself and that's
myself and that's so ask yourself the question at the end
so ask yourself the question at the end of the day what would you feel better
of the day what would you feel better about? Would you feel better that yes,
about? Would you feel better that yes, you got a few hints because the person
you got a few hints because the person that found it threw you some hints, but
that found it threw you some hints, but didn't didn't give it to you on a silver
didn't didn't give it to you on a silver platter. You know, you still had to work
platter. You know, you still had to work for it and and you found it and and
for it and and you found it and and that's something I think you can feel
that's something I think you can feel proud of. But
proud of. But if someone comes out and gives you the
if someone comes out and gives you the answer right off the bat, is that really
answer right off the bat, is that really the way you want to go about this? I you
the way you want to go about this? I you know, maybe it is for some people, but
know, maybe it is for some people, but not for me.
not for me. Cynthia, how are you about that? because
Cynthia, how are you about that? because I know you are kind of like I want to
I know you are kind of like I want to know, right? How do you feel about that,
know, right? How do you feel about that, Cynthia?
Cynthia? So, because I don't really know what the
So, because I don't really know what the answers to the clues are, the next step
answers to the clues are, the next step Jack could do to really really help is
Jack could do to really really help is say Yellowstone National Park, yes or
say Yellowstone National Park, yes or no. Then that still
no. Then that still it it's it's almost as I mean that's the
it it's it's almost as I mean that's the next step after Fen said it was in
next step after Fen said it was in Wyoming. So now I mean a lot of us
Wyoming. So now I mean a lot of us that's the question. Well do you think
that's the question. Well do you think it was in Yellowstone or was it outside
it was in Yellowstone or was it outside the park? So
the park? So especially okay so one way you can sort
especially okay so one way you can sort of analyze this is if it was inside
of analyze this is if it was inside Yellowstone he cannot probably say it
Yellowstone he cannot probably say it was in Yellowstone.
was in Yellowstone. If it's not if it was not in
If it's not if it was not in Yellowstone, what harm would there be to
Yellowstone, what harm would there be to this place that he's trying to protect
this place that he's trying to protect so much? What harm would there be in him
so much? What harm would there be in him saying it was not inside Yellowstone
saying it was not inside Yellowstone National Park?
National Park? So, that to me would be an incredible
So, that to me would be an incredible incredibly helpful. And it still doesn't
incredibly helpful. And it still doesn't take you to the special place, but it it
take you to the special place, but it it helps narrow it down. That's a good
helps narrow it down. That's a good question. So, if it's not in
question. So, if it's not in Yellowstone, what are the implications?
Yellowstone, what are the implications? If he said it's not in Yellowstone, what
If he said it's not in Yellowstone, what do you guys think? What What are the
do you guys think? What What are the implications if he said that?
implications if he said that? There are none. This I mean to me I mean
There are none. This I mean to me I mean because I've searched so much of the
because I've searched so much of the wilderness, the Shichonne, you know,
wilderness, the Shichonne, you know, National Wilderness, which is huge. Um
National Wilderness, which is huge. Um I just don't if it would have been
I just don't if it would have been there, I don't even see what harm would
there, I don't even see what harm would it be him saying that. Now, if there's
it be him saying that. Now, if there's some kind of a protected area like
some kind of a protected area like Justin talked about earlier, sure, I
Justin talked about earlier, sure, I understand Jack not wanting to give up a
understand Jack not wanting to give up a spot that's really really protected. But
spot that's really really protected. But if it's if it's a national wilderness in
if it's if it's a national wilderness in Wyoming,
Wyoming, obviously outside of Yellowstone, I just
obviously outside of Yellowstone, I just don't see how um that could hurt
don't see how um that could hurt anything, which to me implies then it's
anything, which to me implies then it's probably inside Yellowstone. But that's
probably inside Yellowstone. But that's just me. It's not like I know anything.
just me. It's not like I know anything. I mean, I don't know, but that's just my
I mean, I don't know, but that's just my interpretation of him not telling us.
interpretation of him not telling us. I don't think anyone's posed the
I don't think anyone's posed the question to him, but I suspect that he
question to him, but I suspect that he would not he would choose not to answer
would not he would choose not to answer that. And I think by virtue of not
that. And I think by virtue of not answering that question, he has answered
answering that question, he has answered the question
the question sort of like I guess he could you could
sort of like I guess he could you could ask him that and he could just say
ask him that and he could just say maybe like the canyon. But when he said
maybe like the canyon. But when he said the maybe, it's like yes, it was found
the maybe, it's like yes, it was found in a canyon. So h
in a canyon. So h So you guys are thinking it like you're
So you guys are thinking it like you're leaning towards it has to be
leaning towards it has to be Yellowstone.
Yellowstone. It only because of the
It only because of the Yeah, I I guess I am just because he
Yeah, I I guess I am just because he won't say that it's not.
won't say that it's not. And it just seems to me
And it just seems to me because there I think there's going to
because there I think there's going to be so many legal issues if it really was
be so many legal issues if it really was in Yellowstone. Maybe there's legal
in Yellowstone. Maybe there's legal issues that forest that came about since
issues that forest that came about since forest hit it. You know, you know, rules
forest hit it. You know, you know, rules do change.
do change. Yes. So, but I don't keep up with it and
Yes. So, but I don't keep up with it and I don't know if anything has changed
I don't know if anything has changed with regarding national parks in the
with regarding national parks in the last 10 years, but
last 10 years, but it uh it just seems to me that yeah, I
it uh it just seems to me that yeah, I guess that's where I'm leaning.
guess that's where I'm leaning. Okay. As far as just people in the chat
Okay. As far as just people in the chat room and on this panel, how many are
room and on this panel, how many are over 50% that it was in Yellowstone?
Wow. I mean, not dramatically over 50%. Uh,
I mean, not dramatically over 50%. Uh, but think about the land designations
but think about the land designations that are at our disposal here, right?
that are at our disposal here, right? We've got
We've got national park, we've got state park, we
national park, we've got state park, we have BLM, we have forest service. Uh,
have BLM, we have forest service. Uh, what am I missing? Designated wilderness
what am I missing? Designated wilderness areas, like actual wilderness areas.
areas, like actual wilderness areas. Correct. And
Correct. And you have like the rec Aren't there like
you have like the rec Aren't there like reclamation areas? So outside of Cody
reclamation areas? So outside of Cody there's like bicycle trails or something
there's like bicycle trails or something and they're on a uh a kind of it's not
and they're on a uh a kind of it's not actually BLM but it's similar to it but
actually BLM but it's similar to it but it's not called that. It's like
it's not called that. It's like reclamation or and it's still federal
reclamation or and it's still federal though.
though. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, some sort of
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, some sort of federal designation. And then the last
federal designation. And then the last one would be uh uh Indian land, right? I
one would be uh uh Indian land, right? I mean an Indian reservation and I think
mean an Indian reservation and I think that's those are the and of course
that's those are the and of course private land, right? So th those are the
private land, right? So th those are the designations at our disposal. So which
designations at our disposal. So which of those would cause legal implications?
of those would cause legal implications? Well, probably most of them to a certain
Well, probably most of them to a certain degree, but some certainly more than
degree, but some certainly more than others, right? I mean on one spectrum
others, right? I mean on one spectrum you have something like
you have something like an Indian reservation that is that is
an Indian reservation that is that is problematic for a lot of reasons. Uh but
problematic for a lot of reasons. Uh but on the other side you have something
on the other side you have something like national forest that's certainly
like national forest that's certainly more lenient than I think pretty much
more lenient than I think pretty much anything in between unless it was
anything in between unless it was private land owned by forest where you
private land owned by forest where you pretty much can do whatever he said you
pretty much can do whatever he said you could do which might be pretty much
could do which might be pretty much anything. Uh you know as long as you
anything. Uh you know as long as you know he's not responsible for any
know he's not responsible for any liability. Uh but yeah I mean I think
liability. Uh but yeah I mean I think it's interesting to look at it from that
it's interesting to look at it from that perspective is like you know obviously
perspective is like you know obviously there's some legal concerns here. So
there's some legal concerns here. So which of those designations
which of those designations would help drive the answers that he's
would help drive the answers that he's given? And you know national park is
given? And you know national park is certainly near the top. I mean I think
certainly near the top. I mean I think Indian reservation would be at the top
Indian reservation would be at the top and um you know depending on the type of
and um you know depending on the type of private land
private land who owns the chest after it was found.
who owns the chest after it was found. How about fishing game? So you know
How about fishing game? So you know Justin in Sunlight Basin there were
Justin in Sunlight Basin there were there were some side areas that were
there were some side areas that were definitely governed by federal fishing
definitely governed by federal fishing game. What kind of regulations do they
game. What kind of regulations do they have?
have? So, fishing game is I I don't know all
So, fishing game is I I don't know all the implications, but I'm not aware of
the implications, but I'm not aware of any additional restrictions that would
any additional restrictions that would only apply to fishing game. As far as I
only apply to fishing game. As far as I know, it's mostly in line with what
know, it's mostly in line with what you'd see for any other uh national
you'd see for any other uh national forest designation.
forest designation. Um, but you know, that that may vary by
Um, but you know, that that may vary by state. I I don't know.
I'm definitely Okay, so the chat is saying, let's see, what do we have?
saying, let's see, what do we have? We definitely have kind of a split chat
We definitely have kind of a split chat as far as we have 100% as far as it
as far as we have 100% as far as it being in Yellowstone. KPro says
being in Yellowstone. KPro says Yellowstone. Um,
Yellowstone. Um, yes, 99.99999%
yes. So, I mean, and we have a no from Zoza Rocks.
Zoza Rocks. Stuck in Chase Landia says M. I have no
Stuck in Chase Landia says M. I have no idea what that means.
idea what that means. Montana.
Montana. Um 99% it was in Yellowstone National
Um 99% it was in Yellowstone National Park. Uh so so I think a lot of people
Park. Uh so so I think a lot of people are leaning towards Yellowstone, which
are leaning towards Yellowstone, which you know, part of that kills me just
you know, part of that kills me just because when I was working on it, I kept
because when I was working on it, I kept thinking there's no way it would be in
thinking there's no way it would be in Yellowstone. you know, it's just so
Yellowstone. you know, it's just so complicated there, you know, like how
complicated there, you know, like how could you get around all of the rules
could you get around all of the rules and laws and all that kind of stuff to
and laws and all that kind of stuff to give somebody something like in the um
give somebody something like in the um in the CBS Sunday Morning interview
in the CBS Sunday Morning interview where he says, "What if there's not a
where he says, "What if there's not a problem?"
problem?" And I'm like, "Well, that rules out
And I'm like, "Well, that rules out Yellowstone, right?"
Yellowstone, right?" Well, see that I'm not going full
Well, see that I'm not going full circle.
circle. He he So, when I first started The
He he So, when I first started The Chase, I thought, "Oh, yeah, Yellowstone
Chase, I thought, "Oh, yeah, Yellowstone makes a makes sense." It's like his
makes a makes sense." It's like his memoir is about it. He's in love with
memoir is about it. He's in love with Yellowstone. Let's take it at face
Yellowstone. Let's take it at face value. Let's just go to it. Right.
value. Let's just go to it. Right. Right.
Right. And then I start thinking about the
And then I start thinking about the legal implication. It's like, well, no
legal implication. It's like, well, no way. Like this sounds really scary to
way. Like this sounds really scary to hide it in a national park. There's a
hide it in a national park. There's a lot of problems here. Why would he?
lot of problems here. Why would he? What if?
What if? But then I came full circle and said
But then I came full circle and said really one of the few places that can
really one of the few places that can make sense is Yellowstone. And what I
make sense is Yellowstone. And what I landed on was, and I know I've mentioned
landed on was, and I know I've mentioned this before, so I apologize for
this before, so I apologize for repeating myself, but
repeating myself, but I think it is important. And that is
I think it is important. And that is the land designation
the land designation has an impact on the stability of the
has an impact on the stability of the land, right? So national forest, I mean
land, right? So national forest, I mean you can you can that can be leased out
you can you can that can be leased out for for activities like logging,
for for activities like logging, stripping the land. I mean it's not
stripping the land. I mean it's not ironclad. Things can happen there.
ironclad. Things can happen there. BLM is even worse.
BLM is even worse. And so you think about the kinds of
And so you think about the kinds of areas where
areas where Wait, how is BLM worse? BLM
Wait, how is BLM worse? BLM volatility.
volatility. I'm sorry, ma'am.
I'm sorry, ma'am. In terms of volatility change and
In terms of volatility change and Oh, right. Because it's not such a
Oh, right. Because it's not such a strong designation as far as being
strong designation as far as being changed through through Congress through
changed through through Congress through that kind of stuff.
that kind of stuff. That's right. Yeah. And so I'm looking
That's right. Yeah. And so I'm looking at places that are really protected
at places that are really protected because those are the types of places
because those are the types of places that have the most stability for the
that have the most stability for the land that's in that boundary. So
land that's in that boundary. So very stable land would be something like
very stable land would be something like a national park or a wilderness area. I
a national park or a wilderness area. I mean, you know, you think about a
mean, you know, you think about a wilderness area and that's like the gold
wilderness area and that's like the gold standard of conservation of land.
standard of conservation of land. Like if you get wilderness designation,
Like if you get wilderness designation, you're home free. You can't do anything
you're home free. You can't do anything there,
there, right?
right? And yes, there is wilderness area very
And yes, there is wilderness area very close to national park that's or to
close to national park that's or to Yellowstone that is interesting, too.
Yellowstone that is interesting, too. But those are the types of lands that
But those are the types of lands that are most interesting to me because
are most interesting to me because they're stable. They'll be stable for
they're stable. They'll be stable for years to come. Yeah. Yeah.
years to come. Yeah. Yeah. And Yellowstone.
So you I think Yellowstone is also on people's
I think Yellowstone is also on people's radars because
radars because um correct me if I'm wrong but Twice
um correct me if I'm wrong but Twice Forest
Forest didn't need to say I placed it on the
didn't need to say I placed it on the ground but he sort of went out of his
ground but he sort of went out of his way to say essentially hey I didn't bury
way to say essentially hey I didn't bury it just in a way that sort of raised
it just in a way that sort of raised eyebrow why is he doing that I mean he
eyebrow why is he doing that I mean he didn't say he didn't say very much
didn't say he didn't say very much uh between June 6th and his passing but
uh between June 6th and his passing but I believe twice he said,
I believe twice he said, you know, hello everyone. I just placed
you know, hello everyone. I just placed it on the ground. So, there's that. And
it on the ground. So, there's that. And now we have
now we have I mean I um maybe this is happening or
I mean I um maybe this is happening or maybe I'm wrong, but I did think it was
maybe I'm wrong, but I did think it was interesting that um
interesting that um Jack didn't need to tell people about
Jack didn't need to tell people about explicit permission, but he kept saying
explicit permission, but he kept saying to many different people, hey, by the
to many different people, hey, by the way, I got explicit permission. I got
way, I got explicit permission. I got and now we're talking about it and
and now we're talking about it and everybody knows. So
everybody knows. So I think these things, you know, might be
I think these things, you know, might be kind of laying the ground
kind of laying the ground precedence.
precedence. Yeah. Although I did float this with
Yeah. Although I did float this with Justin. I was like, there's really no,
Justin. I was like, there's really no, you know, court of public opinion for
you know, court of public opinion for something like this, right? It's not
something like this, right? It's not like we're
like we're so I don't I don't really know, but I do
so I don't I don't really know, but I do know that people are thinking about this
know that people are thinking about this and it and it makes them, you know,
and it and it makes them, you know, makes them look at Yellowstone.
makes them look at Yellowstone. We are all leaning towards Yellowstone.
We are all leaning towards Yellowstone. Well, so combine all of this these land
Well, so combine all of this these land designations and, you know, the sanctity
designations and, you know, the sanctity of the land with the video clip that he
of the land with the video clip that he sends out about wheelbarrows.
I mean, what do you get from that? Wait, which video clip?
Wait, which video clip? Tell me you saw the clip.
Tell me you saw the clip. I don't know if I did. It's been crazy.
I don't know if I did. It's been crazy. You would know. You would know if you
You would know. You would know if you saw it. It's about wheelbarrows. It's
saw it. It's about wheelbarrows. It's about weird. Wait, the one that's
about weird. Wait, the one that's referenced in his video in his
referenced in his video in his in Fargo. It's a scene in Fargo.
in Fargo. It's a scene in Fargo. Fargo one where he says, you know, I
Fargo one where he says, you know, I love I always loved this where he talks
love I always loved this where he talks about
about the point of that. I don't know what
the point of that. I don't know what connection you're making, Justin. I
connection you're making, Justin. I don't know what connection you're
don't know what connection you're making. I I took it to simply mean that
making. I I took it to simply mean that you you know, you can't see the forest
you you know, you can't see the forest for the trees. You can't you can't see
for the trees. You can't you can't see what's right in front of you.
what's right in front of you. It's obvious,
It's obvious, right? You can't see the obvious. Yeah.
right? You can't see the obvious. Yeah. Right. And so you read the memoir as a
Right. And so you read the memoir as a memoir. You you talk about these land
memoir. You you talk about these land designations
designations and you know what would make sense and
and you know what would make sense and what wouldn't
what wouldn't you know it's like it it strongly hints
you know it's like it it strongly hints towards Yellowstone in many ways. I I
towards Yellowstone in many ways. I I it's hard to ignore that.
it's hard to ignore that. Yeah. Uh speaking of clips, he also um
Yeah. Uh speaking of clips, he also um pointed everyone to a TED talk. Did
pointed everyone to a TED talk. Did y'all watch that? I haven't seen that
y'all watch that? I haven't seen that one, but I think it's actually one that
one, but I think it's actually one that I have saved in my list. I think I've
I have saved in my list. I think I've actually watched it before. Have you
actually watched it before. Have you watched it?
watched it? Yes. Well, what's interesting is that
Yes. Well, what's interesting is that the person who's giving this TED talk um
the person who's giving this TED talk um as an illustration pulls out a dowsing
as an illustration pulls out a dowsing rod or or is that what it's called? Or
rod or or is that what it's called? Or like finding spirits or whatever. And I
like finding spirits or whatever. And I immediately
immediately Cynthia has used that in one of her
Cynthia has used that in one of her videos by the way. Just just saying
videos by the way. Just just saying she did. Yes.
she did. Yes. I spoke to forest spirit using those.
I spoke to forest spirit using those. Exactly. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly. So, what did you think of that video,
So, what did you think of that video, Matt?
Matt? The TED talk or
The TED talk or Yeah, the TED talk.
Yeah, the TED talk. Oh, well, it was good. I mean, it was
Oh, well, it was good. I mean, it was kind of um
kind of um he his I I love his video. I mean,
he his I I love his video. I mean, yeah.
yeah. We're not just talking about um an
We're not just talking about um an intelligent,
intelligent, intuitive searcher. I mean, I want to
intuitive searcher. I mean, I want to listen to folks like that, but no, we're
listen to folks like that, but no, we're talking about we're talking about the
talking about we're talking about the person who found it. So, we're we're
person who found it. So, we're we're traveling back in time.
traveling back in time. He knew the general area and he was, you
He knew the general area and he was, you know, he was getting closer and closer
know, he was getting closer and closer and now we get to, you know,
and now we get to, you know, and he knew it right away
and he knew it right away to get his thinking. I mean, he answered
to get his thinking. I mean, he answered so many questions.
so many questions. If you've ever wondered
If you've ever wondered where we should go on the imagination
where we should go on the imagination logic continuum, that video tells you.
logic continuum, that video tells you. I could see that.
I could see that. And I mean, so many things are answered
And I mean, so many things are answered in that in that um cognitive bias video.
in that in that um cognitive bias video. It's it's really excellent. Um he his
It's it's really excellent. Um he his interest is not I I could go on and on.
interest is not I I could go on and on. his interest is not in um you know
his interest is not in um you know arguing for a geographic location or
arguing for a geographic location or against a geographic location, but there
against a geographic location, but there is a little bit in there where he is
is a little bit in there where he is kind of um not really anti- New Mexico,
kind of um not really anti- New Mexico, but kind of he I guess he kind of shoots
but kind of he I guess he kind of shoots down a common argument that is made for
down a common argument that is made for New Mexico.
New Mexico. Yes. The only point I bring the only
Yes. The only point I bring the only reason I bring it up is because it it
reason I bring it up is because it it it's part of a uh cohesive
it's part of a uh cohesive uh story that there's veracity here, you
uh story that there's veracity here, you know, as we look at something from 2019
know, as we look at something from 2019 because people are coming up with all
because people are coming up with all kind of conspiracies forest tapped this
kind of conspiracies forest tapped this guy or whatever like
guy or whatever like of course.
of course. Okay. But so anyway, there's I think
Okay. But so anyway, there's I think there's lots of good stuff in there.
there's lots of good stuff in there. It's it's science-based. It's the best
It's it's science-based. It's the best explanation I heard about uh
explanation I heard about uh confirmation bias and um and it's just
confirmation bias and um and it's just it's just fun. It's it's really good.
it's just fun. It's it's really good. It's very well done.
It's very well done. I'll make sure to put a link in the
I'll make sure to put a link in the description.
description. I mean, think about the timeline for
I mean, think about the timeline for that video. I hope I'm not like blowing
that video. I hope I'm not like blowing all your content for your video that
all your content for your video that you're creating.
you're creating. About half of it.
About half of it. This is my video.
This is my video. Can we talk about Can we talk about the
Can we talk about Can we talk about the fact that
fact that this is my video
this is my video that your your video is upcoming? I
that your your video is upcoming? I mean, I know there are people like me
mean, I know there are people like me who just love your videos.
who just love your videos. I mean,
I mean, videos are phenomenal.
videos are phenomenal. I was just I was just going to kind of
I was just I was just going to kind of synthesize, look at the material,
synthesize, look at the material, illustrate some some things, talk about
illustrate some some things, talk about connections, and just sort of create a
connections, and just sort of create a space for people to talk or whatever.
space for people to talk or whatever. But, um,
But, um, so if anyone is unfamiliar at this
so if anyone is unfamiliar at this point, um, Matt is
point, um, Matt is I'm retired.
I'm retired. Cynthia wants out of retirement. Cynthy,
Cynthia wants out of retirement. Cynthy, I I have to say I'm really grateful that
I I have to say I'm really grateful that Cynthia pushed you to doing this because
Cynthia pushed you to doing this because I so appreciate your analysis of Forest
I so appreciate your analysis of Forest and Forest loved your analysis. I mean,
and Forest loved your analysis. I mean, honestly, I was surprised that Forest
honestly, I was surprised that Forest didn't ask you to do his audio
didn't ask you to do his audio autobiography
autobiography because your analysis of Forest was so
because your analysis of Forest was so spot-on and so beautifully done. It's so
spot-on and so beautifully done. It's so anyone who's not familiar, Matt is
anyone who's not familiar, Matt is Smelled the Sunshine on YouTube and he's
Smelled the Sunshine on YouTube and he's the one who did these, you know, very
the one who did these, you know, very PBS style um Ken Burn style videos. No,
PBS style um Ken Burn style videos. No, don't shake your head. And and the like
don't shake your head. And and the like the audio is excellent, too. I'm just
the audio is excellent, too. I'm just like, my god, that is amazing narrative.
like, my god, that is amazing narrative. So, um so he will be doing uh he's
So, um so he will be doing uh he's putting together right now. Who knows
putting together right now. Who knows when it will come out. No pressure, but
when it will come out. No pressure, but Cynthia Cynthia was like, "Do a video.
Cynthia Cynthia was like, "Do a video. Do a video." And um so a video will be
Do a video." And um so a video will be coming out on his channel, Smell the
coming out on his channel, Smell the Sunshine, about some of the stuff that's
Sunshine, about some of the stuff that's been coming out with Jack.
been coming out with Jack. And I'm sorry to plug you and embarrass
And I'm sorry to plug you and embarrass you, but I I just I always appreciated
you, but I I just I always appreciated your analysis because it was so it was
your analysis because it was so it was spot-on. Forest himself loved it. You
spot-on. Forest himself loved it. You know, who is this guy? Wait, do you know
know, who is this guy? Wait, do you know anyone know who this guy is? Who is this
anyone know who this guy is? Who is this guy who's produced this video that just
guy who's produced this video that just is so spot-on? And um I'm guessing that
is so spot-on? And um I'm guessing that Jack watched your videos, too. Did Did
Jack watched your videos, too. Did Did you ever let him know who you were when
you ever let him know who you were when you emailed him?
you emailed him? Uh no. No.
Uh no. No. You know, it's hard to it's hard to
You know, it's hard to it's hard to gauge. Um
gauge. Um it
it you should have been like I'm kind of a
you should have been like I'm kind of a big deal. Just so you know,
big deal. Just so you know, just just so you know, I'm I'm kind of a
just just so you know, I'm I'm kind of a big deal.
big deal. He's kind of a big deal.
He's kind of a big deal. Yes, of course.
Yes, of course. And you know, we I mean YouTube is one
And you know, we I mean YouTube is one thing and Facebook is kind of its own
thing and Facebook is kind of its own little thing and there are some people I
little thing and there are some people I think who are still in the forums and so
think who are still in the forums and so there are some little enclaves.
there are some little enclaves. What's interesting is that um
What's interesting is that um you know Jack Jack was not an outsider.
you know Jack Jack was not an outsider. That's another thing about the cognitive
That's another thing about the cognitive bias video. You listen to that,
bias video. You listen to that, he he mentions AGK right at the top.
he he mentions AGK right at the top. He knows all the lingo.
He knows all the lingo. He was supposed to be on AGK. I mean,
He was supposed to be on AGK. I mean, I'm like, "Oh my god, what would
I'm like, "Oh my god, what would So, um, anyway, yeah, and that would
So, um, anyway, yeah, and that would have been interesting if he had I guess
have been interesting if he had I guess he was booked and he was cancelled. What
he was booked and he was cancelled. What if he had gone on there and it had it
if he had gone on there and it had it would have been a success. Toby would
would have been a success. Toby would have loved him. Uh, Shelley would have
have loved him. Uh, Shelley would have loved him. He It would have been a great
loved him. He It would have been a great show.
show. Yes.
Yes. So, what what does that mean? Would he
So, what what does that mean? Would he have become more active and we would
have become more active and we would have known him and he would have made
have known him and he would have made more videos? And
more videos? And that was one of my questions.
that was one of my questions. Reality where he's more involved in the
Reality where he's more involved in the community, you know,
community, you know, right? Because he did attempt to be more
right? Because he did attempt to be more involved and it just didn't work out.
involved and it just didn't work out. He said he's like, "Hey guys, this is my
He said he's like, "Hey guys, this is my first video." So, you get the idea that
first video." So, you get the idea that he's going to make more.
he's going to make more. And he left it up, you know, he left
And he left it up, you know, he left that video up after he knew. Like, I
that video up after he knew. Like, I know there's options to scrub your
know there's options to scrub your information um from the internet before
information um from the internet before something like this happens, right? Um I
something like this happens, right? Um I I know there was it was done before, but
I know there was it was done before, but I won't go into that, but anyway. Um you
I won't go into that, but anyway. Um you know, but he decided to leave that video
know, but he decided to leave that video up and post the video that he had of the
up and post the video that he had of the uncut interview for Outside magazine.
uncut interview for Outside magazine. Um which I, you know, I guess it's it's
Um which I, you know, I guess it's it's so crazy to be in a position where
so crazy to be in a position where so many people are like, "We're never
so many people are like, "We're never going to know anything ever, right?" And
going to know anything ever, right?" And we're like trying to trying to face
we're like trying to trying to face that. It's like, okay, I spent whatever
that. It's like, okay, I spent whatever years of my life devoted to this. I
years of my life devoted to this. I spent whatever time, whatever money, and
spent whatever time, whatever money, and I'm never going to know anything more,
I'm never going to know anything more, right? And then all of a sudden, we have
right? And then all of a sudden, we have a finder. And he's answering emails.
a finder. And he's answering emails. It's like, it's kind of mind-blowing.
It's like, it's kind of mind-blowing. And he's answering emails to so many
And he's answering emails to so many people. Um, you know, I know that for
people. Um, you know, I know that for anyone watching, I know that KPro has a
anyone watching, I know that KPro has a lot of these emails that she's been uh
lot of these emails that she's been uh accumulating as far as like so that way
accumulating as far as like so that way everyone can eventually know. We have
everyone can eventually know. We have hint of riches and then I'm sure she's
hint of riches and then I'm sure she's going to be live on Monday to share a
going to be live on Monday to share a lot of this stuff. And so we've got um
lot of this stuff. And so we've got um all this information that's a little bit
all this information that's a little bit scattered, which of course we all hate.
scattered, which of course we all hate. You know, we all hate that it's
You know, we all hate that it's scattered. We're just like, "No, no, no.
scattered. We're just like, "No, no, no. It's got to be in one place." But we're
It's got to be in one place." But we're like doing our best. were like, "Okay,
like doing our best. were like, "Okay, okay. Let's try and accumulate this and
okay. Let's try and accumulate this and and and try and have it in one place."
and and try and have it in one place." And um and so many things are actually
And um and so many things are actually being answered and and obviously a lot
being answered and and obviously a lot of them are are making us say, "Okay, if
of them are are making us say, "Okay, if that then what about this?" Like I know
that then what about this?" Like I know I'm I'm just dying to know about the
I'm I'm just dying to know about the blaze. It's like damn it, right? So,
blaze. It's like damn it, right? So, like why not answer, you know, if the
like why not answer, you know, if the blaze was damaged or destroyed, if we
blaze was damaged or destroyed, if we try and solve it now, what chance do we
try and solve it now, what chance do we have of actually knowing if we solved
have of actually knowing if we solved it? If the blaze is a physical object in
it? If the blaze is a physical object in the field that tells us we found the
the field that tells us we found the right spot
right spot if it's damaged or destroyed, how do we
if it's damaged or destroyed, how do we know if we have the right spot if we
know if we have the right spot if we keep searching?
keep searching? Yeah, that's one of the things that
Yeah, that's one of the things that really bothers me is that, you know, I
really bothers me is that, you know, I think the the messaging that I'm getting
think the the messaging that I'm getting for Jack, from Jack, and again, I'm
for Jack, from Jack, and again, I'm paraphrasing, but as I understand it,
paraphrasing, but as I understand it, it's it's something to the effect of,
it's it's something to the effect of, well, you'll know when you're there. You
well, you'll know when you're there. You know, it's it's a special place. Like
know, it's it's a special place. Like things will line up and you'll know. And
things will line up and you'll know. And that's a lot of faith.
that's a lot of faith. You know, the thing about that is it's
You know, the thing about that is it's like it goes both ways. like, you know,
like it goes both ways. like, you know, for someone who has very early on in the
for someone who has very early on in the search honed in on a particular area and
search honed in on a particular area and an area that happened to be correct,
an area that happened to be correct, right? You you didn't have a lot of lot
right? You you didn't have a lot of lot of breadth of searches or areas to
of breadth of searches or areas to really say, you know, like what speaks
really say, you know, like what speaks to forest and what doesn't because you
to forest and what doesn't because you nailed it. Bravo. You nailed it straight
nailed it. Bravo. You nailed it straight away. But
away. But nailed it. I guarantee that if you spend
nailed it. I guarantee that if you spend enough time and you look enough places,
enough time and you look enough places, you will find other places that speak
you will find other places that speak that feel funny uh and and seem poetic,
that feel funny uh and and seem poetic, almost too poetic.
almost too poetic. And so I fit perfectly.
And so I fit perfectly. Yeah. I I I maintain that it's not
Yeah. I I I maintain that it's not reasonable to say that well, you'll know
reasonable to say that well, you'll know when you're there.
when you're there. I guess I just don't agree. Um because
I guess I just don't agree. Um because I've seen some of those places that are
I've seen some of those places that are that line up
that line up just perfectly and and you'd think how
just perfectly and and you'd think how could it not be here like this I mean
could it not be here like this I mean how could it really how could this not
how could it really how could this not be the place
be the place and it wasn't so I I guess I maintain
and it wasn't so I I guess I maintain that we need more
that we need more like something else has to give in order
like something else has to give in order for us to have
for us to have that utmost confidence and that kind of
that utmost confidence and that kind of goes back to the comment earlier where I
goes back to the comment earlier where I was talking about there are folks that
was talking about there are folks that would like to actually discover this on
would like to actually discover this on their own
their own it would be wonderful to have that
it would be wonderful to have that opportunity and And I think the only way
opportunity and And I think the only way you're going to have that opportunity is
you're going to have that opportunity is if there is something there
if there is something there that you can validate and say, "Yes,
that you can validate and say, "Yes, I did it." Like, "This is the spot."
I did it." Like, "This is the spot." I mean, if if he could leave a trinket
I mean, if if he could leave a trinket behind, if he could mention something in
behind, if he could mention something in the area that,
the area that, you know, wouldn't give it away at all,
you know, wouldn't give it away at all, but when you're there, you'd see it and
but when you're there, you'd see it and go, "Okay,
go, "Okay, we got it.
we got it. This is it. You know, we we nailed it."
This is it. You know, we we nailed it." Something to that effect would be beyond
Something to that effect would be beyond helpful. I I for one would would really
helpful. I I for one would would really appreciate that. I felt, you know, it
appreciate that. I felt, you know, it was funny because I had actually emailed
was funny because I had actually emailed him and I blamed Forest for this. Forest
him and I blamed Forest for this. Forest always teased me because he said I
always teased me because he said I wasn't
wasn't risky enough, adventurous enough, you
risky enough, adventurous enough, you know, he always teased me because he was
know, he always teased me because he was just like, you know, it's like you play
just like, you know, it's like you play it safe too much, right? And so I
it safe too much, right? And so I actually emailed um Jack a list of a
actually emailed um Jack a list of a whole bunch of questions uh dealing with
whole bunch of questions uh dealing with how do we know 100% if we're going to
how do we know 100% if we're going to still keep searching for this? Is there
still keep searching for this? Is there any way to possibly know and stuff like
any way to possibly know and stuff like that? And I'm like, shoot. And he's
that? And I'm like, shoot. And he's like, he he was very sweet. I mean, he's
like, he he was very sweet. I mean, he's been extremely tolerant as far as how
been extremely tolerant as far as how many questions he's been ask or
many questions he's been ask or answering. And he's like, maybe just
answering. And he's like, maybe just five questions. And I'm just like I'm
five questions. And I'm just like I'm like, right, right. I'm sorry, but I had
like, right, right. I'm sorry, but I had to take the risk. You know, you know, I
to take the risk. You know, you know, I I'm I'm never out on the edge. And so I
I'm I'm never out on the edge. And so I did. And and it was really hard
did. And and it was really hard narrowing narrowing down five questions
narrowing narrowing down five questions to ask when it has to do with this kind
to ask when it has to do with this kind of stuff because I'm like, you know, if
of stuff because I'm like, you know, if the blaze is damaged and and um and
the blaze is damaged and and um and stupidly I I mean I meant to do five and
stupidly I I mean I meant to do five and as I reread the email I did six, but you
as I reread the email I did six, but you know, granted it's been a rough week and
know, granted it's been a rough week and a half, so I do want I do want a little
a half, so I do want I do want a little break on that. But um one of the
break on that. But um one of the questions he didn't answer was that
questions he didn't answer was that sick, you know, was that question in
sick, you know, was that question in between about the blaze? Because I'm
between about the blaze? Because I'm like, if we're going to keep searching,
like, if we're going to keep searching, there has to be something that will
there has to be something that will allow us to know for sure if we found
allow us to know for sure if we found the spot other than, oo, this is
the spot other than, oo, this is definitely it,
definitely it, you know, because everyone found a spot
you know, because everyone found a spot that they knew 100% sure this was it.
that they knew 100% sure this was it. You know, I I I mean, I've I've received
You know, I I I mean, I've I've received so many emails and I've tried to respond
so many emails and I've tried to respond to all of them and I know I haven't
to all of them and I know I haven't responded to all of them about people
responded to all of them about people who said obviously I've solved it
who said obviously I've solved it because it can't be anything else and
because it can't be anything else and they're 100% convinced and and Jack
they're 100% convinced and and Jack happened to be right about his area,
happened to be right about his area, right? And he said he had what was it?
right? And he said he had what was it? You know, I mean, it was how soon after
You know, I mean, it was how soon after he had bought the thrill of the chase,
he had bought the thrill of the chase, he had already had his search area,
he had already had his search area, right? That leads me back to the people
right? That leads me back to the people who had um gotten within 500 to 200 feet
who had um gotten within 500 to 200 feet without completely solving it, but just
without completely solving it, but just doing the geographical thing, right?
doing the geographical thing, right? Like pairing things up. This goes with
Like pairing things up. This goes with this. This goes with this. So, this
this. This goes with this. So, this might be the area, and I'm going to
might be the area, and I'm going to search the heck out of it.
search the heck out of it. Yep.
Yep. I mean,
I mean, yeah. I mean, I I maintain that the I
yeah. I mean, I I maintain that the I don't think it's I don't think it's that
don't think it's I don't think it's that damned hard, you know. You know,
damned hard, you know. You know, more than several people within two
more than several people within two years.
years. Yeah. Within two years, people had
Yeah. Within two years, people had become had come within 200 feet of the
become had come within 200 feet of the treasure. Within two years, people had
treasure. Within two years, people had done that without technically solving
done that without technically solving it. they had come within 200 feet of the
it. they had come within 200 feet of the treasure, you know, by just matching it
treasure, you know, by just matching it up geographically.
up geographically. So, obviously, you can get a search area
So, obviously, you can get a search area pretty fast that way and then just
pretty fast that way and then just search the crap out of it. But then, if
search the crap out of it. But then, if the blaze is damaged or destroyed, how
the blaze is damaged or destroyed, how are you ever going to know if you have
are you ever going to know if you have the right nook?
the right nook? That's right. That's the problem, I
That's right. That's the problem, I think, is it? And let me clarify that. I
think, is it? And let me clarify that. I mean, it is hard. Don't get me Don't get
mean, it is hard. Don't get me Don't get me wrong. It was It's clearly very
me wrong. It was It's clearly very challenging. I guess what I meant was
challenging. I guess what I meant was the starting location I don't think is
the starting location I don't think is that hard. You know, more than several
that hard. You know, more than several people continue to get the first two
people continue to get the first two clues correct. We've got people coming
clues correct. We've got people coming within a couple hundred feet of this,
within a couple hundred feet of this, but they didn't know they had
but they didn't know they had significance of it.
significance of it. Yeah. And they're missing something. So,
Yeah. And they're missing something. So, what that that tells me is that these
what that that tells me is that these first two clues weren't that hard. And
first two clues weren't that hard. And he says they get progressively easier,
he says they get progressively easier, but clearly they didn't because folks
but clearly they didn't because folks went right on past that third clue and
went right on past that third clue and didn't notice it. Right. I mean,
didn't notice it. Right. I mean, that's a that's another quote from the
that's a that's another quote from the um from the raw footage video. Cynthia,
um from the raw footage video. Cynthia, do you have that committed to memory
do you have that committed to memory yet?
yet? The one from outside magazine.
The one from outside magazine. You have to basically you have to have
You have to basically you have to have the first clue and then he said after
the first clue and then he said after that it's academic.
that it's academic. Academic academic academic
Academic academic academic sorry
sorry quoted the one which didn't get a lot of
quoted the one which didn't get a lot of attention. Um, the progressively easier
attention. Um, the progressively easier quotation. I always thought that people
quotation. I always thought that people should quote that more often.
should quote that more often. Yes, it gets progressively Oh, sorry.
Yes, it gets progressively Oh, sorry. I'm totally too excited.
I'm totally too excited. That's fine. But in that raw footage
That's fine. But in that raw footage video, he's he kind of has a different
video, he's he kind of has a different take on it. You need to you need to have
take on it. You need to you need to have the first clue. You got to know where to
the first clue. You got to know where to start and then after that it's academic.
start and then after that it's academic. Really?
Really? Okay. So, what I want to know, Matt, so
Okay. So, what I want to know, Matt, so what is your interpretation of academic?
what is your interpretation of academic? Because for me it had to do with not
Because for me it had to do with not boots on the ground, but that's, you
boots on the ground, but that's, you know, open to interpretation.
know, open to interpretation. Oh, no. That's I mean that expression I
Oh, no. That's I mean that expression I think um
think um it's um not quite a foregone conclusion,
it's um not quite a foregone conclusion, but it's straightforward.
but it's straightforward. Somebody should look it up. But isn't it
Somebody should look it up. But isn't it some something along those lines?
some something along those lines? So academic meaning it's obvious.
So academic meaning it's obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Straightforward. It's it's
Yeah. Yeah. Straightforward. It's it's clear
clear and it's like everything it's like
and it's like everything it's like everything hanging on that one thing.
everything hanging on that one thing. Now
Now we have we have in this in this not so
we have we have in this in this not so vast body of literature from Jack
vast body of literature from Jack a clear picture is emerging.
a clear picture is emerging. Yes.
Yes. And you'll have a difficult time uh
And you'll have a difficult time uh finding Jack saying that what you need
finding Jack saying that what you need to do is solve that first clue and then
to do is solve that first clue and then yada yada. That wasn't him at his MO.
yada yada. That wasn't him at his MO. Good.
Good. It was final resting place,
It was final resting place, right?
right? Slip ups,
Slip ups, you know, and then like know the man
you know, and then like know the man close reading of a text
close reading of a text and he had it within like two weeks.
and he had it within like two weeks. The blaze figures in more prominently in
The blaze figures in more prominently in his method than the first clue. It's
his method than the first clue. It's I mean it it has appeared now in a
I mean it it has appeared now in a number of places and it's so consistent
number of places and it's so consistent you know
you know flipups final resting place blaze
flipups final resting place blaze I I think we have you know the big
I I think we have you know the big pieces of of you know what led him
pieces of of you know what led him there.
there. Do you think it's solvable from that if
Do you think it's solvable from that if we incorporate Yellowstone as being the
we incorporate Yellowstone as being the area?
area? Well, I'd have to I'd have to just tell
Well, I'd have to I'd have to just tell you what my thinking is. And I don't
you what my thinking is. And I don't think Justin wants me to.
think Justin wants me to. I I never said that. I just think that
I I never said that. I just think that um you want to save something for your
um you want to save something for your video, right? I mean,
video, right? I mean, I wasn't going to put that in my video.
I wasn't going to put that in my video. Oh, okay.
Oh, okay. I mean,
I mean, okay, you're killing me. Please say
okay, you're killing me. Please say please. you know,
please. you know, um the the finder
um the the finder Justin,
Justin, we've we've all been wrong except for
we've we've all been wrong except for one person.
one person. Except for one person.
Except for one person. This one person
This one person um
um has told us um
has told us um uh I've lost my train of thought. I He
uh I've lost my train of thought. I He told us a lot of things in the cognitive
told us a lot of things in the cognitive bias video. Justin doesn't want me to
bias video. Justin doesn't want me to give this away. What's wrong with you?
give this away. What's wrong with you? Wait, it's okay if Justin doesn't
Wait, it's okay if Justin doesn't Justin. Yes or no? I mean, if it's no,
Justin. Yes or no? I mean, if it's no, it's okay. It's fine. It's fine.
it's okay. It's fine. It's fine. I mean, you know what is
I mean, you know what is Okay.
Okay. The game's over, guys. I mean, there's
The game's over, guys. I mean, there's no chess there. So, it's like, you know,
no chess there. So, it's like, you know, it it I don't I Go for it, Matt. How's
it it I don't I Go for it, Matt. How's that?
that? Okay. I just say he said um he said the
Okay. I just say he said um he said the the biggest the biggest hint or the best
the biggest the biggest hint or the best advice I can't remember exactly that
advice I can't remember exactly that Forest ever gave us was
Forest ever gave us was read the book normally.
read the book normally. Yes.
Yes. And it's like those damn wheelbarls.
And it's like those damn wheelbarls. It's just like what? He puts out one
It's just like what? He puts out one video and it's about the way the brain
video and it's about the way the brain works. What?
works. What? But it's so simple. It's so
But it's so simple. It's so straightforward. And now he says,
straightforward. And now he says, "Here's the most important thing that
"Here's the most important thing that Forest ever said, and everybody's
Forest ever said, and everybody's hanging on the edge of their seats. Read
hanging on the edge of their seats. Read the book normally."
the book normally." And what does he say in the book? He
And what does he say in the book? He So, I was thinking about that. I was
So, I was thinking about that. I was thinking, this is what I got all excited
thinking, this is what I got all excited about the other day.
about the other day. I I think if you take that at face
I I think if you take that at face value, that that's the most that's the
value, that that's the most that's the best piece of advice Forest ever gave.
best piece of advice Forest ever gave. Read the book normally.
Read the book normally. Well, then the and if you just read it
Well, then the and if you just read it as a memoir, the the memoir tells you
as a memoir, the the memoir tells you where he wants to die.
where he wants to die. There's a whole chapter on it.
There's a whole chapter on it. There's a whole chapter on where this
There's a whole chapter on where this man wants to die.
man wants to die. Yeah.
Yeah. It's not a big mystery. I mean,
It's not a big mystery. I mean, he wants to go back.
he wants to go back. It's right there in the book.
It's right there in the book. It's right in the book. If you read it
It's right in the book. If you read it normally, just like a memoir, you close
normally, just like a memoir, you close the thing and somebody says, "Where does
the thing and somebody says, "Where does this guy want to die?" He wants to die
this guy want to die?" He wants to die in Yellowstone. He wants to die along a
in Yellowstone. He wants to die along a stream
stream in some trees where he used to fish as a
in some trees where he used to fish as a kid. There's a whole chapter on it.
kid. There's a whole chapter on it. Now, does that narrow it down to three
Now, does that narrow it down to three football fields? I don't know.
football fields? I don't know. Well, so if you take that a step further
Well, so if you take that a step further and you say, "Look, there's a whole
and you say, "Look, there's a whole chapter on this, right? I mean, we all
chapter on this, right? I mean, we all know it's flywater." Like, I mean, he
know it's flywater." Like, I mean, he when he closes his tackle box for the
when he closes his tackle box for the last time, right? Now then he mentions,
last time, right? Now then he mentions, oh well you should look back at some of
oh well you should look back at some of the previous articles.
the previous articles. He does know
He does know that because he tells us to do that.
that because he tells us to do that. He talks about the substitution of
He talks about the substitution of words.
words. Let's let's take that a step further.
Let's let's take that a step further. Let's look at Flywater,
Let's look at Flywater, okay?
okay? And we'll look at the excer excerpts
And we'll look at the excer excerpts from Flywater that came before the
from Flywater that came before the actual memoir
actual memoir and the differences in the articles that
and the differences in the articles that were released. And at first I thought,
were released. And at first I thought, well, maybe that's a slip up, but again,
well, maybe that's a slip up, but again, he says that these were things that
he says that these were things that people didn't notice, but everybody
people didn't notice, but everybody noticed that the fire hole was removed.
noticed that the fire hole was removed. I mean, that was one of the first things
I mean, that was one of the first things I did. You know, you find that you find
I did. You know, you find that you find these articles and you're like, there's
these articles and you're like, there's uh some key differences.
uh some key differences. But I think the Firehole, the Madison,
But I think the Firehole, the Madison, the Yellowstone, these are wheelbarrows.
the Yellowstone, these are wheelbarrows. Ah,
Ah, it's just so obvious.
it's just so obvious. You're killing me. That's the trouble.
You're killing me. That's the trouble. Like
Like you lots of people obviously tons of
you lots of people obviously tons of people have searched the Madison. Tons
people have searched the Madison. Tons of people fire hole. They they they've
of people fire hole. They they they've torn that canyon apart.
torn that canyon apart. I mean I I I feel like I grid searched
I mean I I I feel like I grid searched that entire canyon from top to bottom.
that entire canyon from top to bottom. And obviously I'm empty-handed. So what
And obviously I'm empty-handed. So what is everyone missing? That's the starting
is everyone missing? That's the starting location.
location. It may very well be that is the starting
It may very well be that is the starting location. So
location. So slip ups.
slip ups. Slip ups and blaze. And there's a hint
Slip ups and blaze. And there's a hint about what the blaze is in the book.
about what the blaze is in the book. Yeah, apparently he did say that there's
Yeah, apparently he did say that there's a hint about the blaze, but the blaze
a hint about the blaze, but the blaze has been damaged or destroyed. That's
has been damaged or destroyed. That's what bugged me is in that. Let's see
what bugged me is in that. Let's see here if I can bring it up. When he says
here if I can bring it up. When he says that the blaze has been damaged or
that the blaze has been damaged or destroyed, let's see here.
the blaze could have been damaged knowing that knowing what I knew about
knowing that knowing what I knew about the that location and to try to find
the that location and to try to find that but I didn't feel my chances were
that but I didn't feel my chances were good.
good. So if you look at the history
So if you look at the history of events that have occurred
of events that have occurred Yes.
Yes. in let's say
in let's say Firehole Canyon over the last 10 years.
Firehole Canyon over the last 10 years. Yes.
Yes. What sort of geographic alterations?
What sort of geographic alterations? Yes.
Yes. Have happened.
Have happened. Yes.
Yes. Anybody? Anybody?
Anybody? Anybody? Have you researched this? I'm assuming.
Have you researched this? I'm assuming. Well, we had fire, but that was
Well, we had fire, but that was somebody just in another side car.
I don't know where it's at. I mean, that's
that's Have you looked into that? Have you
Have you looked into that? Have you looked into what has been damaged in
looked into what has been damaged in that area?
that area? Well, sure I have. Yeah.
Well, sure I have. Yeah. Okay. What have you got? Come on. Don't
Okay. What have you got? Come on. Don't kill us.
There was there was one time driving through the park years ago where
driving through the park years ago where I went to go into Firehole Canyon,
I went to go into Firehole Canyon, okay,
okay, during the summer, but Firehole Canyon
during the summer, but Firehole Canyon Drive was closed
Drive was closed and it was closed for a specific reason.
and it was closed for a specific reason. So, it all I'm saying is it might might
So, it all I'm saying is it might might be worthwhile to kind of look at what's
be worthwhile to kind of look at what's what's been going on in the canyon the
what's been going on in the canyon the last decade. What nature-wise in
last decade. What nature-wise in Yellowstone could have damaged and
Yellowstone could have damaged and destroyed anything?
destroyed anything? Sure.
Sure. That might be a blaze.
That might be a blaze. Is that what you're saying?
Is that what you're saying? Could be.
Could be. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, it's
Sorry, Matt laughing makes me laugh. Any guess is good as another. I mean,
Any guess is good as another. I mean, you know, I I don't know.
you know, I I don't know. Right. Okay. I'm going to try and get
Right. Okay. I'm going to try and get Okay, I'm going to scroll real quick
Okay, I'm going to scroll real quick because I know a lot of people have been
because I know a lot of people have been putting at Amy Seeks. I'm going to
putting at Amy Seeks. I'm going to scroll up. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. says,
scroll up. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. says, "When you read Flywater normally, you
"When you read Flywater normally, you may notice what you think is a typo."
may notice what you think is a typo." Wink. Okay. All right. All right. Um,
Wink. Okay. All right. All right. Um, Dee Oh, de. That's like what chickies
Dee Oh, de. That's like what chickies That's the call of a chickity. Dee.
That's the call of a chickity. Dee. Okay. Sorry. Geeking out with the
Okay. Sorry. Geeking out with the biology. Um Amy seeks, you correctly
biology. Um Amy seeks, you correctly perceive that Jack did not solve the
perceive that Jack did not solve the poem. He can claim to be the finder, but
poem. He can claim to be the finder, but he definitely does not know the meaning
he definitely does not know the meaning of all nine clues that need to be
of all nine clues that need to be followed precisely to and then it stops.
followed precisely to and then it stops. Let me just speak to that. Let me just
Let me just speak to that. Let me just speak to that because I said that he
speak to that because I said that he talked about the blaze. I didn't mean to
talked about the blaze. I didn't mean to imply that he he knew what the blaze was
imply that he he knew what the blaze was and nothing else because later on he
and nothing else because later on he says that he had solved all nine clues.
says that he had solved all nine clues. Um, there was one that sitting with
Um, there was one that sitting with Forest, Forest gave him additional
Forest, Forest gave him additional insight about what it meant or the
insight about what it meant or the significance of it, but
significance of it, but Oh, that's right.
Oh, that's right. As Jack worked this thing out, he he he
As Jack worked this thing out, he he he solved he solved the thing,
solved he solved the thing, but he may he may have kind of gone
but he may he may have kind of gone about it in a way that wasn't just, you
about it in a way that wasn't just, you know, ABC so forth.
know, ABC so forth. So, do you think that Jack solved it the
So, do you think that Jack solved it the way that Forest had hoped it had it
way that Forest had hoped it had it would be solved?
I don't know. I think so, personally. Um, but you
I think so, personally. Um, but you know, it's just it's just a hunch. But
know, it's just it's just a hunch. But keep in mind that this this whole nine
keep in mind that this this whole nine clues thing isn't setting well with me
clues thing isn't setting well with me because Jack keeps saying that folks are
because Jack keeps saying that folks are Forest might have almost done a
Forest might have almost done a disservice by saying there are these
disservice by saying there are these nine exact clues that need to be solved.
nine exact clues that need to be solved. The trick is to look at this as a whole,
The trick is to look at this as a whole, you know, a big picture item. And Forest
you know, a big picture item. And Forest has said things to that effect over the
has said things to that effect over the years as well. You know, look at the big
years as well. You know, look at the big picture. There's no shortcuts here. What
picture. There's no shortcuts here. What if you just ignore there has to be nine
if you just ignore there has to be nine clues and you just look at this
clues and you just look at this holistically?
holistically? Does that help?
Well, we know from the raw footage video that sometimes Forest would
that sometimes Forest would being silly.
being silly. He wouldn't sell the steak. he would
He wouldn't sell the steak. he would sell the sizzle and he sold the chase,
sell the sizzle and he sold the chase, right? And he gave that director what he
right? And he gave that director what he wanted
wanted and
and we know for sure. Yeah. I was shocked
we know for sure. Yeah. I was shocked in the unedited murder.
in the unedited murder. Yeah. In the unedited outside magazine
Yeah. In the unedited outside magazine video, he said they basically told him,
video, he said they basically told him, "We're looking for something for you to
"We're looking for something for you to say this." And Forest is like, "Okay."
say this." And Forest is like, "Okay." Yeah. He fed him a line and Forest kind
Yeah. He fed him a line and Forest kind of reinterpreted that. Um,
of reinterpreted that. Um, but he was he was he was selling the
but he was he was he was selling the chicks. He was in sales. He knew how to
chicks. He was in sales. He knew how to do that.
do that. He did. My grandpa was like that. I
He did. My grandpa was like that. I remember.
remember. So maybe he found that when he talked
So maybe he found that when he talked about nine clues that people could get
about nine clues that people could get their teeth into that rather than
their teeth into that rather than saying, "Hey, want to read a poem?" I
saying, "Hey, want to read a poem?" I don't know.
don't know. I got this really awesome poem. It's
I got this really awesome poem. It's like so cool and you're gonna love it.
like so cool and you're gonna love it. It's like really cool. I mean I
It's like really cool. I mean I yeah I don't know what to say about that
yeah I don't know what to say about that where he mitigates the significance of
where he mitigates the significance of nine clues and says that it's we need to
nine clues and says that it's we need to think about it more as just a flowing
think about it more as just a flowing narrative or whatever. It's it's
narrative or whatever. It's it's interesting language. I don't know.
interesting language. I don't know. I mean we we know it's a journey that
I mean we we know it's a journey that Forest took. It's sites that he saw
Forest took. It's sites that he saw along the way. It is
along the way. It is he does experience that he had
he does experience that he had and now we combine that with everything
and now we combine that with everything else we know now. We know that it's
else we know now. We know that it's wheelbarrows. We know that it's obvious
wheelbarrows. We know that it's obvious or more obvious than a lot of folks have
or more obvious than a lot of folks have made it. Myself included probably.
made it. Myself included probably. And
And um and we're looking at the big picture
um and we're looking at the big picture here. Look, we all know let's just let's
here. Look, we all know let's just let's just let's just yeah, let's just say
just let's just yeah, let's just say we'll leave the numbers aside and we'll
we'll leave the numbers aside and we'll say
say let's let's state what we think is the
let's let's state what we think is the obvious. Forest wanted to die in
obvious. Forest wanted to die in Yellowstone.
Yellowstone. Okay. Okay. So, you look at this poem,
Okay. Okay. So, you look at this poem, you say, "Well,
you say, "Well, we're we're going where these waters
we're we're going where these waters warm waters are.
warm waters are. We're going down a canyon." Like, well,
We're going down a canyon." Like, well, which canyon? Like, which warm water is?
which canyon? Like, which warm water is? I mean, holistically, if you look at it
I mean, holistically, if you look at it the big picture, well, Yellowstone is
the big picture, well, Yellowstone is where warm waters hold, right? So,
where warm waters hold, right? So, you're in Yellowstone, you're going down
you're in Yellowstone, you're going down into a canyon. Well, what canyon?
into a canyon. Well, what canyon? I mean, you look at the memoir for
I mean, you look at the memoir for clues. What sort of canyons is he
clues. What sort of canyons is he referring to? What sort of places is he
referring to? What sort of places is he talking about? I mean, places like
talking about? I mean, places like Madison Canyon, places like Fire Hole
Madison Canyon, places like Fire Hole Canyon, the you know, those are fairly
Canyon, the you know, those are fairly obvious, I think, in the memoir, you
obvious, I think, in the memoir, you know, and and and
know, and and and as Forest mentioned, like, you know, you
as Forest mentioned, like, you know, you people are getting these first two clues
people are getting these first two clues correct. It's not that hard. Like, more
correct. It's not that hard. Like, more than several people are getting this
than several people are getting this right. It's the obvious. I really think
right. It's the obvious. I really think it is. And
it is. And the obvious obvious, how does it last a
the obvious obvious, how does it last a 100red to a thousand years? if it's
100red to a thousand years? if it's obvious
obvious and and you do the work about somebody
and and you do the work about somebody who did the work.
who did the work. I agree that there there there has to be
I agree that there there there has to be work involved here. And the problem, I
work involved here. And the problem, I think, is going beyond those first two
think, is going beyond those first two clues.
clues. He's gone from the obvious to I think
He's gone from the obvious to I think the exceedingly obscure in a matter of
the exceedingly obscure in a matter of one clue.
one clue.
Not far, but too far to walk put him below Homer Brown. I I wouldn't be
below Homer Brown. I I wouldn't be surprised if that's obscure as hell. And
surprised if that's obscure as hell. And that's that's the mental gap here. And
that's that's the mental gap here. And if you are a if you're hard-headed,
if you are a if you're hard-headed, let's say Jack's a hard-headed guy,
let's say Jack's a hard-headed guy, right? He reads this thing and he's
right? He reads this thing and he's like, "Look, I'm of course in Firehole
like, "Look, I'm of course in Firehole Canyon."
Canyon." Sure.
Sure. That description. Yes. Yes.
That description. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, he he says it's the obvious.
Okay. Well, he he says it's the obvious. It's in Fire Hole Canyon. And he's just
It's in Fire Hole Canyon. And he's just tenacious. He's like, "I'm not going to
tenacious. He's like, "I'm not going to accept anything else because all the
accept anything else because all the clues are pointing here. It's it seems
clues are pointing here. It's it seems as obvious as it can get. So, let's keep
as obvious as it can get. So, let's keep going with it." And perhaps if you dwell
going with it." And perhaps if you dwell on that long enough and you have the
on that long enough and you have the right journalistic capabilities, you can
right journalistic capabilities, you can figure out what that mental gap is and
figure out what that mental gap is and and bridge it. I don't know
and bridge it. I don't know what was So what I guess um sorry that's
what was So what I guess um sorry that's not what I wanted to share.
not what I wanted to share. Oh my gosh. Your browsing history.
Oh my gosh. Your browsing history. Oh. Oh, the porn. Oh no.
Yeah, my browsing history is pretty damn boring. It's like, oh, puzzles and
boring. It's like, oh, puzzles and science. Yay.
science. Yay. Kind of boring. I was looking for
Kind of boring. I was looking for something I could nail you on.
something I could nail you on. I know. I feel bad for people who try
I know. I feel bad for people who try and do that because they they're like,
and do that because they they're like, "Wow, Amy is really into science."
"Wow, Amy is really into science." Like, it's extremely boring. I do want
Like, it's extremely boring. I do want to make sure. Okay, let me scroll real
to make sure. Okay, let me scroll real quick. Um Um There were a couple people
quick. Um Um There were a couple people who said, "Please ask this." Um let's
who said, "Please ask this." Um let's see. Billy Shaw says, "Uh, we'll know
see. Billy Shaw says, "Uh, we'll know because the stick will be there."
because the stick will be there." yeah. I'm a sticker,
yeah. I'm a sticker, not a nooker. Which honestly sounds
not a nooker. Which honestly sounds weird. Um, but I'm a sticker.
weird. Um, but I'm a sticker. Stickers versus the nookers.
Stickers versus the nookers. The Nookers.
The Nookers. Oh, no. I can't scroll up. Oh, shoot.
Oh, no. I can't scroll up. Oh, shoot. I'm so sorry. The chat's Wow, the chat
I'm so sorry. The chat's Wow, the chat is kicking. 160 people watching. Hi,
is kicking. 160 people watching. Hi, everybody. Okay, okay, okay. Um, some
everybody. Okay, okay, okay. Um, some people had asked some questions.
people had asked some questions. Somebody said, "Please ask Justin if
Somebody said, "Please ask Justin if he's watched my videos."
he's watched my videos." Very important was the name of the
Very important was the name of the person. So, I don't know if you've
person. So, I don't know if you've watched his videos or not. And I'm sorry
watched his videos or not. And I'm sorry if you could re ask those questions. My
if you could re ask those questions. My chat, the way it works is you scroll
chat, the way it works is you scroll through chat and it stops at some point
through chat and it stops at some point and and you know, it it no longer
and and you know, it it no longer scrolls. So, apparently it's a a a
scrolls. So, apparently it's a a a popular hangout for Sunday night. Um, so
popular hangout for Sunday night. Um, so really
really I don't think I've seen the videos by
I don't think I've seen the videos by the way. So, you know, feel free to
the way. So, you know, feel free to email me the link. I'm I'm not clear on
email me the link. I'm I'm not clear on where to find them off hand. So,
where to find them off hand. So, okay. Very important. Go ahead and uh um
okay. Very important. Go ahead and uh um wait, how do I I know you I know you
wait, how do I I know you I know you have very mistakenly given your email
have very mistakenly given your email out on other shows.
out on other shows. Oh, it's fine. Um so, two things. One is
Oh, it's fine. Um so, two things. One is that I have a huge backlog of emails, so
that I have a huge backlog of emails, so I apologize in advance. You know, if
I apologize in advance. You know, if it's
it's I know it's hard to keep up. I feel so
I know it's hard to keep up. I feel so bad.
bad. Um but yeah, so the email No, it's fine.
Um but yeah, so the email No, it's fine. I don't I don't mind. Uh, so the email
I don't I don't mind. Uh, so the email address is email chaosgmail.com.
address is email chaosgmail.com. That's ch haos. Feel free to
That's ch haos. Feel free to email me the video links.
email me the video links. Feel free to harass him at will. Yeah,
I don't I I'm I'm thinking about this thing you said, Justin, or you kind of
thing you said, Justin, or you kind of suggested this idea that we can look at
suggested this idea that we can look at this that, you know, Jack was um just
this that, you know, Jack was um just like every other searcher.
like every other searcher. They're all very confident. Oh, I've got
They're all very confident. Oh, I've got this thing figured out.
this thing figured out. Yes.
Yes. But but Jack just got lucky,
But but Jack just got lucky, right?
right? He's got a trump card. He's got he's got
He's got a trump card. He's got he's got that chest and
that chest and the ultimate trump card.
the ultimate trump card. And you know that going back to the
And you know that going back to the cognitive bias video in that section on
cognitive bias video in that section on Darwin, he talks about he he talks about
Darwin, he talks about he he talks about compat combating each one. What can you
compat combating each one. What can you do about these biases
do about these biases that hamper us? and he talks about, you
that hamper us? and he talks about, you know, being critical, taking criticism,
know, being critical, taking criticism, evaluating,
evaluating, being willing to change your mind.
being willing to change your mind. Um, one of the most interesting things
Um, one of the most interesting things he says is that, um, and this goes back
he says is that, um, and this goes back to that TED video, uh, TED talk video
to that TED video, uh, TED talk video with wheelbarls.
with wheelbarls. Uh, no, not
Uh, no, not no, that's a different one, right?
no, that's a different one, right? Sorry.
Sorry. That we are, human beings are um pattern
That we are, human beings are um pattern detecting creatures. Our brains are um
detecting creatures. Our brains are um by function,
by function, right? Just you don't have to uh say,
right? Just you don't have to uh say, "Hey, I'm going to go open this memoir
"Hey, I'm going to go open this memoir and look for connections and patterns."
and look for connections and patterns." Correct?
Correct? We already do that. In fact, uh we see
We already do that. In fact, uh we see them. We we do it so well. We do it and
them. We we do it so well. We do it and we see connections where there aren't
we see connections where there aren't connections.
connections. So, we have to ride the brakes on this.
So, we have to ride the brakes on this. What's the term of that again? Um
What's the term of that again? Um epophenia.
epophenia. Thank you. There's a scientific term
Thank you. There's a scientific term cloud
cloud and say, "Hey, you know, tonight I'm
and say, "Hey, you know, tonight I'm going to work on this. I've got two
going to work on this. I've got two hours. I'm going to look for
hours. I'm going to look for connections." No, no, no, no, no. Just
connections." No, no, no, no, no. Just the opposite. You should never do that.
the opposite. You should never do that. You You should And this is the thing he
You You should And this is the thing he said. He said, "I always considered it a
said. He said, "I always considered it a coincidence
coincidence unless
unless evidence came along and confirmed it."
evidence came along and confirmed it." And the big thing for him was intent. if
And the big thing for him was intent. if he was able to find forests intent in
he was able to find forests intent in creating this. Otherwise, it was always
creating this. Otherwise, it was always ruled a coincidence.
ruled a coincidence. The data
The data reading the memoir and just ruling all
reading the memoir and just ruling all patterns and connections out unless you
patterns and connections out unless you could say, "No, I'm finding
could say, "No, I'm finding authoral I'm finding an intent from the
authoral I'm finding an intent from the author. This this is this is a good
author. This this is this is a good one."
one." Yeah.
Yeah. Right. That's huge about his
Right. That's huge about his methodology. That's huge.
methodology. That's huge. That's the scientific method. The data
That's the scientific method. The data has to drive the theory, not the theory
has to drive the theory, not the theory driving the data.
driving the data. Yeah. I mean, don't read the book
Yeah. I mean, don't read the book looking for clues.
looking for clues. Read the book as a book, just like
Read the book as a book, just like Matt's saying, as a memoir and as Jack's
Matt's saying, as a memoir and as Jack's saying. And
saying. And and
and you know, when think about it in terms
you know, when think about it in terms of what his special place is like that,
of what his special place is like that, is it really that straightforward?
is it really that straightforward? Maybe.
Maybe. Okay, a really quick question from the
Okay, a really quick question from the chat. How many of you think that he
chat. How many of you think that he solved it the way Forest wanted it to be
solved it the way Forest wanted it to be solved as far as knowing Forest? Right.
solved as far as knowing Forest? Right. So, we we're getting this Oh, shut up,
So, we we're getting this Oh, shut up, Justin. Justin, shut up. I'm muting
Justin. Justin, shut up. I'm muting Justin from now on.
Justin from now on. Sorry.
Sorry. [Laughter]
[Laughter] Let us know like you know. So, um,
Let us know like you know. So, um, okay. No, stop. I'm sorry. I can't,
okay. No, stop. I'm sorry. I can't, Justin.
Justin. I got to get a refill. I'll be right
I got to get a refill. I'll be right back.
Okay, Cynthia, go. So, you know, I don't think Forest had
So, you know, I don't think Forest had an issue with however Jack solved it in
an issue with however Jack solved it in the original art. article written by the
the original art. article written by the finder, he said Forest called him a
finder, he said Forest called him a genius. So whether or not did Forest
genius. So whether or not did Forest care, he didn't I don't think he hid the
care, he didn't I don't think he hid the treasure chest because he wanted us to
treasure chest because he wanted us to crack his poem. That was just a vehicle
crack his poem. That was just a vehicle for him to deliver information so that
for him to deliver information so that we could find the treasure chest.
we could find the treasure chest. whether or not Jack found it because he
whether or not Jack found it because he got all nine clues in order where he
got all nine clues in order where he figured out where he wanted to die and
figured out where he wanted to die and then as Jack is walking from WW down the
then as Jack is walking from WW down the canyon or driving or whatever he did,
canyon or driving or whatever he did, right?
right? And then it's like he maybe almost
And then it's like he maybe almost reverse engineered it or or just got the
reverse engineered it or or just got the confirmation of the thoughts he had in
confirmation of the thoughts he had in his head.
his head. I just don't see Forest caring one way
I just don't see Forest caring one way or the other. The whole thing Forest did
or the other. The whole thing Forest did was hide the treasure chest so it could
was hide the treasure chest so it could be found. whether or not we interpreted
be found. whether or not we interpreted the clues right I I don't think he
the clues right I I don't think he what about spending so this is I guess
what about spending so this is I guess one thing that bugs me a lot is that one
one thing that bugs me a lot is that one thing I've learned from knowing forest
thing I've learned from knowing forest is that he had an ego right he had an
is that he had an ego right he had an ego he spent 15 years crafting something
ego he spent 15 years crafting something that he was somewhat confident was going
that he was somewhat confident was going to take a very very very long time to
to take a very very very long time to solve now obviously that depended on how
solve now obviously that depended on how many people were going to be working on
many people were going to be working on it. But if you have the ego, if you
it. But if you have the ego, if you spent 15 years crafting something,
spent 15 years crafting something, how is it possible that you're okay with
how is it possible that you're okay with that cleverness to never be known?
Yeah, you you would think that Forest would have encouraged
would have encouraged Jack to reveal the solution to show how
Jack to reveal the solution to show how clever Forest was. Is that what you're
clever Forest was. Is that what you're getting at?
getting at? Sort of. Yes. Yeah. Because I mean the
Sort of. Yes. Yeah. Because I mean the number of times I would ask Forest,
number of times I would ask Forest, how can you handle all this attention?
how can you handle all this attention? Right? Like how can you handle all of
Right? Like how can you handle all of this stuff happening? And um and I told
this stuff happening? And um and I told Jack this because I was like, you know,
Jack this because I was like, you know, obviously Jack has the right to know
obviously Jack has the right to know this kind of stuff. But you know, he
this kind of stuff. But you know, he would respond, I like people, and then
would respond, I like people, and then he would lean in and wink and say, "And
he would lean in and wink and say, "And maybe I'd like the attention a little
maybe I'd like the attention a little bit too,
bit too, right?" So I mean, and and then he had
right?" So I mean, and and then he had this ins insecurity complex with his
this ins insecurity complex with his father being this intelligent math
father being this intelligent math teacher, principal person.
teacher, principal person. And I just psychologically speaking,
And I just psychologically speaking, I find it hard to believe that Forest is
I find it hard to believe that Forest is okay
okay with um with nobody knowing this 15-year
with um with nobody knowing this 15-year solution being so clever, but The Finder
solution being so clever, but The Finder says not clever, not puzzly. And I just
says not clever, not puzzly. And I just I have a really hard time with that. I
I have a really hard time with that. I guess
guess I always thought he would want to talk
I always thought he would want to talk about it just because
about it just because Forest was a talker. He liked stories
Forest was a talker. He liked stories and now he's got a good one,
and now he's got a good one, you know.
you know. Yeah. Um, but you're right, Jack didn't
Yeah. Um, but you're right, Jack didn't think that Forest
think that Forest created this thing to kind of um,
created this thing to kind of um, you know, with with a flourish to show
you know, with with a flourish to show his brilliance like
his brilliance like a little bit of the ego of like my dad
a little bit of the ego of like my dad would be proud of me for producing this
would be proud of me for producing this thing.
thing. Yeah. He he he didn't think that that
Yeah. He he he didn't think that that was part of it though,
was part of it though, right? Yeah. I have a hard time with
right? Yeah. I have a hard time with that. Psychologically speaking, it just
that. Psychologically speaking, it just with the time I've spent with Forest, it
with the time I've spent with Forest, it just seems so more probable that Forest
just seems so more probable that Forest came up with something that his dad
came up with something that his dad would have been proud of clever-wise
would have been proud of clever-wise and and that's the opposite of what
and and that's the opposite of what we're getting from The Finder. He's
we're getting from The Finder. He's like, "That wasn't it." You know, it's
like, "That wasn't it." You know, it's not puzzly. I just that's the part that
not puzzly. I just that's the part that I have the hardest time with. Um and
I have the hardest time with. Um and Horus kept telling us to simplify. It
Horus kept telling us to simplify. It was straightforward. There was no
was straightforward. There was no subuge. I don't think
subuge. I don't think it it was
it it was I think he I I guess he imagined it
I think he I I guess he imagined it would not be found in his lifetime,
but he was so confident in that until 2018.
he was so confident in that until 2018. Yeah.
What produces that kind of confidence? you know, he says, uh, someone who's
you know, he says, uh, someone who's going to do the work, that kind of
going to do the work, that kind of stuff. And real quick, I know I'm sorry
stuff. And real quick, I know I'm sorry for chat, so I will answer a few. So DD
for chat, so I will answer a few. So DD says, Amy seeks, why is Jack's only pick
says, Amy seeks, why is Jack's only pick of the chess such an unflattering and
of the chess such an unflattering and jumbled display totally at odds with
jumbled display totally at odds with what Forest promised to bedazzle the
what Forest promised to bedazzle the finder? I'm guessing you're speaking to
finder? I'm guessing you're speaking to like the original post of what the chest
like the original post of what the chest looked like.
looked like. Here's a quick survey. How many of you
Here's a quick survey. How many of you in the chat? 118 of you. Hi everybody.
in the chat? 118 of you. Hi everybody. What's up? Happy Sunday. Um, how many of
What's up? Happy Sunday. Um, how many of you saw the picture of the chest, the
you saw the picture of the chest, the open chest, and was like, "Wait, where's
open chest, and was like, "Wait, where's the other stuff or were you like were
the other stuff or were you like were you were you satisfied with what you saw
you were you satisfied with what you saw or were you expecting more?" Um, Billy
or were you expecting more?" Um, Billy Shaw Jr. I saw that Willilitude made a
Shaw Jr. I saw that Willilitude made a great point that perhaps the spot has
great point that perhaps the spot has some tragedy associated with it and
some tragedy associated with it and that's why we why he didn't want it to
that's why we why he didn't want it to be there. Um,
be there. Um, that's interesting. Do you think it's a
that's interesting. Do you think it's a tragic spot or do you think it's a
tragic spot or do you think it's a emotionally important positive spot?
emotionally important positive spot? So, we know the spot is we I mean it's
So, we know the spot is we I mean it's clear the spot was extremely
clear the spot was extremely right deeply ingrained in Forest's
right deeply ingrained in Forest's psyche.
psyche. Was it fishing? Was it I know. Okay, I'm
Was it fishing? Was it I know. Okay, I'm gonna say it. Prepare yourselves. I've
gonna say it. Prepare yourselves. I've had enough to drink. Was it
had enough to drink. Was it an emotional moment with someone? Okay,
an emotional moment with someone? Okay, that's as far as
that's as far as elegant way of putting it.
elegant way of putting it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, we
Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, we know that this spot was extremely
know that this spot was extremely important to Forest in some way. Was it
important to Forest in some way. Was it emotional? Was it psychological? What,
emotional? Was it psychological? What, you know, what was it that
you know, what was it that made this spot so incredibly important?
made this spot so incredibly important? And what was it that that Jack thinks
And what was it that that Jack thinks that we're going to go there and say,
that we're going to go there and say, "This is so Forest." Because like we
"This is so Forest." Because like we talked about before, we're like, "How do
talked about before, we're like, "How do we know 100%." cuz I would love like we
we know 100%." cuz I would love like we talked about before on a Zoom, right?
talked about before on a Zoom, right? Looking for the stick, looking bending
Looking for the stick, looking bending bending over,
bending over, you know, just looking for that stick
you know, just looking for that stick because at this point it is the only
because at this point it is the only thing that we have
thing that we have that we have a picture of that we can
that we have a picture of that we can verify,
verify, right? We have nothing else at the spot
right? We have nothing else at the spot that tells us for sure you have the
that tells us for sure you have the right spot. And if we continue to search
right spot. And if we continue to search for it,
for it, what do we have that says yes, you got
what do we have that says yes, you got it right?
it right? That's where I'm torn. I I really want
That's where I'm torn. I I really want to keep working on it. But if I don't
to keep working on it. But if I don't have 98%
have 98% sure, right, that this is the spot, how
sure, right, that this is the spot, how do I justify the time I'm looking for
do I justify the time I'm looking for it?
it? And that's that's the balance to be
And that's that's the balance to be struck. you know, it's clear that he
struck. you know, it's clear that he doesn't want to divulge the location,
doesn't want to divulge the location, but for those that want to keep
but for those that want to keep searching and and potentially find it,
searching and and potentially find it, I I mean, maybe maybe it's unreasonable
I I mean, maybe maybe it's unreasonable for me to say this, but I think I think
for me to say this, but I think I think that's only fair. Um,
that's only fair. Um, you know, it's there are folks out there
you know, it's there are folks out there who don't have the same closure that he
who don't have the same closure that he has, and I'm hoping I'm hoping there's
has, and I'm hoping I'm hoping there's enough empathy involved where he can
enough empathy involved where he can extend that. Um, but also not release
extend that. Um, but also not release the location, you know? I mean, I think
the location, you know? I mean, I think he can do both.
he can do both. How do you How do you think that's Oh,
How do you How do you think that's Oh, go ahead, Matt. Sorry.
go ahead, Matt. Sorry. Oh, by by leaving something there
Oh, by by leaving something there or
or by allowing us to email him and say,
by allowing us to email him and say, "Hey, here's where I was at. Is that
"Hey, here's where I was at. Is that right?" You could say yes or no. I mean,
right?" You could say yes or no. I mean, I don't think he'd want to field all
I don't think he'd want to field all those emails over the years. would seem
those emails over the years. would seem more pregnant.
more pregnant. If you confirm it for one, you've
If you confirm it for one, you've confirmed it for all of his or her
confirmed it for all of his or her Facebook friends and all of their family
Facebook friends and all of their family and then it spreads from there and then
and then it spreads from there and then everybody knows in about 72 hours
everybody knows in about 72 hours everybody knows.
everybody knows. And that's that's the trick. So,
And that's that's the trick. So, it's up to each person that finds a spot
it's up to each person that finds a spot how they want to handle that, right? I
how they want to handle that, right? I mean, they could choose to release it to
mean, they could choose to release it to the world in no time flat, or they could
the world in no time flat, or they could very quietly say, "Okay, I'm I have my
very quietly say, "Okay, I'm I have my closure." And move on. And
closure." And move on. And I don't
I don't That's like the ultimate, isn't it?
That's like the ultimate, isn't it? It is, but people get closure in
It is, but people get closure in different ways. You know, and and Matt,
different ways. You know, and and Matt, you have an excellent point that all it
you have an excellent point that all it takes is one person to find it who feels
takes is one person to find it who feels compelled to me mention it to others and
compelled to me mention it to others and very quickly it's common knowledge. So
very quickly it's common knowledge. So that that's totally valid. I get it.
that that's totally valid. I get it. So what if Jack releases
So what if Jack releases the word that is key? Do you guys then
the word that is key? Do you guys then believe that I just got permission I can
believe that I just got permission I can say this. Um does that mean then that
say this. Um does that mean then that Sorry, I have to go pass out. I'll be
Sorry, I have to go pass out. I'll be right back.
right back. No, I just asked and she said no. So um
No, I just asked and she said no. So um thank you. That was very sweet by the
thank you. That was very sweet by the way for that person. Oops, I just lost
way for that person. Oops, I just lost my iPad.
my iPad. So when when Jack comes out when Jack
So when when Jack comes out when Jack comes forward and tells us what the word
comes forward and tells us what the word that is key is,
that is key is, maybe that will help answer some of the
maybe that will help answer some of the discussion that we're having tonight. Or
discussion that we're having tonight. Or maybe it's going to be so vague we're
maybe it's going to be so vague we're all going to say WPF. You know, now we
all going to say WPF. You know, now we know it, but so what? What where does
know it, but so what? What where does that get us? But at least we know pro
that get us? But at least we know pro I'm pretty sure that um this is
I'm pretty sure that um this is something that Jack's gonna tell us. So
something that Jack's gonna tell us. So I think that'll be helpful.
I think that'll be helpful. I think you were on the right track. My
I think you were on the right track. My money is on the word comes out and we
money is on the word comes out and we all go what?
all go what? Except
Except except for the few people who think they
except for the few people who think they already know what it means.
already know what it means. You know, even though they might have
You know, even though they might have their own personal interpretations or,
their own personal interpretations or, you know, takes on it. But I think a lot
you know, takes on it. But I think a lot of us will be like, "What?"
of us will be like, "What?" Okay.
Okay. Well, you you you could very well be
Well, you you you could very well be right. I mean, if it's not my word that
right. I mean, if it's not my word that is key, it's probably a good thing
is key, it's probably a good thing because my word that is key obviously
because my word that is key obviously didn't work for me.
didn't work for me. Say that the key word is is to
Say that the key word is is to o everyone give their keyword
o everyone give their keyword and wo
and wo All right, Cynthia. Cynthia, what's your
All right, Cynthia. Cynthia, what's your key word?
key word? I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. Go. Mine was go.
Go. Mine was go. Go. All right, Justin, what's your
Go. All right, Justin, what's your keyword?
keyword? Well, you know, there's a lot of
Well, you know, there's a lot of candidates. Give me a minute to think
candidates. Give me a minute to think what you guys You guys go ahead.
what you guys You guys go ahead. Okay. All right, Matt, you're next.
Okay. All right, Matt, you're next. What's your keyword?
What's your keyword? Wheelbarrel.
Wheelbarrel. [Laughter]
I got I got that hidden stanza in the poem. I asked Jack to send that to me.
poem. I asked Jack to send that to me. There you go.
There you go. And I got I have four extra lines. So,
And I got I have four extra lines. So, that's something that's going to be on
that's something that's going to be on your video, right?
your video, right? Right. And it's hard to rhyme with fire
Right. And it's hard to rhyme with fire hole, but Forest did it. Okay. Oh, yeah.
hole, but Forest did it. Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, if if you address this in the video,
Oh, if if you address this in the video, Matt, then let's just wait and see the
Matt, then let's just wait and see the video and not
video and not I'm I'm kidding. No, I don't I don't
I'm I'm kidding. No, I don't I don't know. I'll add a keyword, but it was for
know. I'll add a keyword, but it was for a bad solve, so I give up my keyword.
a bad solve, so I give up my keyword. And I you know, maybe it is wheelbarrow.
And I you know, maybe it is wheelbarrow. Maybe it's blaze. Maybe that's the
Maybe it's blaze. Maybe that's the keyword. Maybe it's not Maybe it's not a
keyword. Maybe it's not Maybe it's not a key like we think that just unlocks
key like we think that just unlocks everything. Maybe it's
everything. Maybe it's that you get the blaze first. I don't
that you get the blaze first. I don't know. Who knows? He says every almost
know. Who knows? He says every almost every line has a word that's keyed. So,
every line has a word that's keyed. So, well, because you need more one starts
well, because you need more one starts the catalyst. That's the word cold, just
the catalyst. That's the word cold, just so you know. And then every other
so you know. And then every other keyword uh basically starts that same
keyword uh basically starts that same catalyst in using the poem with the book
catalyst in using the poem with the book to mine certain words to lead you to the
to mine certain words to lead you to the exact spot, creating an X on a map,
exact spot, creating an X on a map, which is the blaze.
which is the blaze. What am I hearing? Again,
What am I hearing? Again, all you need to do is watch my 18-hour
all you need to do is watch my 18-hour video that's firstly produced on my on
video that's firstly produced on my on what I thought might be the correct uh
what I thought might be the correct uh direction going.
direction going. It's coming out soon on a set of DVDs.
It's coming out soon on a set of DVDs. Uh Blu-ray if you prefer of Amy Seeks
Uh Blu-ray if you prefer of Amy Seeks The Solution exclamation mark
The Solution exclamation mark exclamation mark. That's a shout out to
exclamation mark. That's a shout out to Croc Cow
Croc Cow verified.
verified. So anyway, um I just want everybody to
So anyway, um I just want everybody to know so they don't think so the
know so they don't think so the conspiracy theories don't start. It was
conspiracy theories don't start. It was Jack told Mike Cow lasers that he will
Jack told Mike Cow lasers that he will release the word that is key. So
release the word that is key. So Oh, that's wonderful. So tune in to KPro
Oh, that's wonderful. So tune in to KPro and Cow,
and Cow, right?
right? So turn in tune in to KPro Cow, get them
So turn in tune in to KPro Cow, get them to 4,000 subscribers.
to 4,000 subscribers. I said I don't know. Yeah, Jack reached
I said I don't know. Yeah, Jack reached out to them that he's going to do it. I
out to them that he's going to do it. I don't know in what manner Jack is doing
don't know in what manner Jack is doing it, just that he is to release it, but
it, just that he is to release it, but and he told Mike, so Mike's the one that
and he told Mike, so Mike's the one that had the info.
had the info. Mike's busy solving the great US
Mike's busy solving the great US treasure hunt, but hopefully if he's
treasure hunt, but hopefully if he's listening, he can mention it in chat
listening, he can mention it in chat whether or not to watch on Monday. There
whether or not to watch on Monday. There you go.
you go. But yeah, I've heard rumors he's already
But yeah, I've heard rumors he's already solved it. So, you know,
solved it. So, you know, you have to know the beats per minute
you have to know the beats per minute for each song. Never mind. I don't want
for each song. Never mind. I don't want to Oh. Oh, we are. And that's the other
to Oh. Oh, we are. And that's the other thing for anyone who is tuning in who is
thing for anyone who is tuning in who is unfamiliar with the Greatest Treasure
unfamiliar with the Greatest Treasure Hunt. They released their first clue and
Hunt. They released their first clue and we all hate it. No one.
we all hate it. No one. We all have to go watch Elf.
It has been delightful and perplexing us. Um, I haven't had much chance to
us. Um, I haven't had much chance to work on it. I I really am planning on
work on it. I I really am planning on going over chapter 4. The hint is for
going over chapter 4. The hint is for chapter 4 in the great US treasure hunt.
chapter 4 in the great US treasure hunt. And um what does it say exactly?
And um what does it say exactly? You have a partner, Amy?
You have a partner, Amy? I do not have an official partner.
I do not have an official partner. What's great is that right now I'm
What's great is that right now I'm looking at Justin and Cynthia and they
looking at Justin and Cynthia and they can't be working on it. But my partner,
can't be working on it. But my partner, she's working really hard on it right
she's working really hard on it right now while I do this.
now while I do this. Is this the partner we saw yesterday,
Is this the partner we saw yesterday, Carrie? Yeah,
Carrie? Yeah, she's kicking booty.
she's kicking booty. She's probably got it solved.
She's probably got it solved. Way to multitask. So
Way to multitask. So yeah,
yeah, we're all But you guys can't be working
we're all But you guys can't be working on it.
on it. I'm totally working on it. Are you
I'm totally working on it. Are you kidding me? I've got like Wait, wait,
kidding me? I've got like Wait, wait, wait. Boom. Right there. There it is.
wait. Boom. Right there. There it is. Oh, do you see it? Do you see it?
Oh, do you see it? Do you see it? I've got two monitors here.
I've got two monitors here. I'm not paying attention to you guys at
I'm not paying attention to you guys at all. I'm just
all. I'm just You printed that out on your own, didn't
You printed that out on your own, didn't you?
you? I did, unfortunately. Um, this is one
I did, unfortunately. Um, this is one where I just took a bunch of screenshots
where I just took a bunch of screenshots and printed it out. Oh, look at that.
and printed it out. Oh, look at that. It's trying to get me to do other stuff.
It's trying to get me to do other stuff. Um, all right. So, going back to the
Um, all right. So, going back to the chat, um, Oki Tarman, year 3009, 10,00
chat, um, Oki Tarman, year 3009, 10,00 years, 3551, 37.02
years, 3551, 37.02 north. I have no idea what that means,
north. I have no idea what that means, Okaran. But that's really cool. Um,
Okaran. But that's really cool. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. Blaze was my keyword. My
Billy Shaw Jr. Blaze was my keyword. My keyword, by the way, is cold. And
keyword, by the way, is cold. And obviously, it's right.
obviously, it's right. Watch my first video. Okay. Okay. Um,
Watch my first video. Okay. Okay. Um, my my keyword, I'm going to throw it out
my my keyword, I'm going to throw it out there for for this. I
there for for this. I I mean, I've had a lot of keywords over
I mean, I've had a lot of keywords over the years, but I'll throw one out. I'll
the years, but I'll throw one out. I'll say it's end.
say it's end. End.
End. End.
End. End.
End. Okay.
Okay. Ent.
Ent. Nailed it.
Nailed it. Okay. All right. All right. Truck and
Okay. All right. All right. Truck and treasure. Amy seeks. How many of us want
treasure. Amy seeks. How many of us want just the solve and don't care where it
just the solve and don't care where it was?
was? That mean
That mean I think they kind of go together, right?
I think they kind of go together, right? Yeah, those are kind of
Yeah, those are kind of Okay. Billy Billy Shaw Jr. who on the
Okay. Billy Billy Shaw Jr. who on the panel would publicly reveal the spot if
panel would publicly reveal the spot if they had figured it out. I mean, we know
they had figured it out. I mean, we know Justin and Cynthia
Justin and Cynthia if I find it and it's I'm Yes. Hell, I
if I find it and it's I'm Yes. Hell, I already did one that was wrong. What's
already did one that was wrong. What's wrong with the second one that's wrong
wrong with the second one that's wrong or right?
or right? I would not I would not reveal it. Um
I would not I would not reveal it. Um Wait, what? But you revealed the GPS
Wait, what? But you revealed the GPS one.
one. I I I mean I was a guest on on you know
I I I mean I was a guest on on you know that expedition that Okay. That was
that expedition that Okay. That was Got it. Got it.
Got it. Got it. You know that wasn't my decision to
You know that wasn't my decision to make. Um
make. Um but right,
but right, you know, if it was just me. No, I don't
you know, if it was just me. No, I don't I don't think I would.
I don't think I would. Sorry.
Sorry. By the way, Justin's email is
By the way, Justin's email is Oh, okay. Let let me let me go back to
Oh, okay. Let let me let me go back to my general statement. I guess it would
my general statement. I guess it would depend on on on where it was. So So
depend on on on where it was. So So Operation Nook, that was just the place
Operation Nook, that was just the place in any forest.
in any forest. You know, a hundred thousand people can
You know, a hundred thousand people can walk through there and put beads or
walk through there and put beads or whatever. It's not going to ruin it.
whatever. It's not going to ruin it. There's really nothing there to ruin. If
There's really nothing there to ruin. If it's at some really um
it's at some really um That's true. It
That's true. It really like if it would be in a really
really like if it would be in a really delicate area around a hot spring or a
delicate area around a hot spring or a petetroglyph and and the boots on the
petetroglyph and and the boots on the ground are going to ruin it. Yeah. Then
ground are going to ruin it. Yeah. Then I agree. you you don't give it away. It
I agree. you you don't give it away. It I guess I shouldn't so quickly
I guess I shouldn't so quickly it would depend.
it would depend. That's fair.
That's fair. I totally understand that. It would
I totally understand that. It would if it's
if it's How about you guys, Matt,
How about you guys, Matt, Amy?
I I think I would want to tell the story. I think it's a good story. I
story. I think it's a good story. I think I'd want to write a book.
think I'd want to write a book. But could I be persuaded?
But could I be persuaded? You know, if Forest tried to persuade
You know, if Forest tried to persuade me, I think I could be persuaded to keep
me, I think I could be persuaded to keep quiet. Did that happen here? I don't
quiet. Did that happen here? I don't know.
know. So, if it was Forest decision to say,
So, if it was Forest decision to say, "Hey, please don't reveal the area."
"Hey, please don't reveal the area." You would say, you know, obviously it's
You would say, you know, obviously it's like you'd say, "I have to respect
like you'd say, "I have to respect that."
Do you think so? For me, a big thing is 10 years, 15 years, right? Like I'm
10 years, 15 years, right? Like I'm going to give it this much time
going to give it this much time and then I'm going to let you guys know
and then I'm going to let you guys know this information. Like for me, that
this information. Like for me, that seems like uh something that is very
seems like uh something that is very doable.
What do you guys think? Like is like like could the finder say could Jack say
like could the finder say could Jack say and hi Jack by the way. I know he's not
and hi Jack by the way. I know he's not watching because I didn't send him a
watching because I didn't send him a link or anything, but who knows when he
link or anything, but who knows when he might watch this
might watch this to say, "Hey, in in 1015 years, I'll go
to say, "Hey, in in 1015 years, I'll go ahead and reveal the spot." Right? At
ahead and reveal the spot." Right? At that point, only the hardcore people are
that point, only the hardcore people are going to be still listening, right?
going to be still listening, right? We'll be like six or seven years, right?
We'll be like six or seven years, right? Pretty much after the tax audit period
Pretty much after the tax audit period passes. Is that
passes. Is that Well, see, I am so unfamiliar with the
Well, see, I am so unfamiliar with the like the legalities of this. If it was
like the legalities of this. If it was in Yellowstone, how long would he have
in Yellowstone, how long would he have to wait to not risk penalties
to wait to not risk penalties financially?
Yeah, it's a tax audit period. I don't know what that would be is my guess. I I
know what that would be is my guess. I I mean, I don't know.
mean, I don't know. And Willitude says, "Do we think the
And Willitude says, "Do we think the chest was found Friday or Saturday?
chest was found Friday or Saturday? Wasn't Yellowstone closed on Friday?"
I don't remember. Friday. No. Uh, it was definitely he I mean
No. Uh, it was definitely he I mean Jack's already said he found it on
Jack's already said he found it on Friday. That's not I mean that's out
Friday. That's not I mean that's out there. And I was inside Yellowstone
there. And I was inside Yellowstone searching. I was actually in the
searching. I was actually in the Firehole Canyon area um the day after
Firehole Canyon area um the day after you could get in from Cody. I actually
you could get in from Cody. I actually stayed towards the end of May. It was
stayed towards the end of May. It was before Memorial Day, I believe, or or
before Memorial Day, I believe, or or right around that weekend. I know it was
right around that weekend. I know it was in May that I was actually inside the
in May that I was actually inside the park.
park. But but then the the north entrance and
But but then the the north entrance and west Yellowstone entrances were closed
west Yellowstone entrances were closed until what the
until what the till July,
till July, which is I don't know if that's a good
which is I don't know if that's a good uh does that help figure out the time
uh does that help figure out the time that it took Jack to drive that treasure
that it took Jack to drive that treasure chest to fence house? I don't know. But
chest to fence house? I don't know. But yeah, he he would have had to use the
yeah, he he would have had to use the Cody entrance or the Jackson entrance
Cody entrance or the Jackson entrance because the other three were closed
because the other three were closed until the 4th of July.
Okay. It's funny the parallels with AGK and and the hurricane closing down their
and and the hurricane closing down their trail. Justin's like,
if anyone is unfamiliar, A Gypsy's Kiss did a treasure hunt just recently that
did a treasure hunt just recently that was solved and many people had the
was solved and many people had the correct area and were waiting to go
correct area and were waiting to go there. and Justin and Cynthia, they were
there. and Justin and Cynthia, they were they were this close to leaving
they were this close to leaving to go find that one when it was found
to go find that one when it was found when it was found uh by the finder. And
when it was found uh by the finder. And by the way, the finder still has the
by the way, the finder still has the forest fen letter and they haven't
forest fen letter and they haven't opened it yet. Uh but they have said
opened it yet. Uh but they have said that when they do eventually open the
that when they do eventually open the forest fen letter that they will let me
forest fen letter that they will let me know um what it has in it. So uh so say
know um what it has in it. So uh so say stay tuned for that. Um let's see. DD
stay tuned for that. Um let's see. DD says for a fact contents of the chest
says for a fact contents of the chest were removed and replaced haphazardly
were removed and replaced haphazardly before that pick of the finders. Look
before that pick of the finders. Look look at and ask yourself if that is the
look at and ask yourself if that is the opulent display intended by forest. So
opulent display intended by forest. So you know like obviously I feel so bad.
you know like obviously I feel so bad. Oh there's a lot of Amy sakes. Sorry I'm
Oh there's a lot of Amy sakes. Sorry I'm trying to keep up. I feel really bad
trying to keep up. I feel really bad because my first reaction
because my first reaction to the image of the opened chest was
to the image of the opened chest was really
really and I'm like I'm like that is a terrible
and I'm like I'm like that is a terrible reaction because it's full of gold and
reaction because it's full of gold and all these wonderful things and here I am
all these wonderful things and here I am asking myself where's the gems? Where's
asking myself where's the gems? Where's the sparkle? Where's the boom? Right?
the sparkle? Where's the boom? Right? And I'm just like that is such a wrong
And I'm just like that is such a wrong reaction that I'm having. I felt bad
reaction that I'm having. I felt bad about it. Um, but I found out that so
about it. Um, but I found out that so many other people felt the same way just
many other people felt the same way just because, you know, the the Goonies
because, you know, the the Goonies feeling, that Goonies feeling of a chest
feeling, that Goonies feeling of a chest that you open up and there's gems and
that you open up and there's gems and everything sparkling and all that kind
everything sparkling and all that kind of stuff. And we had gold, which if
of stuff. And we had gold, which if anyone is familiar with dealing with
anyone is familiar with dealing with gold, gold is actually pretty dull. 100%
gold, gold is actually pretty dull. 100% like like 99 whatever% gold is actually
like like 99 whatever% gold is actually a very dull product, right? It sparkles
a very dull product, right? It sparkles and all that kind of stuff, but it's not
and all that kind of stuff, but it's not like a jam. It's gone. I mean, what what
like a jam. It's gone. I mean, what what were you guys' reaction when you saw the
were you guys' reaction when you saw the first picture of the open chest shortly
first picture of the open chest shortly after it it had been revealed, right? He
after it it had been revealed, right? He He's like, "This is just after I moved
He's like, "This is just after I moved it from its nook." Because we're I'm a
it from its nook." Because we're I'm a sticker. Those are nookers.
sticker. Those are nookers. What were you like? Were you guys super
What were you like? Were you guys super excited? What was your reaction?
excited? What was your reaction? No, I thought it was disappointing. I
No, I thought it was disappointing. I guess because it was dirty.
guess because it was dirty. It was dirty and there were baggies and
It was dirty and there were baggies and it wasn't all nice and shiny anymore,
it wasn't all nice and shiny anymore, you know, but um
you know, but um yeah, I mean, I wasn't so disappointed
yeah, I mean, I wasn't so disappointed that I thought, "Boy, I'm glad I didn't
that I thought, "Boy, I'm glad I didn't find it after all." I mean, it wasn't
find it after all." I mean, it wasn't like that extreme, but it was Yeah, I I
like that extreme, but it was Yeah, I I was surprised because it wasn't all new
was surprised because it wasn't all new and clean and shiny anymore.
and clean and shiny anymore. The um the thing about baggies
The um the thing about baggies um he mentioned in the raw footage
um he mentioned in the raw footage video, there's also a thing there where
video, there's also a thing there where he says, "I don't know what the life
he says, "I don't know what the life expectancy of a Ziploc bag is," or
expectancy of a Ziploc bag is," or something like that. And um I don't know
something like that. And um I don't know if those were spoken about at other
if those were spoken about at other times, the kind of the
times, the kind of the functionality of some of the elements in
functionality of some of the elements in there, the way he had, you know, put
there, the way he had, you know, put things up. But um
things up. But um the scissors.
the scissors. Yeah. I guess a lot of people were um a
Yeah. I guess a lot of people were um a lot of people were familiar with the um
lot of people were familiar with the um with the photograph that had those
with the photograph that had those enormous and and not real sapphires and
enormous and and not real sapphires and rubies.
rubies. um thinking that those would be in
um thinking that those would be in there. And um and Forest made it clear
there. And um and Forest made it clear that those things were not in there,
that those things were not in there, that he was just uh tinkering around
that he was just uh tinkering around with different iterations of this chest
with different iterations of this chest and taking photographs and thinking
and taking photographs and thinking about it. He had watches that he put in
about it. He had watches that he put in there and then removed.
there and then removed. He had a couple of $500 bills that he
He had a couple of $500 bills that he put in there and removed. Well, and you
put in there and removed. Well, and you were your channel did that full analysis
were your channel did that full analysis of the potential contents of the chest
of the potential contents of the chest and what they
and what they Yeah, that was the picture that was
Yeah, that was the picture that was really um astounding. But yeah, I mean
really um astounding. But yeah, I mean it was it was in need of a shower, you
it was it was in need of a shower, you know, it still a supermodel, but it it
know, it still a supermodel, but it it just woke up and it needs to take a
just woke up and it needs to take a shower and get some makeup and she's a
shower and get some makeup and she's a beauty. So, I don't know. I I thought I
beauty. So, I don't know. I I thought I I I thought it was great, but it was
I I thought it was great, but it was dirty. It it had been in the ground or
dirty. It it had been in the ground or near the ground for a decade. So, you
near the ground for a decade. So, you know, what do you expect?
know, what do you expect? Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm not quite
Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm not quite clear on, you know, what people were
clear on, you know, what people were expecting. I mean, like that, you know,
expecting. I mean, like that, you know, the real shiny quintessential chest. I
the real shiny quintessential chest. I mean,
mean, it's been in the dirt a decade. You
it's been in the dirt a decade. You know, it's like it's not an airtight
know, it's like it's not an airtight container. It's going to get dirty and
container. It's going to get dirty and groy. And I I think it it looked about
groy. And I I think it it looked about how I expected. Um, I guess I
how I expected. Um, I guess I anticipated a bit more patina, but
anticipated a bit more patina, but overall it looked about about how I
overall it looked about about how I expected. And that was kind of the
expected. And that was kind of the interesting part to me is like you look
interesting part to me is like you look at the stages of bronze and how pat over
at the stages of bronze and how pat over time you enter I I I like I color coded
time you enter I I I like I color coded them at some point and I was watching
them at some point and I was watching the years because over the years we were
the years because over the years we were going to enter from brown to green
going to enter from brown to green phase, right? It was going to start
phase, right? It was going to start entering that green. So, did you take
entering that green. So, did you take like samples of bronze and age them
like samples of bronze and age them outside to see how they would age or or
outside to see how they would age or or what are you talking about?
what are you talking about? Um, I mean I I tried to accelerate the
Um, I mean I I tried to accelerate the patina process myself just because of
patina process myself just because of the dog training thing, but that's
the dog training thing, but that's Yeah,
Yeah, mostly I had just been looking online to
mostly I had just been looking online to see like how how bronze patina over time
see like how how bronze patina over time and there's basically an age indicator
and there's basically an age indicator if it's been exposed to elements this
if it's been exposed to elements this number of years and it'll be generally
number of years and it'll be generally this color. And you know, I had told my
this color. And you know, I had told my buddy, I think it was last year, I said,
buddy, I think it was last year, I said, "We're just starting to enter the early
"We're just starting to enter the early stages of the green phase." So, wh
stages of the green phase." So, wh which buddy?
which buddy? Tyler.
Tyler. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm telling you, Tyler needs a reality
I'm telling you, Tyler needs a reality show.
show. He's doing something.
He's doing something. So, you know, we were at the very early
So, you know, we were at the very early stages of the of the green phase. You
stages of the of the green phase. You know, it reminds me of uh was it Twister
know, it reminds me of uh was it Twister where he says, "We're going green." You
where he says, "We're going green." You know, when he's looking at the sky. Um
know, when he's looking at the sky. Um yeah. Yeah. The stages of a material out
yeah. Yeah. The stages of a material out in a wilderness that's similar to
in a wilderness that's similar to something in the Rocky Mountains.
something in the Rocky Mountains. Yeah.
Yeah. Moisture, cold, heat, um all of those
Moisture, cold, heat, um all of those kinds of things.
kinds of things. So, you were surprised when you saw the
So, you were surprised when you saw the chest that it hadn't reached a certain
chest that it hadn't reached a certain stage.
stage. Um I I expected it to be a just a tad
Um I I expected it to be a just a tad bit more green than it was.
bit more green than it was. Yeah, just a tad.
Yeah, just a tad. Me, too.
Me, too. Yeah. Do you think it's do you think
Yeah. Do you think it's do you think there's any potential that it was buried
there's any potential that it was buried versus out out in a nook somewhere
versus out out in a nook somewhere that's intombed like we have, you know,
that's intombed like we have, you know, subultured uh septic, however you want
subultured uh septic, however you want to say that,
to say that, you know, and then we have pictures
you know, and then we have pictures after it was just recently removed from
after it was just recently removed from its nook and it really didn't have that
its nook and it really didn't have that same kind of aged look to it that I was
same kind of aged look to it that I was expecting.
expecting. Yeah. I I I mean, I don't know. I'm
Yeah. I I I mean, I don't know. I'm certainly no expert in the space, but if
certainly no expert in the space, but if I were to have to venture a guess, I
I were to have to venture a guess, I would say that
would say that it had some level of protection that,
it had some level of protection that, you know, maybe slowed the patina
you know, maybe slowed the patina process slightly. I don't know. It's
process slightly. I don't know. It's It's tough to say. Yeah.
It's tough to say. Yeah. Now, what would that be, though? Would
Now, what would that be, though? Would that be buried or would it be
that be buried or would it be subultured? Would it be um nooked?
subultured? Would it be um nooked? Would it be nooked or sticked? Sorry. Or
Would it be nooked or sticked? Sorry. Or slowpoked? No. Bad. Bad, bad jokes. Bad
slowpoked? No. Bad. Bad, bad jokes. Bad jokes.
jokes. I think Matt missed that joke. Thank
I think Matt missed that joke. Thank goodness.
It's Oh, Matt missed the joke. You should tell. You need to retell the joke
should tell. You need to retell the joke for everyone.
for everyone. No, I can't tell that twice. That's just
No, I can't tell that twice. That's just Can I tell it because it was good.
Can I tell it because it was good. Sure. Yeah, go for it. Yeah,
Sure. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I can't remember it.
I can't remember it. Don't worry, it's in text. You can just
Don't worry, it's in text. You can just pull it up. Oh, that's right.
pull it up. Oh, that's right. It was just something silly that you
It was just something silly that you know I I was a joke that I made up. It
know I I was a joke that I made up. It was a silly pun and it's
was a silly pun and it's he was four side cars in people. Don't
he was four side cars in people. Don't worry about it.
worry about it. Four side car joke. Okay.
Four side car joke. Okay. Yeah. And I'm sure probably the joke
Yeah. And I'm sure probably the joke already exists, but I felt clever for
already exists, but I felt clever for making it up and it's just silly. I
making it up and it's just silly. I mean, it's
mean, it's I thought it was good. Okay, I'm pulling
I thought it was good. Okay, I'm pulling it up right now. Hold on. Oh, here we
it up right now. Hold on. Oh, here we go.
go. I made a pun today.
I made a pun today. What do you call a sloth having sex?
It shouldn't be that funny. We're We're seeing another side of
We're We're seeing another side of Justin tonight.
Justin tonight. Well, that's what you get when you get
Well, that's what you get when you get four side cars in me.
four side cars in me. I have I have the most I am so hopeful
I have I have the most I am so hopeful that Justin somehow ends up with the
that Justin somehow ends up with the treasure chest and hides it again for us
treasure chest and hides it again for us all to find it again.
all to find it again. I will say that if I were to have found
I will say that if I were to have found that thing, my plan was to uh write up
that thing, my plan was to uh write up the solution and put it in the chest and
the solution and put it in the chest and then rehide it along with some other
then rehide it along with some other items that I have been collecting. So,
items that I have been collecting. So, you know, it'd be that'd be impetus for
you know, it'd be that'd be impetus for some folks to get out and search for it.
some folks to get out and search for it. Yeah. You think just a little?
Yeah. You think just a little? Yeah. Didn't Didn't quite work out.
Yeah. Didn't Didn't quite work out. Hey, it still might work out. It still
Hey, it still might work out. It still might work out.
might work out. It could.
It could. You still might end up with it. And And
You still might end up with it. And And if you do, I promise not to stalk you or
if you do, I promise not to stalk you or go all 7enter on you. I promise. Not
go all 7enter on you. I promise. Not going to happen. Oh, wait. I lied.
going to happen. Oh, wait. I lied. All right. Truck and Treasure says,
All right. Truck and Treasure says, "What if every what if every that got
"What if every what if every that got the book, I'm guessing everyone that got
the book, I'm guessing everyone that got the book was able to solve the poem, the
the book was able to solve the poem, the spot could have been literally trampled?
spot could have been literally trampled? How would Forest feel about his special
How would Forest feel about his special spot knowing everyone could go there?"
Early on though, I have a I when I interviewed Forest back in um 2015,
interviewed Forest back in um 2015, he actually says he would he would if
he actually says he would he would if the finder doesn't mind revealing the
the finder doesn't mind revealing the spot, he was good with it back in 2015.
spot, he was good with it back in 2015. So, how does that apply today as far as
So, how does that apply today as far as uh the family saying that they didn't
uh the family saying that they didn't want it revealed?
want it revealed? Well, there were a lot of crazy people
Well, there were a lot of crazy people that happened between 2015 and now. So
that happened between 2015 and now. So in the last five years, I mean in the
in the last five years, I mean in the last five years it changed so much the
last five years it changed so much the chase community and the crazy people
chase community and the crazy people that had come forward. You had the
that had come forward. You had the people that died starting in 2016. So uh
people that died starting in 2016. So uh you know a lot a lot happened after he
you know a lot a lot happened after he said that in 2015. I don't I don't know
said that in 2015. I don't I don't know if anyone particular thing changed his
if anyone particular thing changed his mind or he just really really was being
mind or he just really really was being supportive of Jack.
supportive of Jack. don't know.
don't know. So, we have we have 15 years working on
So, we have we have 15 years working on something that was so clever it was
something that was so clever it was going to take a hundred to a thousand
going to take a hundred to a thousand years to solve. We have Jack, right? Uh
years to solve. We have Jack, right? Uh with the family saying we don't want to
with the family saying we don't want to reveal it because then the spot becomes
reveal it because then the spot becomes like the um like the recent monolith
like the um like the recent monolith that was found. I almost actually put
that was found. I almost actually put I've got a little um like narrow box
I've got a little um like narrow box where you could put foil on it and make
where you could put foil on it and make it look like that little monolith that
it look like that little monolith that was found everywhere. I was going to put
was found everywhere. I was going to put that in the background.
that in the background. But I mean, we do know that spaces like
But I mean, we do know that spaces like that do get overwhelmed
that do get overwhelmed and do become then public knowledge, but
and do become then public knowledge, but forest seem to be okay with that before.
forest seem to be okay with that before. And yet, we're getting information that
And yet, we're getting information that says he's that that he he preferred it
says he's that that he he preferred it not to be known. Now, I you know, I
not to be known. Now, I you know, I there's so much conflicting stuff which
there's so much conflicting stuff which is is not new to the TTOC chase.
is is not new to the TTOC chase. But, you know, how do you reconcile
But, you know, how do you reconcile that? You know, never knowing the spot.
that? You know, never knowing the spot. We don't know if we figure things out,
We don't know if we figure things out, if we'll ever know 100% if we figured it
if we'll ever know 100% if we figured it out, except for the stick.
out, except for the stick. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. We're
I'm telling you. I'm telling you. We're gonna We're going to send you all a
gonna We're going to send you all a picture of all of us bent over, butts in
picture of all of us bent over, butts in the air with sticks in our hands,
the air with sticks in our hands, verifying it with the image on our
verifying it with the image on our iPads. Nope. Nope.
iPads. Nope. Nope. That was me earlier. Earlier this year
That was me earlier. Earlier this year at that
at that Oh, that's right. Tell us about that.
Oh, that's right. Tell us about that. Tell us what you're doing because Jenny
Tell us what you're doing because Jenny was cracking me up the look she was
was cracking me up the look she was giving you when you were telling us
giving you when you were telling us about that.
about that. Oh, no. I mean, I just I was spent hours
Oh, no. I mean, I just I was spent hours out there like four hours straight just
out there like four hours straight just digging through the dirt looking for
digging through the dirt looking for these the silly stick trying to trying
these the silly stick trying to trying to get a match. And of course
to get a match. And of course GPS location, right?
GPS location, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And you never found I mean
Yeah. And you never found I mean obviously it's going to be hard, right?
obviously it's going to be hard, right? But but at this point that's the only
But but at this point that's the only thing we have that's left there apart
thing we have that's left there apart from potentially maybe that ring.
from potentially maybe that ring. Um
Um I can say with reasonable confidence
I can say with reasonable confidence that that stick was not within a 20 foot
that that stick was not within a 20 foot radius of the you know the core
radius of the you know the core geographic coordinate solution location.
geographic coordinate solution location. Damn that is some severe search. Oh my
Damn that is some severe search. Oh my god.
god. It's not there. So you know if he tossed
It's not there. So you know if he tossed it aside there and that is the location
it aside there and that is the location then he tossed it pretty uh pretty hard.
then he tossed it pretty uh pretty hard. Oh
Oh So what's your opinion about that then?
So what's your opinion about that then? I mean,
I mean, it just goes back to the numbers, you
it just goes back to the numbers, you know? It's
from the the numbers aspect, it's hard to refute, but there are a lot of things
to refute, but there are a lot of things outside the numbers that make it easy to
outside the numbers that make it easy to refute.
So, do we think that um I know I've said this before, but I mean I didn't think
this before, but I mean I didn't think we were ever going to know the finder
we were ever going to know the finder and we know the finder now. And we don't
and we know the finder now. And we don't only know the finder, but he's answering
only know the finder, but he's answering everyone's emails. Not I don't I don't
everyone's emails. Not I don't I don't know if it's everyone, but
know if it's everyone, but so many, right? He's really making a
so many, right? He's really making a huge effort
huge effort to do what Forest did. And he's
to do what Forest did. And he's answering in a very similar fashion. I
answering in a very similar fashion. I can't imagine that is coincidental. I'm
can't imagine that is coincidental. I'm guessing he um has taken a cue
guessing he um has taken a cue from Forest um as far as how to answer
from Forest um as far as how to answer a hundred people emailing you, right?
a hundred people emailing you, right? There's there's there's got to be like a
There's there's there's got to be like a funnel that goes towards the psychology
funnel that goes towards the psychology of how you have to respond to people um
of how you have to respond to people um when everyone's asking you a question.
when everyone's asking you a question. And it it you know, it probably ends up
And it it you know, it probably ends up being very similar to the Fen. I mean, I
being very similar to the Fen. I mean, I don't know. What do you guys think as
don't know. What do you guys think as far as the similarities between the way
far as the similarities between the way he's answering and the way Forest
he's answering and the way Forest answered? Like that's just what
answered? Like that's just what ultimately happens when you have to
ultimately happens when you have to answer questions for people asking these
answer questions for people asking these things.
things. We should crowdsource this. So I think
We should crowdsource this. So I think what Forest may have done in certain
what Forest may have done in certain cases is put out publicly the answers to
cases is put out publicly the answers to questions that he got frequently so he
questions that he got frequently so he doesn't have to just keep answering the
doesn't have to just keep answering the same thing over again. Um,
same thing over again. Um, if all of us sent unique questions to
if all of us sent unique questions to Jack,
Jack, that would be I think that'd be a better
that would be I think that'd be a better strategy for us as a community because
strategy for us as a community because then there wouldn't be the same question
then there wouldn't be the same question over. So, he couldn't be like, well,
over. So, he couldn't be like, well, just publish these up on the site. Like,
just publish these up on the site. Like, everything's unique and so we get a lot
everything's unique and so we get a lot more answers. I I don't know. Just just
more answers. I I don't know. Just just my two cents.
What do you think, Matt? You were about to speak. Um, I've kind of forgotten the
to speak. Um, I've kind of forgotten the question, but but I'm gonna but I'm
question, but but I'm gonna but I'm gonna answer it anyway.
gonna answer it anyway. Excellent. That's the best show ever.
Excellent. That's the best show ever. No, I think um I mean he could have been
No, I think um I mean he could have been he could have been an He could
he could have been an He could have been a jerk and he's not.
have been a jerk and he's not. Turns out he's
Turns out he's he's being generous. He's answering
he's being generous. He's answering these questions. He's
these questions. He's trying to see the silver lining. I mean,
trying to see the silver lining. I mean, he ends um that one, was it the the
he ends um that one, was it the the second Medium article where he kind of
second Medium article where he kind of ends on a positive note. I mean, these
ends on a positive note. I mean, these are the worst circumstances you can
are the worst circumstances you can imagine. He he's rightfully
imagine. He he's rightfully upset about all this that that someone
upset about all this that that someone has forced his hand. It's very clear how
has forced his hand. It's very clear how the family feels, very clear how
the family feels, very clear how he feels. We can assume we know what how
he feels. We can assume we know what how Forest felt. No, this is wrong. What's
Forest felt. No, this is wrong. What's happening? And yet he puts a positive
happening? And yet he puts a positive spin in jackets mail. He comes out and
spin in jackets mail. He comes out and says, "This was a this was a joy. This
says, "This was a this was a joy. This is so surprising to meet all you nice
is so surprising to meet all you nice people, you know, and um so I think it's
people, you know, and um so I think it's great. I think it's great. I mean,
great. I think it's great. I mean, you talked about like the the
you talked about like the the similarities. I think it's inevitable
similarities. I think it's inevitable because he has secrets. he needs to keep
because he has secrets. he needs to keep um
um and he has to think about
and he has to think about you know what if I say this to this
you know what if I say this to this person this person's going to parse
person this person's going to parse every word and um so yeah it feels it
every word and um so yeah it feels it feels a lot like it when I'm sitting
feels a lot like it when I'm sitting there trying to put together an email it
there trying to put together an email it feels like when I used to write forest
feels like when I used to write forest and I wanted information
and I wanted information do I just say I want information or do I
do I just say I want information or do I say hey how are you
hope that he likes me back. The soft the family,
the family, what do I do? You know,
what do I do? You know, and um so and I and he's smart enough to
and um so and I and he's smart enough to know all that. I mean, it's it's very
know all that. I mean, it's it's very obvious that we're all we we want
obvious that we're all we we want information. He's
information. He's we're desperate for information.
we're desperate for information. Yeah. I I I just wonder it can't it
Yeah. I I I just wonder it can't it can't this can't last.
can't this can't last. He even did it for a few days and then
He even did it for a few days and then in Jack's in Jack gets mail he said I'm
in Jack's in Jack gets mail he said I'm I'm gonna step back
I'm gonna step back and it has slowed down. It has slowed
and it has slowed down. It has slowed down. He doesn't want to you know I
down. He doesn't want to you know I don't know if he's in residency. If he
don't know if he's in residency. If he is, it's amazing that he answered as
is, it's amazing that he answered as many emails as he did.
many emails as he did. That would be mind-blowing. Right.
That would be mind-blowing. Right. Right. So, he's working like 24 hours,
Right. So, he's working like 24 hours, then he has 24 hours off or whatever it
then he has 24 hours off or whatever it Why answer why answer all? Why, you
Why answer why answer all? Why, you know, um obviously coming forward, but
know, um obviously coming forward, but so generously saying, "Here's my email,
so generously saying, "Here's my email, right?" Why?
right?" Why? I think even people who aren't active in
I think even people who aren't active in the Chase community can still feel very
the Chase community can still feel very much a part of the Chase community. And
much a part of the Chase community. And I think he I think he felt that he you
I think he I think he felt that he you know he read the material he knew people
know he read the material he knew people he watched show shows cared about this
he watched show shows cared about this he liked for us you know and and I think
he liked for us you know and and I think you know I think it was I hope it was
you know I think it was I hope it was enjoyable for him. He said it was it was
enjoyable for him. He said it was it was a pleasant surprise. He was all like hey
a pleasant surprise. He was all like hey I'm I'm 1500 miles away from the
I'm I'm 1500 miles away from the treasure chest. I've got guards. I've
treasure chest. I've got guards. I've taken precautions. Get away from me. I
taken precautions. Get away from me. I don't want friends. And then all these
don't want friends. And then all these friendly people started saying, "Hey,
friendly people started saying, "Hey, congratulations." And he's like, "I'm
congratulations." And he's like, "I'm sorry, guys."
sorry, guys." A crap.
A crap. Sorry I with my hose and told you to get
Sorry I with my hose and told you to get off my lawn.
off my lawn. You know, that's what he said that I'm
You know, that's what he said that I'm feeling kind of bad that I was so
feeling kind of bad that I was so cranky.
cranky. Were you cranky?
Were you cranky? He He was kind of cranky.
He He was kind of cranky. He was Oh, I see.
He was Oh, I see. He's being sued.
He's being sued. Yeah, he was basically like, "Don't f
Yeah, he was basically like, "Don't f with me."
with me." Yes. Because I mean, it's it's no, you
Yes. Because I mean, it's it's no, you know, we all know that what what Forest
know, we all know that what what Forest and his family went through. That's, you
and his family went through. That's, you know, it's it's no secret. Um, you know,
know, it's it's no secret. Um, you know, the axeman
the axeman or the axeman,
or the axeman, right? That was not the axeman in the
right? That was not the axeman in the book. The one who broke in and stole a
book. The one who broke in and stole a chest full of dirt.
chest full of dirt. that aximan, right? So, I mean, I part
that aximan, right? So, I mean, I part of me was very very comforted by the
of me was very very comforted by the fact that he was aware enough to um
fact that he was aware enough to um protect his family from that from
protect his family from that from getting to a place where um and it's
getting to a place where um and it's funny when he said, you know, guards and
funny when he said, you know, guards and all that kind of stuff. Uh I was unaware
all that kind of stuff. Uh I was unaware of those types of communities until I
of those types of communities until I lived in Houston. And in Houston, um so
lived in Houston. And in Houston, um so many communities are actually like that,
many communities are actually like that, right? It's it's like it there's no um
right? It's it's like it there's no um what do they call it? Codes for for what
what do they call it? Codes for for what you can and can't do in certain
you can and can't do in certain subdivisions. They don't have that in
subdivisions. They don't have that in Houston. So So individual subdivisions
Houston. So So individual subdivisions create their own codes and stuff like
create their own codes and stuff like that. And so having gated communities is
that. And so having gated communities is actually really common in Houston,
actually really common in Houston, right? So when I heard that he had done
right? So when I heard that he had done that for me, I was like, "Yeah, it's a
that for me, I was like, "Yeah, it's a common thing that people do in certain
common thing that people do in certain communities." But for a lot of people
communities." But for a lot of people unaware of that, they were just like,
unaware of that, they were just like, "He did what? he did where well, you
"He did what? he did where well, you know, guarded gates, all this kind of
know, guarded gates, all this kind of stuff. Um, and I I don't know if it was
stuff. Um, and I I don't know if it was in Michigan where where where he set all
in Michigan where where where he set all that up, but um in Houston at least,
that up, but um in Houston at least, it's not an uncommon thing
it's not an uncommon thing and having a little gate where you you
and having a little gate where you you come in and out. Um,
come in and out. Um, I saw in in an online space that is not
I saw in in an online space that is not set up to trash everything and is kind
set up to trash everything and is kind of, you know, all about hate.
of, you know, all about hate. Not one of those places, but
Not one of those places, but friendly. I saw I saw his address
friendly. I saw I saw his address posted. I saw his occupation. I saw
posted. I saw his occupation. I saw where he lived. I saw all this. And I
where he lived. I saw all this. And I moderators need to delete this stuff.
moderators need to delete this stuff. And he he he he knows he knows that
And he he he he knows he knows that people will knock on his door.
people will knock on his door. He knows that he's going to be walking
He knows that he's going to be walking down the street and somebody's just
down the street and somebody's just going to walk up to him.
going to walk up to him. He knows that. It's terrible. But he he
He knows that. It's terrible. But he he knows the world he lives in and and were
knows the world he lives in and and were able to find each other and people
able to find each other and people found,
found, you know, awful jokes he made when he
you know, awful jokes he made when he was 21 years old and he got fired for
was 21 years old and he got fired for doing it, you know, and they're judging
doing it, you know, and they're judging him for that and they can people can
him for that and they can people can think whatever they want.
think whatever they want. Um, but I think he I think he learned a
Um, but I think he I think he learned a lot. I don't know if that's what's
lot. I don't know if that's what's Yeah, he was young.
Yeah, he was young. He was very young
He was very young when that happened. He was very young
when that happened. He was very young and and and you know I have a couple of
and and and you know I have a couple of 21 year olds and they're kind of dumb.
21 year olds and they're kind of dumb. We're all brains at
We're all brains at they have a few years of of mistakes to
they have a few years of of mistakes to make before they you know Amy you
make before they you know Amy you drinking of that?
drinking of that? I have to I have to we are we are there
I have to I have to we are we are there so many of us who are over 40 are so
so many of us who are over 40 are so grateful that social media hadn't taken
grateful that social media hadn't taken hold yet.
hold yet. Right.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be held accountable for what I did when I
held accountable for what I did when I was 21. I mean,
was 21. I mean, yeah,
yeah, whatever. I I I sort of see it in
whatever. I I I sort of see it in context, but
context, but uh what did you do when you
uh what did you do when you My wider point was that this whole idea
My wider point was that this whole idea of of going after him. Hey, I found out
of of going after him. Hey, I found out where he works. Hey, I find I found out
where he works. Hey, I find I found out where he lived. Hey, I know who his mom
where he lived. Hey, I know who his mom is. Hey, I got his dad's phone number.
is. Hey, I got his dad's phone number. Hey, I called them. Hey, I did this.
Hey, I called them. Hey, I did this. Like,
Like, creepy.
creepy. Yeah. And moderators need to just delete
Yeah. And moderators need to just delete all that stuff and be very conservative
all that stuff and be very conservative about it. lean on the side of I mean
about it. lean on the side of I mean lean on the side of if this were your
lean on the side of if this were your sibling, if this were your mother, if
sibling, if this were your mother, if this were your kid,
this were your kid, would you delete that information?
would you delete that information? Yeah, he deserves he deserves respect
Yeah, he deserves he deserves respect and and privacy and
and and privacy and yeah,
yeah, left alone if he wants to be left alone.
left alone if he wants to be left alone. Yeah, it's unfortunate that we have when
Yeah, it's unfortunate that we have when I
I Forest talked about the sevenenters when
Forest talked about the sevenenters when I was with him, he said I think we need
I was with him, he said I think we need to raise that number and he said the
to raise that number and he said the 12enters. So, I don't know where he got
12enters. So, I don't know where he got seven. I don't know where he got 12, but
seven. I don't know where he got 12, but the final word was 12enter. So,
the final word was 12enter. So, dang. All right. So, what's the latest
dang. All right. So, what's the latest word as far as when you were with Forest
word as far as when you were with Forest and like on our last show, you were
and like on our last show, you were talking about you were with Forest, but
talking about you were with Forest, but you didn't know for sure if he had known
you didn't know for sure if he had known uh about the find yet or not. And so
uh about the find yet or not. And so far, it seems like he knew. He
far, it seems like he knew. He absolutely did know. Um
absolutely did know. Um yeah. So, so I I was um
yeah. So, so I I was um I was searching very close and oh so
I was searching very close and oh so very far from where was and um I had I
very far from where was and um I had I had never met uh Forest. I had never met
had never met uh Forest. I had never met Cynthia Meechum and uh
Cynthia Meechum and uh but Forest was a big fan of yours
but Forest was a big fan of yours because of your videos. Uh we had we had
because of your videos. Uh we had we had had some back and forth and um it was a
had some back and forth and um it was a lot of fun in the spring making those
lot of fun in the spring making those videos and he finally just said we were
videos and he finally just said we were all very afraid of COVID but I think we
all very afraid of COVID but I think we were learning that we could there were
were learning that we could there were safe ways that we could meet and he
safe ways that we could meet and he invited me and so I showed up to his
invited me and so I showed up to his home about 10 10 a.m. in the morning on
home about 10 10 a.m. in the morning on June 6th, Saturday.
June 6th, Saturday. Uh spent a couple hours with him
Uh spent a couple hours with him uh and uh his dog and we just chatted.
uh and uh his dog and we just chatted. He's got nothing but time. Yeah.
He's got nothing but time. Yeah. And that's and that was the line that
And that's and that was the line that that there was a a low in the
that there was a a low in the conversation. I said, "For I said, I
conversation. I said, "For I said, I don't want to take it take up any more
don't want to take it take up any more of your time." And he turned to me and
of your time." And he turned to me and said, "Matt, I've got nothing but time.
So, you know, when hours later when Cynthia and I are together, I'm telling
Cynthia and I are together, I'm telling her this, I'm like, how could that man
her this, I'm like, how could that man say that? But, um, Jack wrote me and
say that? But, um, Jack wrote me and said that he absolutely did know. He had
said that he absolutely did know. He had found out the night before on Friday.
found out the night before on Friday. He had gotten that picture, I think.
He had gotten that picture, I think. Yeah, he got the picture and then
Yeah, he got the picture and then he was kind of waiting for Jack to to
he was kind of waiting for Jack to to like have it in his car, gassed up,
like have it in his car, gassed up, ready to go kind of, you know, all that.
ready to go kind of, you know, all that. And um
And um and yeah, I we were just chatting about,
and yeah, I we were just chatting about, you know, whatever current events and
you know, whatever current events and was not I'll say this, Forest was not
was not I'll say this, Forest was not interested in hearing about my search.
interested in hearing about my search. [Laughter]
[Laughter] I haven't figured out why,
I haven't figured out why, but uh I had a whole 30 minute
but uh I had a whole 30 minute presentation. I was gonna tell him all
presentation. I was gonna tell him all about my
about my No, I I didn't I didn't really want to
No, I I didn't I didn't really want to talk about it very much, but I mean I ju
talk about it very much, but I mean I ju I had just come from searching, so I
I had just come from searching, so I thought we would talk for at least five
thought we would talk for at least five or 10 minutes about it, but no, he
or 10 minutes about it, but no, he he wanted to talk about, you know,
he wanted to talk about, you know, that that's mind-blowing. So, he knew it
that that's mind-blowing. So, he knew it was found. He's hanging out with you.
was found. He's hanging out with you. As calm as can be. I thought he might
As calm as can be. I thought he might just like take a nap.
just like take a nap. Jesus.
Jesus. Like an old
Like an old And he knew the treasure was found and
And he knew the treasure was found and was on its way.
was on its way. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Yep. That is
That is I'm just incredible timing, Matt. I
I'm just incredible timing, Matt. I mean, just
mean, just I can't imagine
I can't imagine having more uncanny timing than you had.
having more uncanny timing than you had. Well, that that uncanniness is what kept
Well, that that uncanniness is what kept Cynthia and I up until like two in the
Cynthia and I up until like two in the morning.
morning. Like our minds spinning. We're like,
Like our minds spinning. We're like, "Let's What did What did we do? Make a
"Let's What did What did we do? Make a beer run?" We just like ran.
beer run?" We just like ran. Let's go on the live streams. Let's
Let's go on the live streams. Let's figure this out. What?
figure this out. What? Your first meeting with Forest.
Your first meeting with Forest. Your very first meeting with Forest.
Your very first meeting with Forest. And it's the the day and your first
And it's the the day and your first meeting with Cynthia,
meeting with Cynthia, right? I came out of there and Cynthia
right? I came out of there and Cynthia was was like, "Come on down." So, I went
was was like, "Come on down." So, I went down there and we hung out. And
down there and we hung out. And Matt, I'm curious like just in
Matt, I'm curious like just in retrospect now, do you
retrospect now, do you Oops.
Oops. What are your feelings on,
What are your feelings on, you know, when the stage of the hunt
you know, when the stage of the hunt where you got involved and the degree to
where you got involved and the degree to which you got involved?
which you got involved? Would would you have changed anything if
Would would you have changed anything if you had to do it over with? Would you
you had to do it over with? Would you just not even bother? Like what what's
just not even bother? Like what what's your outlook on that?
your outlook on that? Like if I had known that it was going to
Like if I had known that it was going to be found on the
be found on the Sure.
tough question would have pushed it even harder and I
would have pushed it even harder and I did some really stupid things hiking
did some really stupid things hiking alone.
alone. Um I
Um I dangerous.
dangerous. Well,
Well, I um
I um I was at a I was at a point in the
I was at a I was at a point in the landscape where I needed to like descend
landscape where I needed to like descend this this hill. It wasn't really a
this this hill. It wasn't really a cliff, but it's the kind of thing that
cliff, but it's the kind of thing that would take you 15 minutes to go down and
would take you 15 minutes to go down and two and a half hours to go back up. And
two and a half hours to go back up. And I knew that. And so I knew that this was
I knew that. And so I knew that this was a one-way street. And I was going into
a one-way street. And I was going into an area I'd never been in before. And
an area I'd never been in before. And when I got down there, it was just
when I got down there, it was just crazy with with deadfall.
crazy with with deadfall. And so I don't know how fast a person is
And so I don't know how fast a person is going when they're hiking normally on a
going when they're hiking normally on a nice trail,
nice trail, but with with down trees everywhere and
but with with down trees everywhere and occasionally going over six of them and
occasionally going over six of them and realizing that you really need to go
realizing that you really need to go back and and go around and then, you
back and and go around and then, you know, like once I got down there and I
know, like once I got down there and I turned around and I looked at what I had
turned around and I looked at what I had done and I thought about this and at
done and I thought about this and at this point it's about like 1:45
this point it's about like 1:45 And I was like, and there's no self-
And I was like, and there's no self- service. Like, I'm not getting back out
service. Like, I'm not getting back out into civilization until seven or eight
into civilization until seven or eight o'clock and I'm walking out and I've
o'clock and I'm walking out and I've been up since six and just I w I was
been up since six and just I w I was never afraid for my life. I mean,
never afraid for my life. I mean, there's always grizzlies and that kind
there's always grizzlies and that kind of thing. But it's just like
of thing. But it's just like I shouldn't have made that, you know, I
I shouldn't have made that, you know, I I got that hunger for here I am. I've
I got that hunger for here I am. I've come so far, whatever. So, um, and I
come so far, whatever. So, um, and I did. I mean, I had to walk out. I It was
did. I mean, I had to walk out. I It was Was this obviously with Grizzlies? This
Was this obviously with Grizzlies? This was
was It was mentioned It was actually
It was mentioned It was actually mentioned in the Justin article, if I
mentioned in the Justin article, if I can call it that.
can call it that. Oh, jeez.
Oh, jeez. You can call it
You can call it that I came out. It was very um it was
that I came out. It was very um it was like a bog.
like a bog. um in in sort of these areas. You guys
um in in sort of these areas. You guys have encountered this where on the on a
have encountered this where on the on a river bank it'll sometimes go for for 20
river bank it'll sometimes go for for 20 30 yards where it's just like you know
30 yards where it's just like you know three inches of water but just
three inches of water but just everywhere
everywhere and and I was trying to avoid that. I
and and I was trying to avoid that. I didn't want wet socks but eventually I'm
didn't want wet socks but eventually I'm just like you know it. I got I got
just like you know it. I got I got to go through here. I have wet feet. I
to go through here. I have wet feet. I come out into a um a cult. It was it was
come out into a um a cult. It was it was a cult uh land. They had I think they
a cult uh land. They had I think they were going to have a greenhouse.
were going to have a greenhouse. Bunch of people in robes chanting.
Bunch of people in robes chanting. They never put up the greenhouse. So,
They never put up the greenhouse. So, they just had the skeleton of this
they just had the skeleton of this greenhouse. And then I saw this thing
greenhouse. And then I saw this thing that you can see on Google Earth. It
that you can see on Google Earth. It just looks like these little circles
just looks like these little circles like someone like God has drawn little
like someone like God has drawn little circles but those are air vents and they
circles but those are air vents and they let in light and there
let in light and there pot
pot uh no like there's a way to go
uh no like there's a way to go underground and then you shut the door
underground and then you shut the door and now everybody is underground but up
and now everybody is underground but up on this rise are these circles. They're
on this rise are these circles. They're huge. The the smaller ones are like five
huge. The the smaller ones are like five feet in diameter and the larger ones are
feet in diameter and the larger ones are 15 feet. I'm coming out in this. I'm
15 feet. I'm coming out in this. I'm already writing like what am I gonna say
already writing like what am I gonna say when the cult leader comes out with the
when the cult leader comes out with the guns and I'm and and I'm just walking
guns and I'm and and I'm just walking walking walking and I didn't get back. I
walking walking and I didn't get back. I mean my wife was furious with me
mean my wife was furious with me as she should be. I didn't have cell
as she should be. I didn't have cell service until like like I didn't call
service until like like I didn't call her until seven, you know.
her until seven, you know. So
So you need to hang out with Tyler.
All right. Hit me up. Hit me up, Tyler. I will convey that message.
I will convey that message. That's crazy. This was a real place. I
That's crazy. This was a real place. I mean, a real crazy place. If you are in
mean, a real crazy place. If you are in the Gardener Valley and you go past uh
the Gardener Valley and you go past uh Devil's Slide,
Devil's Slide, which everyone thought was Home of
which everyone thought was Home of Brown,
Brown, there's a way to turn back into that
there's a way to turn back into that canyon.
canyon. And right there, it's very obvious. You
And right there, it's very obvious. You can see some structures, some buildings,
can see some structures, some buildings, and they're obviously kind of there's
and they're obviously kind of there's there's you can see some uh not crosses,
there's you can see some uh not crosses, or maybe they are crosses, but you can
or maybe they are crosses, but you can see that it's like, oh, these are this
see that it's like, oh, these are this is some kind of a church. And then you
is some kind of a church. And then you see like the most expensive cars out
see like the most expensive cars out parked out front, lots of limousines and
parked out front, lots of limousines and and all this stuff. And and
and all this stuff. And and what's the name of that place? The the
what's the name of that place? The the the
the I forgotten. I've forgotten. But you can
I forgotten. I've forgotten. But you can you can look it up. It's right there.
you can look it up. It's right there. They they own Devil's Slide and they
They they own Devil's Slide and they don't like the name. They want to call
don't like the name. They want to call it Angel Slide or something.
it Angel Slide or something. That's right. Yep.
That's right. Yep.
But they also own if you take that road back
back we were talking about land earlier and
we were talking about land earlier and this was a question.
this was a question. Yes.
Yes. When
When when the land is private property
when the land is private property because it's been acquired but you can
because it's been acquired but you can still drive on the road.
still drive on the road. I I legally.
I I legally. Yeah. Um, but those people who own that
Yeah. Um, but those people who own that land, they'll they'll often post signs
land, they'll they'll often post signs that are deliberately misleading, saying
that are deliberately misleading, saying private property, and you're not sure if
private property, and you're not sure if that means the road. And you'll get to a
that means the road. And you'll get to a gate and it'll be like private property.
gate and it'll be like private property. And then you're like, am I still on this
And then you're like, am I still on this uh whatever they call it, time, not time
uh whatever they call it, time, not time share, but some kind of some kind of
share, but some kind of some kind of shared thing
shared thing like a rightway. Isn't it sort of like a
like a rightway. Isn't it sort of like a rightaway?
rightaway? Yeah. I don't know. But there were a lot
Yeah. I don't know. But there were a lot of things like that where I wanted to
of things like that where I wanted to drive a mile up this road and park my
drive a mile up this road and park my car, but I was so scared of, you know, I
car, but I was so scared of, you know, I mean, this is Montana.
mean, this is Montana. I actually went to those guys when I was
I actually went to those guys when I was searching up there and just talked to
searching up there and just talked to them and said, "Hey, is it okay if I
them and said, "Hey, is it okay if I hike in the area?" And they were cool
hike in the area?" And they were cool with it. So, you know,
with it. So, you know, wait, the Devil Slide area, that that
wait, the Devil Slide area, that that group,
group, what's the group? What is the name?
what's the group? What is the name? That's what I'm trying to recall. It's a
That's what I'm trying to recall. It's a church that's there. Um,
church that's there. Um, oh Jesus.
oh Jesus. And I don't I don't recall the name of
And I don't I don't recall the name of the the organization. I'm terrible.
the the organization. I'm terrible. Oh Jesus.
Oh Jesus. I think it's Church Universal and
I think it's Church Universal and Triumphants
Triumphants Royal Teton Ranch or something to that
Royal Teton Ranch or something to that effect.
effect. So they're cool. They're cool. Like as
So they're cool. They're cool. Like as far as you hiking around.
far as you hiking around. Yeah.
Yeah. But
But yeah, as long as you go and talk to him
yeah, as long as you go and talk to him first.
first. How did you know to talk to him?
How did you know to talk to him? I looked up on the land.
I looked up on the land. Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. Wow. And so
Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. Wow. And so I mean I know Devil's Slide was a
I mean I know Devil's Slide was a popular area. I mean a lot of people
popular area. I mean a lot of people were looking there.
were looking there. So they must have been familiar with the
So they must have been familiar with the Forest Finers, right?
Forest Finers, right? I'm sure they were. Yeah.
I'm sure they were. Yeah. I just can't imagine.
I just can't imagine. That was always my tactic though is you
That was always my tactic though is you know I never
know I never affiliated myself with the search per
affiliated myself with the search per se. You know, I'd say I'm like I'd like
se. You know, I'd say I'm like I'd like to hike in the area.
to hike in the area. Hi, I'm a crazy forest fan searcher. I
Hi, I'm a crazy forest fan searcher. I believe there's gold here.
