0:01 Greetings, Church and Ministry Alliance
0:03 members. My name is Marcus Harris,
0:06 member engagement director for ADF's
0:08 Church and Ministry Alliance team. And
0:10 on behalf of our team, we want to thank
0:12 you and welcome you uh for joining us
0:15 for this exclusive membersonly live
0:18 stream on facility use policies that
0:20 reflect and protect your mission. Now,
0:22 before we jump into the content today,
0:25 let's begin with a word of prayer. So,
0:28 Father, we thank you today for uh all
0:31 the ministries that are represented here
0:32 uh the members of the church and
0:34 ministry alliance. And God, we just ask
0:37 that uh as we discuss this topic today
0:38 that you would just provide these
0:42 ministries with clarity uh and uh just
0:44 confidence to continue to live out their
0:47 missions to um touch the members of
0:49 their of their respective ministries,
0:51 but also to reach out to the community
0:53 as well. And so, Father, we just pray uh
0:57 for just your wisdom. Uh and God, we
0:59 thank you uh most importantly for your
1:03 son, Jesus, and for giving us salvation
1:05 uh that we may have eternal life. So,
1:07 God, thank you for this day. In Jesus
1:10 name we pray. Amen.
1:13 Now, members, as you probably are well
1:17 aware, uh facility use is a big deal. uh
1:19 and is actually one of the most frequent
1:22 questions we receive here at the church
1:24 and ministry alliance. It can be a
1:27 powerful tool uh for your mission or can
1:29 also potentially be a resource of
1:32 confusion and conflict and even present
1:35 some legal challenges. Now today we will
1:37 walk through the main approaches
1:39 ministries are taking when it comes to
1:41 facility use. We'll also talk about the
1:44 tradeoffs at each step and also provide
1:46 you with practical safeguards to help
1:49 you craft policies that protect your
1:52 mission. Now, to accompany our live
1:56 stream today, we have a a recent uh uh
1:58 brand new resource, I should say, on the
2:01 facility use guide uh that we created.
2:03 And we're going to link uh that uh we're
2:06 going to provide a link to that facility
2:09 use guide in the chat. You can also
2:12 access this guide and a sample facility
2:16 use policy on our membersonly site. If
2:18 you need help accessing the membersonly
2:21 site, we want to encourage you to please
2:25 email us at churchalliance adfleal.org.
2:28 Once again, that email address is churchalliance
2:29 churchalliance adfleal.orgg.
2:36 Now to introduce our esteemed guest
2:39 today and two wonderful attorneys uh who
2:41 serve our church and ministry alliance
2:44 team. Uh let me introduce to you Valerie
2:47 Londano and Patrick Piccolo. Uh Valerie
2:49 serves as senior counsel here for the
2:51 church and ministry alliance team and
2:54 she also serves as deputy director for
2:58 CMA. In addition, Patrick Patrick uh
3:00 Piccolo, he serves as legal counsel and
3:02 he also serves in the same role as
3:04 deputy director of the church and
3:06 ministry alliance team. Patabal, thank
3:09 thanks for joining me today.
3:12 >> Thanks Marcus. Happy
3:15 >> absolutely. So let's jump in. We got a
3:16 lot of talk talk about when it comes to
3:19 facility use policies. Uh and you know
3:21 there's there's different approaches
3:23 that churches and ministries take when
3:25 it comes to facility use. So Val, I'm
3:27 going to present the first question to
3:29 you. Uh what are some of the different
3:31 perspectives on facility use you've
3:34 heard from members? Uh you know in the
3:36 guide you talk about you know these four
3:38 different levels of restriction for
3:40 facility use. So we'll love for you to
3:43 unpack those different levels for us.
3:46 >> Yeah absolutely. You know I I know I can
3:47 say this speaking on behalf of Pat
3:49 because we have long conversations about
3:52 facility use. We are so excited to
3:55 present this new guide for our members
3:56 um because we've just learned from
3:59 experience over the last set of years
4:00 talking with hundreds of members.
4:02 Facility use as you mentioned Marcus is
4:05 a frequently asked question that comes
4:07 our way and we engage weekly with
4:09 members one-on-one on these issues.
4:11 There are a lot of unique aspects to it.
4:13 But one thing that we're excited about,
4:15 one element of the guide that we put
4:16 together very thoughtfully and very
4:18 prayerfully and intentionally, we hope
4:20 will help you, whether you're a church
4:23 or a ministry, to do the deep work of
4:26 discernment about how God's best calling
4:28 you to use your unique facility. So, we
4:30 have a slide that illustrates um one
4:33 section of the guide that that spells
4:35 out these four different levels that
4:37 Marcus Marcus mentioned. You'll see it
4:39 looks like an upside down pyramid. So,
4:41 I'm just going to walk quickly through
4:43 the levels, but take a note of that
4:45 arrow over there to the right, that
4:47 arrow pointing upwards. This is designed
4:51 in a way just to help you understand in
4:53 context that as you travel up the
4:55 levels, and you may or may not, it
4:58 depends completely on the discernment of
5:00 your unique um church or ministry. We'll
5:02 talk about that in a minute. Um, but as
5:04 you journey up those levels, starting at
5:06 level one, which we would view to be the
5:09 most restrictive approach to facility
5:12 use strategy, note that the risk
5:14 increases. And by risk, we mean legal
5:16 risk, also some practical risk of just
5:19 bumping up against different issues,
5:22 whether it's h having to do with a rest
5:24 restroom usage issue, which we'll get in
5:27 we'll get into later in the webinar. Um,
5:29 we put we say this not to scare you off
5:31 from getting to level four. If you feel
5:32 that God's calling you to use your
5:35 facilities in a way that's the most open
5:37 um, open doors come one come all is what
5:38 we've labeled that level four as you see
5:41 at the top. By all means, we're here to
5:43 support you and encourage you to take
5:44 those steps of obedience to what you
5:47 feel like God's calling you to do with
5:49 your unique facility. But this chart,
5:51 this graph, and then the concept of the
5:54 levels is really designed to help you
5:56 have a framework and have us help us
5:58 have a framework to talk with members
6:01 about what type of facility use strategy
6:03 and philosophy that you want to use for
6:06 your unique property. So starting at the
6:08 bottom, that level one, this would this
6:10 were calling members only. So, I realize
6:14 that concept um translates most um
6:16 directly to a church audience where you
6:19 have typically a defined category of
6:20 members. You're either a member of the
6:23 church or just an attendee. Um that's
6:24 another conversation you could get into
6:26 more in depth, but assuming that you're
6:28 the type of church or ministry that has
6:29 members, that level one is going to make
6:30 a lot of sense. That's going to look
6:33 like a traditional church that only
6:36 wants to open use of its building for
6:38 its members. So, for example, you're
6:39 going to have your Sunday worship
6:41 services. Of course, there's an element
6:44 of come one, come all to that, right up
6:46 at level four where um the doors are
6:48 open to anybody that wants to attend.
6:50 But now we're talking about Monday,
6:53 Tuesday, Wednesday through Saturday. Um
6:54 are your doors opening again and for
6:57 what purpose? And so, level one would be
7:00 kind of reserved for those churches that
7:02 decide to only open their doors during
7:04 the week to their members. Maybe they're
7:07 hosting Bible studies or small groups or
7:09 a children's service on a Wednesday
7:10 night. That's a common thing we all know
7:13 about. Um in a school context or in
7:14 another type of ministry context, a
7:17 pregnancy center or a rescue mission, of
7:18 course, that level one is not going to
7:20 be as relevant, but I just wanted to
7:22 note um that's what that means.
7:25 Journeying up to level two, um this is
7:27 what we're describing as mission aligned
7:30 only. Um, this would be in indicative of
7:33 a church, for example, that feels that
7:35 they do want to open their doors on that
7:37 Tuesday through Saturday space outside
7:40 of their Sunday worship services um to
7:42 some outside groups and some outside
7:44 users, but they don't want to go so far
7:47 as to level four, come one, come all.
7:49 Um, but they're they're using a good bit
7:52 of discretion at this level two to
7:55 missional aligned only groups. So, let
7:57 me walk out a quick example. Let's say
7:59 you're a church of a particular
8:01 denomination, a Baptist church. We have
8:03 a lot of Southern Baptist members, of
8:06 course. Um, then maybe you would decide
8:07 that for your property, it's open to
8:10 your church, your members, level one.
8:12 So, we're building on that, but also any
8:15 local SBC churches that are also within
8:17 the same denomination. That might be a
8:19 decision that you prayerfully discern
8:22 works for your church at level two. Um,
8:24 probably the most common I'm guessing
8:26 for those on this call is going to be
8:28 hanging out up here at level three,
8:31 which we've called any non-contradictory
8:33 users. Um, let me walk out a few
8:36 examples of that. Um, again, looking at
8:37 a church facility because it's kind of
8:39 an easy concrete thing to get our arms
8:40 around. Let's say you have a church
8:42 building. You're of course open to all
8:44 on Sundays for your typical worship
8:46 services. You have some membersonly
8:49 event throughout the week. Um, but also
8:51 you want to open up to some local
8:53 groups. Let's say you have a local
8:55 knitting group of an elderly community
8:57 and they just need a classroom to sit in
8:59 on Thursday night to do their knitting.
9:01 Um, and you might decide that that's a
9:03 use that you want to open your doors to.
9:06 Um, more frequently recently, we've seen
9:08 churches following the trend of opening
9:10 their doors to host homeschool co-op
9:12 groups. where maybe you have a
9:15 collection of parents not only with not
9:17 only members level one but also some
9:19 outside community members coming in to
9:22 join that homeschool co-op um and their
9:24 mission aligned you feel at level two
9:26 but also they're not contradictoring
9:27 they're not they're not contradicting
9:30 anything about your beliefs or your
9:32 values. Um couple other examples just to
9:34 keep walking that out. Let's say you
9:36 have a local antihuman trafficking group
9:38 and it's junior high girls from the
9:40 middle school down the street and they
9:42 want to use a classroom during the week
9:44 on your facility and you decide that
9:47 that's an acceptable non-contradictory
9:50 use. Um that's a few examples there. And
9:51 then we've talked about level four
9:53 finally a little bit. We call that the
9:56 come one come all level. Walking a
9:58 couple examples out under that level.
10:01 Um, you might have a church that's
10:03 decided that they want to engage their
10:05 community in special additional ways.
10:08 For example, being an official polling
10:10 location during the elections. And at
10:12 that time during that season, they're
10:14 opening their doors quite widely to
10:16 anybody in the community. Come one, come
10:18 all, cast your vote. Um, and they want
10:20 to be of service in that way to their
10:22 local community. Some other examples
10:24 might be um a relevant one for this
10:26 month in October, a trunk or treat type
10:29 of a program at a church and you've
10:30 opened that up on a Saturday perhaps to
10:32 the entire community, the whole county.
10:35 Come one, come all. Um and then there
10:37 could be other community events. Maybe
10:39 you've got a large gy gymnasium. There's
10:42 a um church where I live that host a
10:44 youth basketball league for kids,
10:46 including mine. We don't attend that
10:48 church, but we go there on Saturdays for
10:50 the basketball games. So those are some
10:51 examples to lay out the levels and then
10:54 we'll go more in depth from here.
10:56 >> Yeah. And Val, I know that you would uh
10:58 highly encourage like prayerful
11:00 discernment for each church and ministry
11:04 on how they decide to, you know, which
11:06 level they would would enter into. So uh
11:09 could you maybe describe for us uh how
11:11 you would encourage churches and
11:14 ministries to decide what level uh they
11:16 they want to be at, what or want to
11:17 enter in on.
11:20 >> Absolutely. Yeah. First things first, we
11:21 do, you hit the nail on the head,
11:22 Marcus, we encourage prayerful
11:24 discernment because after all, you're a
11:26 church or a ministry or that that's what
11:29 distinguishes you from the business down
11:31 the street or a public school down the
11:33 street. So, first and foremost, you'll
11:34 see some language in our guide and
11:37 introductory pages. We talk about the
11:38 absolute importance of, you know,
11:40 whatever your leadership governing body
11:42 looks like, whether there's a board or
11:45 maybe a pastor or a president or a CEO.
11:47 Um, taking some time to do that deep
11:49 work of prayerful discernment,
11:52 evaluating the facilities you have. Um,
11:54 every property is unique. And I've
11:57 talked with some churches that have a
11:59 building that has a big kitchen that
12:00 could be really suitable to host, for
12:02 example, a soup kitchen. That would get
12:04 you up to that level four. and you might
12:07 feel really called as a local church to
12:09 reach the homeless population in your
12:11 community and to do that service. And
12:14 so, um, but that it all depends on the
12:16 design of your facility. Um, the type of
12:19 offerings you have within your unique
12:21 property. Um, and then really start
12:22 there with the prayerful prayerful
12:24 discernment. And the reason we emphasize
12:26 that so much, Marcus, is because we were
12:28 noticing, um, sometimes members were
12:30 coming to us and they the first thing
12:31 they want to know is what's the bottom
12:33 line? What's the legal risk? And we want
12:36 to really make sure that while legal
12:38 risk is of course important and Pat and
12:40 I as attorneys were here to talk about
12:41 that every day all day, we'll help you
12:43 flush out the legal risk. We never want
12:45 to scare a church or ministry away from
12:48 what God's calling them to do and how
12:50 God wants them to reach their community.
12:54 So really this chart um is designed not
12:57 to be one of you can see the even the
12:59 color scheme. not a green and a red
13:02 analysis of oh no more legal risk don't
13:05 do it. Um we want to start at the
13:06 starting point. How how how are you
13:09 discerning God's calling you to use your
13:12 property in a unique way and then let's
13:13 evaluate the legal risk from there and
13:15 decide whether that risk is an appetite
13:18 you're willing um to take and move
13:20 forward. Pat, would you add anything on
13:22 to that?
13:25 I I completely agree and I don't have
13:27 have too much additional to say on top
13:29 of that. Um but I think that's that's
13:32 the threshold question is really what do
13:35 you believe about property ownership?
13:38 What do you believe is good, wise,
13:40 prudent stewardship of your ministry's
13:43 property in light of what God asks of
13:45 you and who God called you to be? And
13:47 different ministries are going to land
13:48 in different places and that's okay.
13:50 This isn't to say, "Oh, that ministry is
13:52 right or this ministry is wrong."
13:54 Because we're all called to work
13:56 together to build the kingdom of God.
13:58 Um, and we're trying to use all of our
14:00 resources, everything available to us to
14:02 do that. But we want to be deliberate
14:04 and make deliberate theological
14:08 decisions rooted in our mission about
14:09 how we're going to how we're going to
14:10 open our facilities, how we're going to
14:12 do X, Y, or Z. That's always a threshold
14:14 question. But to your point, Val,
14:16 downstream from that, there's always
14:18 going to be practical considerations.
14:20 And I would fully appreciate that
14:22 leaders of a ministry are going to say,
14:24 "Well, a really important part of my
14:26 discernment of wise stewardship is going
14:29 to be understanding the risk.
14:31 Understanding the risk that I'm taking
14:33 on, that the ministry is taking on when
14:34 I make a decision." And I think that's
14:36 absolutely true. We just don't want to
14:41 excise theological discernment from the
14:44 kind of panoramic view of considerations
14:46 that a ministry is going to take into
14:48 account. But definitely there's going to
14:49 be down you know there's going to be a
14:51 variety of considerations as Val pointed
14:54 out as the arrow um in the chart shows
14:57 the more open you are the more risk you
15:00 take on. That's how it is in basically
15:03 every c almost every category. the more
15:05 open you are are the more risk you take
15:07 on from a legal and a practical
15:09 standpoint. Um which isn't to say it's
15:11 wrong. It's just a reality to take
15:14 account of. Um as you kind of walk
15:17 through this prayerful process.
15:20 >> Now Pat you mentioned you know there
15:21 there are more risk the more that you
15:24 open but can we even get more practical
15:26 more specific? What are some of those
15:30 risk and actual benefits of each level?
15:32 >> Yeah absolutely. So I'm I think if
15:34 you're talking about categories of risk,
15:36 we can probably break them out into a
15:38 few few different groupings. One that we
15:40 consistently work with and are
15:43 navigating um in our world of religious
15:45 liberty is non-discrimination laws. And
15:47 the type of non-discrimination law
15:49 that's typically going to be applicable
15:51 when you're talking about facility use
15:53 maybe the most common type of
15:55 non-discrimination law is called a
15:57 public accommodations statute or
16:00 ordinance. Um, so that's one one level
16:02 of risk. Um, another category of risk
16:06 might have to do with tax liability. Um,
16:07 what are the tax implications? You have
16:10 a property tax exemption. Um, if you're
16:12 charging fees and you're generating
16:13 revenue from the use of your of your
16:16 facilities, then you have to wonder or
16:18 take into account whether there's any
16:21 sort of um income tax implication. Um,
16:22 and then you have what I would
16:24 categorize as just general risk
16:27 management. And this is in going to
16:28 include things like child protection
16:31 policies. Are you having youth events?
16:33 Are outside groups hosting youth youth
16:36 events? Um do you have a playground? Do
16:38 you have any high-risk activities that
16:40 are available on your property? Um and
16:42 and some of those questions are going to
16:44 implic implicate your insurance policy
16:47 and coverage questions as well. Um but I
16:48 would kind of run run through the list
16:49 that way. You've got your
16:51 non-discrimination laws, typically
16:52 public accommodations. You've got tax
16:55 implications, and then you have this big
16:57 broad category that we might call
16:59 general risk management. All of those
17:00 things you're going to want to think
17:02 through and gather up based on your
17:04 unique circumstances.
17:06 And then you want to mesh it with um
17:08 your theological discernment of of how
17:10 God is calling you to engage the
17:13 community and build his kingdom.
17:16 >> Got it. Now, let's let's provide maybe
17:18 for the for those in attendance and
17:21 watching maybe some concrete uh
17:23 scenarios. I know that in the in the new
17:25 facility use guide, it does offer some
17:27 hypothetical scenarios. I think
17:29 specifically on page 11. Uh can you talk
17:32 about some of those and and yeah, just
17:34 give some concrete scenarios on on how
17:36 this will how this would kind of work in
17:39 each in for different ministries?
17:42 Yeah, I'm happy to happy to talk about a
17:44 couple of those first and then um Val
17:46 can come in behind and pick up the
17:48 pieces and correct me when I go wrong.
17:50 Um so what I love about these
17:52 hypothetical scenarios, I think there's
17:54 three as you pointed out Marks on page
17:57 11 is answering these questions, it's
17:59 not about they're not trick questions
18:01 and they're not a trap. It's not like oh
18:03 you know you got that hypothetical
18:06 wrong. Uh they're genuine prompts for
18:08 discernment. uh answering these
18:11 questions is going to help elucidate for
18:15 you which level um in that upside down
18:18 pyramid uh you actually fall into. Um
18:20 sometimes in the abstract it's hard to
18:22 say, oh I think I'm at level two, maybe
18:25 I'm at level three. Um I should note the
18:27 levels are on a spectrum. It's not like
18:28 you could there's you could
18:30 theoretically be in the joints in
18:32 between two of them. Um they're just
18:35 kind of a general picture of categories
18:37 you might fit into. Um, but these
18:39 hypotheticals are prompts to help you
18:42 discern with a bit more clarity where
18:44 you actually fall because sometimes it's
18:47 hard in a vacuum to really know. So one
18:49 of the examples that actually comes up
18:53 with some level of frequency um from
18:55 members is imagine you have a scouting
18:58 organization, a local scouting troop
19:02 that wants to use your facility and uh
19:05 the scouting troop seems great. Uh but
19:07 they're attached to a national
19:10 organization that you know holds beliefs
19:12 contrary to yours and possibly even
19:15 promotes beliefs contrary to yours. um
19:18 are you going to host them or not? This
19:21 question comes up a lot and the answer is
19:22 is
19:24 what do you want to do? What do you
19:27 think is the right answer? How would you
19:29 want to respond to that? Sometimes you
19:31 can have a a ministry say we really
19:33 think we're a level three. Any
19:35 non-contradictory users, as long as they
19:38 can, you know, agree that they're not
19:39 going to contradict our beliefs when
19:42 they're using our facility, we're good
19:43 to go. Then they come to that
19:48 hypothetical um and they say, "Oh,
19:50 actually associating with that
19:53 organization feels problematic for us
19:55 because in one way or another, we feel
19:58 that's going to negatively impact or
20:00 undermine our public testimony to the
20:02 community. Doesn't have to be a scouting
20:04 organization. Some of the other examples
20:06 um other hypotheticals provide, you
20:08 know, different different scenarios
20:10 where a similar question could come up.
20:12 Um, and then you're thinking it's
20:15 actually that we don't want to associate
20:18 or open our facilities to organizations
20:21 whose purposes and mission or something
20:23 central to their purpose and mission
20:26 directly contradicts our beliefs such
20:27 that associating with them is going to
20:29 undermine our mission. Well, that's
20:31 helpful. That's really helpful
20:34 discernment. And when you're working
20:36 through those types of scenarios, it can
20:38 help guide the articulation of your
20:40 policy. what the what the actual
20:43 boundaries are um around the use of your
20:45 facility. So that's I mean that's one
20:48 example. Another one I think in there is
20:51 uh imagine that a a Buddhist group or
20:54 some other religious tradition wants to
20:56 use your facility for um something
20:59 innocent enough like a birthday party um
21:03 or uh you know a a gathering of some
21:06 sort. Um is this is this a problem for
21:09 you or not? because they hold beliefs
21:11 and does that analysis change if they're
21:13 going to be promoting those beliefs in
21:15 some capacity. Working through those
21:18 questions is going to help you identify
21:20 where the pressure point is for your
21:22 ministry, where you really feel like if
21:24 this happened, we believe we'd be
21:27 failing our stewardship responsibility
21:31 by not utilizing the uh resources
21:33 entrusted to us by God's generosity for
21:36 his kingdom. This is where that line is.
21:38 And once you've identified it, you can
21:42 begin to craft your policy artfully and
21:44 tactfully around that discern. I know
21:46 Val, would you add to that?
21:48 >> Well, I think I think you covered it
21:50 really well. Yeah, those hypotheticals
21:53 on page 11, those are ones that come to
21:55 us not infrequently as you mentioned.
21:57 And I think the point to underscore
21:59 there, Pat, is that there's no right or
22:01 wrong answer. This really is an issue of
22:03 discernment and there are some
22:06 implications of legal risk that attend
22:08 each one. But we really we always want
22:10 to emphasize the first things first is
22:12 the you know spiritual discernment
22:14 process you want to do. You let us know
22:16 after you prayerfully consider what do
22:18 you want to do and we'll help walk you
22:19 through the legal risk and some
22:21 potential strategies to mitigate the
22:25 risk should you decide to move forward.
22:28 >> Great. Now Pat, you've already mentioned
22:31 uh uh different risk and the scenarios
22:33 were great. So you mentioned public
22:35 accommodations, tax implications, sh
22:39 safety, insurance. Um Val um as you know
22:41 when it comes to public accommodations,
22:42 one is one of the biggest concerns
22:45 churches and ministries have uh you know
22:47 the concern of being asked to host a
22:49 group or event that directly contradicts
22:52 that belief. So, how would you advise
22:55 churches and ministries to think about
22:57 the risk of public accommodations?
23:00 >> Yeah, absolutely. If you track any of
23:01 our litigation up to the Supreme Court,
23:03 you'll notice that there's a theme
23:05 there. The public accommodations laws
23:08 have sprung up to become problematic um
23:09 for Christians and Christian
23:11 organizations in various states. I think
23:13 the point to emphasize with public
23:15 accommodations is first, what is it?
23:19 It's a type of law or regulation that um
23:21 is going to put additional layers of
23:24 obligations and legal burdens on places
23:27 that meet that definition of being a
23:29 place of public accommodation. So, let's
23:32 educate a little bit about where you can
23:35 expect these types of laws to pop up. Um
23:37 starting at the federal level, remember
23:39 we've got a dual a dual system going on.
23:40 So, you got to look at the federal level
23:42 and the state level. The good news is
23:43 there's not too much to report at the
23:45 federal level that's of concern when it
23:48 comes to being um categorized as a
23:50 public accommodation at that point.
23:52 There are a couple of nuanced areas that
23:53 you want to look at more carefully.
23:56 Especially, I would add if you're doing
23:58 overnight housing accommodations, rescue
24:01 mission, maybe even a camp um type of
24:03 thing. There could be certain housing
24:06 related laws that are implicated. So,
24:07 not quite the same as a public
24:09 accommodation, but very similar concept.
24:11 So please talk to us if that's of a
24:13 concern for you in your context. But
24:14 typically if you're a church, your
24:16 school, you're listening, not too much
24:18 to worry about at the federal level. So
24:20 now let's zero into your state. You
24:23 know, where are you located? At the
24:25 state level, um you could see some
24:27 states impose a sweeping public
24:30 accommodation um legal framework on the
24:33 entire state. More commonly though, and
24:35 what's often overlooked is going to be
24:38 these regulations and ordinances that
24:41 crop up at the hyper local level. So
24:43 getting really granular down to your
24:46 city commission, county commission or
24:48 city council, however, you know, if
24:50 you're in a township, however it's
24:52 organized locally, um if you're talking
24:54 with one of us about a live facility use
24:56 issue, it's more often than not going to
24:59 be playing itself out in that very
25:01 localized context within your county or
25:03 city um jurisdiction. So, it's very
25:05 important. I think that's it's a good
25:07 point to keep in mind that um you know
25:09 you might think you're in a state that's
25:11 relatively friendly on a state level
25:14 towards churches and ministries. Um but
25:16 it's always important to examine at the
25:18 very local level to be aware of who are
25:21 the local leaders in your community. Um
25:23 and what type of appetite might they
25:26 have at this current election cycle that
25:28 we're in? um to sort of go after
25:30 churches or ministries and try to sweep
25:33 them up into a maybe broad
25:35 interpretation and application of a
25:38 public accommodations law. Um how can
25:40 that be problematic? For example, um
25:42 there's a couple of categories of legal
25:45 protection that can be folded into
25:47 public accommodations laws. For example,
25:50 sexual orientation and gender identity.
25:53 um if you are in a locality where that
25:57 is implicated and if your building your
25:59 facility could meet the definition of a
26:01 place of public accommodation, you want
26:04 to be very aware of that. Um some public
26:05 accommodations laws, they all look a
26:07 little different. So, we've got to get
26:09 in there and evaluate the context
26:11 individually every time we're looking at
26:14 one of these issues. Um sometimes there
26:16 are exemptions that are built in to the
26:18 actual law. For example, maybe for a
26:20 church, there might be an outright
26:22 exemption and then that's great.
26:24 Sometimes there's no clear exemption and
26:25 you're just working with the definition
26:28 itself and trying to determine how is
26:30 that definition applied in your locality
26:32 and could you meet the definition. If
26:35 you're a church doing typical missional
26:37 things that a church would do, our
26:39 position would be that typically a
26:42 church should not be triggering a public
26:44 accommodations type of law or
26:45 regulation. But like I said, we do have
26:47 to look at it closely. If you're a
26:48 ministry or let's say you're a rescue
26:50 mission, you're very open to the public.
26:54 You're you're serving a function in the
26:56 case of rescue missions that essentially
26:59 um replaces or duplicates arguably a
27:01 government function um to house and
27:04 clothe and shelter the needy in the
27:06 community. Um that you can definitely
27:08 get tangled up. The risk increases to
27:10 get um folded into these public
27:12 accommodations laws. So awareness is the
27:14 key. Um Pat, anything you would add on
27:17 the public accommodations front?
27:19 >> No, I think that's it. It's just be be
27:21 attentive to where you are. I often uh
27:23 use example of Joseph when he comes out
27:27 of Egypt with Jesus and Mary. Um and
27:29 he's like, "Oh, Archelaus is in power
27:30 here. I'm going to like he's just he's
27:33 attentive to the dynamics in the
27:35 community and the precise context that
27:37 he's in." And when we're shephering our
27:40 own, you know, ministry families and
27:41 communities, we just want to be
27:44 attentive. Um, and as as you pointed
27:46 out, Val, these statutes,
27:49 they can follow a similar pattern. Um,
27:50 but the way in which they're interpreted
27:53 or likely to be interpreted or the
27:55 precise language that's used can
27:57 certainly shift depending upon your
27:59 location. And sometimes a ministry can
28:02 think, oh, I'm in this area that feels
28:04 very comfortable and safe to be a
28:07 Christian ministry. Um, but your
28:10 locality might have some laws that
28:11 you're not aware of or some ordinances.
28:13 And it's it's helpful to be aware that
28:15 there's federal, state, and municipal
28:18 law, all of which apply to you. Um, and
28:19 and you should just be cognizant of what
28:22 those dynamics are. Um, but it's uh it's
28:24 idiosyncratic. It's hard to speak about
28:27 broadly. Um, other than that, you know,
28:29 the general, you just got to look what
28:32 it says and look at your circumstances.
28:35 >> Great. Now Val, let's let's address some
28:37 of the tax implications. I know a lot of
28:39 churches and ministries worry about
28:43 their 501c3 tax status. Uh and so could
28:46 you maybe uh explain how could a wider
28:49 use of their facilities risk property
28:52 tax or e or either their income tax status?
28:53 status?
28:56 >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we won't get too
28:58 deep in the weeds here on that, but I
29:01 think the broad concept to be aware of,
29:03 and I like the word attentive that Pat
29:05 used, I'll borrow I'll borrow on that.
29:09 Um, to be attentive to the reality that
29:10 when you start using your property in
29:13 certain ways, and specifically the easy
29:14 test to ask yourself is, are you
29:17 charging a fee for anything at your
29:19 property? Let's say you're running a
29:21 local the trunk or treat example I
29:23 mentioned recently. If you're charging a
29:26 fee for admission, $5 ticket entry, you
29:28 know, look at that. And let's say you're
29:30 running a church that has a coffee shop
29:32 in the front and you're charging for
29:34 lattes and cappuccinos before the
29:36 service. Um, or maybe a little bookstore
29:37 and you're, you know, you might just be
29:39 charging wholesale. But regardless,
29:40 there's a variety of contexts where you
29:42 might be charging a fee. Let's say
29:44 you're hosting a wedding and you've got
29:47 a reasonable fee that you charge for the
29:49 use of the facility and to chip in for
29:51 maintenance cost and all those things.
29:53 Um, those are all scenarios that do
29:55 trigger a variety of tax implications.
29:58 And we just want to encourage you to
29:59 make sure that you're working closely
30:02 with a qualified CPA, an accountant,
30:04 somebody on the financial side who's
30:06 helping to manage your tax exposure to
30:07 make sure that you're filing the right
30:09 forms, that you've got a good strategy
30:10 in place, then and you're aware of
30:12 what's tripping the trigger for what.
30:15 So, the um, yubit is a common phrase,
30:19 unrelated business income tax. um is
30:20 that it's not that you can't do it, but
30:22 there's a way you should have a good
30:23 strategy in place for how to manage it
30:26 and how to how to manage the compliance
30:28 elements of that. That's one element of
30:31 tax implication. Another main element
30:34 would be looking at your state or even
30:38 local property tax exemption um
30:41 framework uh where you want to know and
30:43 be secure in your awareness about
30:46 whether you qualify for an exemption and
30:48 on what grounds and is the purported use
30:50 of your facility um potentially
30:53 compromising your ability to access that
30:55 benefit. So, I won't get too much more
30:57 in the weeds there than that, but we do
30:59 um help members frequently, you know,
31:00 look into those issues at a high level
31:03 and then encourage you to consult with a
31:06 tax professional as needed.
31:08 >> Great. Uh Pat, a huge issue. You've
31:11 already talked about it. Uh it it comes
31:14 up when it comes to child safety. It's a
31:16 big concern for churches and ministries.
31:18 So, what are some of the considerations
31:20 uh uh church and ministry leaders should
31:23 take when it comes to child safety?
31:26 Yeah. So, I want to answer that. I just
31:28 had a thought to piggyback what Val was
31:29 just saying.
31:31 >> Please do. Go ahead.
31:34 >> Jump in on that real quick. Uh I And I
31:36 think with all of those risks, it's not
31:38 like there's public accommodations, tax
31:40 implications. There's no silver bullet
31:42 to these things. Particularly in some of
31:45 the tax frameworks, you're talking about
31:47 digging into the nuances of either the
31:50 tax code or your local statutory tax
31:52 exemption. And there can be a lot of
31:56 nuance there. However, as a very general
31:58 concept to help mitigate all of those
32:02 risks to some extent um that threshold
32:04 discernment we talked about of hey
32:07 anchor your decision about how your
32:09 facility is used in a theological
32:12 discernment and how this is
32:14 substantially related to your religious
32:16 mission and your religious purpose. how
32:19 it's designed and based on a discernment
32:22 to affectuate your religious mission.
32:25 That threshold discernment well
32:27 articulated in your documents and your
32:30 policies is only going to help in each
32:32 of those contexts. Uh again, not a
32:34 silver bullet, doesn't eliminate risk,
32:37 but it's only going to help. And so
32:39 while we emphasize at the beginning,
32:41 hey, this theological discernment is
32:42 good because we don't want to forget
32:44 about it in the mix of all the
32:46 considerations a ministry is taking into
32:48 account with stewardship, property
32:51 stewardship. Um, it also has a benefit.
32:54 It also has a a downstream impact with
32:56 helping to mitigate uh some of these
32:59 risks. So no silver bullet, but it does
33:01 help to anchor yourself there um with
33:03 with all those risks. Then you have
33:05 child safety. And I, as mentioned
33:07 earlier, I would cabin this under
33:11 general risk management where child
33:14 protection is a particularly important
33:16 aspect of that risk management which
33:20 deserves special attention. Um, and when
33:22 you're talking about child protection
33:26 um, policies that in regard to facility
33:28 use, I'd say there's maybe two initial
33:32 levels of questions. First, do you host
33:36 youth events internal to your ministry?
33:38 So, for a lot of churches and
33:40 ministries, the answer is going to be
33:41 yes. Particularly churches, you might
33:44 have a youth group, Sunday school, other
33:48 children's ministries. Um, and so
33:50 identifying, okay, we are going to have
33:53 internal youth events at our property.
33:55 Then you're going to want your own
33:58 internal child protection policies. And
33:59 you're going to want to think about how
34:02 do we document which children were at
34:05 what events? Um what kind of ratios do
34:08 we need? Are there certain parts of our
34:09 facility that are going to be off limits
34:12 to youth events because they're not
34:14 conducive to openness and clear sight
34:17 lines. Um you want to you want to train
34:19 everybody on um mandatory reporting
34:21 obligations and maybe you're going to
34:23 have even higher reporting obligations
34:26 than what's statutoily required. Um,
34:28 these are all considerations you're
34:29 going to want to have internal to your
34:32 ministry. The second level would then
34:34 be, okay, are we going to allow outside
34:36 groups to have youth events on our
34:38 property? Are we going to let that
34:41 organization host a youth event on our
34:44 facilities? And if so, what expectations
34:47 are you going to impose? Um, are you
34:48 going to push down your old your own
34:52 child protection policies? Um or perhaps
34:55 uh perhaps it's even more prudent to
34:58 require them to have their own and maybe
35:01 meet some minimum um standards such as
35:04 hey, you can't be in these parts of the
35:06 property. You can't have overnight
35:09 events. Um you have to make sure you're
35:12 minimum maintaining this ratio of child
35:14 to adult. you know, there's different
35:16 ways that you can kind of either push
35:18 down or require outside youth events to
35:20 comply with some minimum standards and
35:23 maybe have some of their own as well.
35:25 But the point is, do you want to take on
35:29 that risk um as part of your ministry in
35:31 your mission? And if so, make sure
35:35 you're taking steps to account for this
35:37 um really important really it's an
35:39 important part of just good good
35:41 stewardship of the ministry generally
35:44 but certainly is um an important risk an
35:47 unfortunate but important risk factor um
35:49 for churches and ministries today as
35:51 well. Um, and then I would say, you
35:54 know, you have a whole collection of
35:57 other general risk management questions
36:00 um that are going to be having to do
36:03 with what kind of um activities are on
36:04 your property. Does your property have
36:08 water? Do you have like a giant pond um
36:11 that's in the back of your church? Um do
36:13 you have a massive playground with a
36:16 huge rock wall? Um, and if so, who's
36:18 allowed to use it under what
36:21 circumstances? Um, you might want to be
36:23 talking to your insurance company and
36:25 understanding understanding what's
36:27 covered. What kind of coverage do you
36:29 have? Is there anything that's excluded
36:32 from your policy coverage with regard to
36:34 third parties? Um, you're going to want
36:36 to think about what responsibilities do
36:38 I have to maintain these parts of the
36:42 property or um keep them off limits to
36:45 in some circumstances. Um and and then
36:47 there's obviously ways to mitigate some
36:50 of those risks like general waiverss and
36:53 releases. Um with a third party, you
36:55 might require them to indemnify and hold
36:58 harmless or maintain their own insurance
36:59 policy that covers their use of the
37:01 facility. Um there's different ways to
37:03 account for this. What I would encourage
37:05 you to do is to talk to your insurance
37:07 company to understand what your coverage
37:09 is and they might even have some
37:12 documents or samples that um they prefer
37:14 you to use for waiverss, releases, and
37:16 things like that. So, that's probably a
37:17 good starting point once you've really
37:19 understood, oh yeah, we have some of
37:21 these risks on our property and we
37:23 really want to account for them. Um so
37:25 all of that I would put under general
37:27 risk management, child protection
37:31 internal and external and then um other
37:33 general risk management that really
37:34 great starting point is your insurance company.
37:36 company.
37:38 >> Great. Now I know this is a lot of
37:40 information you you just received from
37:44 Val and Val and Pat. So just a quick
37:46 reminder uh we have a brand new facility
37:49 use policy guide. uh we can put the link
37:52 in the chat and also you can also a
37:55 access that new facility use guide and
37:57 uh sample sample uh documents and
37:59 statements for facility use policy on
38:02 the membersonly site. And once again, if
38:05 you're having any issues um getting into
38:08 the membersonly site, you can you can
38:12 email us at at ADF uh ADFurch allian uh
38:13 church alliance I should say at
38:15 adflegal.org. Once again, Church
38:19 Alliance at adfleal.org.
38:22 Okay, deep breath. All right, next we're
38:23 going to talk a little bit about
38:28 policies and procedures. Uh so, Val, you
38:30 mentioned the importance of grounding
38:33 your discernment about who can use your
38:36 ministry facilities in your ministry's
38:39 uh religious mission. Can you talk a bit
38:43 about how to develop a strong policy?
38:46 Yes, absolutely. And you know, if we
38:47 were doing this live at a conference,
38:49 this is probably when we'd break, do a
38:51 little seventh inning stretch break. You
38:52 know, I realize we've been kind of
38:54 getting deep through these topics, but
38:56 we are just so excited about this guide
38:59 because not only have we reashioned the
39:02 facility use guide in response to the
39:04 perceived need of our members and the
39:06 amount of questions we get on facility
39:08 use, I hope the guide will be an even
39:11 greater asset to you as you're working
39:12 through these issues within your church
39:15 or ministry. But we've also revamped our
39:17 templates. So, so if you've been with us
39:19 a while, um this is really exciting
39:21 because um I want to be clear, there's
39:23 not necessarily a right and a wrong way
39:25 to approach a facility use policy.
39:27 Having one is better than not having one
39:30 as long as you plan to follow it. That's
39:31 sometimes it's worse to have a policy
39:33 and not follow it than but that's a
39:34 different that's a whole different
39:36 conversation. If you've been with us a
39:37 while and you're familiar with our
39:39 templates which are linked there through
39:42 the membersonly site and um there's a QR
39:44 code too within the guide to reach
39:47 those. Um you might recall that in the
39:49 past we've had one document that kind of
39:51 was a one-stop shop and served a few
39:53 different purposes. Um there's some
39:55 latitude in how you design and craft a
39:58 policy, but there are so many good legal
40:02 benefits for getting your philosophy and
40:05 your framework in writing. Um, and then
40:07 there's another layer of benefits with
40:10 potentially um, organizing how you
40:12 design the policy and how you structure
40:13 it. So, I'm going to get a little bit
40:15 into the weeds there to help walk you
40:17 through. We won't walk through all the
40:18 new templates, but if you check those
40:19 out and then you have some questions
40:21 about it or if you want to do a refresh
40:23 on your facilities policy, by all means,
40:24 reach out to us. Just put it in the
40:26 intake and we'll be glad to connect you
40:29 with one of our attorneys. Um, what
40:31 we're recommending, and you'll see this
40:34 in page 19 of the new guide, um, is to
40:37 consider breaking your your policy into
40:39 three basic components. So, the first
40:42 one, um, would look like an internal
40:44 facing policy, one that's just for you,
40:47 your eyes only, so to speak, within your
40:48 church or ministry. You're not putting
40:50 that on your website. You're not putting
40:51 out there for the whole world to see.
40:54 that's to help guide you and undergard
40:56 your reasoning, some of your spiritual
40:58 philosophy and discernment for how you
40:59 feel God's called you to use your
41:02 policy. Um, and and kind of really
41:03 touches into the levels. What type of
41:06 level church do you want to be and why?
41:09 The second document um would be your
41:12 external facing policy, the one that's
41:14 out there perhaps on your website or
41:16 perhaps just as people reach out to you,
41:18 you would just email it to them or you'd
41:19 have a hard copy at the front desk,
41:21 whatever your context looks like. But
41:25 this would be um a similar but more um
41:28 outward-facing designed policy um that's
41:30 set up in a way to help the outside
41:33 world understand the parameters, the
41:35 philosophy and the process by which you
41:39 can apply to um you know have some sort
41:43 of limited use of your facility. So that
41:45 could look like it could look like two
41:46 pieces. It could look like a copy of the
41:49 policy, maybe a watered down or
41:51 streamlined version of your internal
41:53 policy, that first document. But then
41:55 also, ideally, um, you would have an
41:58 application form. So, if you're running
42:01 a type of um if you if within your
42:04 levels of your facility you're in one of
42:06 those levels that makes makes your usage
42:08 open to outside groups or outside
42:10 individuals, best practices would
42:12 dictate that you'd have some sort of
42:14 application and approval process for
42:16 that. And then I want to explain with
42:19 the application form why it can be very
42:21 helpful. Not required. So, don't hear
42:22 what I'm not saying. I'm not saying it's
42:24 required to have all three of these
42:27 pieces. Um but there's an advantage to
42:28 having a third piece and that would be
42:32 the actual agreement. Um once you've
42:34 reached the application phase of the
42:35 process and then ideally there's an
42:39 approval piece to that then finally the
42:41 third step would be to enter into an
42:43 actual agreement. And let me just
42:46 quickly um Pat, I might be jumping ahead
42:47 a little bit, but I was just thinking
42:49 about a member I've been working with
42:51 over the last few weeks that um there
42:54 was a little bit of ambiguity as to
42:57 whether the application form constituted
42:58 the agreement, but just for example,
43:00 just by the submitting the application
43:02 and it's returned back to you, does that
43:04 put you under contract? Are you
43:06 contractually bound at that point? And
43:07 there was a bit of an open question
43:09 there. So recommendation there for that
43:11 ministry going forward is hey there
43:13 could be some value to you of separating
43:15 out these two pieces to have an
43:17 application form that the outside user
43:21 fills out submits. Then ideally through
43:22 your internal policy you've already
43:24 designated you've pre-desated who's the
43:26 person or the body of people the group
43:28 of people within your organization
43:30 that's going to be receiving and doing
43:32 the discernment and making the decision
43:35 about the application. and then and only
43:37 then do you move into the formal signed
43:39 agreement which at that point has
43:43 contractual um implications. So Pat,
43:46 would you add anything to that?
43:48 >> I I think that's exactly right. I think
43:50 in that application and the outward
43:52 facing piece, you're just kind of being
43:55 clear maybe in describing the process
44:00 for the applicant to say, hey, um this
44:02 is an application. this does not an
44:04 agreement is not reached until it's been
44:06 reviewed and approved and I kind of
44:08 outline here's the steps that still need
44:11 to happen. Um, and I think writing that
44:14 out has the benefit of you knowing, oh
44:16 yeah, I have to do these following steps
44:17 and that's the point at which I'm
44:20 approving it. And also if they know,
44:22 okay, I'm just submitting and it's not
44:25 until XYZ happens. Um, I submit my
44:28 deposit, I receive, you know, an email
44:31 confirming and then I submit my deposit
44:34 like what are the steps? Um and that
44:36 gives you some internal clarity and it
44:38 gives them some clarity about what what
44:41 is required before they can really rely
44:44 on um a sense that they they've got the
44:47 facility reserved. So I echo echo that 100%.
44:53 >> Yeah. Um, so Pat, you've already kind
44:54 you've already kind of touched on on the
44:58 kind of the outward facing uh policy uh
45:00 and its application uh and what
45:04 accompany it accompanies it. Um, now I
45:07 know there there are some rules some uh
45:10 certain rules of val as well. Uh what
45:12 are some of the rules that may be
45:14 prudent to consider as churches and
45:17 ministries are developing uh these both
45:20 internal and outward policies?
45:22 Yeah, that's a great question and I had
45:24 a conversation yesterday with a church
45:26 about that. Um, and it really can be
45:29 unique to each church or ministry and it
45:31 depends on the type of property you
45:33 have. For example, if you have
45:35 playground equipment or swimming pool on
45:36 the site, you're going to have a whole
45:39 set of detailed rules around that. Um,
45:42 but I think first and foremost, uh,
45:43 which is kind of a running theme that we
45:45 have, it's very helpful to ground your
45:47 rules in your religious beliefs to
45:49 whatever extent you can. Um and then
45:50 also the second thing and this was a
45:52 conversation I was having yesterday with
45:54 a member to not assume that your
45:58 religious beliefs um would that there
46:00 would be an automatic understanding
46:02 based on your beliefs to an outside user
46:04 or even an internal [clears throat] user
46:06 frankly a church member just because
46:08 they know what you believe. Don't don't
46:10 make the mistake of assuming that they
46:12 know the implications of those beliefs
46:14 and that they can predict what specific
46:16 rules you're expecting to be followed at
46:18 your facility. So, let me give a couple
46:20 examples. That church was looking at
46:22 should they have some prescriptive rules
46:26 around alcohol use on the facility? Um,
46:28 and drug use. I mean, that one's a
46:29 little bit more clear-cut because there
46:31 are other laws um regulating drug use,
46:33 too. But alcohol use is a big one.
46:35 Especially consider churches that host
46:37 weddings frequently and you might host a
46:40 reception on your site. Um, and that is
46:41 first and foremost a theological
46:44 consideration for your governing board
46:46 or body to carefully think through what
46:48 do you want your rules and parameters to
46:50 be there and then write those down. Um,
46:52 you might have some ideas about dress
46:54 code and what's appropriate on your
46:55 facility, especially as you started
46:57 opening up to outside users or I'm
46:59 thinking about a school context. Um,
47:00 you're open up to the football game. Are
47:03 you going to have a standard of dress um
47:05 in those evening football games that
47:07 parallels your standards for dress
47:09 during the day? maybe, you know, uniform
47:11 or otherwise.
47:14 Um, there could be specific rules about
47:16 bingo or other types of arguably
47:18 gambling related activities on a
47:21 premises. Um, use of candles. I've seen
47:24 things about no red dye, you know, um
47:26 maybe no coffee in the sanctuary.
47:27 Churches, that's a big thing. You know,
47:29 you're a coffee church or you're not a
47:30 coffee church. You know, can you bring
47:32 it in the sanctuary? Do you have carpet?
47:33 Do you have a hard floor? Um, those are
47:35 things that are just of course going to
47:37 be unique to you, but it's important to
47:38 spell them out. And for the handful of
47:40 rules that have some biblical
47:42 implications, um, and they really derive
47:44 from your beliefs, it can be helpful to
47:46 throw in some scriptural support or a
47:48 citation for those types of rules, too.
47:51 Um, specifically, for example, when it
47:53 comes to restrooms, you've got to think
47:55 through carefully in this day and age,
47:56 especially if you're in one of those
47:58 jurisdictions that we mentioned that
48:00 might have some laws that are very
48:03 protective of gender identity as a legal
48:05 category. Um, then you want to think
48:07 carefully about the structure of the
48:09 restrooms on your site. Are they
48:11 multi-stall? Do you have single single
48:13 user available? What's your signage
48:15 around that? Um, and you might have an
48:17 internal policy. Um, and you may or may
48:19 not have certain signage that lines up
48:20 with that. But it's important to start
48:22 with your internal policies, start with
48:24 the spiritual discernment, connect the
48:27 dots on those things in your documents.
48:29 We talk about that a lot to connect your
48:32 religious um views and beliefs to any
48:34 rules that are specific. For example, if
48:36 you have showers, overnight facilities,
48:39 private changing areas, multi-stall
48:43 restrooms, you might feel that your um
48:45 sincere religious beliefs dictate that
48:48 the use of those places is going to be
48:50 separated by biological sex. And then
48:52 you want to think through how do you
48:54 articulate that? Where do you spell that
48:55 out in the policies? And especially any
48:57 contracts or agreements you might have
49:00 with outside users coming in.
49:03 >> Got it. Now Pat, uh, with those rules
49:05 and everything you guys really have just
49:08 laid out over the past, uh, uh, the past
49:11 hour or so, let's get to this. And we
49:14 talk about consistency a lot in CMA for
49:17 our members. How important uh, is
49:20 consistency in applying this policy and
49:23 uh, what are some of the practical tips
49:25 to help ensure consistency in making
49:27 sure that they that churches and
49:30 ministries are applying the policy?
49:32 Well, consistency is very important. Uh,
49:34 one of the lines we like to say is
49:37 consistency is evidence of sincerity.
49:39 When you say, "Hey, this is how we see
49:42 our property." Um, it's really important
49:44 that our property be used this way and
49:45 it's really important that these rules
49:48 be followed. When you consistently are
49:50 requiring that and you're following that
49:54 ethos um over time, then it shows it
49:56 advinces that you really do believe this
49:58 um that you really do mean this and
50:01 there really is a moral and religious
50:04 obligation that you sense which requires
50:06 you to operate in this way. practical
50:09 tips for how to achieve that is really
50:14 just having very sound processes in that
50:17 your policy lives inside of. Um, one of
50:18 the things I like to say is that bad
50:22 process squanders good documents often.
50:25 Um, you could have the greatest most
50:28 articulate facility use policy that's
50:31 ever been known to mankind. Um, but if
50:34 the person who's working the front desk
50:37 doesn't actually know how to respond to
50:40 an inquiry about using your facility,
50:42 then you could end up in a very awkward
50:44 situation which could have been avoided
50:47 by just a more stable process. So, um,
50:49 training your staff in, hey, if you ever
50:52 receive a request about using our
50:55 facility, um, just say thanks for your
50:58 inquiry. here's the application and the
51:00 policy and kind of put the onus on them
51:02 to meet the requirements that you've
51:04 taken time to really thoughtfully
51:07 articulate rather than I mean everybody
51:09 really wants to be helpful and so the
51:11 person who answers the phone really
51:13 wants to be helpful that's a beautiful
51:16 and good impulse that we want um
51:18 everybody in the body of Christ to have
51:20 uh but it's also helpful to have some
51:23 training and say hey um the most helpful
51:25 thing to do in this situation
51:27 is to be able to point them in this
51:31 direction. Um, have responses prepared
51:35 for how you decline somebody. Um, have
51:38 it be have people be really wellversed
51:41 in understanding that they can't say,
51:43 "Oh, yeah, the calendar is wide open
51:44 that day. That shouldn't be any
51:47 problem." Um, instead saying, "We have a
51:50 process. Um, we we're so excited you're
51:52 considering our our facility. um fill
51:54 out this application and then it has to
51:57 be approved by our elder board or by um
51:59 ministry leadership whoever is the
52:02 decision maker. So clear uh expectations
52:04 for the people who are responding to the
52:07 requests, clear processes for what they
52:09 do with an application and who makes
52:14 decisions, clear uh guidelines for how
52:17 the person makes the the decision maker
52:19 decides whether it's the use is
52:22 compatible with your policy. and then um
52:25 kind of prepared communications for
52:28 responding to that application. Um those
52:30 types of thinking through those types of
52:34 practical policy uh lived experiences of
52:37 the policy is really helpful in just
52:39 kind of safeguarding all the hard work
52:41 you do and drafting it and then making
52:43 sure it's consistently applied over
52:45 time. And I would say more often than
52:48 not that is um when we've had a had a
52:51 member reach out that has tended to be
52:53 kind of the the place where there was
52:56 maybe um a misstep of some sort was just
52:59 oh we we just didn't know um how to
53:01 respond to that. So thinking through
53:04 process um and having clear expectations
53:06 for all those involved is really helpful
53:08 in just safeguarding it and and
53:10 consistently applying it.
53:13 >> Yeah, absolutely. Well, Val and Pat,
53:14 thank you so much for your expertise.
53:18 Uh, I know there uh members uh may have
53:19 some additional questions and we'll give
53:21 you some information on how to get in
53:23 contact with us once again. But first of
53:25 all, members, thank you so much for
53:28 attending this webinar. Uh we are we are
53:31 so blessed to be able to serve you uh
53:33 and to make sure that you're empowered
53:37 to live out boldly uh your mission and
53:38 continue to serve people with the with
53:42 the gospel of Jesus Christ. Uh, a couple
53:43 of things. First of all, we want to
53:45 encourage you at the end of this, there
53:47 will be a survey that will appear. We
53:50 encourage you to uh take that survey. It
53:52 helps us know how we can serve you
53:54 better and provide content that is
53:56 relevant to you. In addition, as we
53:59 already mentioned, uh the link to the
54:02 facility use policy guide. I think we
54:04 could post that maybe one more time uh
54:06 before we leave. And also remember if
54:09 you have any questions about accessing
54:12 the membersonly site or uh or anything
54:14 um any of the documents or resources
54:16 that we have on the membersonly site and
54:19 you don't know how to access it, please
54:22 contact us at churchalliance adfleal.org.
54:24 adfleal.org.
54:26 Once again, that's churchalliance adfleal.org.
54:32 Um and uh Val and Pat before we go, do
54:34 you have any final thoughts before uh
54:37 before we let our members go?
54:40 >> Oh, I had one um that came to me, Pat,
54:42 while you were talking. Actually, I was
54:44 glad that you mentioned um I just want
54:46 to say a hearty amen to everything you
54:48 said about process. Um but I just wanted
54:50 to highlight something in the guide at
54:53 page 25. Um we've provided for you a
54:55 couple of ideas of language you could
54:57 consider. is that there's no magic
54:59 language, no silver bullet as Pat
55:01 mentioned before, but I just want it's
55:02 important to me for churches and
55:04 ministries to remember that you can feel
55:07 empowered by the use of your facilities
55:08 that God's given you a space whether you
55:10 own the property or maybe you're
55:12 subleting, you're leasing a space. Um
55:14 this is a sanctified place that God's
55:16 given you to carry out your unique
55:18 mission and your religious calling. And
55:22 we receive um inquiries from members um
55:25 not infrequently with um a very
55:27 understandable amount of panic or fear
55:29 about oh no I got this request and how
55:31 do I respond? First of all there's an
55:32 opportunity to get ahead of it with a
55:34 clear process. So that can eliminate
55:36 some of the emotional reaction to it.
55:39 But second of all um be empowered feel
55:41 empowered. You can say no to request if
55:43 you're uncomfortable. Ideally it'll fit
55:46 within the fra a beautiful framework
55:47 like Pat mentioned. we can help you with
55:49 some nice language and organization of
55:51 your policy. We've got our templates for
55:53 that. But at the end of the day, um if
55:56 you need to decline a request, just
55:57 remember you don't have to give a reason
55:59 necessarily. You can look at some of
56:01 that sample language I just wanted to
56:03 mention on page 25 to and I would
56:05 encourage you to consider um in your
56:07 process to have just some generic
56:08 language that's already prepared and
56:10 consistently used. That might help you
56:13 manage um the you know the variety of
56:16 requests that you can receive.
56:18 Yeah, and I would I would just echo that
56:20 and say, "We also want to work with you.
56:22 These new the new templates that are
56:25 out. Um they're they're annotated and so
56:26 there's places where it's like, hey,
56:28 this is optional or note, you might want
56:30 to consider this." And um there's some
56:32 instructions that are describing, hey,
56:34 this was written with the mindset of a
56:36 level two use based on the guide. Um but
56:38 we want to we want to go through it with
56:39 you. We want to accompany you in this
56:41 discernment process. So, please don't
56:44 hesitate to reach out. Um, work with us,
56:46 talk to us, and and we're happy to run
56:48 through more hypotheticals, think
56:50 through it, and then help you um come up
56:52 with the language that really meets your
56:55 discernment of of God's call.
56:57 >> Awesome. Well, members, thank you once
56:59 again for joining us today. God bless
57:00 you. Continue to preach the gospel with
