0:02 If adding another social media to your
0:03 plate sounds like the straw that will
0:04 break the camel's back, you're not
0:06 alone. You have to create new content
0:07 for this social media, build your
0:09 following from scratch, and learn the
0:11 best practices and strategies. It sounds
0:13 extremely overwhelming. And this is the
0:16 exact mindset that I have been having in
0:18 regards to Pinterest over the last few
0:20 years. And in the back of my head, I've
0:22 been thinking, is Pinterest really even
0:24 worth it? Like when I think of the major
0:26 social media apps, I admittedly oftent
0:29 times leave Pinterest off the list. I
0:30 mentioned things like Tik Tok and
0:32 Instagram and YouTube, but oftent times
0:34 Pinterest doesn't even come to mind. But
0:36 with all of that being said, it's
0:37 important to recognize a few things.
0:39 Number one, Pinterest has been around
0:41 for quite a while. It's not one of these
0:44 flashin the pan social media apps that's
0:45 super popular one month and then no
0:48 one's using it a month later. Pinterest
0:50 has been around for a long time and I
0:52 use Pinterest and my wife uses Pinterest
0:54 and when I talk to people about planning
0:56 for their wedding or looking up recipes,
0:59 they oftentimes reference finding things
1:01 on Pinterest. But there's one really
1:03 huge misconception that I had going into
1:04 today's interview. And I'm going to
1:06 guess it's a misconception that you have
1:08 had as well, and that is that Pinterest
1:11 honestly isn't even a social media app.
1:13 You're not necessarily wrong to define
1:15 it as such, but I think that after
1:16 today's interview, I would categorize
1:19 Pinterest as a search engine kind of
1:21 more along the lines of YouTube or even
1:23 Google. Also, from today's interview, I
1:24 found out that the way that I have
1:25 personally been using Pinterest for the
1:28 last few years was, let's call it
1:30 misguided. Today on the show, our guest
1:33 is none other than Jenna Kutcher. You
1:34 might be a part of her over 1 million
1:36 Instagram followers, but I bet you
1:38 didn't know that she was generating
1:40 thousands of leads per month for her
1:42 business using Pinterest and using a
1:45 strategy that takes only about an hour
1:47 per week. I'm so excited to get to pick
1:49 her brain in today's episode. And
1:51 honestly, it's quite selfish of me to do
1:53 so because I've been wanting some
1:55 coaching around Pinterest myself. And
1:58 after today's episode, I am absolutely
2:00 going allin on Pinterest, especially
2:02 considering that going allin isn't going
2:04 to cost me more than 60 minutes. So,
2:06 without further ado, here's our interview.
2:11 Hello, Jenno. Welcome to today's
2:13 episode. Hey, thanks so much for having
2:15 me. I am so excited for this
2:17 conversation. Um, because, you know,
2:19 admittedly, often times in these convos,
2:21 you have to kind of pretend as the
2:22 interviewer that you don't know what
2:24 you're talking about. Yes. But I know
2:26 very little of what I'm talking about
2:27 today. Today we're going to be talking
2:29 all about Pinterest, which is something
2:31 that you've been jamming out on
2:33 recently. You know, we'll get into all
2:35 of the missteps and mistakes that I am
2:38 definitely making. Um, so let's just get
2:40 right into it. You know, why should I or
2:42 why should any small business owner
2:45 listening today care about Pinterest?
2:46 Because Jenna, they're probably like,
2:48 "Oh my gosh, I have so much going on
2:50 with Instagram and Facebook and Tik Tok
2:52 and YouTube, and now you want me to add
2:54 Pinterest, so why should I care?" Okay,
2:57 so first things first, Pinterest will
2:59 never take away from the work that
3:01 you're already doing. What it's going to
3:04 do is elongate the lifespan of that work
3:07 that you are creating and it's going to
3:10 turn like minutes and moments into
3:13 months. And so how I like to see it is
3:15 this is not about adding more to your
3:18 plate. It's about digging for gold in
3:20 the gold mine that you are likely
3:22 sitting on and also just helping your
3:25 work work for you. And so before anyone
3:28 panics and they're like not another
3:30 strategy, not another platform, I can't
3:33 do it. All I'm asking you to do is
3:36 reallocate one hour of your life each
3:38 week to this strategy. and it's going to
3:41 turn all of your work into something
3:43 that's working for you. Gotcha. Okay, I
3:45 can um I can get with that. There's
3:47 actually this post that I've this
3:48 graphic that I posted a few times on
3:51 Instagram talking about the average
3:53 lifespan, so to speak, of a post. And
3:55 there's two things that always people
3:57 freak out over when they see that post.
3:59 Number one, the the lifespan of a Tik
4:01 Tok is like they call it immediate
4:03 decay. Basically, immediately once you
4:06 post it, dead on the vine. Exactly. Um,
4:08 but then Pinterest is also on that
4:11 graphic and it's like the longest
4:12 biggest bar on the graphic and people
4:13 are like, "Oh my gosh, I need to get on
4:15 Pinterest." So, what you're saying, I'm
4:17 already like, "Oh, yeah, duh. I've even
4:20 talked about that before, but I haven't
4:23 taken it seriously." So, who should be
4:24 posting on Pinterest? Who should be
4:26 putting their business on Pinterest? And
4:28 is there anyone who like maybe Pinterest
4:30 shouldn't be for them? Okay, this is so
4:32 good. Before we dive into that, I'm
4:33 going to tell you something about the
4:36 lifespan of a pin. So when we think
4:38 about social, a lot of our posts will be
4:41 dead within 48 hours tops, right? That's
4:44 pretty generous in my opinion. Yeah. The
4:47 average lifespan of one pin, one
4:50 singular pin on Pinterest is over 13
4:54 months and that is the halflife. So 13
4:58 months. So one year from now plus, your
4:59 work could still be working for you. So
5:01 I just want to paint that picture. So
5:03 who should be on Pinterest? So, anyone
5:06 that is creating content, and I mean
5:08 literally anyone. It doesn't matter what
5:10 genre you're in. Now, when I say
5:12 content, I'm talking about the stuff
5:14 that Brock talks about all the time.
5:16 Whether you are a podcaster, a YouTuber,
5:19 an Instagram creator, a writer, a
5:21 blogger, like you, what I love about you
5:23 is you'll advocate like Instagram has a
5:25 way for every type of creator to be
5:27 creating on it. So, I would say that
5:29 your audience is a dream for Pinterest
5:30 because they are likely creating
5:33 content. Now, who it's not for is people
5:36 that don't have a clear path. So, you
5:38 might be creating content, but you might
5:40 not have actually figured out, well,
5:42 what is the end result of this content?
5:44 Right? We know general content creators
5:48 who love like the dopamine hit of likes
5:50 and comments, but maybe they don't have
5:52 a through line of like where does this
5:54 lead to and what is valuable in my
5:57 ecosystem, whether it's a subscriber, an
5:59 email subscriber, a sale, a call,
6:01 whatever that looks like. And so if you
6:03 don't actually have something that can
6:06 kind of lead traffic into treasure as I
6:08 like to call it, Pinterest probably
6:10 isn't the best platform for you. And the
6:12 only other thing I would say is if you
6:14 don't want to have your business a year
6:16 from now or 5 years from now, Pinterest
6:18 is also not the platform for you.
6:21 Gotcha. Okay. So then where do we even
6:23 get started with Pinterest? Because I'm
6:25 going to guess that most people here are
6:27 two things. their number one, they have
6:28 a Pinterest account, but they've been
6:30 pinning things for the baby shower, the
6:32 wedding, the, you know, the birthday
6:34 party, whatever, but they've never
6:36 actually used it for business. So, what
6:38 are the steps to get started? Okay, so
6:41 this was me. So, if this is you,
6:43 welcome. You're in good company. U let
6:45 me tell you a quick story about how I
6:46 figured this out because it wasn't even
6:49 me. So, years ago, I was white knuckling
6:50 my business. I was a wedding
6:53 photographer in Wisconsin and I had
6:56 finally released the white knuckle grip
6:58 on my business and said, "I need help."
7:00 Right? Those three words that are so
7:03 hard for all of us to utter. And I hired
7:04 my first virtual assistant. And I will
7:06 never forget the first time we sat down.
7:08 We sat across from each other in this
7:10 small little Wisconsin cafe and she
7:12 goes, "How's Pinterest working for you?"
7:14 And I looked her dead in the eye and I
7:16 was like, "Okay, so let me tell you
7:18 about my clothing board. Oh, it is so on
7:20 point. it's so Parisian chic and let me
7:22 tell you about this house that I'm going
7:23 to build someday. It apparently has 20
7:24 bathrooms. And we were kind of laughing
7:26 and she's like, "No, no, no. Like, how
7:28 is it working for you, like for your
7:30 business?" And I was like, "What are you
7:33 talking about?" And I had no idea that
7:36 the pins that are on the platform are
7:39 brought on by Pinterest users. I feel
7:40 like people go on and browse it and they
7:43 just think like somehow these these
7:44 graphics are there but people don't
7:46 connect the dots that like you can
7:49 import a pin onto Pinterest today. You
7:52 can bring anything onto the platform. So
7:54 the biggest misconception that people
7:56 look at is one that is just for like
7:58 vision boards, right? It's a visual
8:01 search engine and so we love using it to
8:03 plan out vacations and our homes and our
8:05 outfits and all the different things.
8:07 But what we're missing is that we can
8:08 actually become contributors to
8:10 Pinterest. The way that pins get on
8:12 there is from people bringing them onto
8:14 the platform. And so if you are someone
8:17 who is casually pinning, which I love. I
8:19 love Pinterest. I've never felt bad
8:20 about myself after being on Pinterest,
8:23 right? Like I can go on to doom scroll
8:25 on Instagram. I feel like garbage. Like,
8:27 oh, I'm not pretty enough and I'm not
8:29 doing enough. Pinterest. I'm like, wow,
8:31 the the sky's is the limit. But you feel
8:34 inspired. Yes, you do feel inspired. But
8:36 if you are someone who is just passively
8:38 pinning, what I want for you to start
8:40 paying attention to is looking at these
8:41 pins through the lens of somebody put
8:44 this on here, right? The creator did or
8:46 somebody that was inspired by the
8:49 content. Pinterest is not social media.
8:51 And this is where the biggest disconnect
8:54 is. People often group Pinterest in the
8:55 group of the Tik Toks and the
8:57 Instagrams. It's not a this or that. It
9:00 is a totally separate camp. Pinterest is
9:03 a search engine. It is like a modern-day
9:04 pretty Google. When you go into
9:06 Pinterest, you're typing in, you know,
9:09 how to start a business or how to launch
9:11 a podcast or how to find a red dress
9:14 with ruffly sleeves, right? We're using
9:15 it in the way of a search engine, but
9:17 oftent times our brain is disconnecting
9:20 it and telling us it's social media. And
9:22 so, if you're getting started, first pay
9:23 attention just to your user experience
9:25 and acknowledging that somebody brought
9:27 these things on. And then notice what
9:30 you're typing into the search bar and
9:31 how you're leveraging it as a search
9:34 engine. One thing that I love that you
9:36 do so well, Brock, is you often break
9:39 down what Instagram strategy is. So like
9:41 when they launch a new feature, you're
9:43 telling them like, okay, this is why
9:44 they're doing it, and this is their hope
9:47 of it. When we look at Pinterest, what
9:50 their goal is is to actually connect you
9:52 with the end result you're seeking. They
9:54 want to be the connector. They want you
9:56 to click the link and actually go to the
9:58 destination. They want you to get the
10:00 answers and the solutions. A search
10:02 engine's goal is very different than
10:04 social media. Social media wants to keep
10:07 you on the app, keep you scrolling,
10:09 whereas a search engine wants to be the
10:11 bridge that connects you to the solution
10:12 or the answer that you're looking for.
10:15 And so it totally changes the strategy.
10:17 And so a lot of people too, they'll take
10:18 what's working on social media and
10:20 they'll bring it on to the search engine
10:21 and they'll be like, "Well, this doesn't
10:23 work." but they're not actually looking
10:25 through it or looking at it through the
10:27 right lens. Gotcha. Okay. So, let's talk
10:29 about then how do you look through that
10:31 right lens? Because you said a few times
10:33 bringing these pins to Pinterest,
10:35 whether it's you as the creator or
10:37 someone else bringing these pins to
10:39 Pinterest. So, like what does that look
10:40 like? What does that mean? How do we
10:42 actually put that into practice? Okay.
10:45 So, what is incredible about Pinterest
10:49 is that any user can upload a pin and
10:52 when they upload a pin, which is simply
10:55 in most cases just a graphic. When they
10:57 upload the pin, you get to designate
10:59 where you are sending someone to. So,
11:02 you literally get to drop in any URL
11:05 that you want. So, this could be a
11:07 landing page to grow your email list. It
11:08 could be your YouTube channel. It could
11:09 be your podcast. It could be your
11:12 Instagram. It could be your blog, your
11:14 website, your sales page. You can
11:16 literally designate any space that you
11:18 have on the internet, which is pretty
11:21 rare that you can point somebody in any
11:23 direction. So, the other thing about
11:25 Pinterest is that it prioritizes what
11:29 they consider fresh content. Now, fresh
11:31 content doesn't mean that Brock needs to
11:34 publish a new video every single day.
11:36 Fresh content just means that it needs
11:38 to be a variation of something you've
11:42 posted before. So for this episode of
11:45 your podcast, Brock, we could create 10,
11:48 15, 20, 30 different pins that all point
11:52 back to this singular piece of content
11:54 as long as the graphics, the headlines,
11:56 or the visuals are unique. Now, what
11:59 this means in layman's term is if you
12:01 have a good set of templates in Canva
12:03 and you have a slight bit of creativity
12:05 in terms of how you name things or how
12:08 you promote something, you can create an
12:10 unlimited amount of pins that can point
12:14 to one piece of content. This is why
12:16 it's not about adding more to your
12:18 already full plate or creating more
12:21 content. It's about putting a spin on
12:23 your content. And let me ask you this
12:24 real quick, Brock. What would be easier
12:27 for you to do? Go into Canva, leverage a
12:29 template, and create 10 different
12:32 graphics or create a brand new podcast
12:34 episode, the show notes, the social
12:36 clips, and all the things that accompany
12:38 it before you move on to the next. Which
12:40 one's easier? Yeah, obviously 100%
12:43 option A. Yes. And so what's amazing is
12:46 is that I bet your listeners right now
12:49 are sitting on tens or hundreds or even
12:52 thousands of pieces of content that
12:54 could have pins pointing to it. It could
12:56 be stuff that you made a year ago, two
12:59 years ago that you could turn into pins
13:01 to land on the Pinterest platform and
13:04 reach their viewers. So I feel like it
13:06 should give you an exhale of like this
13:08 is really not about doing more. It's
13:11 about making your work work harder with
13:14 just a tiny bit of strategy and effort.
13:15 Gotcha. Okay. So, like I'm
13:17 conceptualizing this, thinking about it.
13:19 It's a search engine. So, it's not
13:20 Instagram where I'm scrolling through
13:23 reals. It's more like Google. But when I
13:25 search something on Google nowadays, I
13:28 get like a big AI response that's never
13:30 helpful. And then I get like a bunch of
13:32 links and URLs and the first seven of
13:34 them are sponsored. And then there's,
13:36 you know, a bunch of of not pretty,
13:37 right? It's just text. It's links and
13:40 headlines. So essentially, is this just
13:42 for, you know, oversimplification
13:45 purposes? These pins on Pinterest are
13:48 the same thing as these links on Google,
13:50 right? These these headlines. The only
13:51 difference is on Pinterest, they're
13:52 visually appealing. Maybe they have a
13:54 graphic or a video, and then they're
13:56 still going to ultimately direct me to
13:58 wherever that final destination is.
14:00 Exactly. Right. And what's awesome is
14:03 that every single word on Pinterest,
14:04 because it's a search engine, is
14:07 searchable. So, if you take some of the
14:09 SEO or search engine optimization
14:11 strategies that you are likely using in
14:14 other places in your business, that's
14:16 all you need is just a tiny bit of
14:18 keyword strategy. So, it could be
14:20 keywords in the graphic itself. It could
14:21 be keywords in the pin title. It could
14:23 be keywords in the description. All
14:25 you're doing is helping Pinterest
14:28 connect people that are looking for your
14:31 work with your work. Gotcha. Okay. So,
14:32 I'll tell you what I've been doing, and
14:34 let me know if this is is a mistake,
14:35 something wrong, something could could
14:37 that could be improved. I use a
14:38 scheduling tool to schedule all of my
14:40 posts for Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook,
14:42 whatever. And I'm logged into my
14:44 Pinterest. So, when I'm clicking on the
14:46 little icons up at the top, I click on
14:48 Pinterest. So, if it's a real that's
14:50 being posted on Instagram, the same
14:52 video is being posted on Pinterest. But,
14:54 I'm not adding a link to send it
14:57 anywhere. So, is that incorrect? Like
15:00 would it be better if I was instead
15:02 having that link back to my Instagram or
15:05 like what's going wrong with my strategy
15:06 there because I've seen like literally
15:09 zero change or results from from doing
15:12 what I'm currently doing. Right. So
15:14 yeah. Okay. So you can keep doing that,
15:16 but I'm going to add just a teeny bit of
15:18 strategy for you. So we are big fans of
15:21 set it and forget it, which is like my
15:23 life. Like that is what I want. I want a
15:25 crock-ot meal and I want strategies that
15:27 I can set and forget. So, if the easiest
15:29 way to get your content onto Pinterest
15:31 is to keep that feature selected so that
15:33 you know it's getting onto the platform,
15:36 that's fantastic. You can keep that on.
15:38 What I would recommend then is setting a
15:40 timer or a reminder for 20 minutes at
15:43 the end of your week to go on to your
15:45 newly uploaded pins and to add a little
15:47 bit of strategy. So, that's where you
15:49 could add in the backlink and you could
15:52 add in a more SEO optimized title and
15:54 description for your pin. Because often
15:55 times when you're using different things
15:58 like Ply or Tailwind or whatever you're
16:00 using to auto schedule, it's not
16:02 optimized for Pinterest in terms of
16:05 searchability. And so if it's easier to
16:06 just have it auto post and then you go
16:09 in and tweak, there's no harm in doing
16:10 that and you're not like tanking your
16:12 ability to get results. There's nothing
16:14 there because again, this is the long
16:16 game. But you'll add in that strategy.
16:18 And so what you can do is you can
16:20 decide, okay, where do I want to send
16:22 this to? What is the best way to send
16:24 it? somewhere where it's traffic, but I
16:26 can turn that into something. I'm the
16:28 biggest fan of sending it to places you
16:30 own on the internet, whether it's a
16:33 website or a blog, versus sending it to
16:34 other platforms where you don't
16:37 necessarily get to capture any sort of
16:40 data or um any of their information. Um,
16:42 but what I would just say is then just
16:45 go in on a Friday, look at the pins that
16:47 automatically uploaded, jump in. You can
16:50 even use chatbt and say, "Write me a
16:51 title for this Instagram caption."
16:53 that's SEO optimized and great for
16:55 Pinterest. Drop those things in and
16:57 designate where you want it to go and
16:59 that's how that content will work for
17:01 you longer than when you just hit
17:03 publish. Does that make sense? Yeah,
17:05 that that totally makes sense and that's
17:07 that's very doable. I want to come back
17:09 to a question around like graphics
17:11 versus videos versus reals. Before I do
17:13 that, this is probably going to be a
17:15 quicker question. Are there any sort of
17:18 account settings or profile things that
17:20 we need to be aware of on Instagram?
17:22 they in Instagram fashion they always
17:24 over complicate it with like you could
17:26 be business, professional, creator,
17:27 personal, private, whatever. Is there
17:29 anything like that that we should be
17:30 aware of or make sure that we set up
17:33 correctly on Pinterest? Yes. So that's a
17:35 fabulous question, Brock. So you want to
17:37 make sure you're a business account. So
17:39 without being a business account, you
17:41 don't have access to analytics and you
17:44 also can't uh make your profile super
17:46 optimized. So with a business account,
17:49 you could have like Brock Johnson,
17:52 Instagram strategy expert as your title.
17:54 And you teach this too with kind of like
17:56 optimizing your bio. It's actually very
17:58 similar to the strategies you teach in
18:01 Instagram in Pinterest. It's just again
18:03 every word that you're putting in there
18:05 is searchable. And so you want to make
18:06 sure the words and phrases that you're
18:09 using both in your title and in your bio
18:11 are very clear. So very similar to what
18:13 you teach there. You also just want to
18:14 have a business account because that
18:16 will give you access to the analytics.
18:18 It'll also unlock a few features like
18:20 linking to your website and different
18:22 things like that as well. It's a super
18:24 easy process. Once you do it once, you
18:26 don't ever have to do it again. And so,
18:28 it just takes a few minutes, but that
18:29 will switch your account from personal
18:31 to business, which will then allow you
18:32 to kind of think a little bit more
18:34 strategically and have more strategy in
18:36 place. Gotcha. Okay. Totally makes
18:37 sense. Back to my question about
18:39 graphics versus videos. Yeah. You
18:41 mentioned earlier having like Canva
18:43 templates. You mentioned uh you said the
18:46 word graphics a few times. Do graphics
18:49 or you know quote unquote still images
18:51 perform better? Is that more of the norm
18:53 and the expectation on Pinterest than
18:55 these 7-second reels that are being
18:57 posted on Instagram? Yes. Okay. So, this
18:59 will maybe give your audience another
19:01 sigh of relief, but I just saw a stat
19:03 that it said like the average reel is
19:04 taking entrepreneurs three to four hours
19:07 based on what they're creating, which I
19:08 haven't made sure, but for me that's
19:11 kind of true. Takes me a long time. Uh,
19:14 but what we've done is like in my
19:16 business is for every podcast episode
19:19 that goes out, I created 10 templates to
19:22 turn one podcast episode into 10
19:24 graphics. One graphic is just the title
19:26 of my show. Then the next graphic is the
19:28 title of my show with my photo. Then the
19:30 next graphic is a pull quote from the
19:32 episode. The next graphic could be an
19:34 infographic. Again, it's just slightly
19:36 varying either the way that you're
19:37 talking about the episode or the way the
19:40 graphic is. One thing that's really
19:42 great about Pinterest is that it's not
19:44 necessarily the popularity contest that
19:47 social media can feel like because users
19:50 on there aren't specifically generally
19:52 typing in your name unless you're super
19:54 well-known. People aren't going onto
19:56 Pinterest and typing in your name. So,
19:59 there's a stat that 96% of searches on
20:02 Pinterest are unbranded searches,
20:04 meaning that people are really
20:06 interested in being exposed to new
20:08 creators, new offers, new products,
20:10 which is a huge relief for small
20:12 businesses and people that are just
20:13 starting out. Like the other day, I was
20:15 looking for a red dress and I had like a
20:17 specific vision in my mind and I just
20:18 couldn't find what I was looking for.
20:20 And it was popping up all these
20:21 different boutiques I would have never
20:23 found. I would have never heard of. I
20:24 don't care where I'm getting this red
20:26 dress from. I just want to find what I'm
20:28 looking for. And so what's awesome about
20:30 Pinterest is for people that prefer to
20:33 be a little bit more faceless in their
20:35 marketing or they want to not
20:38 necessarily be like the performer in
20:40 their business, Pinterest is amazing.
20:43 And so for you, Brock, you have such SEO
20:45 optimized titles, which I know is
20:47 strategic on your part when it comes to
20:49 YouTube. And so there are so many
20:50 different ways that you could take one
20:52 YouTube episode and take different
20:55 clips, use stock photos, plain
20:57 backgrounds, talk to different segments
20:59 of your audience. Like you could do one
21:01 like Instagram strategies for small
21:03 business owners, Instagram strategies
21:05 for course creators, Instagram
21:07 strategies for product based businesses.
21:10 So all of these different ways are easy
21:12 ways to create new graphics that promote
21:15 and point to the same thing. So, what I
21:18 rely on is just templates. And here's
21:20 the secret sauce of this. At this point,
21:22 I don't even do my own Pinterest
21:24 strategy. I outsource the one hour a
21:28 week to an amazing VA on my team because
21:30 once the templates are created, all she
21:31 does is take that piece of published
21:34 content and dissect it and break it down
21:36 and she's ready to rock. And keeping in
21:39 mind, if you think about it, one episode
21:41 of your show turning into 10 pins, the
21:44 average lifespan of one pin is 13
21:47 months. Now think about 10 pins being
21:49 published spaced out over a period of
21:52 time. Your episode that you're recording
21:54 right now can be working for you in the
21:56 next year. And I feel like that's just
22:00 such a different mentality than social
22:01 media where it's just like we're
22:03 constantly creating and kind of feeding
22:05 the beast. And so it totally transforms
22:07 the way that you create content and also
22:09 the way that you look at the promotion
22:11 of the content you create. I love it. We
22:13 are 100% going to implement everything
22:16 you are saying. And so I'm speaking
22:17 right now to the person in the future
22:21 who I bet is finding this episode on
22:23 Pinterest and then now they're watching
22:25 this episode. It's kind of like this.
22:26 It's meta. I like it. Pinterest
22:29 inception. Yeah, I love it. Um, okay.
22:31 Okay. So, you mentioned spacing them out
22:33 over a period of time and you know I
22:34 understand that if I space them out then
22:36 it's just going to extend the life the
22:39 lifespan so to speak. Um but in terms of
22:42 frequency on Instagram we say the more
22:44 you post the more you grow. On Tik Tok
22:47 the same is true. Um what is there is
22:49 there best practice and I know you know
22:51 Pinterest isn't like you said earlier
22:53 it's not a social media as much. It's
22:55 more of a search engine. So is it truly
22:57 the more the marrier with posting on
22:59 Pinterest? Is it, hey, give them at
23:01 least an hour so they can breathe.
23:02 What's the best practice in terms of
23:04 frequency? Okay, you're going to love
23:08 this. Okay, so the way that I teach it
23:10 is it literally takes 1 hour a week. You
23:13 can log in and you can log out. So
23:15 unlike the social platforms, and again,
23:16 this isn't a comparison. It's just
23:18 pointing the distinction. Unlike the
23:20 social platforms where you shouldn't
23:22 just like post and ghost, you need to
23:24 stay on and engage and be in your DMs.
23:27 This is truly a you upload it and you
23:30 can ghost because it's not necessarily
23:32 about likes and comments and that kind
23:34 of thing. So, it's a very different
23:37 mindset. So, what we recommend is even
23:40 if you just uploaded one to two fresh
23:42 pins, fresh just meaning different
23:45 variations. It can be old content being
23:48 resurfaced, but fresh graphics to
23:51 Pinterest a day, you can get really
23:52 great success. So, that's just one to
23:55 two. So that would be about creating 14
23:58 different graphics in Canva in one week
23:59 pointing to different types of work that
24:02 you've done. Now the recommendation and
24:04 what we do personally on my team because
24:07 we have such a gold mine of content. We
24:09 have thousands upon thousands of posts
24:10 and episodes and all the different
24:13 things is that we typically post around
24:17 five to 15 pins a day. Now when I say
24:19 we're posting it, we're just scheduling
24:21 these out to be dropping. And it's
24:23 pretty easy to do that when you have
24:25 templates to rely on and you can look at
24:27 a piece of content and splice and dice
24:30 it. In fact, you can go into chat GBT
24:31 and you could upload a transcript of
24:33 this episode and say, "Give me 10
24:35 different angles for this." And it would
24:36 literally spit out amazing headlines
24:39 that you could use on these graphics.
24:40 So, the one thing to keep in mind is
24:43 that if you have a piece of content and
24:45 let's say Brock, you create 10 pins for
24:48 it. My recommendation would be is if you
24:50 have enough content to do this, which
24:52 you do, would be to space out those pins
24:55 at least by one week, just so you're not
24:57 spamming Pinterest with all of these
24:59 pins that are super similar pointing to
25:01 that one piece of content. If you can't
25:03 do that, you're not going to be
25:05 penalized. You likely just might not get
25:08 as great of results. And so if
25:09 somebody's listening, my recommendation
25:12 would be pick three pieces of content
25:13 that you've already created that maybe
25:16 performed well in the past and create,
25:18 let's say, three different pins for
25:20 that. That'd be nine pins. That would be
25:23 enough to get the one to two pins per
25:25 day for the next week. And you could
25:27 schedule it, set it, and forget it, and
25:30 then log in again on Monday. So that's
25:32 kind of how we approach it. Um, there's
25:35 really not a ton of rules. Like what's
25:37 interesting to me is it doesn't ever
25:39 feel like you're like gaming the system.
25:42 Um I've been teaching Pinterest for
25:44 seven years now, like teaching the
25:46 strategy. And what's incredible is is
25:48 like I just re-recorded my entire
25:51 program and not a lot had changed. Like
25:53 it wasn't like this massive shift from
25:55 like, oh my gosh, last year to this year
25:56 there's this algorithm drop and
25:58 everything is not working. And so that
26:00 gives me a lot of peace in the process.
26:03 They also recently announced a verified
26:05 Pinterest educators program which I'm a
26:07 part of. And I also just think that that
26:10 is awesome in the sense of it's not like
26:11 you're gaming a system. I think
26:13 sometimes we can get strategies and it
26:14 kind of feels like well this could work
26:15 for now but it might not work in a
26:18 month. Uh they're backing what we teach.
26:20 And so I just want you your listeners to
26:22 listen with a lens of like this isn't
26:24 about gaming it. This is exactly how
26:26 they want you to be using it. Gotcha.
26:27 That makes sense. And that's so cool.
26:30 Congratulations on that. I I love uh you
26:32 know and it totally makes sense that you
26:35 are one of those verified educators
26:36 because you're someone who teaches
26:38 strategies that are proven to work and
26:40 will work over the long haul and it's
26:43 not like a flash in the pan hack that's
26:44 going to work for the next 12 hours and
26:46 then hey if you don't see this episode
26:48 the day it was posted it's gone forever.
26:50 But speaking of those strategies, I
26:52 would love to first of all just
26:54 understand um and this might be a very
26:55 silly beginner question, but on
26:58 Instagram we have stories, we have
27:00 carousels like the slideshows, we have
27:03 photos, and we have reals um and we have
27:06 live. Um what are the different kinds of
27:07 content that we can post or the
27:10 different kinds of posts we can pin on
27:14 Pinterest? Yeah. So the main one that is
27:17 like 98% of what we do is just a
27:20 singular graphic. It is just one single
27:22 standalone graphic. Now they have
27:24 recently released like carousels where
27:26 you can have multiple pins. It's limited
27:28 to five. So it's kind of like a series
27:31 of five where people can scroll through
27:33 and then they also do video pins, but
27:36 they're often no audio. It's just like a
27:38 video clip. So, a lot of times my team
27:40 will take my reels that I post that are
27:42 more like B-roll, which we all know
27:44 aren't working as great these days. Um,
27:47 but they can take that content and also
27:49 post it onto Pinterest. There is also
27:51 one thing that I think is interesting to
27:54 call out is that there's Pinterest ads.
27:57 And for most of my career on Pinterest,
27:59 we've gone straight organic. Like no
28:01 paid strategy, gotten results with no
28:03 paid strategy. But one thing that's been
28:05 interesting is as we've been using
28:08 Pinterest ads more, we've been seeing
28:10 that our cost per lead for our last
28:13 launch was nearly half of the cost per
28:15 lead that we were getting on Meta, which
28:18 is really interesting because we're not
28:20 anti-ta. Like I use Instagram and
28:22 Facebook all the time and that's how we
28:24 get a ton of leads. But it was wild
28:25 because we were able to track the
28:27 performance of Pinterest users all the
28:30 way through the funnel and those leads
28:32 performed the same as our meta leads but
28:34 the cost was 1/ half. Why this is
28:36 important is I think a lot of people do
28:38 feel slightly stuck with like all the
28:40 eggs in one basket, right? And if
28:42 something changes or something's not
28:43 working, it's not like you can just
28:45 throw spaghetti at the wall without a
28:48 cost. And so Pinterest ads are also a
28:50 really awesome place. And what we also
28:51 realized through Pinterest ads is that
28:53 we were being exposed to people that
28:55 wouldn't have naturally been in our
28:58 world or in our ecosystem. So with
29:00 Pinterest ads, you can also leverage the
29:03 single graphics or the videos. And a lot
29:04 of times we'll just take what's already
29:07 working, resize it for Pinterest, which
29:09 now Instagram is is actually the
29:11 formatting matches a lot easier um with
29:15 the more uh portrait style fitting. Um
29:16 and so it's really not a lot of extra
29:18 work on our part. They've done different
29:20 things in the past where like you can
29:22 literally click and get taken directly
29:24 to the shop. So, it's a really direct
29:26 path for product based businesses where
29:28 it literally takes somebody to check
29:30 out. And if they have like Shop Pay or
29:32 Shopify, it's like, "Oh my god, I could
29:33 literally buy something in about 5
29:36 seconds." Um, and so they're always kind
29:38 of trying different things, but the main
29:40 one that we do is just a single graphic.
29:42 And it's so easy to create a single
29:43 graphic for basically anything you've
29:45 already made. Totally makes sense. Let's
29:46 talk more about some of the best
29:50 practices for those single graphics. I'm
29:52 just curious um you know, have you found
29:53 that portrait works better than
29:55 landscape? Is there a certain amount of
29:58 words or a certain like um you know,
30:00 should we have a human's face on it plus
30:02 a headline plus a subheader? Like what
30:05 is the best practice? And I'm sure it
30:06 varies person to person, business to
30:08 business, but are there any general uh
30:10 things to keep in mind with those
30:13 graphics? Yes. So, we only do vertical
30:15 oriented pins because just like on
30:17 Instagram, it takes a more landscape
30:19 visually. So, again, a lot of
30:21 similarities there. Now, one of my
30:25 favorite things about Pinterest is you
30:29 can split test any idea, any headline,
30:31 any graphic, any color, any font. You
30:34 can split test anything with no risk or
30:36 without feeling like you're standing on
30:38 stage naked in front of your audience.
30:40 And so it removes the vulnerability that
30:44 a lot of people feel in desiring to test
30:46 or experiment with something because
30:48 it's like on Instagram, you know, trial
30:50 reels, I guess, kind of did that for us
30:52 a little bit like takes away the the
30:53 barrier of embarrassment or
30:55 vulnerability. But what's incredible
30:57 about Pinterest is like you get the
30:59 analytics. So we've done it to like
31:01 split test ad graphics or different
31:03 things like that. The point of this is
31:05 is that there's no risk of having a bad
31:08 graphic. So, you're not penalized or
31:10 it's not going to negatively impact you.
31:13 It'll just give you data. But the main
31:15 things that we found are a really clear
31:17 headline just like you would do a hook
31:21 on Instagram. Um, howto articles do so
31:22 well on Pinterest. When you think of a
31:24 search engine, a lot of times you're
31:26 typing in like how do how do I start a
31:28 podcast or how do I leverage Instagram
31:30 stories? So, how to do really really
31:32 well. A lot of our graphics will have
31:34 some sort of call to action. Again, very
31:36 similar to Instagram, but just a little
31:37 button that says click me. The button
31:40 itself is not clickable, but the graphic
31:43 is. And then we often will see that our
31:45 greater results comes from graphics that
31:47 don't have my face on me because
31:49 remember, it's unbranded searches.
31:51 People aren't necessarily looking for
31:53 me. They're looking for an answer. And
31:55 so, the majority of our pins are not
31:57 highlighting Jenna Kutcher. They're
32:00 highlighting the content. and it helps
32:02 you to connect that content to the
32:03 person and then they can get to know you
32:05 in the content piece itself. And so
32:07 again, for people that want to take a
32:09 little step back or not necessarily be
32:11 the face, it's amazing. But I just love
32:13 it because it's like Brock, let's say
32:15 tomorrow you're like, I want my brand to
32:17 be like orange and lime green. You could
32:20 test that out and split test it using
32:22 similar graphics with different branding
32:24 and just see what performs better. And
32:26 so it's kind of a good testing ground
32:29 for people, too. Gotcha. I totally see
32:31 how this makes so much sense. I see how
32:33 I could do this in less than an hour a
32:35 week. I see how I could have someone on
32:37 our team do this. I also am imagining
32:38 I'm probably not technical enough to
32:40 figure it out, but there are probably
32:41 people listening who are technical
32:43 enough to figure out how to do a lot of
32:45 this automatically with AI, which is
32:47 super cool. But I also know that there's
32:49 even more strategy. There's those
32:51 templates that you talked about, and I
32:52 know you have an upcoming webinar. So,
32:53 can you tell us a little bit more about
32:56 that? Yes. Okay. So, I just want to tell
32:58 everyone here's what I want you to know.
33:00 To learn the system, it doesn't take a
33:03 long time. Like, it is not this process
33:05 where it's like 800 steps and you've got
33:07 to figure it out. It's very simple and
33:09 that's why I love it. So, my upcoming
33:11 master class is called create once
33:14 traffic for months. How to lengthen the
33:16 lifespan of your content and make your
33:19 work work for you. And I love teaching
33:22 this because at the heart of my mission
33:24 is to allow people to have life first
33:26 businesses. Brock, you are someone who I
33:28 admire, who I know you have hobbies, and
33:30 I want my work to be the least
33:32 interesting part of my life. Like I want
33:35 to live just such a full life. And so as
33:36 summer is coming and people's time is
33:38 about to evaporate and they want to be
33:40 spending their time in other places, let
33:43 me show you the 1 hour a week strategy
33:45 that can make your work work for you and
33:47 that can help you spend your precious
33:49 time in a way that gives you a true
33:52 result. So if you sign up, you can go to
33:55 teachmetopin.com. That's teach me
33:57 topin.com. Save your seat. I would love
33:59 to just walk you through this process
34:02 and help your work live on and create
34:04 the results that you want it to create.
34:06 Amazing. Well, we will link that up in
34:08 the show notes below. But, uh, thank you
34:10 so much for being here. Two final quick
34:12 questions. One is last words of advice,
34:14 any parting messages, anything that you
34:16 want to share with our audience before
34:18 we part ways. So, I would say define
34:21 what your version of success is. And for
34:24 me, I used to focus on what success
34:26 looked like. And now I focus on what
34:28 success feels like. And for me, it's
34:30 being able to step off of the content
34:32 creation hamster wheel and have work
34:33 that is working for me in the
34:35 background. Like nothing is sexier going
34:38 to bed at night knowing that my work is
34:40 driving results for me. And so, how do
34:42 you want your life to feel? And the
34:44 second thing is is that treat time is
34:46 your currency. So look at where your
34:48 time is going and make sure that every
34:51 hour of your time has an ROI that feels
34:54 worth it to you. And for me, I love
34:56 Instagram. I show up on there every day,
34:58 but my real ROI is coming from the
35:00 traffic that Pinterest is driving,
35:02 leveraging all the things I've been
35:04 creating. Amazing. And we will link up,
35:06 like I said, the master class in the
35:08 show notes. But where's the best place
35:10 to get connected with you just if we
35:12 want to follow more all things Jenna and
35:14 check out more of what you're up to?
35:16 Yes. Well, I'll tell you Pinterest, uh,
35:19 which you can find me, Jenna Kutcher,
35:21 um, and Instagram is Jenna Kutcher. And
35:22 I would love for you to also listen to
35:24 the Gold Digger podcast. I got to tell
35:26 them our quick funny story, Brock, about
35:28 what happened. So Brock is going to be
35:31 on my podcast. It's such a killer
35:33 episode. I have been in the podcast game
35:34 for a long time. Hundreds of episodes,
35:37 over 100 million downloads. Poor Brock
35:40 comes on my podcast and I hit the wrong
35:43 record button. People, if you have ever
35:44 been mortified, if you wonder if the
35:46 great still mess up, the answer is
35:49 absolutely positively. And I'm so
35:51 grateful that I messed up with someone
35:54 as amazing as Brock. So, come and listen
35:56 to his episode on my show because it's
35:58 the second crack at it. And the second
36:00 time was even better than the first. Um,
36:02 but I'd love to have you listen in at
36:03 the Gold Digger Podcast where you can
36:06 hear amazing people just like Brock.
36:07 Definitely amazing podcast and I'll link
36:09 that up in the show notes as soon as
36:10 that specific episode comes out. But
36:13 that was a blast. And even today, uh,
36:14 you and I and I I think it's important
36:16 for people to hear not just about the,
36:18 uh, forgetting to hit record or that
36:20 technical issue, but also even today,
36:22 uh, with this conversation. We've been
36:23 talking about having this conversation
36:26 around Pinterest for a while. And we
36:28 literally planned this via text about 10
36:29 minutes before we got started. I was
36:31 like, "Hey, do you want to do it now?" I
36:32 was about to go for a hike, but we
36:33 changed our mind. She's like, "Yeah,
36:35 let's do it now." And then I sent her
36:37 the link, and here we are. So, anyways,
36:39 Jenna, you are amazing. such a light and
36:40 thank you for being here today. Thank
36:42 you for having me. Before you go, I do
36:44 have one final question and it is, would
36:46 you like me to do more interviews here
36:48 on Build Your Tribe? Of course, now that
36:50 Shellene isn't the co-host anymore and
36:52 it's just me, that kind of opens us up
36:55 for some more experts to come on. And I
36:57 am definitely open to interviewing more
36:59 experts like Jenna or like Adam Moseri,
37:01 the head of Instagram that we've already
37:03 had on the show. So, let me know down in
37:04 the comments if you're watching on
37:06 YouTube. Would you like to hear from
37:08 more guest experts and interviews? Or if
37:09 not, is there a topic that you would
37:11 like me to address and talk about in a
37:13 future episode of Build Your Tribe?
37:14 Thank you so much for being here this week.
