0:02 so our third conversation of the day
0:04 we've been very um
0:06 very powerpoint like this week is with um
0:08 um
0:12 chris park from um lancaster hia
0:15 hey chris hi paul how are you yeah good thanks
0:16 thanks
0:19 thanks for joining us this afternoon um
0:21 and we had a conversation earlier in the
0:22 week so
0:25 um i suppose leads on quite nicely as
0:27 well from what andrew was saying i think
0:30 um kind of your perspective on how you
0:32 like treat contractors and kind of how
0:33 you manage them
0:35 um and just by just maintaining that
0:37 that kind of good relationship with them so
0:38 so
0:40 what are your kind of top tips in terms
0:41 of having a good relationship with the
0:43 contractors you work with
0:45 uh well it was um it was very
0:46 interesting to hear all the points andrew
0:47 andrew
0:50 put and it's it's quite sort of alien
0:52 from our district and i think
0:54 the size of your district and how you
0:56 operate and what sort of organization
0:57 you are also has bearing
1:00 on the the type of contractors you use
1:02 and the management of those contractors we're
1:03 we're
1:06 we're a small two-tier authority
1:09 yeah we're an in-house hia within
1:11 lancaster city council so
1:12 it's quite a big rural area in the
1:14 northwest of lancashire
1:17 um and our main connotation is lancaster
1:19 and moore come and it only
1:21 only totals about 90 000 people with
1:23 about 140 000 in the whole district
1:28 so um big contractors with with lots of
1:29 gangs it fitters uh
1:32 a few and far between between so they
1:33 they tend to come out of the area if
1:35 they're trying to get work from us so
1:38 historically we've we've naturally gone towards
1:39 towards
1:42 small local contractors
1:45 and it that has worked very well for us
1:48 um it's um
1:50 it's good good relationships have been
1:52 absolutely essential on
1:55 on that fact i learned that that point
1:57 when i was cutting my teeth before i
1:59 worked for for the hia
2:02 i i worked for a a company called mace
2:03 they were a project management and
2:05 construction company and i caught my
2:07 teeth sort of managing contractors on
2:09 some airport work
2:12 one being at manchester airport and i
2:13 quickly found there
2:15 um dealing with one contractor that quoting
2:17 quoting
2:19 quoting lines of contract or threats
2:22 just doesn't work you know and i never
2:23 used that again
2:26 and from then on i i sort of prided
2:27 myself in trying to get to know the contractors
2:28 contractors
2:31 um on a good a good level and from there
2:34 you can you can start to exert influence
2:38 um and it's really important to
2:40 understand the contractors needs as well
2:43 in the in the adaptations market our
2:46 our contractors the smaller ones they
2:48 they come to us for the work they stay
2:49 with us
2:53 because of security they find the work
2:57 rewarding um we pay them promptly
3:01 so if they get their invoices to us
3:04 by thursday morning we can have the
3:05 money in their bank account on the
3:06 following tuesday
3:09 uh and it keeps those smaller guys liquid
3:10 liquid
3:12 and coming back for work all the time
3:13 you know
3:15 um and the bathroom adaptation work a
3:17 lot of them find it easy
3:19 and they don't want to be part of a complex
3:20 complex
3:22 big project of contracts you know they
3:25 they like to go into one bathroom and
3:28 fit it out and move on to the next one
3:29 so how do you manage your list of
3:32 contractors chris do you have um what
3:33 kind of approach you have and how do you
3:35 credit them um
3:37 when i first started with lancaster hia
3:39 we um
3:40 we we didn't have much technical
3:42 involvement i was mainly
3:45 just a grants officer and occupational
3:46 therapist would send us
3:49 a referral with a drawing and specification
3:50 specification
3:52 from actually from a manufacturer whose
3:54 contour showers at the time
3:57 and we just literally passed that on
3:59 sent it out
4:01 with the schedule to a couple of
4:03 contractors that
4:06 were chosen by the client and that
4:08 that process we gave them the
4:09 contractors a couple of weeks to get the
4:11 price back
4:14 we generally knew which contractor was
4:15 going to win the job
4:17 before before we even sent the work out
4:19 because we'd use them before we knew
4:20 their prices
4:24 um so the
4:25 we've been dealing with small
4:27 contractors at that point and then as
4:28 our budget
4:31 increased we started looking for more
4:35 we tended to find them um through either
4:36 client choice
4:37 the client had heard good
4:39 recommendations and they wanted someone
4:40 to quote
4:42 so we checked them out for them um
4:44 through recommendation from someone else
4:47 um and from contractors inquiring about
4:48 how they
4:50 how they do some work for us so we would
4:51 go out and vet their
4:54 uh their work first before we pass them
4:58 the bathroom adaptation to complete
5:00 so from that point we we started getting
5:04 a small band of small local contractors
5:08 and we we got them to sign up to the
5:11 lancashire safe trader scheme which is
5:12 our local
5:16 um scheme operated by trading standards
5:18 that gives the contractors a bit of credibility
5:20 credibility
5:24 it gives the our clients peace of mind
5:26 they they recognize who trading
5:27 standards are
5:31 um so it's quite cheap for the small
5:32 contractors to
5:34 to get on board with and it takes a bit
5:36 of the leg work away from us from
5:39 checking insurances and whatnot
5:42 um with the backup of if there was any adverse
5:42 adverse
5:45 adversarial situations that that they
5:47 could get involved but
5:49 we've we've been doing it for years and
5:52 we've never had that situation yet
5:54 so that you you see you've got the kind
5:55 of backup of a trader registers as well as
5:56 as
5:58 i suppose kind of actively seeking out
6:00 new contractors to um
6:02 to join your list which sounds like it's
6:04 working very well
6:07 and um andrew was kind of talking about
6:10 um kind of pricing of of jobs and and
6:12 his his kind of thoughts about that so
6:13 how do you go about getting your
6:16 quotes for um kind of level access shows
6:18 and those type of jobs
6:21 um well i mentioned before we used to we
6:22 used to go out to tender to
6:24 um and get two prices in that was that's
6:26 always been part of the policy
6:29 um that our council has had um so we've
6:30 had to stick to that
6:33 um we found we we wanted to look into
6:35 new ways of
6:37 of trimming adaptation procurement time down
6:38 down
6:41 um and one of them was to try and get
6:43 shorten that process considerably and
6:48 we we started using your tenders online
6:51 system we we got our existing band of
6:52 contractors signed up to it
6:57 and um that involves
6:59 them we produced a specification for
7:00 them to price
7:03 each item by and
7:06 every time we go and measure a bathroom
7:08 up we come back and we draw
7:09 we draw that bathroom design up in
7:10 conjunction with the occupational
7:12 therapist and the client
7:15 and then we sit down and we go through the
7:16 the
7:18 tenders online system and select all the
7:20 specific elements of the bathroom
7:22 adaptation and then that spits out
7:24 a total price in a league table from
7:31 it's awarded on price but it's also
7:32 awarded on availability
7:35 so um the cheapest doesn't always get
7:35 the job
7:37 they'll they'll get the job within a
7:39 certain time frame so if they're
7:41 available within four weeks they'll get
7:43 the work but once they're booked up for
7:44 four weeks the next
7:45 person gets the job and then so on and
7:48 so forth and we've got
7:51 quite a high demand for for adaptations so
7:51 so
7:53 these contractors are generally booked
7:55 up yeah you know a good
7:58 four to six weeks in advance so how do
7:59 the contractors find that
8:01 now they've kind of been using it for a
8:02 couple of years
8:04 yeah they're a bit reticent at first um being
8:05 being
8:07 you know small family businesses or
8:09 one-man bands that change
8:12 and filling in online specifications
8:14 wasn't overly appealing to them but
8:17 once we walked them through it and and
8:19 uh got them on board they like it now
8:22 the it runs quite smoothly they
8:25 they trust our our assessment of a of a bathroom
8:26 bathroom
8:28 and our designs um sometimes we get
8:29 stuff wrong
8:31 um they'll point that out to us on the
8:34 pre-start meeting with the client
8:35 and we're happy to take it on the chin
8:37 we know we're not perfect
8:41 um unforeseen works because they've
8:42 been working for us for so long and
8:44 we've got such a good relationship that
8:48 we trust them implicitly um they tend to
8:50 take photos themselves if we've got to
8:52 go out and look at something that's
8:54 that's you know a bit unusual then we
8:56 will do but
8:58 you know some photographs from them and
9:00 an explanation of what needs doing
9:02 uh you know we tend to be happy with
9:03 that great
9:04 and you mentioned pre-start meetings
9:06 there which was something that andrew
9:08 mentioned and was mentioned in the chat
9:11 earlier so how do they work in lancaster
9:12 the pre-start meetings
9:14 um when we award the work to the
9:16 contractor that's the trigger for them
9:18 to arrange a pre-start meeting with the client
9:18 client
9:21 we don't accompany them they they're
9:23 armed with quite a bit of information
9:24 they've got the
9:26 the specification that they've signed up
9:27 to and
9:29 priced they've got a quite a detailed drawing
9:30 drawing
9:33 they've got um the section of the
9:35 occupational therapist recommendations
9:36 that doesn't
9:39 include any of the sensitive information
9:40 so they've got
9:41 and because they've been doing this type
9:44 of work for so long they
9:46 they're almost quite aware of that
9:47 they're not just looking
9:51 out for bathroom bathroom building
9:54 trade type things they're also looking
9:55 at the client
9:56 in mind as well you know whether they've got
9:58 got
10:00 a weakness on the left-hand side or
10:01 something so they'll quite often pull us
10:03 up on a position of a grab rail which is great
10:04 great
10:06 you know um if we you know put something
10:07 in that's uh
10:10 that could be problematic so they go and
10:12 see the client
10:14 um they take their swatches of wool
10:16 boards and floor coloring
10:19 stay they talk to the client about any
10:22 any issues that might crop up during the week
10:22 week
10:25 uh like andrew mentioned you know there
10:26 could be
10:28 uh carers coming in there could be
10:30 hospital appointments
10:33 you know key safe uh operation all that
10:35 sort of stuff so that's when
10:38 when that's all all arranged
10:40 yep yep so and that's working well so
10:42 you don't have too many problems while
10:43 jobs are on
10:44 in progress that they'll kind of run
10:46 pretty smoothly very rarely
10:49 no we we we have um
10:51 we're we're in a situation in our
10:54 district where um
10:56 we need contractors almost as much as
10:57 they need us
11:00 good ones that is so there's a couple of
11:01 contractors that take a bit more managing
11:03 managing
11:06 we're always looking out for more um we
11:08 tend not to have a great deal of issues
11:11 so you know the the two the small issues
11:12 that we manage
11:15 uh are generally easily manageable but um
11:16 um
11:17 you know the contractors that we've got
11:18 they're only as good as the last job really
11:19 really
11:21 yeah they understand that if they want
11:22 more work from us they've got to come
11:24 back and put something right and they do
11:27 so in terms of snagging and sign after
11:28 you get many problems do you have do you
11:30 have long snagging lists or
11:31 are they usually done kind of right
11:34 first time pretty much right first time
11:37 um and if like i said there's a couple
11:39 of contractors that
11:41 might be might need a bit of coaxing
11:42 along at the end of it but it's
11:44 generally nothing major
11:46 great great is there any kind of tips
11:47 that you would
11:49 suggest to any of the local authorities
11:50 that you've you've
11:51 you've kind of found over the last few
11:53 years that um
11:56 pain probably helps which you gave a top
11:57 tip for before
11:59 um we have the facility to do that in
12:01 our account so there's an urgent
12:04 urgent payee method via our finance that
12:06 allows that
12:09 we've just to give a contrast to what
12:10 andrew was talking about
12:12 we've we've gone down the small and
12:14 local contractor
12:16 routes for the reasons before due to our
12:18 size and district but
12:21 also with the bathroom adaptation
12:24 and market and the clients that
12:27 we generally deal with we find that
12:30 they prefer a one-man band or a family
12:32 contractor that it gives
12:35 gives the client a uh familiarity to see
12:37 the same face
12:39 quite a few of our contractors do all
12:40 the trades
12:42 themselves including the the ultra
12:44 flooring installation
12:46 um and then get an electrician into to
12:47 do those bits
12:49 and so the clients like that they like
12:51 they like to see the same face every morning
12:52 morning
12:55 um and that contract is also
12:58 we tend to find i'm sure andrew's lads have
12:59 have
13:01 all got pride in the work but we know that
13:02 that
13:04 the small guys that we deal with have a
13:05 lot of pride
13:07 in their work because they know they can
13:09 influence every trade that follows on
13:09 from them
13:11 apart from the literature electrician
13:12 but they tend to have a good
13:15 relationship with them anyway so
13:17 um and so those smaller contracts as
13:18 well they
13:20 they fit in with our council corporate
13:21 objectives as well
13:23 keeping things local and boosting the
13:24 local economy yeah
13:27 yeah did do you have any um i suppose
13:28 just in terms of kind of large
13:30 adaptations and kind of extensions did
13:31 you have to use a different pool of
13:34 contractors or do some new contractors
13:36 we've got a couple of contractors that
13:38 cover both um
13:42 the we've always inherently struggled with
13:43 with
13:45 uh time scales on larger adaptations
13:47 just because of
13:50 any any good contractor worth his salt
13:51 that's doing extensions he's generally
13:53 booked up in our district
13:56 well in advance um so you know sometimes
13:58 we have to wait a while
14:01 um but sometimes you know we we can get
14:02 them in but
14:04 yeah there's a couple that do that um
14:07 those contractors that do do that they
14:08 they dip in and out of the bathroom
14:10 adaptation side of things in conjunction
14:12 with the
14:14 the extensions but some of its private
14:16 work that they do as well so we
14:19 tend to battle with that yeah yeah
14:21 great chris thank you for thank you for
14:22 taking us uh
14:24 take us through how things work in
14:26 lancaster and um
14:27 um yeah thanks for joining us this
14:29 afternoon i think there's a few comments
14:30 in the chat and
14:33 um yes could see that um jobs are done
14:35 quite quickly and without any problems i
14:37 think uh
14:40 um yeah that's quite from roy's report
14:41 that's where most of the issues are so
14:43 it's good to see that's not happening in
14:45 lancaster cheers thank you great thanks chris
