0:07 hello everyone and welcome to today's
0:12 panel defi 2.0 Wall Street meets
0:14 blockchain today you will hear from the
0:17 largest players in defi discuss their
0:21 roles in reimagining finance as well as
0:24 the challenges and the opportunities to
0:26 make this Vision a
0:29 reality you will also be thrilled to
0:31 know that this panel is the last
0:33 obstacle between you and
0:36 lunch so let's Jump Right In we have
0:38 assembled an impressive lineup of
0:39 Industry leaders who will be sharing
0:42 their valuable insights with us today
0:44 David would you like to do a quick
0:46 introduction hi I'm David Schwarz I'm
0:48 the CTO at Ripple and one of the
0:51 co-creators of The xrp
0:53 Ledger hi everyone I'm Sergey co-founder
0:56 of chain link uh the leading data Oracle
0:58 in the blockchain space and we also
0:59 create bridging Solutions identity
1:02 Solutions compliant solutions to create
1:05 uh more complex blockchain transactions
1:07 I'm Mary Katherine later I'm Chief
1:09 Operating Officer of uniswap labs which
1:11 builds the most used defi applications
1:12 and products and is the leading
1:14 developer of the uniswap protocol most
1:15 used defi
1:18 protocol I'm Constantine Richa the CEO
1:20 and founder of block demon we're the
1:21 largest infrastructure provider for
1:23 institutions in crypto we run around
1:26 250,000 nodes Empower transaction
1:28 staking and wallet development for
1:30 institutions great thank thank you so
1:32 much for being here Constantine let's
1:34 start with you block Damon is a leader
1:36 in onchain infrastructure for
1:39 transaction staking and wallets given
1:41 your expertise how do you see trafi
1:42 playing a role in enhancing this
1:45 critical infrastructure yeah thank you
1:47 it's a good question I think one thing
1:49 we've learned um we've been aligned with
1:51 financial institutions really since the
1:53 beginning um one thing that's unique
1:55 about us we have JP Morgan Goldman Sachs
1:57 and City Bank with major shareholder
2:00 denomination on our cap table um and and
2:02 we've done that um really for the same
2:04 reason you know that you asked the
2:05 question which is really we wanted to
2:07 learn about compliance and the
2:10 requirements they've had um in a company
2:12 um of our nature that engages in crypto
2:15 um so we ultimately don't make mistakes
2:17 that would disqualify us to be a vendor
2:19 to them in the future and so I think one
2:21 thing we can learn from trefi is that
2:23 it's very hard to reverse engineer
2:25 compliance and so understanding
2:28 compliance understanding risk tolerance
2:30 is something that we can the crypto
2:32 industry learn from the trefi
2:33 institutions I think it's really
2:35 important to understand that uh
2:36 sometimes in the crypto side we're a
2:38 little bit like hey our Tech is 10x
2:40 better than what you have we can be a
2:43 little arrogant about that um but
2:44 there's another component than
2:46 technology uh to the infrastructure
2:48 stack and that's security and compliance
2:50 and I think here trafi has a lot to add
2:52 um and uh that's going to be really
2:54 exciting the other is really you know a
2:56 real world asset tokenization where
2:58 where obviously institutions are really
2:59 primed to come in and bring a lot of
3:01 liquidity to the stack that we like
3:03 right like these assets need wallets U
3:05 there's monetization mechanisms around
3:08 it that will really help crypto um to
3:10 find a larger audience so um I think
3:13 that's a those are the main primers for
3:15 it yeah I think that all makes sense
3:17 David you have seen the whole evolution
3:20 of blockchain from early Bitcoin days
3:22 and have been a co-creator of The xrp
3:24 Ledger in your view what do you see as
3:26 the most significant difference between
3:29 dii 1.0 and D 2.0 and what do you think
3:32 is needed for mainstream adoption yeah
3:35 so thanks uh both myself and ripple have
3:37 been in this business for well more than
3:39 10 years now um you know we watch the
3:41 very early stuff going you know to
3:43 what's happening now with institutional
3:45 adoption in the very beginning it was
3:49 very experimental and it was um it was
3:50 almost like Las Vegas it was gam it was
3:52 gambling it was very sexy though like
3:54 you attract a lot of people to fanty
3:56 casinos um but it doesn't have a whole
3:58 lot of real world utility um you know
4:00 it's not Financial system 2.0 Financial
4:03 system 2.0 a lot of it is is frankly
4:05 boring like for most people what they
4:06 need is like a savings account is an
4:08 extremely useful thing it doesn't
4:09 Produce High Yield it isn't very
4:12 volatile but it's extremely useful and
4:14 practical and so we've watched that
4:16 Evolution to more useful more practical
4:19 more Enterprise focused more compliant
4:20 you know compliance was a bad word in
4:22 the early days like everything was just
4:24 completely decentralized but the problem
4:26 is the value is in the real world if
4:27 we're going to build Wall Street 2.0 we
4:29 can't just say forget about everything
4:31 that we have it's trillions of dollars
4:33 worth of real world value so what you're
4:34 seeing today is you're seeing stable
4:36 coins which are you know they're
4:38 igniting defi ecosystems they're very
4:40 institutional products but they're also
4:42 anybody can hold them and transact them
4:44 they're compliant but they're also you
4:46 know free flowing you're starting to see
4:48 defi applications that look more like
4:49 trafi they're not about getting huge
4:51 amounts of yield at very high risk but
4:52 they're about things that make a lot of
4:53 sense to people like
4:57 treasuries I think the obstacle for Mass
4:59 adoption and we're we're within a few
5:01 years of that cusp is um we need the
5:02 institutional adoption first the same
5:04 thing happened with the internet um you
5:06 have to con you have to build Bridges to
5:07 where the value is to where the people
5:10 are there has to be usability all of we
5:12 you know we have to solve all of those
5:13 problems to be able to turn that corner
5:15 to mass retail adoption so I think the
5:17 precursor to that is going to be Mass
5:19 Enterprise adoption and I think that's
5:20 right where we are now that's probably
5:24 why everybody's here yeah absolutely um
5:27 MC the long awaited Unis swap V4 upgrade
5:29 is now live U I'm sure many in this room
5:31 are undoubted ly very excited about that
5:33 however liquidity remains a key issue in
5:35 defi especially for larger institutional
5:38 players how can defi projects improve
5:40 liquidity while still maintaining
5:42 decentralization and is there inevitable
5:43 trade-off between the two or can you
5:46 have best of the Both Worlds uh well
5:48 first thank you Katie and Ando for
5:50 having us I'd say I I spent 15 years in
5:52 suits in Midtown at Goldman Sachs and
5:54 black rock and I'm so happy to now be at
5:56 a crypto event where we had to wear
5:58 where most people wear suits it's just a
6:01 great a sign of how far we've all come
6:02 um I there's not a trade-off I think
6:04 that's a misunderstanding that there's a
6:05 trade-off between liquidity and
6:08 decentralized protocols um for some time
6:10 the uniswap protocol uh which is
6:13 decentralized immutable uh on ethereum
6:15 has had deeper liquidity and top trading
6:17 pairs than centralized exchanges like
6:19 coinbase so that's that's not the case
6:22 but what has held back adoption of defi
6:25 for trafi a couple things um absolutely
6:27 compliance as was just mentioned but
6:29 also blockchains weren't fast enough or
6:30 cheap enough they just weren't
6:31 competitive with your Alternatives and
6:33 the systems that you need today and that
6:35 users need today and so the net effect
6:37 of that means that there aren't assets
6:38 that people want to buy to drive more
6:41 adoption and so I think what's happened
6:43 in the last three years definitely last
6:45 10 years is that blockchains are now
6:47 cheaper and faster and defi is more
6:51 customizable so with Unis swap V4 um
6:52 allows you essentially to create your
6:55 own Market structure and create your own
6:57 customized set of rules for a liquidity
6:59 pool so whereas with prior versions of
7:01 the UN protocol or other di5 protocols
7:02 you have to accept a determined Market
7:04 structure and that's the same for
7:06 everybody now you can say well we need
7:08 only these users to be able to access
7:10 this trading pair or we want to
7:11 integrate with this kind of Leverage
7:12 with these kinds of limits just the
7:13 stuff that you're used to having in
7:15 traditional markets so that
7:17 customization I think will unlock so
7:19 much more Innovation which is again open
7:21 to anybody anyone can build on top of it
7:23 there already hundreds of what we call
7:25 hooks of different smart contracts on
7:27 top of Unis swap B4 within four days
7:29 that are all allowing different kinds of
7:31 trading Market structures and different
7:32 kinds of assets and the other thing I
7:34 want to mention I think is really
7:36 exciting for bring way more liquidity
7:39 lots more liquidity on chain is uni
7:42 chain so we are launching an L2 on
7:45 ethereum uh next week that will be uh in
7:47 in a few months it'll be as fast or
7:49 faster than salana it will be cheaper
7:52 than Bas and it will be decentralized so
7:54 stakers will validate transactions which
7:57 is in contrast to some other l2s um and
7:58 that is really allowing the benefits of
8:00 decentralization allowing Network
8:02 participants to benefit and also
8:04 bringing the faster and cheaper benefits
8:06 so I'm extremely excited about 2025
8:07 because I think that some of those
8:09 advances in defi along with all the
8:11 other infrastructure that my colleagues
8:12 in the panel can share means that we're
8:14 going to see a lot more adoption and and
8:16 that some of the trade-offs that felt
8:17 like they existed will be busted through
8:20 and it'll become apparent that they they
8:22 were just a point in time yeah
8:23 absolutely the momentum is definitely
8:26 here um Sergey you work with some of the
8:28 biggest names in trafi most of them are
8:30 in the audience today how do you see the
8:31 relationship evolving between the
8:33 traditional institutions like Banks
8:36 hedge funds asset managers and those of
8:38 the defi world can collaboration happen
8:41 or is disruption
8:43 inevitable so I I think there there are
8:44 two things that are true that aren't you
8:47 know fully clear yet the first thing is
8:49 that the trafi community and the defi
8:50 Community are each other's biggest
8:52 customers and the simple reason for that
8:54 is that the trafi community has a lot of
8:57 the capital that is yet to flow into the
9:00 industry and the flow of New Capital it
9:02 was what defines the growth of our
9:04 industry right net inflow of capital is
9:06 what defines the growth of the crypto
9:08 blockchain industry where is the new
9:10 capital going to come from okay three
9:12 and a half trillion now how much more
9:14 retail speculative demand is there let's
9:16 say we go to seven or 10 okay great
9:19 we're at seven or 10 like hoay for us
9:21 where's the rest right guess where it is
9:23 it's where it's always been with the
9:24 asset managers and you know the
9:26 Sovereign wealth funds and the banks and
9:30 so on right so the TR is def's biggest
9:32 customer right that's that's like still
9:34 somehow not clear that's that's very
9:36 clear to me and I think that's what's
9:38 what's going to be happening you know to
9:40 David's Point yeah we have to make the
9:42 bridge connections we have to make
9:43 compliant transactions possible we have
9:46 to interoperate we have to make all that
9:49 happen that's that's one thing another
9:51 thing is that the defi Community is the
9:53 kind of hotbed of permissionless
9:55 innovation that's going to consistently
9:58 push the limit on the risk return
10:00 equation right right like what are the
10:02 financial markets basically about here's
10:04 a certain rate of return at a certain
10:05 level of risk where do you see the
10:07 fastest rate of innovation is it in
10:09 regulated institutions where everyone
10:11 has to get a sign up from three people
10:13 to borrow a paperclip no it's not in
10:15 these places it's in the places where
10:17 people can just ship a piece of code
10:19 globally and test you know whether
10:22 liquidity is interested in that risk
10:24 return proposition very quickly right so
10:26 you have this hot B of innovation that's
10:27 going to continually innovate and make
10:30 the highest best risk return turn um
10:32 newest stuff you have all this Capital
10:34 over here and then you have also a
10:35 growing retail Market in the public
10:38 chain space I think that's what people
10:40 are interested in in now from the asset
10:42 management industry is how do you create
10:43 in a tokenized fund that captures the
10:45 public chain space I think that's just
10:47 kind of the early stages and as that
10:49 industry grows that's that's also going
10:50 to happen so they're each other's B biggest
10:52 biggest
10:54 customers the the second thing that
10:56 that's going to happen um I'm pretty
10:58 sure about this as well is is that the
11:01 real world asset Trend will reformat the
11:03 public understanding of our industry
11:05 from being about highly speculative
11:09 things meme coins nfts cryptocurrencies
11:11 not backed by anything real into what
11:14 real world assets are I personally think
11:16 that the real world asset total value
11:19 locked will surpass the cryptocurrency
11:22 industry value right if you add up all
11:23 the money that's going to flow into
11:25 stable coins commodity coins tokenized
11:30 funds and a number of other uh tokenized
11:33 things the the universe of that value is
11:35 in my opinion larger than the universe
11:37 of speculative demand for meme coins and
11:39 nfts and cryptocurrencies now meme coins
11:41 nfts and cryptocurrencies are great I'm
11:43 a I'm a big big fan of those I really am
11:45 and it's it's like a wonderful thing but
11:47 I I think you had a point in the
11:49 internet when it was about like email or
11:51 something what's the internet the
11:52 internet's this thing that's going to
11:55 kill the US Postal Service and that's
11:56 not you know what the internet is right
11:58 the inter internet is information
12:00 technology right right which is all
12:02 information not just the US Postal
12:04 Services piece of information so I I
12:07 think we're going to be now with the new
12:08 regulatory environment relatively
12:11 quickly in a world where defi tried find
12:13 to operate and our industry goes from
12:16 highly speculative stuff to very
12:19 legitimate stuff and so the average
12:21 person goes from cryptocurrencies a scam
12:23 to cryptocurrencies is the new format
12:25 for financial products that I want to
12:28 deal with but you know that's my my view
12:30 of where we're going anybody have
12:33 anything to add to
12:36 that no I I agree I think that I think
12:37 that so many more assets and again I
12:38 think it comes down to the
12:40 infrastructure now can support different
12:42 kinds of assets and can support people
12:44 like all the people in this room and
12:46 that the needs of your customers and I
12:48 think that ultimately makes all of our
12:50 businesses a lot bigger right that the
12:51 point of this technology is that you can
12:54 reach Global user bases that you can
12:56 create different kinds of markets um and
12:57 make them that much more efficient and
12:58 transparent there are of course like
13:00 technical challenges like we have to
13:03 figure out um interoperable and uh
13:06 digitally native approaches to Identity
13:09 um we have to figure out ways that some
13:10 different kinds of risk can that are
13:13 sort of Institutions that have risk sort
13:14 of parameters are important to them can
13:16 make sure those are maintained in defi
13:17 when they don't always totally know
13:20 who's participating um but all those are solvable
13:21 solvable
13:24 problems yeah couldn't agree more um as
13:26 rwa tokenization growth accelerates what
13:29 use cases are you most excited about and
13:31 what key problems do you think Builders
13:33 should focus on that will drive real
13:35 world utility David do you want to start
13:37 with that one yeah you know I'm most
13:38 interested in the use cases where
13:40 there's High friction right now where
13:43 people are poorly served um for almost
13:45 any technology when you're when you're
13:46 trying to figure out where you can get
13:47 the traction you look for people who are
13:49 poorly served by the existing technology
13:50 because you don't have to be perfect to
13:52 get their business you just have to be
13:55 better exactly and the worse it is the
13:57 less good you have to be to be better
14:00 and I think areas like real estate um
14:03 like Venture Capital private Equity um
14:04 things like that that are just very
14:06 poorly served another thing that works
14:08 surprisingly is the opposite the
14:09 opposite end actually both ends work
14:11 better than the middle so on one end
14:13 people are very poorly served there very
14:14 high friction on the other end where
14:16 believe it or not where people are very
14:17 well served and this very low friction
14:19 you can actually get traction because if
14:21 you can save a very small amount of
14:23 money that's better so for example
14:25 tokenized treasuries you probably you've
14:27 heard a lot about tokenized treasuries
14:29 those actually work pretty well right
14:30 now you might think well why why would
14:32 that be an area and it's because of that
14:34 it's because if there's a $3 transaction
14:35 cost and you can push that down to a
14:37 fraction of a penny that's actually a
14:40 lot because the margins are so small if
14:42 I'm only making you know 2% you're
14:44 charging me a couple of basis points if
14:45 I can save you a couple of bucks that
14:48 actually does matter so I think it it's
14:50 like the two ends as far as like what
14:52 people should focus on if we're going to
14:54 turn to the corner to mass adoption user
14:56 experience is going to be absolutely
14:58 critical the biggest problem with mass
15:00 adoption option is when the users have
15:01 to understand the details of what
15:03 they're doing if you look at any
15:04 technology that's gotten Mass adoption
15:06 whether it's the internet you know
15:09 computers cars um it's when people don't
15:11 have to understand the details of the
15:13 technology that it works the best and so
15:14 it's get getting that user experience
15:16 interoperability is a big part of that
15:17 if like my money is over here but the
15:18 thing I want to do is over here and I
15:20 really have to think about that that's
15:23 too much too much work not worth the
15:25 energy effort and that's probably why
15:26 institutional adoption is going to
15:28 happen before Mass retail adoption
15:30 because insti adoption that that the
15:33 complexity is not as big of a blocker
15:34 yeah I couldn't agree more Constantine
15:35 do you have anything to add to that
15:39 about new use cases yeah I think I mean
15:40 I think if you look at what's kind of
15:44 missing still also for uh institutional
15:46 adoption I think one of the there's
15:48 really two things one is wallets I think
15:49 are really really important and I think
15:52 it's something that uh I'm always amazed
15:55 as a uh builder in the space how poor
15:57 wallet infrastructure still is um in in
15:59 the space uh on the consumer side and on
16:01 the institutional side and so I think
16:03 there's um a lot of evolution there and
16:05 obviously we're very active in the space
16:08 um and so I think um there's a lot of
16:11 opportunity in in that space um wallets
16:14 need to be secure for trfice they need
16:16 to be air gapped you know they really
16:18 the the the risk around digital wallets
16:21 has to be basically zero um and um and
16:23 it's been um you know a lot of companies
16:25 have struggled to to move towards it I
16:28 think the other thing um that we need to
16:29 understand is is that we also need
16:32 insurance products uh for these defi
16:34 rails that ultimately protect companies
16:37 from Smart contract risk from hacks and
16:39 and those type of uh issues when it
16:41 comes to defi um I think what we've
16:43 learned is that traditional financial
16:46 institutions really you know have no
16:48 risk tolerance in that area right and so
16:51 uh if there's um a shade of risk that
16:54 something illegitimate could happen or
16:56 that assets are actually completely at
16:59 risk um they're not going to engage and
17:02 the technology and so um the the game
17:05 that we like to play in in in in crypto
17:07 the you know the math the the coding and
17:10 chances and statistic oh 99.99% is
17:12 acceptable you know it's not acceptable
17:14 for a trfi right and so I think that's
17:17 something we we need to learn and
17:21 understand MC s anything to add to that
17:25 or yeah so it in the in the in in the in
17:28 the tokenization use cases I I think the
17:30 money market funds um are
17:33 are experiencing an unexpected level of
17:36 success because they diversify risk if
17:38 you if you are in a crypto land then you
17:39 look at things like Tera and why they
17:41 fail it's because they have lots of
17:44 exposure to crypto stuff right highly
17:47 speculative crypto stuff so it turns out
17:49 that diversification is like a basic
17:52 Common Sense thing that still happens
17:54 and is useful on blockchains so if you
17:56 have a bunch of crypto stuff maybe you
17:57 want some non- crypto stuff on a
17:59 blockchain what's the most non-crypto
18:01 thing you can think of us treasuries
18:04 right so you know here's a US Treasury
18:05 on chain and he gets adoption and
18:07 diversifies as your risk and gives you
18:10 and also well depending on the one you
18:12 have gives you certain amounts of yield
18:14 the the second thing I think is stuff
18:17 you couldn't own before so you couldn't
18:19 own a private Equity Fund you couldn't
18:21 own a piece of real estate you couldn't
18:23 have fractional ownership of um revenue
18:26 from an art auction you couldn't have
18:27 you know you you couldn't experience
18:30 ownership of something thing yeah um
18:31 that second thing I think is is going to
18:33 is going to start going
18:36 somewhere right about now um and that
18:37 varies by geography because different
18:39 geographies vary real estate versus
18:40 Commodities versus you know different
18:42 owning different things that they want
18:44 to own but couldn't own and there's pent
18:46 up demand for that ownership and then
18:47 the third category that I'm really
18:51 excited about is um getting me yield on
18:53 things I can't get yield on right so
18:57 let's say the the the very smart D5
18:59 people in flipflops are able to generate
19:02 yield on the thing that the people in
19:04 institutional suits couldn't right like
19:07 let's say I can get yield on gold right
19:10 that's pretty interesting isn't it so I
19:12 think the the the the defi people that
19:15 figure out how to create yield out of
19:17 non traditionally
19:20 non-yield bearing assets are going to be
19:23 super successful people like like some
19:25 of the most successful stuff will be
19:27 that for that you kind of do need this
19:29 composable ecosystem where you can start
19:32 building stuff around the asset to try
19:35 and do experiments to see like how can I
19:36 make yield happen out of this
19:38 traditionally non-yield bearing thing
19:40 but I I think someone's going to figure
19:43 that out and like when you start getting
19:45 yield on on tradition on things that
19:46 didn't give you yield like imagine you
19:48 get yield on your home equity imagine
19:50 you get yield on
19:53 gold that's interesting that's an actual
19:54 Financial Innovation that would would
19:57 really benefit people and maybe even the
20:00 markets depending how much Short Selling
20:02 good results but you know that's a whole
20:04 other question um but yeah that's what I
20:06 think you something to say MC yeah I was
20:08 just going to add I think one way that I
20:09 like to think about what s was just
20:12 describing is that today's markets if
20:13 you think of things that can be traded
20:14 they're like kinetic energy in the
20:16 context of the financial system and
20:17 there's so much potential energy that
20:20 isn't converted into kinetic energy just
20:21 because of the way that we can the way
20:23 that markets work and what can be
20:24 deposited in the market or exchanged in
20:26 the market and so if we have much more
20:28 flexible infrastructure and tokenization
20:29 allows you to then turn more of that
20:32 potential energy and value whether
20:35 they're natural resources reserves or um
20:36 bringing onchain yield in different
20:37 forms to different users around the
20:39 world who can't access it today we
20:40 should have just so much so much more
20:42 equivalent of that kinetic energy and
20:44 realize liquid value so what is that
20:47 mean I think that trafi you should be
20:48 identifying what you think the use cases
20:50 are what are your business problems what
20:53 do you need solved and then be sharing
20:55 that as like requirements and needs with
20:58 the universe of Open Source and public
21:00 Developers as well as private companies
21:02 um that have a specific Focus because
21:03 part of the benefit of the permission
21:05 list and public blockchain Innovation
21:07 that Z was talking about uh is that you
21:09 could put out a blog post and just say
21:10 hi we're a financial institution here's
21:11 some of the problems that we're trying
21:12 to solve at a level that you're
21:14 comfortable sharing publicly and people
21:16 will start to try to innovate to solve
21:18 them and that's a new approach to
21:21 Innovation I think a major step forward
21:23 for financial institutions in the past
21:24 several years is accepting public
21:26 blockchains and realizing that you can
21:28 have your own compliance requirements
21:31 and security standards met on the same
21:33 Foundation of public Innovation um it
21:35 doesn't mean that you have to opt into
21:36 the exact same standards as all the
21:38 participants on those blockchains or
21:40 protocols so I would just invite you to
21:42 say what problems you need to solve what
21:43 use cases you need and I think you'll
21:45 see a lot of people start to rush after
21:47 them um in that context I'm excited
21:48 about all the things that we talked
21:51 about money market funds payments um
21:52 onchain yield from new forms of it from
21:55 New assets that don't generate today but
21:56 I think if you look at even just the
21:57 money market funds that are being
21:59 launched today
22:00 they're being structured in different
22:01 ways they have different fund
22:03 jurisdictions they have different ways
22:04 that they treat distributions and
22:06 withdrawals and redemptions and so you
22:08 see that each of those examples it may
22:10 feel competitive it may feel crowded but
22:12 I think the the proliferation of those
22:14 will help us come to a standard faster
22:15 and so we'll end up with something that
22:17 gets you something uh we'll end up with
22:19 tokenized products that get faster
22:20 towards something that's more like
22:22 onchain realtime yield onchain realtime
22:25 pricing which is the ultimate Innovation
22:27 as opposed to just trying to serve a set
22:28 of users who today are on change and you
22:30 want them to buy your money market fund
22:31 but they're still going to only be able
22:33 to redeem in a multi- hour window right
22:35 so my point the point I'm trying to make
22:37 is like don't overthink what is your
22:39 specific use case like just kind of put
22:40 it out there and I think we're going to
22:42 see um a lot of convergence over the
22:43 next couple years on a few different
22:46 standards yeah these are all building
22:47 blocks as well right once you have that
22:49 you can build things on top of it which
22:51 makes it compostable and open so uh
22:53 leads me to my next question in defi
22:54 we're seeing decentralized alternatives
22:57 to Capital markets we have lending
22:59 borrowing and derivatives
23:00 what changes do you expect in the future
23:02 of traditional Capital markets as defi
23:05 continues to
23:07 develop anyone want to jump in
23:09 there there's so
23:11 many I mean they're going to be more
23:13 accessible they're going to be open 247
23:15 I mean well all the obvious stuff I'll
23:18 give you two two examples one is I think
23:19 that I'm really curious to see how the
23:21 notion of a funds jurisdiction changes
23:24 over time like what do a geographic
23:26 boundary for a financial product mean
23:28 when you can have you can access users
23:30 all over the world instantly um and so I
23:32 think that's it's like a mostly a
23:34 regulatory question but uh I think we'll
23:37 see we'll have to see new kinds of we'll
23:38 see new products that are more portable
23:41 globally right um that's one and then a
23:43 second is I also think we'll see changes
23:45 in innovation in derivatives and Futures
23:47 contracts we've already seen them but if
23:48 you think about just some of the
23:50 operational risk around derivatives and
23:52 how those can create treating
23:53 opportunities Arbitrage opportunities
23:56 but also some negative risks I think
23:57 that we'll see Improvement and
24:00 advancement in um in derivatives markets
24:01 that I hope is embraced in the US
24:04 because I think there well some onchain
24:05 derivatives have a tremendous amount of
24:07 risk in the form of Leverage and not
24:09 having leverage ratios they also have
24:10 reduce a lot of operational risk and traditional
24:12 traditional
24:15 derivatives yeah so not sorry I
24:18 understand your question my fault but um
24:20 basically it's going to be very
24:22 subdivided on the basis of identity so
24:25 there will be identity um unknown
24:28 markets and that's what the majority of
24:31 public defi crypto per deck who knows
24:34 who is who how many cats and dogs do you
24:36 trade for my course and who are you and
24:38 who am I and nobody knows anything right
24:41 like there's there's a certain amount of
24:43 um anonymity that's valuable to the
24:45 world in financial markets and that's
24:48 one subset of the market right that's
24:49 that's where a lot of the the market
24:53 activity is now Anonymous no identity
24:55 trading and activity and assets and
24:58 stuff and ownership and now I think
24:59 we're enter in a world where there's
25:03 identity Laden assets and ownership and
25:05 I I think the answer to your question is
25:08 what is the value and the amount of
25:11 capital in each of those groups what is
25:13 the amount of capital that your system
25:15 can access as a market if you go into
25:19 the identity Laden compliance AML kyc
25:23 based World versus the anonymous
25:26 frictionless nobody knows who anyone is
25:27 and like they could all run away
25:30 tomorrow world right right um I think
25:33 probably the ID identity Laden world is
25:36 is much larger and it's now starting to
25:39 to come in which is why you know we've
25:41 built a lot of identity solutions for
25:43 putting identity on chain and making
25:45 transactions identity Laten that's
25:48 generally what um what I think many of
25:50 the people in this room also believe is
25:52 that there's M much more of a market in
25:54 the part of the world that is regulated
25:57 and where there's AML kyc compliance
25:58 versus the part of the world but that's
26:00 still part that part of the world's
26:01 really cool you know that nobody knows
26:05 who anyone is with three cats for my dog
26:09 coin World which is great but um you
26:11 know I think that's the early stages of
26:13 our industry and the later stages are
26:15 the identity Laden traditional
26:17 institutional Capital flowing in which
26:19 is you know what we're building around
26:21 and what I feel a lot of people here in
26:23 in this room are building around
26:25 unfortunately that's time David Sergey
26:27 MC Constantine thank you so much for
26:28 joining us we really appreciate
