The content discusses the reasons for an individual's decision to leave Australia, citing high taxes, government mismanagement, and a perceived decline in quality of life, and explores strategies for wealth building and tax optimization in other jurisdictions.
Mind Map
クリックして展開
クリックしてインタラクティブなマインドマップを確認
I'm just ashamed to be Australian.
They're just trying to control the
out of Australians. They're robbing them
through inflation. They're robbing them
through taxes. We need a Donald Trump
type character. 147,000
millionaires either left or were
predicted to leave and you were one of
them. I sold all my industrial
buildings, my home, everything, my cars,
everything. Went liquid and bought my
ticket. The feeling was so good. Man, no
tax at all on a worldwide income. If
you've got assets in Australia or
anywhere else, >> [music]
>> [music]
>> it's all tax-free.
>> So, let's say I'm listening to this
podcast. Um I want to do what you've done.
done.
What are the steps?
>> Everything will start [music] to move
All right.
So, Adam, so for those who might not
know you yet or haven't seen our last
episode that we did together, how would
you describe you, your past, your
history, um
who you are and what you're doing now?
I'd describe myself as a recovering entrepreneur.
entrepreneur.
Recovering entrepreneur. Recovering
entrepreneur. 30 years of small
business, you know, starting uh side
hustles. Mhm. Um
uh I'm 51 years old uh and I've been at
it since I was 20.
So, through that 30-year journey uh I've
had all kinds of businesses. A few of
them made me some money. A lot of them
failed. Um and uh today I would describe
myself as a semi-retired investor and
podcaster who's a
freedom maximalist, um bitcoiner, uh and
uh free speech advocate. Mhm. Mhm.
Mhm.
Okay. So, the big
thing that's changed in your life or
since we last spoke. So, we we last
spoke in your brand new studio. I think
we recorded an episode before you
recorded an episode, actually.
>> Probably, yeah. Yeah, you like you just
built this massive studio out. You spent
a lot of money building it and then not
long after, now you've completely left
Australia. Yeah. You're not a tax
citizen anymore. You've left Australia.
You've packed it all up. Yeah. Um
before we start diving into the meat of
it all, what's your personal reasons as
to why you want to leave Australia? >> [snorts]
>> [snorts]
>> Wow, where do I start? Um
first of all, I love Australia. I think
it's a beautiful, beautiful place and I
think Australians uh when they are not
under stress,
um are at their best. And I well,
I I think they're among the world's best
people, I should say, when they're not
under stress. Recently, I've seen a
change in what a
what a Australian life is. And I think
it's been a combination of uh very, very
poor government, um inflation. I'm
seeing inflation has put so many average
Australians under enormous stress and pressure.
pressure.
Uh house prices have gone through the
roof, which is good for people who own
houses, but for everybody else, we've
just seen the wealth gap open up. And I
saw this when I moved to the US cuz I
lived there for 5 years. I lived right
on the edge of Beverly Hills, um
um
uh in West Hollywood. And and basically,
when I went over there, I was a full
capitalist, you know, I was like, yeah,
go and you know, just get rich. But in
in America, I saw that middle class
hollowed out and you would see homeless
people basically asleep on the front
lawns of $20 million mansions in Beverly
Hills. You know, what's the point of
being a billionaire and living in
Beverly Hills if you've got homeless
people with mental health issues on your
doorstep because the country doesn't
have any middle class or any support for
the bottom end.
And we've seen that happen in Australia.
We've seen families just get decimated
by pressure. Um we're seeing now when I
grew up, you know, my dad was a
a teacher and my mom looked after three
boys and he was able to buy a house and
put food on the table for three of us
and mom was able to provide a great home
life. And I I sort of say to people we
we reminisce about the past and
sometimes we romanticize it, but
actually it was better back then. There
was not the financial pressure that
there is today on Australian families.
Um and we're seeing mom and dad working
and having to pay for health care and it
results in children not having enough
time with their parents or their
attention is distracted into devices.
So, the quality of life has just been
diminished so greatly since I grew up in
a country.
And and I just see incredibly poor
management of the country and what it
means to be Australian. Our identity's
being diluted at an industrial scale.
They brought in over a million
immigrants in the last 2 years alone.
Nothing against immigrants per se, but
when you dump a million people into a
country, um it changes the country and
it's um it it changes it all kinds of
ways from a cultural dilution um of
Australian life. Uh it changes the
housing affordability situation. It
changes what it feels like to be in the
country. And I just don't see in the in
the near term or maybe ever uh it
turning around from this point in Australia.
Australia.
Plus, of course, all the taxes and I
think we're overtaxed, overgoverned, um
free speech is
you know, right as we're recording this,
they're talking about banning X.
>> X. UK, Canada, Australia. Yeah, the
alliance of morons. Yeah. Uh free speech
is now under threat. It's just
ridiculous. It's become a nanny state.
And uh we're recording this in Bali, of
course, and and here I feel free. I I
still feel a level of freedom. I don't
have a red light camera. I don't have
speeding cameras. I don't have cameras
hanging under the M1 bridge trying to
catch me. Um I don't get taxed 50
different ways to Sunday. Uh I just feel
so much happier out of the country. Mhm.
So, you can dive into any of that as
much as you want. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
Um the the immigration standpoint. So,
what why do you think as a government
they are bringing in so many people when
the common
issue that everyone's speaking about is
cost of living, housing crisis, all this
stuff. Like, wouldn't the first thing be
to stop how many people can come into
the country? Why do you think that's
happening? Well, you would like to think
it's just mismanagement. And I and I
used to think that and I would see these
uh sort of what we call call conspiracy
theorists and these tin hat Mhm. wearing
people saying it's a planned destruction
of the Western way of life.
And the longer I have looked at this
issue, I just recently I interviewed the
shadow um uh
uh
uh minister for housing um
uh and I had him on my podcast and I sat
directly opposite the guy that's in
opposition in charge of housing in Australia
Australia
to the labor uh side from the liberal
party, Andrew Bragg. And I said,
"You say that, you know, immigration is
an input into housing affordability in
this country, but if we stopped
immigration, it's not going to
meaningfully change."
And I'm like, "Dude, like, hang on a
second. You're talking one over a
million people in the last 2 years
coming into the country. You're telling
me that's not going to have a meaningful
impact on housing and and affordability
and availability." He's like, "Yeah, no,
it's just an input." Now, when you've
got the shadow
housing minister
saying the same thing as the the labor
side of the equation when Australians
are screaming about housing
affordability, what does that tell you?
It it it we don't have two government
parties in Australia. We have two we
have a uni-party.
Um and you've just got to look at the
incentives. Where is the where why would
they want to bring in um people at scale
in this country? And they say things
like, "Well, if we didn't bring them in,
um the country would collapse." And
everyone goes, "Oh, okay. Well, the
economy would collapse. Better keep
doing it." But actually, when you
double-click on that, like, why? Explain
to me why not bringing in a million new
people, our country would collapse.
Like, let's have that debate.
>> Well, we we haven't had that debate, you
know? And that's what I'd like to have a
look at. We survived all these years
before. In fact, we survived all these
years before.
Um so, I think there's something greater
uh at play from staying in power for
one. If you bring in all these people
through loose loose immigration policies
and they know that it's the labor
government that has made it possible for
them to come to this country and they're
handing out money and assistance and
everything else. So, of course, they're
going to vote.
>> Yeah. So, you look at the incentives
behind any of this stuff. And then you
look at the Australian government and
where they get so much of their tax
from. And I sold up tens of millions of
dollars worth of real estate to leave
the country because I could see that
where this is going is that property
owners, people like me or people who
they deem to be rich, they're just going
to go after them. And and if you've got
physical property in Australia, it's
such a rich tax source for the
Australian government, you're going to
get you're paying rates, you're paying,
you know, levies and all the other
stuff. And it's just going to get harder
and harder and harder. And yeah, I just
basically opted out. Yeah. So, it wasn't
just you, though. So, I read that either
last year or this was a projection. You
maybe have to correct me on this, but 147,000
147,000
millionaires either left or were
predicted to leave
Australia alone last year and you were
one of them. Mhm. Um
is that accurate numbers? I think so,
yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. Um so, what
what's your perspective on this? Do do
you think it's a trend? Cuz as before we
record, you're like, yeah, this it's a
hot topic right now, this. Do you think
this is a trend or do you think this is
actually the tipping point where people
are like, they've had enough. They're
like, this. And and cuz
the people with a lot of money, they
probably got there.
Most people you make money because of
the way you think, right? You think in
the future and you try to predict moves.
Do you think this is a trend or this is
actually a tipping point of
people should be probably paying
attention to these people with a lot of
money cuz they
they're making moves that people aren't
aware of yet.
It's absolutely a trend. Um and the
irony of it is that um
I have many millionaire,
multimillionaire friends that are
leaving Australia as we speak. Um
and uh
the irony of it is that many Australian
immigrants moved to the country uh post
the war. We had loads of Greeks, loads
of Italians that moved for a better
life. A lot of those people have made
their fortunes now and are leaving and
going back to Greece and back to Italy
and back to these other places because
Australia has become the place that is
no longer the land of opportunity that
it once was, which is really sad. And
it's being sold to the uneducated mainstream,
mainstream,
you know, like I am
dumbfounded that people vote labor
still, right? With with everything
that's happened in the country, the theft
theft uh
uh perpetrated
perpetrated
on the middle class through inflation
is massive. Like and people don't see
it. They just think, oh, prices are
going up. Like, no, actually your
dollar's just becoming worth less. And
the reason it's becoming worth less is
because they're printing money because
they're irresponsible. You look at all
the massive fraud in NDIS. You look at
the the the the the the over-bloating in
the Australian government system. That
inflation, another way of saying it is
it's just stealing from you and your
kids, right? Because you've now got to
work more to get more dollars to buy
more things. Um but I see it as a
massive trend and the the middle class
Australians are told, look, we're going
to, you know, tax super balances of over
$3 million, right? And because they're
not educated, they just go, oh, that
sounds good. Those people are rich. But
it never works, right? It never works.
What happens is the rich are the most
mobile and so they can just leave if
they don't like it. They're just
bringing in the billionaire tax in California.
California.
>> Yeah. They announced it within
a month. Chamath Palihapitiya, right?
Multi-billionaire, he left. Peter Thiel
left. Sergey Brin and Larry Page,
founders of Google, left, right? All
these guys left. Peter Thiel alone, his
personal tax position is worth 135,000
Californian taxpayers. They all left
within 30 days when the government said,
we're going to bring in a 5% tax on
billionaires. So they're going to assess
your net worth and just take 5%.
>> Wow. And the and and and the lefties go,
oh, that sounds great, you know, and the
poor people go, that sounds great. And
they forget the fact that actually
they're just going to leave. Like Elon
left and went to Texas and so on and so
on. So
Australia's going to see the same thing.
The UK has has had a massive flight of
multi-millionaires to Dubai mainly. I saw
saw
over 10,000 Yeah.
>> UK, which is significantly lower than
Australia. So I don't know if one of
those numbers
are off. 10,000 apparently from the UK.
>> Yeah, yeah. Australia's super rich
though. I mean, on a on a global basis,
you know, people say, oh, millionaires.
Well, most people who own a house are
millionaires. I think the average net
worth of an Australian family is nearly
a million dollars now. It's something
crazy. But a millionaire is nothing now.
It's just like a normal person left.
Yeah, so so who who are the Well,
actually, before I move on, so
just so that people can understand, I
think I know the answer to this, but so
the California are putting this tax in
for the billionaires.
Um but I thought Trump is very
pro-wealth. Is this because the
individual states can still pull
individual taxes cuz there's the
corporate tax and then this state tax?
There's state and federal taxes in the
US. And I when I moved to the US, I
learned this because I moved to Los
Angeles, California. And I started
paying my taxes and I'm saying to my
accountant, hang on a second. I just
paid tax. He goes, no, you just paid
your federal tax. I'm like, okay, what's
the next? He says, well, then you got
your state tax and because you live in
California, that's 13%. We call it the
sunshine tax. So I said, hang on. So I'm
paying 30% federal, then 13% state and
then the Obamacare on top was nearly 2%.
So I was paying 15% on top of my federal
taxes um
it is crazy, right? Like in a in
Australia you have federal taxes and
then there are some state levies, but
there's not like a separate tax return
for the state. And then and then in
California, there was what they call a
franchise board tax, which is the city of
of
Hollywood where I was. So Hollywood city
tax, California state tax, federal tax
and then the Obamacare tax.
What's up, legend? Real quick, you're
listening to this podcast clearly
because you're a big dreamer, you're a
big thinker and you want to achieve
massive freaking things on this planet.
What I know from my experience and
interviewing so many successful people,
one of the fastest ways to achieve what
it is you want is to be in the
environment with those who are like you
and learning from people in where you
want to get to. And that's why every
single year I run an event called Dream
Fest. This is our fifth year of doing
it. We've had thousands and thousands of
guests in the past. We've had wicked
speakers. Last year we had Dan Martel
and this year we're even going bigger.
And every year we bring the best
speakers from the industry to help you
level up your skill set and your mindset
so you can create your dream life. It's
two full days live on the Gold Coast
here in Australia, but this year we're
even going to have a virtual option. So
head to the link in the description of
this episode and you're going to find
all the information you need. Get
yourself a ticket and I can't wait to
see you in August at Dream Fest. So >> [clears throat]
>> [clears throat]
>> so who are the people that are leaving
and why would this conversation be
intriguing for even the average person?
Cuz it's it's easy to understand. Like
the obvious answer is the super wealthy
or anyone who's got, you know, investors
or online businesses and things like
this. Are they the only people leaving
or are there
more people trying to be strategic with
this as well?
Well, we recently ran an event in Dubai
and it was kind of funny. We we I just
said on my Instagram, look, me and a few
mates going to Dubai, we're going to go
and look at some property.
Um and we're going to
just listen to some people who've
left to that jurisdiction. We're going
to have dinner with them. But if any of
you guys want to come, let us know. And um
um
we're going to charge five grand. We're
going to have, you know, a few parties
and we're going to do all this stuff. We
had 60 people book. We had to close it
because we had two buses to fill. And it
was done in 24 hours. Like literally,
the appetite for going and hanging out
and having a look. When we got there,
there were, you know, a guy from
Melbourne who's done $350 million worth
of real estate developments in Melbourne
and he he said, I'm leaving Australia.
I'm selling up. And he said,
the reason I'm leaving is because I can
no longer make money here in development.
development. >> Interesting.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah, he said it's it's done. Like it's
totally cooked. The risk
>> $350 million worth of
of projects. Cuz everyone's still
banging on. You get on any Facebook ad,
everyone's banging on. Uh property
property property property Aussie dream and
and
Yeah, so you're saying that the great
Aussie dream of getting wealthy through
property is actually Well, through
development, it's a very tough now to
make them stack. Like my business
partner with our podcast, Eric,
he's very close friends with people who
have a large land holding in Sydney that
they've owned for years and they said
they can build a high-rise on it, right?
And they said, we've had the land that
long that it's basically free now and we
still can't make the feasibility work
with free land, right? Just because of
the building cost and and the time and
all the that you've got to go
through with Australian regulation. So
very few developers are able to make it
stack anymore because of like we had
Pauline Hanson on the podcast and
Pauline said to us that something like,
I can't don't quote me, you can go and
grok, but something like 40% of the cost
of a new house and land package in
Australia is tax.
Hm. And it's wild. Like when you break
that down, um in one form or another,
it's tax. Hm. Um and so people wonder
why there's a housing affordability
crisis and why governments are, you
know, propping up the housing market as
much as they can. It's because look at
how much money's in every new home
build. Yeah. So I just typed into
ChatGPT, give me a list of all the types
of taxes that people get in Australia
and this is what it spat out. So number
one, income tax. So income tax, Medicare
levy, Medicare levy surcharge,
business tax, company tax, capital gains
tax, fringe benefits tax, payroll tax,
consumption and everyday tax, GST, ex-
excise taxes or excess excess taxes, I
guess. Uh property, stamp duty, land
tax, council rates, cars, motor vehicle
registration charges, insurance duties,
gambling taxes, super contribution tax,
division 293 tax, super earnings tax,
customs duty, luxury car tax, passenger
movement charge.
So here's what they say. You're taxed
when you earn, taxed when you spend,
taxed when you invest, taxed when you
own, taxed when you move money and even
taxed when you die.
There's I believe over 100 taxes in
Australia. Um and I felt it, Morgan,
when I went home. You know, I went home briefly
briefly
and I got out got out of the uh
airport and, you know, hanging under the
highway was the the cameras trying to
catch you texting. Yeah. In the bushes
with a copper trying to catch you. These
fines are all taxes. And then I got a
phone call from the Australian Bureau of
Statistics saying I had to fill out this
survey online.
Uh well, sorry, fill out this survey
which they'd apparently emailed to me. I
said, I don't want to fill a survey out.
They said, you have to fill a survey
out. And I said,
>> Why? Why? Like and and and first of all,
I hung up cuz I thought it was a scam
three times until they finally said,
And then they said, well, I said, all
right, well, what's the fine if I don't
do it? And I said, they said $350. I
said, well, do you take credit card? I
don't want to do it. I'll just pay. And
they said, no, it's $350 per day that
you don't do it, right? Um This was just
because of your certain situation? No,
no, no, just just a standard Australian
Bureau of Statistics survey for business
owners because I had businesses
registered in Australia, I had to
compulsorily compulsorily,
you know, do this 68-question survey or
be fined $350.
Um I had two two of my family that were
on my company payroll just recently that
I didn't pay the PAYG as I went along uh
because I didn't think of them
employees. I just paid at the end of the
year. I just got fined three or four
thousand dollars in late late penalties
because I paid it, but I just paid it at
the end of the year instead of
throughout the year. So this is look,
Australia's just gone out of control
with taxation. It's an extremely
difficult place to get ahead now.
Um and uh only strategy for most people
is buy real estate and hope that it
keeps going up. And um
you know, there's lots of talk about the
Olympics coming to Brisbane and prices
are going to keep going up and
immigration is going to keep coming and
a housing short supply.
But um there's a big world out there.
There's lots of ways to make money
outside of that. And um I say to young
people, I say you know, in the world we
live in today,
I think most young people should explore
moving to a low-cost environment to live,
live,
set up a tax structure that minimizes
your tax legally as much as possible,
and then work hard for 10 years. So,
live lean,
work hard, pay as little tax as you can
and compound like a demon for like 10 years,
years,
and go back to Australia, and if you
want to go back there, but spend 10
years. Like come to Bali, set your
company up in Dubai, and just work for
10 years. You'll be so far ahead of your
countrymen back in Australia, it will be
wild. I a friend recently did that. He's
just turned 40. He went back to
Australia, bought an $18 million
shopping center, um
which will you know, basically keep him
retired for life in Australia, but he
accumulated all the cash, and that's not
all he owns. He's a massive crypto bag
and other stuff. He was able to build
that over 10 years living overseas in a
low-cost place, low tax, and just worked
and invested. Wow.
So, I want to sort of put this into I
want to understand the numbers better.
And I've got some numbers here that the
comparison between Australia, Dubai, and
Cyprus, cuz that's where you
um are you still set up there or are you
now Bali? I'm No, so I'm currently set
up in Cyprus
from a tax base point of view.
>> The businesses are set up
>> Yeah, driven through through Cyprus.
>> Yeah. Um and I split my time between
Cyprus and Indonesia.
And I'm also setting up in Panama, so
I'm about to buy a home in Panama in the
next four or five weeks. Um and I'll
probably be moving my tax base to Panama
for a bunch of reasons. Um but Cyprus is
really interesting because what it
originally drew me was
that first of all, where it is. It's
right on the doorstep of like I could
fly I went and watched like the world
heavyweight boxing just on the weekend
in London cuz it's a direct flight
there, five of them a day, and it's $200
and you're in London.
>> Wow. So, I could be in London or Paris
or anywhere in Europe in like 5 minutes,
right? I can also be to any events or
anything I want to in the Middle East,
you know, like Dubai's a 3-hour flight
or something away. So, from a location
point of view, it's this Mediterranean
island where you can ski in the
wintertime, swim in the summer on this
Mediterranean island. I didn't know
there was snow in the Mediterranean.
>> Yeah, so there's it's not great skiing,
but there's there's snow on the
mountains. And I'd literally go up to
the mountain, see the snow, and then
have, you know, a croissant on the on
the harbor, you know, an hour later. So,
it's really cool.
Why [clears throat] why Panama? I'll
just finish on Cyprus here cuz I think
people will find this interesting. So,
what's interesting about it from a
jurisdictional tax point of view is that
you can set up a company there, and you
put in 200,000 euro into the company in
Cyprus while your your
visa goes through, your your tax
residency and visas and paperwork and
all that stuff. And then you can
withdraw 75% of that straight back out, right?
right?
I think it was 200,000 euro. So, basically,
basically,
you put a little bit of money into the
company, and then you got to pay
yourself a minimum of
4,000 euro a month or 2,000 euro a
month. I can't remember what I'm doing.
It's two or 4,000 euro a month. And the
tax on that is maybe 5,000 euro a year,
right? Nothing. It's like eight 9,000
Australian dollars a year in tax. The
rest of the money stays in the company,
and you pay 12.5% corporate tax on that
income, and then dividends are
are
out of the company are tax-free. So,
effectively, if you're making say a
million dollars a year, you pay 12.5%
corporate tax, which is 125 grand a
year, and 850,000 of it is
distributed to you as a dividend tax-free.
tax-free.
So, your effective tax rate is 12.5% and
you're living on a Mediterranean island,
which is fantastic, right? So, it's
really if you're a tech company, you can
apply for what they call a
special box exemption, and your tax rate
is I think it's 1.5%. Wow.
>> Which is just crazy. And there's that's
why there's a lot of tech companies in
Cyprus, a lot of gambling, tech,
all that sort of stuff. So, Cyprus is
really good, but the other really big
thing about it is you only have to spend
60 days a year there for your tax
residency so long as you don't spend
more than 6 months anywhere else. So, as
long as you don't trigger tax residency
anywhere else in the world, you can be
there for as little as 60 days a year
and be considered a Cyprus tax resident.
And you can apply for a passport and
citizenship within 3 years with a basic
Greek language test as well. So,
[snorts] it's a very very interesting
place. Panama is interesting. So, to
answer the question why Panama,
Panama has what's called territorial
tax, which means
if you are a Panamanian tax resident,
you only pay tax on what you make in
Panama. Everything else outside of that,
you you fill out your tax term once a
year, you just put a number in. I made a
million dollars. How much in Panama?
Zero. Thank you. You don't owe us
anything. Have a nice year. End of tax year.
year.
>> if you have a physical business in
Panama and you're taking money from
Pana- Panamanians. >> Panamanians.
>> Panamanians.
>> So, if you're buying and selling real
estate there, you're going to pay tax.
If you're selling if you open a coffee
shop, you're going to pay tax.
>> Yeah. But if you're running a business
like you run, a coaching business,
and you're in Panama, no tax at all on a
worldwide income. If you've got assets
in Australia or anywhere else, it's all
tax-free in Panama. And they're very
very non-intrusive government. The
compliance is simple and low cost. I'm
buying a home there on their investor
program. So, you buy a property, minimum
300,000 US.
>> That's the way into becoming a tax
citizen through Panama. You have to buy
a home. There's two ways. One, you can
become a resident and be there for 5 years.
years.
So, you got to be a
tax resident for
2 years, then
then
Sorry, for 7 years. And then you can
apply for citizenship after seven. Or
you can buy a property,
and it's guaranteed that you will be
naturalized in 5 years if you want to
be. You have to pass a Spanish test and
a history test. But if you spend 300,000
US on a property that you can sell at
the end of the 5-year period, you have
to hold it for 5 years.
Um you get a travel passport within 8
weeks, but you're not a naturalized
citizen. You've got a Panamanian travel
travel passport. Your citizenship comes
5 years later, and then you are
a Panamanian citizen, and you don't have
to renounce your first citizenship. So,
you can stay an Australian citizen. And
you only have to be there once every 2
[clears throat] years
from a Panamanian point of view. So, my understanding
understanding >> [clears throat]
>> [clears throat]
>> um so far
is because everyone like you start
having this conversation with anyone
who's uneducated and they just go, "Oh,
just set up in Dubai." Just cuz that's
what everyone talks about, right? Um but
from my understanding is if you're an
Australian anyway, um I'm not sure about
other countries, but as an Australian,
you you have to actually leave as a tax
citizen. So, am I correct by saying
this? So, if you're still in Australia
and you like live there and whatever,
um that if you set up in say Panama,
Mhm. and your business is set up there,
but the business in Panama makes money,
you'd still be taxed in Australia,
wouldn't you? Until you leave as a tax
citizen. Is that right?
>> This is very very important, and a lot
of uneducated people out there think I
can live in Australia, set up a company
in Dubai or Panama and avoid paying
taxes. No, that bad bad advice. If you
live in Australia and you enjoy the
benefits of living in Australia um for
more than 183 days a year, and that's
not the only test, by the way. Um
in my opinion, you should pay tax in
Australia. You're living there, you've
got the roads, you've got the police,
you've got the health system, you're
using your Medicare card, all that
stuff. So, to be very very clear,
um and this is not financial advice or
tax advice. You should seek professional
advice in this matter. But to leave
Australia, you have and not be a tax
resident, you have to literally leave
properly. I sold up everything I had
except for one property, which I own
with a friend, which is a big commercial
property. It has a couple of hundred
tenants in it. So, we own that together
still. I'm the minority shareholder. He
owns the major shareholding in that.
That's only thing that we kept.
Everything else I sold. I don't have
anything in Australia, any I don't have
I've got a car and a home, but they're
both sold, but pending settlement. So, I
don't have a life in Australia. I don't
go to Australia. I'm not in Australia.
So, for all intents and purposes, I'm
gone. And importantly, I paid what's
called deemed disposal tax. And this is
very important. Most people don't know
about this, but when you leave Australia
and you want to hand in your resignation
notice to the ATO, you that you they will
will
assess you have to assess your assets
and pay um capital gains tax on those
assets as if you had sold them. A bit
like unrealized capital gains.
>> Unrealized gains. Yeah, unrealized
gains. So, I do assess my Bitcoin and my
other assets,
>> Wow. what I bought them for, what they
were worth on the day I leave, and then
pay the tax that's owed. And so, all my
buildings, like industrial buildings, of
course I paid capital gains tax, right?
My home was my principal place of
residence. No no no tax on that. But my
Tesla bag, my Bitcoin bag, all that had
to have taxes paid on it. So, exiting
wasn't free. It was freaking expensive.
You're talking seven figures in taxes to
leave. But I'm out. And from now, I
compound tax-free, but I paid the proper
price for that freedom. So, to only all
this not paying tax stuff only works if
you really leave the country. But and
this comes down to whether you should or
shouldn't do it. It comes down to you
doing the math on how much money are you
making each year, how much are you
investing, what's your capital base, and
what's that kegering at. So, if you've
got a million dollars that's
compounding, let's say it's in Bitcoin
at 25% a year, you go to Grok and say,
"I've got a million dollars in Bitcoin.
If it kegers at 25% a year for for 10
years, and I'm going to be away, how
much is that going to be worth at the
end of 10 years?" And work out, okay,
well, I might pay, you know, $200,000 in
tax today, but um my Bitcoin stack is
tax-free from that point on. It What
does that work out to? And for me it was
an absolute no-brainer, you know. Mhm. So,
So,
So, let's say you you go down the road,
you've completely left as a tax citizen.
How many How long are you allowed back
in Australia per year for? Right now, up
to uh 182 days. Really? So, 6 months.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, about 6 months. But
they they are planning on changing that.
I don't know if it's
>> it was 3 months. No, no, it's still it's
still 183, but there's talk of it being
reduced to two to three months. Mhm. Um
and there's also talk, like in the UK,
where they're they're bringing in a a
wealth tax if you leave. So, that
they're going to be introducing 20% of
your net worth
is your exit tax. So, we have deemed
disposal in the UK it's 20% and
Australia obviously I think personally
you you might have seen the press last
week that the ATO now is stopping people
leaving the country via their passport
if they owe the ATO money. I don't know
if you saw that story.
>> Yeah, so get the headline was ATO is
clipping tax
tax wings and they're just stopping
people at the airport saying you owe
tax, you can't leave until you pay your
tax. Why is So, this is another thing
I've seen, right? So, I I um
I'm a bit of a um I don't open my mouth
and speak on anything unless I unless I
would Here's my rule. If I would argue
Piers Morgan on the matter, I'll talk
about it. If I won't, I don't talk about
it. So,
these are things I've just seen, so I
I'd love it if you you hopefully
understand more, but why is this So,
what I have seen is Australia as a
country is such a mineral-rich country.
We have a lot of things that other
countries want. And what I've seen is a
similar country to compare with is I
think Norway.
Uh they have a lot of natural gases and
things like this. And because they have
that, or maybe Norway or Denmark or one
of these Scandinavian countries, because
they have this, their citizens are taxed
lower and life's a lot easier because
they're like, "Well, we've got all these
amazing Our country is rich, so let's do
this." So,
from my understanding, Australia is very
mineral-rich. We can make a lot of money
with oils and gases and things like
this, but it seems like they're
so scared of like they're not letting
people leave unless you owe them money.
What's going on here? Why Why do you
think it seems like Australia are
worried like they're about to go
bankrupt, but they shouldn't be because
we can make so much money as a country?
We have a government that is focused on
all of the wrong things. Like it is,
you know, we are seeing massive
widespread fraud in NDIS just for one
example. Like flat-out thievery. There's
an article on uh 9MSN this week in Australia
Australia
saying that in parts of Sydney, there
are more NDIS providers than cafes,
right? There's There's one NDIS like I
think it's Lakemba, which is
um where there where there's a lot of
controversy because of all the um the
mosques that want to do the calls to
prayer now and broadcast out calls to
prayer across Lakemba, which I think is
an absolute disgrace, but um
in Lakemba, there is one NDIS provider
for every three people that live in Lakemba.
Lakemba.
Wow. You're right. And And And And some
of these in this expose that was in on 9
News last week,
some of them are like the email address
is mail@mail.com,
you know, um it's just a joke. And And
And there's $50 a year being ripped off
the Australian people. Now, not all of
it of course is fraud, and it's not the
disabled people. Obviously, most
Australians would agree that if
somebody's genuinely disabled, then we
should support. We should be a rich
company country that supports it. But
Julia Gillard, when she brought the NDIS
in, she brought it in in such a way
where all of the states have to agree in
order for it to be dismantled. And what
politician is going to win by saying,
"Hey, I'm going to defund disabled
people funding?" Mhm. It's impossible,
right? Like because the other side's
just going to rip them to shreds and
say, you know, "Morgan's the politician
that doesn't want to help poor Sally
here in a wheelchair, right?" Like
you're never going to win. So, she has
put a a chalice around the neck of
Australia that is costing the country
north of a billion dollars a week and
getting worse.
It's It's crazy. Mhm. So, we have a we
have a government that is grossly
mismanaging our things. They're They're
stopping moms and dads at airports who
owe, you know,
50 grand to the ATO when we're seeing
this kind of industrial-scale theft. Um
And And you know, I was in Boracay not
long ago and I had a cigar with a guy
from uh the Emirates. And I asked him a
question. I said, "How do you in in um
uh he was in in Dubai. He was He was
somewhere else. Um
I might have been in Oman or somewhere.
I said, "How do you think about your ruling
ruling
families that that rule you guys, like
your government? How do you feel about
them?" He says, "We feel about our government
government
like a child that is loved by a father."
And I'm like,
Wait, I was trying to imagine any
Australian describing their relationship
with Albo that way.
>> Yeah, yeah. Not even a Labor supporter
would use those words. He said,
"Our government loves us as a people and
treats us accord- We share in the wealth
of our country. We are looked after."
Mhm. Now, a lot of the left
virtue-signaling weakies that are
listening to this will be in the
comments now going, "Yeah, but how does
Dubai treat their slave labor?"
Well, frankly, as a Dubai citizen, I
care about Dubai citizens, right? And
there's There's I don't care about other
people coming in as much. I want the
country I'm part of to look after its
people first, right? And I think a lot
of Australians would agree with that now
that the government and the resources
should be common wealth. We don't have
common wealth in Australia. And, you
know, I interviewed Gerard Rennick and
he talked about who I think is one of
the best politicians in Australia. He's
extremely smart. Um
And he talked about this idea on our
podcast that we should have a you know,
like a federal wealth fund for the
Australian people. But we don't. You
know, we don't have a sovereign wealth
fund in Australia. Um
Um
But we should and Australians should
benefit directly from that in free child
care or discounted medical. And
Australians are, you know, who hear my
story of leaving Australia that
uneducated, they say, "You You're a You
You're gutless. You fled the system. I
bet you don't You don't You didn't give
up your Medicare card." And I'm like,
"Mate, that Medicare card's the most
expensive card in my wallet. Costs me 2%
a year, Mhm. right? How often do I go to
the doctor? Very, very rarely. And even
if I do use it, I'm still in private
health care and I don't use it anyway.
Mhm. So, it's not free health care in
Australia. That's another scam that
Australians have bought into. It's expensive.
expensive.
>> Yeah, you have to pay it in your in your
taxes and people don't know about that.
Oh, yeah, and that's huge. It's a lot.
Mhm. So, anyway, yes, I could go on. So,
So, I want to understand the numbers,
okay? So, just so people can actually
start to figure this out. So, let's say,
for example, next year I make a million
dollars in profit. Um do you know what
the actual difference is of what someone
will pay in uh
company taxes in Australia versus let's
just say Cyprus?
Yeah, well, in Cyprus, just just for uh it's
it's
If you're saying profit, net profit, you
pay 100 you know, 125,000 in Cyprus and
then zero
on anything else. So, in Australia,
you'd pay 27 cents on the dollar. I
haven't looked at it recently, but what
is it? 20 cents on the dollar for
corporate tax?
>> 25% for a small business, it says. 30%.
I I think it uh
Well, [clears throat] first you got GST.
Yeah, straight off the bat. We've
already paid that, right? You You paid
that along the way before you even got
to that.
>> actually, let's put it on then. Cuz it's
like there's no there's no GST in uh in Cyprus.
Cyprus.
>> If you're just looking at it, you go
250, then whatever you take out, you're
going to be paying top-up tax to your
marginal rate. 47%. So, if you take
anything out over What is it? It'll
scale up.
>> 150k, I think. Well, let's say you paid
100 grand a year to yourself
um throughout the year. That'll That'll
start you on it. And then if you want to
take the other 750 out of the If you've
got a million, you pay 250 in corporate
tax. If you want to point the other 750
at you. Yeah, well, you can point it at
kids and through family trusts and
different things and distribute it,
which is what most people do. But if you
point it at directly at you, yeah, you
pay, you know, hundreds of thousands of
dollars more to be able to put that
money into your own name um and then use
it however you want. Whereas in Cyprus,
you pay 125, the rest can come to you
personally. You do whatever you want
with it.
And the difference, Morgan, what that that's
that's
it's not just money, right? Like I've
said this to a lot of people
who've asked me this. Sure, you know,
you love it being out of Australia
because you don't pay as much tax. But
the biggest thing is bandwidth. Like you
as an Australian entrepreneur and all my
mates, they're they're constantly
juggling their head, trust structures
and division 7A loans and who to
distribute that to and loan agreements
and all this.
When you leave, and I'll be set up in
Panama soon on a territorial tax system,
I don't need to worry about any of that.
The money that comes into my company, I
can take it and spend it and do whatever
I want with it.
And I don't have to worry I don't have
to keep receipts. I don't have to do
anything. I I don't need a I don't need
an accountant. I don't need zero. I
don't need to worry about whether I
should be spending money, you know, on
June 15th to try and lower my tax
liability and buy a Hilux ute. It's all tax-free.
tax-free.
It It The The bandwidth and the freedom
of thought and the way you approach life
is just so different, right? When your
tax burden is, you know, lower to none,
right? And this sovereign life, once
you've left, it's addictive as hell. You
know, like I I often now go out to
dinner and I'll just
I can pay. I don't have to worry cuz I'm
sitting with the Aussies and I'm like,
"You poor bastards, let me do this, all
right? Like I don't know how much you're
giving the ATO."
And someone says, "You just seem happy."
I'm like, "Well, I gave up this shitty
job working for the tax department where
I worked till Thursday morning for the
government. Of course I'm happier. I
don't have that job anymore. I
I fired myself from that job." Yeah.
Yeah, so it's cuz the the equivalent is
So, like even let's just say on on the
on the easy side, if you're only paying
to get paid the the 25% even the 35%
including, you know, GST and
tax, you're you're working over 1/3 of
your entire week to the government first
before you take anything. And then even
what you do get next, you got to be
careful how you do take that as well.
Maybe. You'll get taxed even on that
second level of tax.
>> stop there. Like I bought a 911 Carrera
before I left. I I bought a uh
right?
I went down to the main roads department
to get it registered. It was 25 or
35,000 dollars or something. What? In in
in tax.
>> In stamp duty. In stamp duty on the car,
right? And and that was another one by
the way. I I
I saw that they're now using AI to
cross-reference what you claim at main
roads in Australia. Like a lot of people
when they buy a motorbike or car
>> Yeah, yeah. they they buy they buy 385
and then they go, "Yeah, I paid 200."
>> Uh-huh. And it cuts the stamp duty. Now
they're using AI to data match and then
sending you fines of thousands and
thousands of dollars to Australians
who've who've done that. So just it just
what I'm saying is even if you pay all
those taxes, they're far from done.
Every time you fill your fuel up, I
don't know what it is, 1/3 of your fuel
when you fill it up is tax. You buy a
It's It is fuel excise tax. It's It's
something like a third of that $2 a
liter is tax. When you register a car,
it's tax. When you pay stamp duty on a
car, it's tax. When you buy and sell
houses, you know, stamp duty. Right.
Like it does not stop at your tax bill
and rich people tend to spend money and
there's tax in everything. It's I I've
I've seen studies on it. It's something like
like
I I I think it's something like 70% or
something by the time it's all said and
done of what you paid in income taxes
and then what you paid with the post-tax
money in taxes that are hidden in
things, alcohol, cigarettes, all this
other stuff that people buy. Well, yeah,
I've noticed um I don't know if you've
noticed buying cigars here in Bali. Mhm.
Um I cuz my favorite cigar are the
Montecristos or the H. Uppmanns. And
I'll go and buy them and the other day I
I I interrogated the person for like 10
minutes cuz I'm like, "Where are they
made? How do you get that?" Cuz I'm
like, "They're fake." I'm like, "How are
they only $55?"
And I'm like, "In Australia, I'll pay 90
95 dollars for one of them." And I'm
like, "Holy fuck." Like that would it
would have to be taxed because they're
coming from somewhere. I'm like to to
import that to Indonesia versus
Australia, it's not going to be
significantly more difference, very
similar part of the world. Um it's
taxes, which is it'd be like 40%. Wild.
Wild.
>> It's everywhere. So and Australians, I
mean it's just like the old frog
analogy, right? It's just been slowly
turned up, slowly turned up, slowly
turned up. And I notice it in everyday
life in just how Australians are not as
relaxed and easygoing as they once were
because the cost of living is so out of
control now. Like I went one of my good
friends just came back yesterday from
Adelaide. He lives in Cyprus now. He
moved not long after me. He said, "Adam,
I went to the pub and it was $58 for a
pub meal." You know, like for for like a
salmon and or whatever, steak and chips
and a beer or something, it was 58
bucks. Yeah. And and I was like, "Holy
crap, [laughter] like it's it's wild."
>> Mhm. You know, it's just so expensive
now and and I think that's why people
are just sort of waking up. Whereas last
night I went out to dinner with here in
Bali there was four of us. We had all
the desserts on the menu.
We had a glass of wine each. Couple of
us had a cocktail. Everything all
together for four of us and it was
beautiful. It was like 90 bucks. It was
just crazy.
So how long were you thinking like how
long was the decision-making process for
you to actually leave? Like how long
were you thinking about doing this
before you actually pulled the trigger
and did it?
I would say probably two or three years.
Wow. That I was studying, watching
Andrew at Nomad Capitalist and Okay.
>> just sort of fantasizing and daydreaming
and then I just once I got sort of
semi-retired and got out of the
day-to-day of my business and just had
more time to think about how much
I'm spending on just compliance, just
like what I was paying my accountant. I
think my accountant is was across my
entities was 40 grand a year just just
to account for the taxes, you know?
That's one thing I didn't think about
until this week as well. I was like the
the people I wouldn't have to pay
anymore. I was like, "Well, the whole my
accounting team all all the meetings I
have every week with my team to
cross-reference and I'm like, I
wouldn't have to do any of that." Mate,
every time I pull up at a fuel station,
you go to Ampol and you fill up and I
take a photo of the receipt and then I
email it to my bookkeeper.
>> Yeah. All of that stops. It just goes
away out of your life. These emails say,
"Hey Adam, at the end of the month we
have 15 inquiries from your credit card
statement. Can you help us
cross-reconcile this?"
>> Yeah. It's the last It's what I call a
red light activity. And one day I just
went, "You know what? I'm done with this
shit." And I was writing another
transferring more money to the ATO and I
"This is your tax estimation. Here's the
what you got to pay for the quarter in
advance." And it gets adjusted at the
end of the year and I'm just like, "What
am I doing?" You know, I'm going to get
a rate and you have multiple properties
and all the rates notices come in
together and you're paying out tens of
thousands of dollars in rates notices
and da da da da da da.
I said, "I've played this game long
enough." And I just sold everything.
Over the course of 9 months, I sold all
my industrial buildings, my home,
everything, my cars, everything. Went
liquid and bought my ticket and
the feeling was so good, man. Like once
I left,
um I just took time, just sat summing
cash, put a bunch into other things,
equities and different things.
But the bandwidth and the freedom in my
head is just profoundly different. Um
I just feel so much happier and you
realize once you leave Australians play
business at like an elite level, right?
Like at Olympic level. It's It's because
you you know, it's hard. It's hard to
make money in Australia and it's even
harder to keep it after taxes and all
the other And staff probably one
of the worst staff bases to recruit from
in the in the world in terms of value
for money. They're so expensive. They're
incentivized to sue you and give you a
hard time.
We're seeing massive increases in
workplace claims, you know, uh because
they've realized there's money in unfair
dismissal claims and
work cover and those are the other
things, you know, there's payroll tax
when you get over a million dollars of
payroll, they slug you another tax and
your own employees that you're giving
good jobs to are suing you if if you for
whatever reason. I'm just like, "Yeah,
this. I'm gone." Yeah. And
Yeah, and so it took me that long, but
then when I did it,
it was phenomenal feeling and it's it's
been good. I've met incredible people
and new opportunities and there's great
opportunities outside of Australia.
How How much do you think was your
decision based off the money versus
actually just the people in Australia?
Was Was that a decision-maker for you as
well to actually
get out and rub shoulders with different
people as well to get away from the way
that unfortunately most Aussies think.
One of the most formative experiences of
my life was in 2011 I left Australia for
the first time and I moved to Los Angeles.
Angeles.
And I set up an animation studio in
Hollywood and I built it for 5 years and
I sold it, but I built four other
companies at the same time. Two two of
the other ones, the three of the five
succeeded and became really good
businesses. Two of my wound up, right?
But that 5-year experience in Los Angeles
Angeles
just brought me alive. You know, like I
was tired of Australia at that time of
just how difficult it was, how entitled
the employees had become even back then,
how expensive staff was. Australians you
have to pay them to turn up, you have to
incentivize them to work when they get
there and they think it's culturally
normal to just chuck a sickie on
Melbourne Cup. This is
this is industrial scale theft that's
just normalized, right? Behind all those
businesses that the Australian employee
is by just pretending to be sick
and claiming that's somebody's family's
money, right? That you've just taken off
all those pay for nothing. You you
actually stole from them, but it's
normalized in Australia. Um
so I I but when I went to LA and I lived
there for 5 years and I saw America and
that that system of entrepreneurship and
enterprise and how much support and
encouragement and will for you to win
was present, there was no tall poppy
syndrome. You know, I bought a Bentley.
It was the first gift I gave myself 3
years into my animation company and my
and my Amazon business, which was
booming. I
compounded every dollar I had into the
business into the business into the
business and then one December I went,
"You know, I'm going to buy myself a
gift." And I went down and bought a
brand new Bentley convertible. And I got
to the dealership and like the the guys
that were there shopping, not just the
the customer got, "Congratulations,
brother. That's a cool car." And driving
home, people waving and saying, "Cool, a
brand new Bentley convertible with the
roof off."
And the In Australia, they would say,
"What a dickhead." You know, like
like
>> And it's double the price in Australia
as well.
>> Yeah, double the price. Like you can get
a you can get a G Wagon in in America,
you don't even have to be that rich to
buy it. What? 180 K?
>> I bought the Bentley. It's half the
price of what it would have been in Australia.
Australia.
>> Yeah. And I drove down Beverly Hills and
the PCH1 and did all the things and
but I saw this different culture and
when I come back to Australia, I never
could shake it after that. I almost once
I moved back to Australia, I bought an
apartment on the beach and I went to
walk down to Broadbeach and I was
wearing quite trendy clothes cuz I'd
just come from America and had my
glasses on. And these guys went past and
they commented or yelling out the window
cuz I was wearing glasses like, "You
look like a pedo, mate." You know, cuz
I'm wearing these thick rim glasses,
which were quite fashionable back then.
But that's Australia, right? But the
reason I left this time was partially
that. I had the dream life. I had the
beautiful, you know, 7 million dollar
home paid for, multi eight-figure
portfolio of property and everything.
But all anybody wanted to talk about was
home prices, maths, and the football. Mhm.
Mhm.
>> And I was like, "I am so done with this
conversation. I am over it." Like I want
to talk about other things in life than
just property prices, football, and
maths, you know? And Australians are so
close-minded, they've become so rich
that in some cases I find them intolerable.
intolerable. Um
Um
And you they're becoming and I hate to
dunk on Australians, but when I grew up
it was always that we used to joke about
the loudmouth Americans, you know, when
you travel. Well, Australia's becoming
that. You see it in Bali, the loudmouth
drunk Aussies in Seminyak. It's
embarrassing. It's a culture that you know,
know,
is is not great sometimes. Yeah, I I cuz
someone asked me the other day like like
where where does tall poppy syndrome
come from? And and I looked into it like
trying to really think about it. I was
like maybe is it from you know, I think
you were only like what? Six, seven
generations from convicts.
Um and and the convicts that did come
weren't like crazy convicts. They were
just whatever, they stole bread or or
whatever. And and I someone said to me
that like the problem with Australians
isn't that we're descendants of
convicts, is that we're descendants from
the guards. Mhm, interesting.
interesting.
>> that makes a lot of sense actually. Cuz
we're descendants from people that were
just the bullies, that were just you
know, stay low and they're they're just
the guards, they're here just punishing
and and we never really outgrew that
kind of mentality. The cross between the
mentality of going
um you know, don't put your head up cuz
if you do, you'll get completely
punished, you can be kicked to another country.
country.
Uh so this you know, shut up, sit down,
keep your head down. And then also the
cross between of of all the guards.
And and it is unfortunately a very
it's a crappy trait. And I had a similar
experience when I went to America. The
first time I went to America I nearly
got in a fight with a I was doing a
personal development event. And I nearly
I nearly just um
I mean I got into personal development
because I was an angry And um I
was 22 years old at this uh leadership
event and I was the only Aussie in in
the class. And
And
I thought the person next to me was
patronizing the out of me and I'm
like, say another I'll break
your jaw, right? Cuz he's like, yeah,
good good job, buddy. I'm so proud of
you. And I'm just like, I'll
drop you. >> [laughter]
>> [laughter]
>> Cuz if you do that to an Australian like
that, he's like he's just patronizing.
But then I was like, this guy he
actually wants me to succeed. He's
actually proud of me. I I couldn't I I
couldn't wrap my head around it. And
every time I go to America, that it's um
like I'm going there in a few weeks. I'm
texting some of my friends over there
now. And um
like every time I go there, it's um
people like, you got to meet this
person, meet this person. Here's their
number, here text me, text me, text.
Everyone's just like that. Whereas in
Australia people are like, oh like it's
this Very close.
>> They protect their their patch. Yeah.
Cuz it's a small place and and we know
that a good idea is going to be copied
by people and uh they have a they don't
have that same abundance mentality.
Yeah. It's a it's sad. I I I want
Australia to return to how it was and I
think it partly and when I say return to
how it was,
what I said at the start was Australians
when they're on form are the best people
in the world. And I think it's this
stress, this pressure that's come into
modern life and frustration and that
Australia has become a very wealthy
country and sometimes a little bit
arrogant. Um and you know, people who've
bought two or three properties and now
think they're super smart because they
went up through the roof, so they walk
around like they're super smart, right?
Like there's
they have this term the dumb rich. Like
Australia on the world there's a global
index for the sophistication of work to
achieve our income, our GDP. And
Australia is like 113th in the world for
the complexity index, something like
that. You can look it up on Grokets.
It's really embarrassing. We're like
below third world countries for the
complexity of how our GDP is generated
cuz we dig holes and we create dirt, put
on a ship, and send it to China. Whereas
you look at countries like Singapore and
these other places that aren't blessed
with our riches and resources, they have
to become very, very uh
like Taiwan, you know, the complexity
index through the roof cuz they create
the chips. So there's a lot more
intelligence out there in the world.
Australians are just blessed with a lot
of natural resources and a beautiful
country where millions of people are
wanting to flood in here. So property
owners have gotten rich just as a result
of nothing to do with them. It's like
the person who's won the genetic gene
pool. It's like the the hot person with
a really personality. That is what
Australia's become. [laughter]
Okay. So can you walk me through the the
process? So let's say I'm listening to
this podcast.
Um I want to do what you've done.
Also knowing what you know now, cuz
would you go Cyprus, would you go Dubai,
would you go Panama? What is the actual
process? What are the steps is if if if
I've now made a decision, I do want to
leave Australia, I want to be smart with
my money. What is the steps, what's the
process, what do I need to avoid doing?
Um and obviously not financial advice.
The first step is doing the math. Like
to to actually follow through, I always
say to people the gravitational pull of
staying where you are is very strong. So
like to actually leave a country and
like sell up your stuff, tell your
friends and family that you're leaving,
buying a ticket, and then going, Mhm.
it's so many parts along the way that
you'll just
uh it's not that bad here, let's just
stay, right?
>> Yeah. So to actually pull the trigger
and go through with it, in my opinion,
you have to have done the math and you
have to have your partner on board. Both
of you have to be united and going, hey,
we've done the math. This is how much
we're making right now. Project forward
if your business grows 10, 20% a year,
you know, over the whatever it is, you
look back on your history, your business
is growing at much more, I'm sure.
So if your business is going to continue
that trajectory, do the math on where it
is in 5 years, how much tax are you
going to pay by staying?
Um and then look at your capital base
today. How many bits of real estate,
what's your asset base look like? What
will it cost to sell it all, liquidate?
What could you do with that money? Could
you invest it into something like Tesla
or Bitcoin or something that you believe
in? And where will it be in 10 years if
we look at this as a 10-year, you know,
journey? So do the math because when you
do the math and and then go, okay, cost
of living difference between staying in
Australia, living in Bali, right? Et
cetera. And do all the math and all of
that. That forms a really, really strong
base. Once you've got that conviction in
place, then go and talk to an
accountant, right? That can help you
with this.
Um and uh you know, that that that
that's the next thing. You understand
your liabilities and so on.
And and then you uh find somebody on the
other side who can help you. A
consultant that can help you. Um
Um
So uh that that's pretty easy to find,
to be honest. Um there's plenty of
people, you know, accounts and
immigration lawyers and experts in all
of these countries that can help you and
I can certainly connect people with
those as well.
And then buy a ticket. Like when you buy
a ticket and you set a date, that's the
deadline. You're leaving the country on
that day and then everything will start
to move the moment you buy the ticket. Um
Um
and before that, it's all talk. But when
you buy the ticket, do it. And if you
can, buy a business class ticket, treat
yourself. Seriously, a friend of mine
just left. Another mate who just left is
actually staying at my place here in
Bali right at the moment. And I said,
dude, when you buy the ticket, just just
buy the business ticket. And he wouldn't
normally do that. And he said, why? I
said, because it's an extra thousand
bucks from Australia to Bali for the
business class ticket. This is a big
moment in your life. Give yourself the
celebration of doing it that way cuz
you're starting a new life now going
forward. And he did it cuz you know
what? That was the best thing I
did. I got to the airport, I jumped
straight to the front of the line, and
it's just triggered his mindset into a
new way of being. And as soon as we sat
down together,
I got him to cuz he's he's from Melbourne.
Melbourne.
We're at breakfast and the first day I
watched him eat his food
and I was maybe halfway through my bowl
and he had the same things and it was
gone. And I said, dude,
tomorrow when we eat, we're going to sit
down, we're going to observe the bowl
for a minute first before we eat. We
need to slow down, brother. You're out
of the rat race now. And over the coming
few weeks, I just watched this guy's
shoulders dropped. I watched his
dress. Now he's in Bali, he's got one
extra button undone. Like [laughter] you
can just see the the the stress uh going
out of his life. It's just beautiful to
watch. Mhm. So
as a
country-wise, what would be if you were
to redo it all, would you still go the
same route? Would you still pick Cyprus
over Dubai or Panama or there's a lot of
countries to do it or would you still go
the same route? The biggest
consideration here, in my opinion, is
how are you making money, right? And and
where are you going to bank, right?
Because if you're if you're running a
business and you need to bank money into
a country and let's say it's your
business, I don't know what your
business does, but let's say your
business does $10 million a year.
There's a million dollars a month of
cash that's got to go somewhere. That's
a big consideration. Would you want to
bank a million dollars of cash into a
Cyprus bank every year? Probably not,
given what happened in 2014, the
government came and gave everybody a
haircut and just
just basically
took I think it was 30, 40% or 50% of
everybody's bank balances and then the
the rest were frozen for 5 years. What?
Yeah, no about that. Why? Yeah. Well,
they got themselves into trouble, right?
So they just they just stopped.
>> Just took money from me. Just took
money. My friend Tony Yazbeck who runs
The Bitcoin Way, he's from Lebanon, the
banks just closed and took everyone's
money. All the ATMs just stopped working
one night. Everyone got up the next day,
all the ATMs have stopped, lines at the
banks. 2018 or 19, from memory. Um and
that's why he's run The Bitcoin Way and
is much more massive Bitcoin advocate
because he just said, when it goes
south, I mean people in Lebanon there,
they were
I I
cuz I had one of my best friends today.
I've had those conversations. What was
that like? Like what sort of went
down when you literally only have what
was in your wallet overnight. He was
retired. He'd had a lifetime of
cybersecurity, was wealthy, done,
mid-40s, all of a sudden it disappears overnight.
overnight.
Different conversation, but so if you're
looking at these jurisdictions and you
have an operational business that's at
some scale and you're How old are you?
32. 32. So you've got I'm 52, nearly,
right? So there's 20 You've still got 20
years of building businesses. You're
going to make significant cash flow,
right? So where you bank is going to
matter. So you probably don't want to
bank in Cyprus, so you might So you get
a very stable country. Yeah, you might
have a tax base there, but open a
subsidiary in Dubai and bank into Dubai
where the banks are stronger or
Singapore, right? Um
so that depends. For me, I don't have
operational businesses now. I'm an
investor. So, mine's all about capital
gains tax. I live fairly moderately, few
hundred grand a year.
Most of my wealth is in the growing of
my capital base now. So, I want to be
somewhere that's not going to tax my
capital growth.
You put the you put your assets in just
other like you're you're not holding
cash in a bank in a random country.
>> no. No, I I wouldn't hold much cash in
in foreign banks. I'm a bitcoiner, so I
I hold them money elsewhere. So, I hold them in equities. I hold them in
I hold them in equities. I hold them in sometimes in I still have some real
sometimes in I still have some real estate. I just bought a significant
estate. I just bought a significant stake in a 38-room hotel here in Bali.
stake in a 38-room hotel here in Bali. Um I'm looking at building a hotel in
Um I'm looking at building a hotel in Indonesia as well. Um
Indonesia as well. Um So, I have some in real estate still. Uh
So, I have some in real estate still. Uh Bitcoin and equities. Yeah. But not in
Bitcoin and equities. Yeah. But not in Australia. Mm. Okay. Is Is there
Australia. Mm. Okay. Is Is there anything you miss about Australia?
anything you miss about Australia? You know, mate, I have not missed one
You know, mate, I have not missed one single day since I honestly I haven't
single day since I honestly I haven't looked at real estate.com.au.
looked at real estate.com.au. There's not one day where I've gone,
There's not one day where I've gone, "Geez, I'd like to be back in Australia
"Geez, I'd like to be back in Australia right now." Not for a second. I went
right now." Not for a second. I went back there just recently just to do some
back there just recently just to do some stuff I had to take care of.
stuff I had to take care of. And I just couldn't wait to get back on
And I just couldn't wait to get back on the plane. I just honestly I I cannot
the plane. I just honestly I I cannot stand the place. Mm. Which is it's just
stand the place. Mm. Which is it's just it's so focused on
it's so focused on you know, wealth and property
you know, wealth and property accumulation and those things that I I'm
accumulation and those things that I I'm just not there anymore. And in my social
just not there anymore. And in my social media like I put up a
media like I put up a post the other night. I said, "Oh, you
post the other night. I said, "Oh, you know, here's a video of like a house
know, here's a video of like a house that I looked at." Um and I said it's
that I looked at." Um and I said it's 700,000 Australian dollars. It's
700,000 Australian dollars. It's beautiful house in Bali for 700 grand,
beautiful house in Bali for 700 grand, right?
right? And the comments were like, "Who'd want
And the comments were like, "Who'd want to live in Bali? What a shithole." And
to live in Bali? What a shithole." And all this. And I'm like, "That's the
all this. And I'm like, "That's the mentality that I just cannot stand." I'm
mentality that I just cannot stand." I'm like, "You know that there are 200
like, "You know that there are 200 million people here in Indonesia who are
million people here in Indonesia who are lovely lovely people and you just
lovely lovely people and you just all over their country without one
all over their country without one second thought. What a What a dump." You
second thought. What a What a dump." You know, I'm like,
know, I'm like, like why would you What's What's your
like why would you What's What's your broken, right? Like
broken, right? Like Bali is a beautiful place. Indonesian
Bali is a beautiful place. Indonesian people are the best in the world, but
people are the best in the world, but Australians just sometimes just become
Australians just sometimes just become that really bad personality, that toxic
that really bad personality, that toxic personality in a beautiful body.
personality in a beautiful body. And when I go back to Australia, I see
And when I go back to Australia, I see it. There are a lot of great Aussies as
it. There are a lot of great Aussies as well, but
well, but I don't know. There's just so much about
I don't know. There's just so much about the country now, this left um
the country now, this left um woke government. Um
woke government. Um I I It just maddens me to watch the the
I I It just maddens me to watch the the gross mismanagement of money, this
gross mismanagement of money, this attempt to silence people, trying to
attempt to silence people, trying to stop kids going onto social media and
stop kids going onto social media and the way they're doing it. Everyone knows
the way they're doing it. Everyone knows it's really for controlling free speech
it's really for controlling free speech and digital ID. Like they're just trying
and digital ID. Like they're just trying to control the out of Australians.
to control the out of Australians. They're robbing them through inflation.
They're robbing them through inflation. They're robbing them through taxes. Um
They're robbing them through taxes. Um you've got a running the country.
you've got a running the country. He's never run a business in his life,
He's never run a business in his life, never had a job out away from
never had a job out away from university, straight into government.
university, straight into government. Now he's running the country. What a
Now he's running the country. What a tool. Like these people should
tool. Like these people should not be allowed to run the country. And
not be allowed to run the country. And all the that I see at the
all the that I see at the government level, I'm just ashamed to be
government level, I'm just ashamed to be Australian. We need a Donald Trump type
Australian. We need a Donald Trump type character to go That's why One Nation is
character to go That's why One Nation is where they are now, just surpassed the
where they are now, just surpassed the liberals in support because Australians
liberals in support because Australians are sick of it. And um I don't know how
are sick of it. And um I don't know how much longer they're going to do it. I
much longer they're going to do it. I was in the UK marching with Tommy
was in the UK marching with Tommy Robinson last year. And I looked in the
Robinson last year. And I looked in the eyes of UK people on the streets and
eyes of UK people on the streets and they are so
they are so frustrated and so sad at the loss of
frustrated and so sad at the loss of their country. And Australia is
their country. And Australia is following that exact playbook. You can't
following that exact playbook. You can't tell me that 1.2 million new people into
tell me that 1.2 million new people into a country in 2 years. Set aside the
a country in 2 years. Set aside the housing crisis and housing
housing crisis and housing affordability. You can't tell me that
affordability. You can't tell me that that is not going to have a meaningful
that is not going to have a meaningful impact when most of those people are
impact when most of those people are coming from non-Christian countries. Mm.
coming from non-Christian countries. Mm. It is definitely going to have an impact
It is definitely going to have an impact on the Australian way of life.
on the Australian way of life. So,
So, a big part of your life has been
a big part of your life has been business, making money, wealth building.
business, making money, wealth building. What are you optimizing for now if
What are you optimizing for now if you're somewhat retired and Peace.
you're somewhat retired and Peace. Peace. Like honestly,
Peace. Like honestly, um everything I look at now, I look at
um everything I look at now, I look at it through the lens of
it through the lens of how much is this going to
how much is this going to mess with my peace?
mess with my peace? You know, like if I say yes to this
You know, like if I say yes to this thing, when I get up in the morning,
thing, when I get up in the morning, I said to somebody the other day, "Bali
I said to somebody the other day, "Bali is the land of smoke and mystery." And
is the land of smoke and mystery." And what I mean by that is one of my
what I mean by that is one of my favorite times of day is first thing in
favorite times of day is first thing in the morning here. Yeah. I wake up and I
the morning here. Yeah. I wake up and I go to um my favorite breakfast spot. And
go to um my favorite breakfast spot. And I try I try to go to about 6:30, 7:00 on
I try I try to go to about 6:30, 7:00 on the scooter.
the scooter. I don't own a car anymore. I have a
I don't own a car anymore. I have a little rental scooter and I drive along
little rental scooter and I drive along and the ladies around the street with
and the ladies around the street with the incense. And
the incense. And you know,
you know, the smell is beautiful. And you see them
the smell is beautiful. And you see them with that beautiful feminine way. I
with that beautiful feminine way. I don't know if you've seen them do that.
don't know if you've seen them do that. As they try to just
As they try to just uh you know, gently nudge the smoke over
uh you know, gently nudge the smoke over the um the the temple, you know. And it
the um the the temple, you know. And it smells beautiful. And this beautiful
smells beautiful. And this beautiful feminine Indonesian lady who's kneeling
feminine Indonesian lady who's kneeling down and then sweeping the street and
down and then sweeping the street and then putting the water onto the
then putting the water onto the onto the um the blessing
onto the um the blessing >> Um
>> Um And I go down. I sit there and I just
And I go down. I sit there and I just try to just
try to just take in the food that's in front of me,
take in the food that's in front of me, take in the beautiful nature that I'm
take in the beautiful nature that I'm surrounded by, and the kindness and the
surrounded by, and the kindness and the warmth of the Indonesian people.
warmth of the Indonesian people. I draw so much peace from that existence
I draw so much peace from that existence and so much joy. And sets my day.
and so much joy. And sets my day. And then I look at my inbox and I see
And then I look at my inbox and I see some
some my accountant has an inquiry or it's
my accountant has an inquiry or it's just a regular lot of activity. So,
just a regular lot of activity. So, everything I look at now is like, "How
everything I look at now is like, "How is this going to impact my peace?" Every
is this going to impact my peace?" Every Like I'm looking at potentially building
Like I'm looking at potentially building a boutique hotel here myself. How do I
a boutique hotel here myself. How do I want to do that in a way that's
want to do that in a way that's meaningful to me, that's respectful of
meaningful to me, that's respectful of the Indonesian culture, that's
the Indonesian culture, that's financially successful as well, and how
financially successful as well, and how does it need to be run so that it's
does it need to be run so that it's peaceful and attracts the right type of
peaceful and attracts the right type of audience? I don't just want to knock up
audience? I don't just want to knock up 10 villas,
10 villas, make a profit and move on. I'm just not
make a profit and move on. I'm just not there. So, everything I'm optimizing for
there. So, everything I'm optimizing for now is meaning, peace, simplicity. Um
now is meaning, peace, simplicity. Um And and that's it, you know. And and and
And and that's it, you know. And and and health as well. Um But health in a
health as well. Um But health in a holistic way. You know, I don't want to
holistic way. You know, I don't want to measure everything. I I am
measure everything. I I am I want to I want health to me now is is
I want to I want health to me now is is is a holistic concept of al being
is a holistic concept of al being present with the people that I'm
present with the people that I'm with. Um being present when I eat my
with. Um being present when I eat my food, enjoying the moments because after
food, enjoying the moments because after 30 years of entrepreneurship, I just
30 years of entrepreneurship, I just realized you go from emergency to
realized you go from emergency to problem to problem to problem and you
problem to problem to problem and you don't enjoy the time in the middle and
don't enjoy the time in the middle and you wake up. I promise you, mate, you're
you wake up. I promise you, mate, you're going to wake up and you'll be 42 and
going to wake up and you'll be 42 and it'll seem like yesterday.
it'll seem like yesterday. You know, it'll fly so fast.
You know, it'll fly so fast. So, yeah, that's a long answer to a
So, yeah, that's a long answer to a simple question. But for now, it's like
simple question. But for now, it's like I just want to optimize for joy and also
I just want to optimize for joy and also variety. Like I I you know, Bali is a
variety. Like I I you know, Bali is a wonderful place, but I won't be here all
wonderful place, but I won't be here all year. I'll spend my time in Panama, some
year. I'll spend my time in Panama, some in Cyprus, some in Europe, some here. Um
in Cyprus, some in Europe, some here. Um optionality is so important to me. I
optionality is so important to me. I literally have three suitcases right
literally have three suitcases right now. One of those is full of podcasting
now. One of those is full of podcasting gear. So, two suitcases and I think I've
gear. So, two suitcases and I think I've got too much. I don't own a car. I don't
got too much. I don't own a car. I don't own anything other than a share of the
own anything other than a share of the commercial property in Australia with my
commercial property in Australia with my business partner. And all my other
business partner. And all my other assets are digitized and I'm you know,
assets are digitized and I'm you know, the I've got some physical in property
the I've got some physical in property here like the hotels, but
here like the hotels, but Yeah, keeping it simple.
Yeah, keeping it simple. I [clears throat] love it. So, uh where
I [clears throat] love it. So, uh where where can everyone find you? Um you've
where can everyone find you? Um you've got a massive podcast as well that you
got a massive podcast as well that you dive into a lot more of uh this topic in
dive into a lot more of uh this topic in a more political sort of way as well.
a more political sort of way as well. So, where can everyone find you on
So, where can everyone find you on social media?
social media? The podcast I just put up um
The podcast I just put up um Unemployable Media, Spotify, Apple,
Unemployable Media, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, wherever you do that. And me
YouTube, wherever you do that. And me personally, Adam Hudson Official um on
personally, Adam Hudson Official um on Instagram. Uh I'm a bit inactive on
Instagram. Uh I'm a bit inactive on Instagram just the minute while I'm
Instagram just the minute while I'm resetting in 2026, thinking about
resetting in 2026, thinking about what I want to contribute to that space.
what I want to contribute to that space. So, yeah. Interesting. So,
So, yeah. Interesting. So, I got a question I always ask at the end
I got a question I always ask at the end of episodes. I already asked it to you
of episodes. I already asked it to you and I usually I will change it. Um but I
and I usually I will change it. Um but I like to ask the same question to see cuz
like to ask the same question to see cuz I think you're a completely different
I think you're a completely different person now to when we spoke. So, if you
person now to when we spoke. So, if you were to go back to your 18-year-old self
were to go back to your 18-year-old self and give him 30 seconds of advice, what
and give him 30 seconds of advice, what would that be? Hey, real quick, just
would that be? Hey, real quick, just before we wrap up this episode, Dream
before we wrap up this episode, Dream Fest is just around the corner, okay?
Fest is just around the corner, okay? And if you have not yet jumped on the
And if you have not yet jumped on the waitlist or got yourself a ticket, every
waitlist or got yourself a ticket, every single thing you need to know about it
single thing you need to know about it is in the link below. So, go ahead and
is in the link below. So, go ahead and hit that, secure your spot, check out
hit that, secure your spot, check out everything that we've got going on this
everything that we've got going on this year. You going to freaking love it.
year. You going to freaking love it. This is going to be the thing that's
This is going to be the thing that's going to take you from where you are to
going to take you from where you are to where you want to get to. So, hit the
where you want to get to. So, hit the link, check it all out. Now, let's get
link, check it all out. Now, let's get back into this interview. To my
back into this interview. To my 18-year-old self.
18-year-old self. Well, my 18-year-old self knew that he
Well, my 18-year-old self knew that he wanted to be an entrepreneur. So, I'll
wanted to be an entrepreneur. So, I'll target the advice towards an
target the advice towards an entrepreneur.
entrepreneur. Um
Um Study Alex Hormozi.
Study Alex Hormozi. Because if you want to make money and
Because if you want to make money and build businesses, which I think
build businesses, which I think is a worthy cause still. And I think
is a worthy cause still. And I think there's huge opportunity now for young
there's huge opportunity now for young people, far greater opportunity for
people, far greater opportunity for young people today than when I came up.
young people today than when I came up. Don't believe in this thing that because
Don't believe in this thing that because house prices have gone crazy, you can no
house prices have gone crazy, you can no longer get rich. You absolutely can and
longer get rich. You absolutely can and you can get way richer now than what we
you can get way richer now than what we ever could. So, study Alex Hormozi.
ever could. So, study Alex Hormozi. Um
Um be patient and logical
be patient and logical rather than optimistic. Um
rather than optimistic. Um And
And uh
uh And and play the long game, you know.
And and play the long game, you know. Don't don't try to uh force it or make
Don't don't try to uh force it or make things happen too quickly. Just be
things happen too quickly. Just be prepared to put in the work
prepared to put in the work on things you've deeply thought about.
on things you've deeply thought about. Give things time to grow and gestate and
Give things time to grow and gestate and you'll be fine, you know.
you'll be fine, you know. There's a lot more I could say, but that
There's a lot more I could say, but that would be a start.
