0:03 did oberin Martell poison Tywin
0:06 Lannister would Tywin have died anyway
0:08 even if Tyrion hadn't shot him did the
0:11 martells actually get the Vengeance they
0:14 desired on House Lannister hi everyone
0:16 this is Robert welcome to indeep geeek
0:18 on this channel we cover A Song of Ice
0:20 and Fire in nerdy detail as well as the
0:23 Lord of the Rings The Witcher and more
0:27 welcome so did Obin Martell poison Tywin
0:29 well let's start with the obvious
0:31 question of why why many people think
0:33 that Tywin had already been poisoned
0:35 when Tyrion shot him with that crossbow
0:37 because that's the idea we are working
0:39 with here Tyrion may have killed Tywin
0:41 but it didn't actually make any
0:43 difference Tywin would have died anyway
0:45 in a few days and with apologies if
0:47 you've just had your dinner our first
0:50 clue comes with where Tyrion found Tywin
0:52 he was on the privy apparently
0:54 struggling to relieve himself he had
0:57 been sat there for some time it seems at
0:59 least long enough time for Tyrion to
1:01 creep into his bed chamber talk to sheay
1:03 strangle her to death hunt for a weapon
1:06 load a crossbow then make his own way to
1:09 the privy and when tirian finally shot
1:11 Tywin we're told that tywin's bowels
1:14 opened and there was a sudden stench a
1:17 stink that filled the room fair enough
1:19 you might think human bodies can do that
1:21 when life ends but it shows that
1:23 although Tywin had been sat there a
1:25 while his bowels were still full so
1:27 there was definitely at least some kind
1:29 of constipation going on and the top
1:31 toxic smell is mentioned a couple of
1:34 times later after tywin's body had been
1:36 embalmed and placed on display in the
1:39 great sept it gets even more Grim we
1:43 read this the king's hand was rotting
1:45 visibly his face had taken on a greenish
1:48 tinge and his eyes were deeply sunken
1:51 two black pits fisures had opened in his
1:53 cheeks and a foul white fluid was
1:55 seeping through the joints of his
1:58 Splendid golden Crimson armor to pool
2:00 beneath his body the septons were the
2:02 first to see when they returned for
2:05 their Dawn devotions they sang their
2:07 songs and prayed their prayers and
2:09 wrinkled up their noses and one of the
2:12 most devout grew so faint that he had to
2:15 be helped from the sept that doesn't
2:17 sound like a normal corpse there's
2:19 something very wrong with it the septons
2:21 are professionals at dealing with dead
2:23 bodies and one of them had to be helped
2:25 from the room so great was the smell
2:28 tommen later was physically sick from it
2:30 it certainly seems as as if there was
2:33 something toxic at work on that body and
2:35 as it happens we're told a few chapters
2:37 earlier about a poison that would do
2:39 exactly what we see happen to Tywin
2:43 widows blood Grand maester pyel mentions
2:45 it during tyrion's trial for Joffrey's
2:47 murder which is completely unrelated to
2:49 this murder in case you were wondering I
2:52 did a separate video on that widows
2:55 blood this one is called he said for the
2:58 color a cruel potion it shuts down a
3:00 man's bladder and bowels until he drowns
3:01 in his own
3:05 poisons so we have a poison that shuts
3:07 down someone's bladder and bowels until
3:10 they drown in their own internal toxins
3:13 and Tywin whose bladder and bowels
3:15 clearly stopped working properly and
3:17 whose body after death seemed to be
3:20 consumed by its own toxins oh and that
3:22 bottle of widow's blood that pyel talked
3:25 about it was stolen mysteriously from
3:28 pyel stores yes the notion that Tywin
3:31 was poisoned seems pretty strong but why
3:33 blame Obin there were a lot of people
3:36 who might want Tywin dead well we should
3:38 probably start by being clear that
3:42 oberin really really wanted Tywin dead
3:44 in fact that was the reason he was there
3:47 in King's Landing in the first place to
3:49 understand why let's go back to before
3:51 all the upheaval and Devastation of
3:53 Robert's Rebellion Prince rhaegar was
3:56 married to Elia Martell oberin's sister
3:59 and they had two small children Reise
4:00 and Aon
4:02 during the sack of King's Landing at the
4:04 end of the Rebellion Elia was murdered
4:06 as were her two children and not just
4:09 killed it was brutal horrible and it was
4:13 clear who was to blame the Lannisters in
4:15 particular the mountain who we obviously
4:18 know and Sir Amory lch who we meet
4:20 briefly at Haron Hall in the books and
4:23 the order to do it came direct from
4:26 Tywin Lannister himself ellia wasn't
4:28 just a random member of House Martell
4:30 we're told that Obin and she were very
4:33 close so close that when she was killed
4:35 Obin tried to raise an army to take on
4:38 the Lannisters in retribution before
4:39 Doren managed to persuade him that that
4:42 was Folly and persuaded him to embrace a
4:45 longer term plan Vengeance wasn't set
4:48 aside just postponed and so for a decade
4:51 and more the martells held their fire
4:53 and plotted they secretly supported the
4:56 restoration of the Targaryen monarchy
4:58 because once the targaryens were back
5:01 the Lannisters would easier prey Arianne
5:04 doran's daughter was secretly betrothed
5:07 to viseris the king in Exile but then
5:10 that plan fell through viseris died
5:13 Drogo poured molten gold over his head
5:15 Doran tried to patch things up sending
5:17 quent into Meine to try to secure a
5:19 marriage to Daenerys but he could no
5:21 longer reasonably hold back oberin from
5:23 seeking Revenge particularly as the
5:26 Lannisters were now very much in control
5:28 any pretense that this was a barathan
5:31 monarchy was now now gone their
5:33 opportunity actually came quite quickly
5:36 Tyrion as acting hand of the king at the
5:38 time invited Doran to come to King's
5:40 Landing and be a part of New King
5:42 Joffrey's small Council Tyrion had his
5:44 reasons of course at the time the
5:47 barathan lanister rain was faced with
5:49 what seemed to be an existential threat
5:51 from reny barathon in Alliance with the
5:54 tyrells Tyrion knew that the laners
5:56 needed allies hence him trying to get
5:59 Doran on side Tyrion knew enough of the
6:00 history between the Martel and the
6:02 Lannisters to understand that he would
6:04 have to make the offer to come to King's
6:06 Landing a good one so as well as a seat
6:09 on the small counil he offered Marcella
6:11 Lannister's hand in marriage to tristain
6:13 Martell and crucially he offered to hand
6:15 over the men responsible for killing
6:18 Elia Martell and her children Doren
6:19 probably knew that he wasn't going to
6:22 get a better offer but instead of going
6:25 himself he sent oberin of course when
6:28 oberin actually arrived Tyrion was no
6:30 longer acting hand and his father Tywin
6:32 was back in control although he honored
6:34 tyrion's offer of a place on the small
6:36 Council he had no intention of handing
6:39 anyone over to oberin for justice he
6:41 told him that ellia and her children had
6:43 all been killed by Amory lch and he was
6:48 now dead so Justice had been served Obin
6:50 was not going to accept that though he
6:53 had three targets for Revenge amyy lch
6:55 who had indeed been killed by a bear at
6:58 Haren Hall Gregor Cain the mountain who
7:00 was at the time in the riverlands and
7:03 Tywin himself who despite the lack of
7:05 documentary evidence had almost
7:06 certainly given the order to kill Elia
7:10 and her children so one down and two to
7:13 go we should be clear that it isn't just
7:15 speculation that oberin came to King's
7:17 Landing with the specific aim of killing
7:21 Tywin Lannister he's very open about it
7:22 before he'd even made it inside the city
7:26 Gates he says this to Tyrion I did not
7:29 come for some M show of an inquiry I
7:31 came for for justice for ellia and her
7:34 children and I will have it starting
7:36 with this lumu Gregor Cain but not I
7:39 think ending there before he dies the
7:42 enormity that rides will tell me whence
7:45 came his orders please assure your lord
7:49 father of that he smiled I am a
7:52 bloodthirsty man you see and it is me
7:55 you must contend with now not my patient
7:56 prudent and gouty
8:00 brother and the threats don't stop there
8:03 your father said Prince oberin may not live
8:03 live
8:06 forever something about the way he said
8:07 it made the hairs on the back of
8:10 tyrion's neck bristle suddenly he was
8:13 mindful of elier again and all that Obin
8:15 had said as they crossed the field of
8:17 Ashes he wants the head that spoke the
8:20 words not just the hand that swung the
8:23 sword strong words and the Red Viper is
8:25 exactly the kind of person to back up
8:27 his words with actions we should be more
8:29 surprised if he hadn't tried to kill
8:31 Tywin as well as the other two people he
8:34 held responsible Amory lch and the
8:36 mountain he took a little bit of
8:38 persuading but he did eventually seem to
8:40 believe the story that amyy lch had been
8:43 killed muled by a bear at Haron Hall to
8:45 be fair it sounded like a tall story but
8:48 it was the truth his opportunity to kill
8:50 the mountain of course came when Gregor
8:52 Caine returned to King's Landing to take
8:54 part in the trial by combat to decide on
8:57 tyrion's fate oberin quickly decided to
8:59 fight for Tyrion as it gave him the
9:02 opportunity to legally kill Gregor and
9:04 despite most people's expectations he
9:06 had the best of the fight moving quickly
9:08 finding holes in the Mountain's armor
9:10 and cutting his hamstrings the mountain
9:13 was pinned to the ground and dying all
9:16 Obin had to do was walk away and he
9:19 would win but instead he went close and
9:21 tried to force Gregor to admit his guilt
9:24 for the murders of Elia and baby aegon
9:27 which he did while grabbing oberin and
9:30 killing him as a couple of asides here
9:33 Tyrion would have been free if oberin
9:34 hadn't been so obsessed with getting
9:37 that confession from the mountain Obin
9:39 may have been tyrion's Champion but he
9:42 wasn't thinking about Tyrion at all just
9:44 his own Vengeance and second it's clear
9:47 that oberin used poison to be sure of
9:49 killing the mountain Obin wasn't just a
9:52 theoretical master of poisons he used
9:55 them to kill his opponents so Obin died
9:59 in killing Gregor Cain and Amy lch died
10:02 else where but he didn't get to kill
10:05 Tywin or did he Obin would have known
10:07 that he couldn't exactly kill Tywin In
10:09 Cold Blood in King's Landing so he had
10:12 to find another way and as we've said
10:15 Obin was known to be a master of poisons
10:17 Tyrion thinks about it the very first
10:19 time he meets oberin and we are reminded
10:22 of it so many times so the motive is
10:26 there that's undeniable the means also
10:28 he studied potions at the Citadel and
10:30 there was that vial of widow's tears
10:32 that went missing and finally he had the
10:35 opportunity we're told of a private
10:37 meeting between oberin Tywin and Mace
10:40 Tyrell that fits the timeline we don't
10:43 see it but could oberin have had the
10:44 opportunity to slip something into
10:46 tywin's drink then on any of the other
10:49 multiple times Obin is sitting literally
10:53 next to Tywin definitely so Obin wanted
10:55 to kill Tywin he had the skill and
10:57 knowledge to do it the poison he needed
10:59 was at hand he had the opportunity to do
11:01 it and all the evidence suggests that
11:05 Tywin was indeed poisoned which makes it
11:07 feel like an open and shut case and I
11:09 think that is what happened but just to
11:11 address a challenge we noted earlier in
11:14 the video lots of people wanted Tywin
11:18 dead why don't we suspect them well we
11:20 should probably just clarify who these
11:22 lots of people are I think it's fair to
11:24 say that although team Stark and team
11:26 Stannis may have wanted Tywin out of the
11:29 way neither would have stooped to poison
11:31 him and we don't get any evidence from
11:33 either of their camps that such an order
11:35 was even considered similarly we have
11:39 multiple POV chapters from Cersei Tyrion
11:41 and others with not even a hint that
11:44 they knew about it so it's not them
11:46 either although and this may be
11:48 absolutely nothing but I do wonder
11:51 whether Tyrion suspected that Tywin was
11:53 being poisoned by oberin he knew how
11:56 much Obin wanted Tywin dead would have
11:58 noted that widow's blood had been stolen
12:00 and crucially went to the privy with a
12:03 loaded crossbow because he knew that's
12:05 where his father would be Shay hadn't
12:09 said where Tywin was tyrian just knew if
12:12 so tyrion's murder of his father takes a
12:14 different turn yes he killed his father
12:16 but was it a mercy killing that allowed
12:20 Tyrion to vent his anger it's possible
12:22 anyway most other theories on who might
12:24 have been poisoning tywin's Center on
12:27 Varys and it's undeniable that it was in
12:29 varys's best interests for Tywin to die
12:31 please check out my varis videos if
12:33 you're not sure on that point and Varys
12:35 does have a track record of killing or
12:37 removing competent Lannisters and others
12:40 from their posts like Kevin in the
12:41 epilogue to A Dance with Dragons for
12:44 instance but if we credit Varys with
12:46 even a fraction of the intelligence and
12:48 intelligence gathering expertise that he
12:51 has he will know that Obin wanted to
12:54 kill Tywin so he doesn't have to at the
12:57 last even Tyrion acknowledges that varis
13:00 must have heard oberin's threat to Tywin
13:03 several times in fact if Varys had his
13:05 little birds listening oberin was giving
13:09 them a ripe aall Tyrion thought and then
13:11 he wants the head that spoke the words
13:14 not just the hand that swung the sword
13:17 it is not wise to speak such treasons in
13:19 the red keep my prince said Tyrion the
13:21 little birds are
13:25 listening let them so if varis wanted
13:27 Tywin dead why would he bother to get in
13:29 the way of oberin who wanted to do it
13:31 anyway that way the dornish would get
13:34 the blame not him and if Varys was
13:36 poisoning Tywin why bother giving Tyrion
13:39 such clear instructions on how to get to
13:42 tywin's Chambers because he did 230
13:45 rungs up the tunnel to the left no more
13:47 than 60 ft keep one hand on the wall as
13:49 you go you will feel the doors the bed
13:52 chamber is the third those are quotes
13:55 varis basically told Tyrion how to go
13:58 and kill his own father and cut all ties
14:01 to the Seven Kingdoms no there's no
14:03 reason to believe that Varys poisoned
14:06 Tywin he didn't have to oberin had
14:09 already done that so although we might
14:11 think of obin's Revenge mission to
14:13 King's Landing as a glorious failure he
14:16 actually achieved all he set out to do
14:19 Amory lch was already dead he killed
14:22 Gregor Cain even making him admit to his
14:24 guilt in elia's death and he killed
14:27 Tywin too Tyrion shooting him was
14:29 probably a mercy actually though no one
14:33 would ever know it yes oberin died but
14:34 he gave his life doing what he had
14:37 wanted to do for nearly two decades get
14:40 Vengeance on the
14:42 Lannisters if you'd like to see more
14:44 videos about the world of Ice and Fire
14:45 there's a link to my playlist on the
14:47 left of your screen now or to support
14:49 this channel thank you there's a link to
14:51 my patreon page on the right of your
14:53 screen thanks for watching that's all
