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"The Preaching Playbook: Sermon Development Strategies" with Rev. Janiece Williams (Season 2 •Ep. 3)

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This content is an in-depth interview with Reverend Janice Williams, a homiletics scholar and founder of Deep Launch Solutions, discussing her journey into ministry and her expertise in sermon development. She emphasizes the spiritual and intellectual rigor required for effective preaching, focusing on deep engagement with biblical texts and understanding the congregational context.

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now the real with Ross [Music]

[Music]

now the real cross now real Welcome to

the Real with Ross today we are sitting

down with Reverend Janice Williams she

is the uh homti scholar uh she is

definitely one in the field that is

trailblazing and working her way around

the country training and teaching

preachers how to preach she is the

founder of deep launch Solutions she has

the sermon development workbook and

today we get a chance to sit down and

talk with Reverend Janice about

preaching so we're so glad to have her

with us today welcome thank you I'm

great happy to be here thank you and uh

Janice preached for us yesterday and

totally demolished and when I say

demolished I mean demolished in every

sense of the word so I uh begged her to

come and talk to us today about sermon

development so that's kind of what we're

going to do um let's just start talking

about your journey so how did you get

started in Ministry ah great journey so

so I um always like to tell this story

by starting with uh the elephant in the

room which for me is I wasn't raised in

the church okay in the traditional way

that we understand that so typically

when we talk about you know being raised

in the church we mean you know us in

church Sunday and every day during the

week and all that kind of stuff that's

not my story we um would go to church

when you know either I would spend a

night over one of my aunt's house or um

my aunts who were here yesterday so we

either when we would go over there or um

Easter and so um I'm not really sure how

the Lord worked it out but um growing up

although I wasn't raised in the church

in that traditional sense my mom would

tell you that when I was 3 years old

when all the other kids were outside

playing I'd be sitting on the couch

trying to read the Bible so it was in me

from a child although I don't know where

um I don't recall any kind of like

images in my head for where I got that

from to the extent that you know growing

up as a kid I would uh play church with

my siblings so I'm the fifth of six kids

okay and so um I would make them sit

there and listen to me preach and all

that kind of stuff which is so crazy to

me cuz I'm like you know I we weren't

going to church like that so I don't

know where I got that image from but it

was always in me from a child and so by

the time I became a teenager um it

really started with me going to church

starting that journey of going to church

which really began one day I was it was

a Sunday and this is back when bet would

play sermons on TV so everybody else is

at church me you know we at the house

chilling and so I'm uh watching BET and

um there was a sermon that played and uh

I don't I couldn't tell you what the

sermon was about but I do remember it

had touched me so much that I was like I

want to go to church so I called my aunt

my auntie Loren who was with us

yesterday and I told her I wanted to go

to church and so she called to have the

church van start to come pick us up okay

and uh and by us I mean I dragged my

little with me everywhere so uh we

started going to church and as we were

going to church um it was I would get

involved in like as much stuff as I can

get involved in so I joined the choir I

um joined the Prayer Ministry and you

know the more I began to serve the more

I began to really kind of come alive and

so I've been an introvert and been shy

my whole life and so starting to serve

in a church and be welcomed in that

space really um

was the time when I really found my

place it was the first time I really

kind of felt like this is where I belong

and so I just kind of you know ran into

it and so you know I became really

disciplined in my spiritual life um I

was reading my Bible every day I would

ditch my family to go upstairs now

you're talking about a house with eight

at minimum eight people in it at any

given moment um I would ditch my family

at let's say 9:00 and I would go

upstairs so I could spend that last hour

with the Lord like I was I was serious

I'm a teenager okay I was so serious

about this thing and so I go upstairs

and spend time with the Lord reading and

praying and all that stuff and then one

day um there was a Revival um happening

in the city at my aunt's Church the

Pentecostal Church of Christ um I'm from

Cleveland Ohio and so uh Bishop Ellis's

church and this is where um on my mom's

side of the fames where my aunts and my

cousins went and so um there was a a

preacher in town and they were Revival

that week I had been fasting and so that

fast you know I was no social media none

of that kind of stuff and so whenever I

would want to get on social media I'll

go read and pray instead so this

particular day is the end of my fast and

the Lord had been speaking to me all

week and um this particular time I

wanted to get on Facebook so instead I

went and open up my Bible and I said

Lord speak to me and I now me and my

theological training now would be

skeptical of this kind of

experience looking back you're like okay

I don't know yeah but the Lord used it

right nonetheless and so I uh it was one

of those like Lord speak and wherever I

open up this Bible that's what we going

to read so I open it up and it landed on

Isaiah 611 Spirit of the Lord God is

upon me because the Lord is know to me

to preaching to the meek sent me the

bind of the broken hearted to Proclaim

Liberty to the captives and the opening

of the prison to them that are bound and

I was

like uh and you closed the book I did

like Jesus like literally like are you

trying to tell me I'm called to preach

so I opened it back up and like kept on

reading was like Lord if you calling me

to preach please confirm it in Revival

tonight so I go to church that night and

uh we sitting you know Incognito in the

back you

know and the preacher goes and again me

my theological education now would be

skeptical of it but you know then the

preacher goes I don't know who this is

for but the Lord said the answer to your

question is yes wow and it was like a

sense of of affirmation on the inside of

me my body got hot like I just knew that

the Lord was talking to me in this

moment and I was like my God today I

couldn't even tell you what happened to

the rest of that service but I just

remember that I just was I felt this

sense of Confirmation and so it you know

the interesting thing is that you know

my the only church I've ever known is a

Baptist Church Temple Baptist Church in

Cleveland Ohio and um Pastor Cedric

Ville has is the only Pastor I ever knew

growing up in Cleveland and so um we had

never had women preachers okay so I

didn't even know if my Pastor believed

in women preachers so now I got this

call this sense of call from God but I'm

like I don't even know if my pastor

believes in women preachers now I had

never seen women be outright told you

couldn't preach I just had never really

seen them in my church context I knew

one um in the Baptist world I knew one

preacher um but I had never seen her

preach I had never I just knew that she

was was an evangelist a minister and so

I text my pastor who's also my godfather

I text him I said Do You Believe In

women preachers and immediately he was

like yeah I believe they can bring forth

the word and you know so I was like okay

bet I never expounded I probably planted

the seed at that moment but I never

expounded on what was going on and how

were how old were you at this point ooh

probably 17 years old yeah probably 17

um yeah I was 17 so so then I probably

planted the seat at that moment um

because he and I hadn't talk didn't talk

anymore about it didn't elaborate but I

had told my little sister and my little

cousin um cuz we you know we were

running thick as thieves you know at

that point and so both of them you know

knew that I was getting ready to go tell

him like Hey I think the Lord might be

calling me to preach and um so we go up

one Sunday as we normally do we went up

to his office every Sunday to say hate

our Godfather and so we went up there

one Sunday and I said God Daddy I need

to talk to I probably scared the mess

out of I talk to you and um so he

cleared the room and it's just he and I

and I

got I think I think God is calling me to

preach and he was like all right let's

talk about it like it was like

immediately like this acceptance and

this affirmation and I started my my

ministers and training journey I mean I

have been serving Faithfully at my

church every week like I once I started

going to church I was there them doors

was open Williams was there

okay I was there so like I I'm I'm sure

in a way I had demonstrated evidence

right MH but now was the time to profess

the calling and my pastor was

immediately embracing of it and

affirming of it and that's really really

how it got started okay and so from

there you went to do undergrad work okay

so I'm going to take a sharp

turn where did

your love for the development of sermons

and preaching start okay great question

I I would say that my love for preaching

started really during around the same

time so when I started going to church I

just would go on YouTube and just listen

to a bunch of preaching now mind you my

pastor was giving it to us every week

right like Cedric V right like he was he

was giving it to us every week right and

so I I love I learned to love preaching

listening to him preach I learned to

love preaching going on YouTube and

looking up different preachers I would

listen to you know Pastor E Dy Smith I

would listen to um Wanita bam I would

listen to I was listening to Marissa

pharaoh and I mean just so many just

different voices Reggie Sharp like I was

I anybody that I could find on YouTube I

was listening to them and I was and at

the time it wasn't I wasn't looking at

it for you know the what the mechanics

of preaching I just was enjoying

receiving a word and I just knew that

there was something in this thing called

preaching that was enlivening me it

there was something in it that would

change me and I mean I'm listening and

I'm taking notes every time around um so

that's really where the love of

preaching started where the love of

sermon development started you know it's

interesting because so first first I

think you know that you know starts

again with being trained by Pastor Ville

cuz when we started our ministers and training

training

um our preaching classes he would meet

with us for an hour on Sundays before we

before worship and so he would meet with

all the ministers and you know we would

talk and he would teach us what you know

our very first lesson was the difference

between ex Jesus and is Jesus like you

know and uh I remember him telling us

you know you'll never preach ex isog

Jesus sermon at Temple Baptist

Church in the back of my head from the

very beginning so it was like bet say no

more due diligence like immediately um

and then also getting his feedback on

sermons like you know we would we would

have to submit our sermons and he would

that red ink you know so you know I I

remember recently I did a some work with

some ministers and training and they

were you know frustrated about the red

ink that they Pastor I was like man like

that's normal like red ink is what makes

you better what it's what makes you

better uh that red for the blood

doc but um so I mean I think that was

really the beginning but when my love

for sermon development probably really

started to cryst Iz for real when when I

got to Seminary because in undergrad I

didn't know that you could pursue

preaching the way that I'm doing it now

so I was you know in I was I knew that I

was going to get at that point I knew I

was going to go get pursue doctoral work

and um I thought I was either going to

be a theologian or um I was going to be

a Bible scholar okay and um because I

had never um taken a Ministry class

before so my undergrad uh degree is in

biblical and Theological studies and at

my at my school n College um there were

two sides of our ministry department so

there was the ministry majors and that

was your pastoral men youth ministry

those kinds of U degrees and then on my

side of it was the biblical and

Theological studies majors and on this

side they were training Scholars they

were training folks who one day who they

believe one day would go into the

academy and so we didn't take any unless

we took an elective of our own valtion

we would would weren't taking any

practical Ministry classes so I had

never taken a preaching class in under

wow it was when I got to Seminary that I

took my first preaching class and was

like you can get a PhD and preaching

like what like it like what um it was

then that I really started to learn the mechanics

mechanics

of preaching in terms of exeresis and

hermeneutics and you know just really

kind of being exposed

to you know even congregational exeresis

and things that like you know I don't

know that I had the language for or even

a curiosity about um early on and so I

think the more that I learned about

preaching as time went on the more that

you know I became interested in how do

we actually get there um and that just

kept on building and building and

building and when I started my um my

doctoral program is really when things

amped up when I could actually put

language to which part of the process it

gives me the most energy and and all of

it gives me energy but the the part of

the process that leads up to the sermon

that for me just o like it just cuz it

is the it is the creative part it is it

is the it is the uh process of

invention um and I've always been a

creative I've always been an artist um

growing up and so I think you know just

as I continue to develop my knowledge of

preaching and the mechanics of preaching

I think that's where it really kind of

you know everything kind of came

together in terms of which part of the

process for me became you know the most

energizing okay so I'm going to ask you

from the other side of the space the

other side of the room of the seat about

preaching and I want you to share your

wealth of knowledge and

information for some people who have trouble

trouble

developing sermons

where the process of putting a sermon together

together is

is um

difficult how do you instruct them to

begin in the process M um I think the

the most important part that I think we

all know but just always should be said

is with prayer like you know the B the

Endeavor to to develop a sermon is first

and foremost a spiritual Endeavor and I

think that that needs to be first and

foremost above anything else after that

I think you know spending time reading

the Bible just like that's not going to

fail you and I think really what why a

part of the reason why people struggle

is because well first of all the

Endeavor to develop a sermon is going to

be struggle if you're not struggling

with you ain't doing it right right you

should be wrestling you know with it um

but I think a part of reason why people

struggle to the to that extent is

because they start the process

attempting to write a sermon instead of

starting the process attempting to get

to know this text right like we we jump

we skip the exegetical process and go

straight to what does it mean for me or

what does it mean for my listeners as

opposed to getting to know the text at

hand additionally I think that um the

piece that really gets people is coming

to the text with with our forn knowledge

of the

text and with our for knowledge of our

Christian traditions and with the for

knowledge of you know you know all the

things that we've been taught as

Believers and our formation all that

kind of stuff and I think that that is a

gift but I also think that it can be a

hindrance in terms of the sermon

development process because when we come

to the text believing that we already

know the background of the text it gets

in the way of our ability to discern

something new to explore something new

you know when I when I when I teach this

I teach about this I usually tell folks

you know I I've never been married

before but I'm told that you got to keep

dating your your partner you know as

even as y'all are married right um

because as life happens people change

right and so there's this constant need

to continue to get to know the other

well I think the same is true of the way

that we engage the biblical text is that

you know as you continue to change and

as the world continues to change you

know there you become different and so

you need to continue to get to know this

text from a different lens because life

experience will help you to see things

and you wouldn't have seen before you

know in times past and so I think

suspending your forn knowledge which is

really hard to do it's it's it's

difficult to divorce yourself from who

you are and what you know yeah right but

you have you really have to force

yourself to I mean even if that means

you got sticky notes on the side and

just write down whatever intrusive

thought it is that's coming to mind and

put it to the side so that you really

can get to know that text at hand and to

spend a lot of time doing it like I mean

spend some time just writing down the

obvious the obvious things in the text

you know Jesus

walked yes like it feels so well du but

like you never know what kind of

Revelations might come out of just

stating the obvious in the text um and

suspending the need to interpret

immediately right good in good um

Revelation only comes from good

investigation and so you know we we

really have to spend time investigating

that text before we ever try to turn it

into a sermon

um and it's a lot of work and it's a lot

of hard work and I think that as we you

know develop the discipline of getting

to know the text I think um we realize

how how many sermons actually might be

present in that one passage of scripture

but it really starts with I think just

read the Bible just get to know the text

on its terms and not yours and not your

incessant need to interpret and your

incessant need to um apply it to your

life or the life of whoever's may or may

not be listening to you MH what do you think

think

are the most common mistakes of

preachers in the sermon develop velopment

velopment

process that what I was just uh talking

about in terms of not suspending our our

forn knowledge of a text um I think that

is that is a common mistake um

because it feels like a shortcut when

you just you know you come to the text

knowing a thing about it um but what it

really is is a hindrance to your ability

to see something new um that that for

sure for me is a is a common mistake I

think also

um yeah I really don't think people read

the Bible like just I've been thinking

about that a lot recently read the Bible

people don't people not reading the

Bible you know and um and and I don't

even mean devotionally we do it

devotionally right we I mean for

yeah you know in theory we do it

devotionally right down to you know

you're getting you know your Verse of

the Day from the Bible app on your phone

so you know to a certain extent we do a

devotionally but man just really kind of

sitting there just reading I am

astounded at our unwillingness to to

read the

Bible Pastor Ville would say don't be a

casual Bible reader you know and I and I

just think that we've gotten casual you

know and and too many preachers are

casual in their engagement with the

Bible so I think that's one thing I

think another thing is jumping

immediately to the sermon before

figuring out where your destination is I

am so big on on figure out what your

thesis is like it to the point where

like my friends my friends like when

they'll call me and they're work you

know they want to bounce some ideas off

of me they know they already know the

first question I'm going to ask to the

point where if they don't already have

it they're going to tell me up front I

don't have a thesis yet okay right cuz

I'm going to ask like what's your thesis

I can't help you process without knowing

where you're trying to go right which

isn't you know altogether true um cuz I

can help you figure out what what it is

you're trying to say but like that

thesis really becomes the

that filters the rest of the content in

the sermon if you let it right um and

then we're not we're also you know we

also have to learn how to um craft a

strong thesis statement because a

paragraph isn't a thesis statement right

it's helping you get there right so

don't throw the paragraph away but the

the paragraph itself isn't the thesis

and I think we have to figure out um and

really kind of workshop and spend more

time figuring out what that final

destination is cuz that's how we end up

preaching multiple sermons right we

don't have a strong thesis and then when

you don't have a strong thesis you can't

figure out in your movements how those

movements are connected to that thesis

CU you don't have one but usually what I

what I'll tell my students is you know

once you develop that that thesis

statement and you start thinking through

whatever your movements are your

question to yourself should be what is

the thesis of this movement and how was

it connected to that ultimate claim of

the sermon right and I think once you

begin to do that that kind of forces you

into one idea for the sermon um without

it this is how we get into I got three

different sermons in this in this one

you know Proclamation because you

haven't sat down to figure out you know

how are what are these movements

attempting to argue and then how are

they connected to this main argument

that I'm trying to make in the sermon so

somebody's going to say who's who maybe

listening okay so Janice how long should

my thesis be ooh honey what I what I

what I'll say is it's not necessarily

about length now if you have

to if you have to explain it it's too

long so a a a thesis should be specific

it should be direct and it should be

clear so by specific means that it

shouldn't be so you know long that it

requires further explanation it should

be direct in a sense that like it say

what you trying to say

don't go corner and I got another thing

say about that the mistakes that we

make don't have to jump through hoops

you know just say say what it is you

trying I said what I said say what

you're trying to say and be clear don't

be so fanciful in your language that

like people can't understand you at the

end of the day like you want people to

be able to understand what it is you're

trying to say so I would say th those

would be the three things that you need

to be thinking about in terms of writing

a a thesis statement and um there are

people who do it really really well and

if you listen to um some of your

favorite preachers like there there are

folks who who who are going to give you

their thesis statement in their sermon

and they vary in length but as long as

they are those three things specific

direct and clear you cooking with grease

right the other thing I was going to say

in terms of the other mistake is this I

don't know what it is par this is

particular to Black preaching okay this

need to be so Artful in our language

that we miss the mark of clarity like I

I never sacrific Clarity on the altar of

Artful language that's good because I

think that you know in our tradition of

African-American preaching you know we

have historically our our forerunners

have historically used Artful language

to paint the picture for their listeners

um and now when we attempt to do it you

know it is it's almost forced in a way

right and it's almost done in a way and

this isn't true for everybody but for

some folks you know it's almost done in

a way that it it clouds what it is the

preacher is actually trying to say like

how do you say this in plain language

like how is somebody who is uneducated

going to understand what you're trying

to say somebody who's dropped out of

school hasn't picked up a book in years

or maybe they have picked up a book but

like this is this language is is above

them like how are they going to

understand it because at the end of the

day it's cute that you sound good but

you miss the Mark if people can't

understand what you're trying to say um

and this is important because like when

we think about the way that we use

language our forerunners had to use

Artful language historically because the

way that we processed information was

different right so we're talking about

pre you know social media like when

people actually read books mhm you know

there before TV even right like they had

to use Artful language because there

were there was no onetoone correlation

to an image for people in their minds

now our attention spans are a lot

shorter than that because because TV and

social media has shortened our ability

or limited our ability to process

information um or to have our attentions

held for a longer period of time so we

don't have the amount of time we don't

have the attention span that our our

elders and ancestors had um and we don't

have the need to be

as creative in the way that we use

language now does that mean throw it out

the window absolutely not be poetic be

be Artful like continue to um Carry

forth those traditions of our heritage

but also understand the why behind why

our ancestors and Elders had to use that

kind of language and figure out what it

means to do that in today's world in today's

today's

culture because it's not the same thing

and you'll end up you know in an attempt

to pretend to be something that you're

not or to pretend to do something that's

not true for who you are or true for who

your community of listeners are you'll

end up missing the opportunity to bless

somebody because you're trying to prove

a point about your ability to you know

be Artful in your language never

sacrifice Clarity on the altar of art

for language that's good you know

sometimes in this world of streaming as

I'm preaching and even trying to develop

my preaching more I have to remind

myself Drew Don't Preach to the

preachers you may think are going to

tune in at some point during the week

yeah that you miss your assignment to

preach to your congregation who gathers

every week yeah yeah because if they

don't get

it then it means more that they didn't

get it than the reality that

somebody may or may not watch me this

week that's shopping around to see how

Drew is preaching now yeah you know and

sometimes we're pushing for that

audience and sometimes none of those

people are tuning in right they ain't

even watching us as much as we might

think that they are now certain people

are being watched on a weekly basis

right um but they're naturally just

doing what they've been doing forever

but I think that you're right the the

challenge of trying to be something that

the person is not

for the sake of trying to build something

something um

so in the sermon development

process how do you move through the

different stages of

development so I I describe it as three

eyes of exeresis so you've got um

investigation inspiration information an

investigative phase is when you are

investigating the biblical text your uh

preaching context and the social wider

social World um in the in this

particular phase is not the time to you

know find the deeper meaning of the text

it's just an opportunity for you to get

it in View and figure out what's here um

it's just looking at the text it's just

getting familiar with the text it's just

um writing down or how I I I usually

describe it as noting what you notice in

the text what's there before you um and

just writing all those things down the

who what when where wise house um the

you know doing a sensory exploration of

the text I wonder what it smelled like I

wonder uh what it felt like I wonder

what it sounded like you know just doing

those basic things um noting repetitions

in the text and um things of that nature

so that that's really the you know in

terms of the biblical investigative

phase and then you got your

congregational um investigation and

which for those who are pastoring is a

lot easier to do because you spend more

time with your congregation and so you

get to figure out who's in the room

right you know what are the age

demographics what are the um industries

that most of my members are you know a

part of what um what are the education

levels you know those kind of things um

who's what are the stories that are

present here um for those of us who are

primarily itinerate preaching um and for

pastors who also

itinerate um that also includes then

going to the church website that you're

going to preach at and learning a little

bit about the the church's history

learning about you know what kinds of

you know programming is important to

them is this a church that prioritizes

worship over service or is it a church

that is really involved in the community

um because it gives you a sense of who

that Community is um doing the work of

going and listening to a to a worship

service listening to you know alter call

prayer what are the needs that are being

expressed in this prayer uh cuz that

kind of gives you some information about

what needed in the in the congregation

um listening to how the preacher the

pastor there preaches because it gives

you a sense of what their listening diet

is um and just things of that nature um

even man if the the gift of social media

is that as you're watching um the the

the service you can see how people are

engaging in the comments cuz what might

emerge from even the comments are you

know rhetorical culture right so how do

what what are some things that are Ty

IAL for for them to say so for example

my my home church now in Nashville I go

to Watson Grove Baptist Church and so we

use the language of Partners as opposed

to members means the same thing but we

use the language of Partners well if

you're not from our community you may

not know that Partners we're we're in

the comments talking about partner

partner partner you don't know what that

means you know but that gives you an

opportunity to kind of discern okay they

use the language of partnership here how

does that what does that say about who

they are and how do how might I engage

that in the sermon so that's

investigation and then um in terms of

the congregational when you get to a

social you need to be watching the news

you need to be you know and I know it's

depressing and and at this juncture I

would say news what I'll say about

watching the news be aware of what's

going on in the world be aware of what's

going on in community because we know

that you know sens censorship and you

know those things are absolutely

happening right now and so finding other

news outlets that actually are reporting

the truth about what's going on and um

to look at you know that commun that

local community's happenings um go and

look at the local newspapers or wherever

it is you're preaching um go in um

datausa.io um will give you some data

about the city that you're going to

preach in um so those are just some all

of that's investigation so before we

even started trying to figure out you

know what the word is word of God for

the people of God thanks be God is you

you're literally just gathering

information about the text about the

community and about you know the social

conditions right and you're just writing

all of that down and then after that you

are going to then reflect on all of that

stuff you're going to meditate on all

that stuff you're going to try start

praying and say Lord what are you trying

to say what's coming up for me here this

is the inspiration phase this is where

you know you are Discerning the word of

God uh for for this particular moment of

proclamation um and and that really is

all it is is just writing down what's

coming up for you um and then you move

on to the um information phase which is

putting all of this stuff you know all

of these phases require in between them

this moment of reflection on the

previous phase as you're engaging the

current one so once you get done with in

investigation as you're doing

inspiration you're going back to read

those investigative notes as you're

doing information you're going back to

read the previous investigative and

inspiration so that you could put that

stuff in conversation with the the

scholars that you're reading you know

what what what what commentary are you

in conversation with what um there are

there are some you know online web

websites working preacher um where there

are Scholars who are providing re free

resources you know they're writing blogs

and stuff about um about the Bible and

about faith and stuff and so that's you

know good resource um you know reading

multiple Scholars from multiple ethnic

backgrounds not just reading you know

white Scholars and you know um and then

not just reading Matthew Henry I'm sorry

but like and and it's not to I have

always say this it's not to say don't

read Matthew Henry I'm saying don't just

read right like um there are Scholars

who spend their entire lives dedicated

to one book of the Bible there's no way

Matthew Henry a book that covers all 66

is going to be able to scratch the

surface of you know biblical commentary

so my invitation for those my invitation

for those who read Matthew Harry is

don't just read Matthew hry go find some

some multivolume books my invitation is

don't read Matthew hry listen I can't I

can't tell the same St because I get why

right accessibility right commentaries

are expensive right so like if that's

all you got that's all you got if that's

all you got some of our Christmas wish

lists need to start expanding to include

resources that we want to help us become

better preachers you need to ask for a

commentary set and if it ain't the whole

set just give me Genesis and I'll build

from Genesis to okay you know just build

up um and there are are online resources

right you can go to the public library

or if you live in a city that has a

seminary nearby see if a lot of the

seminaries offer resources to local

clergy so just go find out you know um

but they need to have time to be there

cuz those commentaries they don't let

you check those those things out that's

right those are reference resources okay

they Tak out here you are not you know

but there are just so many different

ways to access resources and stuff and

so I

mean that's the in in information phase

where you're you're putting all that

stuff in conversation with Scholars all

of that is just you know before you get

to where to sermon at all of that is the

pre-work to where the sermon at right um

because the sermon is somewhere in all

of that it's it's somewhere you know

germinating within all of that work that

you just did something's coming up for

you some ideas some some some concept um

Dr William Curtis would say uh at this

point you would go and then brood over

the text what what is what's coming up

for you like what is that one thing like

just spending some time hovering over it

and just kind of discerning what's

coming up for you there and after that

like those are just the investig those

are just the um exegetical hermeneutical

process yeah so somebody's going to ask

some working preacher right is going to

say how long does all of that take as

long as it takes is what I'm it takes as

long as it

takes but if you were to

give a particular amount of hours right

for a person that's not doing it week to

week or

consistently how long do you think they

should block out during the course of

you know it's going to take a couple of

weeks or so for somebody's probably not

preaching every week how long do you

think that they should should say I need

to spend a minimum of this amount of

hours so that that's hard for me to

answer because some of us are latent

processors so so for some of us and I'm

a latent processor it takes me time to

figure out what it is I'm trying to say

it takes me a longer time to figure out

than some than other folks um and so I

want to be like don't spend any less

than 10 hours right a week um and and if

you just need a number don't spend any

less than 10 hours

but that's just scratching the surface

right and and if we're talking about

folks who don't do this week to week um

you got time then like you just really

got time now there are there are

occasions when you know we get the last

minute call you know but you you should

be ready you know what I'm saying like

you should you should if you don't if

you're not doing this every week you got

time to be coming up and and practicing

how to develop a sermon right you should

be writing sermons whether you have an

assignment or not right like that's

that's you only learn how to preach by

preaching you only learn how to write a

sermon by writing sermons you have to

exercise that muscle and so I I want to

be able to say this amount of hours I

mean if I have to put a number on it

don't spend any less than 10 hours but

for real for real it takes time it takes

a lot of time to do that kind of work

you're doing research and not just any

kind of research you're doing holy

research you're doing spiritual research

you're you're not just researching with

books you researching with the Holy

Spirit and so there are there are some

things that just going to take some time

you know what takes me the longest what

my developing my thesis statement okay

after I've done all of that like them

three phases when I get to start trying

to figure out what my thesis statement

is that takes me the longest amount of

time cuz now I'm trying to figure out

how do I encapsulate this idea that's

coming up for me in a

sentence that takes me the longest

amount of time so if that's taking I

remember one time I just couldn't nail

it down I just could not nail it down

I'm texting friends like man this is

what I'm trying to say and it ain't

making sense to me as I'm explaining it

but like I know it like in the back of

my like head or maybe in my heart like I

know what it is I'm trying to get at but

I just can't nail it down and it I spent

all day I'm at my computer all day I'm

walking around my office all day I'm

walking around my house taking a walk

around the complex like and just could

not nail it down till my friend was like

like maybe you should just sleep on it

so I went to sleep and I woke up the

next morning and I sat down and then it

came to me but this is after I spent 12

hours the day before and I'm not even

exaggerating I literally couldn't figure

it out because for me I can't write the

rest of the sermon until I know where

I'm going so I literally I I just can't

like I cannot get past what my thesis

statement is and so if that took me 12

hours that's we didn't already got past

the you know the already the 10 right

and you haven't even started putting

anything down on paper yet no so I

that's hard to say I I will say it might

take you 10 to get through the three

eyes of EX Jesus but once you start

trying to get to thesis objective so

what like all the things that you know

give you the structure of your sermon

that could easily add another 10 I mean

minimum I so it's particular to the

person but if you oh man I don't even

want to say 10 I I want to say like 20

but I you know if if you not pastoring

every week 20 cuz you know you got more

than just that week to to prepare so um

yeah I don't know if I answer that well

no I think that's good all right so

let's talk about

um crafting M now I don't want to say

how should a preacher craft I'm going to

say how do you m how do you take the

substance content

of your three

eyes and build it into the finished work

and product of what someone would see if

they heard you preach so I so you

mentioned earlier about my workbook I

use my workbook to write every sermon

that I'm writing and so in in it once

I've gotten past the three phases of EX

aesus then it's asking me to write you

know my thesis my objective my so what

statement once I I've written those it's

asking me now what are your movements

and so I'm figuring out this is what you

know movement one is the next part it's

asking me is how is this connected to

your thesis statement cuz right now even

in the the planning process I am seeking

I'm chasing after Clarity and so for me

and and Clarity is of utmost importance

for me like I just I want to be clear I

want to I want to words matter to me so

in the entire process that the workbook

is actually designed to force you into

Clarity to force you into making a

decision but if you do it right if you

follow all the steps that it's asking

you to follow um then it's you're you're

entering into to a space of clarity

hopefully and so I'm writing down what

my movement is I'm writing down I'm

figuring out how was this connected to

my thesis statement so I've done that

for all the movements that I'm going to

do then the next part of it is okay what

illustrations and or stories are you

going to use and so I'm actually in the

planning process figuring out all right

what stories and stuff am I going to use

what's the main claim of these stories

that I'm trying to draw out and it's

also asking how is this connected to

your your thesis right cuz you know

nothing's worse than an irrelevant story

so all of these things are pre-planned

before I ever get to my manuscript and

so but once I once I have all of that

figured out you know I literally have

everything that I need to write my

manuscript um and then you know I am a

traditional 3 you know preacher like

that for me is what's comfortable um and

so I I really just I have all the things

that I need so I know what my

introductory story is um I have a pretty

like um standard format in terms of how

I'm going to um work out the

organization of my sermon so I'm likely

most most times going to give you some

kind of story or illustration at the

very beginning then I'm going to you

know use that to introduce us to our text

text

there's some idea or some kind of

concept that in this story that is

illuminated in this text or that this

text illuminates for us so I use that to

enter into the text once I'm entering

into the text now I'm starting to help

us to arrive at whatever that claim is

that I'm trying to make I'm going to

make my claim I'm going to give you some

so in other words this is what this

means then I'm going to give you um then

I'm going to give you a so how do we how

do we do this like how do we get at

whatever this thesis statement is that

how question is really kind of getting

at um my objectives like or my so what

statement how how is it that we get at

this thesis statement and and then we

enter into my three movements

um some I last year I did a lot of work

on um storytelling I was trying to

become a better Storyteller and so all

of my movements would have stories in

them or some kind of yeah most of them

actually I don't think yep stories I was

gonna say some of them were just like

examples I use examples I use stories um

to illuminate um whatever the idea is

but I'm going to give you the the thesis

of the movement um and then I'm going to

and all my movements have thesis like I

think people should do that you don't

have to actually say the thesis in your

sermons I do but I'm going give you my

thesis in my sermon and then I'm going

explain argue it in the text give you a

story and ride to the next one so and

and that's pretty standard my conclusion

which is for me the hardest part

um and an introduction so my intro and

my conclusion are the hardest parts for

me like that's the the parts I struggle

with the most um but again I um last

maybe about two years ago is where I

really kind of found what myo closing

rhythm is and so um I I will tell a

story to help me close but also that's

really a strategy to keep me on keep me

at a good Pace um because I have a

tendency to talk fast and so especially

in my preaching so the story is intended

to slow me down but also to help me not

because when I'm so excited like I will

I will close up here and then I'll have

no voice and especially if I got to do

it multiple times and you know just I

got to preserve my voice too so it's

actually better for me so that I can

control my pace and my where where I'm

landing you know vocally um to tell a

story to force me to to into being able

to control it more and then I'm going

give you a run cuz I just I like it I

like it yeah you going to close strong

oh I hope so I hope so I heard you twice

yesterday you going to close strong okay

praise the

Lord um

so in that flow right one of the things

that that um I heard of you yesterday

that I paid attention to because one of

the things I I shared with you yesterday

is I think that one of the challenges of

preachers who listen listen to preaching

is that most of the time they just

listen to be blessed they don't listen

to see how the person is accomplishing

the task of the sermon throughout the

sermon how are they building this house

you know and um I definitely heard the

introduction that started with the story

and led into the text um I heard

yesterday at both Services a question

raised so do you develop a relevant

question that goes along with your

sermon each time or are there just times

where there's something that you believe

that the audience is asking in

relationship to the text and you want to

expose that as you move along so I

developed what I call a so what question

okay why why why this sermon like why

what is happening in the world or what

is happening in the lives of our

listeners that you you know this sermon

seeks to attend to um and and this is

for me what I call the the Rama of the

sermon like what's what's the Rama for

this sermon right um what or what makes

this sermon a rama for these people at

this time um and so I for every sermon

I'm going to I'm going to raise a

question and that kind of question now I

know you know for you know folks who are you

you

know uh Proctor you know uh fans of pro

Dr Proctor but um I don't I don't know

if this would be considered a a relevant

question or anything like that but this

for me um helps ground the sermon in

everyday life because I'm attempting to

address some kind of a um real life how

am I supposed to or how can I um kind of

a question um to help it to help INF

flesh the sermon yeah so then also as a

part of what I um witnessed yesterday

yesterday

the way that you unearth things in the

text that I would

say are the dangers of what you talked

about in the beginning you you do a

great job of saying this is how the text

would normally be seen or presented

however when you look look at it in its

original language and its original

intent it really doesn't mean that it

means this so like yesterday you talked

about this whole piece of um M Jo and

how when job says to her you you foolish

woman and it's really more like

your um words don't match your character

not that you're a fool but it's what

you're saying is not who I know you to be

right how do you suggest to a preacher

preacher

to have the

confidence to push

against the normative ways of preaching

a text and not be

fearful that the text may be written off

to people because it's not presenting

the normative ways mhm so I think to

number one you actually have to do your

homework right and so this is where it

it it is important to be in conversation

with those those Scholars and um thought

leaders on on a text um because that

that that kind of a a thing came up just

reading multiple commentaries um if you

happen to have access to you know Hebrew

Scholars Greek Scholars and stuff like

that call them and ask them a question

right um but most of us don't have

access to that right so like you really

just have to let those commentaries be

your friend and read multiples

especially when you we're reading those

texts that can be harmful right like

this this this passage has been used to

denigrate women right like it it J's

wife is always been demonized across the

history of Christianity right um when

you know a lot of us wrestle with those

kinds of a questions how in the world

are you holding on to your integrity

with everything that we got going on

like what is this like you would be mad

too like we have those moments too right

and so I think it's a matter of one

doing your homework but then two finding

parallel situations in real life where

people are actually wrestling with that

so that this is the you know before you

get mad at Miss joob remember that you

know when when your when you lost three

loved ones in a few months time span you

were mad at God too right when you and

finding those real life examples really

kind of help people see themselves in

the text and it gives them a different

posture towards whoever that person is

that you're you're seeking to illuminate

you know or make the center of

conversation also you just got to say

the thing right um You got to say the

thing when it comes to the actual moment

of proclamation um there there may be

people who are going to push against

what you said and that's fair that

invites conversation we only get better

when we are in conversation with people

who are willing to say hey I don't know

about that right now have those

conversations before too right like you

should be conversation with um friends

and colleagues you should have a

preaching partner right actually um I

have a friend who's also Seminary grad

you know brilliant person and um he

actually is the person I Workshop this

sermon with like I'm thinking through

you know this interpretation that I'm

that I'm seeing in the text and just

being in conversation with him before it

ever made it to the sermon because I'm

like this could be wrong like and I

remember you know in writing that sermon

I remember just you know not being sure

of not being of this interpretation

because it was a push against not

intentionally itn't like I was I'm

pushing but it was what I was seeing in

the text right but I knew that it was a

push against common you know ways of

interpreting the text and so being in

conversation with people um to help you

think through in the process um

identifying parallel experiences in real

life and having done your homework and

then just go say the thing yeah yeah so

illustrations mhm can be hard for people yeah

yeah

yeah I again I go back to I listened to

you yesterday twice and I heard six different

different

illustrations that I mean in addition to

the the start and the Finish but every

Point had away of illustrating the

point and I was just sitting there like

this is masterful I mean in in a very

strong way you pulled from so many

different places I mean I think by the

time seron was over yesterday I said

that dag want your KN has taken us from the

the

jellyfish who had this inescapable way

of continuing to um keep on

going to find a Nemo right yeah and

everything right in between I mean the

sermon started off talking about

somebody in what Australia to the

jellyfish to find a Nemo like

and you even bought in brandy you know

lyrics from Brandy I mean it's a wide

range of things that I would say

masterfully pull in so many different

types of audiences

right um to The Brainiac who's a fan of

you know world events or history right

you got Australia right to the child or

person who just loves movies and is

always watch certain things you've got

find a Nemo and everybody responded to

that find a Nemo I was like Janise has P

all of them in we find a Nemo but then

to hear the ooze and eyes when you

quoted Brandy right I mean there's so

many different pockets of places and

then I don't know if you heard this in

the preaching yesterday but when you

talked about the the

fish somebody on the second row called

The Fish by the same name you did as you

were preaching because he might have

been the only one in the room who knew

about it right but there's somebody who

understands it and my question really to

you for for preachers is how do you

create such a

balance in finding illustrative material

content for the sermon that is going to

speak to all the different Pockets that

can be within an audience so

transparently I I don't know that as I'm

thinking about stories that I'm thinking

about in those moments how many people

can I reach with the story okay right um

I am just thinking about what ways can I

INF fles this idea what in what ways can

I make this can I give a window into

this claim that I'm trying to make um I

usually do more of the how can I connect

with multiple people

in my run so like throughout the sermon

there's going to be a run in probably

every movement they'll be shorter than

like in my conclusion but like there's

going to be a run because in those

places where I'm giving you real life

snapshots of this that I'm trying to

make a claim about um I'm like able to

you know you can you can you know call

on somebody who's experiencing this

experience you can call on somebody

who's you know this age group you can

call you know um when it comes to

stories man I I just be reading and

watching like I legit will read random

books and will watch Tik toks and you I

watch so I watch a lot of uh

documentaries and um I watch I when I

say that I really love documentaries I

watch documentaries about you know the

solar system I love astronomy so I watch

all kinds of documentaries about the

universe and just like I've always been

a nerd that wayy science I love it um so

I'm watching documentaries about animals

and stuff

um and then I just I have literally have

like a running note in my phone um for

just like illustrations and I never know

when I'm going to use the illustration

it just as I see them and as they seem

like oh this might be useful at some

point just write it down and just put it

in the note and just leave it there

until like oh my goodness this might fit

um and then you know and then sometimes

I'm in search of a story so um the

katari which is the the the shift that

was carrying um the immigrants to

Australia um I found that because I when

I got the idea for the sermon which I

had got this idea um like a a while ago

and had just been germinating for for

some time and um I just I actually

bought a couple books cuz I'm like I

want to learn about shipwrecks so I

there's a book called A History of the

World in 12 shipwrecks so I bought that

uh never finished it cuz it wasn't what

I thought it was going to be but you

know I'll keep for at some point it

might come up come in handy um then I

went on YouTube and was looking for you

know stories about shipwrecks so that's

a real story that happened and I

literally was just watching the guy tell

stories about different shipwrecks and I

was like huh what I was trying to do

was paint an image of what the people in

the text were likely

experiencing this is what cuz cuz we

don't have any record of you know that

particular ship right

but there are shipwrecks thaten through

the world so how do I help people just

how catastrophic this event was well I

went and found a story of a real life

shipwreck and especially as I was

because I was taking a different angle

you know dealing with the swimmers so

I'm like how do I how do I um help

people understand just what these people

were experiencing and how do I prove

what I know that I found in my

investigation that you know the water

was filled with debris

and you already after all this5 days

of this ship now you got swim through

the debris like how do I paint that

picture for well I wouldn't found a

story you know and so sometimes it's a

the story found me other times I found

the story and you know it's just about

again when you know what claim it is

you're trying to make it's a lot easier

to figure out you know okay how do I

illustrate that claim you can't

illustrate a claim you know nothing of

right so so that that goes back to the

you know being intentional about this is

the main claim of the sermon and then these are the claims that I'm making in

these are the claims that I'm making in every movement and once you get clear on

every movement and once you get clear on those things it's a lot easier to then

those things it's a lot easier to then pair a some kind of story with them mhm

pair a some kind of story with them mhm now I guess as we kind of round

now I guess as we kind of round up from your

up from your teaching um side of what you've seen as

teaching um side of what you've seen as you've been out working with

you've been out working with preachers helping develop

preachers helping develop um preachers and the craft of

um preachers and the craft of preaching what do you

preaching what do you think

think that um preachers

that um preachers need to learn how to do

I I just feel like this moment of inclusio right returning back to the the

inclusio right returning back to the the the conversation we had at the beginning

the conversation we had at the beginning read and execute the Bible like we

read and execute the Bible like we really not doing that enough like I I

really not doing that enough like I I really don't think two things actually

really don't think two things actually so I would say reading and exting the

so I would say reading and exting the Bible and really just spending time with

Bible and really just spending time with it I I remember someone said to me a

it I I remember someone said to me a couple ministers said to me I was doing

couple ministers said to me I was doing a workshop with associate ministers

a workshop with associate ministers which I really love to do because you

which I really love to do because you know a lot of folks don't have access to

know a lot of folks don't have access to Seminary and so I love to go and work

Seminary and so I love to go and work with associate ministers and just

with associate ministers and just partner with Pastors in that work so

partner with Pastors in that work so invite

invite her right so inv

her right so inv um but part of the reason why is because

um but part of the reason why is because it teaches me so much about um how to

it teaches me so much about um how to teach and what and What needs to be

teach and what and What needs to be taught um because I literally had

taught um because I literally had several ministers come to me and say I I

several ministers come to me and say I I didn't realize this was so hard I didn't

didn't realize this was so hard I didn't realize this took so much time and

realize this took so much time and because I think you know people think

because I think you know people think that we just get sermons by mostos

that we just get sermons by mostos osmosis or something um but they don't

osmosis or something um but they don't realize how much work it is to execute

realize how much work it is to execute the text how how much work goes into um

the text how how much work goes into um that final product we see on Sundays and

that final product we see on Sundays and in revivals we see this you know this

in revivals we see this you know this big you know cataclysmic grandiose

big you know cataclysmic grandiose moment of you know oratory Excellence

moment of you know oratory Excellence right but there was so much work that

right but there was so much work that went into it right and and even with you

went into it right and and even with you know some of the folks that you know are

know some of the folks that you know are are you know Mount rushmor of preaching

are you know Mount rushmor of preaching you know they put a lot of work into it

you know they put a lot of work into it right they folks were constantly reading

right they folks were constantly reading books right reading constantly reading

books right reading constantly reading the Bible constantly reading books so

the Bible constantly reading books so that stuff was was and for you know some

that stuff was was and for you know some of our favorites today like there's so

of our favorites today like there's so many you'll talk to you know of our

many you'll talk to you know of our favorites who are who will tell you they

favorites who are who will tell you they really be reading the Bible they really

really be reading the Bible they really be reading books and that stuff just

be reading books and that stuff just never turns off in their minds right and

never turns off in their minds right and so really spending time exting the Bible

so really spending time exting the Bible and coming to the Bible and suspending

and coming to the Bible and suspending as much as you possibly can that for

as much as you possibly can that for knowledge and and suspending what it is

knowledge and and suspending what it is you want the text to say and just

you want the text to say and just letting the text speak for itself on its

letting the text speak for itself on its own terms I think that's something you

own terms I think that's something you know that folks could do better and then

know that folks could do better and then also that really developing and spending

also that really developing and spending time to develop that thesis statement

time to develop that thesis statement cuz that thing will be your Saving Grace

cuz that thing will be your Saving Grace you know when people talk about like

you know when people talk about like they wrote a sermon and sermon was 45

they wrote a sermon and sermon was 45 minutes first of all

minutes first of all no like if you're the pastor of the

no like if you're the pastor of the church go and do whatever it is you want

church go and do whatever it is you want to do right if you getting invited to go

to do right if you getting invited to go preach

preach somewhere ask them how much time you

somewhere ask them how much time you have and for the most part they're not

have and for the most part they're not giving you most places are some places

giving you most places are some places will but like 45 minutes is a very long

will but like 45 minutes is a very long time if you're a guest preacher

time if you're a guest preacher especially if you're an associate

especially if you're an associate Minister you know be honor the time that

Minister you know be honor the time that was given to you right and the only way

was given to you right and the only way you're going to be able to cut down the

you're going to be able to cut down the sermon that's 45 minutes in its origin

sermon that's 45 minutes in its origin down to a 30 minute sermon is your

down to a 30 minute sermon is your thesis statement your thesis statement

thesis statement your thesis statement then becomes your

then becomes your filter and you can ask yourself using

filter and you can ask yourself using your thesis statement of the rest of the

your thesis statement of the rest of the cont in a sermon do I need to say this

cont in a sermon do I need to say this in order to support this thesis

in order to support this thesis statement if the answer is no you can

statement if the answer is no you can cut it out yeah if you don't need to say

cut it out yeah if you don't need to say this thing or if you don't need to give

this thing or if you don't need to give this particular image or example in

this particular image or example in order to support that claim then you

order to support that claim then you don't need that particular piece right

don't need that particular piece right um I think once we once we figure out

um I think once we once we figure out how to how to encapsulate that main

how to how to encapsulate that main claim in a sermon um I think that we

claim in a sermon um I think that we will we will develop stronger sermons

will we will develop stronger sermons Clarity for me is is exceedingly

Clarity for me is is exceedingly important and I think you only get at

important and I think you only get at that by developing a clear thesis

that by developing a clear thesis statement okay all right last thing I'm

statement okay all right last thing I'm going to ask you and this is going to

going to ask you and this is going to jog your brain oh God I feel like I know

jog your brain oh God I feel like I know this is gone but go

this is gone but go ahead give us some books I knew that was

ahead give us some books I knew that was what you

what you was give us some books okay to read um

was give us some books okay to read um that particularly will help someone in

that particularly will help someone in their approach to developing sermons

their approach to developing sermons okay wow o the

man H God I want to give you my entire comprehensive exam

comprehensive exam list

list um there are so many so I'm going to

um there are so many so I'm going to start with my advisor Lisa Thompson's

start with my advisor Lisa Thompson's book Ingenuity in it she has so many

book Ingenuity in it she has so many different

different exercises on in route to developing a

exercises on in route to developing a sermon um for the sake of ex aesus and

sermon um for the sake of ex aesus and hermeneutics that I think will really

hermeneutics that I think will really benefit preachers um in their

benefit preachers um in their development process so Ingenuity by Lisa

development process so Ingenuity by Lisa Thompson um I will say you you really

Thompson um I will say you you really cannot go wrong with Thomas Long's

cannot go wrong with Thomas Long's witness of preaching like I mean today I

witness of preaching like I mean today I think it is still um an excellent book

think it is still um an excellent book that walks you through the actual

that walks you through the actual process of EX Jesus like I mean he just

process of EX Jesus like I mean he just gives it all to you there it's a classic

gives it all to you there it's a classic um so witness of preaching by Thomas

um so witness of preaching by Thomas long um in terms of of form do I get to

long um in terms of of form do I get to talk about form sure go go for it in

talk about form sure go go for it in terms of form um ah there's so many

terms of form um ah there's so many y'all already know and I

y'all already know and I just I gotta be

just I gotta be measured and okay let me think uh of

measured and okay let me think uh of course you know certain sound of the

course you know certain sound of the trumpet um kinata Gilbert's um journey

trumpet um kinata Gilbert's um journey and promise of African-American

and promise of African-American preaching um uh Frank Thomas's um

preaching um uh Frank Thomas's um celebration

man in terms of the exegetical process like that's the hard one cuz you know

like that's the hard one cuz you know you and I have these conversations about

you and I have these conversations about how many of them actually do that part

how many of them actually do that part of the process right and uh that's why

of the process right and uh that's why I'm like for for those for that process

I'm like for for those for that process I will give you witness of preaching and

I will give you witness of preaching and Ingenuity because I think they really do

Ingenuity because I think they really do a great job at that um

a great job at that um and and then I'll say I'll give you a

and and then I'll say I'll give you a bibliography to give to people all right

bibliography to give to people all right okay and sermon development a workbook

okay and sermon development a workbook for preachers that's right sell it right

for preachers that's right sell it right sell it we'll put it on the screen

sell it we'll put it on the screen awesome yeah put it on the screen okay

awesome yeah put it on the screen okay so if somebody is trying to get to you

so if somebody is trying to get to you yeah they want to be in a coaching

yeah they want to be in a coaching session with you they want to bring you

session with you they want to bring you to um do something for their ministers

to um do something for their ministers uh you have a CO

uh you have a CO that you developed for women talk about

that you developed for women talk about your work okay so everything you're

your work okay so everything you're doing start with the daughters of

doing start with the daughters of Elizabeth CU it's it's going amazingly

Elizabeth CU it's it's going amazingly so um I in January we launched Daughters

so um I in January we launched Daughters of Elizabeth which is a 12we coaching

of Elizabeth which is a 12we coaching group coaching cohort of women of five

group coaching cohort of women of five women at a time where we meet every week

women at a time where we meet every week and focus on one of the preachers in the

and focus on one of the preachers in the group and their actual preaching

group and their actual preaching practice and we're giving them feedback

practice and we're giving them feedback on their sermons and actually in real

on their sermons and actually in real time helping to figure out and to think

time helping to figure out and to think about their actual preaching practice

about their actual preaching practice and that's going so so well it literally

and that's going so so well it literally gives me life every time and so this was

gives me life every time and so this was our inaugural cohort and um I am

our inaugural cohort and um I am absolutely going to do this again in the

absolutely going to do this again in the fall um and so uh we have about 5 weeks

fall um and so uh we have about 5 weeks left of this cohort and so H it is just

left of this cohort and so H it is just it is just everything and I'm just so

it is just everything and I'm just so excited and a word about Elizabeth in

excited and a word about Elizabeth in the language of daughters of Elizabeth

the language of daughters of Elizabeth so in the history of black preaching

so in the history of black preaching Elizabeth is the name of the first black

Elizabeth is the name of the first black woman we have on record the first black

woman we have on record the first black woman preacher we have on record and she

woman preacher we have on record and she wrote her um autobiography in this

wrote her um autobiography in this little pamphlet um and her spiritual

little pamphlet um and her spiritual autobiography and she was a preacher she

autobiography and she was a preacher she was an enslaved black woman um and this

was an enslaved black woman um and this is the first name that we have on record

is the first name that we have on record just Elizabeth and so all of us from you

just Elizabeth and so all of us from you know from from Jarina Leon down right

know from from Jarina Leon down right are Daughters of Elizabeth and so I I

are Daughters of Elizabeth and so I I thought to name it you know after the

thought to name it you know after the the first black woman on record that we

the first black woman on record that we have who who named herself a preacher

have who who named herself a preacher um and so there's that and then I also

um and so there's that and then I also do you know preaching Labs with

do you know preaching Labs with associate ministers and pastors and and

associate ministers and pastors and and so I've gone to churches to do two-day

so I've gone to churches to do two-day workshops where I come in and we

workshops where I come in and we literally spend hours just working

literally spend hours just working through the sermon development process

through the sermon development process and so I'm literally giving them you

and so I'm literally giving them you know instruction and then also a lot of

know instruction and then also a lot of workshopping so they can in real time

workshopping so they can in real time get feedback on the mechanics of

get feedback on the mechanics of developing a sermon um and then of

developing a sermon um and then of course you know the sermon development

course you know the sermon development workbook which you know is blew my mind

workbook which you know is blew my mind how fast and wide it actually went um

how fast and wide it actually went um when it originally it that was never the

when it originally it that was never the intent like you know I I talk about all

intent like you know I I talk about all the time that you know when when I um

the time that you know when when I um created the workbook I actually created

created the workbook I actually created the workbook like a year before I ever

the workbook like a year before I ever actually posted it it was supposed to

actually posted it it was supposed to just be a companion to my coaching

just be a companion to my coaching practice um because I also work with

practice um because I also work with preachers individually I do individual

preachers individually I do individual coaching as well um

coaching as well um and I developed the workbook so the

and I developed the workbook so the first couple of people that I coached

first couple of people that I coached actually have an earlier iteration of

actually have an earlier iteration of the workbook before was called sermon

the workbook before was called sermon development it was called um homic

development it was called um homic coaching with jius Williams so um so

coaching with jius Williams so um so they have that version of it um but now

they have that version of it um but now um it it later was a thing that I just

um it it later was a thing that I just happened to post the inside of on

happened to post the inside of on Instagram Story one day and um Dr

Instagram Story one day and um Dr Diamond Brooks and um Dr Ricky Harvey Jr

Diamond Brooks and um Dr Ricky Harvey Jr both were like like oh where can I get

both were like like oh where can I get that and they were first person to buy

that and they were first person to buy first people to buy it that like the

first people to buy it that like the same day like within minutes of each

same day like within minutes of each other they trying they they didn't know

other they trying they they didn't know it but they literally like within

it but they literally like within minutes of each other it was almost like

minutes of each other it was almost like they were competing to see who can

they were competing to see who can get and then the next day I like was

get and then the next day I like was like well let me see what happens about

like well let me see what happens about post this and you know the rest is

post this and you know the rest is history bananas quick yeah quick like

history bananas quick yeah quick like and so and I'm grateful for that um

and so and I'm grateful for that um because it it it affirmed this work that

because it it it affirmed this work that my soul must have and so um the sermon

my soul must have and so um the sermon development workbook I still think you

development workbook I still think you know like I said I use it every time

know like I said I use it every time around like every sermon that I write I

around like every sermon that I write I usually bring it with me when I preach

usually bring it with me when I preach and I didn't bring it I have a sermon

and I didn't bring it I have a sermon idea that I'm working on at least in my

idea that I'm working on at least in my heart and I was going to start work

heart and I was going to start work every time I get done preaching I'm

every time I get done preaching I'm ready to preach again so I you know I

ready to preach again so I you know I got a sermon idea and I just wish I

got a sermon idea and I just wish I would have brought it with me CU like

would have brought it with me CU like I'm itching to like itching to get ready

I'm itching to like itching to get ready um but yeah so sermon development

um but yeah so sermon development workbook um which you know is is a great

workbook um which you know is is a great gift uh for pastors to give to their

gift uh for pastors to give to their associate ministers who they're you know

associate ministers who they're you know trying to train and preach

trying to train and preach um and those are the primary ways so

um and those are the primary ways so individual coaching well sermon

individual coaching well sermon development workbook individual coaching

development workbook individual coaching I do group coaching preaching Labs with

I do group coaching preaching Labs with associate ministers and then now the

associate ministers and then now the 12we daughters of Elizabeth cohort which

12we daughters of Elizabeth cohort which will be launching again in the fall okay

will be launching again in the fall okay are you still doing um the study groups

are you still doing um the study groups that you were doing yeah so the

that you were doing yeah so the preaching lab is actually an online a

preaching lab is actually an online a small online community where you know we

small online community where you know we we talk about preaching we you know we

we talk about preaching we you know we in always in conversation about

in always in conversation about preaching I host um weekly co-working

preaching I host um weekly co-working groups through it so you have to

groups through it so you have to actually be a member of the preaching

actually be a member of the preaching lab to access those um group coaching I

lab to access those um group coaching I mean group co-working space um and then

mean group co-working space um and then also we do quarterly webinars where

also we do quarterly webinars where we've had you know Pastor John fac come

we've had you know Pastor John fac come and teach about preaching we've had Dr

and teach about preaching we've had Dr Daniel Brown come and teach about

Daniel Brown come and teach about preaching and I'll I'll tease it here

preaching and I'll I'll tease it here because I've already got confirmation

because I've already got confirmation for it but next our next speaker will be

for it but next our next speaker will be Bishop Rudolph mckisic and he'll be

Bishop Rudolph mckisic and he'll be coming to talk and so you know quarter

coming to talk and so you know quarter we've got somebody new coming to talk

we've got somebody new coming to talk about preaching um and that's just

about preaching um and that's just accessible to um the people in the lab

accessible to um the people in the lab they also get free resources so you know

they also get free resources so you know I've given them a um congregational ex

I've given them a um congregational ex Jesus you know template giv them um you

Jesus you know template giv them um you know a

know a um self exeresis template and so any new

um self exeresis template and so any new resources that I develop that are going

resources that I develop that are going to be like free and stuff they all get

to be like free and stuff they all get that for free um and so that's the

that for free um and so that's the that's the preaching lab so you can

that's the preaching lab so you can access that on my website as well okay

access that on my website as well okay Janice has all the resources give give

Janice has all the resources give give us your website one more time so that we

us your website one more time so that we have it and I definitely urge every

have it and I definitely urge every preacher and everyone who knows a

preacher and everyone who knows a preacher to give them the information so

preacher to give them the information so that they have it yeah so my website is

that they have it yeah so my website is well I have two websites but my personal

well I have two websites but my personal website you can access the other one too

website you can access the other one too but Janice rene.com now my name is

but Janice rene.com now my name is spelled j a n i e c e this is important

spelled j a n i e c e this is important because

because that Jen is misspelling killing people

that Jen is misspelling killing people it kills people every time around but

it kills people every time around but Janice rene.com uh you can access

Janice rene.com uh you can access everything that I have okay all right

everything that I have okay all right and then as we close um I want you to

and then as we close um I want you to look into your camera and give um from a

look into your camera and give um from a homti

homti standpoint uh a final word to preachers

standpoint uh a final word to preachers about what preaching uh means means

about what preaching uh means means especially black preaching in this

especially black preaching in this current

current climate my philosophy of preaching is

climate my philosophy of preaching is that good preaching keeps people alive

that good preaching keeps people alive that at the end of the day when we do

that at the end of the day when we do our due diligence on the side of sermon

our due diligence on the side of sermon development we do our due diligence on

development we do our due diligence on the side of EX exting a text and um

the side of EX exting a text and um getting to know who our congregation is

getting to know who our congregation is at the end of the day all that boils

at the end of the day all that boils down to the idea and the reality that

down to the idea and the reality that good preaching keeps people live there

good preaching keeps people live there are people that come into a preaching

are people that come into a preaching Space Week in and week out or Revival

Space Week in and week out or Revival whatever the context is there are people

whatever the context is there are people that come into those spaces ready to

that come into those spaces ready to give up on life trying to figure out if

give up on life trying to figure out if they're going to go home and end it all

they're going to go home and end it all trying to figure out how they're going

trying to figure out how they're going to navigate this political climate

to navigate this political climate that's quite literally threatening the

that's quite literally threatening the livelihood of real life human beings

livelihood of real life human beings each and every day and they're listening

each and every day and they're listening to figure out what does God have to say

to figure out what does God have to say to them that at the end of the

to them that at the end of the day life is on the line of our preaching

day life is on the line of our preaching and when we are faithful to do our due

and when we are faithful to do our due diligence in the preparation of a sermon

diligence in the preparation of a sermon I believe God will be faithful in making

I believe God will be faithful in making that sermon do a new thing in a lives of

that sermon do a new thing in a lives of our listeners so that's what I have to

our listeners so that's what I have to say thank you Janice Williams thank you

say thank you Janice Williams thank you thank

you navigating the natural and theology influencing people to find purpose and

influencing people to find purpose and live with

live with we descended to Christ just acknowledge

we descended to Christ just acknowledge me the sac scriptures tell us throw down

me the sac scriptures tell us throw down your NS come and follow me the

your NS come and follow me the leadership that's anointed and appointed

leadership that's anointed and appointed when leading God's people sometimes you

when leading God's people sometimes you become disappointed you do what you can

become disappointed you do what you can you do what you know you give it to God

you do what you know you give it to God and let it go go go the

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Trascrizione YouTube:"The Preaching Playbook: Sermon Development Strategies" with Rev. Janiece Williams (Season 2 •Ep. 3)