Financial institutions are actively developing and deploying private blockchain networks and platforms to facilitate the movement of trillions of dollars, aiming to improve efficiency, interoperability, and create new opportunities for asset utilization within a regulated framework.
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welcome and yeah this is a panel all
about the private blockchains that have
been developed and exist and are moving
trillions of Dollars around the world
already and where it stands and um the
degree to which they're going to be
opened up and I think the place I'd love
to start with would be with you Raj
because you have a prime example of this
you have your own blockchain which you call
call
MTN and I'm going to come out and say
that probably most people here haven't
even heard of it but it kind of it plugs
into all manner of things tell us a
little bit about what you are up to
thanks thanks for having me um so uh we
at MasterCard started this journey a
couple of years ago where we saw a
couple of things happening uh obviously
everybody knows about the public chains
and the assets that are going in the
currencies that are going in
um that is one aspect of it uh there is
also uh when it comes to trade when it
buying and selling you need money and
obviously stable coin is one answer but
there's also $18 trillion worth of Bank
deposits as of last um month I think uh
in various Banks uh some of whom are
represented here end of the day that is
a scalable business model for the banks
it's distributed it's available and that
need to be available for transaction in
as well so what does it take to put that
together how do you solve this where you
need to represent this money that Fiat
money that exists uh in some cases there
may be stable coins as well but there is
assets that are coming in the public
chain the first thing that we said that
we needed to do is is our first product
um which is whenever you interact with a
public chain you need to know who the
counterparty is you need to know what
they represent uh many of the companies
that are here represented here is
actually is assets and they are actually
regulated in their own sense and they uh
they but you need to know that as a as a
person buying or selling so knowing that
and having a framework for identifying
those counterparties is essential so we
launched a product called crypto
credential first which is a building
block towards the MTM that you refer to
so that is the first piece and the
second how do you represent the money
itself in an interoperable way the bank
money as well as some other forms of the
money uh being stable coins or even um
uh other forms of value that is
represented how do you represent in the
blockchain how you complete the
transactions now this is not just about
the capital capital Market assets is a
big use case that's why this conference
exists and that's where many of the
people but there are other forms of
assets that people want to tokenize as
well we have trade Finance who wants to
uh do letter of credits and and invoices
and represent that in token form as well
so end of the day this all need to be
orchestrated so what we are multi token
network is really a platform think of it
as a platform on which applications can
be developed where you can understand
who the counterparties are you can bring
bank money some of which would be
represented in traditional ledgers not
even blockchain some of which would be
represented in a blockchain uh based
technology upgraded but still living
within the bank and some forms of the
currency in this beginning to come
you're seeing some examples of this in
markets where the bank money itself is
going to the the public chain but how do
you orchestrate all this end of the day
we need to deliver a net effect of a DVP
uh delivery versus payment use case
across multiple applications some are
Capital Market some are not Capital
Market we won't be the one issuing the
asset we will not be the one um uh uh uh
even uh representing the final custody
of that asset but we want to provide a
platform on which people can build and
build applications so we have couple of
banks who are connected and more
applications connecting uh Ando is is a
great example of that so okay so tell me
a little bit first of all about
um this sounds great in theory in
practice who's using it how popular has
this roof how long has it existed even
yeah so the journey has just started you
know the the overall regulatory
environment um and how uh not all every
uh every bank is uh ready to uh was
ready to get into this I think that has
Chang changing it's already changed
outside us and and in the current
climate I think it will change here as
well um so we publicly announced um you
know we first did in Hong Kong with
Standard Chartered um a uh carbon credit
based transaction um uh late last year
we announced a partnership with JP
Morgan uh there are more conversations
happening um it's early days but end of
the day this is about platform building
building platforms scalable platforms
takes time and uh the right building
blocks need to be in place we think the
first building block is really having
this kind of a a mechanism where you can
identify the counterparty have a a set
of rules by which you can identify and
interact with for whatever transactions
are that's our crypto credential and uh
uh and the second is is really providing
this platform on which applications can
be built so yeah I mean as as a
journalist I talk to a bunch of tech
companies and all tech companies tell me
they're a platform everyone needs to be
a platform these days um you know
spoiler alert we're going to about to
talk to Ryan about um moving deposits
around the world and you are a bank and
you have Bank deposits it's obvious why
a City Bank would be doing that can you
just talk a little bit
about why MasterCard makes sense to be
the entity that is creating this this
layer and this platform yeah it's a very
good question so uh today we bring um
thousands and thousands of banks
together in our tradition business which
is card-based business um today you can
get a card issued from one of the banks
and walk into 130 million plus locations
anywhere in the world uh and use that
without having to pre- coordinate how
the money is going to pay you're going
to go tap somewhere they let you walk
out with Goods without checking with you
what what who issued the card and where
it came from how is that I know you
everyone goes through that experience
every day but how is that possible it is
possible based on a set of rules um that
on which people can trust and operate um
so this platform business is not new to
us we know how to organize ecosystems
bring parties together in an equitable
way so that they contribute value and
they get more out of it from the network
because the network grows and that
happens when people can trust it when
people can uh conduct transactions in a
trustworthy way identify counterparties
in a in an easy way and build uh
Solutions so that's what scales and
we've done that in card Network we've
done that in um open banking um uh we do
this in a and so we think this this
requires such an organization as well
and that's what we're hoping to add
value on so Ryan um over to you you um
also have your own blockchain tell me a
little bit about um yeah moving money
during golden
week so we build City City token
Services um the last couple years went
live officially uh in September this
year and the pain point that we are
trying to solve for was we service you
know 19,000 clients that you know are 90
plus countries typically on a day-to-day
basis these large corporates T are
managing liquidity and payments in
multi-i so you keep buffers of cash in
these different regions which is really
an inefficient use of cash and the
reason they do that is because bank
holidays and cut off times so the
ability to move money instantaneously
247 on a 365 basis is really what our
corporates wanted so if you needed it
for you know m&a activity overdraft
whatever the cases you can use that so
that's what we built so you know Raj
talks about like the network so we built
City token services within City's four
walls right so you now we can meant and
burn you know tokens within City but
we've often skated all the complexity of
a blockchain away from our clients and
that was by Design so you know if you're
sending money from New York to Singapore
we meant it in New York send it to
Singapore deposit it but the the clients
have cash in their accounts like the
feedback we got was like one this
technology is new it's still emerging
they don't have the resources two they
don't want to manage tokens yet large
Enterprises is who we're targeting so I
mean that seems very similar in in the
to what you were saying about your own
thing where it's just about taking cash
using it to buy a thing or just using it
to move the cash from one place to
another and as the client I don't want
to know from blockchain chain I like you
are like you pulling away from the the
trendy buzzword and you're just like let
me make certain things that you want to
do a bit easier
um is so in terms of where you're at
you're in how how many different
countries are connected to this network
right now so currently right now we're
three but you know adding additional um
this year also and is there any vision
of making this be bigger than just the
four walls of City we actually started
like our thesis statement our clients
gave us was multi-bank multiorder always
on liquidity and payments so we started
working with various organizations like
the regulated liability Network RSN
project Agora on what does that Network
look like for the future but if you
can't move a token within the four walls
of your own institution how are you
going to connect to a network so really
building out that with our clients and I
truly believe success bre success so
showing value day one where clients
where they have money where they were
unable to do because of a bank holiday
or Chinese New Year last week now they
can move it
instantaneously um so what's your um
success Criterion like what what does if
if I come back here in a year you know
what what would you hope to be able to
show it's really based on client demand
I mean obviously growing more and more
client demand because you know the speed
of money doesn't match the speed of the
internet right if we think about digital
Commerce the way that money actually
moves in reality and I think it's been
interesting launching the early adopter
program at city is you know we thought
it was just for liquidity and payments
but the uses of different programmable
money like if my account drops below X
in Singapore send money directly to New
York so there's or MMA has someone done
that yet and t+1 settlement so you're
seeing these like use cases that you
know we started very small but it's
starting to you know expand and I think
the Holy Grail that we're all trying to
get to is like DVP Atomic settlement
right where but if you don't have like
the cash on ledger to be able to move
money real time you'll never kind of get
to that rwa instantaneous
settlement so that brings me to You
Caroline because you have
um like a a basically this and then
broadened out across a whole bunch of
other asset classes too tell tell me
about do you everyone on this panel has
a blockchain you have a blockchain you
you tell you you must have a blockchain
we do plus we have a platform believe it
or not you have a BL we have a platform
yes course we have but I but I do think
all joking aside you know the the
platform piece is very important right
because that breeds that Network effect
we have a philosophy in bmy that this is
about a fundamental change in Market
structure and obviously blockchain
technologies have proved themselves as
great utilities for assets like Bitcoin
we started on the crypto uh custody side
we are the world's largest uh custodian
we custody 51 trillion of assets
clearly that is uh there's a way to go
in the tokenized world and the digital
asset world to get to that level but we
felt the obligation to be there to
service our clients on the crypto side
so we started in October 2022 with the
crypto offering for Bitcoin and ether um
obviously the market shifted a little
bit at that moment in time but we stayed
convicted and why did we stay convicted
because we felt that first off you
needed that trusted partner to actually
really enable this ecosystem to thrive
and to enable the market we
fundamentally believe that blockchain
Technologies smart contract technology
is a derivative of are the Technologies
of the future to break some of the
issues that exist in the market
structure and don't hear me say that
we're going to incrementally optimize a
50-year-old Market infrastructure no we
believe that we're at the precipice
that's your job we believe that we're at
the preus of real Market structure
change so whether you want to relate it
back to the introduction of ccps csds
back in the' 70s is or whether you want
to think about it as electronic trading
like this is the next big shift so
people shouldn't think about it as just
incremental benefits of a technology
like this is the next wave and why is
that important and what does our digital
asset platform do we're enabling whether
it's we started with custody because if
you can't keep the assets safe I mean
you're starting from a very Rocky
foundation so we felt like putting that
foundation in place and you can think
about that as a a little bit of the
backend infrastructures as well the same
way you don't want clients having to
think about the infrastructure pipes and
plumbing same way you want them to be
sure that their assets are safe but it's
enabling then the mobility of those
assets and the greater utility of those
assets through the value chain so at BM
we operate across the entire value chain
whether it's issuance payments um
custody financing collateral we're the
largest collateral provider for us it's
very important that if a client has an
asset the ability to now wrap that asset
whether you call that tokenization or
other to actually get greater value out
of that asset instantaneously so the
next step is atomic settlement so free
up the asset straight away but freeing
it up for what purpose right it's to
then create Extra Value to pump it
through either into collateral to lend
it to do many many many things that
today in the ecosystem we live in either
take multiple days or are actually not
possible to do so said very simply for
us it's like let's make clients money
work more for them and work more for the
world and do that in a very seamless way
24 by7 so the actual platform itself
enables that where we are at the moment
in the ecosystem there's still
particularly on the tokenization side
there's still a lot of you know use
cases that are starting to come to
Market that are really proving out there
is like day-to-day value so whether it's
tokenized money market funds we've got
the very big luxury um to have a lot of
diverse clients who are really
evangelizing this space so um we are
actually managing and servicing I think
it's the majority of tokenized funds at
BM across public and private blockchains
which I think is somewhat unique for
banks and again that was a privilege
that we got because we educated
ourselves on public change through
crypto so I think we understand where
public chains have an advantage for
certain use cases versus private chains
and also until iiz bonds as well we're
seeing a lot of um work there whether
it's through the ECB trials um and
different initiatives so again that to
me is more of an efficiency play take a
lot of the inefficiencies out of the
market make it run cheaper but also take
out the operational
risk I mean so it seems to me a little
bit as though you
are doing this incrementally you're like
I'm going to I'm going to you know
tokenize a money market fund over here
I'm going to talk to the ECB over there
I might dry a bond over here I'll build
out a platform here there will be um
demand from various different clients
and we will
grow and yet you're saying like no this
is not the plan I do not want to be like
growing one step at at a time I want a
revolutionary um change and I'm just
kind of wondering when that
revolutionary change is meant to happen
do you think it will take a while right
I Rome wasn't built in a day I think for
a real shift in the market Market it's
going to take a number of years but it's
those use cases that are incremental the
foundations are there now we've got our
platform it can do many many things
these use cases are today value use
cases they're making either investors
money or they're making the
intermediates the asset managers money
so you're seeing real money then come
into the ecosystem as a result of that
so those needs of clients are being
instantaneously met and then to Raj's
point then you get the network effect
that starts to build off that and that's
why we all work with each other to make
sure that we compow that so I think
you'll start seeing that shift when you
start seeing more and more flow
particularly coming into the
tokenization sides um and then you'll
start to see the momentum in the market
where that market structure will really
play into it for me the last mile is
Cash though there's still a bifurcation
of Solutions in the market um some of
them have a real Market fit stable coin
but there's still a need for something
that is truly interoperable across all
of the players that can enable that onc
ramp and I think that's one of the last
mile hurdles you've obviously got the
liquidity hurdles that also exist in the
tokenization market we can solve for
that on the collateral side and we can
solve for that in B and by hooking up to
liquidity venues that I don't see as an
issue that's about bringing the
ecosystem together but I think the
creativity that needs to happen in the
market now is how do we bring onchain
cash in a real way that can operate
across the ecosystem and Bridge The
Divide between the security side and the
cash side Raj isn't that like what
you're trying to do no so no the the
problem statement is is real so there
are two aspects of this interoperability
that Caroline just talked about one is
there are multiple Banks participating
there is a sending Bank receiving Bank
how does that cash represented on chain
kind of can clear and get settled it
happens in a certain way in the
traditional Network how do we make that
chain on the Chain without uh
significant overhead in a standard way
so that is problem one and second is um
how do you do the asset exchange so uh
they're doing the building blocks we're
not doing the custody so she's uh uh so
there are different parts of the
ecosystems are coming together end of
the day we think there there need to be
a platform that that that allows what I
call really simply apps to be built apps
there's nothing but that is bringing end
user value to a business end user value
to a consumer
they need a common fabric on which they
need to operate and that's what the
ecosystem is trying to build we have an
answer and there are um there are other
Solutions out there as well um Ryan are
you are you in the market for a
interoperable cash transfer platform
that like please someone give me one and
I'll plug into it there's several out
there but absolutely we're not trying to
create a siloed City see there's one
person who doesn't want to be a platform
great that um that we don't the clients
don't want a city token they don't don't
want xbank token they want multibank you
know always on so it doesn't make sense
for you know that's why we collaborate
together on these bigger issues and like
several of us up here on different
working groups together trying to figure
out like how to drive this forward and
you know it's not clear which one's
going to win right I mean there's public
private permission like all different
flavor flavors of it out there but you
know from a global standpoint standard
standpoint there's definitely a ton of
initiatives out there around this space
I would say you know I used to joke with
my team if I had a dollar for every time
someone called me about a different
network I could retire you
know okay Nadine bring bring us back down
down
said bring bring us back down to earth
here um where where do you like having
listened to all of this having
understood where where these
Technologies are where um can you place
that in the context of this just massive
existing system that we that you are
part of at the dtcc and
um and to what degree do you see the
kind of uh agreement and consolidation
that's necessary for this to really take
off I don't know if it's consolidation
as much it is harmonization um and
integration but just to give you a sense
because I think you ask Caroline what do
you mean why is this taking so long the
numbers are not um impressive if you
just look at dtcc and we're the
depository for the US Equity market so
you're looking at 98 trillion dollars of
equities four quadrillion dollars in
settlement one of us messes this up
that's not a good thing right so we've
got to be very careful and purposeful in
our approach by all means this is as
disruptive of technology that we've ever
seen in our Collective lifetime but it
needs to be deployed with with purpose
um each one of these individuals and
organizations as well as many people in
in the audience everybody's doing a lot
of great work a lot of pioneering work
in in in this space we view our job
because we're the depository
and there's a lot of philos philosophies
whether ENT CSD will survive in a defi
world and who knows in 50 60 years what
will happen but in the immediate future
um unfortunately we're not going to
tokenize everything in one Fell Swoop
right so for a period of time we're
going to have traditional assets and uh
tokenized assets digital assets
coexisting and you need a party uh to
manage that convergence and this is
where dtcc comes in the second thing
that you heard and you've made that
comment a few times they each have a
platform they each have a blockchain
today alone we heard our hosts here uh
launched on L1 uh we heard Unis swap
launch and L2 I mean they're coming up
fast and furious every day um earlier
Carolina and I were joking about like we
need to hire somebody just to keep track
of these new Innovations coming out
every day so in in in in invert Le we've
created a lot of silos one of the
biggest Advantage the US market has is
we've got one post trade infrastructure
but with the way we're growing this
thing up because of different reasons
right there's speed of innovation
there's been some of the regulatory
constraints that were talked about in
the earlier panel so what we're trying
to do at dtcc is not replicate at all
what they're doing what we're trying to
do is build a solid foundation that
reinvents or reimagines what traditional
things we've done today right as a
depository you do issuance you do
custody you do clearing you do
settlement you do collateral but we
don't compete with anybody what we do is
we create the platform or the foundation
where then they run their apps on it or
they integrate their systems in it um
and that is one part of the of the
journey I think Ryan also hinted at the
other we have two other big impediments
that we've just got to figure out one is
around standards uh which is huge and
you're right like same thing every day
there's an organization coming up going
we've gotten five people around uh let's
have coffee and talk about standards and
then the most important component is
data um until we can streamline how we
talk to each other with with standards
around data that is also going to be
very difficult to get the the the
platform to call this I don't believe
there'll be one platform to rule them
all I think you ask the question who's
going to survive I think there'll be
many many l1s many many l2s there'll be
many many platforms I'm sure Raj's
competitor is doing exactly what he's
doing but there's a role for everybody
to play in this ecosystem and what we're
trying to do is just is just be the uh
like the way I think about them like
they all have Lego blocks that they're
putting together and we've just got that
flat sheet where we're just building the
apps um and the castle on top of it so
that is the role we're trying to play um
we're we're very lucky we're in a
trusted position with all our clients
all of them are our owners so we're
owner um we're participant owned and
governed so we've got a amazing ability
to sit down and collaborate uh with the
industry uh which is which is awesome
we've got that same trusted position
with our Regulators uh so we can build
bring the industry together um and work
together to make sure that we're not
overlapping but complimenting as we push
together and this is the Royal Wii this
is not just dtcc but the Royal Wii on
trying to do that um I agree with
Caroline it's going to take a while uh
Rome wasn't truly built in a day uh but
I'm hoping with the speed of technology
and the new things but we've got to be
careful we can't break can't leave like
a lot of um debris in our in our in our
way we've got to be very thoughtful and
responsible Pro and purposeful as we
push forward but it will happen it is
happening when you say the industry I
mean the financial services industry
well I mean so you go so you so you deal
mostly with Equity Securities no no
we've got we've got a little bit of
everything a little bit of everything
but but certainly mostly
Securities um
obviously there's a whole you know other Universe
Universe
of um you know options Futures and and
and so on and so forth then there's a
whole other Universe of 200 other
countries in the world which all have
their own different markets then there's
a whole other Universe of crypto
um and again like uh hu almost countless
number of regulators in I mean not just
in lots in the US but count
internationally at some
point where do you sort of draw the
boundaries of I mean you can't convene
everyone in one place where do you kind
of say we are we I'm just going to sort
of concentrate
on the fed and what they regulate or
something like that where do you kind of
say like we are going to have this
Garden where people can trust each other
and if a bunch of kids want to start
trading mem coins that's fine but that's
not going to be on our
platform I think you just said it right
we're not going to trade me going on our
platform well we're going to we're going
to stick to the traditional markets
obviously crypto is also an option uh
that was not available to us and it's
still not available but it's something
that um is in the realm of the
possibility right now where do we start
we start in our own backyard so we focus
on the US markets we focus on the US
Regulators now the beauty of this
technology do once you let a token go um
it may be issued here but it could it
could move globally um you know at the
speed of the network so that's why I
think that will force uh Regulators
we've done it before right like we've
after the global financial crisis The
Regulators did come together they did
come up with standards and my
expectation is at some point we we will
do the same with with u digital
technology but for right now we start
where we know we can make a massive
impact the US markets are still the
largest markets in the world so if we
can as they say if you can make it in
New York you can make it anywhere right
um and we start here and then we move
forward but we all represent global
companies uh we've got a global
footprint and my guess is we'll be able
to influence um and move forward just by
the sheer uh impact of the actions that
we will take so it is a it's a global
process but we can't solve it globally
we've got to start uh where it matters
and for me it's here Ryan you um you've
built this just tell me you have this
sounds relatively simple I have I'm a
corpor cor Corporation I have a bank
account at City Bank and I want to be
able to move money from Singapore to New
York how many different Regulators
needed to sign off on that before you
could like start selling this to clients
I mean naen had a really good point like
we are a US domicile country so we
worked here first with us Regulators to
get all the approvals and sign offs but
every country we roll it out in we engag
those Regulators as well so like
Singapore was our first branch and we
targeted the branches with the largest
like money hubs as well as like time
conflicts so you know 5:00 p.m in you
know New York is 5:00 a.m. in Singapore
so typically you couldn't set money now
you can but we worked you know with the
Mas after getting all the US approvals
to be able to do that and like so now
how long did it take to get the US
approvals you know it was a prolonged
period it was I mean it's a journey
though we're all in this together and
like I'm sure that you spent a lot of
time with like you know internally
externally stakeholders to explain this
technology and break it down in very
like you know digital money like token
you know bank account like wallet making
it very simplistic for everyone to
understand and like kind of demystify it
and then also for that reason we offens
skated all the complexity of the
technology from our clients like you log
on to City direct or via API you don't
have to have a wallet you don't have to
host a node like all that and like I
think that gave Comfort to our
regulators also about understanding how
we've set this up and are really focused
on safety and
soundness raaj you how many Regulators
do you deal with a week so our
traditional business we operate in in in
um hundreds 150 plus countries and so I
don't think I can give a simple answer
so in in this respect it is um we're
taking a very faced approach um uh we
are starting U International US dollar
International based uh uh transfers and
um uh the way that we have done is uh
this goes back into one of the things
that you're probing with all of us is is
because of the lack of clarity and how
Banks can get involved and put money
publicly on the Chain so a lot of them
starting rightfully so for their clients
and privately but we want to get to a
state where this can actually be public
that's the first thing that that that
that that need to happen so the way
we've solved for it very similar to what
Ryan said none of the users of our
system need to know anything about the
chain they all interact using simple
apis uh the capabilities are abstracted
it's internal um so it's easy for people
to use so we didn't have to um go
through um that kind of a process but if
you want to really unlock this the first
thing is um how um um how Banks can
directly engage and how The Regulators
see it um there are encouraging signs in
this market for example on that now and
I would really love to see a more uh
clear regulatory Clarity on that there
are other load box as well right there
is um we talked about once you put once
you are ready to regulator put money on
the Chain uh you need to know how do you
identify Contra parties and we talked
about that that is a condition that is
necessary for success and the end of the
day it need to be interoperable and
Caroline made that point uh as well so
that that is another precondition for
this to scale I think we see all of us
putting building blocks in place but
when this come together I think we can
we can really take it to the next level
I think we are in the cusp of that it'll
take years to kin's point but it yeah
there's there's no Silver Bullet it's
going to take all of us in this room and
everybody else to continue to
collaborate to build to build this new
digital ecosystem so Wall Street 2.0
isn't just going to materialize it's
it's going to take a lot of
time how much quicker do you think it
can happen now with this new regulatory
regime United States compared to four
months ago it's definitely going to
accelerate um we're already feeling the
momentum a number of us are talking
about you know the oppression we felt
last year versus this year there's
definitely more freedom to really have
the conversations I also wouldn't
underestimate the amount of Education
Ryan mentioned it I think our obligation
we operating across like a 100 plus
markets across a diversity of regulators
is to do our job job to educate right so
that takes time I do feel there is a
decent amount of that education now
that's paying forward I think the next
step though is to really think about
this from a different lens so if we're
just regulating the thing that has a
technology wrapper on it that's still
traditional with just a technology
wrapper on it what we need to be
thinking about is when we move to this
wallet infrastructure how does that
break the regulatory environment that we
exist in today and it will and it should
if it doesn't it means all we've done is
just kind of optimized on we what we had
and we just kind of incrementally made
it 20% better it goes a bit faster you
know it's not as exciting as what it
should be if we get it right it
shouldn't fit the model that we have
today because a wallet should hold many
many many things and that will break the
model we have today where we have
agencies that are split a little bit
more by asset class we should have kind
of use case driven regulatory regime
that sits and manages and is focused on
that wallet and I think that's the big
shift right the education that was done
historically was very I would say
important and narrow focused on what
does the tech do what are the risks how
do we make sure that we bring the
institutional grade controls that we
have to nadin's point we cannot afford
to get this wrong on certain parts for
example on the custody and the clearing
side that is table Stakes you need to
make sure those fundamental are in place
but now I think the next shift is like
how do you really look at this in a
different way and how do we influence
then the right amount of creative
regulatory policies that can actually
look at what should be a bigger um
disruption and a different way of
managing Capital markets yes I think
there's a cultural chift here that we
also keep need I mean we all grew up in
environments where you had the equity
team and you had the fixed income team
and you had the derivatives team right
and that doesn't work in an environment
where you've got wallets and you've got
tokens that transcend them and you've
also got middle and back offices that
probably have not evolved or changed in
in eons right so there was also a
cultural Factor here uh but we also
while we're all giddy and we could feel
the momentum let's remember that
regulations have not changed yet yes
right so we still have we still have a
way to go but I think these things are
path dependent right I mean like there's
such a massive
regulatory infrastructure both in the
United States and globally the the idea
that that going to tear itself down and
reconfigure itself around wallet it
doesn't have to it needs to evolve to
start to recognize right so while we're
working with destructive technology I
think the Innovation is unfortunately
going to be incremental for a period of
time before it catches up and T takes
off and it's happened before yep right
let's not forget that right in like
again go back to the 70s like it
happened right The Regulators were able
to come together we created Central
depositories and there was a whole
infrastructure built around that boat on
the r side and then obviously the market
infrastructure so Canon should happen
the speed at which it will happen
obviously is what none of us can predict
um but again if we're not showing up
doing our part it definitely won't
happen okay I think that's actually a
really great place to um end it thank
you all Nadine Caroline R Ryan it's been
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