The discussion centers on the perceived unconstitutional and unilateral military action against Iran, framed as a dictatorial move by the Trump administration, and its implications for democracy, alongside a critique of the administration's broader disregard for established norms and institutions.
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Um,
so hello everybody. >> Hi.
>> Hi.
>> You know, even though nothing's going
on, we thought we'd just stop in and say hi.
hi.
>> Yeah. You know, because has anything
happened? I mean, even Rosie
thinks something has happened, actually.
So, so I'm actually um in your neck of
the woods and I was up writing last
night and waiting for my copy editor and
I actually had an outline for tonight's
letter um because huge stuff is
happening the stuff with AI and all that
that desperately we need to deal with
and because I was waiting for my copy
editor I was on blue sky and at 151 the
news came and I was like
every the expletative that you think I
said I said and I'm like because I was
literally I was falling asleep like this
and and I read that and I'm like okay
here we go.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Were you up or were you uh were you
>> I was not up. Um but when I got up
before I needed to get up at like I
don't know 6:30 7 in the morning and did
the dooming thing of picking up my phone
and I'm I'm not going to be as polite as
you. picked up my phone and and said,
"What the fuck?" >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and so I've just been
trying to catch up with what just happened.
happened.
>> So people on the West Coast were like,
"Oh, the poor people on the East Coast,
they're going to wake up this." And and
I was like, "I'm awake. I'm awake." Um
so so let me tell you what jumps out to
me about um Donald Trump and his administration's
administration's
massive attack on Iran alongside Israel.
And that's that
there was no authorization of military
force. There was no attempt to explain
to the American people at all why we
would want to attack Iran. um in a state
of the union address that he gave this
week. He mentioned it around three
times. That was it. He spent most of his
time doing other stuff. And he um he has
done it when Congress is out of session
until next Monday. And this strikes me I think
think
>> on a Friday night
>> on a Friday night one or Saturday
morning 1:51 in the morning, East Coast
time anyway. So, I think there's a lot
to unpack about that, but there is very
clearly an attempt to simply declare
Congress doesn't matter at all, which
the Congress critters are out there in
front of the cameras today saying they
want to be called back into session so
they can vote on this, which I don't
think Johnson's going to do. But this
attempt to just I mean Congress is the
only body that can authorize a war and
and we've just gone to war with Congress
not even in session and that I mean this
we know he's trying to become a dictator
but this is I am a dictator in neon lights.
lights.
>> No absolutely. I mean you know
it's not as though we haven't seen it
coming. It's not as though he hasn't
done thing after thing after thing
showing that he considers himself to be
the beall and endall of power.
But when you give presidential immunity
to a raging narcissist who only sees himself
himself ever,
ever,
you are asking
not just for trouble but now for massive
death even beyond the scale of what
we've had before. I mean the degree to
which I can't even use the word
unconstitutional anymore. >> It
>> It
it's extra constitutional. It's as if
they don't have a constitution
>> there. Right. Precisely. It's it's just
basically discarding, which is what he's
been doing all along on a slightly lower
key level. Now he's just out and out
declared it. I want us to have a war.
I'm going to declare that we have a war.
Um I don't care if the American people
want it. I don't care if my base likes
it. I don't care what Congress thinks
about it despite the fact that it's
their job. There's a reason that
Congress and not the president has this
power. You don't give a single
individual the power unless there's some
dire crisis of national security. You
don't give a single person the power to
go to war. That's something that is done
by the people's representatives. There's
a reason for that in the constitution.
So on every possible level,
you know, they've been attacking,
they're already attacking voting
mechanisms and just the whole idea of
free and fair elections. Um, but this
shockingly, I don't know if I can say it
goes beyond that, but it feels as though
it does because he isn't taking himself
into war. He's taking the nation into
war. And the people who are gonna pay
this price financially and in any other
way, that's going to be us.
>> The the whole piece of his video where
he said, "Yeah, people are going to die,
but it's worth it." It's like, "Well,
hang on just a second here. Let's get uh
Baron out there doing this."
>> Exactly. Do
>> you know I I um I have been mad since I
So, I went to bed and slept in a little
bit today and I've been madly, of
course, reading ever since. And of all
the commentary that came out, um, there
is a very short video by Jason Crows, a
representative from Colorado, who who
deployed three times with the Army
Rangers in Iraq and Afghanistan. And
it's worth, if you haven't seen it, it's
worth looking at because he just looks
haunted. He looks like he aged 25 years
overnight. And he's like, he didn't talk
about what you and I are talking about
at all. Um, he just said
he's a working-class kid. He went into
the army because he he had you know he
didn't he needed the money and he said
you know these guys are out there
planning these wars and it's
workingclass people who are going to pay
for them and and you could see in the
video that while certainly he means
everything you talked about the look on
his face was like I saw my friends die
and and you know it's only about a
minute long but wow it's it encapsulates
the scene from whatever that movie is
where the king says, "Some of you are
going to die, but that's okay with me."
You know,
>> I actually don't know a popular culture
reference coming from Heather. That's shocking.
shocking.
>> Well, I probably did it really badly.
Somebody should put it in the notes.
It's It's a cartoon thing where King I
think it's King John maybe goes, "A lot
of you are going to die, but I'm
comfortable with that." Or something
like that.
>> King John is it like Robin Hood or
>> No, I'm not very good at it. You know,
it's not my fault.
>> I have to say, by the way, it is it is
cracking me up that you know, Ro uh
Rosie is close to you today, which she
usually isn't when we do this. And she
picks up that you're angry because every
time you talk, she's like,
"Not like that, but I moved her away.
She's not in my bedroom, but she's
actually around the corner."
>> But she's mad. She's big mad.
>> She's really mad. So, yes, she is
picking up on the vibe. And I support
Rosie the resistance bird. Um, screaming
at the top of her little lungs. >> So,
>> So,
so um, now you got me thinking about
birds lungs. I guess I never thought
about birds having lungs, but they must,
right? Okay.
That's right. Remember, I didn't know
hummingbirds had feet. Um, uh, but you
said something really smart about the
state of the union. Um, which I think
matters here. So, can you walk people
through what you noticed about the State
of the Union that I certainly didn't. I
was looking I I thought it was sort of
game show and an admission that >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> going to try and win this election.
They're just hoping to flood the zone
with so much money that they can buy it
the same way they did in 2024. But you
noticed something different about it.
>> I did. I did. Um
>> someone said it's Lord Lord Farquar from Shrek.
Shrek.
want to know that.
>> Okay. So, so here we go. The one movie
>> This is a moment. This this moment has
maybe never happened before, but um
about the State of the Union um what so
what struck me was so there were um
three parts of three aspects of the
State of the Union, right? There were
the lies and gross exaggerations with
the first big chunk. Um, and there was a
here are a bunch of people who we really
kind of hate together and the Somali and
the Democrats, etc., etc., etc., was
another part of it. And then the
applause, the the borrowed applause was
another part of it. But if you think
about the string of people that he
called in, and I'm not saying it's bad
to praise military people who have given
sacrifices, that's fine. to an extreme
degree. It would be interesting to see
how many minutes of that one hour and 48
minute address were spent with military
figure after military figure after
military figure being brought up in
front of Congress and the nation and
wildly applauded. He was glorifying the
military. He was he was pulling the
military out there so that we could all
applaud. Yay military while he was
planning what just happened.
that to me, you know, again, I don't
want to credit him with uh being a savvy
politician, but he was having a a praise
the military moment as he was planning a
military attack. And you're right, he
said like two sentences about Iran. Um,
but as he did that and lied, that's what
he was doing.
>> Well, and now that once you said that,
that puts a whole different spin on him
saying, "I want the Medal of Honor." and
which I I have to say I I feel quite
profoundly about the Medal of Honor
because it's a huge deal of course in
the Wounded Knee Massacre but um but as
a result of that I actually know quite a
bit about the Medal of Honor and the
since World War II getting the Medal of
Honor and getting is the wrong word.
being honored with the Medal of Honor,
being a recipient of the Medal of Honor is
is
the stuff those people do um is it is it
is unfathomable. You can read the people
who have gotten the Medal of Honor since
World War II and certainly recently. And
like there there's a handful, literally
just a handful of them. And for him to
be like, I should get that too. And then
even to give it to the guy who got it
for the whatever he did in in Venezuela
and um I mean maybe he did or maybe he
didn't but usually the pro something
that that was that was that was that
worthy but usually
being honored with the Medal of Honor is
a yearslong
thing and you've got to have all sorts
of people signing off on it and so on
and so forth. And here you've got this
guy within I think it's within a month
of the the operation he just hands one out.
out.
>> Oh, sure. because he's praising himself
and the Venezuelan attack, right? So, so
it wasn't about actually that guy. Maybe
he did something wonderful. I'm not
saying he didn't, but the reason for
picking him was because it was Venezuela
and it makes him look good. The other
thing that's obvious, but needs to be
said is he doesn't understand what honor is.
is.
A medal of honor. Honor is something you
earn. It's something that shows that um
in some in this sense civic and um
sort of an allbeeing way you have put
yourself above the mass of humanity to
do a good act, a noble act, and you've
done it for no reason of self-promotion
or glory or gain. Honor means something.
That's why there's so few
>> because it's not just you're you're a
military hero, have a medal or have an
award. If you're winning a medal of
honor, it means you have placed yourself
even above your military culpatriots,
right? It it means something that was
essentially in the way that he did it
stripped it of that meaning.
>> Well, which is one of the reasons I'm so
opposed to the
the medals of honor for the people who
participated in the moody massacre. And
I won't go down that rabbit hole, but um
but like I say, at least once a year on
the anniversary of the creation of the
Medal of Honor, I tend to read through
the citations for people who have gotten
the Medal of Honor in the last hundred
years. And you just, you know, all of
them have earn earned that honor like
you say with just extraordinary behavior
um at you know sometimes the loss of
life their own lives but certainly at I mean
mean
>> not just heroics right it's not just
heroics it's the spirit of the act and
the meaning of the act that's what
elevates someone who gets a medal of honor
honor
>> so Um,
so I, you know, there's a number of ways
that I would love to go with this
discussion. Is there anything that jumps
out on the face of this attack that or
where I mean I guess maybe this is a
place to go is that um I think it is
astonishing that we have not talked
about the fact that um much that uh the
reason that Trump is arguing that Iran
is a threat to the United States is
because of nucle the development of
nuclear weapons. He's the one who pulled
out of the the JCPOC, which was the
agreement that that everybody but him
said was working to keep
>> created by
>> Exactly. Go ahead, >> Obama.
>> Obama.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Obama negotiated that and I think 2018
Trump pulled us out of that negotiation
that was aimed at limiting what Iran
could do in the realm of garnering
creating nuclear force. And Trump in
2018 pulled us out of that and imposed
sanctions on Iran. Like, oh yeah, well,
we're just going to punish you for not
doing the right thing. Which, of course,
that's his Trump's mindset. I'm going to
do mean things to you and then you're
going to do what I want.
Works really well. Well, and then, you
know, theoretically his the last time he
attacked Iran, remember it was nobody
was supposed to say that he hadn't in
fact knocked everything out. Remember,
he's like, "That's it. they lost it all
and now here we are saying well we're
going to attack them because they could
get it back.
>> I mean so there there are those
>> said that I mean has he even said we
could get it back or is he just ignoring
the fact that he just declared that it
was all eliminated? Is has he just
thrown that aside and he's just
>> he's not Yeah, we're not we're that
that's just that's just absolutely
thrown completely to the side.
>> Yeah. Um but so so one of the things
that has been I think very clear to me
for a while now is that the
administration is is deeply troubled.
You know the cabinet members are
fighting with each other. They're
incompetent. I mean we could go down
that. We could talk a lot about that.
But I'm sorry the elephant in the room
here is the Epstein files and the fact
that just uh this week and I forget
which day. I think it was Wednesday, the
news broke that in the files, not only
is there the issue of the file that's
been held back, the two files that have
been held back, that cross referencing
with the Gileain Maxwell trial suggests
that were taken very seriously there,
that Trump had in fact sexually
assaulted two 13year-old girls. That
there are accusations of that. But to
me, as much as that is horrific, the
thing that that I I suspect was a real
of real concern for the administration
was that um the news from the files that
starting in um 2010, the
the
um drug enforcement agency, the wing of
that that looks at money laundering, the
Russian mafia and crossborder
uh criminal activity had opened an
investigation into Epstein and 14 co-conspirators
co-conspirators
and it was so taken extraordinarily
seriously and it was open for 5 years at
least the last we know of it because
from this document was 2015 and Ron
Widen that um fabulous senator from
Oregon immediately wrote to the DEA and
said uh first of all why is this
redacted because it wasn't a secret memo
it's It's I think it's a I won't say how
many pages it is. It's a many page memo.
First of all, it it shouldn't have been
redacted in the Epstein files because
the law is that you can't redact
anything other than um the names of the
the girls and and all that. Um so we got
an issue there with illegality, but what
the absolute
crap is going on with this that we don't
know about this and what happened to the
what happened to all that? This is the
first time that we have explicitly seen
uh drug trafficking
as part of the Epstein world and we also
know that Trump is part of that world.
So you know I
>> every you know the number of um you know
when you have a scandal of this
magnitude that's global and that
involves elite and powerful people all
over the world and that in other parts
of the world people are getting punished
or fired or are resigning and here you
know people are beginning to step back
in one way or another. That's all kind
of recent news. And then you know the
information coming out as you're saying
about things that are even more dire
than we had evidence of, we may have
suspected than we had evidence of
before. Yeah. It's not a surprise,
right, that that those things have
recently happened and here we are. I'm
not going to take credit for this, but I
saw online so he has branded uh this
attack epic fury and there are folks
online calling it Epstein fury. Well,
well, yeah, because what this says is we
we there are certainly suspicions and
Epstein himself talked about Trump's
relationship to this that Trump's
real estate in in uh Florida was
connected to money laundering. Well,
this was what the investigation was into
was drug trafficking. They called it
prostitution and moneyaundering. And you
know I have all you know I have always
said that the there there is you know
you know me follow the money that
there's a real money issue here and that
that that that
DEA story is probably going to fall by
the wayside under this new attack on
Iran. and and that, you know, I I I one
of the things I hope you and I will talk
about is ways to to for ordinary people
to push back on this and and that I
think is going to have to, you know,
keeping the Epstein stuff front and
center. You know, even Homer out there
yesterday saying, "Well, Bill Clinton
exonerated Trump." He didn't. I mean,
according to the the Democrats who were
there who who can't speak because of the
rules of the um of the committee, which
will jeopardize their committee seats.
um said that's that's actually not what
happened. You know, hang on with that
one. Wait till you get the transcript, >> right?
>> right?
>> Um so that sort of tail wagging the dog
thing and Epstein and and the fact that
it just feels like that whole mountain
is starting to crumble.
>> Right. Right. Which it really does. I
also want to make the point related to
this but not growing directly from it
that apparently he is watching what's
happening and and whatever role he is
playing in organizing and running this
from Mara Lago.
>> I was just going to say that
>> is not at the White House. There wasn't
like, oh, we're going to war. I'd better
get to Washington
where everybody is, where I can be at
the center of action, where I have
facilities and resources at my disposal.
No, I'm going to stay home in Mara Lago
in Florida and do what I want here. And
I think I read somewhere he's having a
million-doll a plate dinner tonight or
some ridiculous thing. He's
>> I'm sure he's fundraising off this,
>> right? Shouldn't say that because I I
haven't seen a single story about that, but
but
>> No, that Yeah, he is. Right. So it's
like sometimes I I feel like the gods
are yelling at us. Like this is a case
in which you know the gods of of honor
and and righteous fury are yelling at us
and saying come on he's at his house
he's not even bothering to go to
Washington. Like on how many ways can we
signal he is not thinking about anything
but himself
>> that I'm sorry I'm back there with Lord
Farquar a lot of you are going to die
but I can live with that or Farquad I'm
sorry a you know people are going to die
but that's
>> you know you little people
>> that's yes
>> and that and again that contrast with uh
with representative Crow just looking like
like >> right
>> right
>> you know
>> right right
No. Um, but like you know, we're finding
plenty to talk about here, but on and
it's I don't want to say not unexpected,
but it's of a piece with other things
that he has been doing, but on a certain
level, I I feel speechless.
>> Yeah. And and again, the feel
speechless. And you know, my fury at the
Republican senators has been building
now for more than a year. And a number
of them said he just won't do this
because this is an impeachable offense.
>> And you know,
>> he just declared that Congress doesn't matter.
matter. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> He just said their job going to war.
>> Who cares? He just eliminated them
>> from mattering. I mean,
>> and and and I haven't again, I've only
been reading the news for about 45
minutes, so maybe it's there. I'm seeing
a lot of Democrats out there saying,
"What the absolute, you know, f. We need
to be in Congress today voting on this."
I have not seen a single commentary from
a representative except a uh I'm sorry,
from a lawmaker, Republican lawmaker.
I've seen a commentary from a a a
lawmaker that is no longer in office
cheering him on u because they're anti-
Iran. What would happen
if Democratic lawmakers
came back to Washington went into effect
right now?
>> Oh. Oh, I've already I Yeah, absolutely.
>> That should happen.
>> They should They should be on the on the
They won't be gabbled in, so they can't
do anything.
>> But they should be on the spot, unlike
our president.
>> They should be on the spot. That's right.
right.
>> And and you want to talk about
performative displays and like, you
know, are you going to stand up
Democrats? you know, shame on you for
not standing up at my declaration about
us not protecting, you know, illegal
aliens or whatever else he said. And he
that was clearly just a performative
moment. You want another performative
moment? Well, this would have meaning
and impact and importance. It also would
have I don't want to say visual because
we wouldn't see it. It would be a
performative moment that shows
something. The Democrats were going to
war and the Democrats are on site and
ready to see what they can do in this
moment, which is where all lawmakers
should be right now.
>> Well, it's what happened after the
assassination of President Lincoln. The
Congress was literally not in session
then. They had to be called, they should
have been called back into a special
session and um and they all rushed to
Washington, right?
>> And Johnson was like, "No, I'm good."
So, they just sat there. They I mean,
they didn't just sit there. They had
meetings. They talked to press and all
that but but they were on site um
ineffectual and furious about that but
on site.
>> Let's go back to what you mentioned
before though about what people can do
to push back. I do want to mention and I
know nothing about this but I I I
immediately went to see what's happening
in New York and there is a um protest
happening at Times Square at 2 p.m. in
New York City. Um, I know nothing about
it, but it's it's being plastered all
over the place. But what can people Oh,
go ahead.
>> Are you going to go?
>> I want to go. Um, I'm not sure if if I'm
absolutely healthy enough to go. Um, I
would like to go and and I'm I'm kind of
dying to go, but I haven't decided
whether I should go.
>> Okay. So, so I was just going to say
I'll meet you there.
>> Oh, totally.
If we could if we could, right? Well,
why don't we I could
>> Well, you and I we can talk about that after.
after.
>> Talk about it after. Okay. I'm sorry
because that's all morning I've been like
like
so we'll figure it out. But um
>> Well, you know, I'm scared of crowds. So,
So,
>> you're scared of crowds, right?
right?
>> We could have a good 10 minutes of it.
But anyway, we'll talk about it. We'll
talk about it after. Um so, what what do
we say for folks who are saying, "What
can we do?" Okay. So, I do have ideas
about this, but but before we get to
them, can I just run something by you?
Like, this is this is a this is a at
this point, it's not Democrats. This is
anybody who's trying to protect >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> democracy. And when this has happened in
the past,
>> there's been a term for those people who
are trying to destroy us.
>> So, it's I don't know who it is in the
revolution. Who is it in the revolution?
Do they have a term for that? trying to
destroy us like Tories.
>> Yeah. So they call them the Tories.
>> Yeah. I mean they were aligning with the
other side I suppose.
>> Okay. So then you get the slave power in
the 1850s. You get the robber barons in
the 1890s. You get the malifactors of
great wealth in the in the 20th century.
And I've been trying to come up with a
name that isn't the Epstein class
because I liked that at first but on the
right it's becoming crazy uh
anti-semitic and I we just can't.
>> Yeah. It's bad. Don't don't play over
there. So, um >> Huh.
>> Huh.
>> How about how about the vampire class?
>> Cuz they're living off us. They're
sucking us dry.
>> They are. But when you move into blood
sucker, you're tiptoeing towards anti-semitic.
anti-semitic. Um
Um
>> really, I thought the vamp I thought we
could get away with vampires. We can't
>> um the I mean, I'm not even going to go
into the levels of anti-semitic stuff.
>> I thought I had it.
>> I know that that's good.
Then we could do um you know uh Abraham
Lincoln Vampire Hunter.
>> Oh, that's where your mind goes. Um I
mean maybe that would work.
>> Well, what I'm trying to do is come up
with a way to say this. Like Robert
Barren was great, but we did that
already. Maybe we could do that again.
Um, but you need a term like that that isn't
isn't
um u that does that can't be opened up
to the anti-semitism or you know any of
the the marginalized groups. And I
thought you know the vampires are
probably safe.
>> Yeah. Which safer than some of the other
options going through my mind right now. Um
Um
this is a good one. Like I like normally
I'm pretty good at coming up with like
zippy things. Somebody's saying the
parasite class. Um, no, Cabal is also
anti-Semitic. Um, uh, the ticks. I like
that. But
there corporate wealth capitalist class.
No, not capitalist class. Robert Baron's
glutton. Not elites. Um, maggots. >> Pardon?
>> Pardon?
>> Ghoul gang. This is great. Vampire
fascist. We just
>> maggots. Oh, wow. All right. I I was
just hoping you would say yes. Vampire class.
class.
class. Is that too taken? Are we too
used to saying
>> also so dehumanizing though? That's
calling people
>> Oh, that's true. I don't want to do that.
that.
>> Calling people bugs.
>> No, I Yeah.
>> Piggy. The piggy. The greedy class. The
piggy class. >> Piggy.
>> Piggy.
>> Piggy. The piggy class.
>> Piggy people.
>> What's that?
>> The piggy people.
The piggy class. Um.
>> All right. Well, this is this is this is
maybe not the best use of our time. Um
because people do have to pretend they
have lives. Um
>> um I mean you all may have lives. I
pretend I have a life. Um um what we can
do. So here's what I would say there. So
a couple of things. First of all,
Timothy Snyder who you know your former
colleague who studies authoritarianism
makes the big point that in order to
consolidate power a fascist needs a
popular war and it needs a fascist needs
Americans to die in that war. And um and
one of the things to do is and and
Americans don't want this war uh across
the board. It's
>> hasn't even considered that
>> only about 27% of Americans liked this
idea. Now today the Republicans are
going to start to love it. But
continuing to speak out against it and
to say this sort of stuff we're talking
about. He didn't consult with anybody.
The Epstein, you know, continuing to
make sure this does not become a popular
war no matter what happens. And to focus
on the bad side is one thing. But, you
know, my big thing these days, aside
from flooding the zone, because it's
also very clear, like I say, they're
just planning to throw money at this
election and and flood the zone with
mega crap. Pushing back against that is
really important. But I'm becoming more
and more eager to force the
administration to drop somebody in the
inner circle whether that's Steve Steven
Miller is my choice but you know Christy
Gnome you know any one of those Cash
Patel any one of those people around him
um because he is clearly keeping them as
shields from the American people and he
doesn't want to let them go you know he
he absolutely doesn't want to get them
let them go heath whomever
And I think continuing to to single them
out like the weak ones in the herd and
to pull them down. Every one of those
that we can get out of the
administration weakens him. And
>> go ahead.
>> One of the things that bothers me is
that you know Cash Patel for example is
all over the news for taking the FBI
private jet to the Olympics and partying
in the whole thing. That's out of the
news now,
>> right? And I think we got to hammer, you
know, those all of them, but certainly
to find one and hammer that person and
see if we can get at least one knocked
out because that weakens him and then we
can go after another because that next
one's not going to be as strong. But,
you know, sort of fighting the big
fights just in a way strengthens him
because the magaz jump on board and say,
"Oh, I love my president or I love the
war." Whereas not a lot of people are
going to say, "I love Christy Gnome." I
I think that's true. My concern is in
the same way that in Minneapolis they
said, "We're withdrawing people. We're
holding back." And then they they may
have withdrawn some people, but they're
still in full force attacking people in
Minneapolis. Couldn't they just say,
"Okay, we've let go of the bad egg and
look, we listen to you." And then they
keep doing whatever the heck they want
to do. So, in other words, couldn't they
pretend that letting a weak link go?
Well, they could, but better out than
in, right?
>> Well, that's true. That's true. Um I
suppose, you know, I do think, you know,
you said we need to um make sure this is
not a popular war. It isn't a popular
war. We don't have to make anything,
right? We just have to
>> We just have to speak up. No one Not
only is it not a popular war, he didn't
even bother to justify it. He didn't
care. He doesn't care what Americans
think, what Congress thinks. He just
wants what he wants. And you know, so
yeah, I I think advertising the fact
that this is a causeless war, that
Americans don't want, whatever way we
can find to say that. So I agree with
what your idea of attacking the weak
link to at least make some kind of a
difference at a moment when certainly
there's going to be vulnerability
because going to war immediately they're
going to need support from somewhere.
But I don't know. I think I think also
um making it clear in any way that we
can that this is not remotely a popular
war. It's a causeless war caused by one
man's greed and ego.
>> Yeah. 100%. Um, and like you say, we're
already there. I I will say the numbers
will pop up today. I'm not looking at
any numbers, by the way, but I'm just
going to tell you this will bring out
Trump supporters going, "Yeah, he's
finally going to take care of this
issue." You know, like mission
accomplished, right? It will not be a
popular uh war as Iran retaliates. you
know, as people say, you know, Iran has
been significantly weakened in the last
few years, but it's not uh uh I think he
has this fantasy that this that people
in Iran are, you know, weak. Uh the
military is weak like Iraq was. And I,
you know, the that's just not the world
we're living in. And what we're going to
see in the short term almost certainly
is attacks on US bases. Particularly
though given that I mean what I read
this morning, you may be better informed
about this than me, that they bombed a school.
school. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That they killed children.
>> Yes. Yes. A lot of them. A lot of them. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> And somebody said, you know, back in the
80s, somebody said, "Did my did I did my
tax dollars just kill innocents?" And um
and the answer to that is yes. I mean,
the last thing you want to do in Iran is
kill children, you know. Um, so yeah,
just continuing to highlight that and
pushing back. You know, one of the
things that frustrates the hell out of
me in our society is that
the people who spoke out against the
Iraq war, which by the way, we tend to
put the Iraq and Afghanistan wars
together, and they're really very, very
different wars, but people who spoke out
against the the regime change in Iraq,
remember how incredibly um attacked they
were. And, you know, and of course, they
were right. They were right across the
board. And no, first of all, I'm sure
people are who opposed it are, you know,
like me in so many ways awaiting our
lavish apologies.
But one of the things that you want in
this moment is to protect those people
and to be one of the ones speaking up so
that people don't get afraid to say,
"What the absolute f are you doing here?"
here?"
Um and that that that becomes the
dominant in this moment especially in today
today
that that's the dominant reaction rather
than stepping back and sort of saying uh
how is this going to play saying I'll
tell you how it's going to play it sucks
um right now because that will determine
media coverage that will determine the
way politicians jump fast and so on. So
rapid response saying this is not okay
is um is I think a really big deal.
>> I agree in every way possible
>> and sharing you know sharing the the the
videos of people um and and the many
many times that JD Vance for example
said under no circumstances you know
this is why I'm supporting Trump is
because he won't take us into foreign
wars. He had a an op-ed in the Wall
Street Journal and today Marjorie Taylor
Green actually said you freaking lied to
us. this is, you know, amplify the crap
out of that stuff.
>> Yeah. No, absolutely. I on all counts.
Um, in every way that we can. It's not
Will it create dramatic change? I don't
know. Will it throw sand in the gears?
Um, will it have an impact of some kind?
Hopefully. Yeah.
>> Oh, I wouldn't even say hopefully. I
would say absolutely. Okay. I'm hearing
the mobster class and I'm hearing the
predator class.
>> Oh, I kind of like the predator class.
Although my favorite something went by
somebody said the vulture class and
somebody said which and I'm on your team
I like vultures
>> which I do too. I mean and vultures and
buzzards are are
>> during when we were doing now and then
and I said really quietly to myself I
>> Um anyway, okay. Maybe maybe the
predator class.
>> Yeah, that that might that might work.
It's hard. It's It's a lot of letters is
the thing.
>> It is. It is. And the mobster class
isn't quite it.
>> Although, yeah, I mean, people are
increasingly talking about the fact we
essentially have an organized criminal
ring in the middle of our running our
government. And I think that I think
that's one of the reasons that recent
Epstein report is such a big deal is
that it basically says, "Hey, wait a
minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
All these rumors about Epstein being
invol involved in um in organized crime,
maybe there's something to that." Um,
>> at this point, who who knows? I know.
>> Well, you know what the and actually I'm
glad you put it that way because I think
these things are important to figure out
how to fight back against them. But the
bottom line, and this is your territory,
we just have to push these people off
the stage and take this country back
ourselves. And in the 250th anniversary
of the Declaration of Independence, man,
we got a freaking blueprint.
>> The revolution was a popular revolution.
And by that I mean the people.
The people. The people. Without the
people that would have been a sad scary
thing. So yeah. Um I totally think that
um in ways that we haven't registered
yet, we the people along the lines of
everything we said this morning, we the
people have immense power
to affect the the ethos, the dynamics
and and actually to make change that
way. And yes, in this year, our 250th
anniversary of the Declaration of
Independence, um, we have a blueprint.
We have like tools that people use. We
have the spirit of protecting and
defending rights that tyrants, their
word, are taking away. Um, that's
another useful thing that could be
happening this year, too, in ways that I
certainly never imagined as I saw this
year coming. Um, here we are.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean honestly and and I
know we need to go but honestly in a way
this is um you know the universe plays a
lot of tricks on us. I I have thought as
you and I both have talked for a long
time about the different ways in which
we could celebrate the 250th and and I I
think in my head we were celebrating the
history. you know, we were highlighting
the history. And now, and you think
about it, the way we're really
celebrating the 250th is by reclaiming
the control of our government from those
who would use it against us. And so, in
a way, we're honoring the 250th.
In reality, instead of saying, "Oh,
those people in the past were good,"
we're sort of saying in this moment, we
need to be the founders of a new
country. They revolted, excuse me, for
good government. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They didn't revolt against the idea of
government. They revolted for good
government. And the first thing that
these states did when they were throwing
off the British Empire, they immediately
began to create state governments.
It was a revolution for good government,
not a revolution against government. And
you're right, that's an important point.
Well, and and the um one of the things
that we are seeing in this time is the
state governments are doing great stuff.
I mean the
>> bad stuff, but yes, great stuff.
>> Well, but the the democratic state
governments are, you know, they have
they they can't join the World Health
Organization themselves because you have
to be an autonomous state. But they have
they're cooperating in every ways that
they can and they're finding ways to do
new housing and they're you know they're
they're becoming the think tanks that
they were in the progressive era which I
find really really interesting. I I was
very impressed by um by uh Illinois uh
Governor JB Pritsker's speech to the
state of the state, but also, you know,
he's done all this fabulous stuff for
Illinois. And when he came in, I think
it was eight years ago, the Republican
governor before him had been such a
disaster that state bonds were like just
above junk bonds. And Pritsker has
managed to sort of bring the entire
state, the manufacturing, the education,
everything way up while he repaired
their economics as well, their finances
as well. And I'm like, you know, boy,
wouldn't that be nice to have in the
White I mean, not him. I'm not in,
believe me, I'm not endorsing him at all
or anybody at this point. It's way too
early for that. But I thought, you know,
this is basically how you try out new
ways to do government and
>> Right. And
>> absolutely. And
you know, in a sense, but I in this
moment with, you know, the state of the
union being declared by someone who
really isn't that doesn't care much
about the state of the union, the union
itself is reforming in interesting ways.
And the fact that states are coming
together, blue states are coming
together to cooperate, to figure out
ways to help people and make things
work. You're right, that's absolutely
noteworthy. that that's like um a new
way of thinking about union being
created by force
and I think whatever happens going
forward that's going to be really important.
important.
>> So I hate to say goodbye to you because
I I'm um you know I'm very um not
distracted really today but very much in
a WTF moment and it's just nice to be
with friends. Well, yeah,
>> but it but it is a little bit ironic. It
seems to me that and and I suspect I can
speak for you here, but I won't. Like we
did not go into history to be making it.
Like like when I think about what I do,
I think about when I was in graduate
school, I worked in this underground
library where nobody else was ever there
um except there were like three people
who would show up, an occasional
student. One of the people who always
showed up is John Updike. I never spoke
to him
and and Bud Balin. Bud Balin came down a
lot and um and Eric Arnerson who's now
at George George Washington um and but
we never really spoke. Anyway, there was
a little carol and it was cinder block.
There was a little carol and the walls
were institutional yellow and so you
could sit there in the little carol and
I would have the congressional record,
the books of the congressional record
lined up on the top of the carol and I
would just sit there and I would read
the congressional record and I was so happy.
happy.
I'll give you my equivalent. Um, at UVA
where I got my PhD in the basement of
the library were like antiquated
machines for antiquated technologies and
the microcard readers were there. The
micro card is like a big index card with
tiny tiny like an an entire year of a
newspaper on one little card. So if you
sneeze and it moves, you've just lost a
decade. So, I would sit I would sit in
the basement with the microcard reader
and I kid you not, the machine didn't
really work and it tended to slide. I'm
going to demonstrate. I would sit with
my knee up holding the tray while while
I typed on my computer and I was like,
I'm getting the good stuff. I'm getting the
the
So, yeah, this is this is not what we
thought we were training for. Um, but
yeah, here we are. Well, so so here's
the here's the the the assignment then
for everybody here. Let's take back this
country so that Joanna and I can go back
to the basement and read the stuff that
nobody else wants to read and you know
and then knock off at 8 o'clock at night
and you can have a martini and I can
have a glass of wine and we can feast on
M&M's. Although you don't eat M&M's.
>> Yep. I don't eat M&M's.
I everywhere I travel, not only do I eat
by M&M's every trip, I photograph them
and post them sometimes.
>> I don't know if I've missed that. Okay,
so we'll eat peanut M&M's because
they're healthier than the other guys.
>> They're healthier.
>> We'll start with We'll start with the
pretzel M&M's as an appetizer. We'll
move on to the peanut M&Ms.
>> Pretzel ones are my This isn't the worst
it could get M&M's, but
>> we did not know we had M&M bonding until
this moment, Heather.
>> There you go. There you go. So, I guess
something good has come out of this moment.
moment.
>> Anyway, let's you and I talk about um
after we're done about what's coming. Um
and um in the meantime, uh everybody who
showed up here for this um it's
wonderful that you're here because more
than anything else, what matters is that
people are engaged and involved and they
want to know what's happening. And
that's this.
>> Amen. And I guess keep the faith.
>> Keep the faith. I, you know, I do this
thing at night, not every night. A few
thoughts for those who can't sleep. And
I did that along the lines of what you
just said earlier. I know you want to
call it Freeman Freeman dark. I'm sorry.
>> Everyone is calling it that. Um, but I
did that because I didn't know if I
would be able to sleep in this climate.
So, we are all in that in that space.
Um, and it really helps uh to be with
people who you can talk to about what
seems extreme and unacceptable of what
is unacceptable and extreme.
>> Yeah, that's very well put. It helps to
be with people who see it the same way.
And and again, we're in the majority,
but we are not in control of the levers
of government. So, we have to find a way
to get back into control of the levers
of government.
>> Yes. Okay. We had an extra long edition
this morning, but it was well merited.
>> That's because I don't want to leave. I
just like then we got to go back to
work. But anyway, we you're right. We
have to. So, um,
>> thank you for being here everybody and
and thank you Joanne for everything.
>> Likewise. Even Rosie had a lot to say
today and she's in with the rest of us
here too. Thank you as ever, Heather.
Um, I love you.
>> Yeah, you know, we couldn't be doing it
alone, could we? You
You
>> too, Joanne. Okay.
>> Thank you for being here, everybody.
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