guidance in the chat section, so please stay tuned. And
without further ado, thank you very much team.
Forward. Thank you very much Alejandro.
Good morning everyone, and thank you for joining
this monthly webinar we're hosting
from BHR. And as
Alejandro mentioned, the topic we're going
to address is related to employee
employee
profit sharing. We know that for the
purposes of legal entities,
the annual declaration should have already been filed,
and with it comes the
obligation to distribute profits. And
for individuals who
also have employees under their care, we
still have six days to
file the annual return. eh and with
and and with that also the deadline for the
payment of profits, right? So
here we are going to touch on some
relevant topics. That's why there's also the
payroll department. It's the area that specializes in these
payments, in these calculations and payments of the
PTU, but there are also
relevant considerations that must be taken into account,
such as these social security issues.
What's happening with the PTU in terms
of social security? There are some
controversies when they say, "Hey, I
make advance PTU payments, how should they be
treated, etc." And finally, we will
look at very specific topics regarding the
tax effects of PTU,
such as how it is integrated, if there are some who
still tell us that it is an expense, it
is not an expense, eh, what is this, why, eh,
why does my declaration or
provisional payment show an eighth of what I should have paid,
paid,
etc., right? Let's see some
very relevant characteristics. It's
too much information, but we'll try to
talk about all of this in about 45 minutes,
and we'll leave a small
space of 10 to 15 minutes maximum for
questions and answers, right? Uh,
anyway, as Alejandro rightly mentioned
, there's our chat where
you can also express any
questions or comments about this. So,
without further ado, I would like,
Vero, Said, for you to share with us a little bit
about how this obligation is generated and
what the theoretical framework is, the legal framework
that concerns
workers' profit sharing and
everything that entails, right? Because the
truth is that it is something operationally very
important and we also have to
consider that many say, "The new
changes to the PTU are not so
new anymore because
this issue of caps has been around for quite a few years. So,
what could you tell us about this?
about this?
Thank you, good morning. Well, as we
know, uh, the PTU comes from when it
is a
constitutional right and is enshrined in
Article 123 of the Federal
Labor Law. It is a right that
workers have to participate in
profits and as such it helps us
to increase
productivity and the permanence of
workers as well.
So, well, this is not new,
this has been going on for many decades.
Today we have the distribution, well, this
is where they participate with 10% of the profits.
Good. Uh, I think this is an
issue, well, as mentioned, it is not something
something
new. As Vero mentioned,
the
distribution of the PTU begins to be regulated since the Constitution and well, uh,
we started with the law with the con The
Constitution, then comes the
Federal Labor Law, and they
begin to tell us, right?
When and what the amount is that
should be distributed. To begin with, well,
the profit for distribution
must be 10% of the
taxable income given for
income tax purposes. And within
the changes, right? As
mentioned, Article 127, Section 8, sets
a maximum limit for us to be able to distribute it to
workers, right? It could be three
months of the daily salary or the
average of the PTU received in the
last three years. Of these two, the one that is
more favorable to the worker, and in
some cases, it is also
capped at one month's salary for some
companies and for some workers. And
workers. And
if you allow me, well, we
also know that this distribution is
done in two parts: 50% is
carried out, uh, generally or
equally, based on days worked, and the other
50% is based on the
earned salary. Considering this, in the
case of unionized workers and
confidential personnel, this is capped
at the salary of the unionized worker with the
highest income plus 20%. We
also know that there are companies that don't
have unionized workers
or operational personnel. How do we
consider this cap? Well, we have to
find the worker who meets those
characteristics to be able to
cap it. Now,
regarding the days worked, it is
understood that the law tells us that there are
exceptions in the case of
pregnant women who take
postpartum leave, those
workers who had
temporary disability due to
occupational hazards, and those working fathers
who also took
paternity leave. These
workers, even if they were
absent, are considered
productive days,
so they are not excluded or reduced
from the part of the days
worked. Now, if we talk about
absenteeism, unpaid leave,
or general illness leave
, well, these must be
subtracted from the calculation. of those days.
When we talk about salary, the law
tells us that it must be based on the
daily salary, which is very
important to consider. Well, there,
no other income can be included
unless they are workers with
variable salaries, in which case they are treated differently.
Well, it also mentions who is
entitled to this participation?
Well, all workers who
were under the employment of
an employer and who worked during the
fiscal year and who have remained at least
60 days in the year, but it
only speaks to us in the case of
temporary workers. This is a very interesting fact
because temporary workers have
another characteristic from the rest of the
workers. That is, the law
establishes types of workers and
contracts that are by time,
by unit of time. So,
temporary workers refers to those who
are temporary. Those who
had to cover some activity or
some project, or even
farm workers, are
considered temporary workers.
All other workers,
regardless of the number of days they
have worked, are part of the
distribution, whether it's less than 60 days, 5,
10, 20. The days worked
count and are part of the right
Yes, but many regarding
contracts. Uh, an important issue here
, right? Or controversial
that suddenly arises in
daily practice is knowing if a
worker I'm hiring with a
trial period or for an
initial training period, knowing if they are considered a
permanent employee or,
uh, temporary, right? According to
what the Federal Labor Law establishes,
and employment relationships for an
indefinite period subject to a
period, right? Whether it's a trial period or
initial training,
the different criteria that
the authority has adopted, in this case the Ministry of
Labor and
Social Welfare, do specifically indicate
that these types of
employment relationships are considered permanent.
Therefore, from day one, they are
already generating the right to
be subject to profit sharing.
profit sharing.
No, this is a very
important point to consider in this part of
who does have the right to distribution
and who isn't.
So Another important point is that the
company is required to
disseminate this information to all
workers, and in the case of
unionized workers, to present them with a
copy of the annual declaration
indicating whether or not there was a profit.
So, this part is very important:
dissemination. Especially for those
companies that have
operational personnel, they do have to
comply with certain protocols. There
are quite a few of them, but the
most important thing is to disseminate this information
and have their joint commission. We
already have this.
Yes, even here, if you'll let me
share this a little bit, this situation
is very relevant because there is
a period during which
workers or unions
can complain to the commission and
to certain authorities regarding
whether or not they agree, whether they
agree, sorry, with the payment
of the PTU that is being determined, right? So,
So,
this part that Vero mentioned is very important here, because if
we, as employers, don't disseminate
the annual declaration for the
fiscal year, we are in default. Any
situation, so now we
give the workers the power to
complain that there is no dissemination and
therefore we are not complying with
the provisions established in the
Federal Labor Law, because it is also
very important to know that, well, this
PTU payment must be
made within 60 days of the date
the declaration should have been filed
. And here, many
of our clients always
ask us, well, if I filed
my declaration in January or February,
so it suits my interests, I count the 60
days from when I
filed it, right? The law is very clear and
establishes that it is when
the annual declaration should have been filed. When
should I file it? March 31st.
So, from there those 60 days begin to run,
and we conclude that no
later than May 30th, eh, for the purposes
of legal entities, they have the
obligation. Now it is within that
period, right? In other words, I can
pay it before, I can pay it during
or up to the limit, Yes, it can be done, right?
Because in the end, that's what they put at the
discretion of the employer,
that payment, right? And also, uh, and we must also
remember that, as
Vero and Said rightly mentioned, right? Look, in
general, there are those caps of three
months or the average of the three years of the
PTU and in some cases, and this is very
specific when they said, there are some
cases where the PTU has other caps,
what are they? uh, as a general rule,
what are they? It's the financial sector, which
are banks and insurance companies, banks and
insurance companies that have a
particular characteristic where the PTU is
capped at one month and that's been going on for a long time,
right? There's also another very
specific situation and those companies that
derive their profit from the
work that people carry out as an
entity, well, these are also
capped for one month. Generally,
what are these companies?
Civil societies, right? Because it's the fruit
of their work or the fruit of
people's work, right? uh, that's the general rule.
There are some particularities, right?
But In general terms, those are
the limitations where they say, "Hey,
you have up to one month." Hey, yes, but
the company can limit itself to three
months or what they received in the
previous three years. Yes, but
we are dedicated to
this, and therefore, our limit is
different, right? So that they don't
often go with the idea that these
workers are fair or why this, why
this situation occurs, is, is
this, well, at the end of the day, follow
the guidelines that the regulations
right? Here, if I may add a few
important points just now that were talking
about the whole issue of calculation and all
that, obviously it's important, but so
is having the
mixed commission, right? Suddenly, and we have seen in
practice that many clients do
not have the mixed commission, and it is very
important. Let's remember that the
mixed commission is what determines the
payment of the PTU, not the employer. So,
depending on the situation, we have to take that into account,
and in addition to the fact that the
reviews of Regarding the
IMS opinions, getting into my subject of
social security effects, the
authorities are requesting the minutes
of the joint commission and that they are
truly substantiated and that they are actually
done, right? So it's important to have that
joint commission and that the
companies establish it and that
they have that,
well, that legal basis, right? That
must be in place to be able to make the
distribution and for everything to be transparent, right?
right?
Yes. And that's very important, this
namesake, because many times this is
left behind,
right? And they don't take those precautions and in the
end, these are problems that we
face, and this part of the
remediation in these matters, wow, it
becomes very complicated, right? That's
correct. They do it as the
practical part, right? I mean, I'm going to distribute,
but well, I forget that I have to
form a commission, that the commission
is the one that will rule or rather,
review the amount to be paid and the one that will
have the entire declaration, All
the fundamentals to be able to make the
distribution, right? As such. And obviously, you
have to notify the employer and all
the collaborators, right? About that.
Exactly. And now, getting into
your subject, um, namesake, and you started
to touch on these issues of what's happening
with Social Security, if you could
tell us a little bit about what we
should take care of in terms of
social security and especially because of the
Technical Council agreement that
emerged in 2023 around the second semester.
semester.
Yes, yes, with pleasure. Look, this
agreement was like a reminder from the
institute. Normally, this has, if the
PT obviously has it all its life, well, the
same as the part of the
Technical Council agreements. Here,
obviously, derived from everything that comes from the
2021 reform on the issue of
subcontracting, the new form of payment
of or the ways to pay this,
this right of the PTU, well, the IMS
also spoke out and said, "Let's see,
let's get down to
business." Well, very strict and
argue certain situations." Here we
are putting in the slides
the most important thing about this agreement that
came out on June 26, 2023. uh, it was
published in the Official Gazette of the
Federation on July 7, 2023 and
what it had aimed to guide
employers regarding the exclusions
as components of the base salary for
contributions of payments that exceed the
maximum amount of the PTU. They already explained very well
this part of Vero Isaí, the
part of the payments that either the three
months or the part of the east of the
payment as such, but yes, that exclusion or
that excess amount that is
owed or that is paid, well here the IMS
is focusing on it and is saying,
well, if you are going to pay a PTU under those
two guidelines that the
legislation is already arguing, then you
have to integrate the surplus to me,
right? and that is how it is instructing the head
of the incorporation directorate
of all the sub-delegations and
Administrative units so that they
entail and that they make this
agreement known to everyone. Yes,
obviously we already know it, but in case of
any doubts that may arise,
each of them or each
subdelegation must have this
expertise, which we know that sometimes they don't have
, but they must clarify
this situation, right? And have the
basis for it. Here the agreement is
very clear, it comes into force the
next day, obviously it would be
July 8th, which comes into force in 2023, and it is
said that it comes into force, but in the
end I come back to the same thing, this has been around for a
long time, the
Technical Council agreement already argued about
these PTU advances or this, these
surpluses, right? Because there are two
relevant issues. There are also
PTU advances that the authority does not see well
because they are outside of everything that
is legal and what the law establishes
for the payment of PTU. Additionally, here we
also put this an
important point that all
workers who exceed what is indicated
in the 27 in section 8, which
is the part of the payment, the
surplus of it will be a
bonus as such and obviously it must be
integrated as the
first point said, right? And we know that there are
many practices, many employers
establish it in delivering amounts that
although they are registered in all
the accounting as advance payments to
workers, they normally
do it in December or some
other month, the authority is not
establishing it or will not
establish it as PTU, but as an
additional bonus and it must be
integrated into the salary, if it is in December, it
must be integrated into the salary of
January 1 of the following year. previous,
right? Here it is important that you
visualize this, see it. The authority is
focusing, it is auditing in a
way, let's call it, aggressive, if you will
allow me the expression. and so
are the reviews of
some tax credit, some cabinet, a
cabinet review or the review of
the Opinions. Here it is
also important for those of us who are dedicated to
that, for those who are in the forum that are
dedicated to issuing opinions, to take
this situation into account, right? Because the authority
is going to focus on it and this
year the review will surely have that weight
because last year, well,
this agreement was in 2023 and while it is
true, well, the next day the
authority will argue it from 2023,
from the 2023 opinion and obviously it will
have more weight for the opinion that we are going to
present in September of
this 2024, right? Here it also establishes
that integrating outside the limits or
deadlines established by the Federal
Labor Law loses its nature and for the
purposes of social security or for the
purposes of salary integration it
should be considered an integral part,
right? Obviously, there will be people who say
that there are grounds and all that, but they
would have to be clarified, it would have to be
substantiated if the authority is
moving in that direction, right? That the
advances of PTU isn't a PTU because it falls
outside the scope of what the
law establishes. You have to pay me surplus payments
that are bonuses, and you
have to integrate them. So, there would be
those two assumptions, or two, these or two
payments that are made should be
considered an integral part of the
salary, right? Even, even, my name is,
here I would allow it because
this part is very, very specific, right? Hey, when the
force is delivered, it goes beyond the
limits and deadlines. And what happens?
There are some occasions where companies
say, "I don't have the cash flow
right now in May to pay the PTU. I'd better
pay them in June because they
fall outside the deadlines, and then
that's no longer PTU for social security purposes
and it has to be integrated, right?
Correct. Totally agree. Same as
what I said before, the
advance of the PTU, right? I mean, we know
that many companies say, "Well,
to benefit the workers and
all that, well, I'm going to
pay you an advance in December or
another month, for whatever reason, right? But in the
end, well, it loses the nature of
the PTU according to
current legislation and obviously, well, it wouldn't fit
or it wouldn't or it wouldn't be like a PTU as such,
right? Because in December
the PTU is not paid, it is paid in May, right? May, June.
June.
Sure, sure. And that does have to be
very careful, right?
Yes. Here are some
important aspects of this criterion to
consider and to discuss with you
is that whoever excludes the base salary
from the cooking the payments that give up the
amount of the PTU, well, obviously it will
be very uh in the spotlight. Whoever pays
the PTU outside of the deadlines established
in article 122, the 60 days, well, it also
loses its nature and is
outside the deadlines and it becomes a
bonus as such, Right? Whoever
advises or provides services in the
implementation of these
practices, well, that becomes
the focus of the authority,
both good, in this case for
the IMS, right? Every certified public accountant
who issues a clean
or unqualified opinion in the opinions that they are
going to issue or that they issued in
2023 and that they will issue in 2024,
incur in these practices,
obviously, will have some impact on
the review of the opinion, they will have to
clarify it, they will have to justify it where
appropriate, if they did so, they will have to
justify it and obviously, to the
institute, clarify these
situations of why this practice was carried out,
which in the end the same institute
is already, let's put it this way,
clarifying it, reminding us again that I do
n't see this type
of practices favorably, right? With your agreement.
Yes, yes, namesake. Plus this part of, uh,
we know that Social Security is the
supervisory entity that is not tempted. heart
and goes straight to the freezing of your
accounts. This, and the truth is that it's
the institution that best knows how
to collect, right? And we say best knows how to
collect, not well, not badly, but collects,
because at the end of the day, you
can't operate if you don't have
bank accounts, right? And it is and it is where the Social
Security authority comes first
. So, yes, you have to be very
careful with this part that you mentioned about the
public accountant, this one has to be
practically
eh informed of any situation that he
considers not within the
guidelines, because if not, the sanction
for the accountant can also be
eh relevant, right? So, many
times, many clients tell us, "It's that you
you
Social Security assessors eh really get into your own
pockets and well, they must be
selective tests, because for
Social Security, they are not selective tests, just like
in taxes, right? That is, at the
end of the day, there is no
materiality or there is no materiality
in terms of
contributions, in terms of contributions
to social security. That must be
taken into account and everything is already
tied up because at the end of the day the
authority will know when
the petua was paid to its employees because they
stamp it and then the payment date appears
. You know when you filed your
annual return or what
dates you have until for this payment, right?
So this authority now
has all the tools to
reach out to taxpayers,
right? This part, and let me tell you
that this part of
information exchange between institutions is already
being quite efficient. There are already
local authorities that are
reviewing your federal taxes and Social Security,
this one, and Social Security may also
be reviewing this
federal taxes, local taxes. This
fiscal coordination is already working.
That seed that was
planted a little over a decade ago
is already sowing, it's
reaping fruits, right now? Because? Because
there's now more strategic coordination,
because the government needs money and
has to figure out how to raise it, right?
And always, and social security never
loses, right, my name is, right? No no. And here,
obviously, the oversight,
as I was saying, is
quite complicated with the
institute. Sometimes the people who
deal with audits or
audit reviews
aren't that expert, and they go
with guidelines
given to them from above, right? That is, there is no
other way here than for you to believe that you are a
tax credit. So, you don't have to
give them weapons so they can
monitor you, something that you can ultimately
start remedying beforehand, right? Do
n't do things that, or with some
recommendation that, well, you can be an
advance on PTU, you can pay the
surplus, don't integrate it because it's
PTU, but have everything well-founded,
well-advised so that you don't
have those complications. No no no don't
give the authority or don't give them
weapons so they can monitor you, right?
That's what's important, like
the comment we should
Yes, it is super relevant that they have it,
right? And also, well, I would like to
comment a little on this part of the
considerations regarding SRI and it goes
and goes at the end of the day, as you can
see, everything is integrated, right?
At the end of the day, there is harmony
on issues of
workers, right? Although it arises from a
constitutional right, we have already seen
that it not only has a
labor impact, but also an impact
on social security. The
precautions that our namesake Castañeda already mentioned,
and also for the purposes of
income tax, and
federal tax contributions,
must be taken into consideration. Many
still tell us, "Hey,
for me, PTU is a
deductible concept." No, it has never been a
deductible concept. It is not reduced from
the tax base, but that does not mean it
is an expense. And also, uh,
this part is very relevant because,
uh, the authority, what does it
establish? Let's see, I have a way to
determine the ISR. There are certain
adjustments or adjustments that I have to
consider to integrate this into the
PTU base and from there that 10% arises. But the
essence is the same, right? The
adjustments that must be made between the
determination of
income tax and the PTU are minimal and are
identifiable. So let's not lose
sight of the fact that the essence is the same, right? And there are
also many very
relevant things because there is a decree that
establishes that we can reduce
our provisional payments by one-
eighth of
the PTU that has been paid from May to December.
And many of our
clients tell us, "Hey, if I paid
a PTU in May, but there are parts of PTU
for certain situations that the
worker who is no longer with me,
well, he came and picked up his check until
August, September and so, well, I
am paying a PTU, but
that payment does not appear in the reduction of
my provisional payments and it will never
appear. Why? Because we go back to the
same thing, we have to take care of the
payment terms of the PTU and everything we have
paid in May, that amount I will be
able to reduce it to an eighth
starting with the May declaration and until
December, right? So it is very
important that the FDIs are stamped
, that the payment date and the stamping
correspond to May so that everything that has been
paid in May can be
reduced in the provisional payments and
not have any complications. uh, that
indeed there will be payments that will be
made later. Generally they are
people who no longer work with
us, but who uh, they have the
right to collect their share Of
the workers, eh, of
the workers'
profit sharing. And what we've also seen,
notice that eh, they've always asked us
this question. Hey, is anything that exceeds
the PTU cap a bonus or is it PTU?
Why? And why do I share it this
way? Eh, when
this reform on
subcontracting was made, eh, there were companies that
had employees and always had
employees and were very
profitable. So, the PTU that was
distributed was
10%, there was no more.
When the subcontracting reform came into effect
, the workers of
these companies eh, eh, started to get
upset because they said, "Hey, if this
company was profitable and I had that 10%,
why are you going to hit me now with these
rules for 3 months if you, your company, were already
paying me that?"
So, these companies
told us, "Hey, what am I going to do with
this situation? Am I going to consider it
as PTU or is it a bonus that I'm going to
pay the employees?" Well, at the end
of the day, these are topics for discussion because there are
those who say, "Yes, it is a PTU, because
at the end of the day my PTU base is
10% of taxable income.
That I have a limit, well that is
independent, but the essence of that
10% is. There are others who say, "No,
let's see, whatever you pay them additionally, even
when you reach that 10%, it's considered this
bonus and you're not going to consider it as PTU.
Why? Because that's why you have a cap.
So, these are very
specific issues, but they did occur,
because at the end of the
day there were quite
profitable companies whose workers were affected by this subcontracting reform,
and for that reason they said, "Let's
see, I'm not going to fight. I used to
pay my employees like this. I'm going to
continue paying because I didn't have
subcontracting, it was my natural way of
operating and I had my profits and I have
my profits. Why am I going to affect
the worker? And labor laws will
always be in favor of
workers. So, yes, we do have to be
careful with these situations. Yes, we've
faced this, and at the end of the
day, if we consider it as
PTU, let's look at the impact on
social security because we're talking about
caps, we're talking about other things.
What's going to happen? No?
So it becomes something integral, we
can no longer see it in isolation. Hey,
well, I'm going to use it for SR purposes,
because it even helps me because
my eighth part will be better for me to
reduce my provisional payments. Yes,
but what's happening with
Social Security? No? So, these are some of the
reflections we have to take into account now
now
as we calculate the
PTU payment that will be made
starting next month, and also take
into account the care involved in
stamping the FDIs, right? Because from there
they will have more repercussions.
So, basically these are the aspects
that we did want to discuss with all of
you. Now we're going to open the
microphones in order to be able to
answer the questions that
you have and those concerns. I see that
there are some comments in the chat
. So we're going to open
this microphone there. We saw
some hands raised there. So this
is this is what we
wanted in about 40 minutes. It's a lot, it
's a lot of information,
this topic is too broad, but we wanted to summarize it in 40
minutes because we think it
Perfect. Hey, let's start with the questions.
Yes, look, in the
questions section there is one that says, "If
the company has
unionized and trusted employees,
the calculation should be treated differently
." I think Vero and Saí could help us there .
.
Clear. Uh, no, uh, there's no
different treatment. There are two
types of workers there:
unionized workers and confidential workers. However,
since there are unionized workers, they must
choose the unionized worker with the highest income,
and that person will be capped at 20%, and
will be capped at all those in the general population who
Thanks, Vero. And let's see in the
the consequences of not complying with
the payment of the determined PTU and what
limits workers have to
demand their
payment. Let's see what consequences there are for not
complying with the payment of the PTU. Well, there
are labor consequences. Yes of course.
Well, there they violate the protection
that workers have for payment.
Well, there are sanctions. Yes of course. There are
fines ranging from 250 to 5,000 as a
penalty because they are violating
an ordinance, right? So, there
will be sanctions, there will
be consequences.
And another, what other was it
and what and what limit do
workers have to demand their payment? Ah,
well, the right to fight
expires in a year. That is, we already talked about the fact
that the company is obligated to do
the dissemination and then make the delivery. And
we're talking practically about
former collaborators. They have up to a
then says, "For the payment of PTU
capped at 3 months of daily salary, the
the
cap of the highest salary of
unionized personnel plus 20% should be considered in the determination, or does this cap only
apply to the payment and not to the calculation
and not to the payment." For example, for a
high-salary worker, his
theoretical PTU is 120,000. The cap
according to the highest unionized worker
plus 20% is 45,000. 3 months
of worker's salary 100,000. What
amount is paid?
Yes, that is a controversy because in
effect the law says the cap is 3 months of the
worker's salary, it is not
telling us that it is the cap because from
my perspective, well, we are already doing, we would be doing
a double punishment because first we
already punish those, well, who are seen as
more privileged with the salary, well, we
already punish them with the cap, now,
well, with the cap of 20% more
than that of the unionized worker or
whoever has the characteristic. Now he says,
"Well, if he earns more than what
they mentioned about the unionized salary cap
, well, we're already
telling him that it's going to be the same for everyone,
right? So, however, if there are
companies, and we have this one, well,
some companies that say they're not going to
hit the capped salary plus the 20%
for unionized workers, whoever meets the requirement.
requirement.
So, the law doesn't say that,
right? It only says that it's three
months of the worker's salary
. So, but, well, regarding
the reviews, there have been some
experiences with the reviews by the
Ministry of Labor. What criteria does
the authority establish in these reviews ?
?
Yes, indeed
, from the calculation of
profit and distribution, we already have an
established cap, right? And it's the additional 20%
to the highest salary of
unionized or permanent personnel,
right?, who meet those requirements.
requirements.
So, we already have an amount of PT to
distribute. For the purposes of the
next cap of 127 Section 8,
where it tells us it's three months'
salary, the
daily salary must be considered, right?
This is how the
Ministry of Labor and
Social Welfare has been handling it in the various
inspections it may conduct.
Thank you, thank you, Vero. Here, I'm going to
skip one by Mauricio Rosas because I
think it's also relevant to some people, and I'll
go back a little bit to the previous one. It
says, "The question is, what salary should be
considered to calculate the
three-month limit in the event that in 2024 the
employees have had a
mid-year salary increase?" the current salary or
And yes, because there are
many companies where they tell you, "Hey, the
increase isn't going to be given in January, but rather
in May, in June, in July.
Hey, what daily salary am I going to
get?" No, yes, no? And and and in fact there have been
cases where
suddenly in the month of
December your salary is increased, right?
And with that salary, I'm
going to consider the cap, well,
negotiations can be
held mainly with the
unions and with the joint committee in
one way or another, as
Mr. Miguel mentioned, he
told us that the
joint committee is in charge of making the
distribution, right? Many times when it
comes to being under review and
the rules are agreed upon, what they seek to
do is to be able to have an average of the
earned salary to be able to precisely limit
those 3 months and not fall into cases
like these, right? From, "You know what?
The profit sharing is coming up and
you're my friend and I'm going to raise your
salary a little bit more so that you get
a little bit more, right? One of those cases
that are fictitious, but that I don't
think will happen in reality,
right? However, that is uh part of the
criteria that is going to be that I know is being
taken on salaries earned during the year.
year.
Thank you. And I'll go back to the question I
had missed. He says, "Good morning,
what prevails between 10% and the
established cap?" Let's see, the Federal
Labor Law tells you it's 10%. And from there
comes a cap. That's why what I was saying
uh almost at the end of the talk, where there
are companies that say, "Let's see, this, I
was always utilitarian and I'm going to and I always
gave them 10%. "Why do I have to
cap it now?" Look, there are criteria, there are
considerations that tell you, "No, that
10% does not lose its PTU characteristic
because that is the general rule." Then
a cap comes and says, "Well, my PTU to be
distributed is going to be so much, but in essence
the 10% does not lose or could not lose
that characteristic of being PTU, but
each case does have to be analyzed specifically
in order to see
how it was determined, how it would be
paid and what
additional consequences there are from what we saw in
terms of social security, right? So, in the
end, my maximum is 10% of the
pleasant income. That's the maxim. Hey,
after the rain comes you're going to find it in
these ways. Ah, well, I'll
find it, right? Because if not,
the issue of what we saw in the
financial sector and SCS would also arise, where they tell you, "It's one
month and you can't do more."
So, we have to take those
considerations into account, right? But the maximum is that
10%. Then he says, "What is the role
regarding workers who are
compensated for unjustified dismissal?
Do they qualify for PTU?
Of course, of course. I mean,
that's another story, but the
right exists and must be granted. Whether they
are dismissed justifiably or
unjustifiably, the right is not lost
. We know it's an inalienable right.
Thank you, Vero. And the last question
to conclude. This one says, "What happens if
your right expires after a year?" But the year
would be in May of the following year, for
example, 2025. If the declaration is
filed in March 2025, is the
PTU from the previous year accumulated? Of course, because you
say, "Hey, what wasn't distributed? I'm going
to add it to the PTU that I'm determining
in this exercise." He says, "And in that and in
this example, the employee arrives in April
and says, "Hey, I want my PTU." Or he says,
"Request your PTU." His PTU no longer exists
because we have already accumulated it and it has already been paid to
or will already be paid to the employees.
Uh, what do we do to pay him and not
violate his right? Well, his
right will exist until May 31, 2026,
right? But I don't know, in that case I think that uh he would have to be
paid the PTU as such
because he still has the right.
Exactly. Yes, I also have that
issue, that dilemma, because in effect I
say, most arrive at Inter the
same year, but some arrive
and since they already know that their right
expires in a year, then they show up
in April or May of the following year,
well the company can't uh say, "No,
what do you think? Because I already
accumulated it for the new fiscal year." No, well,
your right exists because the law establishes it that way
. So, you have to be given
what was
determined there. The tax treatments
and this and accounting, well, they will have their
special treatment, but because that's what
the law says, that's what it demands and
establishes, it has to be paid.
Exactly. And as a concept of PTU, that is, there is
no more, right? And and it already says,
when a company does not pay the PTU it has
an impact on the financial statements and
fiscally, because if you do not pay the
PETU you will have a liability. So, uh,
the liability will be recorded there.
Fiscally, you do not have a right to a
reduction because you did not pay it.
The problem is a purely
labor issue, that if one or more employees
leave and complain, hey, if there was a PTU,
but they did not pay them, there are
labor consequences. Yes, yes, yes.
And well, this audience really
appreciates the time you
gave us in this webinar related
to the considerations for PTU.
We hope this has been helpful, and if you have
any additional questions, please feel free to reach us on
our channels, whether it's YouTube,
WhatsApp, our own page,
Instagram, or LinkedIn
. First of all, we
reiterate our gratitude, and we
remain at your service in any case
. Thank you very much.
Thank you all. We're at your
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