This content explores the accessibility and practicalities of starting side hustles and businesses with limited capital, emphasizing a profit-driven mindset, strategic validation, and leveraging modern tools, rather than solely relying on passion.
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A lot of people are looking for passive
income from side hustles. Yeah, it's the
financial ompic and it's more accessible
than ever. Like 90% of the ideas I talk
about can be launched with $500 or less.
And there's enough time in the day to do
these on the nights and weekends. So in
these three suitcases in front of me, I
have three different amounts of money.
And during this conversation, I'm going
to pass you a box at random. And your
job is to tell me what kind of business
you would start with that amount of
money. Sounds good. Let's do this. Known
as the king of side hustles, Chris
Kerner has launched over 80 businesses,
earning millions in the process. And
now, the serial entrepreneur is going to
teach us how to adopt a business mindset
>> and launch simple, overlooked, but
profitable ventures with little money.
>> Many of us struggle financially and they
see a side hustle as a solution to that.
Like for me, growing up kind of poor,
business allowed me to take hold of my
life and make it what I wanted it to be.
And it started when I was 9 years old
and wanting a Red Schwin bicycle. My
friends had a bicycle. My neighbors had
a bicycle and my parents didn't have
money for it. But I lived across the
street from a golf course and these golf
balls would fly in my yard and I would
go to my neighbor's yard and go across
the street, dig through the ditches and
I'd pull out all these golf balls and I
started selling them. That was my first
business. That taught me that business
is approachable and we all have ideas,
but we usually don't do anything about
it. Why? I think number one, they're
afraid of what people think. Number two
is they don't have the tools or they're
not connecting the tools with the ideas.
If we can get over those, the world is
our oyster at that point. I have $1,000.
What side hustle would you start?
>> The first thing that comes to mind is my
favorite business idea of all right now.
This is a zero employee business. It's
highly profitable and that would be so
how important is it for you to love the
thing to be successful at it? Ignore
passion. Follow the profit until you can
afford to follow your passion. Do they
need a business partner? No. If you look
at the stats on business failure rates
with companies that have co-founders,
it's significantly higher than companies
that have solo founders. And how does
someone validate a business idea? If I
had to pick one tool, it's one that one
in four humans use every day.
I see messages all the time in the
comments section that some of you didn't
realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
could do me a favor and double check if
you're a subscriber to this channel,
that would be tremendously appreciated.
It's the simple, it's the free thing
that anybody that watches this show
frequently can do to help us here to
keep everything going in this show in
the trajectory it's on. So, please do
double check if you've subscribed and uh
thank you so much because in a strange
way you are you're part of our history
and you're on this journey with us and I
appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.
Chris,
>> who are you and what is the mission that
you're on?
>> I am a father. I am a husband and I'm a
serial entrepreneur and I love talking
about business and starting businesses
and inspiring other people to do the same.
same.
>> Why business has given me everything.
Um, growing up kind of poor, it was my
outlet. It was my way of just kind of
taking hold of my life and making it
what I wanted it to be. And I have
immense gratitude for that. Um, and I
love I just love talking about it. I
it's the only thing I know you I can't
talk to you about history or nutrition
or anything, but when it comes to
business, I just love it and I want
other people to love it as well. How
have you made your name in the world of
business? Because I've heard your name a
lot recently. People call you the king
of side hustles.
Where has this come from? I think I just
published my life on the internet now.
Um, I I'm always testing and launching
and starting businesses, but only over
the last couple years have I started
publishing that. And
I didn't try to be like the king of side
hustles. That's not something that I've
ever like intentionally tried to brand
myself as, but I think people see what I
do as a side hustle and they call it
that. But I think that anything is
scalable. Any side hustle could could be
a multi-million dollar business. Um, I
mean, we we live on a planet with eight
billion people and we're all connected
and anything can be scaled.
>> And you make a lot of content now, so
you've probably had a bit of a feedback
loop in terms of understanding what it
is that you say and do and create that's
resonant with people and also why it's
resonant like what is the crux of what
people like my audiences are are looking
for. As humans, we all want a silver
bullet. We want a solution to our
problems and many of us struggle
financially um and they see a side
hustle as as an outlet to that or as a
solution to that. I think everyone has
ideas. um most people are very hesitant
to execute on those ideas. And so when
they see someone like me freely
executing on all the ideas, it hopefully
it opens their mind and helps them look
at their ideas in a different way or a
more approachable way and maybe gives
them confidence to do the same. In the
boxes in front of me here, I have three
different amounts of money. $500, I
think I have $1,000, and $5,000. And
during this conversation, I'm going to
pass you a box at random. And your job
is to tell me what kind of business you
would start with that amount of money
because I know my audience, you know,
they're many of them are interested in
starting their own business one day. And
I use specifically sort of low amounts
of money just to make it as accessible
to them as possible. So, we will do that
at some point. I'll pass you the boxes.
You give me three business ideas. You'll
start with $500, $1,000, and $5,000. Um,
but I want to get a view on on you and
the businesses that you've started and
the sort of the variety of success
you've had. So, can you give me an overview?
overview?
>> Yeah. So, I was 9 years old living in
Utah and I lived across the street from
a golf course and these golf balls would
fly in my yard and I don't know what
gave me the idea, but I started selling
them. Um, I just wanted money for a
bike. I wanted this Schwin bicycle and
it was red and my friends had a bicycle,
my neighbors had a bicycle and my
parents didn't have money for it. And so
for whatever reason, I connected that
white golf ball in my grass with money.
And I would go to my neighbor's yards,
I'd go across the street, I'd dig
through the ditches, and I'd pull out
all these golf balls. I'd wash them. And
then I put up this huge piece of plywood
in front of my house that said golf
balls three for a dollar. And that was
my first business. And at the time, it
was just normal. It was natural. Uh I
didn't know any different. And now I
have a 9-year-old, and I was nine when I
did that. And we live on a busy road
today. I lived on a busy road then. And
the thought of him like negotiating,
haggling with grown-ups wearing polo
shirts on our doorstep is unfathomable.
But that's what I was doing. And that
planted the seed that kind of taught me
that business is approachable. Um,
preferably it's approachable.
Approachable and scalable can be the
same thing. They don't have to be at
odds with one another. So, and how many
businesses have you started since then?
>> I lose count. I have a spreadsheet. Um,
but it's at least 80.
And what's the what have the outcomes
been? How much money have you made? What
kind of how has that changed your life?
What freedom has that given you?
>> Yeah. So, cumulatively uh all of the
businesses have generated low hundreds
of millions of revenue. Um low tens of
millions of profit. Um but on a real
number basis,
the majority of them have been abandoned
or fizzled out or failed or there was
too much opportunity cost so I pivoted
to something else. Um, it's just a
numbers game.
>> And how has that changed your life? What
does your lifestyle look like?
>> My life is awesome. Um, we built our
dream house in our 20s. Uh, we had all
four of our kids in our 20s. We travel a
lot. Uh, we're I've been married for 17
years. We're a very close family. We
take a lot of trips. Um, we live in a
good school district, but my kids go to
public school and, um, we have
everything we need and more, and we're
very grateful for that.
What is the overt sort of underpinning
mentality that's required for someone to
be successful at starting businesses in
the way that you started them? Starting
these side hustles at volume and seeing
success. Is there like a foundational
mentality or personality or character
trait required before we get into the
tactics? Yeah, the
I should say that the the pain of your
problem needs to be greater than how
much you care about what people think
about you. It needs to get to that point
because by far that is the biggest
roadblock to success is people caring
too much about what people think about
them. And so they don't want to do the
thing or they don't want to talk about
doing the thing because some random
person from high school follows them on
Facebook and might comment something,
right? Which is really silly, but I I've
been there. I get it. Right? If we can
get over that, if we can just flip the
switch in our brain that says people are
thinking about me, people are caring
about me and just switch that to off.
Right? Because the world is our oyster
at that point. And in terms of where we
sit at this moment of time with
technology, with AI, with in fast
internet, with mobile phones, do you
think this is the best time for people
to start something to to start a side
hustle or to try? Every day that goes
by, the timing gets better for people,
right? Things are getting more
competitive, but there are more tools
than ever. Um, 10 years ago, if I wanted
to start a business, and this is like
the internet's in full swing, social
media is in full swing, I probably had
to spend a lot of money or move to San
Francisco or raise venture capital.
That's like I I would love for you to
try to convince me. Try to give me an
idea where you have to raise money or
where you have to go allin or where you
you have to quit your job. It doesn't
exist. With all these AI tools, software
tools, you can make a website with one
prompt. You can make an app with one
prompt. You could post to Facebook
Marketplace and have hundreds of
inquiries within an hour. You could post
Facebook ads. You could go to
Craigslist. Like, you could put a sign
up in front of your house. You could go
launch a survey to people. Like, there
are so many tools for testing and
validating and experimenting with these
concepts that it is more accessible than
ever. Why don't people?
I think number one is they're afraid of
what people think. Number two is they
don't have the tools or at least they're
not connecting the tools with the ideas,
right? They'll use Facebook Marketplace
to sell a sectional, but then they won't
think to use it when validating their
woodworking idea, right? They're just
not connecting the dots. There's too
many tools in a sense, so we don't know
how to tie them all together. Um,
they also probably don't know
like how much the law of abundance is a
real thing, right? People think business
is a zero sum game. What does that mean?
>> Well, they think that things are
oversaturated. They'll have an idea for
a product or a service and then they'll
get really excited and then they'll go
Google it and then we'll see it exists
and they'll move on. And when I do that
and I see it exists, I'm like, "Yes,
this is it. Someone someone went to the
front lines of the battlefield and
validated this for me." And then I'll go
to the web archive. I'll go to who is
and I'll go look at what their website
has looked like over the last decade.
See where they started. Maybe their
product was $99. Now it's like 49 every
2 months. Interesting. Okay. I'll look
at the the copy of their headline. I'll
look at like how many tabs they have on
their website. Do they post their
Instagram feed on? I'll look at all
these things and see how it's evolved
over time and think awesome. I'm going
to start where he's at today. like this
guy already proved it out for me. He
took all the risk. This is amazing. This
exists. I don't need to like do it
better. I don't need to do it
differently. I just need to do the same
thing. Um and the market is big enough,
the world is big enough to where I can
win as well.
>> You said um web archive. What role does
web archive play? What is that for
anyone that isn't familiar? And how do
you use that?
>> Yeah, it's just a tool that shows
snapshots uh over time of what a website
looks like, right? So, it's a great way
of kind of reverse engineering what
businesses have done to be successful.
And then there's another tool called
Similar Web where you can see what their
traffic has been over time. And you can
kind of overlay the two and you can say,
"Oh, interesting. When they when they
redesigned their website to be more
mobile friendly, their traffic went from
3,000 a month to 4500 a month.
Interesting. I'm just going to make it
mobile friendly from day one." Right? So
we are at a great advantage when we
start where our competitors or our
future competitors already are instead
of starting where we think we need to be
starting like trying to be different or
innovative or unique. In my experience,
that's more of like a signal of our
pride or our ego. We feel kind of like
weird or odd or even dirty or unethical
if we're just like copying and pasting a
business. Even if we had the original
idea ourselves when really there's
nothing to be ashamed of. We don't want
to steal their intellectual property or
their logo or anything, but copy what's
already working.
>> People think, you know, people don't
think that that's a thing because they
think if I copy a business that's
already working, then I'm not going to
get any customers because that this
existing business has all the customers.
>> But it's interesting. I had someone on
the show where they talked about how
some of the greatest entrepreneurs in
the world basically just copy 95% of the
blueprint. I think it was Walmart. I
think he was talking about Walmart, but
yeah, they copied other like regional
grocery chains. Mhm. Copying as a strategy.
strategy. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
Have you done that?
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Give me an example.
>> Okay. Well, I I had a phone repair
business in when I was in college, 2010,
and I got a call one day from someone
that said, "Hey, Chris, I want to buy
all of your broken iPhone screens." Do
you have any broken iPhone screens?
Sure. We don't throw them away cuz we
think it's bad for the environment. We
just have a box of them. How much will
you pay me? three bucks a piece. Why?
Why? Why will you pay me $3? It's just
broken glass. And they said, "Well,
there's actually a way of
remanufacturing these. We can send them
to China. We can remove the broken
glass, put new glass on them, and then
we can resell them as a remanufactured
unit." And that was just like a light
bulb, right? So, most people, I think,
at this point, would say, "Yeah, like,
yeah, where do I ship these?" You know,
but I was like, "Oh, I need to be in
that business. I want to copy that guy
who called me." right now. I don't know
what his website was. I don't know. I
don't know what the name of his business
was. There was no web archive at the
time to look at. I just wanted to copy
the business model cuz I thought this is
going to be a thing. I'm in the
industry. I know the industry. I'm going
to do this as well. We did 2 million the
first year, then five, and then nine,
and then we exited a few years after that.
that.
>> It's interesting, but you know, you
often don't think that
everyone's in search of a new idea. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And it's tough to find new ideas. Yeah,
like I think was it Einstein that said
there's no such thing as a new idea?
Sounds right. But you have an
orientation just to look at existing
models and to replicate them. Do you put
a spin on it at all? I'll develop my own
spins over time. Right. Because we're
all a product of our environment. And so
in in the case of this business, I
started copying. Exactly. Right. Um I
went and found people in China. I just
went to Alibaba. I messaged a ton of
people that sold iPhone screens and I
said, "Do you recycle? Do you recycle?
did you recycle? And like five or 10% of
them said yes. So then I shipped them
samples and then they shipped me some
back and and then over time I started
like taking some marketing principles
principles from previous businesses like
Facebook ads, cold calling and I started
applying them just cuz I didn't know how
this other competitor was finding
success. I knew he was cold calling and
that was working. That's all I knew.
Remember I didn't even know the name of
his business. And so over time, you
start using your previous experiences to
apply these tweaks to the business and
to make it your own. But if you do that
right at the outset, right? Like if I
got a call and he said, "I want to buy
your broken iPhone screens." And I said,
"Okay, I'm going to do that, but I don't
want to just sell iPhone screens. That's
lame. I'm going to do Samsung." Right?
Pretty good chance there's not even a
market for that or there's not even a
method for that. And because of my my
ego, my pride, my unwillingness to just
copy what's already working, I wouldn't
that I wouldn't have that successful
business in my back pocket. Right?
>> So, if you do twists in the beginning,
it's kind of like your um I'm kind of
thinking of an analogy like if you're on
a long road trip and you start taking
detours early on or if a flight is on a
flight path and he starts like getting
off track just a little bit at the
beginning, he's going to end off he's
going to end up hundreds of miles away
from his destination. But if he starts
making tweaks along the way, then he'll
be much closer to where he would have
been anyway.
>> Mhm. And you might reach a better
destination with some of those
>> tweaks because you're blending it with
your your experience, what you know
better than the person that you're copying.
copying.
>> And so it's important to to copy the
model exactly at the beginning because
you're also going to learn what it is
about that existing model that works. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And therefore what you can iterate on,
change, expand. If you if you didn't,
then you might miss something. Exactly.
Cuz so often I made the mistake of
looking at another business and saying,
"Oh man, why are they doing that? Why
are they charging like that? Why? Like
they're charging all these different
things. That's so confusing." I made
this mistake. I had a an e-commerce
fulfillment business where brands would
send us all their products. We had this
big warehouse and we would ship all all
of their stuff out, right? And I was
like, "Why do they have storage fees,
pick pack, and ship fees? They they
charge fees for tracking their
expiration dates. They charge extra fees
if there's five items in a box versus
four. Like there's so much friction
there. That's so messy. Like we're going
to make this simple. We're going to just
one flat fee, no storage fee, and that's
going to be our differentiator, right?
And then over time, over the course of
months and years, we learned, oh,
storage fees. It's because sometimes
your customers go out of business and
then you're left holding the bill and
like your storage costs are actually
very high but there's nothing to pass
on. Oh, pick back and ship fees because
you learn all these things and you're
like, "Okay, I wasn't like this genius
that had an MBA. I was just like trying
to put my own spin on it cuz I thought I
was smarter than that business owner."
Turns out someone that's been doing this
for 15 years versus 15 days knows a lot
more about the industry than me. And I'm
much better off just copying his
pricing, copying the layout of his
website, copying the size of the
warehouse he has, copying the same niche
that he's going after, cuz that's
clearly working for him. So, I don't
make that mistake anymore. I don't I
don't assume that other competitors are
idiots, right? Yeah.
>> I've been proven wrong too many times. I
assume that they're doing that because
they've learned the hard way. Yeah.
>> And if I copy them, then I won't have to
learn the hard way.
>> I had um several of our executives over
at my house over the last couple of days
and we were looking at different models
of so basically we're looking at other
companies that do similar things to us
that have been around for a long time.
And the question that I ended up asking
at one moment when I was had the exact
same epiphany. I was like why do they do
it that way? Isn't that shitty?
>> And there was a second where I think we
were tempted to try and reinvent the
wheel. But the question I ask myself now
with the wisdom of like many years of
business is like why did it end up that way?
way?
>> Which is why did our competitor who's
been doing this for 50 years end up there?
there?
>> Because that as you said there's clearly
a set of things that have happened that
have made them conclude whether it's at
scale or some other factor that's made
them conclude that this is the best way
of doing it. And just like you I've been
wrong so many times where I've thought
they're just idiots. That's why they
they they can't see this obvious thing.
But actually their model is stress
tested in the market much more than mine
is. So maybe I should
>> I should put my ego aside and at least
start how they start as you said which I
think is really important advice.
>> Yeah. Well, there are times when a
company just keeps doing something
because it works. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And so they don't take the time to test
something that works better, >> right?
>> right?
>> But it's almost impossible to guess what
that is, right? Like if a if a clothing
brand is growing their business entirely
through Facebook ads um and they've just
never tried Google ads, maybe Google ads
could convert twice as better. Twice
twice better, right? But I don't want to
guess that. I just want to start with
Facebook ads and then I'll still take 5%
of my budget and start testing other
concepts. But nine times out of 10, I
ended up just coming right back to
Facebook ads. It got me thinking about
how in business basically everything,
again speaking broadly here, can be put
into one of two categories. either like
old problems where thousands of people
have come before you and the same
solutions and same thinking is still
relevant and then new problems you know
things like AI have created a set of new
problems new opportunities as well and
what I tend to find is that like 95% of
the things in business are like old
problems like hiring cash flow how
finance is done legal all those kinds of things
things
>> and the and when when you're dealing
with a new an old problem expertise is
usually the answer which is like find
someone who knows hire someone or mentor
or whatever and then you have these new
problems where
>> there is no blueprint in our industry.
It's a new new challenge. So
experimentation is the answer. Does that
like broadly hold in your in your mind?
>> Oh 100%. Yeah. I I like to say test
everything except drugs.
>> Like we're always testing. Um it's the
basis to everything we do.
>> But do you test when it's an old problem?
problem?
>> Can you give me an example? So
like things like cash flow management um
>> hiring principles around like probation
and uh notice periods
um a lot of legal structuring and deals
things with like a wellestablished president
president
>> well established presidents where like
nothing has fundamentally changed in the
world that makes that invalid. Yeah, I
think if it's an old problem, I look to
an example of someone within the last
decade that's solved it in an
interesting way and I'm more likely to
copy that. Like in hiring, traditionally
companies will they'll spend hours and
weeks or days hiring, going from round
to round to round, person. And if you
look at Y Combinator, arguably the
greatest, you know, startup incubator in
the world, they have seven-minute
interviews. Um, and they said they would
make it five minutes, but it just felt
rude, right? and in their interviews,
they really know in the first three
minutes if it's a fit or not, and then
the interview's done. Like, they're
either in or they're not. I I approach
hiring the same way. Um, I would much
rather um take a like a a law of large
numbers approach to it and give five
people 30 days to show what their skills
are as opposed to spending 30 days going
all in on one person. Because in my
experience, that one person that I spent
30 days on is not any more likely to
succeed than those those other five
people that I might be testing. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
And your example of that storage company
you started. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It sounds like you hit an old problem.
>> Yes, very much so.
>> And you tried to innovate and
experiment, but this was an old problem
where the laws of human beings and how
they behave and businesses going bust
was still pertinent.
>> Yeah. And at the end of our our 2-year
experiment, like we look just like all
of our competitors, right? So, if we
would have started there, we could have
saved two years.
>> And this is what I find is founders
waste years trying to experiment where
old problems are still um strong and
still hold. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And this is what I the mistake several
of the mistakes I made in my company was
I should have spent all of my time
experimenting on the new problems.
>> Uhhuh. and should have hired people to
tell me um how to navigate the old problems.
problems. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> What what was your um I think one of the
videos that made you go pretty viral was
your story of
>> BIES. We don't know what BIES is around
the world. I think it's a US brand. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But this shows I think how you've always
had an orientation to think slightly
differently or in innovatively. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> What happened with BIES?
>> So this was during the time when I was
running that business shipping products
for other companies. Right. Bies is a
gas station brand uh with only 50
locations. And from those 50 locations,
they do billions of dollars of revenue.
I say gas station, they're between
40,000 and 80,000 square feet. Wow.
>> They're massive. They have an amazing
brand, an amazing logo, and they just
have a lot of trust from their
customers. But these gas stations are
like they're on the way out to these
road trip destinations. They're out in
the middle of nowhere. And so if you're
if you live in Dallas and you're driving
down to the beach, you're going to stop
by Bies on the way there and on the way
back, and you're probably going to spend
hundreds of dollars, right? You're going
to fill up the tank, then you're going
to buy shirts and snacks and all that
stuff. So, at the time we were running
this e-commerce fulfillment business, we
went to Buckies. I brought my cousin, my
business partner, um, just to kind of
show him the experience. And we were
just having a conversation. I remember
exactly where I was. I was like under
this underpass, this huge under pass in
DFW. We were driving home and I said,
"Man, these guys must kill it online.
They must sell so much stuff." Um, >> why?
>> why?
>> Because I knew that Disney sells like
billions of dollars of t-shirts on their
website, right? I read a stat recently.
So, I kind of just took that data point,
connected it to Bies, and said, "All
right, Bies is a fraction of the size of
Disney, but they have the same amount of
brand loyalty. People love their shirts.
You'll see their shirts all over the
world, even though they only have 50
locations like in the Southeast, right?"
And so we went to their website and
there was no shop button. There was no
place to buy their stuff and I was just
like like all the light bulbs were going
off at once, right? It was like, "Oh my
gosh, okay, we need to reach out to
them. Like we need to bring them
online." I just had all these ideas and
my cousin is is much more balanced than
I am. He's like the the operator and I'm
like the ADHD crazy guy, right? So his
role is to like calm me down and he's
very good at that. But I just couldn't
be calmed down from this. I'm like, "No,
no, no. We got to do something here.
We're going to buy one of everything.
We're going to hire a photographer to
take pictures of it. We're going to
launch our own BIES online store, and
we're going to try to go viral." Like,
it's viral or bust, right? If we don't
go viral, then I'll just be eating these
unhealthy snacks for the next 3 years of
my life. And so, we did. We bought one
of everything. Uh, it cost thousands of
dollars. I brought all four of my kids.
And, uh, we brought it back to our
warehouse. We took pictures of it. We
launched a website. Um, and I emailed
all the reporters I could find. Uh, and
one of them just loved the idea. He ran
with it. And so he reached out to BIES
for comment cuz they wouldn't respond to
my cold emails. I wanted to launch this
like with them in tandem, but who am I?
They didn't care about me. And I don't
blame them. And so he wrote this big
article about me. Millions of people
read it. All these other news outlets uh
wrote about it. And we did hundreds of
thousands of of dollars in our first 30
days organically from that.
How did Bies feel about that?
>> They wanted us to make some key changes
to the website. They wanted us to like
basically put disclaimers everywhere
that said we are not Bies. We're not
affiliated with Bies. They wanted us to
change the name. It had the word beaver
in the name. That's their mascot. They
just they didn't want it to be confusing
at all. So, we made all those changes
and then we got like the unofficial
thumbs up from them. They said, "We're
not going to sign anything, but like you
have our blessing. Um, have fun." And
did that website make you a lot of money?
money?
>> Yeah, it still is. It's been 5 years. We
still own it, 100% of it, and it's going great.
great.
>> And it's made you millions. >> Uh-huh.
>> Uh-huh.
>> What can someone listening take from
that in terms of applying that to their
own life, finding opportunities like
that out in the world, or is that just a
oneandone? Is there only one opportunity
like that? Okay. So, specific, I get
asked that question a lot. How could
someone do that with another brand?
I don't know. If if there was another
brand out there like that, I would be
doing it, right? Trader Joe's is
similar, but they're very ligious. Um I
think that was kind of lightning in a
bottle for that particular experiment as
in launching an online brand for an
in-person business. Okay. But people
should not be disheartened hearing that
because on a macro level like people
should take their curious ideas very
seriously. They need to shorten the
amount of time spent between having the
idea and doing something about that idea
>> because that will strengthen their bias
for action muscle, right? We all have
ideas, some of them good, some of them
bad on a regular basis. We usually don't
do anything about it. It's just a
passing thought, right? Whether it's a
business idea or a hard conversation I
need to have with something, any idea,
right? But the the the more we shrink
the amount of time between doing
something about that idea and having the
idea that that idea, the more often
we'll do that. And it becomes this
self-perpetuating snowball that just
compounds. And then before we know it,
we'll get more ideas. We'll do more
about those ideas. We'll be testing
things. We'll be learning tools. We'll
be experimenting. And we'll have a whole
portfolio of businesses. Is there
something in your mentality or
perspective though where you walk into a
Buckies and you even think about how you
could do something whereas most people
walk into a Bies and buy their stuff and
leave? Like is there something
foundational in the way that you're
looking at the world? Yeah. But I don't
think I'm any different. I think um I
think a lot of people have ideas like
that. Like you walk into a BIES and you
see something about something that could
be improved and people have these
passing thoughts and they move on. I
think that you become an expert at doing
something about those ideas. When you do
something about those ideas, you just
you get better at at what you do, at
what you test,
>> cuz you've built up some kind of muscle,
which means that you don't really care
about it seems failure as much as the
average person. And also in that
particular case,
>> the average person might think, well,
I've got no experience in doing that.
>> Mhm. No, no one has any experience in
anything until they do it, right? Like
every every expert started out as a
beginner, right?
Sometimes though, people try this and
they learn h doesn't give them energy.
It's not for them. That's okay. Now,
when they have ideas, they can know, all
right, box checked. That's not really
for me. That entrepreneurship thinks
someone else needs to do that. And
great, good. All the power to them. I
just want people to answer that question
for themselves. I hate seeing regret in
people's faces. Like I have friends that
want to start a business. They've always
talked about it and I know they would be
good at it and I know it just eats them
up and they have really really good
ideas objectively and I I just hate
seeing them have that question for the
rest of their lives. I just want them to
to taste entrepreneurship.
Is it for everybody though? You know,
you can think think of all your friends. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You can probably put them in groups of
this person should, this person
shouldn't. Mhm. And what defines who
goes in which group?
>> To me, it's how far they go in doing
something about that idea because I will
have friends that will text me ideas or
talk to me about ideas and then I never
hear from them again about that thing. I
don't worry about them. Right? I I feel
like there's a selection bias at play.
Like if they really wanted to do
something about it, they would get a
little further down the line. They'd
follow up with me. that's, hey, I did
this thing. Cuz I'll always give them
tips and feedback. You should do this.
You should try this. And they'll follow
up. And then, you know, at some point
along the line, it'll die, right? But if
they don't get any further than just
telling me their idea, then
I don't I don't lose sleep over them.
>> So, it's kind of surviv. It's kind of
sort of self- selecting itself anyway.
>> It is entrepreneurship.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. But then I have other
friends that are like they'll follow up,
they'll follow up, they'll follow up,
and then and then it dies, which is
okay. A lot of my ideas die, too. And to
me, that's a signal that it was supposed
to die, right? I'll just move on to the
next thing. Um, so it's those people
that maybe I'm just biased and they look
more like me, you know? Um, maybe that's
not an accurate signal or not, but if
they look more like me, then that's a
signal that they they should get further
down the line and actually launch
something that gets to revenue. Yeah.
>> In your head, think of one person you
know that should never start a business. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Why did you think of that person without
telling me who they are? because they
make a lot of money at their job and
they like their job well enough. They're
not miserable. Um, and they're in their
late 40s and they probably feel like it
would be too big of a risk to start something.
something.
>> And do you objectively agree that it
would be too big of a risk for them?
>> I do.
>> So, you're looking at that on a
risk-reward basis thinking the reward
doesn't out outweigh the risk here for you?
you?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz people come to me like
hoping that I'll encourage them to quit
their job, right? Like begging me to do
that without actually begging me. And I
don't want to do that. Like I I've never
had to quit a job. Like I I started with
entrepreneurship, right? So the thought
of being 48 with four kids and quitting
my $400,000 a year job to test
something. It just sounds crazy to me.
>> On the other hand, think of one person
you know that isn't an entrepreneur, but
definitely should be, but you always
think, "Why don't they do it?"
>> Yeah. Why did you think of that person?
>> Because it's a person that comes to me
the most often with ideas and they're
really, really good ideas. He's an
engineer. Um, and so he sees the world
in that way. Engineers make great
entrepreneurs. Um,
and he has a great work ethic and he's
like mid-career but not not so far
along. And I know objectively that he's not
not
he's actually quite miserable in his
job. And I hate that for him because I
see the talent that's there. And I want
him like I think he would excel and I
want to see that dream come true for him.
him.
>> Why isn't he doing it?
>> I think it it's insecurity. >> Fear.
>> Fear.
probably fear of just letting go of
something certain that's provided his
family a nice lifestyle and not getting
that back again ever. Um
I think that insecurities are at the
root of our best and our worst selves
and it can drive us to be our best or
worst selves um depending on how
self-aware we are about those insecurities.
insecurities.
Is there a little bit of a flaw in his
thinking in your perspective? Like why
is it you you still even though what
he's saying there about you know what
you think he believes there about the
security for his family is true you
still think he should
>> which suggests that there's some kind of
flaw you see in the way he's thinking
about it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
Because he doesn't have to quit his job.
um there's enough time in the day to do
this on the nights and weekends to to do
enough of it to really prove itself out.
whatever our side hustle is, uh it has a
very low ceiling if we're only working
on it um after hours, right? Let's say
we're spending 20 hours a week on a side
hustle and it makes us $50,000 a year,
but our job pays us $200,000 a year and
we spend 40 hours a week on that. One
thing that I've noticed, which is kind
of contradictory to how I feel about
quitting something, um, is when we go
from 20 hours a week on our the $50,000
a year side hustle to 40 hours a week
and we quit the full-time thing, that
$50,000 a year goes to 500,000, right?
We double the amount of hours, but we 10
times the amount of money that comes
from it because of the fact that we burn
the boats that it has to work. I just I
don't want people to burn the boats too
soon, right? Like there has to be a
pathway. Like let's say our Facebook ads
are converting really well. We've tested
scaling it and they're profitable and we
know what that would look like. But if
we scale it, then we're going to have
more customer service complaints. We're
going to have to do more architecture of
the website. But we like we see a path
to scaling and it's already profitable
and we know that like probably my boss
will take me back like we have kind of
these uh safety nets. That's like the
perfect time to really burn the boats.
Not when like we have an idea or we've
tested it a little bit but not
thoroughly. Um that's too soon in my opinion.
opinion.
>> And but by burn the boats you mean the
analogy of I guess some of the the
wartime leaders who would pull up on an
island that they were invading and burn
the boat so that they had no plan B.
>> Mhm. Exactly. Yeah. to quit.
>> Do you think that really matters? The
whole idea of a plan B. Do you think
people should have a plan B when they
embark on entrepreneurship?
Can I contradict myself 100%. All right.
So, the rational Chris, the Chris with
four kids says absolutely like you got
to be a dad, you got to be a husband,
you got to provide for your family,
right? Um, and again, there's so many
tools out there for testing, for
scaling, for outsourcing. We could find
a business partner to help pick up the
slack. We could use our kids, we could
use our spouse, whatever. There's so
many ways to really vet something out
before quitting that we don't have to quit.
quit. But
But
the other side of my mouth, there's been
um two times in my entrepreneurial
career when someone burned the boats for
me, right? I pull up to an island and
it's I've got my plan B. I'm testing
this business. This business is
profitable. It's paying the bills. And
then someone else in the middle of the
night, they snuck out. They burn my
boats and I wake up and I'm like, whoa,
where's my plan B? I wasn't ready to
burn those boats yet. Um, and plan A
just freaking thrives, right? And it's
not so much because of the fact that I
don't have a safety net anymore, but
it's because that event put a chip on my
shoulder that makes me want to to prove
those bad guys wrong. Right. To
oversimplify, those guys that burn my boat.
boat.
>> Toxic motivation.
>> Exactly. That's a that's a good way to
put it to show them I didn't need those
boats. I'm not going back, right? This
island is better than where I came from.
>> I remember reading about a study on Plan
B's where they got a group of students,
two groups, and then they told them to
do a puzzle to win a treat. And then in
one of the groups, they told them that
they could get this treat at a vending
machine down the hallway if they if they
wanted it after. And the group that
didn't understand they could get the
same reward from a plan B
>> worked significantly harder to complete
that puzzle.
>> So there's something in the human psyche
of know when you know that you could
>> get the reward in another way. When you
have a plan B, we work less hard at the
plan A.
>> Logically, maybe we should, you know,
practical and >> unresponsible
>> unresponsible
remove the plan B from our mind. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I just like I I can't think
of any stories from people in my sphere
of influence that have tested something,
quit the plan A, and then plan B just
failed and like they just lost
everything. Like surely that's happened,
right? That does happen when people like
prematurely quit, but in my experience,
it just it doesn't happen. Like it it
has the opposite effect. It becomes this
huge motivating factor. And when they
quit, I ask them like, "How do you feel?
Are you freaking out?" And it's always
always, "I'm so excited right now. Like,
I'm going to go all in on this. Like,
this has to work." And it does. It just does.
does.
>> A lot of people are looking for passive
income from side hustles. And I wondered
what your your op opinion was on passive
income because it's a word that comes up
so often in the comment section of this
channel, but when we're doing sort of
sentiment analysis and what people are
what they're interested in. Passive
income seems to be a bit of a buzz word.
>> Yeah, it's the silver bullet, right?
It's like it's the uh it's the financial
oic you could say.
>> What is passive income? How would how
would one define that? I would define it
as income that you receive um that you
don't have to continually put effort
towards like uh buying treasuries,
earning 4% on on your money and you
don't do anything and you just get paid.
And it's it's very hard to find
especially early on. Like we have to be
willing to create active income, sweaty
income, ugly income, like by whatever
means necessary. And the more we do
that, the longer we do that, the more um
realistic true passive income actually is.
is.
Sweaty, ugly income.
>> Yeah. Give me an example of some sweaty,
ugly income that anyone listening right
now could could create. What are your
favorite examples of non-obvious
businesses that people have started that
have resulted in passive, sweaty, ugly income?
income? >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
I mean, most things that I've started
have been just that. I had a uh a
concierge car buying business. Um
>> a concierge car buying business.
>> Yeah. What's that?
>> So, picture a traditional car
dealership, a used car dealership. You
got to get your dealer's permit. That uh
enables you legally to go to the
auctions and buy cars at wholesale, put
them on your lot, and sell them. So, I
did all the regulatory stuff. I got my
my dealer's permit, but then I would go
to individuals and they would say, "I
want a 2024 Seoia. I want it to be blue,
under 30,000 mi." and I would just go to
the auction and buy it for them for like
$700 fee. So, they get wholesale, they
save money, I make money, I don't have
to bear the inventory risk and I can buy
exactly what they want. Um, that sounds
great, right? On paper. People do that
business successfully. I didn't invent
it. I copied it, right? I hated it. Uh,
I was breaking down on the side of the
road driving these things back from the
auction. I'm not a car guy. I don't care
about cars. I don't work on cars. It's
not my passion. That was ugly. It was
hot in Texas. I was standing out on the
black top. I was making money. It was
profitable. And I got to the point where
I just like quit it. I just shut it
down. Moved on to something else. Um
that was very active. It was not
scalable on the surface. It was ugly. I
hated it. And so I pivoted because I had
a plan B. I didn't have to do that,
right? Um that's one example. Uh if
someone likes cars, it's it's a actually
a great business. Like I know a
gentleman in Alabama that makes a lot of
money doing that, right? For me it was
it was not great.
>> So how important then is passion in this
equation? Like how important it is for
for you to love the thing to be
successful at it in your view? I think
you need to fall in love with business
with commerce and if you can love
entrepreneurship turning $1 into two and
that like if you could focus on that
being your passion then anything that
falls underneath that you should win at,
right? But I I like to say
follow the profit. pro fit T. Um, until
you can afford to follow your passion,
right? Because if we're trying to follow
our passion from day one, we're probably
not ever going to get there because the
statistical likelihood that what we love
and what makes us money overlaps in the
beginning is almost zero. So, ignore
passion for a time. Try to build your
passion around commerce. Um, and then
start anything. And then once you're
able to have more passive income, then
start things that you're passionate
about like in the in the actual industry
that you're passionate about. >> Persistence.
>> Persistence.
Persistence is obviously going to create
repetitions to like understand the
problem to learn more to, you know, so I
wonder as it relates to passion and
persistence, they seem
>> sort of inextricably linked. Something
I'm more passionate about, I'm more
likely to continue at even when the
rewards don't show up. Yeah, like my car
my car business, right? I had no passion
for cars and I had another business that
was doing great. So, so I abandoned
that. Um, but people think that like
people sometimes look at themselves as
lazy or they're not a hard worker. And
so they're just they're not confident
that they could do this. But there's
like everyone is a hard worker. Everyone
on this planet has the same DNA that
enables them to work hard. But the
problem is what they're working on
probably gives them no energy, right?
They're probably not passionate about
it. So, what am I passionate about?
Well, we got to we got to test
everything. We have to try new things.
We have to take that curious question
and turn it into a business. Maybe
that's fun. Maybe it's not. Right? We
need more surface area for finding what
our passions actually are. Cuz we might
think that like like I love woodworking,
right? I don't have to build a business
around that cuz I love business, right?
So, I can build a business around
anything. But if I got super hung up on
like I cannot make a profit from this
woodworking business um then I would
fail at entrepreneurship if I started
there, right? Whereas if I approached
this from um the angle of all right, I
like woodworking. What else do I like?
Maybe I like running, maybe I like
cooking, maybe I like short form videos,
and I just start trying all those new
things. Then eventually I'm going to
have enough surface area for testing
that I'm going to find things where um
you've heard of the eeky guy principle. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. So what you love, what you're
good at, what the world needs, and what
you can charge for, right? The overlap
of that is the sweet spot. That's what's
scalable. That's what you can do until
you die. But if you get super hung up on
that on day one, like I'm just not
passionate about that, like you're never
going to find it. Like you're going to
be in that job forever. My career
follows the same same arc which is I
tried tons of things and then I built
this marketing business and then that
became more of a product business and
grew and I didn't love it. Like it
wasn't my passion to do um to help like
Coca-Cola sell more cans of Coke or like
you know Uber sell more Ubers
necessarily. That wasn't like my passion
in life. However, it taught me a bunch
of skills
>> which then in when I quit that business
and I spent some time in psychedelics,
DJing, building software, web 3, you
name it. Um I came out on the other side
and could ask myself that guy question
which is of all the things that I have
tried what is the thing that I would do
like really irrespective of money. Now I
had that luxury to do that and actually
in 2020 the answer was this. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Like this was the answer. This answer
was I I literally moved to London from
New York and found a place without
viewing it properly that looked like
this because I thought this would be a
good podcast set and moved into that
place called Jack and then we started
about five five years ago um doing doing
this weekly
>> and it's become a business off the back
of it.
>> But I didn't have that luxury at the
start. If I tried that from day one, I
wouldn't have had a the skills to know
how to scale an audience. Mhm.
>> I wouldn't have had the flexibility to
buy all these cameras which cost like 50
grand or whatever at the start. Um so
and I do think some people sometimes get
that inverted.
>> Yeah. And you you're not distracted
anymore, right? You're not looking for
the next DJ thing or like you found it.
You're here right now. You're focused on
scaling. It's like people get so hung up
on focus or lack thereof and they just
beat themselves up over it. But in my
experience, like a lack of focus is a
signal that there's something else out
there, right? right? Then maybe we
shouldn't be focusing on that thing cuz
you've probably worked on things that
had perfect product market fit and were
just crushing and you weren't thinking
about starting a DJing business at that point,
point,
>> right? You were all in on this one thing.
thing.
>> But in the times when you were working
on something, you're like, "Maybe I'll
try this. Maybe I'll try this." And you
beat yourself up. You're like, "Oh, and
focus, focus, focus." Like, "Let's
actually pay attention to those signals.
Why am I distracted from this thing?" So
that's I don't know if that's just me
coping with my own ADHD or if that's
actually a true principle, but I I try
to lend some credence to those signals
of distraction that I get on a regular basis.
basis.
>> Yeah, I have a a Sunday shelf,
>> which is just a digital board on my
Monday board where when I have ideas
that like captivate me at 11:00 p.m. at
night one night, instead of trying to
act on them immediately, cuz I think I'm
in some respects like you, I put it on
the Sunday shelf.
>> Mhm. And um I wait and see. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I wait and see how much it pulls at me
to come off the shelf.
>> And then sometimes it comes off the
shelf. I get a little bit of the way
down. I discover that actually there's
something I didn't realize. And then I
quit. But then there's this, you know,
when you think about the like the
excitement arc of a new idea. You have
the like initial surge of excitement
like this is the best thing ever. I'm
going to become a billionaire. Why has
no one ever thought of this before? And
then you kind of get into it and you get
into that sort of valley of oh this
is a terrible idea. I'm an idiot. Yep.
>> If I can come out of that valley, if if
something pulls me up out of that
valley, then I think it's worth pursuing.
pursuing.
>> Yeah, that's a good way of looking at
it. The the valley of despair or
something that's what they call it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you follow a similar sort of path
with idea your ideas? It's funny cuz I
my kind of framework is
if I have an idea, am I thinking about
it still two weeks later? For whatever
reason, that's just my timeline. Two
weeks. I had an idea yesterday and I was
at the airport. I was excited about it
and I was doing research. I like forgot
about it, right? Who cares, you know?
But I have ideas where I just cannot get
it out of my head and I'll see something
out there in the world that adds to the
idea and I tell my friend about it and I
I send these manic voicemails or these
manic voice notes to my friends about it
and I'm still thinking about it 2 weeks
later. That's my signal that there's
actually something here. Um,
>> you used the word validating earlier on
when you're talking about these ideas
and I I think this is something that
could really really help a lot of people
who have a lot of ideas is this idea of
trying to validate your ideas as fast as possible.
possible. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> How might one validate an idea and can
you give me an example of an idea that
you have validated? What does validation mean?
mean?
>> Mhm. Yeah. So, I like to see people get
joy from my product or service, right?
Not just like, well, it's good. Like
let's say I'm selling a food product. It
tastes good. It's good. Okay, people
might buy this, but I'm not going to
have product market fit. I'm going to be
pushing a boulder up the hill, right?
But if people are like, "Oh my gosh,
this is the best thing I've ever had.
Where did you make this? How did you
make this?" It lights up in their face.
That's an example of a validation in my
case, right? Same industry, food
product, completely different reactions,
right? So, one specific example is um my
wife has a cookie bar business, right?
Square cookies, and they're amazing. And
we're not trying to scale it. We don't
want to scale it. It's a way to teach
our kids entrepreneurship, and we love
it. But the best way to validate this
was going to our local farmers market
and just posting up and just giving
people samples and just watching them,
right? What do they say versus how do
they react? And is it the same?
>> What do you mean by that?
>> Well, sometimes we try to use the
internet in places where it's it's not
needful, right? She sold these online,
right? She shipped them to friends and
family across the country. Like, they're
great. We love them. Okay. I didn't see
you eat it. I don't know how you
actually love it. Are you saying that
because you're my mom, right? Or you're
my friend. But when you solicit feedback
on your product or service in person,
even if it's like an internet tool or an
app, in person makes all the difference.
You want to take note of what they say
and take note of their body language and
how they react when they experience your
product or service, right? And if all
three of those things overlap, then
either they're a psychopath and they're
just lying for no good reason or you
have something really special on your
hands. Uh, and so that's what we did
with her cookie bar business. And um,
and they loved it. And you can do that
with any business. It doesn't have to be food.
food.
>> And what does validation mean? is it's
checking if the market gives a
about the thing you're making as fast as
you can. Yeah. Yeah. Um I like to kind
of picture a you know a boulder up a
hill, right? And most people in their
businesses, even businesses that are
working, there are two steps forward,
one step back. Two steps forward, one
step back. And that's okay. Like that's
not a bad thing. But in my experience,
5% of the time I'll have a business
where the boulder is chasing me. Like
I'm trying to not die because this
boulder's chasing me down a hill. And
that boulder in this case represents
customers demand, right? Like I can't
sleep because I'm fulfilling orders. I'm
answering emails like I'm not getting
distracted by the next shiny object.
That is validation. That's product
market fit in my experience. You don't
have to have that to launch. I don't
want people to misunderstand. Um but if
you have that, like you have something
very special and you need to go all in
on that thing. There was a book
published uh several years ago called
the lean startup which talks about this
idea of just like testing an MVP as
quick quick quickly as you possibly can.
>> Can you explain that to the audience who
probably have ideas but in their head
are thinking I've got to quit my job.
I'm going to have to raise money. I'm
going to have to spend two to three
years building something to figure out
if this is a good idea or not. What is
the alternative approach that you adopt
when you're trying to stress test an
idea quickly?
>> Yeah. So, if I had to pick one tool, I
mean, it's one that one in four humans
use every day, and it's Facebook, right?
You've got Facebook groups, you got
WhatsApp, um, Instagram, Facebook
Marketplace, Facebook pages, uh,
Facebook ads, right? Let's just say
there's six different meta products,
Facebook products. That's everything you
need right there, right? Why why don't
you give me an example of just a random
business and I'll I'll tell you or the
the audience how they could validate
that with a Facebook product.
>> Okay. Um
I'm thinking of starting a
creatine brand for women that has makes
creatine taste good. Okay. All right.
Are we talking powder gummy? What form factor?
factor?
>> I don't know.
>> Okay. Well, let's let's try both. Okay.
So, I'm going to do something that seems
very non-obvious and probably won't
work, but it's the lowest amount of
friction. I'm going to take a
description for that and I'm going to
use Nano Banana, Chad GBT, any of the AI
image generators to come up with what
the product could look like, right? In
both a gummy form and a powder form.
Okay. Then I'm going to go to Facebook
Marketplace. You You're just going to
post a photo.
>> Yeah. I'm just going to say like women's
creatine brand actually tastes good.
tastes good, right? Like, did you know
that creatine and improves cognitive
function or whatever? Just your standard
pitch. I could even use AI to generate
it. It doesn't really matter at this
point and I'm gonna post it to Facebook
marketplace simply because that's the
lowest amount of friction to get some
level of validation or not, right?
Because in my experience, focus is
overrated and momentum is underrated,
right? And so you could have told me any
idea and my first step that I tell you
to do is going to be something very very
low friction because I want you to get
something back from the world, right?
Cuz the most likely way to sell that
product is with meta ads, right? But
there's a lot of friction there. Like
it's it's hard to use. So you're going
to be like, "Okay, you're going to go
choose met ads and you're going to burn
out and you're going to have be on to
something else by tomorrow." But that
might be an amazing idea, right? So, I'm
going to tell you to go to Facebook
Marketplace, even though people don't
sell creatine on Facebook Marketplace.
And then we're going to see, you know,
Facebook gives us like three stats when
you post something to Facebook
Marketplace clicks and then how many
people that reach out and then how many
views. Okay, so I'm going to post one
Facebook Marketplace ad for the gummies.
Different picture. It'll look like
gummies. Um, basically same headline,
same benefit, same description. post to
Facebook in the same local market with
the same radius. Don't want to change
any variables. And then I'm going to
open a Google sheet and I'm going to say
how many views, how many clicks, how
many messages for that ad. Then I'm
going to do the same thing. Take the
same features, the same benefits,
different picture cuz this one's powder.
Post it in the same market with the same
radius to Facebook Marketplace and have
a new column um views, reachouts, and um
clicks, right? And then I'm going to
watch and I'm going to see what's
getting more clicks and I'm going to
know within two hours where there's more
demand. Now, does that little sample
size indicate like what form factor I
should go all in on? Not necessarily,
but it's something. It's a relevant data
point, right? There's not very likely to
be a large amount of people searching
for creatine gummies on Facebook
Marketplace, but it doesn't matter
because there's two billion people using
it, right? So, we're just trying to
capture some of that traffic. So, I'm
going to do that with two ads. And then
after a day or two, I'm going to boost
those two ads, put $10 behind each of
them to see how my results differ. Does
it make any difference? Do I get a lot
more clicks, a lot more views, or is it
just wasted? And then I'm going to um
I'm going to probably post like 10 more
ads of like different photos, different
headings, different descriptions,
different price points, and then put all
those in a Google sheet and track it.
All right. Now, I have a lot of data.
Now, concurrently, so while I'm doing
all these things, I'm going to go to
Facebook groups and I'm going to join
Facebook groups like moms who work out,
moms who love creatine, moms who love
rucking, ultrarunner moms, like healthy
moms, whatever. I'm going to join all
these groups and just start doing
searches for creatine, gummies, powders,
price points, vendors, websites, and
just start like pulling pieces of data
out of out of the atmosphere, right? and
I'm gonna put that in my spreadsheet and
I want to wait till the Facebook
marketplace tests are done. I want to do
that at the same time. Then I'm going to
start learning Facebook ads because
everything I've told you to do so far
takes like 2 hours. Let's say we have an
afternoon to dedicate to this, right?
Then I'm going to learn Facebook ads and
I'm going to watch a YouTube video
about, you know, how to get Facebook ads
up in 10 minutes. How important is it to
understand Facebook ads and how long
would it take me to get a sufficient
understanding of Facebook ads? you could
be proficient in a couple days if if you
had like one thing to sell and you just
wanted to go all in on that thing. Um,
and you actually learned by launching
ads and not just learning, not just
endlessly watching YouTube videos, you
could be fairly proficient uh within a
couple days easily. Do you think that's
the skill everybody should have?
>> Absolutely. I mean, Facebook ads are
like the infinite money glitch. It's
just like a a magic money machine. It's
the reason they're a trillion dollar
company. Um, it's like a cheat code.
Yeah. It's a We should know Facebook ads
like we know how to write emails. Like
we should know Facebook ads like we know
how to build websites or to do anything.
It should be foundational. H
H
I wonder how many people actually have
that skill. Very few. That's why there
are so many ad agencies charging a lot
of money.
>> And then so you've got the data back
into your spreadsheet on this creatine
situation. How do you then make a
decision whether this is something worth pursuing?
pursuing?
>> Yeah. Then I would go find like a a
c-acker that could
>> it's a company that will take my idea
and put it into a physical form, right?
Um I'd find like a supplement company
that could actually make this and I
would tell it roughly like what I'm
thinking and then ask for samples and
then I would use those samples to go get
feedback from people in person, right?
But I wouldn't get those samples until I
got feedback from all these Facebook
tests telling me what form factor, what
price point, what color, what flavor,
um, etc. And then I would go to a
farmers market and actually have people
try it. I've had so many founders speak
to me and say, "Why didn't this
particular ad that I ran on this
platform work for me?" Maybe the copy
wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong,
but usually the problem is they're not
having the right conversation because
that ad never reached the right person.
And if you're in B2B marketing, that is
much of the game. And this is where
LinkedIn ads solves that problem for
you. Their targeting is ridiculously
specific. You can target by job title,
seniority, company size, industry, and
even someone's skill set. And their
network includes over a billion
professionals, about 130 million of them
are decision makers. So when you use
LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand
in front of the right people. And
LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B
return on ad spend across all ad
networks in my experience. If you want
to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary.
linkedin.com/diary.
And when you spend $250 on your first
LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an
extra $250 credit from me for the next
one. That's linkedin.com/diary.
Terms and conditions apply.
>> I've heard you say that there's various
types of entrepreneurs. There's the sort
of zero to one entrepreneur who's good
at starting things. There's the maintainer. And then there's the
maintainer. And then there's the finisher.
finisher. >> Which one are you?
>> Which one are you? >> I'm a starter. Yeah. Through and
>> I'm a starter. Yeah. Through and through. I
through. I if I stay in a business too long, it all
if I stay in a business too long, it all falls apart, right? Just objectively.
falls apart, right? Just objectively. So, I need to hand off the reigns at a
So, I need to hand off the reigns at a very specific point or I need to have a
very specific point or I need to have a partner from the outset that knows me,
partner from the outset that knows me, my strengths and my weaknesses um that
my strengths and my weaknesses um that just takes over at a certain point. So,
just takes over at a certain point. So, I like to say there are starters,
I like to say there are starters, maintainers, and finishers. A starter
maintainers, and finishers. A starter could be called like a visionary and not
could be called like a visionary and not as like a backhanded compliment way, but
as like a backhanded compliment way, but someone an idea guy, right? Not just a
someone an idea guy, right? Not just a business idea guy, but like a marketing
business idea guy, but like a marketing idea guy. Uh, let's change the subject
idea guy. Uh, let's change the subject line to this idea guy. Like a an idea
line to this idea guy. Like a an idea machine, right? That's a visionary. And
machine, right? That's a visionary. And then you have the maintainer, which
then you have the maintainer, which would be an operator. That's a guy that
would be an operator. That's a guy that just wakes up every day and loves
just wakes up every day and loves tweaking little things, making small
tweaking little things, making small improvements. uh process oriented,
improvements. uh process oriented, someone that loves growing something and
someone that loves growing something and just fixing little problems all day,
just fixing little problems all day, right? And then you have a finisher,
right? And then you have a finisher, which is like a deal guy, right? That's
which is like a deal guy, right? That's the guy that's a super connector. Uh he
the guy that's a super connector. Uh he likes to, oh, you need to talk to Barry.
likes to, oh, you need to talk to Barry. And then he calls him, he connects them,
And then he calls him, he connects them, and like he just gets a lot of energy
and like he just gets a lot of energy from connecting deals, coming up with
from connecting deals, coming up with creative deals for an exit, for a sale,
creative deals for an exit, for a sale, putting people together, hiring the
putting people together, hiring the right people, um seeing something to its
right people, um seeing something to its completion. Um, but I'm definitely in
completion. Um, but I'm definitely in the first camp.
the first camp. >> Is it possible to be all three?
>> Is it possible to be all three? >> Yeah. When you're all three, you're Mark
>> Yeah. When you're all three, you're Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, truly, like you
Zuckerberg. I mean, truly, like you start something from scratch and you see
start something from scratch and you see it to a trillion dollars. Um, there's
it to a trillion dollars. Um, there's been like I think there have been three
been like I think there have been three people on the planet that have brought
people on the planet that have brought something from zero to a trillion.
something from zero to a trillion. Jensen Wang, Nvidia, um, Elon Musk, and
Jensen Wang, Nvidia, um, Elon Musk, and Mark Zuckerberg. I think like even Bill
Mark Zuckerberg. I think like even Bill Gates, even Steve Jobs, I might be
Gates, even Steve Jobs, I might be wrong. Yeah. But even Steve Jobs got out
wrong. Yeah. But even Steve Jobs got out long before they hit a trillion market
long before they hit a trillion market cap.
cap. >> But a billion, a lot of people get zero
>> But a billion, a lot of people get zero to a billion.
to a billion. >> That's not nothing. Also very
>> That's not nothing. Also very impressive. But when you get all three,
impressive. But when you get all three, that's what you get.
that's what you get. >> One of the things that I find really
>> One of the things that I find really interesting about your story is you
interesting about your story is you you've started what is it 75 80
you've started what is it 75 80 businesses.
businesses. >> Mhm. When I speak to people like Kevin
>> Mhm. When I speak to people like Kevin Olirri who have worked with some of the
Olirri who have worked with some of the greatest entrepreneurs to ever live like
greatest entrepreneurs to ever live like Steve Jobs and he's very familiar with
Steve Jobs and he's very familiar with Elon Musk, they talk to me about focus.
Elon Musk, they talk to me about focus. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And he says to me that the great thing
>> And he says to me that the great thing about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal
about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he
and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he was focused on the most important thing
was focused on the most important thing and he was brutal about not entertaining
and he was brutal about not entertaining anything else. M
anything else. M >> Johnny Ives has famously said that the
>> Johnny Ives has famously said that the one thing Steve Jobs was most known for
one thing Steve Jobs was most known for is his remarkable ability to focus. He
is his remarkable ability to focus. He would literally ask you what have you
would literally ask you what have you said no to in order to focus on the most
said no to in order to focus on the most important thing.
important thing. >> Uh I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his
>> Uh I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his unbelievable ability to focus. I
unbelievable ability to focus. I remember uh several people at Meta but
remember uh several people at Meta but also I think it's a public story telling
also I think it's a public story telling me that when he realized he was late to
me that when he realized he was late to mobile he refused to take any meetings
mobile he refused to take any meetings about anything other than mobile like
about anything other than mobile like extreme levels of focus.
extreme levels of focus. >> And then Kevin Olirri from Shark Tank
>> And then Kevin Olirri from Shark Tank said the same to me about Elon Musk. He
said the same to me about Elon Musk. He says Elon Musk is the only person that I
says Elon Musk is the only person that I think operates close to 100% signal
think operates close to 100% signal which is he and I interviewed Walter
which is he and I interviewed Walter Isaac and his biographer and he said
Isaac and his biographer and he said Elon will sit in a meeting and if people
Elon will sit in a meeting and if people aren't talking about something that is
aren't talking about something that is the most important thing he'll
the most important thing he'll completely zone out and then the minute
completely zone out and then the minute he hears something that he considers to
he hears something that he considers to be the most important thing it's like he
be the most important thing it's like he snaps into reality and he takes control
snaps into reality and he takes control and he's deep into the detail and I it
and he's deep into the detail and I it sits in contradiction to a lot of the
sits in contradiction to a lot of the the narrative of like lots of side
the narrative of like lots of side hustles, lots of businesses, do as many
hustles, lots of businesses, do as many things as you can. How do you but you've
things as you can. How do you but you've both kind of you know you've managed to
both kind of you know you've managed to create a life for yourself where you're
create a life for yourself where you're you're a millionaire and you're free in
you're a millionaire and you're free in that regard
that regard >> but when I look at the biggest companies
>> but when I look at the biggest companies in the world there's this like there
in the world there's this like there appears to be obsessive focus.
appears to be obsessive focus. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I love that question. I I think that all
>> I love that question. I I think that all else equal the guy who focuses more is
else equal the guy who focuses more is more likely to be a billionaire. But
more likely to be a billionaire. But back to momentum, right? The person that
back to momentum, right? The person that keeps and has and mo maintains momentum
keeps and has and mo maintains momentum and has gets energy from what they do,
and has gets energy from what they do, they're more likely to be a millionaire
they're more likely to be a millionaire by the average than the average person,
by the average than the average person, right? I I genuinely have no desire to
right? I I genuinely have no desire to be a billionaire. Genuinely, if I get
be a billionaire. Genuinely, if I get there, cool. But I don't want to leave
there, cool. But I don't want to leave my kids tens of millions of dollars
my kids tens of millions of dollars anyway. I know where I get most of my
anyway. I know where I get most of my energy from. I have a lot of surface
energy from. I have a lot of surface area for this. I've tried the focus.
area for this. I've tried the focus. I've tried having a board. I don't want
I've tried having a board. I don't want any of that. Genuinely, I don't. Right.
any of that. Genuinely, I don't. Right. So, if my life with hyperfocused Chris
So, if my life with hyperfocused Chris looks like billion-dollar exits, uh,
looks like billion-dollar exits, uh, reporting to a board, uh, being chairman
reporting to a board, uh, being chairman of the board, being CEO, um, sitting in
of the board, being CEO, um, sitting in meetings all day, that's miserable
meetings all day, that's miserable Chris, right? And if I'm not going to,
Chris, right? And if I'm not going to, if I don't want to leave a ton of money
if I don't want to leave a ton of money to my kids anyway, then why am I making
to my kids anyway, then why am I making Chris miserable so my fourth great
Chris miserable so my fourth great grandkids can be rich instead of just my
grandkids can be rich instead of just my second great grandkids? Like that's
second great grandkids? Like that's that's genuinely how I look at it. I'm
that's genuinely how I look at it. I'm one of my superpowers is my my long-term
one of my superpowers is my my long-term perspective, right? I think of things on
perspective, right? I think of things on an eternal scale. And if I have to have
an eternal scale. And if I have to have a miserable life so my kids in year 2300
a miserable life so my kids in year 2300 can still be wealthy, forget that. Like
can still be wealthy, forget that. Like I don't I don't I don't want them to
I don't I don't I don't want them to have all that money anyway, you know? So
have all that money anyway, you know? So I want to live an awesome life where I'm
I want to live an awesome life where I'm a good and present father. And to me
a good and present father. And to me that looks like focusing less, not more.
that looks like focusing less, not more. What if you focused for the next 10
What if you focused for the next 10 years? You made it to a billion dollars
years? You made it to a billion dollars on one thing
on one thing >> and then because you've done that you
>> and then because you've done that you can take even more sort of experimental
can take even more sort of experimental bets
bets >> with higher risk and more enjoyment and
>> with higher risk and more enjoyment and more sort of pleasure ccentric bets over
more sort of pleasure ccentric bets over the next 40 50 60 years of the rest of
the next 40 50 60 years of the rest of your life.
your life. >> Yeah, I just don't think that that juice
>> Yeah, I just don't think that that juice would be worth the squeeze. I think that
would be worth the squeeze. I think that those bigger bets that I take will just
those bigger bets that I take will just amount to more meetings and more travel
amount to more meetings and more travel and more time away from my kids. And I
and more time away from my kids. And I don't like it might sound controversial
don't like it might sound controversial like I'm I'm not trying to change the
like I'm I'm not trying to change the world. Like I want to help people start
world. Like I want to help people start businesses and I can do that with my
businesses and I can do that with my iPhone. Uh and that will change the
iPhone. Uh and that will change the world, right? But I'm not trying to
world, right? But I'm not trying to solve world hunger. I think that's
solve world hunger. I think that's someone else's problem to solve. And so
someone else's problem to solve. And so I I just want to be a good dad and work
I I just want to be a good dad and work on really cool things. And it's been a
on really cool things. And it's been a it's been a grind to get here, right?
it's been a grind to get here, right? Like I've had more years with zero
Like I've had more years with zero income than I've had up years, right?
income than I've had up years, right? But my up years have more than
But my up years have more than compensated for my down years. So what
compensated for my down years. So what you're looking at today is the end
you're looking at today is the end result of 17 years of a lot of testing.
result of 17 years of a lot of testing. Like a very patient wife that was
Like a very patient wife that was unquestioning and unwavering and
unquestioning and unwavering and extremely loyal, which I could not have
extremely loyal, which I could not have done it without. Um, and so there were a
done it without. Um, and so there were a lot of periods in my life where I beat
lot of periods in my life where I beat myself up over that lack of focus. I
myself up over that lack of focus. I went and got my MBA because of my lack
went and got my MBA because of my lack of focus. I finished my undergrad
of focus. I finished my undergrad because of my lack of focus. Like how
because of my lack of focus. Like how getting a full-time job has never really
getting a full-time job has never really been off the table until the last five
been off the table until the last five or so years. So I've I've never been
or so years. So I've I've never been unwilling to get a job or to focus. U
unwilling to get a job or to focus. U and I probably did it the hard way,
and I probably did it the hard way, honestly. Um, but I'm to the point now
honestly. Um, but I'm to the point now where I don't feel the need to focus all
where I don't feel the need to focus all on one thing. Did you ever feel guilty
on one thing. Did you ever feel guilty because of the situation you put your
because of the situation you put your family or your partner in?
family or your partner in? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. More than once. Yeah. More than many
More than once. Yeah. More than many times.
times. Give me an example. I spent
Give me an example. I spent I spent 18 months working on a project
I spent 18 months working on a project um
um that had no cash flow along the way with
that had no cash flow along the way with the hope of a big payout. Um, and we
the hope of a big payout. Um, and we were making no income, right? And I was
were making no income, right? And I was focused on this one thing. And that is
focused on this one thing. And that is kind of the downside of focus is if you
kind of the downside of focus is if you focus on the wrong thing, it can really
focus on the wrong thing, it can really come back to bite you, right? But to me,
come back to bite you, right? But to me, this was objectively the right thing. It
this was objectively the right thing. It was showing all the signals it was
was showing all the signals it was growing. Um, we we had like a few rental
growing. Um, we we had like a few rental homes, we had some assets, and I was
homes, we had some assets, and I was selling those things so my family could
selling those things so my family could maintain their quality of life, right?
maintain their quality of life, right? So I felt guilty but I was also
So I felt guilty but I was also insulating them from feeling the the
insulating them from feeling the the pinch that I was feeling in the office,
pinch that I was feeling in the office, right? And then at the end of that
right? And then at the end of that experiment it all went to zero. I was
experiment it all went to zero. I was out money, I was out time, I was out
out money, I was out time, I was out everything. And I felt I felt very
everything. And I felt I felt very guilty. That was one one example. Um
guilty. That was one one example. Um but thankfully like we we didn't have to
but thankfully like we we didn't have to sell our house. We didn't have to do
sell our house. We didn't have to do anything drastic. And what that looked
anything drastic. And what that looked like at home was dad was quiet more
like at home was dad was quiet more often than not. Dad was grumpy more
often than not. Dad was grumpy more often than not, but dad wasn't really
often than not, but dad wasn't really talking freely and openly about the
talking freely and openly about the things he was going through because he
things he was going through because he was trying to, you know, put on a brave
was trying to, you know, put on a brave face and insulate um the family from
face and insulate um the family from that. Even when my wife was begging to
that. Even when my wife was begging to know more to get more out of me, I just
know more to get more out of me, I just if I talk about stressors, then it
if I talk about stressors, then it becomes more stressful to me often
becomes more stressful to me often times. So, I just keep it in.
times. So, I just keep it in. >> I find the same. I think my partner
>> I find the same. I think my partner understands this of me and I tried to
understands this of me and I tried to explain to her that I don't like talking
explain to her that I don't like talking about the stress because
about the stress because >> in this environment you're it's actually
>> in this environment you're it's actually d-stressing me from not having to
d-stressing me from not having to explain and conversate about it.
explain and conversate about it. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So, which is a bit of a paradox because
>> So, which is a bit of a paradox because then they don't really understand.
then they don't really understand. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And if they don't understand, they might
>> And if they don't understand, they might misunderstand. Misunderstandments might
misunderstand. Misunderstandments might lead to arguments and the arguments
lead to arguments and the arguments create stress and then you're going to
create stress and then you're going to have to tell them in some sort of like
have to tell them in some sort of like argument what's going on.
argument what's going on. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've lived that for sure. I
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've lived that for sure. I don't know how to navigate that, but but
don't know how to navigate that, but but it's definitely true that me going
it's definitely true that me going through something in work and then
through something in work and then having to come home and like go through
having to come home and like go through it for another hour to someone else and
it for another hour to someone else and stress them out potentially.
stress them out potentially. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Doesn't feel like the right approach.
>> Doesn't feel like the right approach. >> No, but I don't know what the right
>> No, but I don't know what the right approach is because they they have a
approach is because they they have a right to know about it as well, right?
right to know about it as well, right? >> I think we just need an outlet whether
>> I think we just need an outlet whether it's a friend that kind of understands
it's a friend that kind of understands or someone else that,
or someone else that, >> you know, is in our space that we can
>> you know, is in our space that we can just talk to about the situation. I
just talk to about the situation. I think having no outlet is also bad.
think having no outlet is also bad. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm guilty of that. I I
>> Yeah. And I'm I'm guilty of that. I I find a lot of joy in my work and so I I
find a lot of joy in my work and so I I don't look at it as work often, but it's
don't look at it as work often, but it's still work, right? Like it's still
still work, right? Like it's still taxing. Um so I need to be better about
taxing. Um so I need to be better about having an outlet.
having an outlet. >> Have you developed a new relationship
>> Have you developed a new relationship with rejection and failure because, you
with rejection and failure because, you know, starting 80 odd businesses, you
know, starting 80 odd businesses, you must have dealt with a lot of failure.
must have dealt with a lot of failure. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And and how does that feed into
>> And and how does that feed into everything we're talking about today?
everything we're talking about today? Oh man, I would I don't know where I'd
Oh man, I would I don't know where I'd be without rejection and failure. Um I'm
be without rejection and failure. Um I'm not good at sales. So if anyone's
not good at sales. So if anyone's watching this and like I can't start a
watching this and like I can't start a business, business is all sales. Like
business, business is all sales. Like you don't have to be good at sales. I'm
you don't have to be good at sales. I'm not good at sales. I I can't think of a
not good at sales. I I can't think of a business that where I had to rely on
business that where I had to rely on like early customers coming from friends
like early customers coming from friends and family cuz I cared a lot about what
and family cuz I cared a lot about what people thought. I didn't want to post my
people thought. I didn't want to post my side hustle number 37 to Facebook cuz I
side hustle number 37 to Facebook cuz I just thought my friends would roll their
just thought my friends would roll their eyes. So I created this stupid
eyes. So I created this stupid constraint for me where like I had to
constraint for me where like I had to launch things without the help of my
launch things without the help of my ever willing friends and family because
ever willing friends and family because I was too prideful, right? So I I advise
I was too prideful, right? So I I advise against that first of all. Second of
against that first of all. Second of all, um I served a mission for my
all, um I served a mission for my church. I went to Eastern Europe for two
church. I went to Eastern Europe for two years and I knocked doors in Hungarian
years and I knocked doors in Hungarian for two years straight. I approached
for two years straight. I approached people on the street in freezing weather
people on the street in freezing weather wearing a big Russian hat. Like I got
wearing a big Russian hat. Like I got rejected tens of thousands of times over
rejected tens of thousands of times over the course of two years being an
the course of two years being an introvert, staying an introvert, still
introvert, staying an introvert, still an introvert, still bad at sales, still
an introvert, still bad at sales, still hating sales today at age 38, right? But
hating sales today at age 38, right? But that like changed me as a man, as a
that like changed me as a man, as a person, right? That rewired my brain to
person, right? That rewired my brain to just realize that every no is closer to
just realize that every no is closer to a yes. If my conversion rate is 0.1%, I
a yes. If my conversion rate is 0.1%, I got to talk to a thousand people and I
got to talk to a thousand people and I will surely get a conversion. If I talk
will surely get a conversion. If I talk to a thousand and I don't get a
to a thousand and I don't get a conversion, then I'm going to get two
conversion, then I'm going to get two conversions by the time I get to 2,000,
conversions by the time I get to 2,000, statistically speaking. So, I just need
statistically speaking. So, I just need to keep getting rejected. Um, and that
to keep getting rejected. Um, and that changed everything for me. I think it's
changed everything for me. I think it's super underrated to give kids a job in
super underrated to give kids a job in like cold sales.
like cold sales. >> Mhm. It's what I did when I was 16 till
>> Mhm. It's what I did when I was 16 till 19. Sounds like it's what you did
19. Sounds like it's what you did >> as a young man. Are your kids going to
>> as a young man. Are your kids going to do that? Yeah, hopefully. And two of my
do that? Yeah, hopefully. And two of my kids are introverts, two are
kids are introverts, two are extroverted, but uh they will they are
extroverted, but uh they will they are selling like they already have
selling like they already have businesses, little side hustles here and
businesses, little side hustles here and there. Um but I am encouraging them to
there. Um but I am encouraging them to go on missions and to do selling because
go on missions and to do selling because it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like
it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like it's the fastest way to test. If I talk
it's the fastest way to test. If I talk to a thousand people, then I can have a
to a thousand people, then I can have a thousand different approaches and if my
thousand different approaches and if my conversion rate is 0.1%. Um, I'm going
conversion rate is 0.1%. Um, I'm going to get that to 5% over time because I'm
to get that to 5% over time because I'm able to test and iterate and and pivot
able to test and iterate and and pivot based on all that feedback I get.
based on all that feedback I get. >> What have you learned about team
>> What have you learned about team building and business partners through
building and business partners through this process? What advice would you give
this process? What advice would you give to someone who's sat there alone
to someone who's sat there alone listening to this right now? Do they
listening to this right now? Do they need a business partner? If they do,
need a business partner? If they do, who, how, what? Oh man. Um,
who, how, what? Oh man. Um, usually people don't need a business
usually people don't need a business partner. Um, if you look at the stats on
partner. Um, if you look at the stats on like business failure rates with
like business failure rates with companies that have co-founders, it's
companies that have co-founders, it's significantly higher than companies that
significantly higher than companies that have solo founders. We see the
have solo founders. We see the survivorship bias examples, right? The
survivorship bias examples, right? The the Apples and the a lot of companies we
the Apples and the a lot of companies we can look at that had two co-founders
can look at that had two co-founders that that won, but nobody talks about or
that that won, but nobody talks about or writes about the 90 60 80% of companies
writes about the 90 60 80% of companies that fail with co-founders. Think about
that fail with co-founders. Think about it this way. When we get married, we'll
it this way. When we get married, we'll spend years talking about our potential
spend years talking about our potential plans, like big goals, like where do we
plans, like big goals, like where do we want to live? How many kids do we have?
want to live? How many kids do we have? My wife and I wanted seven kids when we
My wife and I wanted seven kids when we got married. We settled on four, right?
got married. We settled on four, right? It changed over time. It took years to
It changed over time. It took years to change. We realized kids are actually
change. We realized kids are actually freaking hard, right? And we So then
freaking hard, right? And we So then we're like, where do we live? What kind
we're like, where do we live? What kind of a house do we want? We spend all this
of a house do we want? We spend all this time, maybe while we're engaged, maybe
time, maybe while we're engaged, maybe while we're dating, maybe after we're
while we're dating, maybe after we're married. But those are big decisions,
married. But those are big decisions, right? But when we choose a business
right? But when we choose a business partner, we go get avocado toast
partner, we go get avocado toast together and we're like, "50-50, cool,
together and we're like, "50-50, cool, sounds good. Let's do this." You know,
sounds good. Let's do this." You know, I'll get the doc signed. It's like, who
I'll get the doc signed. It's like, who is that guy? You might have even known
is that guy? You might have even known him your whole life, but who is he as a
him your whole life, but who is he as a business partner or as a business
business partner or as a business person? I just I feel like business
person? I just I feel like business partnerships are significantly harder
partnerships are significantly harder than marriages even. But we put 99% less
than marriages even. But we put 99% less thought into like the structure of
thought into like the structure of things. And that's a giant failure that
things. And that's a giant failure that I've made over and over again. What do
I've made over and over again. What do you wish someone had said to you in the
you wish someone had said to you in the situations where it didn't work out with
situations where it didn't work out with business partners or really like across
business partners or really like across the board? Because I I read that you'd
the board? Because I I read that you'd had what, seven business partners? It
had what, seven business partners? It says that I've had like 15.
says that I've had like 15. >> Okay. So, in those 15 occasions, what is
>> Okay. So, in those 15 occasions, what is the advice you wish someone had given
the advice you wish someone had given you before you engaged in those business
you before you engaged in those business relationships? Yeah. Well, what do they
relationships? Yeah. Well, what do they say about dating? It's like be a be a
say about dating? It's like be a be a good like the best way to find a good
good like the best way to find a good spouse is to be a good spouse. Best way
spouse is to be a good spouse. Best way to find a good girlfriend. You know what
to find a good girlfriend. You know what I'm saying? You've got to learn more
I'm saying? You've got to learn more about yourself before you partner with
about yourself before you partner with someone else. Most people have no idea
someone else. Most people have no idea like who they are as a business person
like who they are as a business person or as an entrepreneur when they partner.
or as an entrepreneur when they partner. They don't know what their strengths are
They don't know what their strengths are or their weaknesses are. They sure don't
or their weaknesses are. They sure don't know what the other guys strengths or
know what the other guys strengths or weaknesses are. So, I suggest people
weaknesses are. So, I suggest people solo found things to start to learn more
solo found things to start to learn more about themselves. Are they a visionary?
about themselves. Are they a visionary? Are they an integrator, starter,
Are they an integrator, starter, maintainer, finisher? Who are they? And
maintainer, finisher? Who are they? And then when they want to jump into another
then when they want to jump into another thing, because inevitably if we launch
thing, because inevitably if we launch one thing, we're going to launch more.
one thing, we're going to launch more. they know more about what to look for in
they know more about what to look for in a partner. Um, and they can optimize for
a partner. Um, and they can optimize for that. What about equity?
that. What about equity? Yeah. I mean, 50/50 is the old standby,
Yeah. I mean, 50/50 is the old standby, right? Um, could you imagine if you like
right? Um, could you imagine if you like you go on a first date and it's like,
you go on a first date and it's like, how many kids do you want? Four. Okay,
how many kids do you want? Four. Okay, we'll have four. We'll get married and
we'll have four. We'll get married and that's how many we will have. Uh, no
that's how many we will have. Uh, no matter what. That's a 50/50 partnership,
matter what. That's a 50/50 partnership, right? It's making an incredibly
right? It's making an incredibly important decision based on they both
important decision based on they both equal 100. Numbers sound clean to me,
equal 100. Numbers sound clean to me, but like what is the statistical chance?
but like what is the statistical chance? This is what needs to be true for a
This is what needs to be true for a 50/50 partnership to work. Okay, they
50/50 partnership to work. Okay, they both have to be allin. They both have to
both have to be allin. They both have to always be allin for the whole lifespan
always be allin for the whole lifespan of the business. Maybe years, maybe
of the business. Maybe years, maybe decades. They have to put in the same
decades. They have to put in the same amount of money, same amount of effort,
amount of money, same amount of effort, same amount of connections, value,
same amount of connections, value, history, background. Also, both of them
history, background. Also, both of them should be completely selfless, right?
should be completely selfless, right? And not care if the other one's not
And not care if the other one's not pulling his weight. I'm taking a
pulling his weight. I'm taking a month-long vacation. Cool. You'll make
month-long vacation. Cool. You'll make up for it later. They have to be like
up for it later. They have to be like that chill of a human being. And of
that chill of a human being. And of course, like they have to be the same as
course, like they have to be the same as the other person. If all those things
the other person. If all those things are true, 50/50 works great.
are true, 50/50 works great. >> And they need to develop going forward
>> And they need to develop going forward in the same way because for the next 10
in the same way because for the next 10 future,
future, >> they need to grow at the same rate.
>> they need to grow at the same rate. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which will never never ever be the
>> Yeah. Which will never never ever be the case. So, I like to say like you don't
case. So, I like to say like you don't want to uh DTR, define the relationship
want to uh DTR, define the relationship too early or too late. If you sit down
too early or too late. If you sit down at brunch and you're like, "Let's do
at brunch and you're like, "Let's do 50/50. Cool." Big mistake. If you you're
50/50. Cool." Big mistake. If you you're 2 years down the line and you've got all
2 years down the line and you've got all this revenue and customers and you're
this revenue and customers and you're like, "All right, we should probably
like, "All right, we should probably formalize this." Too late. Cuz like that
formalize this." Too late. Cuz like that only works if the business just stays at
only works if the business just stays at like a steady state forever, which it
like a steady state forever, which it won't. It's going to go up or it's going
won't. It's going to go up or it's going to go down, right? And like things get
to go down, right? And like things get really ugly when either one of those two
really ugly when either one of those two scenarios happen. So the sweet spot in
scenarios happen. So the sweet spot in my experience is listen, this is how
my experience is listen, this is how this conversation would would work.
this conversation would would work. We're going to partner together. Hey, um
We're going to partner together. Hey, um I think you're going to be great for
I think you're going to be great for this business because you have a sales
this business because you have a sales background. You're great at sales. You
background. You're great at sales. You have a lot of contacts in the industry.
have a lot of contacts in the industry. I don't have any of that. I don't even
I don't have any of that. I don't even like sales. I don't know anything about
like sales. I don't know anything about sales. But I'm an amazing engineer. Like
sales. But I'm an amazing engineer. Like I know I can build this thing. You've
I know I can build this thing. You've seen me build other websites, other apps
seen me build other websites, other apps in the past. I already have like a
in the past. I already have like a wireframe in mind. Like, we're going to
wireframe in mind. Like, we're going to be great for this, right? So, let's just
be great for this, right? So, let's just do this. I don't know how this is going
do this. I don't know how this is going to go. I don't know how much time you
to go. I don't know how much time you have. We both have full-time jobs. Um,
have. We both have full-time jobs. Um, why don't we just get to $10,000 in
why don't we just get to $10,000 in revenue? Um, let's get product market
revenue? Um, let's get product market fit. Let's get some good traction. Maybe
fit. Let's get some good traction. Maybe we'll get like you really have to set a
we'll get like you really have to set a a defined metric around it. Not like
a defined metric around it. Not like let's see how this goes in 30 days, but
let's see how this goes in 30 days, but something like a revenue number, number
something like a revenue number, number of customers, or something. at that
of customers, or something. at that point, let's sit down. Let's just like
point, let's sit down. Let's just like put it in the calendar today and let's
put it in the calendar today and let's have a conversation about what our
have a conversation about what our equity looks like. Uh because almost
equity looks like. Uh because almost every time they're going to be remote
every time they're going to be remote just based on the world we live in or
just based on the world we live in or one person will put in more money or one
one person will put in more money or one person has more experience. Um and all
person has more experience. Um and all those things are are relevant, but
those things are are relevant, but >> you're going to get resentment
>> you're going to get resentment >> 100%. And you're probably not going to
>> 100%. And you're probably not going to talk about that resentment and it's only
talk about that resentment and it's only going to get worse. um it'll only get
going to get worse. um it'll only get worse if you know things either go up or
worse if you know things either go up or down. So they they will always get
down. So they they will always get worse. Um but it's it's hard to define
worse. Um but it's it's hard to define because one person might have 30 years
because one person might have 30 years of industry experience and contacts and
of industry experience and contacts and expertise and he can make one phone call
expertise and he can make one phone call that changes everything and the other
that changes everything and the other person might be 18 years old and just a
person might be 18 years old and just a hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a
hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a week. So is the level of value the same
week. So is the level of value the same if the level of hours put into the
if the level of hours put into the business not the same?
business not the same? It's hard. Like it's it's really hard to
It's hard. Like it's it's really hard to say, "Hey, my one phone call made us 10
say, "Hey, my one phone call made us 10 millions of dollars, tens of millions of
millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, but you've done all the work.
dollars, but you've done all the work. You're the operator, so we should be
You're the operator, so we should be 50/50." They're both going to take issue
50/50." They're both going to take issue with that. The only instance I was
with that. The only instance I was thinking about all the business
thinking about all the business partnerships that I'm aware of. So
partnerships that I'm aware of. So companies I've invested in. There's
companies I've invested in. There's about 60 or 70 companies I've invested
about 60 or 70 companies I've invested in and then businesses I've started
in and then businesses I've started myself. And the one time I've seen it
myself. And the one time I've seen it work to split equally, the two people
work to split equally, the two people had known each other for a long long
had known each other for a long long time and they were both late in their
time and they were both late in their career. M
career. M >> so they're like you know when we think
>> so they're like you know when we think about rate of development and potential
about rate of development and potential not only did they have a strong
not only did they have a strong relationship they'd known each other a
relationship they'd known each other a long time they'd worked together for
long time they'd worked together for more than 5 years together and they're
more than 5 years together and they're sort of later in a more mature phase of
sort of later in a more mature phase of their career
their career >> where you know like the kids situation's
>> where you know like the kids situation's figured itself out are they going to
figured itself out are they going to have kids or not and there hasn't been
have kids or not and there hasn't been some of the big life disruptors that
some of the big life disruptors that sometimes can come along and change
sometimes can come along and change things and then I can think of another
things and then I can think of another example where um two people knew each
example where um two people knew each other. They were very, very young.
other. They were very, very young. They'd worked together before. The
They'd worked together before. The contract went in 50/50, although it was
contract went in 50/50, although it was never really equal. And then their rate
never really equal. And then their rate of growth changed wildly where one
of growth changed wildly where one person
person >> really just like became a superstar. And
>> really just like became a superstar. And they look back at the contract and it
they look back at the contract and it was 50/50. And I remember being privy to
was 50/50. And I remember being privy to the conversation where that person
the conversation where that person turned around to their business partner
turned around to their business partner was like, "This is not fair."
was like, "This is not fair." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> This company without me goes to zero.
>> This company without me goes to zero. Without you, it keeps growing.
Without you, it keeps growing. >> Yeah. And there was an adjustment made
>> Yeah. And there was an adjustment made to the equity at that point, which is
to the equity at that point, which is hard to do because of tax reasons and
hard to do because of tax reasons and stuff. But
stuff. But >> yeah, the one thing I will say about a
>> yeah, the one thing I will say about a 50/50 and going in with someone that
50/50 and going in with someone that you've known for a long time, or going
you've known for a long time, or going in with your best friend, that can be
in with your best friend, that can be really freaking fun. Like, it can just
really freaking fun. Like, it can just be the most enjoyable life ever. So,
be the most enjoyable life ever. So, it's just very high risk and very high
it's just very high risk and very high reward. And if you can make it work,
reward. And if you can make it work, like often times the biggest and the
like often times the biggest and the best and the most well-ran companies you
best and the most well-ran companies you see were 50/50 partners that knew each
see were 50/50 partners that knew each other for a long time for that reason.
other for a long time for that reason. Um, but the rate of failure is higher
Um, but the rate of failure is higher than average. So, in these uh three
than average. So, in these uh three suitcases in front of me, I have
suitcases in front of me, I have different amounts of money.
different amounts of money. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And all I want you to do is to let me
>> And all I want you to do is to let me know if I was giving you this amount of
know if I was giving you this amount of money, what business you would start.
Okay, so the first one has
has $500 here.
$500 here. Awesome. So, most people would look at
Awesome. So, most people would look at this and think, "What am I going to do
this and think, "What am I going to do with $500?" That's a lot of money,
with $500?" That's a lot of money, right? In in the age of today with
right? In in the age of today with 30-day free trials and uh a lot of
30-day free trials and uh a lot of Silicon Valley funded companies willing
Silicon Valley funded companies willing to give you a lot of money to test your
to give you a lot of money to test your product, this goes a long way. So the
product, this goes a long way. So the first thing to come to mind that comes
first thing to come to mind that comes to mind is probably my favorite business
to mind is probably my favorite business idea of all right now and thankfully you
idea of all right now and thankfully you can start it with even less than this
can start it with even less than this and that would be a business that helps
and that would be a business that helps implement AI into small businesses small
implement AI into small businesses small to mediumsiz businesses. So some facts
to mediumsiz businesses. So some facts for you there's 400 million small
for you there's 400 million small businesses on the planet. They've
businesses on the planet. They've surveyed some of these business owners
surveyed some of these business owners um and 77% of them have admitted that
um and 77% of them have admitted that like AI would be transformational to
like AI would be transformational to their business. They need AI. It's not a
their business. They need AI. It's not a fad. It's not going away. 5% of them
fad. It's not going away. 5% of them have claimed they're using AI in a
have claimed they're using AI in a meaningful way, right? And define that
meaningful way, right? And define that as you will. So, basically, we have this
as you will. So, basically, we have this knowledge gap, right? We know it's like
knowledge gap, right? We know it's like a it's like a business cognitive
a it's like a business cognitive dissonance, if you will. We know we need
dissonance, if you will. We know we need to do something and we're not doing it.
to do something and we're not doing it. Doesn't matter how easy the tools are.
Doesn't matter how easy the tools are. Doesn't matter how much you can create a
Doesn't matter how much you can create a new website or an app with one prompt.
new website or an app with one prompt. Um, they need someone to do it, right? I
Um, they need someone to do it, right? I know how to vacuum my floor. I know how
know how to vacuum my floor. I know how to clean my house. I still would rather
to clean my house. I still would rather just pay someone to do it. Okay. And so
just pay someone to do it. Okay. And so with a fifth of the money, call it a
with a fifth of the money, call it a $100, I would start learning some vibe
$100, I would start learning some vibe coding tools. Um, Replet, Lindy, there's
coding tools. Um, Replet, Lindy, there's a ton of them out there.
a ton of them out there. >> What is vibe coding for anyone that
>> What is vibe coding for anyone that doesn't?
doesn't? >> Vibe coding is the non-technical person,
>> Vibe coding is the non-technical person, the non-coder such as myself using their
the non-coder such as myself using their natural language to just say, "Hey,
natural language to just say, "Hey, build me an app that manages customers
build me an app that manages customers for dog trainers." You'll have an app,
for dog trainers." You'll have an app, right? Is it fully functional? Is
right? Is it fully functional? Is workable yet? Not quite, but 10 to 20
workable yet? Not quite, but 10 to 20 more prompts and you're good to go.
more prompts and you're good to go. >> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I
>> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I would suggest I'm an investor in both
would suggest I'm an investor in both Lovable and Replet. So, disclaimer, but
Lovable and Replet. So, disclaimer, but I would recommend going on Replet or
I would recommend going on Replet or Lovable and um typing in any website ID
Lovable and um typing in any website ID you have just to have that sort of
you have just to have that sort of eureka moment of watching it be made in
eureka moment of watching it be made in front of you. I think that Eureka moment
front of you. I think that Eureka moment is the moment your mind expands to the
is the moment your mind expands to the possibilities that are currently right
possibilities that are currently right in front of all of us.
in front of all of us. >> Yes. You know, we think of building
>> Yes. You know, we think of building websites or apps as exclusive to those
websites or apps as exclusive to those that have spent 5 years learning to
that have spent 5 years learning to code. That has now changed.
code. That has now changed. >> Yeah, we can all do it. Yeah. And
>> Yeah, we can all do it. Yeah. And everyone should, like you said, one
everyone should, like you said, one prompt, develop an app. Oh, what do I
prompt, develop an app. Oh, what do I prompt? What do I build? Ask Chad GBT
prompt? What do I build? Ask Chad GBT what to build. Copy paste one of those.
what to build. Copy paste one of those. Ask Chad to prompt it. Take it over to
Ask Chad to prompt it. Take it over to repletter lovable, paste it, and see
repletter lovable, paste it, and see what it builds. So, I would use this as
what it builds. So, I would use this as my education and also to build a
my education and also to build a website, right? Chris's automations.com,
website, right? Chris's automations.com, whatever, anything. And then I would
whatever, anything. And then I would take the rest of the money and I would
take the rest of the money and I would put it into ads, right? Um, preferably
put it into ads, right? Um, preferably meta ads, Facebook ads, and I would
meta ads, Facebook ads, and I would target local businesses. Even though
target local businesses. Even though this is a global thing, if I live in
this is a global thing, if I live in Omaha, Nebraska, I could sell this to
Omaha, Nebraska, I could sell this to people in Tokyo. Doesn't matter. I'm
people in Tokyo. Doesn't matter. I'm going to put a radius around Omaha and
going to put a radius around Omaha and my ads are going to say, "I'm Chris and
my ads are going to say, "I'm Chris and I can help put AI into your business."
I can help put AI into your business." I'm going to use fifth grade words. I'm
I'm going to use fifth grade words. I'm not going to use LLM. I'm not even going
not going to use LLM. I'm not even going to say Chad GPT. I'm just going to say,
to say Chad GPT. I'm just going to say, I will make your business more money or
I will make your business more money or save your business money with AI, just a
save your business money with AI, just a service business. And then I'll get on
service business. And then I'll get on discovery calls with these business
discovery calls with these business owners and I'll just start peppering
owners and I'll just start peppering them with questions about their
them with questions about their business. And over time, I'm going to
business. And over time, I'm going to learn based on their answers what their
learn based on their answers what their problems are, what they're struggling
problems are, what they're struggling with. Is it hiring? Is it payroll? Is it
with. Is it hiring? Is it payroll? Is it sales? Usually, it's going to be sales,
sales? Usually, it's going to be sales, right? And then I'm going to take this
right? And then I'm going to take this money over here, this $100, and go back
money over here, this $100, and go back to those apps and start building
to those apps and start building solutions for them for free. just to
solutions for them for free. just to kind of implement myself as an expert.
kind of implement myself as an expert. >> And what are you going to charge them?
>> And what are you going to charge them? >> I'm going to charge them between $500
>> I'm going to charge them between $500 and $5,000 upfront one time to implement
and $5,000 upfront one time to implement it. And then I'm going to charge them
it. And then I'm going to charge them 20% of that amount in an ongoing basis
20% of that amount in an ongoing basis to maintain it and fix it as it breaks.
to maintain it and fix it as it breaks. Let's say there's a gutter cleaning
Let's say there's a gutter cleaning business in Omaha, Nebraska that doesn't
business in Omaha, Nebraska that doesn't want to take calls after hours. He's
want to take calls after hours. He's with his wife watching Netflix and he
with his wife watching Netflix and he knows that's a $3,000 job. he doesn't
knows that's a $3,000 job. he doesn't want to take it. So, it's going to
want to take it. So, it's going to voicemail and they're calling someone
voicemail and they're calling someone else that is taking it, right? So, I'm
else that is taking it, right? So, I'm going to build an AI voice agent for
going to build an AI voice agent for him, which sounds really intimidating.
him, which sounds really intimidating. It feels like we have to have all these
It feels like we have to have all these skills. You don't. You just need to
skills. You don't. You just need to prompt a couple tools a couple times.
prompt a couple tools a couple times. I'm going to build a voice agent for him
I'm going to build a voice agent for him and then I'm going to tell him to call
and then I'm going to tell him to call that agent as if he were a customer and
that agent as if he were a customer and say, "Hey, pretend you're a customer
say, "Hey, pretend you're a customer that needs uh gutter cleaning. You're
that needs uh gutter cleaning. You're calling at 9:30 p.m. and just see how it
calling at 9:30 p.m. and just see how it reacts." He's expecting there to be a
reacts." He's expecting there to be a delay. There's really not. He's
delay. There's really not. He's expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's
expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's expecting it to need to know all about
expecting it to need to know all about his business. It doesn't, right? The AI
his business. It doesn't, right? The AI knows about gutter cleaning businesses.
knows about gutter cleaning businesses. Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000
Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000 for that. You build it and then you
for that. You build it and then you charge them, call it 500 or 600 a month
charge them, call it 500 or 600 a month to maintain it over time. And then the
to maintain it over time. And then the beautiful thing is you can go to every
beautiful thing is you can go to every other gutter cleaning business in Omaha
other gutter cleaning business in Omaha or anywhere and copy and paste that same
or anywhere and copy and paste that same app and sell it to them.
app and sell it to them. >> Gotcha. So selling AI to small business
>> Gotcha. So selling AI to small business owners who are in huge demand but don't
owners who are in huge demand but don't have the time or think they need some
have the time or think they need some sort of incredible
sort of incredible expensive time and resource expensive
expensive time and resource expensive competence to understand AI when
competence to understand AI when actually AI is really really simple.
actually AI is really really simple. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> And we see this play out over history
>> And we see this play out over history where there's an initial arbitrage when
where there's an initial arbitrage when a new technology comes into play. Mhm.
a new technology comes into play. Mhm. >> In fact, one of the call center jobs
>> In fact, one of the call center jobs that I had when I was very very broke
that I had when I was very very broke many many years ago when I was like 18
many many years ago when I was like 18 um or 19 was calling businesses from the
um or 19 was calling businesses from the yellow pages and selling them Facebook
yellow pages and selling them Facebook ads.
ads. >> I would call a builder on a building
>> I would call a builder on a building site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner
site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner of the building company and I'd explain
of the building company and I'd explain Facebook ads to him over the phone and
Facebook ads to him over the phone and then I'd set them up for him and manage
then I'd set them up for him and manage them for him on an ongoing basis and
them for him on an ongoing basis and just send him the leads
just send him the leads >> because he didn't understand Facebook
>> because he didn't understand Facebook ads. And these opportunities seem to
ads. And these opportunities seem to exist
exist >> for years when there's a new technology
>> for years when there's a new technology as as we're seeing with AI.
as as we're seeing with AI. >> But the thing is with that idea and with
>> But the thing is with that idea and with most ideas in my experience, we think
most ideas in my experience, we think there's a very limited time span. But if
there's a very limited time span. But if I were to start that business today and
I were to start that business today and just start calling, it would work.
just start calling, it would work. >> Yeah, you could still do it. Yeah, I
>> Yeah, you could still do it. Yeah, I might have more competitors, but like it
might have more competitors, but like it it doesn't matter. It would still work.
it doesn't matter. It would still work. Interestingly, the the issue back then
Interestingly, the the issue back then was people didn't even know what
was people didn't even know what Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to
Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to some degree better now. People have
some degree better now. People have heard the word.
heard the word. >> Yeah. You were pretty early. Yeah, it
>> Yeah. You were pretty early. Yeah, it was 2015 or something.
was 2015 or something. >> So, it was it was quite rough, but it
>> So, it was it was quite rough, but it was a business nonetheless. Yeah.
was a business nonetheless. Yeah. >> And there was 40 other people in the
>> And there was 40 other people in the room with me in that call center doing
room with me in that call center doing it.
it. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> So, that's the first idea you have.
>> So, that's the first idea you have. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> What else? $500. What else could you do?
>> What else? $500. What else could you do? >> Okay. Do you want a uh you want a
>> Okay. Do you want a uh you want a physical business or an online business?
physical business or an online business? Or does it not matter?
Or does it not matter? >> What about a physical one?
>> What about a physical one? >> All right. For a physical one, I would
>> All right. For a physical one, I would um have you heard of dropervicing?
um have you heard of dropervicing? >> No. So the phrase drop shipping has kind
>> No. So the phrase drop shipping has kind of has a bad rap and some of it for good
of has a bad rap and some of it for good reason which is basically buying a
reason which is basically buying a product in China uh having a website for
product in China uh having a website for it and basically having the Chinese
it and basically having the Chinese manufacturer or the supplier ship it
manufacturer or the supplier ship it directly to your customer so you don't
directly to your customer so you don't have to take possession of the inventory
have to take possession of the inventory right drop servicing is doing something
right drop servicing is doing something similar with a service call it a let's
similar with a service call it a let's call it a home service business right so
call it a home service business right so in this case it would look like um a
in this case it would look like um a garage repair company that has a website
garage repair company that has a website that looks like they have a physical
that looks like they have a physical presence in a market, but is really just
presence in a market, but is really just a lead genen factory, right? And so what
a lead genen factory, right? And so what you're doing is you're using Facebook or
you're doing is you're using Facebook or Google ads to generate leads, kind of
Google ads to generate leads, kind of like what you were doing on Facebook um
like what you were doing on Facebook um for a local business, and then you're
for a local business, and then you're you're instead of just selling the leads
you're instead of just selling the leads for $20, you're actually doing more of
for $20, you're actually doing more of the work. You're you're subcontracting
the work. You're you're subcontracting out the work to a local business that
out the work to a local business that actually repairs garage doors. They're
actually repairs garage doors. They're the fulfillment arm of the business.
the fulfillment arm of the business. You're the marketing arm of the
You're the marketing arm of the business. So, in essence, you have a
business. So, in essence, you have a garage repair um business without
garage repair um business without actually having one. Like, you don't
actually having one. Like, you don't know anything about garage doors. You've
know anything about garage doors. You've never been on site. You're just drop
never been on site. You're just drop servicing. You're you're sending all the
servicing. You're you're sending all the work to a local company to do it.
work to a local company to do it. >> So, I a car repair company. I I put up a
>> So, I a car repair company. I I put up a car repair website. I use Facebook ads
car repair website. I use Facebook ads to drive people towards it. When they
to drive people towards it. When they click to buy my my car repair, I call a
click to buy my my car repair, I call a local car repair person and say, "Hey,
local car repair person and say, "Hey, I've got a customer here for you. Um can
I've got a customer here for you. Um can you take them?" I book the customer in.
you take them?" I book the customer in. >> They handle the car repair. I take the
>> They handle the car repair. I take the payment and pay the garage. Yep. Great
payment and pay the garage. Yep. Great question. So, let's just say in your
question. So, let's just say in your example, um, an oil change at at some at
example, um, an oil change at at some at Bob's car repair that doesn't have a
Bob's car repair that doesn't have a website is 40 bucks, which is a great
website is 40 bucks, which is a great price. Your website is clean, it's nice,
price. Your website is clean, it's nice, they can pay with a few clicks and it's
they can pay with a few clicks and it's 80 bucks, right? So, you call Bob one
80 bucks, right? So, you call Bob one day and say, "Hey, congratulations. I
day and say, "Hey, congratulations. I have a lead. I don't have a lead. I have
have a lead. I don't have a lead. I have a customer. I want to send you $40. Her
a customer. I want to send you $40. Her name is Mary. She's going to be coming
name is Mary. She's going to be coming in. She has a sequoia. She needs an oil
in. She has a sequoia. She needs an oil change, right? And so Mary just
change, right? And so Mary just interacts with you. She's trusting you
interacts with you. She's trusting you with the money. You don't have to trust
with the money. You don't have to trust Bob with the money. Uh you just send Bob
Bob with the money. Uh you just send Bob the money. You make even more margin
the money. You make even more margin than Bob makes. Right? It's a higher
than Bob makes. Right? It's a higher price service, but what you're charging
price service, but what you're charging for is the better UI, the better user
for is the better UI, the better user experience, and having a a cleaner
experience, and having a a cleaner checkout method. And is there particular
checkout method. And is there particular types of businesses you would target
types of businesses you would target with that approach? Are you targeting
with that approach? Are you targeting ones that have a shitty customer
ones that have a shitty customer experience, bad website, etc. in the
experience, bad website, etc. in the home services, like take your pick. Um,
home services, like take your pick. Um, they pretty much all do, right? Um,
they pretty much all do, right? Um, there are some more established
there are some more established industries like roofing that don't have
industries like roofing that don't have those issues, uh, because they have
those issues, uh, because they have higher margins, so they can afford
higher margins, so they can afford better websites, but um, they pretty
better websites, but um, they pretty much all have a bad experience.
much all have a bad experience. >> Any others at that $500 level that stand
>> Any others at that $500 level that stand out to you?
out to you? >> Yeah, I love um, directory websites.
>> Yeah, I love um, directory websites. What's that?
What's that? >> So, Travel Velocity is a directory
>> So, Travel Velocity is a directory website. Yelp is a directory website.
website. Yelp is a directory website. It's a website with a list of things
It's a website with a list of things that helps people find answers to their
that helps people find answers to their questions more easily. So, another
questions more easily. So, another example of a website could be like
example of a website could be like Wisconsin um ice suppliers.com. I don't
Wisconsin um ice suppliers.com. I don't know if that's a website, right? Where
know if that's a website, right? Where if I need to go buy ice for my party,
if I need to go buy ice for my party, I'm going to Google ice near me. Um some
I'm going to Google ice near me. Um some categories are so niche or so unevenly
categories are so niche or so unevenly distributed that Google Maps is not a
distributed that Google Maps is not a good solution for it. Right? So, you're
good solution for it. Right? So, you're directed to these random directory
directed to these random directory websites that are just lists of other
websites that are just lists of other businesses. Um, and what people are
businesses. Um, and what people are doing is they're proactively creating
doing is they're proactively creating their own directories by scraping uh
their own directories by scraping uh let's say every dog park in Seattle,
let's say every dog park in Seattle, Washington, and putting them on a
Washington, and putting them on a website and then they don't they don't
website and then they don't they don't even drive traffic to it. There's no
even drive traffic to it. There's no paid ads. They just wait for Google and
paid ads. They just wait for Google and for SEO to do its trick. And it's very
for SEO to do its trick. And it's very much an 8020 rule. you could kind of
much an 8020 rule. you could kind of build the architecture for a directory
build the architecture for a directory website with replet or lovable and then
website with replet or lovable and then you just copy and paste it right in
you just copy and paste it right in different markets. Uh so the play here
different markets. Uh so the play here is to have dozens of directory websites
is to have dozens of directory websites and some of them make $0 a month, some
and some of them make $0 a month, some make a few hundred, some make a few
make a few hundred, some make a few thousand, but it's very passive. It's
thousand, but it's very passive. It's like one of those rare things that's
like one of those rare things that's passive yet also doesn't need a ton of
passive yet also doesn't need a ton of money to get to get started.
money to get to get started. >> Where's the money coming from? Where's
>> Where's the money coming from? Where's the revenue?
the revenue? >> Great question. You can either do like
>> Great question. You can either do like display ads.
display ads. >> What's a display ad? just a banner ad on
>> What's a display ad? just a banner ad on a website.
a website. >> And are you having to go and sell that
>> And are you having to go and sell that ad to someone that wants to buy it?
ad to someone that wants to buy it? >> You would just take Google's like ad
>> You would just take Google's like ad network and just put it on your website.
network and just put it on your website. So you don't have to do anything.
So you don't have to do anything. >> So you can just click a button and it'll
>> So you can just click a button and it'll add adverts to your website which you'll
add adverts to your website which you'll you'll then paid for.
you'll then paid for. >> Yep. Or you could um you could just
>> Yep. Or you could um you could just aggregate those leads. Like if we had
aggregate those leads. Like if we had dog parks in Seattle and you know we see
dog parks in Seattle and you know we see on our Google Analytics that we're
on our Google Analytics that we're driving traffic to this one dog park,
driving traffic to this one dog park, then we reach out to them proactively
then we reach out to them proactively and say, "Hey, you notice all these
and say, "Hey, you notice all these customers you've been getting?" That's
customers you've been getting?" That's because I put you on my website. Would
because I put you on my website. Would you like to pay $300 a year or a month
you like to pay $300 a year or a month or whatever for priority placement?
or whatever for priority placement? Right? So, I like to call this
Right? So, I like to call this permissionless marketing. Um, you're
permissionless marketing. Um, you're just proactively adding these businesses
just proactively adding these businesses to a website. They have nothing to lose.
to a website. They have nothing to lose. You have nothing to lose. And then once
You have nothing to lose. And then once you see traffic, then you reach out to
you see traffic, then you reach out to them and say, "Hey, I've been bringing
them and say, "Hey, I've been bringing you more business. Would you like to
you more business. Would you like to start paying for that?"
start paying for that?" >> Interesting.
>> Interesting. And how much money can someone hope to
And how much money can someone hope to make if they execute that strategy well
make if they execute that strategy well in your view? What's realistic
in your view? What's realistic >> with a directory website? It could be
>> with a directory website? It could be tens of dollars a month and it could be
tens of dollars a month and it could be tens of thousands of dollars a month,
tens of thousands of dollars a month, but we're not talking about building
but we're not talking about building another Yelp or Travel Velocity. This is
another Yelp or Travel Velocity. This is a zero employee business with that cost
a zero employee business with that cost almost nothing, less than $100 to start.
almost nothing, less than $100 to start. Um, but it's just a numbers game. You're
Um, but it's just a numbers game. You're not really going to know what directory
not really going to know what directory really hits until months have passed and
really hits until months have passed and until you have a lot of surface area for
until you have a lot of surface area for these experiments.
these experiments. I hear a lot of people talking about
I hear a lot of people talking about vending machines online and I've always
vending machines online and I've always been really curious about that. People
been really curious about that. People say you can make money from vending
say you can make money from vending machines.
machines. >> Yeah. Could you do that with $500?
>> Yeah. Could you do that with $500? >> Absolutely. So, if we were doing another
>> Absolutely. So, if we were doing another physical business, um I would go to
physical business, um I would go to Facebook Marketplace and I would find an
Facebook Marketplace and I would find an existing vending machine uh for $3 to
existing vending machine uh for $3 to $400, right? That could be a snack or a
$400, right? That could be a snack or a drink vending machine. Um often times
drink vending machine. Um often times the expensive part of a vending machine
the expensive part of a vending machine is the credit card reader. It can often
is the credit card reader. It can often cost more or as much as the whole
cost more or as much as the whole machine itself. And then I would use a
machine itself. And then I would use a $100 to stock the machine um with
$100 to stock the machine um with Costco. Costco Sam's Club is where all
Costco. Costco Sam's Club is where all of these operators buy their snacks,
of these operators buy their snacks, believe it or not. And then I just need
believe it or not. And then I just need one business owner to give me a chance
one business owner to give me a chance um to allow me to put the vending
um to allow me to put the vending machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a
machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a car repair business. I can say, "Hey,
car repair business. I can say, "Hey, I'll pay you 100 bucks a month or hey,
I'll pay you 100 bucks a month or hey, I'll split the revenue with you. I'll
I'll split the revenue with you. I'll give you 30% of the revenue." And then
give you 30% of the revenue." And then once I have one, that's the hardest
once I have one, that's the hardest part. Now you have a track record. Now,
part. Now you have a track record. Now, you can say, "Hey, Bob's Auto Repair
you can say, "Hey, Bob's Auto Repair makes $700 a month passively cuz he let
makes $700 a month passively cuz he let me put uh this vending machine there."
me put uh this vending machine there." This is a business that can be passive
This is a business that can be passive if you have an employee to restock it.
if you have an employee to restock it. That is the active part of the business
That is the active part of the business is the restocking and the selling of new
is the restocking and the selling of new locations. Um, but if you have an ATM,
locations. Um, but if you have an ATM, then that becomes even easier because
then that becomes even easier because you can outsource all of the restocking
you can outsource all of the restocking to a cash management company.
to a cash management company. >> How much money could one person hope to
>> How much money could one person hope to make from a vending machine business?
make from a vending machine business? And have you ever run this business
And have you ever run this business yourself?
yourself? >> I have. I've actually been in a
>> I have. I've actually been in a different part of the vertical. I've
different part of the vertical. I've sold vending machines. I posted a a
sold vending machines. I posted a a video to Instagram that got tens of
video to Instagram that got tens of millions of views and we started just
millions of views and we started just importing those vending machines that I
importing those vending machines that I was talking about in the video uh and
was talking about in the video uh and then selling them to entrepreneurs. But
then selling them to entrepreneurs. But the level of revenue is I mean it's as
the level of revenue is I mean it's as much as you want to scale it. I have a
much as you want to scale it. I have a friend in San Diego that makes seven
friend in San Diego that makes seven figures a year uh on vending machines,
figures a year uh on vending machines, just snacks and drinks. Is there an art
just snacks and drinks. Is there an art to good vending machine placement or the
to good vending machine placement or the right things to sell in the vending
right things to sell in the vending machine or anything else?
machine or anything else? >> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that
>> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that because he said, you know, I'm in San
because he said, you know, I'm in San Diego, people are health consscious here
Diego, people are health consscious here and he tested all these healthy concepts
and he tested all these healthy concepts and they all failed. Like people want
and they all failed. Like people want Doritos and Coke and Diet Coke, right?
Doritos and Coke and Diet Coke, right? So that's all they have now. That's
So that's all they have now. That's where the demand is. But the biggest
where the demand is. But the biggest needle mover on this is the location.
needle mover on this is the location. And it's a matter of testing. Back to
And it's a matter of testing. Back to testing, right? Testing what types of
testing, right? Testing what types of locations he landed on. um apartment
locations he landed on. um apartment complexes, like apartment lobbies. He
complexes, like apartment lobbies. He tried auto repair shops and they just
tried auto repair shops and they just weren't high volume. But it's the type
weren't high volume. But it's the type of business kind of like directories
of business kind of like directories where if you have a 100 vending
where if you have a 100 vending machines, um you're going to have 20 of
machines, um you're going to have 20 of them that make $3,000 a month each and
them that make $3,000 a month each and then you're going to have 80 of them
then you're going to have 80 of them that make $400 a month each. But once
that make $400 a month each. But once you find out what types of locations are
you find out what types of locations are the most profitable, then you just start
the most profitable, then you just start directly reaching out to those types of
directly reaching out to those types of locations.
locations. >> I've just finished writing my third
>> I've just finished writing my third book. I haven't firmed up the title yet,
book. I haven't firmed up the title yet, but I have started mocking up some
but I have started mocking up some different designs. And I've been doing
different designs. And I've been doing this with Adobe Express, which is one of
this with Adobe Express, which is one of our sponsors. What I love about Adobe
our sponsors. What I love about Adobe Express is that it makes it so easy for
Express is that it makes it so easy for me to obsess over the tiniest details.
me to obsess over the tiniest details. The typography, the font, the color, the
The typography, the font, the color, the text placement, the stuff that might
text placement, the stuff that might sound petty to most people, but actually
sound petty to most people, but actually compounds to create something that
compounds to create something that stands out, something that's one better
stands out, something that's one better than the rest. And designing my cover
than the rest. And designing my cover art has reminded me of how many creative
art has reminded me of how many creative things I've learned over the year. But
things I've learned over the year. But it's also reminded me that there are so
it's also reminded me that there are so many creative minds around me that are
many creative minds around me that are also sitting on their own secrets. So
also sitting on their own secrets. So I've created the one better guide in
I've created the one better guide in Adobe Express to bring those tips to
Adobe Express to bring those tips to you. And in it, you'll find principles
you. And in it, you'll find principles from the very, very best in their
from the very, very best in their industry turned into quick and easy
industry turned into quick and easy practices for you to apply. So you can
practices for you to apply. So you can train yourself to create exactly like
train yourself to create exactly like the best performing teams in the world
the best performing teams in the world do. Just head over to adobe.
do. Just head over to adobe. One better to download Adobe Express
One better to download Adobe Express now. And make sure you visit the learn
now. And make sure you visit the learn tab to discover how you can become one
tab to discover how you can become one better than the rest. You know, every
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ketone.com/stephven for 30% off. You'll also get a free gift with your second
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shipment. And now you can find Keton IQ at Target stores across the United
at Target stores across the United States where your first shot is
States where your first shot is completely free of charge. Um, so I have
completely free of charge. Um, so I have another box here. This box
another box here. This box has slightly more money in double. Okay.
has slightly more money in double. Okay. $1,000. What would you do with $1,000?
$1,000. What would you do with $1,000? All right. So,
All right. So, for whatever reason, when I see $1,000,
for whatever reason, when I see $1,000, I think um about the wedding rental
I think um about the wedding rental business. Do you know anything about
business. Do you know anything about that?
that? >> No.
>> No. >> So,
>> So, believe it or not, um weddings are
believe it or not, um weddings are increasing in popularity. People are
increasing in popularity. People are getting out uh getting married outside
getting out uh getting married outside more than ever. I think like 75% of
more than ever. I think like 75% of weddings are outside now, which is
weddings are outside now, which is increasing every year. Um and that
increasing every year. Um and that increases the market for these random
increases the market for these random one-off rentals, right? I read an
one-off rentals, right? I read an article on Reddit about a guy that built
article on Reddit about a guy that built a wedding arch from his garage with some
a wedding arch from his garage with some 2x4s, some lumber. I think he spent like
2x4s, some lumber. I think he spent like 200 or $300 to build it. And he rents it
200 or $300 to build it. And he rents it out to weddings for like $1,000 per
out to weddings for like $1,000 per wedding. And it's just a a piece of wood
wedding. And it's just a a piece of wood for the couples to stand under as they
for the couples to stand under as they say, "I do." Right. And so he works with
say, "I do." Right. And so he works with event organizers or wedding organizers
event organizers or wedding organizers to continually rent it to the wedding
to continually rent it to the wedding organizer.
organizer. >> Exactly. He doesn't go through the
>> Exactly. He doesn't go through the brides. He goes through the wedding
brides. He goes through the wedding planners because surface area they have
planners because surface area they have they're touching all kinds of weddings
they're touching all kinds of weddings on a regular basis. To find these
on a regular basis. To find these wedding planners, you go to the knot,
wedding planners, you go to the knot, you go to zola, wedding wire, you scrape
you go to zola, wedding wire, you scrape them and all of their phone numbers and
them and all of their phone numbers and emails and names and businesses are on
emails and names and businesses are on the website for everyone to see and you
the website for everyone to see and you just start reaching out. And one contact
just start reaching out. And one contact could be one wedding a week. So that
could be one wedding a week. So that could be started that could be in the
could be started that could be in the $500 box, right?
$500 box, right? >> You could spend $300 on supplies. You
>> You could spend $300 on supplies. You could spend $100 on scraping all the
could spend $100 on scraping all the emails quite cheaply. Um, and then you
emails quite cheaply. Um, and then you could spend $100 on gas and then or
could spend $100 on gas and then or let's say another $100 on renting a
let's say another $100 on renting a truck and trailer from Home Depot. Say
truck and trailer from Home Depot. Say you have a car. Say you don't have a
you have a car. Say you don't have a car, right? You've got $400 left over to
car, right? You've got $400 left over to go to a nice meal or to uh or for
go to a nice meal or to uh or for Facebook ads.
Facebook ads. So, photo walls are very popular.
So, photo walls are very popular. shakuerie carts where wedding uh patrons
shakuerie carts where wedding uh patrons can make their own shakuderie board. Um
can make their own shakuderie board. Um you can do like custom pizzas at
you can do like custom pizzas at weddings. You could do wedding arches.
weddings. You could do wedding arches. Um there's a lot of different
Um there's a lot of different opportunities there.
opportunities there. >> Weddings and funerals.
>> Weddings and funerals. >> Yeah, cuz everything you said there
>> Yeah, cuz everything you said there could also apply to funerals.
could also apply to funerals. >> That's true.
>> That's true. >> They don't seem to be stopping either.
>> They don't seem to be stopping either. >> Guess funerals are going to get more
>> Guess funerals are going to get more popular with the population.
popular with the population. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Continuing to increase.
>> Continuing to increase. What else? So, wedding rentals is the
What else? So, wedding rentals is the first one you do with $1,000. Anything
first one you do with $1,000. Anything else?
else? >> Yeah. Should we do a an online one?
>> Yeah. Should we do a an online one? >> Sure.
>> Sure. >> So, there's a lot of people nowadays
>> So, there's a lot of people nowadays making money with local email
making money with local email newsletters.
newsletters. >> Are you very familiar with that?
>> Are you very familiar with that? >> No.
>> No. >> So, basically what you do, we keep
>> So, basically what you do, we keep coming back to this is like a big ad for
coming back to this is like a big ad for Facebook, right? I swear it's not.
Facebook, right? I swear it's not. >> But, um, people are using local Facebook
>> But, um, people are using local Facebook ads. Um, let's say you live in Boise,
ads. Um, let's say you live in Boise, Idaho. There's 200,000 people there. You
Idaho. There's 200,000 people there. You post a Facebook ad that says, "Hey, find
post a Facebook ad that says, "Hey, find out what's happening in Boise, Idaho.
out what's happening in Boise, Idaho. One email per week in your inbox. You
One email per week in your inbox. You can acquire a subscriber for about 50
can acquire a subscriber for about 50 cents from Facebook or Instagram." Okay,
cents from Facebook or Instagram." Okay, let's call it a dollar to be to be more
let's call it a dollar to be to be more conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a
conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a dollar. If you sell ads inside that
dollar. If you sell ads inside that email newsletter, you can charge about
email newsletter, you can charge about 50 cents per month um per subscriber.
50 cents per month um per subscriber. So, if we had $1,000,
So, if we had $1,000, I would use a free trial for an email
I would use a free trial for an email newsletter software like Beehive or
newsletter software like Beehive or ConvertKit or any of those. And so, I've
ConvertKit or any of those. And so, I've already spent $0. And I would give all
already spent $0. And I would give all $1,000 to Meta. I would set a defined
$1,000 to Meta. I would set a defined radius in a local area. Preferably, it's
radius in a local area. Preferably, it's where you live, but it doesn't have to
where you live, but it doesn't have to be. It could be on the other side of the
be. It could be on the other side of the world. I've launched this. I tested this
world. I've launched this. I tested this in New Mexico, and it worked. I'd spend
in New Mexico, and it worked. I'd spend $1,000 to acquire a,000 subscribers. Um,
$1,000 to acquire a,000 subscribers. Um, and then I would start sending them
and then I would start sending them weekly newsletters. What's happening in
weekly newsletters. What's happening in Boise, Idaho? Um, discounts in Boise,
Boise, Idaho? Um, discounts in Boise, Idaho. News in Boise, Idaho. I would not
Idaho. News in Boise, Idaho. I would not use Chad GPT to write it. I would write
use Chad GPT to write it. I would write it myself in my own natural language,
it myself in my own natural language, whether I'm a good writer or not.
whether I'm a good writer or not. >> Why?
>> Why? >> Cuz it needs to feel personal. It needs
>> Cuz it needs to feel personal. It needs to feel like a local is writing it. Not
to feel like a local is writing it. Not like an author, not like Chad GBT. Um,
like an author, not like Chad GBT. Um, and then I would use those same
and then I would use those same subscribers to source sponsors.
subscribers to source sponsors. So Bob's car repair owner is potentially
So Bob's car repair owner is potentially in your list. There are 10% of all
in your list. There are 10% of all adults are business owners, right? So if
adults are business owners, right? So if I have a thousand email subscribers, 100
I have a thousand email subscribers, 100 of them are going to be business owners
of them are going to be business owners are going to be potential sponsors to my
are going to be potential sponsors to my newsletter. So after a month or so, I'm
newsletter. So after a month or so, I'm going to put send out an email that
going to put send out an email that says, "Hey, your ad here. I'd love to
says, "Hey, your ad here. I'd love to sponsor your business. It's a very
sponsor your business. It's a very relevant market. It costs $500 uh per
relevant market. It costs $500 uh per send to send your email." Um, so then if
send to send your email." Um, so then if I spend $1,000 to acquire these
I spend $1,000 to acquire these customers, I will get that money back
customers, I will get that money back within two months because I'm I'm making
within two months because I'm I'm making $500 a month. 50 cents per subscriber
$500 a month. 50 cents per subscriber from a,000 newsletter subscribers. And
from a,000 newsletter subscribers. And that can scale um as much as you want.
that can scale um as much as you want. If Boise, Idaho is only so big, you copy
If Boise, Idaho is only so big, you copy and paste the template in another city
and paste the template in another city or a bigger city. Okay, let's move up
or a bigger city. Okay, let's move up then. This
then. This This briefcase has a lot more money in
This briefcase has a lot more money in it.
it. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. $5,000. What side hustle do you start if
$5,000. What side hustle do you start if you've got $5,000?
you've got $5,000? Okay. So, if we've got a sliding scale
Okay. So, if we've got a sliding scale of active to passive income, the closer
of active to passive income, the closer you get to this to $5,000, the more
you get to this to $5,000, the more realistic the passive income becomes.
realistic the passive income becomes. Okay. So, I'm going to go closer to
Okay. So, I'm going to go closer to that. Um,
that. Um, I love RV parks.
I love RV parks. >> What's an RV park?
>> What's an RV park? >> An RV park is one of two things. It's a
>> An RV park is one of two things. It's a place for someone to live in full-time
place for someone to live in full-time for months or years at a time where they
for months or years at a time where they live in an recreational vehicle in an
live in an recreational vehicle in an RV.
RV. >> A camper van.
>> A camper van. >> A camper van. It could be a fixed income
>> A camper van. It could be a fixed income uh retired person. It could be a
uh retired person. It could be a bluecollar worker. It could be a a
bluecollar worker. It could be a a digital nomad. Right? That's kind of the
digital nomad. Right? That's kind of the three categories. Um, the other type of
three categories. Um, the other type of RV park is a a recreational, like a more
RV park is a a recreational, like a more short-term RV park that might be right
short-term RV park that might be right outside of the Grand Canyon or, you
outside of the Grand Canyon or, you know, a popular tourist destination
know, a popular tourist destination where people are staying one to four
where people are staying one to four nights at a time, right? This is a
nights at a time, right? This is a business I've been in for about 7 years
business I've been in for about 7 years now. They have very small RV parks out
now. They have very small RV parks out there that are 3 to 10 pad sites that
there that are 3 to 10 pad sites that are about 3 to 10 times more profitable
are about 3 to 10 times more profitable than buying a single family home as a
than buying a single family home as a rental. Okay. So, I genuinely I don't
rental. Okay. So, I genuinely I don't understand why people buy single family
understand why people buy single family homes because like buying a small RV
homes because like buying a small RV park costs the same but is significantly
park costs the same but is significantly more profitable and more flexible
more profitable and more flexible because you have your your risk is more
because you have your your risk is more distributed amongst five to 10 tenants
distributed amongst five to 10 tenants as opposed to one tenant that could go
as opposed to one tenant that could go bankrupt or disappear in the middle of
bankrupt or disappear in the middle of the night. So, with this $5,000,
the night. So, with this $5,000, um, I would call every small RV park in
um, I would call every small RV park in my area, preferably within a three-hour
my area, preferably within a three-hour drive. I would just find them on Google
drive. I would just find them on Google Maps. This would take a little more time
Maps. This would take a little more time because we can't allocate any of this
because we can't allocate any of this budget to the finding of the park. We've
budget to the finding of the park. We've got to do that very manually with the
got to do that very manually with the our iPhone and our internet connection.
our iPhone and our internet connection. Okay. I'm going to find, in my
Okay. I'm going to find, in my experience, for every 100 parks I find,
experience, for every 100 parks I find, about two or three of them can be a
about two or three of them can be a really good deal. Okay. So, if I get a
really good deal. Okay. So, if I get a 100 people on the phone, I I know I can
100 people on the phone, I I know I can find one good deal from that with seller
find one good deal from that with seller financing because we can't use any of
financing because we can't use any of this to buy the park either. Got a lot
this to buy the park either. Got a lot of constraints. I'm going to use uh
of constraints. I'm going to use uh let's say
let's say 2,000 of these dollars um for my due
2,000 of these dollars um for my due diligence. I've got to get inspections
diligence. I've got to get inspections on the park. I've got to get a title
on the park. I've got to get a title policy on the park to make sure it's not
policy on the park to make sure it's not a scam to make sure that the owner who
a scam to make sure that the owner who says they own it actually owns it. Um,
says they own it actually owns it. Um, and then with the remainder of the
and then with the remainder of the money, I need some operating capital. I
money, I need some operating capital. I need to be able to pay the power bill to
need to be able to pay the power bill to maybe trim some trees to get the park
maybe trim some trees to get the park looking nice on day one. And then to
looking nice on day one. And then to actually buy the park, I need to set up
actually buy the park, I need to set up creative financing with the seller. And
creative financing with the seller. And the best way you can do that is by
the best way you can do that is by building a relationship with the seller,
building a relationship with the seller, building some trust with them, um,
building some trust with them, um, showing them that you're going to take
showing them that you're going to take good care of the park. Now, the unit
good care of the park. Now, the unit economics on this, let's say you buy a
economics on this, let's say you buy a park for $200,000.
park for $200,000. In the real estate world, they're valued
In the real estate world, they're valued on a cap rate basis, which is the profit
on a cap rate basis, which is the profit of the park divided by the asking price
of the park divided by the asking price of the park. So, if I buy a park for a
of the park. So, if I buy a park for a 10% cap rate, that means it's going to
10% cap rate, that means it's going to make $20,000 a year of profit and it's
make $20,000 a year of profit and it's going to cost me $200,000. Okay? So,
going to cost me $200,000. Okay? So, that park probably has no website. It
that park probably has no website. It probably has way undermarket rents. It
probably has way undermarket rents. It probably has occupancy issues because
probably has occupancy issues because they're it has no website. They're not
they're it has no website. They're not doing anything. So, I'm going to get the
doing anything. So, I'm going to get the park to perform by literally posting ads
park to perform by literally posting ads on Facebook Marketplace, free ads,
on Facebook Marketplace, free ads, making a free website with a vibe coding
making a free website with a vibe coding app and um and increasing the occupancy.
app and um and increasing the occupancy. And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000
And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000 a year and the park is worth an 8% cap
a year and the park is worth an 8% cap rate. You bought it undervalued at 10%.
rate. You bought it undervalued at 10%. So it's now at $3, I don't know, $60,000
So it's now at $3, I don't know, $60,000 park that you paid $200,000 for. So you
park that you paid $200,000 for. So you can either sell it or you can just
can either sell it or you can just manage it um and enjoy the profits.
manage it um and enjoy the profits. >> When you said seller financing, what
>> When you said seller financing, what what does that mean?
what does that mean? >> That means the seller is holding the
>> That means the seller is holding the note. They are bearing the risk of you
note. They are bearing the risk of you buying the park, but what's in it for
buying the park, but what's in it for them is a they can get the park back if
them is a they can get the park back if you default.
you default. >> Okay. So, they're not actually giving
>> Okay. So, they're not actually giving you the park up front. They're letting
you the park up front. They're letting you have it today on the basis that
you have it today on the basis that you'll pay them in the future with
you'll pay them in the future with profits you make.
profits you make. >> Exactly. So, you're making monthly
>> Exactly. So, you're making monthly payments to them. Um because often times
payments to them. Um because often times they're going to take that money that
they're going to take that money that you give them and they're going to have
you give them and they're going to have to invest it in something else,
to invest it in something else, something they don't understand. So,
something they don't understand. So, your pitch to them is, "Hey, you know
your pitch to them is, "Hey, you know this park better than anyone, right? you
this park better than anyone, right? you know what I can do to fix it. You know
know what I can do to fix it. You know what the deficiencies are. If for some
what the deficiencies are. If for some reason I'm not who I say I am, you just
reason I'm not who I say I am, you just get it back. You take it back and you
get it back. You take it back and you where you started and you keep all the
where you started and you keep all the money that I've paid you some so far.
money that I've paid you some so far. >> How much money have you made from doing
>> How much money have you made from doing this?
this? >> I've made net profit
>> I've made net profit probably 4 to $600,000
probably 4 to $600,000 >> revenue.
>> revenue. >> I would say between 3 and 4 million a
>> I would say between 3 and 4 million a year
year >> with these RV parks
>> with these RV parks >> and mobile home parks as well. Yeah. How
>> and mobile home parks as well. Yeah. How many of them?
many of them? >> I've been involved with 35 or so over
>> I've been involved with 35 or so over the last seven years.
the last seven years. >> What a bad business.
>> What a bad business. >> No, I mean, you're capitalizing on baby
>> No, I mean, you're capitalizing on baby boomers retiring and on millennials
boomers retiring and on millennials traveling and on Yeah, it's just it's a
traveling and on Yeah, it's just it's a growing market. People are getting
growing market. People are getting outside more.
outside more. >> Yeah. What What are the macro things you
>> Yeah. What What are the macro things you you think about at the moment when
you think about at the moment when you're trying to decide on a new side
you're trying to decide on a new side hustle or a new business to start? Are
hustle or a new business to start? Are there like obvious macro things that
there like obvious macro things that happening that we should all be thinking
happening that we should all be thinking about? you just can't ignore AI. Like
about? you just can't ignore AI. Like whatever you're doing, AI has to be part
whatever you're doing, AI has to be part of it. So I like the the framework of
of it. So I like the the framework of implementing new AI tools into old
implementing new AI tools into old businesses. And I like the framework
businesses. And I like the framework that 10,000 um baby boomers are retiring
that 10,000 um baby boomers are retiring every single day and that will be the
every single day and that will be the case for the next 5 to 10 years. What's
case for the next 5 to 10 years. What's the opportunity there
the opportunity there >> to either buy the businesses or to
>> to either buy the businesses or to implement AI into the businesses? Um
implement AI into the businesses? Um those are the two biggest opportunities
those are the two biggest opportunities I see. That's true.
I see. That's true. >> Get them to give you the business. So,
>> Get them to give you the business. So, and you run it better in a more digital
and you run it better in a more digital way.
way. >> Yeah. And you pay them off for that
>> Yeah. And you pay them off for that business when you've made profit from
business when you've made profit from it. If you don't make the profit, they
it. If you don't make the profit, they get their business back.
get their business back. >> Yes. Now, I will say finding seller
>> Yes. Now, I will say finding seller financing on a business is harder than
financing on a business is harder than on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is
on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is possible.
possible. >> Of all the businesses you you've
>> Of all the businesses you you've started, which one has been most
started, which one has been most profitable?
profitable? >> And was the easiest?
>> And was the easiest? >> Oh, man. So, like what is the winner?
>> Oh, man. So, like what is the winner? >> I would say either um my RV parks
>> I would say either um my RV parks business or my my Texas snacks business,
business or my my Texas snacks business, my e-commerce business. Um and they
my e-commerce business. Um and they weren't easy because they're easy
weren't easy because they're easy businesses or industry industries.
businesses or industry industries. They're easy because I had matured
They're easy because I had matured enough to a point to find
enough to a point to find good operators to run those businesses
good operators to run those businesses where I had little to no involvement in
where I had little to no involvement in them. Does that make sense?
them. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. You found people to run them for
>> Yeah. You found people to run them for you so that as a starter they didn't die
you so that as a starter they didn't die the minute you got bored.
the minute you got bored. >> Exactly. Whereas
>> Exactly. Whereas >> they carried on growing and evolving.
>> they carried on growing and evolving. >> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard
>> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard industries. E-commerce is quite hard and
industries. E-commerce is quite hard and uh and real estate is as well. But I had
uh and real estate is as well. But I had good operators.
good operators. >> What have you learned about finding good
>> What have you learned about finding good operators?
operators? H.
H. Oh man,
Oh man, it all comes down to
it all comes down to trust. How much trust am I able to put
trust. How much trust am I able to put in them? How much trust do I have them?
in them? How much trust do I have them? I've found a um a direct correlation
I've found a um a direct correlation between people I know really well um and
between people I know really well um and people that have made really good
people that have made really good operators.
operators. >> How do you incentivize them?
>> How do you incentivize them? >> Directly from the profits of the
>> Directly from the profits of the business
business >> so that they feel more like a
>> so that they feel more like a entrepreneur. they've got more of a of a
entrepreneur. they've got more of a of a piece of the pie.
piece of the pie. >> Yeah, I made the mistake in my 20s of
>> Yeah, I made the mistake in my 20s of dangling a carrot of equity too often.
dangling a carrot of equity too often. Genuinely meaning it like but it most
Genuinely meaning it like but it most equity goes to zero period. Um I put a
equity goes to zero period. Um I put a lot more emphasis on cash flow now in my
lot more emphasis on cash flow now in my 30s than I do on equity. I think equity
30s than I do on equity. I think equity is overrated. And so nowadays, I'm less
is overrated. And so nowadays, I'm less likely to give an operating partner
likely to give an operating partner equity, not because I don't think they
equity, not because I don't think they deserve it, but because it's more likely
deserve it, but because it's more likely to go to zero, and I'm more likely to
to go to zero, and I'm more likely to cut them in on the profits so they can
cut them in on the profits so they can get paid ongoing
get paid ongoing >> on an annual basis or quarterly basis,
>> on an annual basis or quarterly basis, etc.
etc. >> Quarterly. Yeah.
>> Quarterly. Yeah. >> Interesting. H is there any side hustles
>> Interesting. H is there any side hustles that you've heard about that you wish
that you've heard about that you wish you'd started?
you'd started? >> It's funny because a lot of the ones
>> It's funny because a lot of the ones that I wish I started, I started. Like a
that I wish I started, I started. Like a lot of the 80 that I've done, I just
lot of the 80 that I've done, I just it's something that I thought about for
it's something that I thought about for 2 weeks. I can't get it out of my head.
2 weeks. I can't get it out of my head. And I just I have to get it out of my
And I just I have to get it out of my head. And so if I start something and it
head. And so if I start something and it fails,
fails, I don't really care because I don't
I don't really care because I don't invest a lot of money into it. And I
invest a lot of money into it. And I answered the question. I don't have to
answered the question. I don't have to like stay up at night wondering if that
like stay up at night wondering if that thing would have worked anymore.
thing would have worked anymore. Sometimes I'll like run these tests on
Sometimes I'll like run these tests on Facebook that show me such amazing
Facebook that show me such amazing results that just kind of unlock an
results that just kind of unlock an opportunity for me. Can I give you an
opportunity for me. Can I give you an analogy?
analogy? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Have you ever been deep sea fishing? Uh,
>> Have you ever been deep sea fishing? Uh, not deep sea fishing. No.
not deep sea fishing. No. >> Okay, so here's a real story. I was out
>> Okay, so here's a real story. I was out deep deep sea fishing and we were just
deep deep sea fishing and we were just throwing lures and we weren't getting
throwing lures and we weren't getting any any uh bites and the captain reaches
any any uh bites and the captain reaches in under the seat and he pulls out
in under the seat and he pulls out straws from McDonald's, McDonald's
straws from McDonald's, McDonald's straws specifically because they have
straws specifically because they have red and yellow stripes along the side of
red and yellow stripes along the side of them and he pulled out scissors and he
them and he pulled out scissors and he started cutting them into fourths. And
started cutting them into fourths. And then he he took the hook off the line
then he he took the hook off the line and he he put the string through the
and he he put the string through the straw and then he tied the hook back on.
straw and then he tied the hook back on. He's like, "I know, seems crazy. Just
He's like, "I know, seems crazy. Just stick with me." And we casted it out and
stick with me." And we casted it out and we started getting bites. And I'm like,
we started getting bites. And I'm like, "What is it was the same place with the
"What is it was the same place with the same lure, same hook with just a straw."
same lure, same hook with just a straw." And I'm like, "What? Why does this
And I'm like, "What? Why does this work?" And he's like, "It's the colors.
work?" And he's like, "It's the colors. It's like the white and the red and and
It's like the white and the red and and it just spins as you reel it in and it
it just spins as you reel it in and it it mimics a fish." And I was like, "How
it mimics a fish." And I was like, "How did you learn this? Like what made you
did you learn this? Like what made you think to try this?" He's like, "I don't
think to try this?" He's like, "I don't know. Uh maybe alcohol was involved. I
know. Uh maybe alcohol was involved. I don't know." But like that worked and we
don't know." But like that worked and we started catching fish the rest of the
started catching fish the rest of the day. So it just got me thinking like
day. So it just got me thinking like entrepreneurship is this massive ocean
entrepreneurship is this massive ocean with millions of varieties of fish,
with millions of varieties of fish, billions of fish, some sharks, some
billions of fish, some sharks, some minnows. And so many of us go out there
minnows. And so many of us go out there and we cast a few times and we just go
and we cast a few times and we just go back home. We're like, "Entreneurship
back home. We're like, "Entreneurship doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to
doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to the 9 to5." But we're not testing enough
the 9 to5." But we're not testing enough stuff. There's different depths. There's
stuff. There's different depths. There's different baits. We could spray
different baits. We could spray something on it to make it smell
something on it to make it smell different. We could put a McDonald's
different. We could put a McDonald's straw on it. And occasionally we'll find
straw on it. And occasionally we'll find something. We'll get a bite. And maybe
something. We'll get a bite. And maybe we won't get another bite for another
we won't get another bite for another hour, but the bite is a signal. And it's
hour, but the bite is a signal. And it's like, oh, there's something there. Okay,
like, oh, there's something there. Okay, let's try that again, but try this. Or
let's try that again, but try this. Or maybe let's just cast a 100 more times.
maybe let's just cast a 100 more times. And then you get a fish. And then you
And then you get a fish. And then you get a bigger fish. And like the more
get a bigger fish. And like the more you're out there, not just focusing on
you're out there, not just focusing on one type of fishing, but increasing your
one type of fishing, but increasing your surface area and trying all kinds of
surface area and trying all kinds of different things, the more you learn.
different things, the more you learn. Like the more you you test and like now
Like the more you you test and like now you have a bunch of sharks in the boat
you have a bunch of sharks in the boat and you have this and you have this and
and you have this and you have this and you have all these options at your
you have all these options at your disposal. We're eating shark tonight.
We're eating grouper. We're eating snapper. You have this amazing life
snapper. You have this amazing life that's dynamic and full of color and all
that's dynamic and full of color and all these other awesome things are coming
these other awesome things are coming into play because you stayed out there
into play because you stayed out there and you didn't just do one thing, you
and you didn't just do one thing, you tried all these other things. So that's
tried all these other things. So that's how I look at business. Like I'm out
how I look at business. Like I'm out there on the ocean testing other things
there on the ocean testing other things and even if I don't catch anything, it's
and even if I don't catch anything, it's fun. And uh I think other people should
fun. And uh I think other people should try that too.
try that too. A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't
A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't they? They want to build the next
they? They want to build the next Facebook or they want to do the a chat
Facebook or they want to do the a chat GPT or the AI app that does this, that,
GPT or the AI app that does this, that, and the other. Do you think that's in
and the other. Do you think that's in part a trap for for the average person
part a trap for for the average person to be aiming at sexy? Yeah. Because the
to be aiming at sexy? Yeah. Because the fact that everyone wants sexy means the
fact that everyone wants sexy means the fact that the sexy things are the most
fact that the sexy things are the most competitive. It's the exact reason why
competitive. It's the exact reason why we should go as unsexy as possible
we should go as unsexy as possible because no one's looking at it.
And looking forward, Chris, what is um is there anything that you're mulling
is there anything that you're mulling over now in terms of new business ideas
over now in terms of new business ideas that you could give me?
that you could give me? >> Man, I lately it's been about like stuff
>> Man, I lately it's been about like stuff I can launch with my content. Um I like
I can launch with my content. Um I like I love the phrase unfair advantage,
I love the phrase unfair advantage, right? I will only start businesses
right? I will only start businesses today where I have an unfair advantage.
today where I have an unfair advantage. Everyone has an unfair advantage in
Everyone has an unfair advantage in something, right? Even a a 13-year-old
something, right? Even a a 13-year-old has an unfair advantage. they might know
has an unfair advantage. they might know roadblocks better than anyone, right? So
roadblocks better than anyone, right? So unfair advantage is not, you know, only
unfair advantage is not, you know, only for the rich or the wealthy or the elite
for the rich or the wealthy or the elite or the most experienced or the PhDs,
or the most experienced or the PhDs, right? So I try to start businesses
right? So I try to start businesses where I have an unfair advantage and
where I have an unfair advantage and that might be because I can grow it with
that might be because I can grow it with my content. It might be because I have a
my content. It might be because I have a bunch of friends in that space or I have
bunch of friends in that space or I have a unique knowledge or insight into that
a unique knowledge or insight into that space. So if I have a zillion ideas and
space. So if I have a zillion ideas and a spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch
a spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch of business ideas, the ones I'm most
of business ideas, the ones I'm most likely to start are the ones where I
likely to start are the ones where I have an unfair advantage. a right to
have an unfair advantage. a right to win.
win. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I have this phrase called mirage
>> I have this phrase called mirage opportunity
opportunity >> which um which I use when I look at an
>> which um which I use when I look at an industry that never seems to work for
industry that never seems to work for anybody but seems so obvious.
anybody but seems so obvious. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> Do you know what I'm saying?
>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something.
>> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something. Yeah. And I this has been a bit of a a
Yeah. And I this has been a bit of a a way for me to know what not to work on
way for me to know what not to work on is if I see everybody trying to solve
is if I see everybody trying to solve this particular problem and nobody's
this particular problem and nobody's been successful yet more and more people
been successful yet more and more people are plowing in and yet it seems obvious
are plowing in and yet it seems obvious to me I just stay away from it
to me I just stay away from it >> because there's something in my
>> because there's something in my understanding of consumer behavior or
understanding of consumer behavior or current alternatives that I'm like
current alternatives that I'm like misunderstanding.
misunderstanding. >> Mhm. An example I'll give you.
>> Mhm. An example I'll give you. Everyone at the moment is trying to
Everyone at the moment is trying to start a So this is the first the sort of
start a So this is the first the sort of first principles they're reasoning up
first principles they're reasoning up from. They're saying people are more
from. They're saying people are more lonely than ever before. They're saying
lonely than ever before. They're saying there's no clear place to organize a
there's no clear place to organize a group of people. WhatsApp has its um has
group of people. WhatsApp has its um has its limitations, its restrictions,
its limitations, its restrictions, doesn't have the feature set one would
doesn't have the feature set one would like. Facebook groups aren't working for
like. Facebook groups aren't working for a certain generation of people anymore
a certain generation of people anymore for for sort of Gen Z's and younger
for for sort of Gen Z's and younger generations, millennials. So, what I'm
generations, millennials. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make an app
going to do is I'm going to make an app for groups. Mhm. Your run club, your
for groups. Mhm. Your run club, your friends, your piano recital group, your
friends, your piano recital group, your your entrepreneurs. We're going to build
your entrepreneurs. We're going to build all the group features into this app and
all the group features into this app and it's going to be dedicated to that. I've
it's going to be dedicated to that. I've heard this pitch over and over again.
heard this pitch over and over again. I've seen all of them. None of them seem
I've seen all of them. None of them seem to have any traction or work.
to have any traction or work. >> It's a mirage. Something fundamental
>> It's a mirage. Something fundamental about your assumptions is off.
about your assumptions is off. >> Yeah. When I said mirage opportunities,
>> Yeah. When I said mirage opportunities, did you think of anything in particular?
did you think of anything in particular? >> I stay away Yeah. Just I stay away from
>> I stay away Yeah. Just I stay away from businesses where where I I don't know
businesses where where I I don't know why it's not working, but clearly it's
why it's not working, but clearly it's not working.
not working. >> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare,
>> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare, right? Like banking is terrible. Like
right? Like banking is terrible. Like look at the UI at Bank of America. It's
look at the UI at Bank of America. It's why is it it's like h it's probably like
why is it it's like h it's probably like that for a reason, right? Or like
that for a reason, right? Or like Amazon's UI is terrible. It's like what
Amazon's UI is terrible. It's like what is it? It's like they probably know why
is it? It's like they probably know why it looks like that, right? I assume
it looks like that, right? I assume they're smarter than I am. One idea that
they're smarter than I am. One idea that I thought of is like everyone hates
I thought of is like everyone hates typing in their password a zillion times
typing in their password a zillion times a day. So you have like these password
a day. So you have like these password managers, but I've seen a dozen
managers, but I've seen a dozen companies that are like going to fix the
companies that are like going to fix the password, right? Some like replacement
password, right? Some like replacement to a password and they've all failed and
to a password and they've all failed and it's probably because it's it's a really
it's probably because it's it's a really hard problem to solve and I don't want
hard problem to solve and I don't want to try to invest in a person that's
to try to invest in a person that's trying to solve it cuz statistics are
trying to solve it cuz statistics are not on their side. Another one that
not on their side. Another one that comes to mind for me is at university
comes to mind for me is at university every entrepreneurial college kid
every entrepreneurial college kid decides that they're going to build a
decides that they're going to build a onampus what's going on app to let
onampus what's going on app to let everybody know what's going on on
everybody know what's going on on campus.
campus. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And they never seem to work.
>> And they never seem to work. >> Yeah. And I think the reason why they
>> Yeah. And I think the reason why they don't work is because both you're losing
don't work is because both you're losing 33% of your potential customers every
33% of your potential customers every year and gaining 33% new customers every
year and gaining 33% new customers every year. So you have a bit of an
year. So you have a bit of an acquisition problem, but then also
acquisition problem, but then also people don't decide what they're going
people don't decide what they're going to do based on some notice board. They
to do based on some notice board. They decide based on their dorm room friends
decide based on their dorm room friends and where they're going and where the
and where they're going and where the girl they like is going.
girl they like is going. >> And you and so it's not really about
>> And you and so it's not really about what's going on. It's like what does my
what's going on. It's like what does my group of people want to do. I think
group of people want to do. I think that's I think that's the mirage in
that's I think that's the mirage in that. Well, I thought of another example
that. Well, I thought of another example that's like building apps around
that's like building apps around podcasting.
podcasting. >> Oh my god. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh my god. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. >> I have a friend that he had a podcast.
>> I have a friend that he had a podcast. >> It's a great one.
>> It's a great one. >> That helped podcasters, right? And it
>> That helped podcasters, right? And it was great. Like really I listen to it
was great. Like really I listen to it and he he realized over time like I'm
and he he realized over time like I'm selling to a market that quits, right?
selling to a market that quits, right? I'm asking for customers to pay for my
I'm asking for customers to pay for my thing that are statistically like 95% of
thing that are statistically like 95% of them are going to quit within 6 months.
them are going to quit within 6 months. So it's just a broken market to sell to.
So it's just a broken market to sell to. And then the 5% that are successful,
And then the 5% that are successful, what percentage of them are actually
what percentage of them are actually profitable? What percentage of them can
profitable? What percentage of them can afford to pay for an expensive agency or
afford to pay for an expensive agency or software? Very few
mirage opportunities. I like that. I I would Yeah, it's a it's been a really
would Yeah, it's a it's been a really useful framework because it's the
useful framework because it's the obvious ones that no one's doing, but
obvious ones that no one's doing, but there's clearly a huge opportunity that
there's clearly a huge opportunity that I think pulls people in the most. But
I think pulls people in the most. But for me now with the with the amount of
for me now with the with the amount of time I've spent starting businesses,
time I've spent starting businesses, those are the ones that push me away the
those are the ones that push me away the most.
most. >> Yeah. Well, it all comes back to the
>> Yeah. Well, it all comes back to the value of just copying what's already
value of just copying what's already working.
working. >> Amen. Is there anything we haven't
>> Amen. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have talked
talked about that we should have talked about, Chris? For young and old people
about, Chris? For young and old people that are considering starting their own
that are considering starting their own business, their own side hustle,
business, their own side hustle, building passive income.
building passive income. Many of the people that think they want
Many of the people that think they want to be an entrepreneur, they just like
to be an entrepreneur, they just like the idea of it and they think there's
the idea of it and they think there's freedom in entrepreneurship when
freedom in entrepreneurship when oftentimes it's even more of a prison
oftentimes it's even more of a prison than their 9 to5.
than their 9 to5. >> It can be at least in the first years,
>> It can be at least in the first years, not months, not years, sometimes
not months, not years, sometimes decades, right? And so I want people to
decades, right? And so I want people to answer the question for themselves. Is
answer the question for themselves. Is this for me? So they don't regret.
this for me? So they don't regret. They need to find out if they love the
They need to find out if they love the idea of it or they like the actual
idea of it or they like the actual day-to-day grind of it. um because they
day-to-day grind of it. um because they they probably won't, but I want them to
they probably won't, but I want them to find out.
find out. >> Such an important point because the
>> Such an important point because the narrative online at the moment is, you
narrative online at the moment is, you know, be your own boss, etc., etc. And I
know, be your own boss, etc., etc. And I I just I don't think people I'm speaking
I just I don't think people I'm speaking for myself here. I don't want to speak
for myself here. I don't want to speak for you, but I don't think people
for you, but I don't think people realize how many people I have to answer
realize how many people I have to answer to.
to. >> Oh, yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. >> I have all of my team members, which is
>> I have all of my team members, which is hundreds of people. Then I have my
hundreds of people. Then I have my investors. I have my suppliers, my
investors. I have my suppliers, my clients. So, it's not like I'm living as
clients. So, it's not like I'm living as a free man.
a free man. >> Yeah. I'm less free now than I was
>> Yeah. I'm less free now than I was before.
before. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> When I started all this stuff,
>> When I started all this stuff, >> isn't it nice when someone just also
>> isn't it nice when someone just also just tells you what to do and exactly
just tells you what to do and exactly what path to take?
what path to take? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Like my wife does that. She's like,
>> Like my wife does that. She's like, "Hey, I need you to do this." It's like,
"Hey, I need you to do this." It's like, "Oh, it's so nice. I don't have to like
"Oh, it's so nice. I don't have to like think like thank you." You know, so I
think like thank you." You know, so I have bosses in other areas of my life
have bosses in other areas of my life and it's really nice. Like there's
and it's really nice. Like there's something to be said for a 9 to5. And
something to be said for a 9 to5. And some people have no desire to even test
some people have no desire to even test an entrepreneurship. Great. All power to
an entrepreneurship. Great. All power to you, but I want people to test it. And I
you, but I want people to test it. And I think, you know, people would look at
think, you know, people would look at someone like me or you and think, oh,
someone like me or you and think, oh, you know, they've got total freedom. But
you know, they've got total freedom. But this is just not the case. Even for me
this is just not the case. Even for me as a podcaster, you know, I'm now kind
as a podcaster, you know, I'm now kind of somewhat
of somewhat constrained by the fact that I need to
constrained by the fact that I need to publish on a Monday and I need to
publish on a Monday and I need to publish on a Thursday and that means
publish on a Thursday and that means lots of other work takes place
lots of other work takes place throughout the week and
throughout the week and >> um I can't just go to Hawaii and chill
>> um I can't just go to Hawaii and chill out and spend a month off and then I've
out and spend a month off and then I've got all my clients now and the team
got all my clients now and the team members, etc. So, I'm I'm I think I'm
members, etc. So, I'm I'm I think I'm starting a bit of a war against this
starting a bit of a war against this idea that
idea that >> independence and total freedom.
>> independence and total freedom. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Is both something to aim for but also
>> Is both something to aim for but also like realistic
like realistic >> when you're pursuing something you love.
>> when you're pursuing something you love. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I think a generation have been sold this
>> I think a generation have been sold this idea of independence. And I don't think
idea of independence. And I don't think it's gotten us anywhere. Yeah.
it's gotten us anywhere. Yeah. >> Like that. That's the goal. Freedom,
>> Like that. That's the goal. Freedom, independence. Don't depend on anybody.
independence. Don't depend on anybody. >> Right. But when I look on your your
>> Right. But when I look on your your life, you've got four kids, you've got
life, you've got four kids, you've got lots of responsibility, you've got
lots of responsibility, you've got employees, you've got businesses, you've
employees, you've got businesses, you've got so much dependency
got so much dependency and that's probably the source of much
and that's probably the source of much of your happiness.
of your happiness. >> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is
>> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is there are no solutions, only trade-offs.
there are no solutions, only trade-offs. >> Entrepreneurship is not a solution.
>> Entrepreneurship is not a solution. You're trading something for it. The
You're trading something for it. The question is, is that trade-off worth it
question is, is that trade-off worth it or not? And we won't know until we try
or not? And we won't know until we try it.
it. >> And what's the trade-off you're making?
>> And what's the trade-off you're making? stability, um, lack of volatility. Um,
stability, um, lack of volatility. Um, yeah, predictability. My life has been
yeah, predictability. My life has been volatile and unpredictable. Um, but the
volatile and unpredictable. Um, but the more I do it, the more predictable it
more I do it, the more predictable it becomes in a good way. Uh, but that's
becomes in a good way. Uh, but that's been the trade-off is the mental load of
been the trade-off is the mental load of not knowing where my paycheck's coming
not knowing where my paycheck's coming from or if it's coming at all.
from or if it's coming at all. >> It's not for the faint-hearted.
>> It's not for the faint-hearted. >> No.
>> No. Chris, we have a closing tradition where
Chris, we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the
the last guest leaves a question for the next not knowing who they're leaving it
next not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you, I
for. And the question left for you, I love this question for obvious reasons,
love this question for obvious reasons, is during your interview with Steven
is during your interview with Steven today, what is one thing he did that you
today, what is one thing he did that you genuinely appreciated.
I appreciate that the questions you asked me got me to look at the things
asked me got me to look at the things I've been looking at in one way
I've been looking at in one way completely differently. I came into this
completely differently. I came into this conversation,
conversation, you know, looking at things in a
you know, looking at things in a specific way in in ways that I always
specific way in in ways that I always have, but your questions got me to
have, but your questions got me to approach it from a different angle. um
approach it from a different angle. um that made me learn something more about
that made me learn something more about my own story, if you will.
my own story, if you will. >> And what was that in particular? Was
>> And what was that in particular? Was there a specific thing you're you're
there a specific thing you're you're thinking about?
thinking about? >> Maybe just the overall framework that
just that it's it's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. Um, and that we
It's not for everyone. Um, and that we just need to learn if the trade-offs are
just need to learn if the trade-offs are worth it.
worth it. >> There's an element of your personal
>> There's an element of your personal trauma, experiences, upbringing,
trauma, experiences, upbringing, insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the
insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the trade-offs worth it makes you in some
trade-offs worth it makes you in some respect unreasonable,
respect unreasonable, >> unrealistic, willing to take the risk.
>> unrealistic, willing to take the risk. And we don't talk about that enough
And we don't talk about that enough because we're not able to go into
because we're not able to go into people's trauma and the nuance of their
people's trauma and the nuance of their life and childhood and what their dad
life and childhood and what their dad said to them and what the how they were
said to them and what the how they were bullied
bullied >> to be able to like
>> to be able to like trans transmit into their mind to make
trans transmit into their mind to make that to figure that out for themselves.
that to figure that out for themselves. But I think probably is in both your
But I think probably is in both your life and my life. I mean you we both I
life and my life. I mean you we both I think have ADHD to some degree and we
think have ADHD to some degree and we have a brainwire in a certain way. So
have a brainwire in a certain way. So it's not it can seem like we're making a
it's not it can seem like we're making a choice but I it often doesn't feel like
choice but I it often doesn't feel like that for me.
that for me. >> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice.
>> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice. It feels like there is no other choice.
It feels like there is no other choice. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> In the same way that one might make a
>> In the same way that one might make a choice to get a 9 toive job.
choice to get a 9 toive job. >> I have I I I think for me that would be
>> I have I I I think for me that would be a terrible thing.
a terrible thing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And vice versa probably.
>> And vice versa probably. >> Yeah. Well, what you just said just
>> Yeah. Well, what you just said just brought up a memory. I don't know if
brought up a memory. I don't know if it's relevant to this or not, but you
it's relevant to this or not, but you said ADHD. When I was in undergrad, I
said ADHD. When I was in undergrad, I got tested for ADHD. And the
got tested for ADHD. And the psychiatrist said, um, it was a big
psychiatrist said, um, it was a big report. I'm summarizing it to the only
report. I'm summarizing it to the only sentence that I remember, but she said
sentence that I remember, but she said that I just had delusions of grandeur,
that I just had delusions of grandeur, right? Uh, it wasn't like an official
right? Uh, it wasn't like an official diagnosis. It was one line in like an
diagnosis. It was one line in like an eight-page document, but I saw that just
eight-page document, but I saw that just like bounce off the page and I was like,
like bounce off the page and I was like, how do you know that's a delusion?
how do you know that's a delusion? Right? Like it's only a delusion if
Right? Like it's only a delusion if enough time has passed so we could look
enough time has passed so we could look back and say, "Yeah, he was wrong. He
back and say, "Yeah, he was wrong. He was way off base."
was way off base." >> By delusions of grandeur, what does she
>> By delusions of grandeur, what does she mean?
mean? >> She means like I had unrealist
>> She means like I had unrealist unrealistic expectations about how my
unrealistic expectations about how my life would turn out. Um, and that that
life would turn out. Um, and that that was causing strife in my personal
was causing strife in my personal relationships.
relationships. And I thought it was wrong. I still
And I thought it was wrong. I still think it was wrong. But it it put a chip
think it was wrong. But it it put a chip on my shoulder. It planted a seed that I
on my shoulder. It planted a seed that I never forgot. I have that printed. It's
never forgot. I have that printed. It's in my my drawer at work. Um,
in my my drawer at work. Um, >> what does he say?
>> what does he say? >> Just I just have like literally the
>> Just I just have like literally the report that she gave me back in 2009.
report that she gave me back in 2009. Uh, it's like highlighted and drawn up
Uh, it's like highlighted and drawn up in in my in my drawer at work and I just
in in my in my drawer at work and I just look at it sometimes for motivation
look at it sometimes for motivation because what what is a delusion of
because what what is a delusion of grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur.
grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur. This is a plan. Um, and so I think about
This is a plan. Um, and so I think about her sometimes. She probably has no idea
her sometimes. She probably has no idea who I am. She probably forgot all about
who I am. She probably forgot all about me. Uh
me. Uh >> if people want to learn more, where's
>> if people want to learn more, where's the best place they should go to to
the best place they should go to to check your work out? You've got your
check your work out? You've got your podcast on YouTube.
podcast on YouTube. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the
>> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the same way that this is a podcast. It's
same way that this is a podcast. It's much more sort of practical and specific
much more sort of practical and specific around specific subject matter. So I
around specific subject matter. So I highly recommend people go check that
highly recommend people go check that out. I'm going to link it below and put
out. I'm going to link it below and put it on the screen. But where else?
it on the screen. But where else? Where's a good place to get in touch
Where's a good place to get in touch with you or to consume your work?
with you or to consume your work? >> Probably tkopod.com
>> Probably tkopod.com as in
as in >> tkopod.com. The kerner office. It's just
>> tkopod.com. The kerner office. It's just like my main website.
like my main website. >> And people can sign up here for your
>> And people can sign up here for your newsletter.
newsletter. >> A newsletter. Yep.
>> A newsletter. Yep. >> One email per week.
>> One email per week. >> What do you send out?
>> What do you send out? >> Like a very tactical guide on how to
>> Like a very tactical guide on how to start X, Y, or Z business. And I ask my
start X, Y, or Z business. And I ask my audience like what they want to learn
audience like what they want to learn about. So they tell me and then I dive
about. So they tell me and then I dive deep and then break it all down for
deep and then break it all down for them. I'll link that as well below for
them. I'll link that as well below for anyone that's interested. What is the
anyone that's interested. What is the most popular, most frequent request you
most popular, most frequent request you get through that website
get through that website >> on business ideas to talk about? Yeah,
>> on business ideas to talk about? Yeah, >> probably the AI agency, the AI
>> probably the AI agency, the AI implementation agency idea that I talked
implementation agency idea that I talked about.
about. >> And what is the most viral video you've
>> And what is the most viral video you've ever made?
ever made? >> Oh man, that was about a um just this
>> Oh man, that was about a um just this Chinese street vendor that sold ice
Chinese street vendor that sold ice cream. She had this little uh
cream. She had this little uh contraption. It was like a frozen
contraption. It was like a frozen cylinder that she poured cream over and
cylinder that she poured cream over and it would scrape off ice cream in this
it would scrape off ice cream in this really visually appealing way. And so I
really visually appealing way. And so I I basically broke down in 30 seconds
I basically broke down in 30 seconds like you could pay $200 for this, you
like you could pay $200 for this, you could post it at any given street corner
could post it at any given street corner and you could make $1,000 by the end of
and you could make $1,000 by the end of the day. So it's like A B C here's how
the day. So it's like A B C here's how to get to this revenue. Um and like 30
to get to this revenue. Um and like 30 or 40 million people saw it.
or 40 million people saw it. >> I'll put the uh the video on the screen
>> I'll put the uh the video on the screen for anyone that's interested in that as
for anyone that's interested in that as well, just so you know what this ice
well, just so you know what this ice cream contraption is.
cream contraption is. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Chris, thank you so much.
>> Chris, thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for for being yourself
>> Thank you so much for for being yourself in every respect. You teach me that
in every respect. You teach me that there's many ways to skin a cat. As the
there's many ways to skin a cat. As the saying goes, there's many ways to become
saying goes, there's many ways to become successful, to be happy, to be motivated
successful, to be happy, to be motivated in your life. There's many ways to
in your life. There's many ways to become a millionaire. Some of it bucks
become a millionaire. Some of it bucks sort of conventional wisdom of how to
sort of conventional wisdom of how to grow a business. I think that is
grow a business. I think that is actually liberating to know that your
actually liberating to know that your own unique wiring and your own unique
own unique wiring and your own unique perspective and a guy can drive you to
perspective and a guy can drive you to the same outcome of financial freedom if
the same outcome of financial freedom if you do have the self-awareness, if
you do have the self-awareness, if you're willing to work hard and if you
you're willing to work hard and if you can cope with the opinions of others.
can cope with the opinions of others. Um, and also if you're willing to
Um, and also if you're willing to sacrifice tremendously, because you have
sacrifice tremendously, because you have sacrificed tremendously, and especially
sacrificed tremendously, and especially as someone as a man that has a young man
as someone as a man that has a young man that has four kids, you've taken on your
that has four kids, you've taken on your shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I
shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I applaud you for both simplifying and
applaud you for both simplifying and demystifying the pursuit of side hustles
demystifying the pursuit of side hustles and business and entrepreneurship for so
and business and entrepreneurship for so many people because I think um, in the
many people because I think um, in the world we live in, it's probably going to
world we live in, it's probably going to become more and more important that
become more and more important that people have more options. Agreed. um in
people have more options. Agreed. um in a world of AI and if Elon Musk is to be
a world of AI and if Elon Musk is to be successful in creating the age of
successful in creating the age of abundance that he's describing, then uh
abundance that he's describing, then uh maybe we're all going to end up as
maybe we're all going to end up as entrepreneurs. Who knows? Who knows?
entrepreneurs. Who knows? Who knows? Thanks. Thank you. Thank you as well.
>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you
to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the D of a CEO.
to come even deeper into the D of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a
Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm
brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many
launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you
incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that
are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the
are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never
conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes
released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guest and also
conversations with the guest and also the episodes that we've never ever
the episodes that we've never ever released. And so much more. In the
released. And so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me.
circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show
You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and
to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would
the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now,
love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000
we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So,
people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed
if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the
community, head to the link in the description below or go to
description below or go to daccircle.com.
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