your heart walking outside of your body. >> Amazing.
>> Amazing.
>> So you know, okay. Okay. There is a such
thing as fear. The key is that we don't
succumb to it. This is the problem when
you allow uh when men allow ourselves to
be defined by one adjective, masculinity
or masculine. Because it's just a set of
attributes traditionally ascribed to
men, strength, boldness, and aggression.
So if that is our identity, that becomes
our worth and then our value becomes in
our work, what we do. Then you wonder
why so many men, especially athletes,
when they retire, they have no purpose.
They feel like they're worth nothing. Uh
men who are in their late 60s that I've
talked to, I can't provide. I can hardly
walk because your worth has been in what
you do. U I I walk around, I take
pictures whenever I see an elderly
couple out. The wife is peppy. She's
moving around. But the husband is on a
cane or a walker. Barely can move
because his entire life he worked
himself. He had to prove himself. And so
many men can't even take naps. Male when
their wives are at home. I used to jump
up from the nap when Nicole would come
through the door.
>> Well, because you're going to get in
trouble if you're sleeping. Same way
with Chris. But that's a problem because
as a hardworking man,
>> naps, well, you know this, naps are essential.
essential.
>> We're starting to see how it affects our
mental health.
>> Yes, Jason, there is so much I want to
unpack with you about everything that
you just shared. Mhm.
>> And as you keep coming back to some of
these statements, freedom to feel,
>> and there is something so much deeper
going on that is causing men to feel
that their worth is defined by their
work. Mhm.
>> And this inability to both feel what
they need to feel deep down, not the
anger on the surface that we all see and
the frustration, but what's underneath
all of that and the ability to rest. And
you know, it reminds me of this point.
If you turn to page four in your
incredible book, you write about this.
There's a passage that you have in here
that I actually triple underlined and I
was I'm wondering if you could read the
part where you talk about rest.
>> Absolutely. Um when men say we're tired,
it typically doesn't mean we need sleep.
It means we want rest. There's a major
difference between the two. Sleep is an
unconscious state that provides physical
and mental relaxation.
Rest, however, is a conscious state of
freedom from anything that wearies the soul.
soul.
>> What is it
that is
making men and boys souls so weary?
>> We're living performance-based lives
lives
from everything we do, how we look, how
much money we make, uh how successful
you are. Even the misleading mantras for
instance you know no pain no gain that's
not a universal principle meaning it
can't be applied to everything in life.
So as a sports analogy if we had uh you
and I owned a football team and our top
quarterback was injured towards Achilles
we wouldn't send them right back in the
game and say hey no pain no gain. Men
live their lives off of that misleading
mantra. Then you wonder why truthfully
the more pain we're feeling there is no
gain. We're really living lives that are
detrimental not only to us but to our
families. We're so geared on being so
strong all the time that we don't even
go see the doctor.
>> Oh my god, that's so true. I was just on
Chris's case, you know, because he's
like not able to sleep and he's But this
is he never goes to the doctor. He won't
allow himself to get sick.
>> Why go? You're only value for what you do.
do.
I'm not loved. I'm only loved for what I
can provide. Why do you think most men,
you ask them, "What do you want for
Father's Day or your birthday?" They
say, "I'm good. Nothing." Because it's
they're receiving something for just being.
being.
And that's the biggest plight I see with
so many men and it it gets me emotional
because they wear the facade like
everything's good. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They uh a lot of times families miss the
uh forest for the trees. They miss the
struggle because of the smile. Uh when a
man always says, "I'm good. Uh nothing's
wrong." That's a warning. Uh as men,
we're if someone dies, we hug each other
and say, "Stay strong."
So subconsciously, we're programming
each other that when we feel weak, we're
not men. And say that weakness, that
time is meant for us to rest and
recover. Rest is not uh weakness or
something that makes you milk sop as a
man. It's a restoration of strength.
>> But if we don't feel loved, only
appreciated for what we do. And then
what's even deeper if we don't love
ourselves, to many of us, we feel that
we're only going to find rest when we're
resting in peace.
>> You mean like when you're dead?
>> Yes. So why go to the doctor? All I do
is work. Why would I want to prolong my
life here?
A workhorse. I don't want to be a
workhorse. I want to be a racehorse that
can finish this journey. And along that
journey, I'm taking care of myself. But
most men are just workh horses. And when
it's time for them to be done, they're
off in the pasture alone, suffering in
their silence, not feeling valuable
because their whole time existing they
were doing. You know, Jason, for
somebody that's listening, they're like,
you know, I think that that is true
about a lot of men, but not my son, not
the guy I'm married to.
>> He seems fine.
He's okay. You know, he's watching the
ball game on the weekend. He's golfing.
He hasn't lost his job. We're good.
>> What do you want
the person listening to know,
particularly women, about the truth?
>> Ask them, "How are you really doing?"
intently look into his eyes and hold his
hands. How can I support you? Um, I
received a call from a close friend just
two days ago and it still affects me uh
right now. He had told me for the first
time in his life he looked at his gun
and considered taking his life. And I
said, "Why hadn't you called me?" He
says, "Man, I know you got a lot going
on as well." And so, as men, we're so
used to wearing the facade. When you see
him, he's the most joyous man you'll
ever meet. You would never think
anything is wrong, but inside there's so
much trauma. And because we're taught
that don't cry, stay strong, your family
needs you. We're like, well, I need
somebody. And then we believe that we're
alone. That's the biggest lie we could
ever believe. Because when you get men
together, and your husband Chris knows
this very well. You put men in a room
alone, they open up and start sharing
the heaviness that they've been
carrying. Um, for instance, it doesn't
have to even be trauma, but what about
the father who has children who are
autistic or have disabilities and he
goes to work crying every day and no one
knows the heaviness in his heart. A
friend of mine was telling me his son
was just trying to brush his teeth and
the struggle of him just trying to do
something that's so normal for many of
us broke him down.
>> And then you feel like a burden if you
share it with somebody.
>> But that's
>> and then you got to hold it together
because you can't be
>> cuz people don't how you when you say
how you how you're doing. It's not like
you're really intentional. That's it
becomes a just hey hi. No. When I ask
you how you're doing, I'm here for you.
I've had people at restaurants I say,
"How are you doing?" "Oh, you wouldn't
want to know." "Oh, yes, I do. Tell me."
And I give them the space.
>> You know,
>> you know, one of the takeaways that I
have from listening to you
so far is a very meaningful change that
I could make is whether I'm talking to
my son Oakley on the phone, right, who's
off at college, or I'm talking to Chris
at the end of the day. Instead of being
like, "How was your day?"
>> Really intentionally
recognizing that's a moment to create
space to say, "How are you?" No, really.
>> Absolutely. Um, holding like Nicole and
I exercise, our therapist taught us is
just to sit in front of each other,
knees touching, holding each other's
hand, and staring into our eyes. No
communication. I actually do that
exercise with fathers and sons when
they're going through I guess having
some conflict.
The father always is the first to start
crying because words really don't
express what we're feeling. The eyes
when you're looking into each other's
eyes, you look into your son's eyes and
you know as a father where you've made
mistakes and you know really his
behavior is tied to a lot that we're
doing. to give the father the
opportunity to show his love in a way
without saying it. And the son sees
like, whoa, my dad is like super tough,
but he must really love me. I must be
really special for him to cry right now.
And that's all we want. Our children
just want to know that they're the apple
of our eye and not the worm in the
fruit. It seems, at least I'll speak on
my behalf, that the men in my life are
either angry in the way they express
their emotion or they're silent. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Is that pretty typical?
>> Those are safe. You can't be weak. You
can't be soft. You can't be as simp as
they say. If you're just angry, if
you're silent, you look stoic now. Oh,
he must be strong cuz nothing ever
phases him. And so men, anger is a very
safe emotion to express. When our
feelings are hurt, we're angry. When
we're sad, we're angry. When we lose,
we're angry. When our wives express that
they want to spend more time with us cuz
they miss us, we're angry. It's a
surface emotion. That's why I tell men
to dig deep. What What are you really
feeling? And I compare it to masculinity
to uh the crayon analogy in this book.
As men, we stay within the eight box of
crayons. Okay? And we may pull out four.
>> Women have 64.
>> That's why we confuse you so much.
>> But this but this is this is
interesting. We were created for all of
those emotions. They're not exclusive to you.
you.
>> That's true.
>> It's there, but we've been hoodwinkedked
by allowing society to define what a man
is. And so when women are communicating
with us, they may pull out, I use
analogy of the color violet and all we
have is purple. We can't meet the
moment. Or even more complex issues,
they ask for lime and we're trying to
put green and yellow together.
>> And because men, we're not used to
expressing the gamut of emotions that we
have as human beings,
we can't meet the moment. And so I need
to learn how to express more than my
anger. If you don't trust me with the finances,
finances,
>> it's not the anger I need to express.
It's the hurt you make me feel because
my father never trusted me with anything
that required responsibility or my
mother because my brother who was
murdered never really encouraged me to
do anything that was risky. And so when
a man can express his heart to his wife
or the woman in his life, a mature
woman, she drops her guard and now we
can communicate. Now this is to the men
and to the women. Women should listen as well.
well.
>> Oh, I'm listening. I'm hanging on every word.
word.
>> I tell men, listen, stop allowing the
fear of her using it against you to
prevent you from being a human being. As
we were making this journey, Nicole uh I
share this story in the book. We were in
a car at a grocery store parking lot and
this was the first time I expressed
myself without yelling.
>> How long had you been married?
>> 26 years.
>> So it so and and and the reason why I'm
saying this, Jason, is because I speak
for the person listening right now and
probably the entire planet and that I
could just sit here and listen to you as
if I were in the best sermon ever. M
>> and the more I
absorb what you're teaching us,
>> there is no doubt in my mind that it's
true and I start to feel this sense of
like what do I do?
>> What do I do?
>> You know, if if if you're a man who's
hearing this and you're like, I scream
at everybody. I am carrying so much from
my past and from my father and my
grandfather and I work work work and if
I'm not providing or I lost my job, I've
lost my way. And I guess we're going to
get to what to do, but I want to hear
you validate that there's hope. Because
if you were married to Nicole for 26
years and it took you that long before
you could express yourself without the
default of anger, there's hope for us all.
all.
>> Absolutely. And even right now, we still
go through intense marriage therapy. And
I was sharing the story. I'm glad you
shared what you did because at that very
moment I had to make a decision cuz
Nicole yells at me, says, "You're the
most emotional man I ever met." And
slams the door. >> Oh.
>> Oh.
>> So, I'm like, I know she didn't just
call me out like that, my manhood. And I
said, you know what? I'mma go back to
being this man who comes in the house
very dogmatic, unresolved anger, not
patient with you, and I'mma give you
what you want. But that's when I
realized like, wait a minute. I'm not
doing this for you. See, again, there it
is with the manhood piece.
>> We're used to doing everything for
everyone else except us. I tell men to
fight for yourself like you do others.
You deserve this life. You deserve the
freedom. I made the decision that day.
I'm not going back. I'm not going back
in that sale where's loneliness,
>> where I'm depressed and anger and
suicidal thoughts and thinking about my
father. I'm not going back. You're going
to have to walk with me as this new man.
And then to the wives, be gracious to
yourself. cuz Nicole had to unlearn what
she had been deceived to believe a man
is. So, it's a process on both sides and
it's a journey you both can take. Let's
say the person who's listening to you
right now is recognizing I have a lot of
issues with anger and I get so
frustrated and I raise my voice and I do
want to get control of this. Is there a
tip that you have for how you can keep
yourself peaceful and centered as you're
talking to somebody that you care about,
especially if it's about a subject that
you might get testy around?
>> I I actually keep a picture of my wife
and my phone. And because I know that
majority of time when we're having
disagreements, it's not necessarily the
Nicole who's 51 speaking, but Nicole who
was 8 or 10 years old who's speaking
during a time in her life where things
were unstable. And so this what this
does, it keeps my heart tender towards
Nicole. I look at this picture whenever
we're having some discord or just a
disagreement or a distance and it
softens my heart towards her and it
makes me more present and when I come
home and we can talk about it, I want to
talk to the little girl, you know, cuz
it's always a cause and effect for every
behavior. And this picture is a reminder
that we all have broken boys and broken
girls inside. And so I often tell wives
to do the same. ask their husband for a
picture of a time in their childhood
when it was turbulent or they was
experiencing a lot of hurt or trauma and
have the wife to download the picture in
their phone and then whenever they're
having argument or feeling distance she
could look at the picture and say hm I
wonder if this is little Dave coming out
right now do I need to speak to that
person and so this is a great exercise
that I I do for my heart to make sure
that um as much as I am tough that I am
tender as well.
>> I love this because Jason, what I'm
realizing is I could use this with
Chris. You know, I can get so caught up
in my emotions and I take it out on him
that I forget
who I actually married and that he's
just a really good guy. And I love this.
What are the surprising reasons
>> that men are so angry that are important
for the person listening to either
understand or if the person listening is
a guy and you're validating their
experience for them to feel validated
that they're not alone
>> in experiencing this?
>> I would say
we want to be understood too.
We want to be heard, too. Um, we don't
like being made to feel that we're crazy
for expressing a concern for something
that's not a concern for you because if
we were to do it, we'll be considered
impatient or not loving.
And as men, we just want to be heard. I
can't tell you often I would share with
Nicole about an issue I would have with
our children. And as a loving mother,
she takes sides with the children.
>> Oh, I do this all the time. Jason, did
Chris tell you to say this?
>> Well, I'm glad I'm saying it. And so I
had to tell her, I said, "But you didn't
hear me, though.
>> You didn't hear what hurt me. I
acknowledge I always acknowledge my
wrong to my children. I'm not perfect. I
just strive to be present. But you
didn't hear my heart.
>> You didn't hear how I felt when my son
said this." And so as a wife, when you
miss that, you'll say as a husband, I
can't give her my heart.
>> Well, and I also I think you just made
me see for the first time.
>> That if your husband or your partner
doesn't feel like you're with them, it
means you're against them. M
>> and now all of a sudden I didn't mean
to, but I've just blocked you out of
your own family
>> because I've aligned myself with the
interest of the kids in this opinion
that I need to protect them from your
anger versus taking a step toward you
>> and allowing you to be heard and validated.
validated.
And the same thing must be true with
your son or your brother as well.
Because if you don't ever feel that your
concerns or feelings are actually
validated and you're always bossed
around with discipline and being told
what you're doing wrong and the constant
>> nagging and pointing out, which is more
of the do, work, work, work,
>> provide, provide, provide, whether it's
grades or it's wins on the football
field or whatever it may the honeydew list
list
>> or the honeydew list. Like now you're
being reduced
>> to the actions that you take instead of
your experience.
>> Yeah. And it's it's we're in it
together. And there's nothing wrong with
protecting the children. Um I protect
>> but you got to validate
>> the concern.
>> That's the key. So sometime the cold is
the lion with and I say hold on Cole and
it goes both ways. But to your point,
you're absolutely correct. Is that well,
let me let me get outside of the mother
right now and let me hear my husband's
heart because you want that as well.
>> You don't want us to just focus on your
words. You want us to hear what you're
really saying.
>> The most important things we miss,
>> we need to focus on that. I often look
at the things that haven't been said.
her body language, her Nicole's eyes,
even how she's moving in communication,
and it lets me know what I'm missing.
>> See, I think you just actually shared
shared
the surprising thing that no one talks
about. And I'm going to admit something.
This is not going to surprise you, but
it might surprise you as you're
listening to me and Jason. So, as you
know, Jason, my husband started a men's
retreat called Soul Degree, and he leads
them three or four times a year, takes
12 guys, ages 21 to 75, all different
backgrounds in life. They spend 5 days
off the grid practicing everything
you're talking about. meditation, yoga,
silent hikes, small groupoup discussions
about things that are happening in their
life, hopes and dreams that they have,
frustrations, and you come out feeling
like you've reflected, reset,
>> you know, you've released and you've
rested, and you feel renewed. And Chris
does not share anything confidential,
but I've often asked him, "What is the
biggest takeaway?"
And he said that universally
that the men that he works with all say
that they come last, that everybody's
needs come before theirs. And I'm going
to tell you something. When he first
told me, I was like, "That's complete
BS. You guys are watching golf and
you're watching the game and you know,
you go to work, but then you come home,
you do whatever you want." And
that was me rejecting a truth. And when
I stopped myself and just said, "Okay,
well, let me just process this for a minute.
minute.
Do I even know what Chris's needs are?
>> Does he even know what they are?" And it
struck me because I'd love for you to
turn to chapter nine in your book
because you write about the exact same
thing. It's on page 139. And I want you
to read the first part of that so we can
unpack this. And as you listen, you're
either going to feel validated or I want
you to have an open mind about the truth
of this. One of the most significant
obstacles preventing men from breaking
free from emotional incarceration and
evolving into comprehensive men is the
inclination to suffer alone in silence.
This suffering persists because men
often believe nobody cares. See, I think
that's probably the biggest problem. Do
you think that's true?
>> Absolutely. This it ties to that, you
know, we'll say, "I'm alone." You're not alone.
alone.
>> Well, and I'll tell you something else.
I'd say 95% of the men
>> that either sign up for information
about Soul Degree, which is Chris's
retreats, and this is probably true of
the work that you do and the seminars
that you do, are women who are wanting
the men in their life to really get some support
support
>> and the men aren't thinking they
necessarily need it. And I believe
>> that we have an epidemic. I see this
with our son who I'm fine. I got it. You
know, would rather just soldier on than
burden somebody else
>> and not even sure what he needs. And so
I would love
>> to have you teach us
>> what the hell do we do? Because as I
listen to you and I kind of like think
about, okay, I'm with you and I see some
of the mistakes that I make that are so
subtle, but it's like death by a
thousand cuts that isolate somebody, you
know? How do you address anger in your
son or your husband or your father or
your brother? I mean, because if I bring
it up and I'm like, "Dude, you seem
angry." He's like, "No, I'm not." Like,
so how I'm not I'm not running a dojo in
Detroit and getting people to cuz you
have this groundbreaking method
>> that I would love to have you explain to
the person listening. But then I want
you to teach me how do I do this? How do
I reach my husband? How do I reach my
son? How do I reach my brother? And I
would love for you, Jason, to describe
this groundbreaking method
>> that you developed using martial arts
and boxing to help boys in particular
process emotion. And then we're going to
get into, but what do I do at home?
>> As men, um, we have to own what we're
doing as unhealthy. Meaning, if we walk
around with this looking like a
superhero, we're going to keep being
asked to do superhero things cuz
superheroes don't sleep. They don't need
a life. You don't need to go hang with
your friends. We first have to remove
the cape, leave it at the door, or
better yet, put it in the trash and
says, and say, "I'm a human being. I'm
not to be treated like I don't need
sleep. I'm impervious to emotional pain
or anguish." And so as men, you have to
first acknowledge that this life is not
what I want.
>> Can I ask you a question? >> Sure.
>> Sure.
>> I want you to give the man listening >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> an assignment.
>> So what to do? I would tell him first
acknowledge that you're worth more than
what you can do. When you get there, and
when I got there, I was able to say, "I
can't do it today. I'm sorry you may be
disappointed, Nicole, but I won't be
able to paint the living room until next
month." Sometimes the most responsible
thing you can do, my brother, is to let
things go undone so that you can get
some rest. So that you can not only be
present for your family, but to be
present for yourself. To be able to look
in the mirror and say, "Wow, I miss this
side here. This is hurting me. This is
my father neglecting me. I need to
revisit this. Maybe I need to go see a
therapist or a counselor. Or better yet,
I may need to go see my father because
the last thing I would want to happen is
for him to transition out of this place
with unresolved hurt, pain, and emotions
and maybe trauma. And so identify that
you're worth more than what you can do.
Also, your value resting actually is a
confirmation that you're taking care of
yourself. I don't say self-love, I say
self-maintenance because we as men
understand what it means to maintain
something. So, please start maintaining
yourself and practice saying no and not
now. As hard as it can be as this
superhero dad, superhero husband, saying
no is actually saying yes to yourself.
And you deserve to be treated as a
human. You just now have to fight for
that in a way where it doesn't condemn
or hurt those that you love, but yet you
make a stance in protecting where you're going.
going.
>> I love that. And one of the things I
want to highlight is that the first step
to changing your life is admitting that
you no longer are enjoying
>> the way you're living it currently.
>> I often tell men, you're not tired of
living, you're tired of not living.
>> And that's what men are dealing with.
This This isn't life. This isn't worth
it. Everyone else gets to eat off the
fruit of my labor and all I do is labor.
You've just heard the direct words from
you about rest. What would you counsel
a man to do next?
>> It's time to delve deep. Let's go where
you fear the most introspectively. Let's
deal with the childhood trauma that
keeps resurfacing. The boy that arrives
in a argument with your wife. Let's help
him heal. So many men are walking around
with broken boys and it's it's truly a
sad sight to see because you can see it
in their behavior, fighting at sporting
events, just the reaction. No response,
just reacting to anything that pricks
the skin. And so I tell men to be
courageous and let's let's delve deep.
Let's go where it will hurt. Where you
will feel what people would say
unmasculine emotions. Let's deal with
the sadness, the deep hurt of never
really getting affirmation from your
mother or affection. And I love what
Chris is doing. The best place to start
is a retreat, especially an intensive
one where you have to leave the phone
and everything away and go off grid and
really deal with yourself. Uh it's
another great one called the Crucible
where I went on to heal from my father
wound. And all throughout the entire
time I had prayed and God says, "I'm
going show you who you are." I didn't
think I was a leader cuz my father would
curse me out for the simplest things. I
would never do an interview like this if
I hadn't dug deep and went to the areas
in my life that caused the most chaos
internally. So I tell men, run to that
like you would run to your family if
someone's breaking into your home. You
have to be okay with feeling. You have
to be okay with being human. You have to
be okay with revisiting the past so you
can stop allowing your trauma to time
travel and ruin your present. And that's
what it's about. It's about you want to
be masculine, let's do it. Let's fight
right now. Let's be bold and face
ourselves so that now you can become a
comprehensive man. Now you can heal. Now
you can be in the areas in your life
where you need it the most. And so when
men say, "How do I become this
comprehensive man? I want it." I say,
"Run to the areas that hurt you the
most, that make you feel weak or not
masculine or strong."
>> I love this framework. that you develop,
that you teach called the comprehensive
man. And I would love for you to explain
the difference
>> between the masculine man and the
comprehensive man. And you write about
this in your book, but if you would just
go through the six attributes of what
the traditional masculine male does
versus what's available to you if you
give yourself the freedom to feel.
Absolutely. So on one side of this chart
we have the masculine male and on the
other side is the comprehensive man. So
the masculine male suppresses his
emotions and hides behind a facade to
appear strong as we've been sharing
throughout this conversation.
>> And it makes you exhausted. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And angry and isolated. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And never able to rest. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> And what is the comprehensive man?
What's available? Contrast, the
comprehensive man expresses his emotions
freely without fear of being judged. The
masculine male exudes only masculine
characteristics. Again, he's only
strong. He's only a provider. He's only
the protector, but it's not a
comprehensive definition of what a man
is. You want to become a human being,
not a human doing.
>> And so, you have to navigate through all
of the characteristics that you must be
as a comprehensive man. Believe it or
not, you are a nurturer. How many men,
well, you're starting to see more of it
now, but typically with the aggressive
dog breeds, you'll see a man with five
or six Rottweilers or Connor Cororsos
compassionately taking care of him, but
he looks the image still is tough. The
challenge is I like to see one of you
get a dog like I have a cava pool and do
the same thing, but still you can put
your dog down and take care of business
if someone tries to challenge you. A
friend of mine actually, I'm glad we're
talking about this. He's a ex-Marine,
severe PTSD, and he bought a dog, a Shih
Tzu. He had no idea how this dog would
change his life. And he was walking the
dog one day and a guy yelled across the
street, "You need a real dog." And he
yells back, "When you're a real dog, you
only need a pet."
See, that's that's what it's about. Know
who you are as a man. Doesn't matter how
you view me. I love flowers for what it
does for my mind. But test me if you
want to go there. I'm comprehensive. I
will not be boxed in anymore.
>> I want to just stop and say, do you hear
the power in what Jason is saying? I
love flowers because of what it does to
my mind. But don't you dare test me. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> I love this little dog because I love
like cuddling this soft furry thing. I
don't need a pet to prove that I'm a man.
man. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> I need some love in return for all that
I give.
>> And I love aggressive breeze, male. I've
owned Rottweilers and German Shepherds.
At this stage in my life, all that I've
been through, I needed something softer
to come home to. Um, we can go to number
three. I guess the masculine male feels
threatened when another man is more
successful than him.
>> See it all the time. The comprehensive
man, however, in contrast, is not
threatened by another man's success, but
instead he's inspired by it. When I
became comprehensive, I stopped
comparing myself to others and start
saying, "Wow, that's amazing. I wonder
how I'm supposed to walk on this earth.
What is my purpose? I'm happy for him,
but I want to know my path." You know
what I see there is when you think
everybody else's success or happiness or
bank account or car is a threat now
you're against everybody.
>> Very good.
>> And when you become
whole and in your terms a comprehensive
man that is free to express how he
feels. He is free to be strong and to be
nurturing. He is free to be whole.
Then you realize the game of life.
You're never against other people.
You're actually playing with them. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> Which means it's not an individual sport
where you're against the world isolated.
>> You're actually on the field playing
with a big team and it's everybody.
>> Very good. And often times as men we
look at being an individual as being isolated.
isolated.
>> And this is a good one. This is why I
put it here. The masculine male views
women as subservient and sex objects,
but the comprehensive man respects women
and values their superior qualities. The
masculine male feels fear but will do
anything to prevent anyone from knowing
he is scared. The comprehensive man
feels fear but openly admits it and
thereby makes wise life decisions. You
cannot beat an opponent you deny
>> is there. And so when you recognize that
you're afraid, you now open up the
opportunity to remind yourself that you
have the capability and the capacity to
figure it out.
>> You triggered a memory of a viral video
from the cave. One of my students wanted
to be a robotics engineer and we were
doing a drill where he had to hold on to
me. Just hold on. Cuz we were working
through judo. Don't let go. Don't let
go. And then he just stopped. He says,
"I'm hurt, sir." And I look him in his face.
face.
I said, "You sure?" He says, "No, sir.
I'm nervous."
>> I say, "I want you to yell out, "I'm
nervous." Moving forward, "I'm nervous.
I'm nervous." He had more strength in
his hands than he had the entire drill.
When you identify it and call it out,
now you can rule it. And that's what I
teach our boys and men. You can't have
power when you're repressing and holding
everything in. Eventually, it's going to
implode or explode. It's going to come
out. And lastly, the masculine male is a
slave to his thoughts and emotions. But
the comprehensive man masters his
emotions before his thoughts become
toxic. if the person listening is
worried about their son because I know
there have been plenty of times where
Oakley seems bottled up or bothered by
something going on or angry about
something and I'm like so how are you
doing? He's like fine
>> and doesn't want to talk.
What do you advise us to say if we want
to reach our sons
>> but they're not talking to us?
>> First thing is respect their world. And
I've been guilty of saying, "Wait till
you get a real job. Wait till this
happen." Then you understand what
pressure is about. Once you've done
that, you've put a wall up between you
and them.
>> The truth is, they're experiencing more
pressure than you and I did growing up
at their age.
>> So acknowledge that what's big to them
should be mammoth to you.
>> Oo, I love that. What's big to them
>> should be mammoth to you.
>> Should be mammoth to you because we tend
to, oh, it's not that big of it. You'll
get over it. Like I I I dealt with it
and I turned out fine. When I work with
kids who are on the spectrum, I join
their side. I try to become them. If you
drop this pen, it may sound like a bomb
to them. Oh, how loud is it really,
Michael? How do you deal with that?
Connect with them on their world. Do not
impassively dismiss your children. Once
you do that, you potentially risk losing them.
them.
>> Number two, don't worry about
perfection. Worry about being present.
So often as parents, we think their
behavior is attributed to something we
did or didn't do. They have a life
outside of us. We're not there 8 hours
of their day. We don't know what's going
on. They can bypass us because they have
the cell phones. Now worry about being
present. When my son is quiet and shuts
down, it hurts me cuz I love my son, but
my goal is to be present. So I come to
his room, the door, and say, "Hey, do
you mind if I lay down and just read? I
just want to be around you, but I don't
want to, you know, invade your space."
He said, "Oh, sure." His quietness, his
being reserved or short. Didn't have
anything to do with me.
>> I've never actually done that.
>> I didn't say a word to him. I just lay
down next to him. The power of my
presence speaks a love that my words
could never.
>> And it makes a major difference. Another
thing I tell parents is what could you
live with? Cuz a lot of parents are
like, "Well, I'm just going to let them
do it. I'm tired of this." Never let
your children just be. It's too dangerous.
dangerous.
>> What do you mean, what could you live with?
with?
>> Could you live with receiving a call
that one of your children overdosed? >> No.
>> No.
>> That's what I mean.
Or could you live with humbling
yourself, feeling like you're stretching
yourself beyond what it means to be a
parent just so that your your son or
daughter can heal, just so that they can
have someone to talk to? Are you willing
to inconvenience yourself and put your
job down to lay in a room with your
child? Or even better yet, hey, can we
just go take a walk? Mommy's or dad is
going through something as well. I
advise especially like businessmen that
take a walk with your children. leave
the phone at home. It's amazing what it
does for the relationship because in
that moment, they're the most important
thing in the world. Dad or mom just
stopped everything for me. When our
children know we love them,
they're unstoppable. They don't need the
world's affirmation. Believe it or not,
studies prove that we're the most
influential figures in our children's
life. That's hard to deal with as a
parent cuz it's like man I'm dropping
the ball sometimes. And so I said, "What
could you live with?" I couldn't live
with that with my son knowing that he's
going through all of that. And the
pressure gets him to do something that
could hurt himself. I'm going to do
whatever it takes to stretch myself to
love him. Apologize more than try to be
right. I'm sorry, son. I I didn't mean
to hurt your feelings. I'm I'm sorry
that I didn't intend that way, but so so
what because my intentions if it still
hurt you I was wrong. Do you forgive me,
son? How can we move forward? You're the
most important thing to me. I love you.
When we as parents can deny ourselves of
ourselves, cuz our children, that's what
matters the most. Not what you're doing
here, what I do. When we're older,
sitting on our front porch,
>> the most important thing we're going to
think about is how are our children? Not
this podcast, not our jobs, not what
we've achieved for the world, but our legacy.
legacy.
>> Thank you for sharing that. So Jason,
you said if there's an opening that you
want to create, well, if I do want to
create that opening, whether it's with
my husband or my son or my brother or my
dad or any guy in my life, are there
certain words I should use? I mean, how
do I create that opening with somebody
that's shut down? In fact, can you speak
directly to a woman who's listening who
really wants to create that opening but
just doesn't even know how to begin the
conversation? I encourage you first to
do one thing is I tell women all the
time it's very difficult for you to
train your husband or to help him
because remember he's been conditioned
that coming to you or showing any side
of weakness makes him less of a man.
It's not you. It's how society has what he has allowed society to define him. So
he has allowed society to define him. So first don't blame yourself thinking it's
first don't blame yourself thinking it's something you're doing or not doing.
something you're doing or not doing. understand it's a part of the culture.
understand it's a part of the culture. Secondly, I advise every woman who asks
Secondly, I advise every woman who asks me this question, go to my social media
me this question, go to my social media or YouTube, better yet social media, and
or YouTube, better yet social media, and send him a real of something that I say
send him a real of something that I say that may strike a chord with him. Say,
that may strike a chord with him. Say, this came across my feed. I think you
this came across my feed. I think you may be interested in this. This is very
may be interested in this. This is very intriguing. And allow him to follow the
intriguing. And allow him to follow the rabbit trail. It almost always happens
rabbit trail. It almost always happens because as men we all long for the same
because as men we all long for the same freedom and that's the freedom to be
freedom and that's the freedom to be human. The freedom to express the things
human. The freedom to express the things that are wearing us down that we carry
that are wearing us down that we carry every day seemingly for everyone else
every day seemingly for everyone else when we can just release it and find a
when we can just release it and find a new life. And lastly,
new life. And lastly, live from the good in your heart, the
live from the good in your heart, the desire that you have. Allow yourself to
desire that you have. Allow yourself to freely love him. And when he opens up,
freely love him. And when he opens up, never and passively dismiss his
never and passively dismiss his emotions. Always listen intently as if
emotions. Always listen intently as if he was your beloved son or your best
he was your beloved son or your best friend. Try not to have a lot of input
friend. Try not to have a lot of input at all. Embrace it the moment. Be
at all. Embrace it the moment. Be thankful that your warrior has opened up
thankful that your warrior has opened up and there's a possibility now that not
and there's a possibility now that not only he could become a better husband
only he could become a better husband and father, but yet your marriage and
and father, but yet your marriage and family will blossom. And then I have
family will blossom. And then I have another one I can't leave out. Never try
another one I can't leave out. Never try to change the weather.
to change the weather. >> What does that mean?
>> What does that mean? >> As caring and well-intentioned wives
>> As caring and well-intentioned wives often do, you want to make things
often do, you want to make things better. So when your husband finally
better. So when your husband finally opens up, you'll say, "Hey babe, it's
opens up, you'll say, "Hey babe, it's going to be okay. It's it's not that
going to be okay. It's it's not that bad." When clearly it is. That's
bad." When clearly it is. That's dismissive.
dismissive. Men are warriors. We want to fight.
Men are warriors. We want to fight. Sometimes we need to sit with it. So for
Sometimes we need to sit with it. So for you to say it's sunshining and we
you to say it's sunshining and we clearly see it's raining doesn't help.
clearly see it's raining doesn't help. When my wife comes to me and say, "Jay,
When my wife comes to me and say, "Jay, I don't know how you do it, but I'm
I don't know how you do it, but I'm proud to be married to a man of your
proud to be married to a man of your strength and character. I couldn't
strength and character. I couldn't imagine having the weight that you have.
imagine having the weight that you have. How you try to love me and how we argue
How you try to love me and how we argue and even when I'm wrong, you try your
and even when I'm wrong, you try your best or your job." When you affirm a man
best or your job." When you affirm a man that way, now you're feeding into the
that way, now you're feeding into the masculine warrior side of him while also
masculine warrior side of him while also affirming the nurturing, the compassion,
affirming the nurturing, the compassion, the love that he needs from you. And now
the love that he needs from you. And now he becomes more open like, "Oh, wait a
he becomes more open like, "Oh, wait a minute. So me opening up is actually
minute. So me opening up is actually increasing her respect for me, is
increasing her respect for me, is actually making me appear stronger."
actually making me appear stronger." Women never forget you have a great
Women never forget you have a great influence. Boys don't fight when people
influence. Boys don't fight when people talk about their dads. They fight when
talk about their dads. They fight when they talk about their mothers. When a
they talk about their mothers. When a wife undergurs a man with those type of
wife undergurs a man with those type of words, the calming touch rubbing his
words, the calming touch rubbing his scalp when he doesn't expect it. When he
scalp when he doesn't expect it. When he takes a nap and he jumps up, you come
takes a nap and he jumps up, you come and put your hands on his shoulders.
and put your hands on his shoulders. Hey, lay back down. You had a very long
Hey, lay back down. You had a very long day today and I need you to take this
day today and I need you to take this rest in. As a man who lost his mother, I
rest in. As a man who lost his mother, I tell you the truth, when Nicole does
tell you the truth, when Nicole does that to me, I she is my replacement, the
that to me, I she is my replacement, the nurturing for what I miss from my
nurturing for what I miss from my mother.
mother. >> You know, speaking of moms, we have a
>> You know, speaking of moms, we have a lot of them writing in who are worried
lot of them writing in who are worried about their 20some sons
about their 20some sons >> who are failing to launch. You talked
>> who are failing to launch. You talked about this earlier.
about this earlier. What do we need to know about what's
What do we need to know about what's actually going on when you see some a
actually going on when you see some a young man struggling like that?
young man struggling like that? >> Well, first thing, when I talk to young
>> Well, first thing, when I talk to young men, younger men that age, you
men, younger men that age, you understand they don't have mentors.
understand they don't have mentors. >> They're in a rough spot because the
>> They're in a rough spot because the mentors now are trying to do their own
mentors now are trying to do their own thing and they don't have time to pour
thing and they don't have time to pour into these men, these younger men. So
into these men, these younger men. So imagine being in a world where everyone
imagine being in a world where everyone says be a man, but you don't have one
says be a man, but you don't have one there faithfully teaching you how to be
there faithfully teaching you how to be one. So you have frustration,
one. So you have frustration, self-doubt,
self-doubt, self- condemning thoughts, you're
self- condemning thoughts, you're discouraged, and more importantly,
discouraged, and more importantly, you're scared. So when you see your son
you're scared. So when you see your son disengaged or staying on the game
disengaged or staying on the game longer, those are his wins. going to the
longer, those are his wins. going to the store, uh, building something that
store, uh, building something that doesn't make him money. That's something
doesn't make him money. That's something he's just trying to win at. So, don't
he's just trying to win at. So, don't focus on that. Focus on trying to get
focus on that. Focus on trying to get him involved with men that could really
him involved with men that could really help him become one.
help him become one. >> Um, if the father is too busy, which
>> Um, if the father is too busy, which happens a lot of times, trying to
happens a lot of times, trying to provide,
provide, >> you have to find an uncle or a cousin or
>> you have to find an uncle or a cousin or someone to say, "Can you please pick up
someone to say, "Can you please pick up Johnny and take him with you to work?
Johnny and take him with you to work? I'll pay you. I have men all around my
I'll pay you. I have men all around my son. I am a man's man. I do this. I
son. I am a man's man. I do this. I teach this. And I know I'm not enough.
teach this. And I know I'm not enough. >> You know, Jason, if you could speak to
>> You know, Jason, if you could speak to the 15year-old version of Jason Wilson,
the 15year-old version of Jason Wilson, >> what would you tell him?
>> what would you tell him? >> First thing I would tell him is that
>> First thing I would tell him is that you're good enough.
you're good enough. Um, when you have so much trauma in your
Um, when you have so much trauma in your family, especially uh growing up uh in
family, especially uh growing up uh in my community, you don't feel you're good
my community, you don't feel you're good enough. You look at society, the way
enough. You look at society, the way you're viewed because the color of your
you're viewed because the color of your skin, your mother checking out, your
skin, your mother checking out, your father not there. I see little Jason in
father not there. I see little Jason in the field across from my home by
the field across from my home by himself, playing baseball by himself.
himself, playing baseball by himself. Hit the ball, go get the ball, hit the
Hit the ball, go get the ball, hit the ball, go get the ball. And I would tell
ball, go get the ball. And I would tell them, you're good enough. And believe it
them, you're good enough. And believe it or not, your parents love you.
or not, your parents love you. One of them is wounded with so much
One of them is wounded with so much trauma that she can't release it. And
trauma that she can't release it. And the other one thinks his worth is in his
the other one thinks his worth is in his work. And he doesn't see your value
work. And he doesn't see your value until he becomes an old man stricken
until he becomes an old man stricken with Parkinson's disease. And now he's
with Parkinson's disease. And now he's available and you two reconcile.
available and you two reconcile. So I would tell him, you're worth
So I would tell him, you're worth everything. you're valuable and you can
everything. you're valuable and you can cry. Cuz so many times in my life as a
cry. Cuz so many times in my life as a young boy experiencing the loss of
young boy experiencing the loss of friends, uh when I was in the eighth
friends, uh when I was in the eighth grade, my friend Kelly got shot in the
grade, my friend Kelly got shot in the head by a gun that one of our classmates
head by a gun that one of our classmates had. He was just passing it to a another
had. He was just passing it to a another classmate and the gun went off and shot
classmate and the gun went off and shot Kelly. We didn't have therapists. We
Kelly. We didn't have therapists. We didn't have counselors. We had to work
didn't have counselors. We had to work through that ourselves. I never cried.
through that ourselves. I never cried. And as a result, I started crying the
And as a result, I started crying the wrong way when I became a teenager. My
wrong way when I became a teenager. My grades plummeted. I became
grades plummeted. I became uh angry at my mom and she's the main
uh angry at my mom and she's the main person there and I couldn't release it.
person there and I couldn't release it. So I would tell him you can cry, be
So I would tell him you can cry, be human. And lastly,
human. And lastly, don't conform to the ways of this world.
Excuse me. Be you live from the good in your heart,
Be you live from the good in your heart, Jason.
Jason. If not, it's going to lead you in areas
If not, it's going to lead you in areas where you're gonna put your life at
where you're gonna put your life at risk. I almost died three times
risk. I almost died three times trying to be something my heart was too
trying to be something my heart was too big for. Like Tupac said, I wasn't a
big for. Like Tupac said, I wasn't a killer, but don't push me. And I tried
killer, but don't push me. And I tried to wear the suit of a thug. And I made
to wear the suit of a thug. And I made an acronym for it after becoming a
an acronym for it after becoming a mature man. that thug is a traumatized
mature man. that thug is a traumatized human unable to grieve
human unable to grieve >> and that's all I was
>> and that's all I was and uh I fit in and had guns to my head
and uh I fit in and had guns to my head before mail and I I probably wouldn't be
before mail and I I probably wouldn't be here if not for the grace of God. And so
here if not for the grace of God. And so I would tell Jason
I would tell Jason to don't try to fit in.
to don't try to fit in. Follow God. Follow your calling. You're
Follow God. Follow your calling. You're unique.
unique. Don't conform.
Don't conform. And then you'll truly uh carve out your
And then you'll truly uh carve out your way. And in the end, Jason,
you'll heal. You'll find freedom.
You'll find freedom. Your father, you'll finally hear at the
Your father, you'll finally hear at the age of 37 that he loves you. And you'll
age of 37 that he loves you. And you'll finally get the affection from your
finally get the affection from your mother that you longed for young when
mother that you longed for young when she finally gets dementia and can forget
she finally gets dementia and can forget all the trauma she's been through.
all the trauma she's been through. It wasn't until my mother lost her mind
It wasn't until my mother lost her mind that she could actually experience life
that she could actually experience life cuz she could no longer remember the
cuz she could no longer remember the trauma.
trauma. So I tell him to
So I tell him to be hopeful,
be hopeful, become comprehensive.
become comprehensive. >> I love you, Jason.
>> I love you, Jason. >> Love you, too. And I mean that.
>> Love you, too. And I mean that. >> I really do. And I think um
>> I really do. And I think um that acronym for thug, I think that
that acronym for thug, I think that there's
there's more people than not who are traumatized
more people than not who are traumatized humans unable to grieve walking around.
humans unable to grieve walking around. And if you look at another person like
And if you look at another person like that, you can see them with a whole lot
that, you can see them with a whole lot of compassion. Because I think when you
of compassion. Because I think when you feel unseen or invisible
>> um or scared >> in life, you forget who you are.
>> in life, you forget who you are. >> And the kindness that's actually in your
>> And the kindness that's actually in your heart. Like I am convinced that what's
heart. Like I am convinced that what's missing for most people is not the
missing for most people is not the ability
ability >> to
>> to change or to change your life. It's the
change or to change your life. It's the hope
hope that anything's going to matter.
that anything's going to matter. >> That despair
>> That despair and
and the
the unexpressed grief
unexpressed grief about all the things that you've
about all the things that you've experienced or haven't experienced
experienced or haven't experienced is what keeps you from doing what you
is what keeps you from doing what you know in your heart you'd like to do.
know in your heart you'd like to do. even if it's just saying to yourself, I
even if it's just saying to yourself, I don't want to feel like this anymore. I
don't want to feel like this anymore. I have to make some changes.
have to make some changes. And so I I cannot thank you enough. I am
And so I I cannot thank you enough. I am grateful
grateful for you, for the work that you do, for
for you, for the work that you do, for how much you poured into us. And I am
how much you poured into us. And I am grateful for the difference that it's
grateful for the difference that it's going to make in the men and the young
going to make in the men and the young men and the boys that listen to this.
men and the boys that listen to this. and for the women who care about them
and for the women who care about them enough to share this with them.
enough to share this with them. >> I'm uh again honored to be here. I love
>> I'm uh again honored to be here. I love you. I don't throw that around loosely.
you. I don't throw that around loosely. I thank you for inspiring me on many
I thank you for inspiring me on many days you have no idea. I thank you for
days you have no idea. I thank you for gracefully pushing me from the smallest
gracefully pushing me from the smallest things like when I asked you for an
things like when I asked you for an endorsement for my first book and you
endorsement for my first book and you told me as an exercise, I want you to
told me as an exercise, I want you to write it cuz I don't think you know who
write it cuz I don't think you know who you are, Jason. And then when I wrote
you are, Jason. And then when I wrote it, of course, you had to make it fit
it, of course, you had to make it fit what you said, but that
what you said, but that >> even bigger.
>> even bigger. >> Yeah. And that that that stuck with me
>> Yeah. And that that that stuck with me male often times, you know, you're
male often times, you know, you're helping so many people that you missed
helping so many people that you missed the man in the mirror.
the man in the mirror. >> And I want to thank you for reminding me
>> And I want to thank you for reminding me who I was in that moment. And I
who I was in that moment. And I appreciate you.
appreciate you. >> Well, I'm going to remind you of who you
>> Well, I'm going to remind you of who you are right now, which is you're the man
are right now, which is you're the man the moment demands.
the moment demands. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you very much. Yeah.
Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Mr. Jason Wilson. Wow.
>> Oh my gosh. Mr. Jason Wilson. Wow. >> You got to give me a hug, man.
>> You got to give me a hug, man. >> I will give you a hug. And before I get
>> I will give you a hug. And before I get out of this chair, I also want to say to
out of this chair, I also want to say to you, thank you for making the time to
you, thank you for making the time to listen to this lifealtering
listen to this lifealtering conversation. Thank you for taking the
conversation. Thank you for taking the time to share this with the men in your
time to share this with the men in your life that you care about. Everybody
life that you care about. Everybody needs some Jason Wilson in their life.
needs some Jason Wilson in their life. And in case no one else tells you, I
And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I
wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I
love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a
believe in your ability to create a better life. And absolutely everything
better life. And absolutely everything that Jason just validated or taught you
that Jason just validated or taught you or opened your eyes and your heart to,
or opened your eyes and your heart to, it will help you create a better life.
it will help you create a better life. and you and the men that you care about,
and you and the men that you care about, you deserve it. Woo! All righty. Um, I
you deserve it. Woo! All righty. Um, I got to go forward this to about 15,000
got to go forward this to about 15,000 people that I love in terms of I
people that I love in terms of I seriously I've got to go forward this
seriously I've got to go forward this conversation to 25 men in my life. And
conversation to 25 men in my life. And so I'm going to talk to you in a few
so I'm going to talk to you in a few days. I'm going to be waiting for you in
days. I'm going to be waiting for you in the very next episode, the moment you
the very next episode, the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. And for
hit play. I'll see you there. And for you on YouTube, I just want to say thank
you on YouTube, I just want to say thank you. Wasn't he incredible? And thank you
you. Wasn't he incredible? And thank you for watching all the way to the end. I
for watching all the way to the end. I love spending time together with you. I
love spending time together with you. I love introducing you to people that have
love introducing you to people that have changed my life and that and whose work
changed my life and that and whose work I find so impactful. And there's no
I find so impactful. And there's no doubt in my mind, every young man, every
doubt in my mind, every young man, every adult male, every guy in your life,
adult male, every guy in your life, their life will be better if they take
their life will be better if they take the time to watch this. So, thank you
the time to watch this. So, thank you for sharing it. And I know you're the
for sharing it. And I know you're the kind of person that loves supporting
kind of person that loves supporting people who support you. So, one thing
people who support you. So, one thing that you could do for me, hit subscribe.
that you could do for me, hit subscribe. It's free. It's a way you can support me
It's free. It's a way you can support me and the team. and tell us, "I love these
and the team. and tell us, "I love these experts, Mel. Keep them coming." And so,
experts, Mel. Keep them coming." And so, thank you, thank you, thank you for
thank you, thank you, thank you for taking just a moment to hit subscribe.
taking just a moment to hit subscribe. And I know you're thinking, "Okay, I
And I know you're thinking, "Okay, I feel so empowered and I want to keep
feel so empowered and I want to keep this going. What should I watch next?"
this going. What should I watch next?" It's a great question. I think you
It's a great question. I think you should check out this video and I'm
should check out this video and I'm going to be waiting to welcome you into
going to be waiting to welcome you into it the moment you hit play. I'll see you
it the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.
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