color your perspective about the initial relationship?
relationship?
I always say that the relationship that
happened after my abusive relationship
was exactly what I needed at that time.
um that that guy that I dated was very
kind, very patient, very peaceful. You
know, I felt safe. I felt emotionally
safe. I felt physically safe. And that
was something that I did not have in my
first relationship at all. It was
literally like the pendulum swung the
exact opposite way. Um and it was
exactly what I needed. It it made it
healed me in so many ways. And I think
um for me, I was so vigilant at the
beginning of that relationship trying to
identify like huge glaring red flags.
And I'm so thankful that he didn't prove
any of my fears to be a reality. Um we
ended up breaking up for other reasons,
and I'm happy to get into that, too. But
I think it's it's really important to
shed light that there can be
relationships after abusive, toxic,
manipulative relationships that work out
or don't work out. And regardless of if
they don't work out, I learned so much
about myself in that relationship. I
think part of what I learned too is that
you cannot change people. As much as you
love each other, as much as you want
things to work, at the end of the day,
if your natures don't match, if you
don't want the same things, if you don't
want them at the same
time, you could try working on it. You
could try going to couples therapy,
you're most likely not going to be able
to change the nature of that person. And
why would you, right? Like if you want
some if somebody needs to change to be
the version of you that you want them to
be that kind of starts like resentment
right or breeds some sort of resentment
towards the end of the relationship. So
the reason why my most previous
relationship ended is because we
honestly wanted different things. And I
think after a couple years in the
relationship, you start realizing, okay,
maybe maybe what you wanted, you don't
actually want because you have those
conversations at the beginning of any
relationship. Okay, do you want to have
kids? What age do you want to do that?
And I think we all have the best
intentions. But I think sometimes when
it when push comes to shove and when the
time comes to actually, you know, put
those plans into motion, some people
actually aren't ready for that. And
that's okay. Um, and that's kind of why
that last relationship ended for me is I
felt like I was a little bit more ready
for something and he wasn't. And I tried
to change that for a while. And at the
end of that, we both decided, hey,
instead of trying to make this work and
trying to make two corner puzzle piece
pieces fit together that are never going
to fit together. um let's you know go
our ways do end this amicably so that we
can you know not resent each other and
not hate each other and we still have a
ton of respect for each other um really
great guy and I know that whoever he
ends up with is going to be very very
happy but there's a level of maturity in
that relationship that I gained that I
did not know was possible
interesting and I think it's important
for people to hear what you just said
because there's some people that think
never again, never again will I get into
a relationship. I'm done. All guys or
all women are terrible. And I think it's
also important to say that that wasn't a
toxic relationship. It wasn't an abusive
or narcissistic relationship. It was
simply not compatible. And not every
breakup is because of, oh, it was just
super toxic. No, not always. Not
sometimes it's just not compatible. And
I think that's an important thing to
emphasize too. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. And I think sometimes it's
even harder that way because if somebody
was abusive to you, if somebody cheated
on you, you have a set instance where
you can point to and say, "This is where
they wronged me. I'm not the problem.
They're the problem." And I think for me
it was really hard at the beginning of
that breakup to understand that, you
know, I had an I had a bit of an ego
crisis where I was like, "Oh my gosh,
like they obviously just didn't want to
be with me, you know, like if they
wanted to get married and have kids, it
they would have, you know, picked me and
they didn't." So it was I had to I
struggled with that a little bit that
you know feeling like I might have been
the problem but really at the end of the
day it's it just goes comes down to
compatibility and especially when
somebody isn't an awful person isn't a
toxic [ __ ] You're like I don't have
anything to point to to make you the
problem. But you know there doesn't need
to be a problem in a relationship. There
doesn't need to be the bad guy or the
good guy. Just two people that didn't
fit together. Yeah. I think that's very
important for people to remember. And I
think another interesting thing I think
people would want to hear about is how
did it feel? Like what were the
differences in feeling between the
abusive relationship and then the
relationship that was healthy but just
not compatible? What were the feelings
that you experienced in the abusive
relationship that you didn't in the next
one? Yeah, that's such a great question.
I think in the abusive relationship, I I
never felt at peace or like I could be
myself. I always felt like I had to
dress a certain way, um, listen to
certain kind of music, and I felt like I
was almost stifling a part of myself.
Like my friends and family always said,
like, you're so much brighter now that
you're out of that relationship. I can
see I can see like your soul again. I
can see those little things that make
you quirky. because I just wanted to be
like the cool, sexy girlfriend and not
like the quirky, clumsy me that I really
am. And I I I really am the opposite of
cool and sexy. You know what I mean?
That's not sell yourself short. Maybe
one day, but it's not my brand right
now. Um, but I was like, "Okay, I just
have to be like perfect essentially for
him because if I mess up, he's he's
gonna punish me for it." So, there was
always that fear in the back of my head
that I was going to be punished for
saying the wrong thing and just so much
hot and coldness. But with with this
guy, the consistency, like consistency
is so sexy. That to me is like the most
incredible thing that somebody can
provide in a relationship is just day in
and day out showing you the same kind of
love regardless of, you know, if you
were snappy towards them or if you know
you're not wearing something that they
like, heaven forbid. But like the the
freedom was there to just be myself
and, you know, be nerdy and explore
parts of me that maybe other people
wouldn't enjoy. But it it really was
like a sense of peace that I felt that I
didn't feel in a toxic relationship. And
trying to think of other other things,
too. But I think it was a lot of
laughter and a lot of joy, too. And just
waking up knowing that like I was going
to get a consistent version of that
person. And that's that kind of peace is
exactly exactly what I needed. Like it
completely reset my nervous system. I
was like, "Oh, wow." like I don't have
to be in fight or flight all the time.
Consistency. Consistency is key. Do you
believe in soulmates?
That is such a good question. Hard-hitting.
Hard-hitting.
Um I I don't think that there's one
specific soulmate. I do think that there
are like I would say that my best friend
is my soulmate. Um she's been with me
through everything. I couldn't see my
life without her. But in terms of like romantic
romantic
soulmates, I think
that Wow, this is such a hard question.
You really stumped me at this. I don't
think that there's one soulmate. No, I
think if there's two people that love
each other, that connect with each
other, that, you know, want to build a
life with each other, and they work at
it, that that to me is the definition of
a soulmate. Because I don't think that I
don't think that you can go into a
relationship and not put in the work and
just assume that whatever soul ties you
have are going to keep you together. I
really think that relationships and love
are efforts, right? Like you have to
actively choose it every single day. And
who knows, maybe if that person is your
soulmate, it's a lot easier for you to
actively choose it. But I think
that all in all, there's there's not one
soulmate for everybody. But I do think
that your soulmate is somebody that puts
in the effort to to be there. I hope
that answers the question. Yeah, it
does. And what you were saying before
reminds me of one of my favorite
definitions of a soulmate. And what you
just said also, I think it's true that
there's many people you can have a great
connection with. I don't think there's
just one, but my favorite definition of
a soulmate is from six feet under. And
they said it's the So maybe you know
what I'm about to say. Do you? I I don't
think so. So, there is a woman a woman
rabbi I think that told Nate because
Nate asked her, "Oh, do you believe in
soulmates?" And she said, "Well, a
soulmate to me is the person that helps
you to become the most you you can be
and helps you to grow the most as a
person while keeping in mind not all
growth is comfortable." And I said,
"Yeah, if I were to believe in a
soulmate, that's what I would believe."
And the key word there was helping you
to become the most you you can be, not
the one that's you feel like you need to
wear a mask or pretend to be someone
you're not to be around. That would be
the red flag to me. I remember that
quote now and I completely agree with
you. It's like if you have to perform to
be around that person, they're more than
likely not the right person for you,
right? Because it should it should be
effortless in a way the way that you
behave in the relationship. Of course
there is effort but if it's if you have
to you know every day put on that mask
of who they want you to be probably not
the right relationship for you. Now why
do people put on that mask you think?
Because I think that's an important part
to go over too. Why do they why do they
do it? I it's such a good question. I
think a lot of the times it's it's hard
to be vulnerable and it's hard to show
people sides that you're not exactly
ready to show for whatever reason that
might be. And I think sometimes it's a
lot easier to just be that perfect
version of yourself or to cosplay what
you think that they want. And it also
helps you avoid a lot of difficult
conversations. So, I think if you're
somebody who's not ready to have those
hard conversations or you're not at the
point yet where you are aware of all
these pieces of you, it's just easier
and it also it also stops you from
heartbreak. And I think it's almost a
survival technique, right? It's if you
open up to this person, if you become
vulnerable, if you don't have a mask on,
that means that there's all these
vulnerabilities that they could
essentially use against you in the
future. And that's only if you're with
somebody who's, you know, toxic or
manipulative. But I think it's a
survival tactic of, you know, making
sure that all your deepest, darkest
secrets aren't out there for the world
to see.
All right. And in this relationship with
him, how long did it take for there to
start being a devaluing phase? Because
was there a love bombing in the
beginning? Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
It was as lovebombing as it gets. It was
probably for the
first four or five months. And from what
I've heard, that's typically how long it
takes for them to start like having that
mask slip. It's within like three to six
months. So, yeah, the love bombing was
really intense. Um, you know, I've never
never met anybody like you telling me I
love you within the first couple weeks
of us dating. And it feels good, right?
Like it feels really good to be wanted
like that from somebody. Especially I
grew up like loving romantic comedies
and Disney movies and just like wanting
to having this idea of a relationship
that was like if somebody isn't head
over heels obsessed with you, then they
probably don't like you, right? And
that's what this past relationship has
also taught me is that love can be
comfortable and consistent without being
ridiculously intense and chaotic. And I
would much rather something
that's on the boring side almost than
something that
like wrecks my nervous system. And I
think you've made a video about that too
to not confuse intensity with love.
Exactly. Exactly. Because that's what
that's exactly what we think like what
the media shows us, what we have this
idea of love to be. So when somebody
starts mimicking that, we don't
necessarily think, oh, like maybe this
isn't genuine, we want to take things at
face value. So that's something that I
have to always remind myself too is that
just because something's intense doesn't
mean that it's good for you and it
doesn't mean that it's a genuine
connection, right? And I think those
romcoms in Disney, they're really poison
in a way. I think especially for kids
that are growing up on that because
ultimately the message of a lot of them
is uh you find a partner and you fall in
love and then happily ever after. Yeah.
But that's in the real world the falling
in love is just that' be the first five
minutes of the movie and then after is
really the work. Then it's okay. How do
you keep this thing together? What's
going on here? But they don't they skip
all that part and they just get you to
no fall in love. the end and Disney
movies like that, romcoms, I just don't
think it serves people. I don't think it
really helps them. I don't think so,
too. And I'm like thinking like, you
know, when I have kids one day, am I
going to let them watch Disney movies?
Like, is this going to be good for kids
to digest? Because I mean, having a mom
like me, I'm always going to be, you
know, throwing therapy talk at them.
And, you know, I'm sure they'll get
their their fix of um their fix of the
real world. But it does make me think
like how how warped our idea of love is
sometimes. And how when we do maybe find
a nice guy, we're like, "Oh, he's too
nice and he's boring and I want somebody
who fawns over me and makes me feel like
I'm on top of the world all the time."
But the thing about being on top of a
pedestal is you can only be on top of
there for so long, right? I think it
would actually be a good opportunity if
you have kids one day, you watch a
Disney movie, and then you go over it.
and so what do you think about that? And
it gives you an opportunity to talk
about that very thing if that's the
message they got from it. Like, oh,
okay, I can see where you would want
this, but how about just know that's not
real life. Real life is you get to that
end point and that's really just the
beginning and there's more stuff going
on from there. That's such a good point
because you can't shield them from
everything that might be, you know,
toxic for their little brains, but you
what you can do is train them to be like
critical of those things, right? and to
ask questions because I think a lot of
us just take things with face value.
Like even with the news, right? Like
we're not really trained to go deeper
into what they're telling us and to find
the the root truth of everything. Not to
get political or whatever. But I think a
lot of times we don't get too we don't
get critical of what's being fed to us.
And everything that's being fed to us
has some sort of message. So either we
we become prey to it or we we learn from
it and we we figure out what makes the
or what truth pertains to
us. No, I absolutely agree with that. I
think it's important to recognize okay
is this person who's telling me this
message. Do they have my best interest
in mind? Why why are they or even that
goes for our own thoughts too? Thoughts
that we have. It's okay. Why do I think
this? How did I get here? And did that
person have my best interest in mind?
Just some good questions to ask
yourself. Oh, yeah. I love thinking
about thinking. It's my favorite thing.
I'm the biggest overinker. There you go.
It's also like reminding yourself that
just because you have a thought doesn't
mean that you have to give a ton of
weight to it, too. Like I have so many
thoughts in my head that I just need to
like acknowledge that they're there and
then kind of
just wash them away. because if if we're
putting a ton of um credence and value
on every single thought that we have,
we're going to spend all day
overthinking. So, I think it's it's
important to acknowledge that you are
having thoughts, but not every thought
deserves equal value. That's a great
point to remember. And back to your
abusive relationship to kind of circle
that in with that. when you were there,
what kinds of things were you telling
yourself to maybe rationalize his
behavior or to stick around? What was
going through your head at the time?
Yeah, there there was a lot. It's um one
of them being they're not always like
this. You know, there there are good
moments and at the beginning the bad
moments are, you know, maybe 5% 10% of
the time. Then I think as you keep going
through the cycle, it unfortunately gets
more and more fre frequent and more
percentage of the time because I think
the more that you allow certain
behaviors to go to go on and I'm not
saying allow in in a way that you're,
you know, welcoming the behavior, but
instead of taking yourself out of the
situation or seeing it for what it is,
the longer that it goes
on, the more intense it gets and the the
harder it is to pull yourself out of it,
I think. So that was one of the one of
the justifications I kept making or
rationalizations is that they're not
always like this. And I'm basing the
relationship at that point on their
potential and not their patterns. And
that's what I try to tell people is pay
attention to the patterns because if
something is happening time and time and
time again, it's not a mistake. And the
more that we allow it to go on, the more
that we're essentially telling them this
is okay,
right? And I think that's important for
people to know too because not that it's
your fault, but just to get people to
realize if they're thinking the same
things about their current partner,
okay, this might be a problem. And I
guess the next question is, what were
you thinking that way in regards to what
behavior of his? Oh, he's not always
like what what was he doing? Oh my gosh,
so many things. I mean, I think um one
thing that I would
always let slide is like the name
calling. Um so I would be called like
the worst names, [ __ ] The C word,
which I don't even like saying that
word. I feel like it just cuts through
the air. You can say it if you want, but
I just I don't like saying that word. Um
and that was something that I was just
like, oh, you know, it's he had a really
bad childhood. he had been through a lot
and maybe he heard his, you know, dad
say that to his mom and that's just
something that he says, you know, when
he's upset and he doesn't know how to
love, but I I see I see his heart and um
I feel like I was letting his past
excuse how he was treating me in the
present and almost justifying it, saying
that all relationships take work and
that also confuses emotional labor with
emotional abuse. Um, so that was another
one that I would constantly say is like,
"Oh, no. Relationships take work. You
know, I'm never going to find somebody
who's perfect, so maybe I'll just stick
this one out." Because, you know, he is
nice to me sometimes and he brings me
flowers and chocolates when he messes
up. And I mean, the mess ups were pretty
big. you know, it was getting choked
and, you know, the all of
the what you think of when you think of
domestic violence. I don't love to get
into like the nitty-gritty of it because
I feel like I don't know if it
necessarily matters to people to hear
exactly what I went through.
Um, but I think for some people they
need to hear it to to kind of validate
their own experience and for others it
could be very triggering to hear. But I
will say that, you know, there was um
there was choking, there was slapping,
there was name calling, there was, you
know, things that weren't necessarily
physical, but that felt very close to
it, like not letting me leave the room.
Um backing me into a corner.
Um, and sometimes I would I would
gaslight myself into thinking that I
deserved it, you know, and that, you
know, maybe had I been a little bit
nicer or maybe if I just listened to
him, I wouldn't have gotten this sort of
treatment, you know, like I internalized
their gaslighting as truth and just
really ignoring the emotional whiplash
of it all. Yeah. I mean, and that's one
of the big indicators of being in a
trauma bond is when you start talking
that way about yourself. And what you
were doing is dearing. I'm not sure if
you've heard that term, but defend,
excuse, explain, rationalize. If someone
does that, that's a warning sign. And I
think the benefit of actually going into
the bad behaviors they were doing is
there are people who truly don't see it.
They don't recognize it as, "Okay, he
beat me up, but he still loves me." Or
they say something along those lines,
and they really don't get it. Like, they
don't truly accept how bad it was. And
to me, that's one of the big things I
see people struggle with, right? Just
accepting, yeah, this person's abusive,
and this person, no matter what you do,
they're not going to collaborate.
They're not going to problem solve.
They're not going to try to understand
you. If anything, it's going to be the opposite.
opposite.
That's that's exactly it. And it's it's
a very confusing situation to be in
because they don't just start out the
gate, you know, with a level 10, you
know, very glaring example of physical
abuse. It always starts small. And it it
brings us to that that um frog in the
boiling water analogy where of course if
you throw a a frog into a pot of hot
water, they're going to jump right out.
But if you put them into a a pot of cold
water and you slowly turn up the heat,
they're not going to jump out until the
very possible last second until they
finally realize what's going on. It's a
very slow buildup. And by the time you
realize what's going on, you're you're
in very deep. And that is that is the
system. It is literally designed to keep
you to keep you gasping for error
essentially, right? And that's the the
system of coercive control is really
what that is. And I think it's also
important to clarify the difference
between playful flirting and roasting,
which might include some name calling
occasionally, versus the bad vibe
version of name calling, the serious
version of it. I think some people I'm
sure if you ask an abusive person they
might try to say that oh I just teasing
or flirting or something but no the
energy won't lie about that kind of
thing. It's going to feel much
different. Oh absolutely. And that's why
I always say you have to trust your gut.
It's it's very hard to do, especially
when you've you're in a situation where
you're kind
of groomed to go against your gut and
taught that your gut doesn't really
matter because you know if you say
something they'll say, "Well, that
didn't happen or they rewrite reality or
whatever it is." But like I think our
gut is always or almost always right and
if something is screaming at you,
there's probably a reason behind it. So
I think that confusion that we feel in
these kinds of relationships and always
wondering where we stand that's our gut
streaming at us to say okay like take a
closer look at this because your
confusion isn't unfounded. There is
there is a route to it and there is a
reason why you're feeling like that.
Right? And I think that's the toughest
part when someone's in a trauma bond in
an abusive relationship. They don't
trust their gut anymore because the
abusive person is able to gaslight them
into not trusting their gut and they
think, "Oh, I must be wrong." And
they'll start doing the rationalizations
that you said you did. And it's a a
circular a very bad process that just
keeps on getting worse and worse. It's
it compounds. But I call it
unsubscribing. You got to unsubscribe
from that distorted version of reality.
I I love that. And I think it's like
think about the version of yourself that
you were before you came into this
relationship. Would they have accepted
what you're going through right now? Um
and then I also ask, you know, if your
mom, if your best friend, if your
sister, brother was in this situation,
what would you tell them to do? And why
aren't you taking your own advice? And
why do you think that you're too strong
or you're too insert adjective here to
handle it and they aren't? So, it's like
that's that's why it's so important to
take a step back in these kind of
things. And if you are noticing that
confusion, just
like try to detach emotionally a little
bit because the emotions and the
justifications is what keeps us so far
in it,
right? And that's the that's a huge
thing there with that too is just
getting through to that point. And the
other thing you were talking about me
yesterday, where does radical acceptance
come into play with this? Oh my gosh, I
I love radical ac acceptance and I'm
glad you brought it up because I think
it's I think it's a term that gets
misunderstood all the time. And it's not
the same as approval, right? It's not
forgiveness. It's not just being the
bigger person. It's definitely not the
spiritual bypassing where you float
above the pain and you say, "Oh, this is
just who they are and I have compassion
for it." No, not at all. I think radical
acceptance is that like mental reset
button that you hit when your nervous
system is stuck in a loop, when you're
trying to fix them, when you're trying
to justify them. And it's the moment
that you say to yourself, "I don't have
to like this, but I do have to stop
denying it. This is what's happening.
This is how they're treating me. This
this is what I'm in." Because when
you're in a trauma bond like that, your
brain is constantly looking for relief
through illusion. That's what I call it.
And you're zooming in on those good
moments. You're twisting their backstory
into a reason for the behavior and
you're finding meaning in the
mistreatment. And that's what we do to
survive. And I get that. We narrate our
pain so it feels less chaotic. We'll
tell ourselves stories like those like
those rationalizations. He's like this
because of his trauma or she doesn't
mean it. She's just scared of losing me.
Um or they love me. They just don't know
how to show it. That to me is not
radical acceptance. That is like
emotional rationalization. And that's
staying in something harmful. while you
try to frame it into something that it's
not. And what I think rational or
radical acceptance is is a conscious
decision to stop spinning the story.
Stop putting a PR spin on it. Um, and
it's not cold. It's not disconnected. I
think it's a very honest and present
thing that you can do because what
you're essentially doing is stepping
back like you're actually p pulling your
energy back from the situation and
saying let me look at this for what it
is not what I want it to be not what I
wish it could become not who they are
when things are good but what is
actually happening right now and that's
radical acceptance um it's not saying
this is okay it's just saying this is
and I think you get two very powerful
things once you start doing that. One,
you get clarity, like real clarity, the
kind that's very impossible to access
when you're still bargaining,
rationalizing, hoping that they'll
change because when you stop editing the
story, you start seeing the truth and
not the version that you've been trying
to emotionally manage. Um, and then I
think the other thing it does, it
creates distance. Not physically at
first, but psychologically, mentally.
You stop participating in the emotional
chaos. you stop reacting and you start
observing and that starts weakening that
trauma bond because when you stop
responding to the highs and lows and
instead you go this is a pattern and I
see it now that's like the definition to
me of getting your power back and that's
why I think radical acceptance is like
the precursor to emotional detachment
and obvious I think the precursor to
leaving the relationship too is you
can't detach if you're still hoping you
can't ray rock if you're still
emotionally invested in their potential.
So radical acceptance gives you this
neutrality and it puts you in the
observer seat and it lets you say, you
know, this is worse than I thought or
this is not going to change. So I think
you're in something right now where your
mind feels so tangled, your heart feels
so confused. Start there, not with a big
decision, not with a breakup, but just
with saying this is what it is, right?
And I think the concept you just talked
about previously that ties in with
radical acceptance because if you could
say well to treat yourself the way you
would someone you really cared about and
say if the same thing was happening to
your best friend or your sister, what
would you say to them in that situation?
How would you label their behavior if it
was happening to them? And I think that
could really help with radical
acceptance for people. 100%. I I
completely agree with that. It's like
when you're so deep into a situation
like you're saying, it's so hard to see
it for what it is. But when you step out
of it, that's why people like look back
at their relationship and they're like,
"Oh my god, like why did I not see this
or why did I not notice the red flags
sooner?" You couldn't. You were so deep
into it and you still love this person
and you wanted to believe that things
were were going to get better. I think
that's that's why the the brain is such
a beautiful but such a tricky thing
because our brain doesn't want us to
suffer. So our brain our brain will make
rationalizations to to help us survive.
Um but it also can keep us in states of
manipulation and states of abuse. So
that's that's why I love radical
acceptance and I think I don't think it
gets talked about a lot because I think
there's a lot of like miscommunication,
misconception around it and people maybe
thinking that it's just like oh yeah,
you're going to accept the behavior. I
think maybe radical acceptance isn't the
best word for it. It's like
radical I don't know. I'll noodle on
that one. I think radical acceptance
does not mean tolerating does not mean
tolerating of disrespect or poor
treatment. Radical acceptance to me
would mean just fully acknowledging it
is what it is. Yes. That doesn't mean
you need to continue tolerating it and
being involved with it, but it first
comes down to acknowledging what exactly
is going on. And I think that's where
radical acceptance would help someone.
Yes. And it's it's the first step to
many steps. I think if you know if
whenever somebody is in something very
deeply abusive I always tell them okay
like let's let's try to go to a point
where you see it for what it is and not
for what you want it to be right and now
you coach people now too what do you
hear people struggling with the most
that what do you hear people getting
caught up on that is such a great
question I think a lot of the times it's
um why did this happened to me? Why me?
Why somebody who gave them everything,
who was such a great partner to them?
And I think that's a really I think
that's a really vicious cycle to be
stuck in sometimes because it puts the
onus on us and not necessarily on their
actions and it can keep the victim in
this cycle where they're having to
continue to explain themselves and to
continue to explain why they left. when
in reality, regardless of how perfect
you were, regardless of, you know, how
much of a better partner, wife, whatever
you could have been to this
person, they were going to treat you the
exact same way. It's literally like
rinse and repeat. Whoever the supply was
at the time is who's going to get that
side of them? And I think that's
something that I hear a lot. I think
another thing that I hear a lot is can
they change? Um, and from what I've
seen, it's it's it's a difficult
question to answer because you never
want to say, "No, nobody can change.
They're never going to change. 0% chance
that this person is going to get
better." But I think for somebody like a
narcissist specifically to want to get
help, it takes a lot of self-awareness
and it takes a lot of accountability to
even get to that point where they want
to change. And unfortunately, like
that's the hallmark of the personality
disorder is that lack of accountability
and that lack of self-awareness. And you
know, maybe you maybe they're aware of
how they're hurting people, but they
don't really care to change it because
it really benefits them. Um, so being in
a relationship like with somebody like
that, it's they don't love you for who
you are, they love you for what you can
do for them. Um, so when people ask me,
can they change? I say, "Yeah, not
really." Um because it takes that level
of accountability that they don't really
possess in the first place. Um so it's
it's kind of freeing to hear that to
know that no, no, no, there's there's
not a lot of there's not a lot of change
that can happen there. Um because then
you kind of take the the shame off of
you not being enough and it's really
just their own thing and that's how
they're going to operate through life,
right? And I think regardless of what
they say, what the toxic or narcissistic
person says, you got to trust their
actions. Their actions are going to
speak the loudest of all. They might say
all sorts of things. Some may even say
they're sorry or they'll do anything to
try to get you back in a hoover. But the
the actions will speak the loudest. And
I think it's also important to remember
that there are different levels of
severity and there's different types of
narcissists, too. But regardless of
that, if someone could never admit when
they're wrong, they could never admit
there's even an issue. I would be very
hesitant to believe there was ever any
change. And yeah, I think also what you
reminded me of too is people look at
relationships that their ex get into and
from the outside, oh yeah, they can
appear fine from the outside on social
media. Oh, he's been with this person or
she's been with this person for years.
Does that mean that they're treating
their new partner better than they
treated me? And to which I would say to
them, you have no idea what's really
going on behind closed doors there.
Because when both people are in it, the
person who's being mistreated, they
don't want people to think they're being
mistreated. A lot of times they don't
want people to think that until they're
out. But when they're in it, most of the
time they're going to defend them and
they're going to act like they're in the
happiest relationship. And usually those
are the relationships that are covering
up for something. The ones that are like
every other day, I love my partner so
much. It's like, are you sure? Is there
something going on? Right? Because it's
like if you are so happy, you don't need
to scream about it and you don't need to
make a performance of it. And I think
that's something that I hear a lot too
is like watching them a narcissist move
on or their ex move on. They do it
quickly, they do it loudly and they look
so happy, but they'll say, "Oh, they
seem so happy with this new person." And
that's the key word is seem. Because
what's actually happening beneath the
surface is that it's a rerun. They don't
build new relationships. They recycle
that performance. It's the same love
bombing, same over-the-top charm, same
like fast track of connection. Um, and
if they seem like they're suddenly
healed, it's because that new supply
hasn't seen the full script yet. Um, and
it's it's a lot about image management
because I think with um with a
narcissist specifically, it's not just
about ego, it's about a lot of like
fragility and like deep insecurity
that's underneath that ego. And they
tend to build their identity around
being right, around being admired,
around being in control. And confronting
their flaws feels like an annihilation
of who they are. So most narcissists
don't change. They just adapt to a new
situation. They just shapeshift, say
what you want to hear, throw you little
crumbs to buy time. Um, and I think
that's where so many people get caught
because that change might looks re might
look real, but the patterns are going to
repeat and they might get better at
hiding it, but they usually don't get
better at actually healing it. And I
think a good one to remember is their
hyper sensitivity to criticism and
perceived criticism. that causes a lot
of the chaos that if they feel they've
been attacked because they perceive
disagreements as attacks a lot of times
or being corrected as an attack, then
see how they act in those moments.
That's going to be very telling. Oh,
yeah. That is core narcissistic
behavior. And it's it's not random. It's
it is very short. It's unpredictable.
And I think what most people don't get
is that narcissists aren't very
confident, right? They they crave praise
because they have that very fragile
sense of self underneath, but their
entire identity is held together by how
they're perceived and not who they
actually are. So when you do offer
feedback like that, constructive even,
it feels like a personal attack because
to them it doesn't mean I want to work
on this with you. It means I see who you
are behind this mask. And then the
defense mechanisms kick in, the
deflection, your overreacting, the
projection, you're the one with the
issue, the rage, the withdrawal, and
what starts as, you know, you wanting to
get clarity or you wanting to tell them
how their actions hurt you, it turns
into a storm. And that's that's the trap
because feel like normal I don't want to
say normal but people who aren't
narcissistic want connection but people
like that who are abusive who are
manipulative really just want compliance.
compliance.
That's a big one. Do you know Dr. George
Simon? I do. Yes. So he was telling me
that the story of narcissists right he
fel he falls in love with his image and
when someone conflicts that they have
this image that they want admired that
they want praised and if someone does
the opposite criticizes or corrects them
they really don't like that uh
discongruency I'm not even sure if
that's a word or inongruency that's the
word so they really get upset about that
and I think that's one of the biggest
things. Just telling them no, seeing how
they act where they don't get their way
or how they treat people that can do
nothing for them. Those are usually the
clues of something that's going on. Oh,
it's a huge red flag. If you try to set
a boundary with somebody or if you try
to say no to somebody and they blow up
out of it, like that is that is a
massive red flag. And to them, like
there's no such thing as boundaries.
Boundaries equal betrayal. boundaries
equal defiance. And I think if you're in
a relationship with somebody like that,
it's really important to to like peel
back the curtain a little bit and think
and ask yourself like why why are they
having such a visceral re reaction to
somebody that to something that seems so
normal to me and talking about my
feelings and talking about, you know,
wanting to find some sort of common
ground. And I think um there's a lot of
emotional conditioning that happens in a
relationship like that. So, it's
important to to have boundaries from the
be from the beginning. And it it's it's
hard to do that for sure. But I think
it's it's practice makes perfect. And
the more you do it, the easier it gets.
And you reminded me there's a lot of
people who are saying the narcissist in
my life, they tried to weaponize their
boundaries and they're trying to
withhold my kids or do something. And I
said, that's not really a boundary then.
That's more of a punishment. If they're
doing something to hurt you, that's not
a boundary. Oh yeah. If that's their
intention, it's to punish, manipulate,
or to control you. That's not the same
as a boundary. I agree. Boundaries to me
are about like safety, honesty, and like
mutual respect, but I I agree. And
narcissists don't really use boundaries
for those reasons. They use them for
control, right? And they they weaponize
that healing language. um like therapy
talks, self-help phrases, and you know,
I my ex used to say to me like, I need
to protect my energy, so I'm going to
block you or um I'm setting a boundary
right now, so you're not allowed to
question me. Which is like, okay, I
don't think that's the I don't think
that's the point of setting a boundary.
And if it's one-sided like that, like
that's that's not a boundary. That's
like emotional dominance or whatever.
Slick that's slippery. A lot of people
they comment in the comment section,
"But the narcissist in my life did this,
they did that. They weaponized this
boundary." No, that's not what a
boundary is supposed to be. Boundaries
something to protect themselves. If
they're doing it to hurt you, now that's
control. Now that's a punishment.
Similar to a silent treatment or
alienating kids from someone, that's
punishing. That's not the same.
Completely agree. I think a true
boundary is it's clearly communicated.
There is it's respectful on both sides.
It's open to discussion where there
where trust exists and I think it's
rooted in like personal responsibility,
not punishment. Whereas a weaponized
boundary is super rigid. It's a shutdown
tactic. It's delivered with some sort of
like superiority or emotional
withdrawal. And I think it's often
framed as self-care, but it's about
control and
weaponizing. Yeah. Weaponizing against
them. Right now, my next question for
you, this is going to be a trickier one,
but it's about confusion. What do you
think the confusion is for people that
don't understand narcissism? And what do
you think the confusion is for the
people who have been victims of
narcissists? What do you think they need
clearing up? And what do you think the
people that don't understand it com at
all? What do they need clearing up?
That's such a great question. I think to
people who are watching from the
outside, um, friends, family, even
therapists, you know, who will sell tell
you, why don't you just leave or are you
sure it's abuse, you know, or have you
tried talking to them about how you feel?
feel?
Um, if you're confused by somebody who
keeps going back to a relationship that
seems obviously toxic from the outside,
just know that it's not weakness, it's
not drama. Because narcissistic abuse
doesn't often start with chaos. It
starts with charm. It starts with
intensity, with somebody who mirrors
everything that you ever wanted and
reflects it back to you like it's a
dream. And very very very slowly over
months the dream starts to turn. At
least for me. It might be quicker for
some people, slower for others. But you
start getting blame blamed for things
that you didn't do. You start explaining
yourself constantly. You start doubting
your own tone, your memory, your
reactions, told that you're too
emotional, you're too cold, too selfish,
too this, to that. And every fight
becomes your fault. Every boundary
becomes a betrayal. And every time you
try to leave, they'll change just enough
to pull you back in. And they will say
just the right thing to make you feel
like, okay, maybe there is some some
hope here. Um, but it's it's so covert
and it's a system that's designed to
keep the other person confused. So when
people ask, you know, why didn't you
just leave? I want you to know that in
their head they tried leaving a thousand
times but that cycle of gaslighting of
guilt fear kept pulling them back in. So
it's not about logic at the end of the
day. It was about survival. So if you
love somebody that's in a relationship
like this, don't shame them. Don't rush
them. Don't say I told you so when it
ends, be there for them. Tell them that
I believe you. I see what's happening
right now and I'm here for you for
whenever you do want to talk about it
because I think that one safe voice in
their head cuts through the
confusion. Um, so I think that's what I
would say to somebody who is confused
about why you would stay in a
narcissistic relationship. Okay. And I
think the thing that would be poisoned
for someone who's in a trauma bond are
some of the things that would be more
appropriate to say if someone's going
through a rough patch in a relationship
and there's and really recognizing the
difference between a rough patch versus
abuse, disrespect, etc. And if you try
to apply the lessons that you would in a
quote unquote rough patch, maybe there's
a health consequence or financial
hardship or something. And if you try to
apply that lesson to a trauma bond,
that's going to be poison because you
don't need that lesson. That's the wrong
lesson to be pulling. And really the
lesson is radical acceptance. That's the
lesson to be pulling the rad like truly
acknowledging what's going on. That's
the appropriate thing to be taking from it.
it.
Oh, 100%. And I think for the ones that
are in the abusive relationship, like
you're not crazy, you're not dramatic,
you're not weak, you're in something
that's designed to confuse you. And I
think narcissistic abuse or any sort of
emotional physical abuse doesn't always
show up as screaming. You know, they'll
say, "I love you." with one hand and
they'll, you know, hurt you with the
other. And it rewrites your memory. It
um makes you apologize for being heard
and it makes you question your worth.
And I think if you feel like you have to
shrink to be loved, that was a big one
for me. Um if you're constantly stuck
between I want to leave or maybe I'm the
problem, you're not alone. It's probably
some sort of some sort of trauma bond
or something that's actually deeply
hurting you. You don't need another
apology. You don't need to find the
perfect words that, you know, finally
make them get how you're feeling. Um,
you're living it and you're going to
survive it. You don't need permission to
want peace and you don't need it to hit
that rock bottom for you to get that
approval to walk away. And I think if
there's a voice inside of you that's
whispering that this isn't love, that's
you. And that's your clarity trying to
pull you back home. H I think another
good thing that you said was just if you
notice yourself pretending if you're
pretending to be someone that you don't
think you are to please this person
that's a big one to pay attention to and
I think that's something that if you
really get quiet for a second and get
grounded yeah people would notice maybe
okay I am trying to put on this mask to
please this person and and it also might
be just to not be abused too right
that's also part of it as well So, I
don't want to say people are only doing
it to please them. It's like, no, it's
to avoid abuse. It's to avoid
disrespect, too. But just the fact that
you're doing it for either reason is the
problem. Exactly. That's that's very
very well said. And it's it's a
confusing space to be in. And I don't
expect anybody to understand it if they
haven't been in it. But it's I think
there should be a little bit less of a
why are you still in this and more of a
why are they doing this or you know why
why are they like this and there's so
much of a of a focus on the victim and
why they didn't walk away and less of a
focus on what are the patterns that this
person is showing them that could have
been you know could have hopefully been
avoided one day and that's kind of why I
started my channel too is like these
little little patterns that we start
seeing end up being the big red flags
that we look back on. We say, "Had I
been able to spot this in the beginning,
maybe I wouldn't have gone further down
the line with this person." And it's
people will say, "Oh, it's petty. You're
overthinking or you're looking too much
into the the fine details." But like,
I'm not overthinking. I'm just thinking.
Right. Right. And I think to the people
who don't understand the relationships
period, yeah, for them to truly know,
okay, this person like everything
they're going to do is going to be about
power, control, managing their image,
narcissistic supply, and avoiding
accountability. And truly though, that
is everything that they're going to do
is going to be fitting into that. And I
think that's what people don't
understand. They don't truly understand
how petty and how ridiculous and how
childish they can go. And when they
don't understand that, then they're
going to be saying advice that's just
not as helpful. And I think I would also
tell to tell them, hey, when that that
person has been lovebombed in the
beginning, and there's really a great
feeling, especially if they get to hit
those right buttons, yeah, that's a
great feeling. People are going to want
to re return to that a lot of times.
That good feeling. People might want to
chase that. And I think that's another
good thing for the people on the outside
to know, too. 100%. And you're human,
you know, at the end of the day. Like,
if you're getting mad at yourself for
wanting to give somebody a chance and
wanting to be empathetic, like I don't
want anybody to lose that part of
themselves. I just want you to stop
giving it to the people that don't
deserve it. Right. And that was the
thing. I when I was listening to your
podcast the other day with [ __ ] is a
bad word podcast. People should check
that out. I'll be making a guest
appearance on there as well. But you had
said that your parents actually were
able to see through your ex's behavior.
And I thought that was pretty good that
they had your back about that and they
knew like they knew when you were going
to call them because they knew things
were going off the rails. It was
important that you had people in your
corner there, not the people that are
going to be the opposite that some
people's families defend the abuser and
they become flying monkeys for them
almost. But thankfully for you, that
wasn't your story. And thank goodness
for that. I mean, it had been it had
been years of abuse up until that point
and they they saw it, you know, four or
five years later into the relationship.
But once they saw it, it's like you
can't unsee that kind of thing,
especially when it's your child, it's
your baby girl, and having them in my
corner made this process so much easier
for me. I mean, I wouldn't say it was
easy, but it was it took a lot of it
took a whole lot of burden off of me
because I felt like at the end of the
day, like I'm going to be loved by my
family and I don't need whatever version
of love this person is trying to give me
because it's not like comparing it to
like how my parents treat me like and
how I want my partner to treat me. And
that's what I ask myself all the time
like especially as I'm like starting to
date now. It's
um does this behavior align with who I
see as my partner in the future? And if
it's not a [ __ ] yes, it's a no. Oh, you
say that too. It's one of my favorite
things. I love it. I love And I'm like,
it's so true, right? like especially
with somebody that you're going to have
as like your your other half or you
know, whatever you want to call them,
your your life partner, but
like it's those little questions that
really save you from getting into the
the wrong relationships or, you know,
not making the right decisions. So, I'm
I'm all about the the hell yeses, [ __ ]
yeses, I should say. It's not a hell
yeah, it's a [ __ ] no. That's it. But I
think also because it is it is more
clear when you put it through that lens.
Like once you see and feel what a good
relationship is like or just a good
connection. It doesn't even have to be a
relationship that works long term, but
just a good connection versus one that's
on unstable ground or you're not quite
sure about or there's abuse. That's
going to be night and day. Like there is
no, you can't even compare the two
because it's just so much different.
Exactly. Exactly. And it's like um
having having that as a comparison, it
really it really builds a foundation for
your next relationships. Like you are
never going to let yourself slip back
into accepting that kind of behavior. Um
and yeah, there's there's so much hope
and there's more people out there that
are good and not abusive than the other
way around. And I I genuinely believe
that. And I think sometimes we feel
ourselves attracted to people or have
this magnetic pull to people who might
not be good for us. But I think once
you've once you've had a taste of the
other the other side, it's so much
easier for you to to tell kind of right
away, okay, this is not going to work
for me and this is not going to this is
not going to be good, right? I mean, and
so that could be the librance or the
twin flames or fill in the blank with
whatever people say. And I think some of
it's just a maturity thing, too. As
people get older, they get a little
wiser hopefully and they learn from
their mistakes and they learn from just
life and they don't make the same
mistakes they did when they were younger.
younger.
100%. I'm glad you brought up the
lirance because that's something that
I've been thinking a lot about too, like
kind of that intensive obsessive
emotional attachment to somebody. And I think
think
it's you have to interrupt that fantasy sometimes and remind yourself what is
sometimes and remind yourself what is and what am I wanting this to be? And
and what am I wanting this to be? And once you get to that that point where
once you get to that that point where you're not romanticizing everything and
you're not romanticizing everything and you're not just seeing the potential of
you're not just seeing the potential of everything, the obsession gets quieter
everything, the obsession gets quieter and that fog lifts and you realize that
and that fog lifts and you realize that it wasn't about them at all. It was kind
it wasn't about them at all. It was kind of you were searching for rescue in
of you were searching for rescue in somebody that was emotionally available
somebody that was emotionally available and um you have to start meeting the
and um you have to start meeting the parts of yourself that were neglected
parts of yourself that were neglected before they showed up. I think another
before they showed up. I think another important question to ask ourselves is
important question to ask ourselves is do we like who we're becoming with this
do we like who we're becoming with this person? Do we like the kind of person
person? Do we like the kind of person that we are when we're with this person?
that we are when we're with this person? I think that's a very powerful question
I think that's a very powerful question to ask too. I completely agree. It's
to ask too. I completely agree. It's like, is the version of myself that is
like, is the version of myself that is in this relationship the version that I
in this relationship the version that I want to be in the future? Because being
want to be in the future? Because being in a relationship that's toxic and
in a relationship that's toxic and abusive like that, it really does change
abusive like that, it really does change you into somebody else. You almost start
you into somebody else. You almost start mirroring that person because they've
mirroring that person because they've they've made you feel like the biggest
they've made you feel like the biggest piece of [ __ ] for so long that you're
piece of [ __ ] for so long that you're like, "Oh, wait. Maybe I am." And you
like, "Oh, wait. Maybe I am." And you kind of start internalizing it
kind of start internalizing it sometimes. And I think that's where that
sometimes. And I think that's where that idea of reactive abuse comes to and
idea of reactive abuse comes to and people are like, "Oh, I'm I must be the
people are like, "Oh, I'm I must be the abuser because, you know, I said
abuser because, you know, I said something to them in retaliation or I
something to them in retaliation or I pushed them." And I think it's very
pushed them." And I think it's very different. Of course, everybody should
different. Of course, everybody should be held accountable for however they
be held accountable for however they react in certain situations, but I think
react in certain situations, but I think that it's not equal footing at all. You
that it's not equal footing at all. You know, I was listening to a couple people
know, I was listening to a couple people talk today about reactive abuse. Dr.
talk today about reactive abuse. Dr. Coach Yella, she calls it self-defense.
Coach Yella, she calls it self-defense. And then Mark Vicente, he just made a
And then Mark Vicente, he just made a real today about it and he had said, "I
real today about it and he had said, "I hate that term because he said,"Wh
hate that term because he said,"Wh shouldn't it be called a reaction to
shouldn't it be called a reaction to abuse as opposed to reactive?" The way
abuse as opposed to reactive?" The way they phrase it, I don't know how they
they phrase it, I don't know how they came up with the phrase that way, like
came up with the phrase that way, like reactive abuse. But I guess they're
reactive abuse. But I guess they're trying to make it so that the person who
trying to make it so that the person who is doing the abuse, they're trying to
is doing the abuse, they're trying to say their behavior, I guess. But it the
say their behavior, I guess. But it the reaction to abuse is what they're
reaction to abuse is what they're talking about.
talking about. Absolutely. I think it that term doesn't
Absolutely. I think it that term doesn't take into account all of the nuance and
take into account all of the nuance and the context around it, right? Because if
the context around it, right? Because if somebody's poking and poking and poking
somebody's poking and poking and poking and poking, pushing all of your buttons,
and poking, pushing all of your buttons, cornering you, like you're going to
cornering you, like you're going to snap. You're going to like you're human,
snap. You're going to like you're human, right? And it's your your nervous system
right? And it's your your nervous system is responding by saying, "Listen, I've
is responding by saying, "Listen, I've tried talking to you. I've tried, you
tried talking to you. I've tried, you know, doing things in a calm way, and
know, doing things in a calm way, and the only way that you're able to
the only way that you're able to understand what I'm going through is
understand what I'm going through is when I explode at you." So, it's like a
when I explode at you." So, it's like a survival technique that you start using.
survival technique that you start using. It's, you know, the moment that your
It's, you know, the moment that your body says enough, I'm not holding this
body says enough, I'm not holding this in anymore. And it's damaging because
in anymore. And it's damaging because now the abuser can use that against you,
now the abuser can use that against you, right? The moment that you scream that,
right? The moment that you scream that, you know, you rage, text them or
you know, you rage, text them or whatever. And it's it's deeply
whatever. And it's it's deeply manipulative manipulative and it can
manipulative manipulative and it can keep you stuck in shame. But I don't
keep you stuck in shame. But I don't think that reactive abuse is a
think that reactive abuse is a systematic type of abuse. It's a trauma
systematic type of abuse. It's a trauma response, right? It's your body crying
response, right? It's your body crying out for help. And for anybody who's gone
out for help. And for anybody who's gone through that, like you were pushed to a
through that, like you were pushed to a place that you were never supposed to be
place that you were never supposed to be in. And that's not who you are. It's who
in. And that's not who you are. It's who you became in this presence of chronic
you became in this presence of chronic danger.
danger. And I would stress to those people,
And I would stress to those people, you're just human. It's a human response
you're just human. It's a human response if you're going to be gas lit and
if you're going to be gas lit and tortured. Yeah. You might have an
tortured. Yeah. You might have an emotional reaction at some point, and
emotional reaction at some point, and that's just being human. And that's why
that's just being human. And that's why I hate it when people say things like,
I hate it when people say things like, "No one can make you feel anything."
"No one can make you feel anything." Because I know a lot of abusers, they
Because I know a lot of abusers, they love that because, "Oh, I can't make you
love that because, "Oh, I can't make you feel anything." I noticed the people who
feel anything." I noticed the people who are narcissistic, they love that because
are narcissistic, they love that because it absolves them. Oh, I can't make you
it absolves them. Oh, I can't make you feel anything. But it's like, no, people
feel anything. But it's like, no, people are human. I mean, if you get punched,
are human. I mean, if you get punched, are you going to bruise? Are you going
are you going to bruise? Are you going to feel pain? So, why is it so different
to feel pain? So, why is it so different with someone's words? Like, if you're in
with someone's words? Like, if you're in the spiritual realm, yeah, words are
the spiritual realm, yeah, words are powerful. Words are absolutely powerful.
powerful. Words are absolutely powerful. how we talk to ourselves is powerful
how we talk to ourselves is powerful just as if a physical action is
just as if a physical action is powerful. So, I've never bought that.
powerful. So, I've never bought that. It's always been a pet peeve of mine
It's always been a pet peeve of mine that no one can make you feel anything.
that no one can make you feel anything. It can be something to strive for, but
It can be something to strive for, but it's not realistic per se.
it's not realistic per se. Things are going to happen. And it
Things are going to happen. And it completely erases the idea of like the
completely erases the idea of like the root cause. Like you're completely
root cause. Like you're completely separate, you have to separate the
separate, you have to separate the reaction from the root and look at why
reaction from the root and look at why this happened and not just how you did
this happened and not just how you did it, right? because I think that's that's
it, right? because I think that's that's what they they want you to feel. They
what they they want you to feel. They want you to feel like you're the
want you to feel like you're the manipulator, that you're the narcissist.
manipulator, that you're the narcissist. And yeah, I think we need to work on
And yeah, I think we need to work on renaming that term and making it a
renaming that term and making it a little bit more palatable, I would say.
little bit more palatable, I would say. So, now the last thing I want to ask
So, now the last thing I want to ask you, masculine containment versus
you, masculine containment versus control, what would you say? What do you
control, what would you say? What do you think about those two things? Oo, that
think about those two things? Oo, that that's that's a really interesting
that's that's a really interesting that's a really interesting question.
that's a really interesting question. And I've been I've been noodling on that
And I've been I've been noodling on that one. I think it's I think it's something
one. I think it's I think it's something that gets misunderstood a lot in
that gets misunderstood a lot in like this space, right? I would say that
like this space, right? I would say that masculine containment is not control.
masculine containment is not control. And if you've experienced abuse,
And if you've experienced abuse, especially emotional abuse, narcissistic
especially emotional abuse, narcissistic abuse, it's easy to conflate the two
abuse, it's easy to conflate the two because they can look very similar at
because they can look very similar at first. Like with control, they'll say,
first. Like with control, they'll say, "Don't wear that. Why didn't you text me
"Don't wear that. Why didn't you text me back? Don't talk to him. Um, I'm just
back? Don't talk to him. Um, I'm just protecting you. And really, it's all
protecting you. And really, it's all about the domination, the ownership, the
about the domination, the ownership, the fear. Um, and it uses power to make you
fear. Um, and it uses power to make you feel small so that you kind of shrink to
feel small so that you kind of shrink to keep the peace. And it makes you feel
keep the peace. And it makes you feel responsible for their emotions. Whereas
responsible for their emotions. Whereas masculine containment is, you know, it's
masculine containment is, you know, it's about emotional safety. It's that
about emotional safety. It's that masculinity that makes you feel
masculinity that makes you feel protected, present, grounded. They'll
protected, present, grounded. They'll say like, you know, I've got you. Um,
say like, you know, I've got you. Um, I'm not going to I'm not going to try to
I'm not going to I'm not going to try to fix you, but I'm not going to let you
fix you, but I'm not going to let you fall alone. You know, you're safe here.
fall alone. You know, you're safe here. Um, I think it makes it makes room for
Um, I think it makes it makes room for your full expression without you having
your full expression without you having to to shrink or silence yourself. And it
to to shrink or silence yourself. And it doesn't restrict you, but it holds you.
doesn't restrict you, but it holds you. So, I think that control is rooted in
So, I think that control is rooted in insecurity, whereas containment is
insecurity, whereas containment is rooted in self-regulation. So, a
rooted in self-regulation. So, a controlling man is reactive, but a man
controlling man is reactive, but a man who provides that masculine containment
who provides that masculine containment is regulated. He creates this calm space
is regulated. He creates this calm space without silencing you um and he's
without silencing you um and he's holding space for you like in a way that
holding space for you like in a way that somebody who's controlling wouldn't
somebody who's controlling wouldn't because they're just managing their own
because they're just managing their own comfort and not necessarily yours. So, I
comfort and not necessarily yours. So, I think um there's that idea of peace,
think um there's that idea of peace, right? Control feels like pressure, but
right? Control feels like pressure, but containment feels like peace.
containment feels like peace. And we could probably do a whole show
And we could probably do a whole show just on that topic, too. That part's
just on that topic, too. That part's super interesting to me. But any other
super interesting to me. But any other closing thoughts you have for us here? I
closing thoughts you have for us here? I just want to say that you're you're
just want to say that you're you're doing amazing work, Jared. Thank you. I
doing amazing work, Jared. Thank you. I you're you're one of the OGs in the
you're you're one of the OGs in the space and I have a lot of respect for
space and I have a lot of respect for you and the way that you talk about the
you and the way that you talk about the topics and you say that you have, you
topics and you say that you have, you know, you're more blunt, aggressive, but
know, you're more blunt, aggressive, but I don't think so. I think that I think
I don't think so. I think that I think that you bring uh honesty to the space
that you bring uh honesty to the space and I think you come from a perspective
and I think you come from a perspective where there's no shame around it and
where there's no shame around it and it's not a a victim mentality which I
it's not a a victim mentality which I know it's it's easy to slip into that
know it's it's easy to slip into that sometimes and that's not to say that
sometimes and that's not to say that we're the problem but I think you you
we're the problem but I think you you advocate for the ownership of you know
advocate for the ownership of you know your own life and your own actions and
your own life and your own actions and giving people
giving people that that strength strength to to know
that that strength strength to to know that hey like I can actually I can
that hey like I can actually I can actually change the course of this and I
actually change the course of this and I can control how the rest of my life
can control how the rest of my life unfolds. So I just want to thank you for
unfolds. So I just want to thank you for being a safe space and to talking to us
being a safe space and to talking to us like like humans and not like um and not
like like humans and not like um and not babying us. I appreciate that. Oh, I
babying us. I appreciate that. Oh, I really appreciate you saying that. And I
really appreciate you saying that. And I think I try to stress it's not blaming
think I try to stress it's not blaming to do that. I'm not saying it's anyone's
to do that. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault that this has happened to them.
fault that this has happened to them. I'm not excusing the abusive person's
I'm not excusing the abusive person's behavior. I just try to tell people what
behavior. I just try to tell people what can you do differently because that's
can you do differently because that's all you have control over is what can
all you have control over is what can you do differently in the future. It's
you do differently in the future. It's not your fault, but what what can you
not your fault, but what what can you learn? What can you do differently?
learn? What can you do differently? 100%. If you get out of any
100%. If you get out of any relationship, good, bad, ugly, pretty,
relationship, good, bad, ugly, pretty, and you don't learn anything about
and you don't learn anything about yourself, that is that is a waste.
yourself, that is that is a waste. Right. And where can people find you?
Right. And where can people find you? All right. You can find me on Tik Tok,
All right. You can find me on Tik Tok, Beyond the Bruise. And then Instagram is
Beyond the Bruise. And then Instagram is Beyondthe. Bruise. And I also have a
Beyondthe. Bruise. And I also have a YouTube Beyond the Bruise. I got to
YouTube Beyond the Bruise. I got to judge that up a little bit. I got to
judge that up a little bit. I got to make you guys some more long form
make you guys some more long form content, but um Instagram and Tik Tok
content, but um Instagram and Tik Tok are my my bread and butters right now.
are my my bread and butters right now. All right. We'll be looking forward to
All right. We'll be looking forward to your new YouTube content, too. Thank you
your new YouTube content, too. Thank you so much, Jared. It was a pleasure and an
so much, Jared. It was a pleasure and an honor. Oh, it was a pleasure having you
honor. Oh, it was a pleasure having you on here as well. And thanks for the kind
on here as well. And thanks for the kind words, too. Thank you.
Klicke auf einen beliebigen Text oder Zeitstempel, um direkt zu dieser Stelle im Video zu springen
Teilen:
Die meisten Transkripte sind in unter 5 Sekunden bereit
Mit einem Klick kopieren125+ SprachenInhalt durchsuchenZu Zeitstempeln springen
YouTube-URL einfügen
Gib den Link eines beliebigen YouTube-Videos ein und erhalte das vollständige Transkript
Transkript-Extraktionsformular
Die meisten Transkripte sind in unter 5 Sekunden bereit
Unsere Chrome-Erweiterung installieren
Transkripte abrufen, ohne YouTube zu verlassen. Installiere unsere Chrome-Erweiterung und greife mit einem Klick direkt auf der Wiedergabeseite auf das Transkript jedes Videos zu.
Chrome-Erweiterung