The discussion highlights the transformative potential of technology, particularly AI, in revolutionizing education to address global challenges and empower individuals, emphasizing personalized learning and equitable access.
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That's what it offers, just huge scale.
So you're talking about billions of
people's lives being changed.
Julia, thanks so much for joining me today.
You've got the Wellcome Trust
where you're doing amazing things around scientific advancement,
your work in education and women's empowerment.
And still it seems like you have enough energy to do even more.
So maybe you can just have, what's driving you at this stage of life?
I should probably say you didn't see me before I had a cup of coffee this morning.
That's possibly a bit of the explanation for the energy, but, you know, it doesn't
matter what you've done in the past, you've got to keep learning.
The Wellcome Trust I get to learn from the scientists,
the Global Institute for Women's Leadership,
I get to learn from the young Researchers. The women and girls in CAMFED
are just a source of joy and energy and ideas, and that really nurtures me
and then gives me a new sense of energy and resolve that
while so much is changing, we've got to also be making sure
that these new ways of working, new technologies are being applied
in a way that is lifting us all up together rather than dividing us more.
Oh, that was a mic drop moment.
Thank you.
You know, education was the original love.
You know, the sort of North Star that took me into public
policy, public advocacy, propelled me with enough energy
to ride the the lumps and bumps and to get into politics.
As Prime Minister, I pursued those policies as well.
But in my time post politics, I had to think through, well,
if you still care about education, which I still did,
what is it that you can do differently?
And so that took me first led to chairing the Global Partnership
for Education, which is still the major multilateral fund
that invests in school education in developing countries.
And it also took me to being patron of the Campaign
for Female Education, which is a role I still hold.
And that's about supporting girls education in Africa.
And then the really
powerful thing about the model is it keeps those girls together.
And on average, the alumni give back enough money
to the Campaign for Female Education to fund three more girls.
So it's a sort of exponential model for change.
Yeah.
So it's exciting to be involved in.
And they are really a force.
But I know you're philanthropically interested in education too, aren't you?
Yeah. And, actually quite similar.
So, my journey on education really to give back started in the year 2000.
I went back to the orphanage where my father was raised,
and I built a computer lab.
Yeah.
And, I got, I was fortunate enough my dad was still with me
that he could come.
He came with me and everyone was like, oh, this is not the United States.
You can't build a computer lab in two months.
Look, the electricity goes off regularly.
We don't have anyone to teach it.
And I just remember my dad, one of my fondest memories of my dad
was just in Arabic saying, don't discourage the girl.
Let her show you what she can do.
And what I found was, I went to go say thank you to my dad.
And instead I walked away with a completely different career trajectory.
I started a nonprofit with a former colleague and a friend.
And it was really about how do you work with local nonprofits
and under-resourced communities to help them develop the capacity
to bring education technology in their communities?
You had some amazing stats about
education and literacy.
Yeah, I mean, it's a tragedy that, you know, in our world today,
there are, you know, hundreds of millions of children
who don't get to go to school at all and hundreds of millions more
who only go for a very short time, you know, two or three years.
And then there's the problem of educational quality.
So in many parts of the world, kids might be attending,
but they're not learning.
And I think it is head spinning that,
you know, we have amazing opportunities.
I mean, you'd be much more at the frontier, in this than me.
And I think this is where, the challenge we have right now with AI
and the speed in which it's moving,
how are we making sure that they're also getting the skills?
We partnered with the Raspberry Pi Foundation to develop a program
called Experience AI, which is aimed at 11 to 14 year olds
to understand what AI is, how to use it responsibly.
We we tested it in underserved communities in the United Kingdom
because our belief was if we can develop it
with our local communities, then we can scale it.
But we need to target it at the right audience first.
But again, this isn't any one company or any one country.
I think we all owe it to
the fact that AI is going to develop at an extraordinary pace.
How do we think about changing the educational policies
and infrastructure, upskilling teachers and parents and
getting beyond the conversation of AI as a
homework answer and instead being an assistant
to help you explore your learning and the way that you like to learn.
Yes. Yeah.
And that kind of community education task,
you know, actually Google is very well placed to do that
because it's the place people turn for answers.
Yeah, I think we're at the very early stages now.
And as the AI gets more, factual and accurate
and we have an opportunity here to really do this, right.
And do it in collaboration with leaders worldwide.
One of the things I'm quite excited about is personalized learning.
Because I do think we can start from a young age all the way through career.
What does personalized learning mean to you?
I’m a reader.
I've always been a reader.
You know, when,
my sister and I were young and
we'd go to the public library once a week, we'd come back with swags of books.
And so if I'm trying to learn something new,
I will always want to read and I can get my information that way.
Whereas I know from watching my great nieces
and great nephew and they're much, much more experiential,
much more likely to, learn by,
you know, if you can 3D it and somehow build it.
Their minds work differently to mine and they will pick up something
very quickly like that.
I'll look at it. I'll still be bamboozled.
I'll have to go and read it.
And so it seems to me that
if you then look at a classroom of children
and you've got an idea about the skills and capacities
you want them to emerge from a period of learning with,
you could create the multiple or allow the students to create
the multiple pathways with the AI tutor that will get them there.
I think a lot about the journey we had earlier,
a decade ago around adaptive learning,
where when we were starting to introduce computers in the classrooms.
First of all, teachers were really scared and we had to remind them
that, like, the computers aren't magic, the teachers are.
But in order for the teacher to have the ability to engage with the class,
each of the students needed to have a bit more individualized attention.
So a lot of the adaptive learning, which is basically taking the same curriculum
and just letting people do it at their different pace.
And I'll never forget, I was in this one classroom
and this little boy's favorite subject was math.
And I was talking to the teacher about how engaged he was with the math game.
And, the teacher noted that actually, math is his weakest subject.
Oh.
And it was because it was in that form that you said,
in a game style, where he was doing basic numeracy that kept him engaged.
So I saw computers be brought into the classroom
in a way that it got kids engaged in the studying.
But, they were still on that same trajectory as everyone else.
And I think what AI can do, much like you said,
is give me the content I need in the style I need it.
And one of the things I'm really proud of that we've done at Google is we've done
a lot of collaborative work with academic institutions, different organizations
to really try to take the best of learning science and fine tune our models.
We're actually taking all of that work that has been done collaboratively
and infused that into Gemini, so that now we can bring those types
of learning, science and capabilities to the broad public, which is really
to be able to give more people more opportunity to reach their potential.
Yeah.
That must be very rewarding work, given your own personal journey
to be able to make that difference at such a mass scale.
And that's what it offers, just huge scale.
So you're talking about billions of people's lives being changed.
It is really extraordinary.
And we were building the legacy.
And I feel so fortunate,
so many times to just have had the opportunities
I've had, including this one today, speaking with you.
Thank you, Julia
Well, thank you for such a great conversation and amazing, given
we're really from very different places, but a lot in common when we talk about,
the values that have propelled us and the sort of life journey.
So a really delightful conversation.
Thank you for having it.
Thank you.
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