0:00 I think 22 beheadings I've seen. You
0:03 know, I I was stabbed in the line of
0:04 duty. I've been shot at in the line of
0:06 duty. Were any of those a result of your
0:10 investigations? This is nuts. I I used
0:12 to get new guys that came into the
0:13 kingdom. The executioner comes out. They
0:15 have a cop car there that reads over the
0:18 loudspeaker in the car would read the
0:21 decree. What whatever this guy did, she
0:24 was stoned. The boyfriend or the father
0:28 of the kid. um he was he was
0:33 beheaded. You know, it's ironic today,
0:36 you know, the king of Saudi Arabia today
0:40 uh at that time in 19 from 82 to 84 was
0:43 actually the governor of Riyad. Um his
0:46 older brothers uh Fad Khaled, I worked
0:50 for them when I was when I was there. Um
0:53 he was the governor of Riad, he would be
0:55 at the hospital all the time. Um, so
0:58 when you had my job, you
1:00 basically you you
1:04 ensured that the that the doctors, the
1:07 nurses, the staff, especially the
1:10 American staff, they were abiding by the
1:12 law and by the policies of the hospital
1:16 because there's a lot of corruption that
1:18 goes on. There's a lot of prostitution
1:20 that goes on. There's a lot of lot of
1:22 things that goes on in those areas. you
1:24 know, people come over and they go to
1:26 work there and they get in a lot of
1:28 [ __ ] trouble and uh and it was our
1:30 job to make sure we kept them out of
1:32 trouble, make sure that the hospital
1:35 didn't get embarrassed. Uh things like
1:38 that. It was an interesting time. It uh
1:42 I made some good money. I stayed about a
1:44 year and a half and then I went back
1:45 home.
1:48 In another interview, you mentioned
1:50 I think upwards of 22 beheadings and Oh,
1:54 no. I've seen tons. Yeah. What were they
1:58 getting beheaded for? Um, for the most
2:01 part, um, all homicides or rape?
2:05 Homicides or rape. Um,
2:08 uh, I think I've seen I used to know the
2:11 numbers. I think it's 22. I think 22
2:13 beheadings I've seen.
2:16 um a bunch of dismemberments, you know,
2:19 they take a guy's hand off. I saw one
2:22 stoning uh where they stoned a a young
2:25 girl to death uh that had a baby out of
2:28 wedlock with her cousin or something. Um
2:33 she was she was stoned the boyfriend or
2:37 the father of the kid um he was he was
2:41 beheaded. Um, and that's the way it's
2:44 done. And you were friends with the
2:46 executioner, correct? Well, I wasn't.
2:50 Was it called coworker? No, he Well, he
2:53 worked, you know, the king today,
2:55 Solomon. Um, he was the governor. Well,
2:58 the the executioner was his senior
3:01 bodyguard, right? One of his his detail
3:04 guys. So, I I knew him from the
3:07 hospital.
3:08 Um, you know, we were sort of friends,
3:11 you I knew him. I would, uh, you know,
3:14 it's weird. I would see him during the
3:17 week, uh, coming in and out and then on
3:20 [ __ ] Friday, you know, after the
3:22 afternoon mosque, uh, you know, at 1:00
3:25 in the afternoon, he'd be out in the
3:27 square whacking somebody. And I'm think
3:29 I'm thinking, nice guy. You know, two
3:33 days ago, we're having tea like at the
3:35 hospital. So, wow. Were any of those
3:39 executions that you witnessed? Were
3:41 those were any of those a result of your
3:44 investigations? No. No. No. No. They
3:50 um No. Mo mostly there were homicides
3:53 that happened uh in Riat or around um I
3:58 I remember and I can't I think this was
4:00 the first goround. Um because I was
4:04 there. I was actually in Saudi Arabia in
4:09 1979 when they took the um the uh
4:13 embassy in uh Iran and when they seized
4:17 Mecca in Saudi and uh and I remember
4:22 that I I don't think I witnessed but I
4:24 know it went on in in Daharan a lot.
4:26 They took all of
4:28 the all of the uh the intruders that
4:32 went into Mecca um that were involved in
4:34 that seizure. They took all of them.
4:36 They split them up all over the country
4:39 and they killed them all in one day.
4:41 Wow. Um you know, there were a bunch of
4:43 them. They put them in cities all over
4:44 the all over the country. It's pretty
4:47 pretty routine over there at that time.
4:50 Well, listen, you know, you know, people
4:53 say, you know, uh, you know, the death
4:55 sentence doesn't, um, you know, it it
4:58 has no impact on crime. I don't know. I
5:03 don't know. You know, you witness some
5:05 of this stuff that goes on over
5:07 there, you don't have an impact. Is that
5:09 Do they do that in uh, is it like a
5:11 public Oh, yeah. Everybody show up.
5:14 Well, it's it's listen, you the you go
5:16 to the main mosque in Riyad on a Friday
5:19 afternoon, everybody goes in to pray,
5:21 everybody comes out and you know when
5:24 you come out of the mosque, if they have
5:26 the square roped off, there's going to
5:28 be an execution and it's right after you
5:31 come out of the mosque. So, if you have
5:33 a thousand people in the mosque and they
5:34 all come out, they basically form a
5:37 circle in that square. They have a
5:39 black, you know, one of these. I used to
5:42 call it a black mariah. was a a black
5:44 minivan will pull up into the square.
5:48 Um, a couple officers takes the dude
5:50 out. Uh, stands him in the middle of the
5:53 square, puts him on his knees. The
5:55 executioner comes out. They have a cop
5:58 car there that reads over the
6:00 loudspeaker in the car would read the
6:03 decree, what whatever this guy did, and
6:06 then they do
6:08 them. That was it. And you know, it's
6:10 it's weird.
6:12 We've all, you
6:14 know, cops, people in the military, you,
6:18 you know, there's times you see death
6:19 and you, you know, you see the aftermath
6:21 of death.
6:23 Um, the first time I ever saw a
6:25 beheading, the first
6:28 one I actually, you're watching this and
6:31 when it happens in your head, you're
6:34 going, "All right, dude. That's that's
6:37 [ __ ] up."
6:39 like is that you know is that real? Like
6:42 your head can't comprehend like you know
6:45 and you're looking at it thinking [ __ ]
6:48 that's crazy you know and uh after a
6:52 while it just you know I used this is
6:55 this is nuts. I I used to get new guys
6:57 that came into the kingdom and on
7:00 Fridays you know Thursday and Fridays
7:02 was a holiday right? It was like our
7:03 Saturday and Sunday. Mhm. So on Sunday,
7:07 we would all go out on, well, it was
7:09 Friday, but we would all go out to the
7:12 intercon or we'd go somewhere for brunch
7:14 every Friday. Well, I'd get these new
7:17 guys and they'd go out, we'd have them
7:19 go out and grab something to eat, and
7:20 then we'd leave right around the time
7:23 they were doing the
7:24 execution. And these guys had no idea
7:27 where we're going. Oh [ __ ] So we would
7:28 take them to the mosque, put them right
7:30 up front, they'd puke
7:32 their they'd watch this and get sick of
7:35 the dog. But um it was uh it was crazy.
7:40 It was a different life. Yeah. Would you
7:42 say that's probably maybe the most
7:44 traumatic thing you've seen up to that
7:45 point in your life? Up to that point?
7:48 Yeah. Have you seen Have you seen a lot
7:51 working in the prison or being a a No, I
7:53 mean you see you see violence, you see
7:55 things as a cop, you know, you you see
7:58 stuff like that. Not not like that,
8:02 though. Yeah. Right. Normally, you see
8:04 the aftermath unless you're involved in
8:06 an incident, right? You're involved in
8:08 some you're shooting or stabbing, you
8:11 know? I I was stabbed in the line of
8:13 duty. I've been shot at in the line of
8:14 duty. Things like that. Um but you don't
8:18 see that. This is the intentional
8:21 execution of someone. Yeah.
8:24 Um it's different, you know. It's
8:26 different.
8:28 So you wrapped up your Saudi contract
8:31 and came home. Wrapped up my Saudi
8:34 contract. Uh 1984 I um came back. I
8:39 applied for a job with the
8:41 NYPD and
8:43 um I was working in Jersey became 1985 I
8:48 became the warden of the Pay County
8:50 Jail. So I was I I was 20 I was 30 years
8:53 old. I was 30 years old. I was the chief
8:57 of department. I had 300 people working
9:00 for me. I uh you know, ironically, it
9:03 was the actual jail. You know, the P
9:07 County jail in Patterson is one of the
9:10 biggest county jails in the state of New
9:11 Jersey. No matter where you're watching
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