0:02 There's lots of data now showing that
0:04 people that are doing these like short
0:07 bursts at least a minute long but up to
0:10 three minutes they're moving faster with
0:13 intent and it's having outsiz effects on
0:15 on health outcome. So for example
0:18 individuals that do on the high end so
0:21 they're doing you know 3 minutes of this
0:23 short burst of an unstructured type of
0:25 exercise snack and they do it three
0:27 times a day. So it's a total of 9
0:30 minutes a day. Okay, that's associated
0:31 with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed
0:34 mortality, 40% reduction in cancer
0:35 related mortality, a 50% reduction in
0:37 cardiovascular related mortality. Wow.
0:39 >> 9 minutes a day.
0:40 >> Welcome to the Hubberman Lab podcast
0:42 where we discuss science and
0:50 I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor
0:52 of neurobiology and opthalmology at
0:54 Stanford School of Medicine. My guest
0:56 today is Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a
0:58 biomedical scientist and leading public
1:00 health educator. For over a decade,
1:01 Rhonda has been one of the most trusted
1:04 voices in building science-based health
1:06 protocols. Today, we discuss what the
1:07 latest and best research says we should
1:09 all be doing to improve our health and
1:11 vitality and avoid disease. Rhonda
1:13 shares with us her exact exercise,
1:16 nutrition, supplementation, and sauna
1:18 protocols. And we get really detailed
1:20 about the mechanisms and logic behind
1:21 each one. We also discussed the things
1:23 that science say you can do to
1:24 significantly reduce your cancer and
1:26 cardiovascular risk, including how to
1:29 reduce visceral fat and arterial plaque.
1:31 Today's discussion truly leaves no stone
1:34 unturned. We discuss how eating can
1:35 increase inflammation, believe it or
1:38 not, ways to support your gut health,
1:40 creatine, vitamin D, why broad vitamin
1:42 and mineral and fiber support is
1:44 crucial, as well as the different forms
1:45 of magnesium and each of their unique
1:48 effects. We also discuss omega-3s and
1:50 why prescription sources of omega-3s may
1:52 be the cleanest and most cost-sufficient
1:55 way to obtain sufficient omega-3 intake.
1:57 We also discuss the importance of
1:59 prioritizing regular resistance training
2:01 and hit workouts over protein. You still
2:03 need protein, but emphasizing the
2:05 exercise component is crucial. And we
2:07 discuss fiber, micronutrients, and why
2:10 short-term fasting can be beneficial.
2:12 Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a true wealth
2:14 of knowledge and today she generously
2:16 provides us a master class on how you
2:18 can design and adjust the exact health
2:21 protocols to meet your specific needs.
2:23 Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize
2:24 that this podcast is separate from my
2:26 teaching and research roles at Stanford.
2:28 It is however part of my desire and
2:30 effort to bring zerocost to consumer
2:31 information about science and science
2:34 related tools to the general public. In
2:35 keeping with that theme, today's episode
2:38 does include sponsors. And now for my
2:40 discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick.
2:43 Welcome back, Dr. Ronda Patrick.
2:44 >> Excited to be here.
2:45 >> It's been a while. I'm so excited.
2:48 There's so much to go into. And I'll
2:50 start off the same way I started last
2:52 time because it's even more true. Thank
2:55 you for being first person into this
2:56 public science health education
2:58 business. I don't know if everyone's
3:00 aware of it, but you were the first
3:02 person in, which is why I didn't say
3:05 first man in because the first person in
3:07 was and is a woman. and you've done a
3:09 marvelous job of educating people on
3:11 science, how to parse papers and data,
3:14 health practices, and um you know, the
3:17 rest of us are just trying to follow in
3:19 your wake. So, thank you very much. I
3:21 just want to thank you for being first.
3:23 >> Oh, man. Thank you so much for that. And
3:24 also, thank you for doing what you do. I
3:27 mean, you really do a great service for
3:29 science, communication, um you know,
3:32 education, helping people love science
3:33 and get healthier.
3:35 >> Well, thank you. Well, uh you're the
3:37 pioneer. It's not always easy being a
3:40 pioneer, but we all benefit. So,
3:43 let's jump in at exercise because um
3:45 lately you've actually been posting your
3:47 workouts, which is awesome. And uh
3:48 you're clearly very fit. I learned
3:50 before talking to you today that uh you
3:52 were a competitive athlete. You were a
3:54 long jumper or triple jumper.
3:57 >> I was a long jumper, but I would say my
3:59 real competitive athleteness comes from
4:01 my jump roping. >> Okay.
4:02 >> Okay.
4:04 >> On a professional jump roping team. >> Professional.
4:05 >> Professional.
4:07 >> Yes. Yeah, it was it was we would
4:09 compete. So I my friend and I started
4:11 the team when we were in second grade
4:12 and it was called the San Diego Sands
4:14 Skippers. It was part of the
4:16 International Rope Skipping Organization
4:18 which was actually started by her uncle
4:20 but there's jump rope teams all around
4:23 the world and you know now I think
4:25 there's a new name but like it got taken
4:27 over by the Universal jump rope team or
4:28 something like that. I don't know
4:30 exactly what it is but um so I was on a
4:32 team and every year we would compete in
4:34 in Boulder, Colorado. There was
4:36 competitions for all kinds of, you know,
4:39 jumping rope and um I would perform and
4:41 start jump rope teams around the school
4:42 around different schools in San Diego.
4:45 So I I used to get out of school um you
4:47 know get out of school free card and uh
4:50 my partner and I would go and and start
4:52 um do workshops at other schools and
4:54 help them start jump rope teams and the
4:57 idea was cardiovascular health, healthy
4:59 heart and uh yeah so so that's really I
5:02 would say my my my roots with uh being a
5:04 competitive athlete. Awesome. I love
5:05 skipping rope. Is it okay to say
5:07 skipping rope or is jumping rope the >> Okay,
5:07 >> Okay,
5:08 >> skipping rope. Jumping rope.
5:10 >> And actually, it's a great opportunity
5:11 for me to ask you what your thoughts are
5:14 about um exercise that isn't just
5:16 linear, right? I know like real jump
5:19 ropers can do crossovers and um and
5:20 these days I'm seeing a lot more about
5:22 rope flow. I think it's David Week and
5:24 others online are, you know, stuff
5:25 that's getting people out of the
5:27 standard, you know, curls, bench
5:30 presses, lunges, you know, and getting
5:32 movements that are more just, for lack
5:34 of a better term, across the body. Do
5:35 you think there's something to that in
5:38 terms of real physical benefits? I mean,
5:39 I imagine there is.
5:41 >> Sure. I mean, I wouldn't be the expert
5:43 to be able to give you a good answer on
5:45 that, but I do think that jumping rope
5:48 in general has unique benefits in
5:50 addition to obviously it's a great
5:52 cardiovascular exercise. You're getting
5:54 the weightbearing aspects as well for
5:56 building bone density. And I think that
5:58 earlier for me, you know, I was doing it
6:00 as a a young girl. So important, right?
6:01 because you're kind of banking that that
6:03 bone density early on, which is
6:05 important because at some point, you
6:07 know, menopause will hit and and uh
6:09 estrogen goes down and and so you start
6:12 to lose more bone. But um yeah, I'm sure
6:14 there's a lot of benefits to jumping
6:16 rope beyond what I'm describing as
6:18 cardiovascular benefits and bone
6:20 benefits that someone else could answer.
6:21 >> I'm certainly going to get back to
6:23 jumping rope now that we, you know,
6:25 resurrected it in this conversation. And
6:28 I have to say, um, uh, bone density
6:30 measurements aside, you have awesome
6:32 posture. I noticed people's posture. Oh, really?
6:32 really?
6:33 >> Yeah. I didn't didn't mean to put you on
6:34 the spot here, but yeah. When I walked
6:36 in, I was like, if you ever interacted
6:38 with Rhonda in person, which I I have,
6:40 you have amazing posture, and these
6:42 days, good posture is rare. So, who
6:44 knows? Maybe the things uh are related.
6:46 I imagine they probably are. Bone health
6:48 and posture and so forth. In terms of
6:50 the sorts of exercise that people are
6:52 more familiar with, what's your routine
6:55 look like? and what sorts of things in
6:58 your routine are non-negotiables and
7:00 where's the place for experimentation
7:03 and kind of what you're exploring now.
7:06 >> So for me, exercise is part of my
7:08 personal hygiene as you and I were
7:09 discussing it. It really is a
7:12 non-negotiable. I absolutely have to do
7:14 exercise just like I have to brush my
7:17 teeth. And um you know I kind of got
7:20 that from Dr. Dr. Ben Lavine, who's a
7:21 probably one of the world leading
7:24 cardiovascular exercise physiologists.
7:25 He's at UT Southwest in Dallas. Just
7:27 want to shout out his name because I've
7:29 really learned a lot from him. But the
7:32 non-negotiables for me really are
7:35 getting cardiovascular exercise and
7:38 getting my my resistance training. So,
7:40 building muscle, maintaining muscle
7:43 strength as well. So, my routine for me,
7:45 I work out probably about 5 to six hours
7:49 a week. And those workouts, I largely am
7:51 doing a combination of high-intensity
7:53 interval training that's not necessarily
7:56 like the Norwegian 4x4 where I'm going
7:58 as hard as I can for one minute or four
7:59 minutes and then recovering for three
8:01 minutes and doing that four times.
8:02 That's really, you know, the Norwegian
8:05 4x4 is a hard workout. Um, it's really
8:07 good for improving your cardior fitness,
8:09 which I think is one of the best markers
8:11 for longevity. We can talk about that.
8:14 Um, I do a lot of, you know, it's a it's
8:18 a mixture of doing,
8:20 you know, rowing machine, getting on the
8:23 assault bike, and then doing mix it in
8:24 mixing it in with lifting weights, doing
8:27 some deadlifts, you know, doing squats.
8:29 Um, so it's really for me a
8:31 non-negotiable to to do my my vigorous
8:33 intensity exercise is what I would call
8:35 it. So, you're really kind of getting
8:39 your heart rate up to, you know, 80% max
8:41 heart rate at at points. Not always, but
8:43 especially during the intervals. I would
8:44 say that's a non-negotiable for me.
8:46 >> How many days a week are you doing that?
8:49 >> I do my my longer hit workouts. So, I
8:51 have four days a week where I'm doing at
8:54 least an hour. So, two of those two of
8:55 those sessions are more of a CrossFit
8:57 type of training where I'll do the first
8:59 30 minutes will be strength training.
9:01 So, I'll just be lifting heavier with
9:03 like, you know, fewer reps. What's the
9:04 rest between sets? Sorry to get
9:05 granular, but people will wonder.
9:08 >> What's funny is I typically rest about 2
9:10 minutes between my sets. I I I recover
9:12 pretty quick.
9:14 >> Um, and my co I do it with a coach and
9:16 my coach usually tells me that I'm spot
9:18 on. I'm like ready to go and it's been
9:19 about 2 minutes.
9:22 >> So I I usually that's my recovery time.
9:24 >> And so the first 30 minutes is strength
9:26 training and that'll be like deadlifts.
9:27 It'll be you know squats. I'll be
9:29 cleaning. I'll be doing front squats.
9:30 Sometimes I do barbell or back squats,
9:32 right? like it's a mixture of different
9:34 types of strength training.
9:36 >> And then the last 30 minutes is more of
9:37 a high-intensity interval training
9:39 session session. So it'll be like,
9:41 >> you know, where I'm I'm getting my heart
9:42 rate up. So I'm mixing in the row
9:44 machine and then I have like maybe I'm
9:45 doing cleans but they're lighter, right?
9:48 So it's like more reps but lighter load,
9:50 right? So
9:52 >> um that's I do that twice a week and
9:54 that each is an hour session. And then I
9:57 do also twice a week about an hour and
10:00 20 minutes of it's also more high
10:01 intensity but I have more recovery time
10:03 cuz I'm doing with my girlfriends and we
10:05 kind of chitchat a little bit and so um
10:08 but it's a very similar we do you know
10:10 rowing machine assault bikes we do the
10:12 skier you know Rogue has that skier
10:14 >> and then we mix it in with you know
10:16 chest presses and we do you know
10:19 assisted pull-ups and we do you know
10:21 lighter squats with like larger you know
10:22 more reps. Mhm.
10:24 >> So that's another, you know, two hours a
10:26 week. So I have four hours a week of
10:28 just doing a lot of that sort of
10:31 CrossFit HIT type of training. And then
10:35 I mix that in with my more like runs
10:37 that I do, which I would say are
10:38 >> still they're still considered vigorous
10:40 intensity. They're just not quite as
10:44 high intensity. And I I do probably I
10:46 run in like maybe six miles a week. So
10:50 maybe maybe at at my max, but these days
10:51 I'm mostly running probably four like
10:53 four miles a week.
10:55 >> So um those runs tend to be like
10:56 sometimes they're two miles, sometimes
10:58 they're three miles. And you know,
10:59 >> you enjoy running.
11:01 >> I do. I do. And I think it's important
11:03 as well. And sometimes I'll run with my
11:04 husband and we just kind of like chill
11:06 out and talk. And
11:08 >> you know, it's it's a nice
11:10 >> time for me as well just to kind of do
11:11 that with him. Mhm.
11:15 >> Um and then on weekends I'll probably do
11:18 like a hike with my family and sometimes
11:20 we'll do like a sprint up the hill and
11:21 you know, but it's more just enjoyable
11:25 time in nature. Um still moving but you
11:27 know it's it's kind of family time too.
11:29 >> Weight vests on the run or hike.
11:30 >> No, I don't not I mean I'm kind of
11:33 wanting to experiment with that but not
11:34 really. I'm just kind of sometimes we
11:36 bring our puppy and
11:38 >> you know so it's it's more about the
11:40 experience I think than like I'm like I
11:41 get I get a lot of workout throughout
11:41 the week. >> Sure.
11:42 >> Sure.
11:43 >> But it's like you said it's
11:45 non-negotiable for me and and times when
11:48 I'm like like today. So, you know, I had
11:50 a long drive and so I I got on my
11:52 Pelaton and I did a 10-minute you know I
11:54 did a 10-minute Tabata back toback. So
11:56 it was like two backto-back Tobatas,
11:57 right? So it was it ended up being 10
11:59 minutes. It was like 30 second recovery
12:02 in between the two Tbata sessions. 2 to1
12:04 ratio, 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off.
12:06 But like I have to do something every
12:09 day and if I'm traveling or I have like
12:11 an early podcast or something, I'll I'll
12:12 just jump on the bike and I have to get
12:14 that blood flow. Sometimes I'm in my
12:16 hotel room and I don't want to go to the
12:17 gym. I don't have time and I just in my
12:20 room, you know, I do I do the air
12:21 squats, I'll do high knees, jumping
12:23 jacks, and I repeat for 10 minutes. I'm
12:24 getting my heart rate up and I'm, you
12:26 know, I've got sweat on my brow. Like
12:27 I'm not it's not like the most intense
12:30 workout, but it's so important for me.
12:32 You know, there's there's a variety of
12:34 brain benefits that have been shown with
12:36 even just 10 minutes of this vigorous
12:38 type of intensity of workout you do, you
12:40 know, where you're I mean, you probably
12:41 have seen this this data where it's like
12:44 just 10 minutes of this vigorous type of
12:46 exercise, you're immediately increasing
12:49 neuronal connections. Um, there's been
12:51 studies showing that you have an
12:53 improvement in executive function by
12:56 like 14%, which is pretty big. I think
12:59 it was like a 50 millisecond improvement
13:00 processing speed or something which
13:01 doesn't sound a lot but actually it
13:02 translates to a big improvement in
13:04 executive function. So my brain works
13:06 better, I feel better, you know, better
13:08 mood. Um there's even studies that have
13:12 compared impulse control after various
13:14 types of intensity of workout. So like
13:16 there's one study that compared a more
13:19 low intensity versus moderate intensity
13:21 versus high intensity. So, you're
13:23 talking about like walking versus maybe,
13:26 you know, jogging slowly where you can
13:28 still have a conversation versus like
13:29 you're doing a HIT workout, right?
13:30 You're on. When you're on, you're not
13:31 really talking because you're going as
13:33 hard as you can during that interval.
13:36 >> And it was the highintensity, you know,
13:38 vigorous intensity exercise that really
13:40 increased plasma serotonin, which has
13:42 been shown to associate with brain
13:44 serotonin. The studies have been done.
13:46 And serotonin is very important for, as
13:49 you know, for impulse control. I mean a
13:50 lot of people think about serotonin with
13:52 respect to mood because we have these
13:54 selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
13:57 SSRIs that are used to treat you know
13:59 depression major depressive disorder but
14:01 serotonin as you know does so much more
14:03 more than that and impulse control is
14:06 one of the the the big things that
14:08 serotonin plays a role in and so the
14:09 studies showed that plasma serotonin
14:11 increased in the higher intensity group
14:13 and that correlated with improved
14:15 impulse control. So, of course, for us
14:17 now in the modern day society that we
14:19 live in, we're constantly being
14:21 bombarded with, you know, social media
14:23 and all these things and like you have
14:26 to be able to kind of like filter that
14:27 out and not like just go with the
14:29 impulse like check my social media,
14:30 check my, you know, and how many likes
14:32 did I get or whatever. You need to just
14:34 be able to focus. And so that for me,
14:36 you know, serotonin is important and so
14:38 I like to get that vigorous intensity
14:39 exercise as well.
14:41 >> I'd like to take a quick break and
14:43 acknowledge our sponsor, Our Place.
14:45 Surprisingly, toxic compounds such as
14:47 PASES or forever chemicals are still
14:50 found in 80% of non-stick pans as well
14:52 as utensils, appliances, and countless
14:54 other kitchen products. As I've
14:56 discussed before on this podcast, these
14:58 PAS are forever chemicals like Teflon
15:00 have been linked to major health issues
15:02 such as hormone disruption, gut
15:04 microbiome disruption, fertility issues,
15:06 and many other health problems. So, it's
15:08 very important to avoid them. This is
15:11 why I'm a huge fan of ourplace. Our
15:12 Place products are made with the highest
15:14 quality materials and are all PAS and
15:16 toxin-free. I particularly love their
15:19 Titanium Always Pan Pro. It's the first
15:21 non-stick pan made with zero chemicals
15:24 and zero coating. Instead, it uses pure
15:26 titanium. That means it has no harmful
15:28 forever chemicals, and it does not
15:30 degrade or lose its non-stick effect
15:32 over time. It's also beautiful to look
15:34 at. I cook my eggs in my titanium Always
15:37 Pan Pro almost every morning. The design
15:38 allows for the eggs to cook perfectly
15:40 without sticking to the pan. Right now,
15:42 Hour Place is having their biggest sale
15:44 of the season. You can save up to 40%
15:47 sitewide now through April 12th. Just
15:50 head to fromourplace.com/huberman.
15:53 Again, that's fromourplace.com/huberman
15:56 to save up to 40%. Today's episode is
15:59 also brought to us by Lingo. One of the
16:00 most important factors in your short and
16:02 long-term health is your body's ability
16:05 to manage glucose over time. Glucose
16:07 directly impacts our brain function,
16:09 mood, and energy. You want your glucose
16:11 relatively stable across the day without
16:14 big peaks or valleys. This is why I use
16:16 the continuous glucose monitoring app
16:18 from Lingo by Abbott. Lingo provides
16:20 minute-by-minute glucose data directly
16:22 within the app, showing you how your
16:24 glucose responds to food, exercise, and
16:26 stress. This information can help you
16:28 make smarter choices to support your
16:31 health both now and in the long term.
16:33 The CDC estimates that more than one in
16:35 three American adults has pre-diabetes
16:37 and that many of these people don't know
16:38 they are living with pre-diabetes.
16:40 Visibility about how your diet and
16:42 activity affect your glucose can be the
16:44 first step toward informed conversations
16:46 with your doctor and making smarter
16:48 daily choices. If you'd like to try
16:50 Lingo, Lingo is offering Huberman Lab
16:52 listeners in the US and UK 10% off a
16:54 four-week plan. Just visit hellingo.com/huberman
16:56 hellingo.com/huberman
16:58 for more information. Terms and
17:00 conditions apply. Again, that's hellingo.com/huberman.
17:03 hellingo.com/huberman.
17:05 I love that you mentioned other other
17:06 functions of serotonin because, as you
17:08 point out, it is so heavily associated
17:11 with this mood aspect and certainly has
17:13 a role there. But um the impulse control
17:16 piece is I think is a non-trivial aspect
17:18 to uh the effects of exercise and just
17:21 generally I'm curious, do you um bring
17:23 your phone or feel compelled to check
17:24 your phone during workouts or are you
17:26 able to just say I'm compartmentalizing
17:27 now this is the workout. You might put
17:30 on music or check maybe text here or
17:31 there if you need to, but are you able
17:34 to compartmentalize or um do you
17:36 struggle with the the phone during workouts?
17:36 workouts?
17:38 >> Oh, I don't bring my phone to my workout
17:41 at all. Like I don't Now I do have a
17:43 watch that I wear that you know if
17:44 there's like an emergency I'll get a
17:46 text message. Oftentimes I put it on
17:48 silent like I on no notifications though
17:50 cuz I don't want to be bothered. But I
17:54 don't I don't really check my phone. Um,
17:56 I I I don't really like checking things
17:58 like social media. For me, it's just a
18:02 distraction. And frankly, I think it's
18:04 terrible for people's brains. Even
18:06 though like my business kind of depends
18:08 on it somewhat, I think I think social
18:09 media is not really good for people to
18:12 be honest. Uh, so I don't really check
18:14 my phone or bring my phone to my
18:16 workouts. My workouts are I like to chat
18:18 with my friends when I'm working out
18:19 with them and that's fun. >> Yeah,
18:19 >> Yeah,
18:20 >> that's in real life. >> Yes.
18:22 >> Yes.
18:23 as the kids say.
18:26 >> Yeah, that's in real life. And um yeah,
18:28 phones, phones for me are not something
18:30 that I bring to my workout.
18:32 >> Great. Yeah, I've um been experimenting
18:34 with not allowing the phone in my gym
18:37 and just the workouts go so much better.
18:39 And I find that the mental and physical
18:40 resetting aspect of working out just
18:42 seems to be enhanced. But um sounds like
18:44 you were already there and I'm just
18:46 arriving. So, I have a couple other
18:47 specific questions about your workouts
18:49 because for my own interest and I know
18:50 many people will wonder for the
18:53 dedicated weight workouts. Are these
18:55 whole body workouts? And you said low
18:56 reps. Uh maybe you could just tell us
19:00 what low reps is for you and then the uh
19:02 seems like the the everpresent question
19:05 is to failure, close to failure. I mean,
19:06 um just to, you know, round out that
19:08 that portion of the of the workout picture.
19:08 picture.
19:10 >> The workouts that I'm doing with my
19:11 strength training workouts with my
19:13 coach, you know, it it really depends.
19:16 Most of those workouts are they're
19:19 they're multi- joint workouts. So I am
19:21 most of the time doing you know some
19:24 either front squat, back squat or I'm
19:26 cleaning it as well, right? Which
19:27 obviously the lake the weight goes down
19:30 if I'm doing if I'm cleaning it cuz it's
19:32 hard to clean. It's also the hard like
19:34 it's the thing that I hate doing the most.
19:35 most. >> Cleans.
19:35 >> Cleans.
19:38 >> Oh yeah. cleans with front squat because
19:41 it's really hard and for me I mean for
19:42 others who've been doing it for years
19:44 I'm sure it's like you know they love it
19:46 but for me it's very hard. I've only
19:49 been doing clean since, you know,
19:52 February 2024.
19:55 So, I'm pretty new to it. And so, it's
19:57 mentally like I have to overcome that
19:58 challenge. Which, by the way, once I
20:00 started doing all this sort of weight
20:02 training, I've always been an endurance
20:04 junkie. Like I like I used to like go
20:06 long runs and you know, races and stuff
20:09 like that. So, for me, that's like my
20:11 safe spot, right? That's what comes easy
20:13 to me. uh weight training and resistance
20:16 training, strength training, definitely
20:18 not something that I've done my whole
20:19 life. I'm so glad that I started doing
20:21 it, but very very challenging for me.
20:23 And so I would say the biggest effect
20:25 was on my brain and the ability to
20:27 handle stress better
20:29 >> where it was like unbelievable cuz it
20:31 was so hard and I I just didn't want to
20:34 do these cleans, you know, and and and
20:37 these front squats. Um and then the rest
20:39 of my day was not as hard. And that to
20:42 me was like the biggest surprise for
20:44 this type of training. But anyway, so um
20:47 I do a variety of um if I'm doing if I'm
20:48 going heavier then it you know depends.
20:50 Sometimes I'll start off it's like okay
20:52 we start off we do five reps and then we
20:53 go down to four and then we go down to
20:55 three and then we go down to one. Right.
20:56 >> You're doing singles.
20:58 >> We do. Mhm. I Yeah. Yeah. And that's the
21:00 hardest. It's the hardest.
21:02 >> But then there's there's like my coach
21:04 like it's just one. It's just one. You
21:06 know, sometimes we'll do like six, five,
21:08 and then we do four twice and then we do
21:10 three twice, right? And so it all
21:13 depends, you know, also on the day
21:16 there's some days where I'm just like,
21:18 you know, can we do lower reps and like
21:20 lighter weight, right? Where I'm just
21:22 like it's this is the day for me. I I'm
21:25 I'm stressed. I'm not I'm not here. Like
21:26 so you kind of have to modify your
21:28 workout, right? According to how you
21:32 feel that day. Um, but I would say that
21:34 those the majority of my strength
21:36 training workouts are or deadlifting.
21:38 You know, I love deadl dead deadlifting.
21:40 I think I'm pretty good at at pulling
21:41 that weight up, lifting that weight up.
21:42 >> A straight bar, hex bar.
21:44 >> I do a straight bar script. There's so
21:44 many variables.
21:49 >> Straight bar, straight bar. And um it's
21:50 the same deal with that. Like most of
21:51 the time with strength training, we'll
21:53 do, you know, we start off at like five
21:56 or six and then work our way down. And
21:59 then I I usually do a drop set after,
22:00 you know, any of those sessions where
22:02 I'll do 10 and then it's like a lot
22:03 lighter, right?
22:05 >> So those those are typically my strength
22:07 training sessions or multi- joint.
22:09 Sometimes I'll do accessory sessions,
22:11 you know, where I'm working. I do, you
22:14 know, the dips
22:16 >> um or
22:18 the Bulgarian, you know, the Bulgarian
22:20 split squats. I mean, just the accessory
22:21 stuff that you're working the like
22:23 smaller stabilization muscles and stuff
22:24 like that. I love that you call
22:26 Bulgarian split squats accessory,
22:28 smaller muscles. For a lot of people,
22:30 that's the compound work, which is just
22:33 I have to say I I'm inside I'm just like
22:37 so delighted because I mean obviously uh
22:38 weight training is something that's
22:40 caught on broadly for men and women now.
22:42 But I don't know many women, and I know
22:44 they're out there, but I don't know many
22:47 women who are uh working down to singles
22:50 on multi- joint, like real mult multi-
22:54 joint, like you know, deadlifts, cleans.
22:55 I know they're out there, but it's not
22:58 that common to see in gyms. And uh this
23:00 is going to no doubt spark a debate
23:02 because you know some of the older
23:04 slightly orinary but very credentialed
23:06 strength training folks have been online
23:09 recently saying that as people um past
23:13 35 that they shouldn't do squats that
23:15 they shouldn't do deadlifts and
23:16 certainly shouldn't do them heavy
23:17 because it is because of this whole
23:18 thing of you know you can do higher reps
23:19 and can go to failure and still get
23:22 hypertrophy. But what I love is that
23:24 you're not necessarily talking about
23:26 hypertrophy. Maybe some hypertrophy, but
23:28 this is about strength. This is about
23:31 building more strength and triples and
23:33 doubles and singles.
23:34 >> That's awesome.
23:37 >> It's hard. It's so hard. And it's the
23:39 part that I I'm like all about. Let's
23:41 like the last 30 minutes where it's hit
23:43 and that's hard. It's a different kind
23:44 of hard,
23:46 >> but for me the strength training is the
23:48 hardest. And there's definitely a mental
23:50 component, right, where I do not want to
23:51 do it. It's like you talk about with
23:53 cold plunging, right? like you you just
23:55 it's so unpleasant and you don't want to
23:57 do it and like you do it and it's like
23:58 that mental toughness that you're
24:01 building right I that's what I
24:03 experience when I'm doing these you know
24:05 strength training exercises that I'm
24:07 doing and and I don't know if it's going
24:11 to get easier maybe it will hasn't yet I
24:14 still I still dread it but I do it and
24:16 uh I'm proud of myself for doing it but
24:18 it is it's definitely hard and I am
24:20 getting stronger I think mentally and
24:24 obviously physically as Well, but um
24:25 have to add in the aerobic as well
24:27 though. I think that's really important.
24:29 >> That's your base. Yeah, you love it.
24:30 >> I love it. And I do think
24:31 cardiorespiratory fitness is very
24:33 important, you know, for for long-term
24:35 health as well as, you know, obviously
24:37 building muscle and strength.
24:39 >> Well, on the one hand, I want for you as
24:41 a friend to for you to hate the heavy
24:44 work less. On the other hand, I don't
24:47 because of this literature. I'm sure
24:48 you're familiar with it, but uh the
24:50 anterior mids singulate cortex, this
24:52 brain area that is hyperlastic
24:54 throughout the lifespan, which is rare
24:58 for a brain area and it enlarges um when
25:00 we do things we don't want to do. I
25:02 mean, it's so clear it's not just about
25:04 doing hard things about it's about doing
25:05 the hard thing you hate.
25:08 >> And and for you that sounds like the the
25:10 heavy compound movements for me. Yeah. I
25:12 don't like the cold plunge, which is why
25:14 I do it. I don't think it's magic. I
25:16 just think it's a it's a surefire
25:17 stimulus that I hate to make get
25:20 mentally stronger. And I think um having
25:22 something that you really despise that
25:25 you know is good for you seems to keep
25:27 this anterior midsulate cortex volume
25:29 either increasing or the same. And
25:31 that's actually the thing in these
25:32 so-called super aers that is the
25:35 strongest anatomical coralate that we
25:37 have. So on the one hand I hope it gets
25:39 easier on the other hand for your sake I
25:40 hope it doesn't get easier because it's
25:42 still it's going to be so much more
25:44 beneficial. I have a coach who can tell
25:47 when it's getting easier and she will
25:49 definitely up the weight.
25:51 >> I I I mean it keeps I mean it keeps
25:54 going up and so it doesn't it it gets
25:56 easier in a sense but it doesn't right.
25:58 >> So I mean I think that's that's the
25:59 whole point is you're building strength
26:00 and you keep
26:02 >> making it heavier and it becomes harder
26:04 again because now it's heavier. >> Awesome.
26:04 >> Awesome.
26:06 >> But um and I haven't gotten injured so
26:09 that's also you know knock on wood.
26:12 >> Yeah. No, knock on wood. Um, thank you
26:14 for rounding out that picture. It's
26:15 super inspiring for men and women, you
26:16 know. So,
26:18 >> it's not easy to post on social media
26:20 because obviously I'm a newbie, so I
26:23 have all sorts of, you know, things that
26:25 I can ways I can improve, but I'm
26:26 posting it, you know.
26:28 >> Well, and the fact that you're working
26:29 down into triples, doubles, and singles,
26:32 I think is um something that I'm trying
26:34 to do more of. And I think um this
26:36 notion that you can get hypertrophy with
26:37 higher reps if you take it to failure.
26:39 Sure. I I totally agree. Read the
26:40 studies. totally agree with the data,
26:42 but not everything is about hypertrophy.
26:44 I think that's what people forget. It's
26:47 not all about growing muscle. Um, NVO2
26:49 max, which is great, but it's just it's
26:52 not all about um the top contour. And I
26:54 what I love about the way you approach
26:55 everything is you're you go through
26:58 multiple layers of of the the health
27:00 stratus as it were. This probably a good
27:02 opportunity to talk about protein
27:04 because I have a very specific question
27:05 about protein. We all hear one gram of
27:07 quality protein per pound of body weight
27:09 or lean body weight. sort of what we're
27:11 kind of what's thrown at us. By doing
27:13 the heavier weight training, do you
27:15 notice that your protein appetite has
27:17 increased? Like appetite specifically
27:19 for protein foods?
27:22 >> I don't know that I have. You know, I
27:25 interestingly have been doing a little
27:29 bit more intermittent fasting in which
27:30 you know people think about intermittent
27:32 fasting, they think about it as just one
27:34 thing, one intervention. I think it's
27:36 two. there's a behavioral aspect to it
27:38 where it's a tool to sort of lower the
27:40 amount of calories you're taking in. The
27:41 other one would be this metabolic
27:44 switch. But so I've actually since I
27:46 don't know September, maybe last
27:49 September of 2025 been been doing more
27:50 intermittent fasting. And what I mean by
27:54 that is just really just eating less.
27:57 And um the reason for that is because I
28:00 noticed that everything that I was doing
28:02 which was you know I'm I eat healthy I
28:05 exercise a lot and yet I was sort of
28:08 gaining more fat in the the belly
28:11 section right the visceral fat and the
28:15 only thing that really helped me stop
28:17 that put the put the brakes on was
28:20 getting more in a caloric deficit. Um, so
28:22 so
28:25 maybe my drive to do that kind of is
28:27 skewing whether or not my appetite for
28:31 protein would go up. But I personally am
28:34 on the scale of 1.2 to 1.6 g per
28:36 kilogram body weight, which
28:36 >> per kilogram
28:38 >> per kilogram, which is probably a little
28:40 bit less than the pound.
28:41 >> You know, it's it's a kind of a
28:44 throwaway statement. gram of quality
28:47 protein um as defined as something with
28:49 you know lots of the essential amino
28:53 acids and uh uh so forth per pound or
28:57 per lean pound of body mass which is
28:58 something I think I and many other
29:00 people shoot for but I'm curious how
29:02 religious you are about the you know
29:04 getting a certain protein amount or per meal
29:04 meal
29:06 >> basically it wasn't working for me in
29:08 terms of like I was really trying to get
29:10 aim for like the higher end of the for
29:13 me you know 1.6 six grams per kilogram
29:14 body weight or even a little bit above
29:16 that. And what I found what was
29:18 happening is that I was actually getting
29:20 gaining more weight because I think I
29:21 was consuming more calories at the same
29:23 time is if you're getting it from whole
29:25 foods, right? Like that's just kind of
29:27 naturally going to happen. Uh and so I
29:31 had to slide down. Um but I'm still I'm
29:32 still like I said, I'm still getting
29:35 within that range of like probably on
29:38 average maybe 1.3 1.4 g per kilogram
29:40 body weight. And it's really it's really
29:43 worked well for me. But like people are
29:44 different and you have different goals,
29:46 right? You know, like I'm gaining muscle
29:48 mass and I feel like all my training is
29:49 like the most important thing. And I
29:50 think that we need
29:52 >> generally speaking, I think people
29:54 should become more obsessed with
29:56 training and less obsessed with protein.
29:58 Like the protein will complement the
29:59 training. And as you mentioned, if
30:01 you're training perhaps your appetite
30:03 for protein will increase and so you'll
30:05 start to eat, you know, more protein and
30:08 less refined carbohydrates. I already
30:09 wasn't eating a lot of refined
30:12 ultrarocessed foods in the first place.
30:13 >> Probably not the answer you were
30:15 expecting, but
30:18 >> it's it's really u for me like I I just
30:20 focusing on getting more protein was was
30:24 not working for my body um in terms of
30:26 but then again I'm 47 years old. You
30:28 know that per menopause phase very
30:31 different than someone who's 37 maybe.
30:33 >> I don't know the answer to that. But I I
30:35 um I do know that I hear from more and
30:37 more people these days that they are
30:38 having a hard time getting that one gram
30:40 of protein per pound of body weight. It
30:42 feels like a lot to them is what they're
30:43 saying. They feel like they're kind of
30:44 forcing themselves to do it.
30:45 >> You shouldn't feel that way.
30:47 >> Exactly. So, I'm actually really pleased
30:48 with your answer. Not because I have an
30:50 agenda here, but because I and many
30:53 other people seem to feel like unless
30:56 there's a lot of resistance training or
30:59 tremendous demands like hiking, you
31:00 know, while backpacking where if you
31:01 burn tons of calories, you're carrying
31:03 you're basically rocking like 9 hours a
31:06 day, right? That um they have a hard
31:08 time getting that much protein down. Um
31:10 and I think that's also the case if
31:12 people are eating starches. Like I eat
31:14 rice and oatmeal and some breads and
31:16 things like that. Not a lot of bread,
31:17 but you know, it sounds like you eat starches.
31:18 starches.
31:20 >> I do eat oatmeal, too. It does satiate
31:23 you these days because I really kind of
31:26 more focused a little bit on I I did
31:28 want to calorically restrict somewhat
31:31 without, you know, being unhealthy.
31:33 Obviously, you can take every stressor
31:35 to a bad unhealthy place, right? You
31:36 don't want to starve yourself. You don't
31:39 want to like not eat enough food. But,
31:41 um, my my meals are mostly like healthy
31:43 protein. So, I have homemade turkey
31:45 burgers. eat a lot of I eat a lot of
31:48 those and then I eat chicken, you know,
31:50 I pasture-raised chicken. I do I do
31:53 still eat wild Alaskan salmon and then
31:56 I'll um also mix in some like filet
31:58 minion like I like grass-fed steak as well.
31:58 well. >> Yum.
31:59 >> Yum.
32:01 >> Those are my protein sources. And always
32:04 I pair it with greens. So or like some
32:07 sort of vegetable. Most of the times
32:08 it's it's greens because they're the
32:11 most most micronutrient dense. And so
32:13 these days I'm eating a lot of sauteed
32:14 collard greens that are like
32:16 pre-prepared has garlic and onion and
32:18 I'll put that, you know, have that with
32:20 my meal or I'll have some, you know,
32:22 sauteed kale. Sometimes I'll have a
32:24 salad with it, but the portions are
32:27 smaller. And like I said, I I also do a
32:28 little bit of intermittent fasting. We
32:30 can talk about that as well, but that's
32:32 kind of these days what I'm doing for my
32:34 meals. I haven't eaten as much.
32:35 Sometimes I'll eat the high protein
32:38 oats. They have those high protein oats
32:39 that have you have you seen those? No, I
32:41 eat oatmeal, but I I like protein foods.
32:43 I like vegetables. I like fruit. I feel
32:46 very lucky to like those foods mainly.
32:47 And then the starch for me has to be
32:50 very clean. I like oatmeal, rice,
32:52 >> homemade pastas I'll eat. Like if I go
32:53 out, I'll have sometimes I'll have some
32:55 homemade pasta or a sourdough bread or
32:58 something. But I find that most starches
32:59 that are out there in the world have a
33:01 bunch of other junk in them. And I just
33:03 feel lousy, get kind of sleepy
33:06 afterwards. So I uh so it sounds like we
33:08 eat pretty similarly although I probably
33:09 eat more starches than you do.
33:11 >> It's the more processed types of
33:13 carbohydrates that as you mentioned it's
33:15 like you typically you don't feel good
33:17 after you eat them and you know part of
33:19 that's the post prenial inflammatory
33:20 response because some of those foods are
33:22 a little more inflammatory. I mean a lot
33:23 of additives and stuff that are
33:25 affecting the gut gut permeabilization
33:27 you're leaking lipopolyaccharide into
33:29 the bloodstream right that's activating
33:32 the immune system. We used to inject I
33:33 don't do any animal experiments anymore
33:35 and I'm actually grateful to not do
33:36 them. So I didn't like working on
33:39 animals but it was what we did until I
33:40 decided to work on humans. But we used
33:42 to inject LPS
33:46 um to stimulate an inflammatory response
33:49 to kind of prime a regeneration response
33:50 that you could get through macrofasages
33:52 and things like that. And so LPS is a
33:54 very potent way to generate local or
33:57 even systemic inflammation. I think um
33:58 hearing that some starches will
34:02 stimulate LPS that's uh interesting.
34:03 Squares with my experience. I'm not
34:05 challenging. No, no, no. I'm I'm not
34:06 challenging. It squares with my
34:07 experiences. I'm one of these I never
34:08 get stomach aches. I never get
34:09 headaches. If I do, something's badly
34:11 wrong with my stomach or my head. But if
34:13 I eat certain starches, I'll be like,
34:15 "Oh, like I feel lousy and I'm wondering
34:16 if it's this."
34:19 >> So, we have about a gram of LPS in our
34:21 gut. Like that's on average because you
34:23 know lipopolyaccharide is the outer
34:25 component of the cell membrane of gram
34:27 negative bacteria right yeast
34:28 >> we have a lot of bacteria in our gut
34:30 gram negative bacteria right trillions
34:32 of bacteria in our gut so um when when
34:35 we eat food typically like our gut
34:37 epithelial cells they we have a tight
34:38 junction that's holding them together
34:40 when we eat food they transiently open
34:42 and then close like it's kind of a
34:44 normal response right
34:46 >> um the the I would say the opposite end
34:48 of the spectrum of that would be like
34:50 celiac where they eat gluten or
34:53 something, it opens up and stays open
34:55 and so you get like a ton of LPS leakage
34:57 into the system which causes massive inflammation.
34:58 inflammation.
35:00 >> It just happens with meals in general.
35:03 You do get somewhat of a LPS response
35:05 from a meal. Now, the type of meal does
35:07 matter. So, when I when I say
35:09 >> refined carbohydrates, it's not
35:12 necessarily like healthy, you know,
35:13 carbohydrates like vegetables. It's like
35:16 you're eating something that is refined
35:19 sugar typically with saturated fat. So
35:22 those types of foods really cause like
35:24 LPS response. You know, it's it's it's
35:26 inflammation. It's bad. It's hard on the
35:28 gut. But the postprandial inflammatory
35:30 response essentially is that LPS getting
35:32 into the system activating the immune
35:34 system which draws the energy. I mean,
35:38 it's like it's very energy consuming to
35:39 activate your immune system, right?
35:40 Which why that's why when you're sick,
35:42 you're so sleepy, too, right? Well,
35:44 there's also cytoines that are sologenic
35:47 and promoting sleep, but like activating
35:49 your immune system requires a ton of
35:51 energy. And so when you're constantly
35:53 activating the immune system, you know,
35:55 that's an energy sink, right? And so you
35:56 do feel tired. And that's why a lot of
35:58 times after a meal, you're feeling kind
36:00 of lethargic.
36:02 >> Do protein foods uh of the sort that you
36:06 listed off before um do they cause less
36:07 uh opening of the tight junctions of the
36:09 gut? I think the the the big deal with
36:11 the the opening of the tight junctions
36:14 in the gut is, you know, I mean, eating
36:16 eating a big meal will do it. Eating a
36:19 very like ultrarocessed food meal will
36:20 do it.
36:22 >> Interestingly enough, just eating a
36:23 bunch of saturated fat without a fiber
36:25 matrix. So like like butter, you're just
36:27 like eating butter. Don't ever do that.
36:30 But like if you just eat butter,
36:33 >> that's been shown. My niece when she was
36:34 little, now she's all grown up, but when
36:36 she was little, I uh I taught her how to
36:38 eat like a little bit of KY Gold butter
36:40 and she loved it. So then we would do
36:44 this thing where we'd we do that. Um we
36:45 won't do that anymore.
36:46 >> I mean, a little bit's fine, but like
36:48 I'm I mean there's there's studies
36:49 showing that it does like saturated fat
36:50 is hard on the gut. >> Yeah.
36:51 >> Yeah.
36:52 >> Like I said, it's a sliding scale. Like
36:54 meals in general do it, but it's like
36:56 you would it's like you would think the
36:57 healthier foods that you're eating like
36:59 whole foods, you're getting less of that
37:01 LPS response. And then of course there's
37:03 gluten and that complicates the whole
37:05 story especially for people that are
37:06 celiac right because that's
37:08 >> which is a small percentage of people
37:10 are actually celiac right but a lot of
37:12 people seem to believe and I believe
37:14 them that when they eat gluten they feel
37:16 worse than when they don't eat gluten
37:17 >> I'm sure there's some people that are
37:20 sensitive to gluten that do feel worse
37:21 and then I'm sure some of that's the
37:23 noibo effect right that's been shown
37:25 with gluten in in particular did you
37:27 have you seen that study where people
37:29 there's been so so there were people
37:32 that think they're, you know, glut
37:36 gluten sensitive. And so they were
37:38 enrolled in this study and um these
37:40 individuals were separated into two
37:42 groups. One group was getting given the
37:44 gluten bread with gluten and the other
37:45 group was given the bread without
37:48 gluten. And the people that were given
37:51 the bread without gluten had a terrible,
37:53 you know, abdominal like they were
37:54 bloated. They felt terrible. I mean, it
37:56 was all and there was no gluten in the
37:58 actual bread, but they thought there
38:00 was. So it was thought that there's a
38:02 noibo effect where it's like the
38:03 opposite of a placebo effect where you
38:05 just you you've got that phenotype where
38:07 you think things negative are going to
38:10 happen and you can make them happen. You
38:11 can change your immune system, you can
38:14 change your brain signaling and you know
38:16 so probably a combination of both with
38:17 that regard
38:20 >> in addition to like the lethargy. So
38:21 we're I was talking about in the context
38:23 that's why it sparked my you know
38:24 interest is like you were talking about
38:26 feeling tired after a meal and I do
38:29 think that is part of that reason for
38:30 feeling sleepy but you know what's
38:32 interesting about LPS you talked about
38:34 injecting it into mice and I've also
38:36 done experiments injecting LPS into
38:38 mice. There have been studies where
38:40 people have been injected with an amount
38:43 of LPS that is, you know, similar to
38:45 what you would find your gut releasing
38:48 into your bloodstream or a placebo
38:50 control, which in this case was saline.
38:52 And individuals that were injected with
38:55 the LPS, high amounts of inflammatory
38:56 markers like TNF alpha, I mean, we're
38:59 talking like up to 50% increase
39:01 >> o over baseline, right? So high amounts
39:03 of inflammation, which makes sense. LPS
39:04 is activating the immune your immune
39:05 system is like there's a foreign
39:06 invader, right? It's not a foreign
39:08 invader. It's just the food you ate that
39:10 caused transient gut permeability.
39:12 >> And those individuals also feel
39:15 depressive symptoms and feelings of like
39:17 social withdrawal. So the inflammation
39:19 is affecting the brain, right? These
39:20 inflammatory factors are getting the
39:22 brain, crossing the bloodb brain barrier
39:23 and affecting the way we feel. And we
39:25 know now that inflammation plays a big
39:27 role in major depressive disorder and
39:29 depression. Not in all cases, but
39:30 there's a subset, right, where it's
39:31 really like it does. It seems to play a
39:33 big role. In fact, interestingly,
39:35 there's been some studies showing that
39:37 people that are that don't respond to
39:39 SSRIs are have very high amounts of C
39:41 reactive protein. So, this was the
39:43 biomarker for a classical biomarker for
39:44 inflammation. I would argue it's not
39:46 that sensitive, but nonetheless, it is a
39:48 biomarker for inflammation. And so,
39:51 people that um don't respond to SSRIs
39:53 have high amounts of inflammation, which
39:55 kind of raises this question of is there
39:56 like this subset of depression that's
39:59 really inflammatory driven, right? Um
40:02 interesting. So, so the LPS is affecting
40:05 not only our our energy levels but also
40:07 our mood.
40:09 >> And then you know there's there's also
40:13 evidence that so we know that LPS
40:16 binds to LDL particles through lipid
40:19 lipid interactions. And in fact,
40:20 it's kind of part of the adaptive
40:21 response. It's why you don't want to
40:23 ever go get your cholesterol measured
40:26 like after right after you're sick or
40:28 had a very stressful event, something
40:30 that causes inflammation because you
40:33 will increase VLDL production increases
40:36 and LDL production increases and it's
40:38 sort of an adaptive response to bind
40:40 that LPS to prevent it from you know
40:42 causing more damage and so it actually
40:46 binds to LDL particles on the apo
40:49 protein. So apo B is a protein that is
40:53 on these lipoproteins and it's a a very
40:55 important protein because that is what's
40:57 used by the LDL receptors present on our
41:01 liver to recycle LDL particles. And so
41:02 what happens is these these LPS
41:05 particles are now bound to you know our
41:07 our lipoproteins and our lipoproteins
41:08 are still doing their function right
41:10 they're going around and they're they're
41:12 they're giving you know triglycerides
41:15 and and fatty acids and to some degree
41:17 cholesterol to our cells that need it
41:18 right we're constantly making new cells
41:21 and repairing and we our cells need that
41:23 as they donate triglycerides and fatty
41:25 acids they get smaller in size the
41:27 lipoproteins you probably heard of small
41:28 dense LDL right like that's a very
41:31 dangerous type of LDL article and that's
41:33 one that's kind of been donating along
41:36 getting rid of tro triglycerides and um
41:37 whatever if you think about a train with
41:39 cargo it's donating the you know
41:41 dropping off the cargo and so um when
41:43 it's time to get recycled back into the
41:45 liver what do you know the apo proteins
41:48 obscured by that LPS and it's not
41:52 recycled and so it gets lodged into the
41:56 arterial wall and because there's an LPS
41:59 bound to this you know small dense LDL particle
42:00 particle
42:02 macrofasages which are as you mentioned
42:04 it's like the first line of defense
42:05 against something like a bacterial
42:07 invader right it comes and chews it up
42:09 right gets rid of the problem so
42:11 macrofasages come in because they're
42:13 seeing this signal of LPS and think it's
42:14 a foreign invader when it's actually
42:16 just a small dense LDL particle bound to
42:18 LPS that came from the gut tries to
42:20 engulf it but it can't because it's not
42:23 bacteria and you get the macrofase stuck
42:24 to that
42:27 >> lipoprotein LPS you know complex and you
42:29 get the formation of a foam cell. You
42:31 probably heard of a foam cell. It's the
42:34 beginning of atheroscerosis. And so this
42:38 is where gut health and the food we eat
42:40 is sort of it's linked to cardiovascular
42:42 health, right? Gut permeability, getting
42:44 that LPS into our circulation. It's
42:47 actually not a very good thing because
42:50 you're you're basically, you know, slow
42:52 dripping in that inflam inflammation,
42:53 that inflammatory signal and it's
42:56 wreaking havoc in our arteries, on our
42:59 brain. As many of you know, I've been
43:02 taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now. I
43:04 discovered it way back in 2012, long
43:06 before I ever had a podcast, and I've
43:08 been taking it every day since. The
43:10 reason I started taking it, and the
43:12 reason I still take it, is because AG1
43:14 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality
43:15 and most comprehensive of the
43:17 foundational nutritional supplements on
43:19 the market. It combines vitamins,
43:22 minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and
43:24 adaptogens into a single scoop that's
43:27 easy to drink, and it tastes great. It's
43:28 designed to support things like gut
43:30 health, immune health, and overall
43:32 energy. And it does so by helping to
43:34 fill any gaps you might have in your
43:35 daily nutrition. Now, of course,
43:37 everyone should strive to eat nutritious
43:39 whole foods. I certainly do that every
43:41 day. But I'm often asked, if you could
43:43 take just one supplement, what would
43:44 that supplement be? And my answer is
43:47 always AG1 because it has just been oh
43:49 so critical to supporting all aspects of
43:51 my physical health, mental health, and
43:53 performance. I know this from my own
43:55 experience with AG1 and I continually
43:57 hear this from other people who use AG1
44:00 daily. If you would like to try AG1, you
44:03 can go to drinkag1.com/huberman
44:05 to get a special offer. For a limited
44:08 time, AG1 is giving away six free travel
44:10 packs of AG1 and a bottle of vitamin D3
44:13 K2 with your subscription. Again, that's
44:14 drink AG1 with the numeral one.com/huberman
44:16 one.com/huberman
44:18 to get six free travel packs and a
44:20 bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your
44:22 subscription. Thank you for explaining
44:24 that so clearly because I don't think
44:27 anyone has ever explained how exactly
44:30 gut health is signaling cardiovascular
44:32 health or pushing or pulling down on or
44:35 raising cardiovascular health. As a
44:37 neuro guy, I think about the vagus nerve
44:39 as the primary conduit between gut and
44:42 brain and it I was recalling that LPS
44:43 injected into the gut is how you
44:45 actually experimentally induce a fever
44:48 because the and if you cut the Vegas no
44:50 fever. So there's this there seems to be
44:51 something about the way that the gut
44:53 communicates with with the brain and
44:54 other organs that is critically
44:56 dependent on the uh some threshold level
44:59 of of of LPS. And thank you also for
45:02 reminding us that LPS is present in the
45:03 gut because we have yeast in our gut,
45:05 some amount of of yeast. You mentioned
45:07 tight junctions and the way I think
45:09 about tight junctions, please correct me
45:10 because I'm going to get some or all of
45:12 this wrong, is that essentially uh they
45:15 form like a a cellar fence in the gut
45:17 and that transient opening or partial
45:19 opening of these is a normal process.
45:21 But it sounds like after a meal some
45:23 bacteria when you say leaks out into our
45:24 system, it's literally going into the
45:25 bloodstream. So now we have bacteria
45:27 circulating and if some of that is small
45:29 enough to get across the bloodb brain
45:32 barrier that's another way that bacteria
45:33 can start to cause inflammation at the
45:34 at the brain level.
45:37 >> It's LPS which is like the outer
45:39 component of bacteria that have died.
45:42 >> Um actual live bacteria getting in. I
45:44 don't know as much about that perhaps as
45:46 well, but I know that the LPS is getting
45:50 in and I do know that the LPS, you know,
45:51 activating the immune system and stuff
45:54 and the resident gal cells and stuff in
45:57 the in the brain um does break down the
45:58 bloodb brain barrier. It's like the
46:01 early like we know neuroinflammation
46:04 is really some of the early parts of
46:05 breaking down of the bloodb brain
46:07 barrier which is the early stages of
46:09 neurodeenerative disease. it is how the
46:12 gut is gut health is linked to the brain
46:14 and to neurogenerative disease as well.
46:16 So, um it's the inflammation I think
46:20 that's really um it's it's really
46:22 powerful in terms of it's it's a driver
46:24 of the aging process in general like
46:27 this inflammation inflammaging you've
46:29 you've heard of inflammaging you know I
46:31 think I think now it's pretty clear to
46:35 me that is if you're thinking about the
46:37 molecular events that are leading to
46:38 these hallmarks of aging which lead to
46:42 the phenotypes and you know frailty and
46:44 the diseases right like type two
46:47 diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's disease,
46:49 like go upstream of that and the
46:52 inflammation is at the core of it. And
46:54 so we hear this word inflammation a lot
46:56 and it's like what does it mean? You
46:57 know, and it's a lot it means a lot of
46:59 things. It's not just the gut. The gut
47:01 is a a component of it, but there's
47:04 other things as well, right? I mean, you
47:06 can have stress, um, you know, any
47:08 emotional stress like that can lead to
47:11 inflammation. Um, not getting enough
47:12 sleep, right? There's a lot of things
47:15 that can that can lead to inflammation
47:18 and um so it is kind of an important
47:22 point to think about is is really like
47:24 trying to have your inflammation low,
47:25 right? And how do you do that?
47:26 >> I'm going to take three different
47:28 jumping off points here, all related to
47:30 what you said. So, um don't think I'm a
47:32 random uh subject generator here. We
47:35 will get back to fasting, I promise.
47:38 Lately, you've posted a bit about
47:41 glutamine as a potential tool to perhaps
47:43 buffer the immune system under times of
47:46 stress. I've also been interested in uh
47:49 llutamine as a way to reinforce tight
47:50 junctions in the gut. I don't know if
47:53 that literature is robust or not. I have
47:55 to say I started taking llutamine years
47:57 ago in times when I was working a lot,
47:59 not sleeping enough because someone told
48:02 me it would help me not get sick. And
48:04 indeed, I didn't get sick as much as the
48:06 imaginary control experiment that I
48:08 never got to do. Meaning, I don't know
48:10 if it helped or not, but I continue to
48:12 take uh llutamine uh when I'm feeling
48:14 run down. I take a couple of other
48:16 things, too. But could you tell us about
48:19 how or if or how llutamine is important
48:22 for gut health and if and how elutamine
48:24 might be helpful for reinforcing the
48:27 immune system? There's not a ton of
48:29 evidence in terms of like what's in the
48:31 scientific literature supporting these
48:33 statements, but there is some, you know,
48:34 and it's enough to kind of go, well, I'm
48:36 going to try to maybe experiment with
48:38 it. So, you know, I first became
48:39 interested in in glutamine because when
48:42 I was doing my graduate research, I was
48:44 doing a lot of cancer metabolism studies
48:46 and I would do nutrient withdrawal and I
48:47 would, you know, remove glucose from
48:49 cancer cells and see what would happen.
48:51 And it's like, okay, well, I would get I
48:53 would remove glucose from from, you
48:55 know, lymphoma, cancer cells in the
48:56 petri dish, and a lot of them would die,
48:57 but they wouldn't all die. And it was
48:59 like, why aren't they all dying? Turns
49:01 out, well, they had glutamine there. So,
49:03 glutamine was enough to sustain them.
49:05 Um, and and so glutamine can be
49:07 converted into many things. So,
49:09 glutamine can be an amino acid, right?
49:10 It's amino acid. Glutamine can be
49:15 converted into the um the KB cycle. So
49:17 it can be converted into intermediates
49:18 that are used to make energy by the
49:21 mitochondria and glutamine can be
49:22 converted into glutamate, right?
49:23 Neurotransmitter, right? So there's a
49:25 lot of pathways and different fates for
49:28 glutamine. So I um became interested in
49:29 in that because it was like oh
49:31 glutamine's important for the survival
49:33 of these cancer cells. Um then I was
49:35 doing a lot of activating immune cell
49:38 studies as you know my my graduate
49:40 adviser uh is an immunologist by
49:42 training and so I was also doing that.
49:43 Turns out glutamine was essential for
49:45 the activation of immune cells. So that
49:47 was kind of always in the background of
49:51 my mind. And then in my postto I did my
49:53 postto with Dr. Bruce Ames and my
49:55 colleague Dr. Mark Shaganaga was doing a
49:57 lot of gut work and this is why I know a
49:58 lot about the LPS and the gut like it's
50:00 from him like brilliant guy. He's now a
50:02 photographer, like not in science at
50:04 all, but brilliant guy and did a lot of
50:06 really amazing experiments looking at,
50:09 you know, gut permeability and things
50:11 that can help buffer, you know, gut
50:13 permeability. And one of those things
50:17 were glutamine. So glutamine can get
50:19 converted into these intermediates that
50:21 are used by mitochondria in the gut
50:23 epithelial cells. And so that's like an
50:25 easy source of energy as well for the
50:27 gut. Now, these are all animal studies,
50:28 right? So take it with a grain of salt,
50:32 right? cuz at some point, you know, in
50:34 my in my opinion, animal studies are are
50:36 really important for understanding the
50:39 mechanism behind why things work and we
50:40 need human studies, you know, as well.
50:42 Looking at the totality of evidence is
50:44 important. It's the human studies that
50:45 were lacking. There's not a ton of them
50:48 there. The ones that I have found more
50:51 compelling, um, not necessarily, I mean,
50:53 with the gut health, it's it's, you
50:58 know, it's sparse with humans. um I
51:00 found more compelling with respect to
51:01 glutamine and human studies was the
51:02 immune system. And this is where I
51:04 started putting connecting the dots,
51:05 right? Where I started coming across
51:06 this literature of these endurance
51:09 athletes who do get a higher amount of
51:11 respiratory tract infections, you know,
51:13 like when I mean endurance athletes, I
51:14 mean these guys that are like outr
51:16 running marathons all year. Like they're
51:18 just constantly training for a marathon, right?
51:18 right?
51:20 >> And so they're really like they're
51:23 putting a lot of demand, right?
51:25 energetic expenditure is happening at a
51:28 really high rate. So, um they are
51:29 they're more prone to respiratory
51:30 infections. And there's a few studies
51:32 out there showing that if these athletes
51:34 take a higher dose of glutamine, I think
51:36 it's like 30 grams or something high
51:37 like that, that they had a lower
51:39 incidence of respiratory tract
51:40 infections than ones that weren't doing
51:42 it. And then I went back to my, oh, I
51:43 know that glutamine is really important
51:46 for T- cell activation. And I was like,
51:48 I'm going to take this because being
51:50 being a being a mom and having a child
51:51 that's bringing everything home like a
51:54 vector, you know, you're like desperate.
51:55 You're the experiment.
51:57 >> Yeah. Exactly. And I never used to get
51:59 sick ever. Like I would never get sick.
52:00 And then all of a sudden I was getting
52:01 sick like three times a year and I was
52:02 like, do I have cancer? Like what's
52:04 going on? Like I I literally was like
52:07 worried. Um and and then I started
52:10 taking glutamine. Now, I take it just I
52:12 only take five grams on a daily basis,
52:14 but if if my son's sick, if there's any
52:16 exposure, if it's like during the
52:19 season, if I'm traveling, I go up to 15.
52:20 I go up to 20
52:21 >> at once because it can be a little hard
52:22 on the gut, right?
52:24 >> Not all at once. Not all at once. I
52:26 usually do it like in fives. So, I do
52:28 five grams, five grams, five grams. And,
52:31 you know, I have to with a caveat of I
52:32 do that, but I also take a lot of
52:34 creatine as well. And so, I don't know
52:35 which one or both,
52:38 >> but like I really don't get sick. I'm
52:40 not getting sick and even even if it's
52:41 brought home in my house, I'm not
52:43 getting sick. And maybe it's a placebo
52:44 and you know what, I am a-ok okay with
52:46 that because placebo effect is real as
52:48 long as I'm not getting sick. Um, so I
52:50 do think I think with the glutamine, you
52:51 know, it's not something that I would
52:54 feel comfortable saying that it's
52:55 there's a lot of evidence. It's
52:57 overwhelming and with confidence that
52:58 it's improving gut health and it's
53:00 improving immune, you know, it's going
53:02 to help give your immune cells energy
53:03 particularly if they need to be
53:05 activated, you know, upon exposure to
53:08 any pathogen. But I feel like it's worth
53:10 experimenting with. Um perhaps maybe if
53:12 someone has colon cancer, that would be
53:13 more of a concern because I did mention
53:15 that cancer cells, cancer cells love
53:16 everything, anything that's good for
53:19 you, right? Folate, I mean, if you don't
53:21 have enough folate, you can cause double
53:23 stranded breaks to your DNA which lead
53:24 to mutations that lead to cancer. But if
53:26 you have cancer and you take a bunch of
53:28 folate, you need folate to make new DNA
53:29 and so they like the folate, right? So
53:30 it's like
53:31 >> it's an abnormal growth. So, anything
53:33 that's associated with drug mtor I saw
53:36 the recent study on torine which scared
53:37 a lot of people because torine's in a
53:38 lot of energy drinks but that was an in
53:40 vitro study. Um
53:43 >> yes I was going to ask you know um it is
53:45 there increased cancer risk if you're
53:46 supplementing with glutamine because
53:48 cancer cells like glutamine.
53:50 >> So my personal opinion I'm obviously not
53:52 a medical physician. This is not a
53:55 prescription. It's just my opinion. I I
53:57 personally am not scared of getting
54:00 cancer from taking glutamine.
54:02 If I had a colon tumor and a tumor in my
54:04 colon, the the first site that the
54:06 glutamine is seeing maybe the liver as
54:08 well since that's also the next step.
54:11 But uh barring like having a tumor
54:14 already in my liver or in my colon,
54:16 those would be the only, you know, types
54:17 of situations that I would be worried
54:19 about taking glutamine. I don't think
54:21 it's going to cause cancer. Right now, I
54:22 guess the question is like what if you
54:23 don't know you have?
54:24 >> Well, hopefully the cost will come down
54:26 on whole body MRIs. actually the cost is
54:28 coming down on whole body MRIs that
54:30 hopefully more people are able to get
54:31 those. It's not just such a high-end
54:33 exclusive thing in the near future. Kind
54:35 of like blood draws used to be like like
54:36 panels of blood testing. You only got
54:38 them if you really needed them. Now the
54:41 cost of blood draws is really low, right?
54:41 right?
54:43 >> So hopefully uh people will be more aware.
54:43 aware.
54:46 >> Yeah, I I
54:48 will take a tablespoon of glutamine once
54:49 or twice or three times a day if I'm
54:51 feeling run down. You mentioned being
54:53 exposed to pathogens from vectors of
54:55 different sorts. Before we went on,
54:56 Mike, we were talking about Knack an
55:01 acetylcysteine. Um, I take it once a day
55:03 uh consistently, but I'll take it three
55:05 times a day if I'm traveling a lot
55:07 because I'm around sick people when I
55:09 travel, especially in winter. Um, or if
55:10 I feel like I'm getting run down. And
55:11 there the data are pretty interesting.
55:13 There's at least one study showing that
55:16 it reduced flu transmission um where
55:18 people were deliberately exposed to flu.
55:19 I think it took the number of people
55:21 that contracted flu compared to the
55:23 placebo group somewhere from the high 70%
55:24 70%
55:26 area. I'm don't remember the exact
55:27 number now. We'll put a link to the
55:30 study down to maybe high 20s which is
55:33 pretty impressive. And an ER doc came on
55:36 this podcast uh Roger Schwelt who um and
55:39 said he was a big proponent of of
55:40 analysteine for people that are around
55:41 sick people.
55:44 >> Do you take knack? So my only concern
55:46 with taking on a daily basis is it is a
55:49 pretty powerful antioxidant
55:51 >> and you know
55:54 >> I think that we need to understand like antioxidants
55:55 antioxidants
55:58 and the opposite which should be
56:00 generating oxidation right like
56:02 >> it's not it's not like oxidation is bad
56:05 it's bad when it's constant slow drip
56:08 oxidation that's damaging you know other
56:11 parts of our body DNA proteins lipids
56:13 some oxidation you want like if you're
56:14 exercising right there's a burst of oxidation
56:15 oxidation
56:16 >> to get the adaptation
56:18 >> to get the adaptations and so my concern
56:20 would be for one maybe timing it around
56:22 your exercise so not taking it close to
56:24 when you're exercising and these studies
56:26 come out of you know studies that have
56:28 been done with highdose vitamin E plus
56:30 vitamin C I haven't seen a lot of
56:33 vitamin C studies alone that are
56:35 blunting exercise adaptations there's
56:37 maybe one at a high dose most of the
56:39 time it's vitamin C and vitamin E
56:41 vitamin E alpha tcopherol when I say
56:43 high dose Usually it's 400 IUs. Just to
56:45 give you a reference point, the RDA is
56:47 like 24 IUs or something. So we're talking
56:47 talking
56:50 >> But a supplement can be 200 to 800. So
56:52 it wouldn't be hard to blunt that
56:54 exercise effect by accidentally. Yeah. I
56:56 don't take vitamin E. It spiked my
56:59 prostate specific antigen, which I was
57:01 told is a is a known effect among urologists.
57:01 urologists.
57:03 >> The select trial was done. So the select
57:08 trial was um was looking at selenium and
57:10 vitamin E and if it could slow the
57:11 progression of prostate cancer and it
57:13 turned out that um the opposite was
57:15 found and it was really kind of due to
57:17 this high dose of alpha tcopherol which
57:21 also has other effects of um lowering
57:22 another type of vitamin E in the body
57:24 called gamma tcopherol which is
57:26 anti-inflammatory and I think that has
57:28 something to do with inflammation
57:31 actually can increase the PSA right
57:34 >> so anyways Um, the point here is that
57:37 with Knack, my only concern would be,
57:41 you know, blunting the the oxidation
57:42 that you're getting from beneficial
57:44 because I know you're highly active.
57:45 >> I'm training hard. I don't want my train
57:47 to be shortcircuited from Knack. I'm
57:49 perfectly happy to only take Knack if
57:52 I'm feeling run down or exposed to um
57:54 illnesses around me where I feel like
57:56 that's when I take it, but it's mostly
57:58 because of I wasn't familiar with the
58:00 flu influenza data. That's interesting.
58:02 I was just it's good for lung health too
58:05 like so although if smokers take it I
58:06 think it has the opposite effect where
58:08 again it's like the can the the
58:10 precancerous cells are using it to their
58:12 benefit you know we used to think
58:14 antioxidants oh it's so good you know
58:16 just more more more and it turns out
58:18 it's not the case right like and that's
58:19 why a lot of these other types of
58:22 hormetic stressors or plant
58:24 phytochemicals they're actually
58:25 generating an antioxidant response
58:28 endogenously in our body by activating
58:30 these antioxidant pathways which are so
58:32 much more powerful than what you would
58:33 get from an antioxidant, right? And so
58:35 that's kind of it's not that you don't
58:37 want some antioxidants, it's just like
58:39 you don't want to overdose on taking too
58:42 much knack and too much vitamin C and
58:44 too much vitamin E because there's also
58:46 something called reductive stress. So we
58:48 know about oxidative stress. Oxidative
58:50 stress is when you're, you know, you're
58:52 you're again, you're causing these these
58:55 reactive oxygen species to damage things
58:57 like your DNA, for example, and over
58:59 time eventually that happens in a part
59:01 of the gene that can be encogenic and
59:03 lead to cancer. Well, reductive stress
59:05 is is like the opposite of that. So,
59:08 it's like too much of the um reducing
59:10 equivalents like the, you know, the
59:13 NADH, the NADPH, the you know, so and it
59:15 also has negative effects. So you kind
59:17 of don't want to go too far on either
59:19 ends of the of the spectrum, but also
59:21 you want to instead of having this like
59:25 slow leaking effect of these prooxidants
59:27 where that are happening from eating a
59:29 bad diet, from you know inflammation,
59:30 things like that. You want it to be a
59:32 short burst where you switch it on, you
59:34 have the adaptation, it's off, right?
59:36 And the adaptation the adaptation
59:38 happens in the recovery period, right?
59:39 When you're, for example, if you
59:41 exercise, that's a big burst of reactive
59:43 oxygen species that is beneficial and
59:44 you want it, right? And you don't want
59:47 to blunt those adaptations. And so
59:49 that's that's kind of my concern with
59:50 daily dosing of Knack.
59:52 >> Great. I don't cold plunge in the 6 to8
59:55 hours after uh resistance training for
59:56 exactly the reason you're talking about.
59:57 Yeah. I want the inflammation. I want
59:58 the increased blood flow. I don't want
60:00 to short circuit that. I'm perfectly happy to only take Knack under
60:02 happy to only take Knack under conditions where I'm bit run down and
60:04 conditions where I'm bit run down and and that's also when I I'll take
60:06 and that's also when I I'll take glutamine. If you take llutamine
60:08 glutamine. If you take llutamine regularly, I I personally observe that I
60:11 regularly, I I personally observe that I get stronger um at a steady state of of
60:14 get stronger um at a steady state of of starch intake. And I don't like dropping
60:16 starch intake. And I don't like dropping starches too low because I get weak.
60:18 starches too low because I get weak. >> Yeah.
60:18 >> Yeah. >> And I also can't sleep as well if my
60:20 >> And I also can't sleep as well if my starches are too low. I just am too
60:23 starches are too low. I just am too wired.
60:24 wired. >> Yeah. There's a there was a new study on
60:25 >> Yeah. There's a there was a new study on on eating starches and improving sleep.
60:28 on eating starches and improving sleep. >> Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that
60:30 >> Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that because for several years I talked about
60:31 because for several years I talked about that on the podcast and people said,
60:32 that on the podcast and people said, "Oh, you know, he's gorging himself with
60:34 "Oh, you know, he's gorging himself with pasta and then passing out and that's
60:35 pasta and then passing out and that's the worst time." I wasn't saying that.
60:37 the worst time." I wasn't saying that. I'm saying that if you're not if you're
60:40 I'm saying that if you're not if you're running like crazy, I'll hear from
60:41 running like crazy, I'll hear from marathoners and ultra people when people
60:43 marathoners and ultra people when people are doing a million things. They'll say,
60:44 are doing a million things. They'll say, "I'm not sleeping well." And they're
60:46 "I'm not sleeping well." And they're exercising like crazy. It's like, "Well,
60:47 exercising like crazy. It's like, "Well, when was the last time you had a bowl of
60:48 when was the last time you had a bowl of pasta?" Like, "Oh, no. I don't eat
60:50 pasta?" Like, "Oh, no. I don't eat pasta." And they're like, and then
60:51 pasta." And they're like, and then they'll have some rice or some pasta.
60:53 they'll have some rice or some pasta. Like, oh, I slept like a baby. And they
60:55 Like, oh, I slept like a baby. And they were having it at lunch. Yeah. And I
60:57 were having it at lunch. Yeah. And I just think that the the brain doesn't
60:58 just think that the the brain doesn't shut down well when you have high levels
61:00 shut down well when you have high levels of cortisol. And the cortisol starch
61:02 of cortisol. And the cortisol starch thing is an interesting one. I'm so glad
61:04 thing is an interesting one. I'm so glad you brought this up because I think um
61:06 you brought this up because I think um this is something I did want to talk
61:08 this is something I did want to talk about really and it has to do with stop
61:10 about really and it has to do with stop eating 3 hours before bed for that very
61:12 eating 3 hours before bed for that very reason. So there was a new even a new
61:14 reason. So there was a new even a new stud but there's been several studies
61:15 stud but there's been several studies now really showing that this is
61:17 now really showing that this is important for that cardiovascular reset
61:20 important for that cardiovascular reset right your parasympathetic activity is
61:22 right your parasympathetic activity is supposed to go higher. You're in your
61:23 supposed to go higher. You're in your rest and recovery phase, right? When
61:26 rest and recovery phase, right? When you're eating food, that's the
61:28 you're eating food, that's the sympathetic activity, right? You're
61:30 sympathetic activity, right? You're that's activating the sympathetic
61:31 that's activating the sympathetic nervous system
61:32 nervous system >> as you're eating. Yeah.
61:33 >> as you're eating. Yeah. >> Yeah. And even as you're digesting. So,
61:35 >> Yeah. And even as you're digesting. So, you have to think about it like you
61:36 you have to think about it like you digest what it takes like five or so
61:38 digest what it takes like five or so hours to fully finish about depending on
61:40 hours to fully finish about depending on the meal.
61:41 the meal. >> Depending on the meal, right? So if
61:43 >> Depending on the meal, right? So if you're eating, you know, right before
61:44 you're eating, you know, right before you go to bed, you are you are you are
61:46 you go to bed, you are you are you are not in that parasymp sympathetic
61:48 not in that parasymp sympathetic activity, you know, part of the part of
61:51 activity, you know, part of the part of the, you know, cycle that you want to be
61:52 the, you know, cycle that you want to be in. So um there was a new even a new
61:55 in. So um there was a new even a new study that I shared like I don't know a
61:57 study that I shared like I don't know a couple days ago even showing that if you
62:00 couple days ago even showing that if you stop eating 3 hours before bed. So these
62:03 stop eating 3 hours before bed. So these people were actually um it's interesting
62:04 people were actually um it's interesting there they had their blood pressure
62:07 there they had their blood pressure measured for starting in the mid
62:10 measured for starting in the mid afternoon all the way throughout the
62:11 afternoon all the way throughout the night. This is the first study that
62:12 night. This is the first study that really not just one end point looking at
62:14 really not just one end point looking at blood pressure but just me measuring it
62:15 blood pressure but just me measuring it continuously I don't know if it was
62:16 continuously I don't know if it was every 15 minutes or something like that
62:18 every 15 minutes or something like that but um it was found that their during
62:21 but um it was found that their during sleep if they had stopped eating 3 hours
62:24 sleep if they had stopped eating 3 hours before bed versus the group that did not
62:25 before bed versus the group that did not stop eating 3 hours before bed their
62:28 stop eating 3 hours before bed their blood pressure dipped like lower. So you
62:30 blood pressure dipped like lower. So you get that you that barrerow reflex
62:32 get that you that barrerow reflex dipping right? So this is like part of
62:33 dipping right? So this is like part of the parasympathetic activation as you
62:35 the parasympathetic activation as you know very important for you the blood
62:37 know very important for you the blood pressure to go down. heart rate went
62:39 pressure to go down. heart rate went down like you know much much lower and
62:43 down like you know much much lower and that reset is so so important for
62:45 that reset is so so important for cardiovascular health. I think what was
62:46 cardiovascular health. I think what was found was it was something like um
62:49 found was it was something like um translated to like 20% lower risk of
62:52 translated to like 20% lower risk of cardiovascular events like heart
62:53 cardiovascular events like heart attacks. So it's really pretty
62:55 attacks. So it's really pretty significant. Yeah. And it really is an
62:57 significant. Yeah. And it really is an easy thing to do to think about stopping
62:59 easy thing to do to think about stopping eating you know 3 hours before you go to
63:02 eating you know 3 hours before you go to bed. Like that's that's something I
63:03 bed. Like that's that's something I think that is not that hard to implement
63:06 think that is not that hard to implement and it will improve your sleep as well
63:08 and it will improve your sleep as well as your cardiovascular health. Although
63:10 as your cardiovascular health. Although I think in that study I don't know that
63:11 I think in that study I don't know that sleep was really it was subjective and I
63:13 sleep was really it was subjective and I don't think it really was improved more
63:15 don't think it really was improved more but other studies have found that as
63:16 but other studies have found that as well that sleep does improve. I know
63:18 well that sleep does improve. I know Satchin Panda he's been on my podcast
63:20 Satchin Panda he's been on my podcast your podcast he's had studies showing
63:21 your podcast he's had studies showing that it seemed like stop stop eating
63:24 that it seemed like stop stop eating three hours before bed really does seem
63:25 three hours before bed really does seem to improve sleep. But this
63:27 to improve sleep. But this parasympathetic activation, you know,
63:30 parasympathetic activation, you know, you don't want to have a meal right
63:31 you don't want to have a meal right before your bed because you want you
63:33 before your bed because you want you want to be in the rest and recovery
63:34 want to be in the rest and recovery part, right?
63:35 part, right? >> So,
63:36 >> So, >> yeah, I think people hear uh and I
63:39 >> yeah, I think people hear uh and I understand why the nomenclature and the
63:41 understand why the nomenclature and the buzzwords of, you know, fight or flight
63:43 buzzwords of, you know, fight or flight for sympathetic and rest and digest for
63:44 for sympathetic and rest and digest for parasympathetic, but yeah, the evidence
63:47 parasympathetic, but yeah, the evidence shows eating stimulates the sympathetic
63:49 shows eating stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. It's not a stress event,
63:51 nervous system. It's not a stress event, but it it's a
63:52 but it it's a >> it requires energy. Anything that
63:53 >> it requires energy. Anything that requires energy raises body temperature
63:55 requires energy raises body temperature and your body's doing work.
63:56 and your body's doing work. >> It's an awake event. It's an you don't
63:59 >> It's an awake event. It's an you don't put it while you're sleeping.
64:00 put it while you're sleeping. >> Yeah. And that's why these phrases,
64:02 >> Yeah. And that's why these phrases, while I don't demonize anyone for
64:03 while I don't demonize anyone for creating the, you know, fight or flight.
64:06 creating the, you know, fight or flight. Well, I mean, there's ways that you want
64:07 Well, I mean, there's ways that you want your sympathetic nervous system to
64:08 your sympathetic nervous system to activate that are not about fight or
64:10 activate that are not about fight or flight. Like I actually think if people
64:11 flight. Like I actually think if people just got the first hour of their day
64:13 just got the first hour of their day more active and energized, bright light,
64:15 more active and energized, bright light, exercise, caffeine if you're me and Lord
64:18 exercise, caffeine if you're me and Lord knows I'm grateful that caffeine exists
64:19 knows I'm grateful that caffeine exists in the first hour of the day or first
64:22 in the first hour of the day or first hours if you can't manage that because
64:23 hours if you can't manage that because of schedule and then the last hour of
64:25 of schedule and then the last hour of the day was strongly parasympathetic. I
64:27 the day was strongly parasympathetic. I mean everything would get better without
64:29 mean everything would get better without having to think a ton about exactly how
64:32 having to think a ton about exactly how you're doing that because on a given day
64:33 you're doing that because on a given day you just do what you can
64:34 you just do what you can >> and that's what you want, right? I mean
64:36 >> and that's what you want, right? I mean so cortisol is circadian dependent as
64:38 so cortisol is circadian dependent as you know. I mean, in the like early
64:40 you know. I mean, in the like early morning of early hours of the morning,
64:43 morning of early hours of the morning, that's when you want it to peak, right?
64:44 that's when you want it to peak, right? The part of the awakening response, like
64:46 The part of the awakening response, like you want it to go up. And it's it's
64:48 you want it to go up. And it's it's interesting. I I the reason I'm going on
64:51 interesting. I I the reason I'm going on this is because it's a little bit of a
64:52 this is because it's a little bit of a um soap box for me, but so with with the
64:55 um soap box for me, but so with with the with the cortisol activation, um people
64:59 with the cortisol activation, um people don't realize this, you know, obviously
65:00 don't realize this, you know, obviously it's a hormone and it's binding to two
65:03 it's a hormone and it's binding to two different receptors. There's the
65:04 different receptors. There's the gluccocorticoid receptor and then
65:06 gluccocorticoid receptor and then there's the mineral ocorticoid receptor.
65:08 there's the mineral ocorticoid receptor. And both of those um when cortisol binds
65:11 And both of those um when cortisol binds to it, they go into the nucleus of the
65:12 to it, they go into the nucleus of the cell and they're changing the
65:15 cell and they're changing the expression. So they're activating genes
65:17 expression. So they're activating genes and deactivating genes like 20% of the
65:19 and deactivating genes like 20% of the human genome. It's a large percentage,
65:21 human genome. It's a large percentage, right? And this is on multiple different
65:23 right? And this is on multiple different organs. So it's it cortisol has a very
65:26 organs. So it's it cortisol has a very important role and you want that peak.
65:28 important role and you want that peak. You want that spike, right? That's what
65:30 You want that spike, right? That's what you want. And then you want it to shut
65:31 you want. And then you want it to shut off. And there are things that can
65:32 off. And there are things that can activate it obviously like in the
65:34 activate it obviously like in the morning going out bright light exposure
65:35 morning going out bright light exposure as you mentioned like that's very
65:37 as you mentioned like that's very important for that cortisol awakening
65:38 important for that cortisol awakening response but you can also like like
65:41 response but you can also like like intensity intense exercise can switch it
65:43 intensity intense exercise can switch it on. Um, but what's interesting and so
65:45 on. Um, but what's interesting and so can intermittent fasting
65:48 can intermittent fasting that it what's interesting is there's
65:49 that it what's interesting is there's studies from Mark Matson's lab showing
65:52 studies from Mark Matson's lab showing that you know the types of of of
65:56 that you know the types of of of stressors that are beneficial these
65:57 stressors that are beneficial these hormatic stressors like exercise like
66:00 hormatic stressors like exercise like you know intermittent fasting um perhaps
66:02 you know intermittent fasting um perhaps even cold exposure like these types of
66:05 even cold exposure like these types of exposures change the receptor density of
66:08 exposures change the receptor density of the receptors. So if you if you look at
66:10 the receptors. So if you if you look at what activates cortisol in a negative
66:12 what activates cortisol in a negative way, chronic stress, let's say
66:14 way, chronic stress, let's say emotional, financial, psychological, um
66:17 emotional, financial, psychological, um chronic sleep deprivation, right? That
66:18 chronic sleep deprivation, right? That bad type of stress, you're getting
66:20 bad type of stress, you're getting you're not getting a big spike, you're
66:21 you're not getting a big spike, you're getting a slow drip of it. And so what
66:24 getting a slow drip of it. And so what happens is when you have that type of
66:25 happens is when you have that type of stress, you're increasing the
66:26 stress, you're increasing the gluccocorticoid receptors and you're
66:28 gluccocorticoid receptors and you're decreasing the minocorticoid receptors.
66:31 decreasing the minocorticoid receptors. There's a different biological response
66:33 There's a different biological response in the brain, in the hypothalamus, but
66:35 in the brain, in the hypothalamus, but also in, you know, other organs as well
66:38 also in, you know, other organs as well when you're when you're activating
66:40 when you're when you're activating cortisol through a beneficial type of
66:41 cortisol through a beneficial type of stress, the hormatic stressors like like
66:43 stress, the hormatic stressors like like intermittent fasting, like exercise. Um,
66:46 intermittent fasting, like exercise. Um, I believe probably deliberate cold
66:47 I believe probably deliberate cold exposure as well where um it's a
66:50 exposure as well where um it's a different biological response. And also,
66:52 different biological response. And also, if you think about it, you know, you
66:54 if you think about it, you know, you actually want cortisol to do its, you
66:57 actually want cortisol to do its, you know, function. You want it to change
66:58 know, function. You want it to change the expression of that's what it's
66:59 the expression of that's what it's supposed to do, right? The problem is is
67:01 supposed to do, right? The problem is is when you have that slow drip, then you
67:04 when you have that slow drip, then you know, not only are you're you're
67:05 know, not only are you're you're increasing they're changing the
67:06 increasing they're changing the receptor, you know, activation, but also
67:09 receptor, you know, activation, but also they become resistant to the cortisol
67:10 they become resistant to the cortisol and so you're not getting the benefits.
67:12 and so you're not getting the benefits. You know, cortisol represses
67:14 You know, cortisol represses inflammation, right? It's it suppresses
67:16 inflammation, right? It's it suppresses the immune system, but like so you're
67:17 the immune system, but like so you're not getting that anti-inflammatory
67:19 not getting that anti-inflammatory effect from cortisol. It's being
67:20 effect from cortisol. It's being disregulated. And that's what you don't
67:22 disregulated. And that's what you don't want. You don't want cortisol to be
67:23 want. You don't want cortisol to be disregulated in terms of like the genes
67:26 disregulated in terms of like the genes that it's supposed to activate or
67:27 that it's supposed to activate or deactivate. You want it to be doing what
67:29 deactivate. You want it to be doing what it's supposed to. It's supposed to
67:30 it's supposed to. It's supposed to regulate. We're supposed to have the
67:31 regulate. We're supposed to have the cortisol, you know, activation response.
67:33 cortisol, you know, activation response. So, um, anyways, I that's something that
67:36 So, um, anyways, I that's something that I kind of want to clear in people's
67:38 I kind of want to clear in people's minds because I feel like a lot of
67:39 minds because I feel like a lot of people get worried about, oh my gosh,
67:41 people get worried about, oh my gosh, I'm doing, you know, HIT and it's
67:43 I'm doing, you know, HIT and it's activating my cortisol. Well, that's
67:45 activating my cortisol. Well, that's fine. It's like, you know, I mean, I
67:47 fine. It's like, you know, I mean, I guess if you do too much HIT, right, you
67:49 guess if you do too much HIT, right, you can always take something to the
67:50 can always take something to the extreme. Okay, with that caveat,
67:51 extreme. Okay, with that caveat, obviously I'm not talking about that,
67:53 obviously I'm not talking about that, >> but with that caveat, like you do you
67:55 >> but with that caveat, like you do you you want your body to be able to turn it
67:57 you want your body to be able to turn it on and then turn it off and have the
67:59 on and then turn it off and have the adaptation, have the response, right?
68:01 adaptation, have the response, right? And like I said, it's a different
68:02 And like I said, it's a different biological response than than the
68:05 biological response than than the chronic type of cortisol activation that
68:07 chronic type of cortisol activation that you get with the bad types of stress.
68:09 you get with the bad types of stress. >> Yeah, I guess same goes for intermittent
68:11 >> Yeah, I guess same goes for intermittent fasting. And maybe you could share with
68:12 fasting. And maybe you could share with us what your intermittent fasting
68:14 us what your intermittent fasting protocol is. I know that recently
68:16 protocol is. I know that recently cortisol has been like increasingly
68:18 cortisol has been like increasingly demonized as the stress hormone stress
68:20 demonized as the stress hormone stress hormone and people saw pictures of
68:22 hormone and people saw pictures of people with Cushings disease which is
68:24 people with Cushings disease which is you know a drastically elevated cortisol
68:26 you know a drastically elevated cortisol and the moon face and the excessive
68:28 and the moon face and the excessive visceral fat and and this this sort of
68:31 visceral fat and and this this sort of um fearmongering around cortisol was
68:34 um fearmongering around cortisol was particularly directed toward women and
68:36 particularly directed toward women and this entered the health fitness space
68:39 this entered the health fitness space because I think in an appropriate way
68:41 because I think in an appropriate way I'll just be very direct here I don't
68:43 I'll just be very direct here I don't like I no longer tap dance around who
68:44 like I no longer tap dance around who said, you know what, in a very
68:45 said, you know what, in a very appropriate way, um, that I appreciate,
68:48 appropriate way, um, that I appreciate, uh, Dr. Stacy Sims came on the podcast
68:50 uh, Dr. Stacy Sims came on the podcast and she said, "Listen, some women
68:52 and she said, "Listen, some women shouldn't train fasted because they
68:55 shouldn't train fasted because they don't feel well when they train fasted
68:57 don't feel well when they train fasted and their cortisol is too high and so
68:59 and their cortisol is too high and so forth." That captured a lot of people's
69:02 forth." That captured a lot of people's experience. A lot of women in
69:04 experience. A lot of women in particular, but some men certainly were
69:06 particular, but some men certainly were like, "Yes, oh my god, thank you. Thank
69:08 like, "Yes, oh my god, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you." But then the
69:10 you. Thank you. Thank you." But then the they the message got contorted, right?
69:13 they the message got contorted, right? as it does, right? And then it became
69:15 as it does, right? And then it became women shouldn't train fasted. And then
69:17 women shouldn't train fasted. And then we had Lauren Keno Simple on this
69:19 we had Lauren Keno Simple on this podcast who's a, you know, trained as a
69:21 podcast who's a, you know, trained as a PhD. She has a background in nutrition,
69:23 PhD. She has a background in nutrition, physiology, strength training coach,
69:24 physiology, strength training coach, etc. And she said, "No, listen, you can
69:26 etc. And she said, "No, listen, you can train fasted or not fasted as a woman or
69:28 train fasted or not fasted as a woman or a man. It's kind of your preference, but
69:30 a man. It's kind of your preference, but that we don't need to fear these
69:31 that we don't need to fear these cortisol spikes." And forgive me for
69:32 cortisol spikes." And forgive me for going long here, but I think it is
69:34 going long here, but I think it is important that people hear this um
69:35 important that people hear this um again, which is there's also this idea
69:38 again, which is there's also this idea that deliberate cold exposure increases
69:40 that deliberate cold exposure increases cortisol, but when you look at the data,
69:42 cortisol, but when you look at the data, it definitely increases adrenaline.
69:44 it definitely increases adrenaline. Yeah.
69:44 Yeah. >> And peripheral dopamine and probably,
69:46 >> And peripheral dopamine and probably, I'll go on record, it probably central
69:48 I'll go on record, it probably central dopamine, although we don't have as good
69:50 dopamine, although we don't have as good evidence for that yet,
69:51 evidence for that yet, >> but there evidence points to the fact
69:54 >> but there evidence points to the fact that deliberate cold exposure lowers
69:56 that deliberate cold exposure lowers cortisol. So this then you know because
70:00 cortisol. So this then you know because and again I think Stacy appropriately
70:02 and again I think Stacy appropriately said a lot of women who want to use cold
70:04 said a lot of women who want to use cold shouldn't go as cold but the message got
70:07 shouldn't go as cold but the message got contorted and it became women shouldn't
70:10 contorted and it became women shouldn't do deliberate cold exposure because of
70:12 do deliberate cold exposure because of the cortisol increase. And so part of
70:14 the cortisol increase. And so part of the reason I'm going long here is I'm
70:15 the reason I'm going long here is I'm trying to correct the narrative on her
70:16 trying to correct the narrative on her behalf. She said do what works for you,
70:19 behalf. She said do what works for you, right? And that's what Lauren's saying
70:21 right? And that's what Lauren's saying and I'm guessing um that's what you'll
70:22 and I'm guessing um that's what you'll say as well. Um, but I just need to get
70:24 say as well. Um, but I just need to get that out there because the message has
70:26 that out there because the message has gotten totally pretzel twisted up and
70:29 gotten totally pretzel twisted up and cortisol is neither good nor bad. You
70:31 cortisol is neither good nor bad. You want it high in the morning, you want it
70:32 want it high in the morning, you want it low at night. Um, in general, um, it
70:35 low at night. Um, in general, um, it sounds like you train fasted.
70:37 sounds like you train fasted. >> I listen to how I feel. That's exactly
70:39 >> I listen to how I feel. That's exactly what I do. So, what what your podcast
70:42 what I do. So, what what your podcast guest and and the researchers are
70:43 guest and and the researchers are talking about is exactly. There are
70:45 talking about is exactly. There are times when I wake up in the morning and
70:47 times when I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I need to eat something before
70:49 I'm like, I need to eat something before I work out
70:50 I work out >> and I do. Um, but I oftentimes do train
70:54 >> and I do. Um, but I oftentimes do train fasted one because I am practicing
70:56 fasted one because I am practicing intermittent fasting again. But I do it
70:58 intermittent fasting again. But I do it I'm not like starving myself. And like I
71:00 I'm not like starving myself. And like I said, the reason there's multiple
71:01 said, the reason there's multiple reasons I do it. One reason is because
71:03 reasons I do it. One reason is because it really did help me lose the belly
71:05 it really did help me lose the belly fat, which is the visceral fat, which is
71:07 fat, which is the visceral fat, which is like the worst kind of fat you can have.
71:09 like the worst kind of fat you can have. And we can talk more about that. Um, but
71:11 And we can talk more about that. Um, but the second reason is I love the
71:13 the second reason is I love the cognitive benefits I have in the morning
71:14 cognitive benefits I have in the morning with it. And it's the main reason I do
71:16 with it. And it's the main reason I do it. And so there are many times what I
71:18 it. And so there are many times what I do train fasted, but I am not out
71:19 do train fasted, but I am not out running 15 miles. Most of my my like I
71:23 running 15 miles. Most of my my like I said my sessions are about an hour long.
71:25 said my sessions are about an hour long. And am I taking a little bit of a
71:27 And am I taking a little bit of a performance hit with the high intensity?
71:29 performance hit with the high intensity? Probably. Probably yes. But it's not
71:32 Probably. Probably yes. But it's not much to matter for me. And you do burn a
71:35 much to matter for me. And you do burn a little bit more fat if you train fasted.
71:37 little bit more fat if you train fasted. I mean that's known. Um you will if it
71:39 I mean that's known. Um you will if it is a longer session, you will take an
71:41 is a longer session, you will take an performance enhancement hit. That is
71:43 performance enhancement hit. That is also known, right? So, I think it really
71:45 also known, right? So, I think it really does come down to like what is your
71:47 does come down to like what is your goal? How do you feel? And and then you
71:51 goal? How do you feel? And and then you kind of go with that. And I I completely
71:52 kind of go with that. And I I completely agree. Like there are times when, you
71:55 agree. Like there are times when, you know, I'm on my cycle and I feel fine
71:57 know, I'm on my cycle and I feel fine and I'm working out just fine. And there
71:59 and I'm working out just fine. And there are time other times that I'm like I
72:00 are time other times that I'm like I don't feel good. Like I'm going to I'm
72:02 don't feel good. Like I'm going to I'm going to take it easier. I still train.
72:04 going to take it easier. I still train. I just you listen to your body. And I
72:06 I just you listen to your body. And I that's a pretty easy
72:08 that's a pretty easy >> I think rule of thumb.
72:10 >> I think rule of thumb. >> Sometimes people like to complicate
72:11 >> Sometimes people like to complicate things. You know, I don't there's lots
72:13 things. You know, I don't there's lots of reasons why. I don't we don't need to
72:14 of reasons why. I don't we don't need to get into that.
72:15 get into that. >> I have theories. Yeah, I have theories,
72:16 >> I have theories. Yeah, I have theories, but they're not important right now.
72:18 but they're not important right now. >> No, it's not important. Yeah. So, so
72:19 >> No, it's not important. Yeah. So, so yeah, I do I do train fasted and it is
72:22 yeah, I do I do train fasted and it is um for me it is helped me tremendously
72:25 um for me it is helped me tremendously change my body composition. Like I said,
72:26 change my body composition. Like I said, I'm in a different part of my life than
72:28 I'm in a different part of my life than perhaps a 30-year-old woman is, right?
72:30 perhaps a 30-year-old woman is, right? So, when I was 30, I mean, like I I
72:32 So, when I was 30, I mean, like I I didn't have to train fasted. It was it
72:34 didn't have to train fasted. It was it was it was easy to keep, you know, the
72:37 was it was easy to keep, you know, the the belly fat, the visceral fat lower.
72:39 the belly fat, the visceral fat lower. Um, hormonal changes are do play a role
72:42 Um, hormonal changes are do play a role in the way your body, so estrogen plays
72:44 in the way your body, so estrogen plays a role in telling your body how to store
72:46 a role in telling your body how to store fat. So subcutaneous fat would be the
72:48 fat. So subcutaneous fat would be the kind of fat that you can just like
72:49 kind of fat that you can just like pinch, right? The the fat that we see.
72:52 pinch, right? The the fat that we see. The visceral fat, that's that deep fat
72:55 The visceral fat, that's that deep fat that's lining your organs. It's often
72:57 that's lining your organs. It's often belly fat, you know, and it's lining the
73:00 belly fat, you know, and it's lining the intestines, the liver, you know, it's
73:02 intestines, the liver, you know, it's it's it's it's an it's almost like an
73:04 it's it's it's an it's almost like an endocrine organ. I mean, because it is
73:06 endocrine organ. I mean, because it is secretreting hormones. It's secretreting
73:08 secretreting hormones. It's secretreting inflammatory factors. It's metabolically
73:10 inflammatory factors. It's metabolically active. It's constantly breaking down
73:12 active. It's constantly breaking down triglycerides. It's associated with
73:14 triglycerides. It's associated with double the increased risk double the
73:16 double the increased risk double the risk of early death. Um people that have
73:18 risk of early death. Um people that have high visceral fat have 44% higher chance
73:21 high visceral fat have 44% higher chance of having cancer. Many different types
73:22 of having cancer. Many different types of cancers.
73:23 of cancers. >> Wow.
73:23 >> Wow. >> It's huge. It's huge. You know, and and
73:26 >> It's huge. It's huge. You know, and and of course insulin resistance is the
73:27 of course insulin resistance is the number one problem with visceral fat,
73:29 number one problem with visceral fat, right? And I'd love to to talk about
73:31 right? And I'd love to to talk about that, but um if you want I mean we can
73:34 that, but um if you want I mean we can we can get into that. Yeah. It's it's so
73:36 we can get into that. Yeah. It's it's so with the visceral fat and like I said,
73:37 with the visceral fat and like I said, you know, visceral fat is something if
73:39 you know, visceral fat is something if you really directly want to measure it,
73:41 you really directly want to measure it, you do a DEXA scan. But you know, for
73:43 you do a DEXA scan. But you know, for the average person that isn't going to
73:45 the average person that isn't going to go out and do a DEXA scan, waist
73:47 go out and do a DEXA scan, waist circumference is a proxy. It's used in a
73:49 circumference is a proxy. It's used in a lot of studies. So women that have a
73:51 lot of studies. So women that have a waist circumference of 35 in or above
73:54 waist circumference of 35 in or above are considered to have a higher amount
73:55 are considered to have a higher amount of visceral fat. Men that have a waist
73:57 of visceral fat. Men that have a waist circumference of 40 in or above are
73:59 circumference of 40 in or above are considered to have higher amount of
74:00 considered to have higher amount of visceral fat. It's also that belly fat.
74:02 visceral fat. It's also that belly fat. like you can you can you just know right
74:05 like you can you can you just know right um interestingly like 70% of women over
74:08 um interestingly like 70% of women over the age of 50 have high visceral fat 50%
74:11 the age of 50 have high visceral fat 50% of men over the age of 50 do you know
74:14 of men over the age of 50 do you know again coming down to women go through
74:16 again coming down to women go through menopause estrogen plays an important
74:19 menopause estrogen plays an important role in telling the body you know to
74:21 role in telling the body you know to store the fat subcutaneously rather than
74:24 store the fat subcutaneously rather than viscerally deep around organs and so as
74:26 viscerally deep around organs and so as women transition to pmenopause you know
74:29 women transition to pmenopause you know the years before menopause and menopause
74:32 the years before menopause and menopause it their estrogen goes down and that
74:34 it their estrogen goes down and that does change the way the body stores fat.
74:36 does change the way the body stores fat. And any woman that's going through
74:38 And any woman that's going through either of those stages knows it. And
74:41 either of those stages knows it. And it's also why you see often women over
74:43 it's also why you see often women over the age of 50 with more belly fat,
74:45 the age of 50 with more belly fat, right? I mean, that's something that I
74:46 right? I mean, that's something that I think it's it's hard to deny, but um
74:50 think it's it's hard to deny, but um it's it's one of the reasons why I kind
74:53 it's it's one of the reasons why I kind of went back to practicing intermittent
74:55 of went back to practicing intermittent fasting because there's a there's a
74:57 fasting because there's a there's a couple of ways that you can really
74:58 couple of ways that you can really powerfully lose visceral fat. and one of
75:01 powerfully lose visceral fat. and one of them is doing aerobic exercise,
75:03 them is doing aerobic exercise, high-intensity interval training also
75:05 high-intensity interval training also really powerfully can do it, but also
75:07 really powerfully can do it, but also being in a caloric deficit. And I think
75:08 being in a caloric deficit. And I think when you start to get the combination of
75:10 when you start to get the combination of both, that's what really worked for me.
75:13 both, that's what really worked for me. It's crazy how quickly you can gain it
75:15 It's crazy how quickly you can gain it based on your diet as well. So, it is
75:19 based on your diet as well. So, it is different from the subcutaneous fat in
75:21 different from the subcutaneous fat in many ways. I mentioned it's secretreting
75:23 many ways. I mentioned it's secretreting these inflammatory molecules. It's, you
75:26 these inflammatory molecules. It's, you know, hormones, but it's also constantly
75:29 know, hormones, but it's also constantly breaking down triglycerides into free
75:31 breaking down triglycerides into free fatty acids. And the location of it is
75:33 fatty acids. And the location of it is very dangerous because it's right
75:35 very dangerous because it's right surrounding the liver, right? It's this
75:37 surrounding the liver, right? It's this deep organ fat. And that's very close to
75:40 deep organ fat. And that's very close to the portal vein. And so, you're
75:41 the portal vein. And so, you're constantly getting this sort of
75:43 constantly getting this sort of mainlinining free fatty acids to the
75:45 mainlinining free fatty acids to the liver. And visceral fat is very
75:47 liver. And visceral fat is very different from subcutaneous fat because
75:50 different from subcutaneous fat because it doesn't respond to insulin like
75:52 it doesn't respond to insulin like subcutaneous fat does. In other words,
75:54 subcutaneous fat does. In other words, when you have a meal, you eat a
75:55 when you have a meal, you eat a carbohydrate meal and you basically your
75:58 carbohydrate meal and you basically your body increases insulin to help take it
76:00 body increases insulin to help take it up glucose into your liver uh muscle
76:03 up glucose into your liver uh muscle atapost tissue. Lipolysis shuts down,
76:05 atapost tissue. Lipolysis shuts down, right? It's like, okay, no longer am I
76:06 right? It's like, okay, no longer am I going to break down these fats. It's
76:08 going to break down these fats. It's time to use this energy, right? Visceral
76:10 time to use this energy, right? Visceral fat doesn't respond to insulin. So, it
76:12 fat doesn't respond to insulin. So, it just keeps going, right? And these free
76:14 just keeps going, right? And these free fatty acids because they're going right
76:15 fatty acids because they're going right to the liver, uh it's it's essentially
76:18 to the liver, uh it's it's essentially antagonizing the insulin receptors. So,
76:21 antagonizing the insulin receptors. So, it causes insulin receptors to become
76:24 it causes insulin receptors to become more resistant to insulin. And this is
76:27 more resistant to insulin. And this is part of why people with high visceral
76:30 part of why people with high visceral fat, by the way, you can gain visceral
76:32 fat, by the way, you can gain visceral fat without gaining a pound. And we can
76:35 fat without gaining a pound. And we can talk about those studies like people
76:36 talk about those studies like people people are skinny and can have high
76:39 people are skinny and can have high amounts of visceral fat. You've you've
76:41 amounts of visceral fat. You've you've heard of like lean metabolically
76:42 heard of like lean metabolically unhealthy but lean individuals. Those
76:45 unhealthy but lean individuals. Those people exist. And so you can have a high
76:47 people exist. And so you can have a high amount of visceral fat but not really
76:50 amount of visceral fat but not really look like you do. So um when you know
76:53 look like you do. So um when you know obviously the insulin resistance is a
76:55 obviously the insulin resistance is a problem for many reasons but it also
76:58 problem for many reasons but it also plays a role in those energy crashes
77:01 plays a role in those energy crashes that you experience right and that's
77:02 that you experience right and that's kind of like some of the first signs of
77:05 kind of like some of the first signs of insulin resistance actually have to do
77:06 insulin resistance actually have to do with what you're feeling. We talked
77:07 with what you're feeling. We talked about lethargy, right? So, you know, the
77:10 about lethargy, right? So, you know, the inflammation that's being generated from
77:12 inflammation that's being generated from these this visceral fat constantly
77:14 these this visceral fat constantly making these, you know, pro-inflammatory
77:17 making these, you know, pro-inflammatory compounds are an it's an energy sink,
77:19 compounds are an it's an energy sink, right? So, you do constantly feel tired,
77:22 right? So, you do constantly feel tired, but also because your cells are becoming
77:24 but also because your cells are becoming insulin resistant,
77:26 insulin resistant, when you have a high glucose meal and
77:28 when you have a high glucose meal and you're not responding, the body kind of
77:31 you're not responding, the body kind of overcompensates and produces more
77:33 overcompensates and produces more insulin. So it's like I we got to get
77:35 insulin. So it's like I we got to get this blood glucose out of our system,
77:37 this blood glucose out of our system, right? It can cause a lot of damage if
77:38 right? It can cause a lot of damage if it sits around there. And so you make
77:40 it sits around there. And so you make more insulin and then what happens is
77:42 more insulin and then what happens is you your blood glucose goes way low
77:44 you your blood glucose goes way low because it was like this
77:44 because it was like this overcompensation, right? And then you
77:46 overcompensation, right? And then you feel a crash. You feel like this crash
77:49 feel a crash. You feel like this crash and that signals to the you know
77:50 and that signals to the you know hypothalamus part of the brain. Uh I
77:52 hypothalamus part of the brain. Uh I need energy, right? So then you you sort
77:54 need energy, right? So then you you sort of crave you get those cravings for
77:56 of crave you get those cravings for those calorically energetic dense foods.
77:59 those calorically energetic dense foods. What I'm talking about is like the
78:01 What I'm talking about is like the experience of like,
78:03 experience of like, >> you know, insulin resistance. And what's
78:06 >> you know, insulin resistance. And what's interesting is that you can cause
78:08 interesting is that you can cause someone to gain visceral fat and and
78:10 someone to gain visceral fat and and their brain can become insulin
78:11 their brain can become insulin resistant. So we think a lot about
78:12 resistant. So we think a lot about insulin resistance in the muscle, liver,
78:15 insulin resistance in the muscle, liver, your brain also can become insulin
78:17 your brain also can become insulin resistance quite quickly actually. So um
78:20 resistance quite quickly actually. So um insulin is very important in the brain
78:22 insulin is very important in the brain for a lot of reasons as you know but you
78:24 for a lot of reasons as you know but you know a couple of the things relative to
78:26 know a couple of the things relative to what we're or relevant to what we're
78:28 what we're or relevant to what we're talking about would be one is it does
78:30 talking about would be one is it does act on the hypothalamus and help you
78:32 act on the hypothalamus and help you know tell it to basically um stop eating
78:37 know tell it to basically um stop eating be satiated like I took a meal in okay
78:39 be satiated like I took a meal in okay like I'm going to be satiated but it
78:41 like I'm going to be satiated but it also plays a role in energy storage and
78:43 also plays a role in energy storage and telling the the body how to store the
78:44 telling the the body how to store the energy and so when your brain becomes
78:46 energy and so when your brain becomes insulin resistant it's not doing that
78:49 insulin resistant it's not doing that and so you're not being satiated so you
78:51 and so you're not being satiated so you eat more and you're storing the fat more
78:53 eat more and you're storing the fat more viscerally. And there was a study that
78:57 viscerally. And there was a study that was published actually quite recently. I
78:59 was published actually quite recently. I covered this in a in a recent
79:00 covered this in a in a recent newsletter. It was a really interesting
79:02 newsletter. It was a really interesting study because it was healthy young men
79:04 study because it was healthy young men and researchers put them on a
79:08 and researchers put them on a little bit of a calorically dense. So it
79:10 little bit of a calorically dense. So it was like they were eating 1,200 to 1500
79:12 was like they were eating 1,200 to 1500 more calories a day and it was high
79:14 more calories a day and it was high saturated fat, high sugar. So it was the
79:16 saturated fat, high sugar. So it was the processed foods, ultra processed foods
79:17 processed foods, ultra processed foods like you know ultimate, right?
79:19 like you know ultimate, right? >> That's a lot of extra calories.
79:20 >> That's a lot of extra calories. >> A lot of extra calories or five days it
79:22 >> A lot of extra calories or five days it is. But what happened was they're they
79:25 is. But what happened was they're they did cause their brain to become insulin
79:27 did cause their brain to become insulin resistant and they didn't gain weight
79:30 resistant and they didn't gain weight but they gained visceral fat and they
79:32 but they gained visceral fat and they started gaining fat around their liver.
79:33 started gaining fat around their liver. And that's something that happens as
79:34 And that's something that happens as well because visceral fat is surrounding
79:36 well because visceral fat is surrounding liver. You're getting a lot of free
79:37 liver. You're getting a lot of free fatty acids and they're going right to
79:38 fatty acids and they're going right to the liver. So the liver has to store it,
79:40 the liver. So the liver has to store it, right? So you get this non-alcoholic,
79:42 right? So you get this non-alcoholic, you know, fatty fatty liver, but and
79:44 you know, fatty fatty liver, but and that happened after 5 days. I mean,
79:46 that happened after 5 days. I mean, without gaining
79:47 without gaining >> in otherwise young healthy.
79:48 >> in otherwise young healthy. >> Yeah. But, you know, they were eating a
79:51 >> Yeah. But, you know, they were eating a lot of calories, extra calories.
79:52 lot of calories, extra calories. >> Yeah. That's like an,200. That's like a
79:54 >> Yeah. That's like an,200. That's like a half a pizza
79:57 half a pizza extra above your maintenance calories.
79:59 extra above your maintenance calories. >> That's probably what they were doing.
80:00 >> That's probably what they were doing. They were eating lots of Well, they were
80:01 They were eating lots of Well, they were eating like saturated fat and refined
80:03 eating like saturated fat and refined sugar. So,
80:03 sugar. So, >> burritos and French fries.
80:04 >> burritos and French fries. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're going
80:05 >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're going to do the study, you want to kind of do
80:06 to do the study, you want to kind of do it to a degree where you're going to see
80:08 it to a degree where you're going to see some change, right? So, so maybe like
80:11 some change, right? So, so maybe like maybe it's not going to happen in 5 days
80:13 maybe it's not going to happen in 5 days if you're if you're only eating 500 more
80:15 if you're if you're only eating 500 more calories a day, but over time you will
80:17 calories a day, but over time you will be gaining visceral fat, right? So, it's
80:19 be gaining visceral fat, right? So, it's not going to be the same degree. It's
80:21 not going to be the same degree. It's something to be concerned about. It's
80:23 something to be concerned about. It's something to think about and also
80:25 something to think about and also because you can gain it and not really
80:27 because you can gain it and not really even know it like you know without
80:30 even know it like you know without gaining a pound. And there are other
80:32 gaining a pound. And there are other things that cause it not just you know
80:33 things that cause it not just you know eating too many calories or diet
80:34 eating too many calories or diet composition. I mean you mentioned
80:36 composition. I mean you mentioned cortisol. I mean, chronic elevated
80:38 cortisol. I mean, chronic elevated cortisol makes you store the fat around
80:40 cortisol makes you store the fat around around, you know, visceral fat. Sleep
80:42 around, you know, visceral fat. Sleep loss. I mean, there's also studies
80:43 loss. I mean, there's also studies showing that you take healthy men, sleep
80:45 showing that you take healthy men, sleep deprive them for a couple of weeks, I
80:47 deprive them for a couple of weeks, I think four hours, they're getting four
80:48 think four hours, they're getting four hours of sleep a night, they can start
80:50 hours of sleep a night, they can start gaining visceral fat, I mean, pretty
80:52 gaining visceral fat, I mean, pretty rapidly with only like a pound, gaining
80:54 rapidly with only like a pound, gaining a pound of weight. So, again, it's like
80:56 a pound of weight. So, again, it's like not necessarily something that you're
80:57 not necessarily something that you're going to see on the scale, but it's
80:59 going to see on the scale, but it's happening, right? And it's affecting
81:01 happening, right? And it's affecting your short-term mood. I mean, how you
81:02 your short-term mood. I mean, how you feel, your energy, it's affecting, you
81:05 feel, your energy, it's affecting, you know, the way you're eating. It's a
81:06 know, the way you're eating. It's a vicious cycle because you start to eat
81:07 vicious cycle because you start to eat more calories, right? And then it just
81:10 more calories, right? And then it just becomes this vicious cycle of that you
81:11 becomes this vicious cycle of that you start to gain more visceral fat.
81:13 start to gain more visceral fat. >> I'd like to take a quick break and
81:14 >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors,
81:16 acknowledge one of our sponsors, Element. Element is an electrolyte drink
81:18 Element. Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing
81:20 that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the electrolytes,
81:22 you don't. That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in
81:24 sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar. Proper
81:27 the correct ratios, but no sugar. Proper hydration is critical for brain and body
81:29 hydration is critical for brain and body function. Even a slight degree of
81:31 function. Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish your cognitive
81:33 dehydration can diminish your cognitive and physical performance. It's also
81:35 and physical performance. It's also important that you get adequate
81:36 important that you get adequate electrolytes. The electrolytes, sodium,
81:39 electrolytes. The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium are vital for
81:41 magnesium, and potassium are vital for the functioning of all cells in your
81:42 the functioning of all cells in your body, especially your neurons or your
81:44 body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells. Drinking Element makes it
81:46 nerve cells. Drinking Element makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting
81:48 very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate
81:50 adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes. My days tend to start
81:52 electrolytes. My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump
81:54 really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise.
81:56 right into work or right into exercise. So, to make sure that I'm hydrated and I
81:58 So, to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I
82:00 have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16
82:02 first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an element
82:04 to 32 ounces of water with an element packet dissolved in it. I also drink
82:06 packet dissolved in it. I also drink Element dissolved in water during any
82:07 Element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm
82:09 kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm
82:11 doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and
82:13 sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes. Element has a bunch of
82:15 electrolytes. Element has a bunch of great tasting flavors. In fact, I love
82:16 great tasting flavors. In fact, I love them all. I love the watermelon, the
82:18 them all. I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love
82:20 raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor. So, if you'd like
82:21 the lemonade flavor. So, if you'd like to try Element, you can go to
82:23 to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman
82:25 drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with
82:27 to claim a free Element sample pack with any purchase. Again, that's
82:29 any purchase. Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman
82:31 drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack. Such an
82:34 to claim a free sample pack. Such an important point that you can either not
82:36 important point that you can either not be gaining much or not gaining any uh
82:38 be gaining much or not gaining any uh total body weight, but gaining visceral
82:40 total body weight, but gaining visceral fat. I think that's uh first time I've
82:43 fat. I think that's uh first time I've heard that and it's a vital message for
82:44 heard that and it's a vital message for people to hear because this visceral fat
82:47 people to hear because this visceral fat sounds like one of the major health
82:49 sounds like one of the major health hazards we need to worry about. You
82:50 hazards we need to worry about. You mentioned elevated chronically elevated
82:52 mentioned elevated chronically elevated cortisol. Sleep deprivation will
82:54 cortisol. Sleep deprivation will increase visceral fat. Once again, I
82:56 increase visceral fat. Once again, I know I'm beating a drum here um almost
82:59 know I'm beating a drum here um almost to death, but having high cortisol early
83:02 to death, but having high cortisol early in the day and low cortisol in the
83:04 in the day and low cortisol in the evening is the definition of not
83:07 evening is the definition of not chronically high cortisol. The
83:09 chronically high cortisol. The definition of chronically high cortisol
83:10 definition of chronically high cortisol is somewhat elevated or elevated
83:13 is somewhat elevated or elevated cortisol in the morning, but especially
83:15 cortisol in the morning, but especially in the hours before sleep. And I I
83:17 in the hours before sleep. And I I actually have a theory that is not a
83:19 actually have a theory that is not a stretch that one of the main reasons why
83:21 stretch that one of the main reasons why it's so detrimental to our mental and
83:22 it's so detrimental to our mental and physical health in the short and long
83:24 physical health in the short and long term is because of the ways it disrupts
83:26 term is because of the ways it disrupts sleep.
83:27 sleep. >> And so and we can't tease those apart.
83:29 >> And so and we can't tease those apart. You can't do a study where you spike
83:30 You can't do a study where you spike cortisol late in the day. Even if you
83:32 cortisol late in the day. Even if you can fall asleep just fine after the end
83:34 can fall asleep just fine after the end of a really stressful day, the sleep is
83:36 of a really stressful day, the sleep is different. And people say, "Well, life
83:38 different. And people say, "Well, life has stress." And I totally agree. I
83:40 has stress." And I totally agree. I mean, Lord knows I've experienced life
83:41 mean, Lord knows I've experienced life has stress, but getting that last hour
83:44 has stress, but getting that last hour of the day doing things to push down on
83:46 of the day doing things to push down on cortisol, push down on stress, lower
83:48 cortisol, push down on stress, lower heart rate, not eating, and that
83:49 heart rate, not eating, and that certainly that last hour before sleep,
83:51 certainly that last hour before sleep, ideally three. Um, I feel like that
83:54 ideally three. Um, I feel like that small change can make a an outsized
83:56 small change can make a an outsized positive difference.
83:57 positive difference. >> That's interesting. like the the the
84:00 >> That's interesting. like the the the correlation between the high cortisol
84:02 correlation between the high cortisol affecting your sleep and maybe that's
84:04 affecting your sleep and maybe that's also like they're they're related and so
84:05 also like they're they're related and so the sleep loss really does make you we
84:08 the sleep loss really does make you we know we know from you know you probably
84:10 know we know from you know you probably know who the researchers are that have
84:12 know who the researchers are that have done those studies on sleep loss and it
84:13 done those studies on sleep loss and it affecting appetite right I mean
84:15 affecting appetite right I mean >> oh everything gets disregulated I don't
84:17 >> oh everything gets disregulated I don't want to take us off course but I think
84:18 want to take us off course but I think you might find it interesting that
84:20 you might find it interesting that there's a beautiful study where they
84:22 there's a beautiful study where they look measured metabolism during sleep
84:24 look measured metabolism during sleep they basically had people breathe into a
84:25 they basically had people breathe into a tube um during sleep they had a mask on.
84:28 tube um during sleep they had a mask on. And it turns out that the brain cycles
84:30 And it turns out that the brain cycles through all the different forms of
84:31 through all the different forms of metabolism during sleep. There's a phase
84:33 metabolism during sleep. There's a phase of sleep where you're essentially
84:35 of sleep where you're essentially running on sugar. There's a you then
84:36 running on sugar. There's a you then there's like a almost looks like
84:38 there's like a almost looks like somebody's ketogenic at one basically
84:40 somebody's ketogenic at one basically that the middle of the night when we're
84:41 that the middle of the night when we're well it should be at night when you're
84:42 well it should be at night when you're sleeping is a is kind of a test run of
84:45 sleeping is a is kind of a test run of all the systems but they get
84:46 all the systems but they get recalibrated and it's so important. I
84:49 recalibrated and it's so important. I actually think you know most of the
84:50 actually think you know most of the negative effects of alcohol that people
84:51 negative effects of alcohol that people talk about yes it's a poison. It's a
84:53 talk about yes it's a poison. It's a class one carcinogen um as classified by
84:55 class one carcinogen um as classified by the World Health Organization on a I
84:58 the World Health Organization on a I think most of the negative effects of
84:59 think most of the negative effects of drinking are because of the negative
85:00 drinking are because of the negative effects of alcohol on sleep.
85:02 effects of alcohol on sleep. >> I'm not telling people drink in the
85:04 >> I'm not telling people drink in the morning, but you know it and so I I
85:06 morning, but you know it and so I I think that if you get your sleep right,
85:08 think that if you get your sleep right, you're not 90% of the way there, but
85:10 you're not 90% of the way there, but you're halfway there.
85:11 you're halfway there. >> Yeah,
85:11 >> Yeah, >> I really do believe that. And then
85:13 >> I really do believe that. And then getting your sleep right makes you do a
85:14 getting your sleep right makes you do a bunch of other things,
85:16 bunch of other things, >> right? You're you're more motivated to
85:17 >> right? You're you're more motivated to exercise for one.
85:19 exercise for one. >> More motivated to exercise. your food
85:21 >> More motivated to exercise. your food choices. I mean, and on and on. The the
85:23 choices. I mean, and on and on. The the problem with talking about sleep is so
85:25 problem with talking about sleep is so important is people will get sleep
85:26 important is people will get sleep anxiety. So, we tap dance around this
85:28 anxiety. So, we tap dance around this like, oh, we don't want people stress.
85:30 like, oh, we don't want people stress. Learn how to fall asleep. Learn how to
85:31 Learn how to fall asleep. Learn how to fall back asleep. These no one gets it
85:33 fall back asleep. These no one gets it perfect. Yes, you'll survive like
85:35 perfect. Yes, you'll survive like without one poor night's sleep or an all
85:37 without one poor night's sleep or an all nighter. You're not going to die. Like,
85:38 nighter. You're not going to die. Like, you know, just get good at it on
85:39 you know, just get good at it on average, right? That's what I'd say.
85:41 average, right? That's what I'd say. Could you tell us what the structure of
85:42 Could you tell us what the structure of the intermittent fasting is for you?
85:44 the intermittent fasting is for you? Does that mean skipping breakfast,
85:45 Does that mean skipping breakfast, skipping lunch, skipping dinner? because
85:48 skipping lunch, skipping dinner? because I know a number of people are sort of
85:50 I know a number of people are sort of getting drawn back to intermittent
85:51 getting drawn back to intermittent fasting after a couple years of it
85:53 fasting after a couple years of it getting beat up on is like not the best
85:54 getting beat up on is like not the best way to lose fat or it is a
85:56 way to lose fat or it is a >> I think it's a terrific way to do the
85:59 >> I think it's a terrific way to do the sorts of things that you're describing
86:00 sorts of things that you're describing and I'm learning today more about the
86:02 and I'm learning today more about the positive things it can do um for insulin
86:05 positive things it can do um for insulin sensitivity and so forth. If you're on a
86:08 sensitivity and so forth. If you're on a bout of intermittent fasting, are you
86:11 bout of intermittent fasting, are you doing it by the clock? Are you doing it
86:12 doing it by the clock? Are you doing it by feel? What does it look like? For me,
86:14 by feel? What does it look like? For me, it it it really does depend on the day.
86:17 it it it really does depend on the day. And I really do try to stop eating three
86:19 And I really do try to stop eating three hours before I go to bed. It doesn't
86:21 hours before I go to bed. It doesn't always happen, you know, with family
86:23 always happen, you know, with family obligations, social obligations, but
86:24 obligations, social obligations, but it's the habit that's important, right?
86:26 it's the habit that's important, right? So, intermittent fasting, you know, it's
86:29 So, intermittent fasting, you know, it's more than just one intervention. As I
86:30 more than just one intervention. As I mentioned, it's a behavioral tool that
86:32 mentioned, it's a behavioral tool that you can use to limit your calorie intake
86:35 you can use to limit your calorie intake with actually without actually having to
86:36 with actually without actually having to count all the calories, which some
86:38 count all the calories, which some people like to do, some people don't,
86:40 people like to do, some people don't, right? So, it's a tool, but also it's
86:42 right? So, it's a tool, but also it's really important for a metabolic switch.
86:44 really important for a metabolic switch. As you mentioned, insulin sensitivity in
86:46 As you mentioned, insulin sensitivity in the metabolic switch is something that
86:48 the metabolic switch is something that Dr. Mark Matson coined and I love it
86:51 Dr. Mark Matson coined and I love it because I feel like, you know, thinking
86:54 because I feel like, you know, thinking about intermittent fasting in that way
86:56 about intermittent fasting in that way makes it a little more clear as to the
86:59 makes it a little more clear as to the benefits of it. It depends on the meal
87:00 benefits of it. It depends on the meal you have and how much exercise you do,
87:02 you have and how much exercise you do, right? But on average, let's say 11 12
87:04 right? But on average, let's say 11 12 hours to deplete your liver glycogen
87:06 hours to deplete your liver glycogen levels. And once that happens, you do
87:09 levels. And once that happens, you do start to burn fat and use fatty acids as
87:12 start to burn fat and use fatty acids as fuel and make ketone bodies. So you go
87:15 fuel and make ketone bodies. So you go into ketogenesis, right? And that's a
87:17 into ketogenesis, right? And that's a metabolic switch. Metabolic flexibility.
87:19 metabolic switch. Metabolic flexibility. You're not you're going from using
87:21 You're not you're going from using carbohydrates as fuel to using fatty
87:22 carbohydrates as fuel to using fatty acids and making ketone bodies as fuel.
87:25 acids and making ketone bodies as fuel. And that's something that, you know,
87:26 And that's something that, you know, throughout human evolution was
87:28 throughout human evolution was ingrained, right? Like we didn't always
87:30 ingrained, right? Like we didn't always have access to Uber Eats and Instacart
87:33 have access to Uber Eats and Instacart and you just at a swipe you get food,
87:35 and you just at a swipe you get food, right? I mean, there were many times
87:37 right? I mean, there were many times when, you know, people had to not eat
87:40 when, you know, people had to not eat because they couldn't forge their foods,
87:42 because they couldn't forge their foods, maybe the time of year, or they couldn't
87:44 maybe the time of year, or they couldn't hunt their food because they didn't get
87:46 hunt their food because they didn't get a win or whatever. I don't know. So,
87:48 a win or whatever. I don't know. So, this metabolic flexibility is something
87:50 this metabolic flexibility is something that's really ingrained in in our in our
87:52 that's really ingrained in in our in our our DNA in a sense, right? I mean, one
87:55 our DNA in a sense, right? I mean, one of the reasons I like to do that is the
87:57 of the reasons I like to do that is the ketone production. And why is that? You
88:00 ketone production. And why is that? You know, ketones are really clean. They're
88:03 know, ketones are really clean. They're clean, a clean way to burn energy. So
88:05 clean, a clean way to burn energy. So they generate less oxidative stress,
88:09 they generate less oxidative stress, less oxidative products, but they also
88:12 less oxidative products, but they also are energetically favorable in that it
88:14 are energetically favorable in that it takes less energy to use them to make
88:16 takes less energy to use them to make energy than glucose does. So it takes
88:18 energy than glucose does. So it takes more energy to use glucose as energy
88:20 more energy to use glucose as energy than it does ketones. But they're also a
88:23 than it does ketones. But they're also a signaling molecule. So it's a way for
88:25 signaling molecule. So it's a way for the body, you know, to signal to other
88:27 the body, you know, to signal to other parts of the body like, hey, this is a
88:30 parts of the body like, hey, this is a stressful time. There's no food. I'm,
88:32 stressful time. There's no food. I'm, you know, burn. I'm I'm in ketosis. um
88:35 you know, burn. I'm I'm in ketosis. um let's let's make you stronger, right?
88:37 let's let's make you stronger, right? Because that's kind of what evolution
88:39 Because that's kind of what evolution wants. Like if you're not able to find
88:40 wants. Like if you're not able to find or eat food, you have to be stronger to
88:43 or eat food, you have to be stronger to be able to do it, right? And so that's
88:45 be able to do it, right? And so that's that's kind of at the I say core of of
88:48 that's kind of at the I say core of of this metabolic switch and why it's
88:50 this metabolic switch and why it's important. And I think that I really
88:51 important. And I think that I really like Mark Matson being the pioneer in
88:53 like Mark Matson being the pioneer in this and as a neuroscientist really
88:55 this and as a neuroscientist really looking at the benefits in the brain as
88:57 looking at the benefits in the brain as well. you know these ketones like beta
88:59 well. you know these ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are activating you know
89:02 hydroxybutyrate are activating you know growth factors like brain derived
89:04 growth factors like brain derived neurotrphic factor in the brain as you
89:06 neurotrphic factor in the brain as you know it's very important for you know
89:08 know it's very important for you know learning memory you know syn synapse
89:11 learning memory you know syn synapse formation and stuff that's hugely
89:13 formation and stuff that's hugely important for um neuroplasticity so it's
89:16 important for um neuroplasticity so it's activating beneficial compounds like
89:18 activating beneficial compounds like that and again um it it it's not going
89:21 that and again um it it it's not going to happen if you're never going into
89:23 to happen if you're never going into this metabolic switch and there's other
89:24 this metabolic switch and there's other ways to get there right so you can limit
89:27 ways to get there right so you can limit your food go into this ketosis, right?
89:29 your food go into this ketosis, right? Where you're basically depleting your
89:30 Where you're basically depleting your liver glycogen or you can exercise a
89:33 liver glycogen or you can exercise a lot, right? So, your energy expenditure
89:35 lot, right? So, your energy expenditure goes up. So, there's there's different
89:36 goes up. So, there's there's different ways to get to this metabolic switch. It
89:38 ways to get to this metabolic switch. It doesn't necessarily have to be
89:39 doesn't necessarily have to be intermittent fasting.
89:40 intermittent fasting. >> God,
89:41 >> God, >> and I'm telling you this because you're
89:42 >> and I'm telling you this because you're you I want to tell you why I'm I'm sort
89:44 you I want to tell you why I'm I'm sort of back back on the intermittent
89:46 of back back on the intermittent fasting. And by the way, it's not for
89:48 fasting. And by the way, it's not for everyone. Like I said, I mean, I think
89:50 everyone. Like I said, I mean, I think that you can find other ways to get this
89:52 that you can find other ways to get this metabolic switch. And um for me,
89:54 metabolic switch. And um for me, intermittent fasting works. And so what
89:56 intermittent fasting works. And so what I do typically is I will do most of the
89:59 I do typically is I will do most of the time my fast my workouts will be fasted.
90:01 time my fast my workouts will be fasted. Not all the time. It it does depend on
90:02 Not all the time. It it does depend on how I feel.
90:03 how I feel. >> What time do you typically wake up?
90:04 >> What time do you typically wake up? >> So I wake up like between 6:00 and 7:00.
90:07 >> So I wake up like between 6:00 and 7:00. >> And if I didn't have a family like you
90:10 >> And if I didn't have a family like you know getting my son ready and I would
90:12 know getting my son ready and I would probably work out right away, but I
90:14 probably work out right away, but I don't end up working out until like
90:16 don't end up working out until like 8:30.
90:17 8:30. >> So I'm you know
90:19 >> So I'm you know >> still pretty early. What time do you go
90:20 >> still pretty early. What time do you go to sleep if you don't mind me asking?
90:21 to sleep if you don't mind me asking? >> I'm I'm asleep like I'm asleep by 10:00.
90:25 >> I'm I'm asleep like I'm asleep by 10:00. But usually in bed at 9 takes and an
90:27 But usually in bed at 9 takes and an hour of just like you know hanging out
90:29 hour of just like you know hanging out and
90:29 and >> yeah so so um or 9:30 sometimes but yeah
90:33 >> yeah so so um or 9:30 sometimes but yeah usually 10 o'clock is when I'm sleeping
90:36 usually 10 o'clock is when I'm sleeping that's my my bedtime and uh so I do stop
90:39 that's my my bedtime and uh so I do stop eating I try to stop eating by 7 p.m.
90:42 eating I try to stop eating by 7 p.m. But typically my first meal on it
90:44 But typically my first meal on it depends on the day, but it'll usually be
90:46 depends on the day, but it'll usually be like around 11, maybe sometimes 12. If
90:48 like around 11, maybe sometimes 12. If I'm doing a podcast, it'll be later. And
90:51 I'm doing a podcast, it'll be later. And um I do like to be fasted in the morning
90:53 um I do like to be fasted in the morning because the cognitive benefits is is
90:56 because the cognitive benefits is is really what I'm interested in with that
90:57 really what I'm interested in with that metabolic switch. And it does come down
90:58 metabolic switch. And it does come down to ketones and I know that uh Mark
91:01 to ketones and I know that uh Mark Matson's talked a lot about this. I had
91:02 Matson's talked a lot about this. I had him on my podcast a couple a few years
91:04 him on my podcast a couple a few years ago actually. I learned so much. But the
91:06 ago actually. I learned so much. But the ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are
91:08 ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are increasing GABA. They're like balancing
91:10 increasing GABA. They're like balancing the glutamate, the, you know, excitatory
91:13 the glutamate, the, you know, excitatory neurotransmitter with the inhibitory
91:14 neurotransmitter with the inhibitory one, GABA. And I think the increasing
91:17 one, GABA. And I think the increasing GABA is what helps me and what I love
91:20 GABA is what helps me and what I love the most because it does help, I think,
91:22 the most because it does help, I think, quiet down some of the other, I don't
91:25 quiet down some of the other, I don't know, chitter chatter in my brain and
91:27 know, chitter chatter in my brain and help me focus because it's like somehow
91:29 help me focus because it's like somehow the GABA is calming in a way. I don't I
91:31 the GABA is calming in a way. I don't I don't know exactly, you could probably
91:32 don't know exactly, you could probably describe it better than I can. All I
91:34 describe it better than I can. All I know is that I really like it. And so in
91:36 know is that I really like it. And so in the mornings I like to be, you know, I
91:38 the mornings I like to be, you know, I like to be fasted. I like to be
91:40 like to be fasted. I like to be cognitively aware. It's when I get most
91:41 cognitively aware. It's when I get most of my productive work done and I feel
91:45 of my productive work done and I feel smarter. So I'm doing it. And that's why
91:48 smarter. So I'm doing it. And that's why I typically like to shift my breakfast
91:50 I typically like to shift my breakfast to later. Now, I do I would say some
91:53 to later. Now, I do I would say some days I do only eat two meals where I am
91:55 days I do only eat two meals where I am on honestly I'm skipping the quote
91:57 on honestly I'm skipping the quote unquote breakfast,
91:59 unquote breakfast, >> but uh some days I do have three meals
92:03 >> but uh some days I do have three meals and you know oftent times they're like
92:04 and you know oftent times they're like different sized meals, right? And
92:06 different sized meals, right? And usually my if I do have three meals, the
92:09 usually my if I do have three meals, the the the third one will be the in between
92:12 the the third one will be the in between the first meal and the second meal will
92:14 the first meal and the second meal will be like a very like a half a or three4s
92:17 be like a very like a half a or three4s of a turkey burger or something. So it's
92:18 of a turkey burger or something. So it's it's mostly protein and it's not heavy.
92:22 it's mostly protein and it's not heavy. >> But so I would say I'm you know usually
92:24 >> But so I would say I'm you know usually 11 to seven probably is when I'm eating
92:27 11 to seven probably is when I'm eating my meals most most days. Some days it's
92:29 my meals most most days. Some days it's you know I I fast for a shorter period
92:31 you know I I fast for a shorter period of time.
92:32 of time. >> Some days I wake up in the morning
92:33 >> Some days I wake up in the morning because I I did too early of of like I
92:36 because I I did too early of of like I you know I stopped eating like like four
92:38 you know I stopped eating like like four or five hours before bed and I'm like I
92:40 or five hours before bed and I'm like I need to eat and I guess what I eat and
92:42 need to eat and I guess what I eat and then I work out and it's like that's you
92:44 then I work out and it's like that's you know you kind of just listen to to what
92:45 know you kind of just listen to to what your body's doing. Actually, Mark Matson
92:47 your body's doing. Actually, Mark Matson just published a study very very
92:49 just published a study very very recently showing that he did a I think
92:51 recently showing that he did a I think he was doing a 52 intermittent fasting
92:53 he was doing a 52 intermittent fasting protocol where it's like two days you're
92:55 protocol where it's like two days you're getting pretty severe caloric
92:57 getting pretty severe caloric restriction. Like you're eating one
92:58 restriction. Like you're eating one meal, but it's like 500 calories, you
93:00 meal, but it's like 500 calories, you know, for that for the day and it's
93:02 know, for that for the day and it's twice two days two days out of the week.
93:04 twice two days two days out of the week. The other five days you're eating
93:05 The other five days you're eating normal. And compared that to calorie
93:08 normal. And compared that to calorie like eating eating like a healthy diet
93:09 like eating eating like a healthy diet and they were somewhat calorie
93:10 and they were somewhat calorie restricted but not quite as much as the
93:12 restricted but not quite as much as the people that were doing the fasting. And
93:13 people that were doing the fasting. And they had the fasting group had massive
93:15 they had the fasting group had massive cognitive benefits like 20% improvement
93:17 cognitive benefits like 20% improvement in a battery of tests that were done.
93:19 in a battery of tests that were done. >> He attributes that to the ketones and
93:21 >> He attributes that to the ketones and the effect of ketones on GABA.
93:23 the effect of ketones on GABA. >> He attributes it to the ketones and like
93:25 >> He attributes it to the ketones and like can you get that to some degree with
93:26 can you get that to some degree with caloric restriction? Probably especially
93:28 caloric restriction? Probably especially the more severe caloric restriction. You
93:29 the more severe caloric restriction. You do you can if we're talking about weight
93:32 do you can if we're talking about weight loss caloric restriction is key, right?
93:34 loss caloric restriction is key, right? You have to have that. If we're talking
93:36 You have to have that. If we're talking about the cardiovascular reset, like
93:39 about the cardiovascular reset, like caloric restriction, if you're eating
93:40 caloric restriction, if you're eating meals right before bed, you're not going
93:41 meals right before bed, you're not going to get that. like that those studies
93:43 to get that. like that those studies have been done. And I think, you know,
93:44 have been done. And I think, you know, Courtney Peterson was some of the one of
93:46 Courtney Peterson was some of the one of the first ones to really show that
93:47 the first ones to really show that effect on blood pressure, you know, like
93:50 effect on blood pressure, you know, like really significant. In fact, if you if
93:51 really significant. In fact, if you if you do early timerestricted eating and
93:54 you do early timerestricted eating and stop eating, you know, I don't know how
93:55 stop eating, you know, I don't know how early in the day it was, maybe 6 p.m.,
93:57 early in the day it was, maybe 6 p.m., maybe it was 8:00 p.m., but you know,
93:59 maybe it was 8:00 p.m., but you know, there was like a blood pressure drop
94:01 there was like a blood pressure drop that was like 10, you know, 10, I think
94:04 that was like 10, you know, 10, I think was um
94:06 was um >> uh points or something millimeters of
94:08 >> uh points or something millimeters of mercury.
94:08 mercury. >> Significant.
94:09 >> Significant. >> What is it? Is it?
94:10 >> What is it? Is it? >> Yeah.
94:10 >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
94:11 >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, that's very significant.
94:12 >> So, I mean, that's very significant. It's on it's on magnitude of what you'd
94:14 It's on it's on magnitude of what you'd see with like some of the firstline, you
94:16 see with like some of the firstline, you know, drugs that are used to treat
94:18 know, drugs that are used to treat hypertension. I would never say for
94:20 hypertension. I would never say for someone to do that, but I'm just saying
94:21 someone to do that, but I'm just saying it's significant and that's not
94:22 it's significant and that's not something that you typically see if
94:24 something that you typically see if you're eating, you know, fewer calories,
94:25 you're eating, you know, fewer calories, but you're eating constantly throughout
94:27 but you're eating constantly throughout the day.
94:28 the day. >> So, I do think there are special
94:29 >> So, I do think there are special benefits that can be had, but again,
94:32 benefits that can be had, but again, it's also a tool that people use. I use
94:34 it's also a tool that people use. I use it as a tool as well. I don't like to
94:35 it as a tool as well. I don't like to count calories. Like, I don't, you know,
94:37 count calories. Like, I don't, you know, some people do and that's fine then, you
94:40 some people do and that's fine then, you know, that's that's the way you can you
94:41 know, that's that's the way you can you can do it. But I like it for the
94:43 can do it. But I like it for the metabolic switch as well.
94:45 metabolic switch as well. >> Um, if I were an endurance athlete
94:47 >> Um, if I were an endurance athlete running, you know, 10, 14 miles a day, I
94:50 running, you know, 10, 14 miles a day, I wouldn't have to do this. That would be
94:52 wouldn't have to do this. That would be my metabolic switch. And it's not that
94:54 my metabolic switch. And it's not that I'm not metabolically flexible. I mean,
94:56 I'm not metabolically flexible. I mean, I do I think you can just training
95:00 I do I think you can just training itself, you know, does to some degree
95:02 itself, you know, does to some degree help with metabolic flexibility, right?
95:03 help with metabolic flexibility, right? the ability to switch between burning
95:06 the ability to switch between burning glucose and carbohydrates and and then
95:08 glucose and carbohydrates and and then burning burn using fat fat and fatty
95:10 burning burn using fat fat and fatty acids as your energy source. It's that I
95:13 acids as your energy source. It's that I really I want that I want that real
95:16 really I want that I want that real switch to be on and I want it to be on
95:18 switch to be on and I want it to be on for a little bit of of time and then I
95:19 for a little bit of of time and then I want to turn it off by eating. You know,
95:21 want to turn it off by eating. You know, I'm not starving myself. And I think you
95:23 I'm not starving myself. And I think you can go too far with exercise and with
95:25 can go too far with exercise and with fasting.
95:26 fasting. >> The problems with fasting and the people
95:28 >> The problems with fasting and the people that are like, "Oh, fasting is terrible
95:30 that are like, "Oh, fasting is terrible for you." I mean, it comes down to one,
95:32 for you." I mean, it comes down to one, they were all about it's like the weight
95:34 they were all about it's like the weight loss is not just due to intermittent
95:36 loss is not just due to intermittent fasting itself. It's due to calorie
95:37 fasting itself. It's due to calorie restriction. Guess what? They were
95:38 restriction. Guess what? They were right. They were right. Number two,
95:40 right. They were right. Number two, they're afraid of losing muscle. And I
95:42 they're afraid of losing muscle. And I think we have enough data now that it's
95:44 think we have enough data now that it's if you're training, if you're doing
95:45 if you're training, if you're doing resistance training, you're not going to
95:46 resistance training, you're not going to be losing muscle. Now, maybe you won't
95:48 be losing muscle. Now, maybe you won't gain as much as if you were eating more
95:51 gain as much as if you were eating more protein, but um you could you could just
95:54 protein, but um you could you could just eat more protein um within the window
95:57 eat more protein um within the window that you're eating and be fine, right?
95:59 that you're eating and be fine, right? So, I think that's the other thing that
96:01 So, I think that's the other thing that people are worried about is muscle loss,
96:03 people are worried about is muscle loss, including myself. And I train so much
96:06 including myself. And I train so much now. And it just works well for me. And
96:08 now. And it just works well for me. And I feel good and it's like this clean
96:10 I feel good and it's like this clean feeling. You feel cognitively sharp and
96:12 feeling. You feel cognitively sharp and it works. And I think that the metabolic
96:14 it works. And I think that the metabolic switch is something to not be scared of
96:16 switch is something to not be scared of as long as you're not again going to the
96:19 as long as you're not again going to the extreme, right? And if you don't want to
96:20 extreme, right? And if you don't want to train while you're fast, don't train
96:22 train while you're fast, don't train while you're fasted. You don't have to.
96:24 while you're fasted. You don't have to. you know, I I think there's a little bit
96:26 you know, I I think there's a little bit of an added benefit that works for me in
96:28 of an added benefit that works for me in terms of burning fat, which is what I,
96:31 terms of burning fat, which is what I, you know, particularly visceral fat. And
96:33 you know, particularly visceral fat. And to me, that that's that's what works
96:35 to me, that that's that's what works well. But, um, you can obviously like if
96:38 well. But, um, you can obviously like if you're training hard and a lot and
96:40 you're training hard and a lot and really fasting, maybe that's too much.
96:42 really fasting, maybe that's too much. It's too much of a stress. So, you have
96:44 It's too much of a stress. So, you have to kind of figure it out for yourself.
96:47 to kind of figure it out for yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the uh the known
96:49 >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the uh the known increase in adrenaline from being
96:51 increase in adrenaline from being slightly fasted is awesome for cognitive
96:54 slightly fasted is awesome for cognitive function. Um I think it allows people to
96:57 function. Um I think it allows people to ingest fewer stimulants in the form of
96:59 ingest fewer stimulants in the form of caffeine. You can, you know, you don't
97:00 caffeine. You can, you know, you don't need as much caffeine when you're doing
97:02 need as much caffeine when you're doing some fasting. I what you describe is um
97:05 some fasting. I what you describe is um similar to what I do, although I notice
97:06 similar to what I do, although I notice these days I'm waking up hungrier and
97:08 these days I'm waking up hungrier and hungrier and I attribute that actually
97:10 hungrier and I attribute that actually to my last bite of food, you know,
97:12 to my last bite of food, you know, coming a little bit earlier in the day
97:14 coming a little bit earlier in the day and further from sleep. And also that
97:16 and further from sleep. And also that thermogenic effect of eating raises core
97:18 thermogenic effect of eating raises core body temperature and you know to fall
97:20 body temperature and you know to fall asleep you want your body temperature
97:22 asleep you want your body temperature dropping. So it all starts to what you
97:24 dropping. So it all starts to what you know what I think is kind of uh is very
97:26 know what I think is kind of uh is very exciting to me is that for a few years
97:28 exciting to me is that for a few years there it seemed like there were just so
97:30 there it seemed like there were just so many things so many protocols so many
97:32 many things so many protocols so many studies but when I think about cortisol
97:35 studies but when I think about cortisol high in the morning low in the evening
97:36 high in the morning low in the evening bracketing the day that what works best
97:38 bracketing the day that what works best for sleep but what you're describing
97:40 for sleep but what you're describing certainly today you really in addition
97:42 certainly today you really in addition to many other things really clarified
97:43 to many other things really clarified the relationship between gut and
97:45 the relationship between gut and inflammation and brain and other tissues
97:48 inflammation and brain and other tissues things start to fall into bins that it's
97:50 things start to fall into bins that it's you know like all of bi algae so
97:53 you know like all of bi algae so beautifully organized that it doesn't
97:54 beautifully organized that it doesn't mean long lists of things for people to
97:56 mean long lists of things for people to do. I love the idea that while it sounds
97:58 do. I love the idea that while it sounds like you're just saying, "Oh, if I wake
98:00 like you're just saying, "Oh, if I wake up and I'm hungry, I eat and if I'm not
98:03 up and I'm hungry, I eat and if I'm not and I think I can train fast, I like to
98:04 and I think I can train fast, I like to train fasted." That might seem like a
98:06 train fasted." That might seem like a like an obvious thing to some, but I
98:08 like an obvious thing to some, but I think it's so critical because the
98:10 think it's so critical because the mechanism that you're chasing in both
98:11 mechanism that you're chasing in both cases is the same. you're trying to get
98:14 cases is the same. you're trying to get great sleep, great great workouts, but
98:15 great sleep, great great workouts, but you're not trying to optimize the
98:17 you're not trying to optimize the workout to the point where, you know,
98:18 workout to the point where, you know, you disrupt your sleep or you insist on
98:20 you disrupt your sleep or you insist on doing something like eating or fasting,
98:22 doing something like eating or fasting, whatever it is. So, the find out what
98:24 whatever it is. So, the find out what works for you thing is is uh is so
98:26 works for you thing is is uh is so crucial because it's about feel that
98:28 crucial because it's about feel that fits into a logic and uh I have to say
98:32 fits into a logic and uh I have to say that's initially what drew me to your
98:34 that's initially what drew me to your work is there's a logic. You're not just
98:35 work is there's a logic. You're not just saying, "Okay, this study said this, so
98:37 saying, "Okay, this study said this, so I'm going to do this." It fits into a
98:38 I'm going to do this." It fits into a broader logic that comes from your
98:40 broader logic that comes from your training. So I just that's a just a
98:41 training. So I just that's a just a point of gratitude and I hope it will
98:43 point of gratitude and I hope it will frame in people's minds that yes do what
98:45 frame in people's minds that yes do what you feel do what works for you but try
98:47 you feel do what works for you but try and frame it in a certain logic
98:50 and frame it in a certain logic >> and that will because that's actually
98:51 >> and that will because that's actually what gives you flexibility over time
98:53 what gives you flexibility over time like oh you're traveling you have to eat
98:54 like oh you're traveling you have to eat a little later okay the next morning
98:55 a little later okay the next morning maybe train fasted
98:57 maybe train fasted >> or vice versa
98:58 >> or vice versa >> yeah it's about the habit exactly it's
98:59 >> yeah it's about the habit exactly it's about the habit and there are days when
99:01 about the habit and there are days when I just like I can't train fast or there
99:02 I just like I can't train fast or there days I wake up and I have to eat exactly
99:04 days I wake up and I have to eat exactly where you you you know and there are
99:06 where you you you know and there are days when I when I when I'm eating later
99:09 days when I when I when I'm eating later because of social obl obligations and I
99:10 because of social obl obligations and I don't freak out about it because it's
99:12 don't freak out about it because it's about the habit.
99:13 about the habit. >> I like the idea of one metabolic switch
99:16 >> I like the idea of one metabolic switch uh per day. You know, you said you could
99:19 uh per day. You know, you said you could get it from exercise and I thought, you
99:20 get it from exercise and I thought, you know, I can really imagine that in 5
99:23 know, I can really imagine that in 5 years a concept of of health that
99:26 years a concept of of health that hopefully everyone understands out there
99:28 hopefully everyone understands out there is that find a way to generate the
99:30 is that find a way to generate the metabolic switch once per day. Maybe you
99:32 metabolic switch once per day. Maybe you fast and exercise, maybe you just
99:33 fast and exercise, maybe you just exercise, maybe you just fast because
99:35 exercise, maybe you just fast because you can't exercise
99:36 you can't exercise >> because people's schedules are
99:38 >> because people's schedules are constrained. But the notion of the
99:39 constrained. But the notion of the metabolic switches being here's where it
99:41 metabolic switches being here's where it fits in exactly the logic is you want
99:43 fits in exactly the logic is you want the metabolic switch. you do. And it's
99:46 the metabolic switch. you do. And it's not just, you know, there's other
99:48 not just, you know, there's other components of this metabolic switch that
99:49 components of this metabolic switch that we haven't even discussed, which is like
99:51 we haven't even discussed, which is like when you're in that fasted state, when
99:54 when you're in that fasted state, when you're in the ketosis, like that's also
99:56 you're in the ketosis, like that's also repair mode for your body, right? So,
99:58 repair mode for your body, right? So, there's the fed state, the grow
100:00 there's the fed state, the grow anabolic, and of course, we're all
100:02 anabolic, and of course, we're all obsessed with anabolic now because the
100:03 obsessed with anabolic now because the associated with muscle growth, right?
100:05 associated with muscle growth, right? But there's also the repair and recovery
100:08 But there's also the repair and recovery state, right? And so, you don't always
100:10 state, right? And so, you don't always want the growth on, right? You want to
100:13 want the growth on, right? You want to repair damage and repairing damage can
100:15 repair damage and repairing damage can be damage to DNA. A lot of these genes
100:17 be damage to DNA. A lot of these genes are activated, you know, when when
100:20 are activated, you know, when when you're in a nutrient deprived state,
100:22 you're in a nutrient deprived state, right? When you're in that metabolic
100:24 right? When you're in that metabolic switch and autophagy and that's another
100:27 switch and autophagy and that's another one that people some it's a buzz it's a
100:29 one that people some it's a buzz it's a buzzword now, but it is something that
100:32 buzzword now, but it is something that is activated. It's first of all, we have
100:34 is activated. It's first of all, we have basil amount of autophagy going on at
100:36 basil amount of autophagy going on at any point, right? Like that's happening
100:37 any point, right? Like that's happening like
100:38 like >> you don't have to fast. You don't have
100:39 >> you don't have to fast. You don't have to fast
100:40 to fast >> or be in a caloric deficit which will
100:41 >> or be in a caloric deficit which will also exacerbate it,
100:43 also exacerbate it, >> right? You do have fasted activated
100:46 >> right? You do have fasted activated autophagy and certain tissues are more
100:48 autophagy and certain tissues are more sensitive like the liver and the brain
100:50 sensitive like the liver and the brain actually and so you know we don't have a
100:53 actually and so you know we don't have a lot of human data on that in terms of
100:55 lot of human data on that in terms of like fasting. Exercise also activates
100:58 like fasting. Exercise also activates it. We don't have a lot of great quality
101:00 it. We don't have a lot of great quality human data and that's for a lot of
101:02 human data and that's for a lot of reasons. One is the tissues that are
101:04 reasons. One is the tissues that are most responsive to fasting induced
101:06 most responsive to fasting induced autophagy are not blood cells. In fact,
101:08 autophagy are not blood cells. In fact, like blood cells are pretty restricted
101:10 like blood cells are pretty restricted in their response to fasted induced
101:12 in their response to fasted induced autophagy, but that's the easiest cell
101:14 autophagy, but that's the easiest cell to act, you know, to excess if you're
101:16 to act, you know, to excess if you're going to measure autophagy in humans,
101:18 going to measure autophagy in humans, right? Muscle biopsies have been done.
101:19 right? Muscle biopsies have been done. That's the muscle is also response
101:22 That's the muscle is also response responsive to to fasting induced
101:23 responsive to to fasting induced autophagy. It's responsive to exercise
101:25 autophagy. It's responsive to exercise induced autophagy. By the way, the
101:27 induced autophagy. By the way, the exercise again, it's increasing energy
101:29 exercise again, it's increasing energy expenditure. So, at this end of the day,
101:31 expenditure. So, at this end of the day, you're you're getting into that sort of
101:33 you're you're getting into that sort of ketosis, right, state, the metabolic
101:35 ketosis, right, state, the metabolic switch. So, um, there are studies
101:38 switch. So, um, there are studies showing that there's a signal there. Uh,
101:40 showing that there's a signal there. Uh, but, you know, for some people it's not
101:42 but, you know, for some people it's not enough. Well, it's not enough. We don't
101:43 enough. Well, it's not enough. We don't really know and you can't go off the
101:45 really know and you can't go off the animal data. And, you know, I think to
101:47 animal data. And, you know, I think to some degree it's going to be hard to go
101:49 some degree it's going to be hard to go get a liver. I mean, maybe we'll have
101:50 get a liver. I mean, maybe we'll have some tools soon that we can easily
101:53 some tools soon that we can easily access, you know, liver biopsy and
101:54 access, you know, liver biopsy and that'd be great for many reasons, right?
101:56 that'd be great for many reasons, right? Not just looking at autophagy. But I
101:59 Not just looking at autophagy. But I think that to some degree you kind of
102:00 think that to some degree you kind of just have to know that okay autophagy is
102:04 just have to know that okay autophagy is happening right now in our in our cells
102:07 happening right now in our in our cells like so we know that it's activated by
102:10 like so we know that it's activated by like fasting by exercise by these types
102:12 like fasting by exercise by these types of stress and so why wouldn't it be
102:14 of stress and so why wouldn't it be increased somewhat and and when I say
102:16 increased somewhat and and when I say autophagy I'm talking about clearing out
102:19 autophagy I'm talking about clearing out gunk that's built up in your cell you
102:21 gunk that's built up in your cell you know throughout the day we're talking
102:22 know throughout the day we're talking about pieces of DNA fragments of DNA
102:25 about pieces of DNA fragments of DNA we're talking about protein aggregates
102:26 we're talking about protein aggregates that didn't get they're either properly
102:29 that didn't get they're either properly like not properly folding or they're not
102:31 like not properly folding or they're not being degraded, right? All sorts of
102:33 being degraded, right? All sorts of stuff, right? And it's important. This
102:34 stuff, right? And it's important. This is a cleanup process. It's important.
102:36 is a cleanup process. It's important. And so, again, that's another part of
102:38 And so, again, that's another part of the metabolic switch that I think is
102:41 the metabolic switch that I think is it's important to think about because we
102:43 it's important to think about because we are really obsessed with anabolic,
102:45 are really obsessed with anabolic, anabolic, is it anabolic? It's great.
102:47 anabolic, is it anabolic? It's great. You do want to you definitely want to
102:48 You do want to you definitely want to grow muscle, right? You do you do want
102:49 grow muscle, right? You do you do want to grow new brain cells and stuff, too.
102:51 to grow new brain cells and stuff, too. But but you also want to repair and you
102:53 But but you also want to repair and you want to have recovery and and that's
102:55 want to have recovery and and that's that's another you know it's like the
102:57 that's another you know it's like the yin and the yang right you kind of want
102:59 yin and the yang right you kind of want both.
103:00 both. >> So I think that's important to think
103:01 >> So I think that's important to think about as well. Um and fasting
103:03 about as well. Um and fasting intermittent fasting I do I like the
103:05 intermittent fasting I do I like the daily metabolic switch. It may not be
103:06 daily metabolic switch. It may not be for everyone. You know I mean like I
103:08 for everyone. You know I mean like I said it's not I do think that you can
103:10 said it's not I do think that you can find other ways to get there. Exercise
103:12 find other ways to get there. Exercise being the big one. Some people do
103:14 being the big one. Some people do caloric restriction. Some people don't
103:16 caloric restriction. Some people don't need to. Caloric restriction is
103:17 need to. Caloric restriction is something that helps if you're trying to
103:19 something that helps if you're trying to lose weight, right? Um, it helps if
103:21 lose weight, right? Um, it helps if you're trying to lose visceral fat. It's
103:23 you're trying to lose visceral fat. It's one of the main ways you can do it.
103:24 one of the main ways you can do it. Intermittent fasting, caloric
103:26 Intermittent fasting, caloric restriction, exercise, aerobic exercise
103:28 restriction, exercise, aerobic exercise that helps lose visceral fat. But I
103:30 that helps lose visceral fat. But I mean, obviously, we don't always want to
103:32 mean, obviously, we don't always want to be in a caloric deficit, but we always
103:33 be in a caloric deficit, but we always don't want to be constantly eating
103:34 don't want to be constantly eating either. Mhm.
103:35 either. Mhm. >> And that's why it comes down to I think
103:37 >> And that's why it comes down to I think the simple rule for people like if
103:38 the simple rule for people like if they're going to do some sort of
103:40 they're going to do some sort of metabolic switch, some sort of
103:42 metabolic switch, some sort of intermittent fast, it would be like,
103:43 intermittent fast, it would be like, okay, let's try to at least stop eating
103:45 okay, let's try to at least stop eating 3 hours before bed because then you're
103:47 3 hours before bed because then you're at least going to be extending that fast
103:48 at least going to be extending that fast somewhat by 3 hours, right? So I think
103:51 somewhat by 3 hours, right? So I think that's and plus you're getting that the
103:53 that's and plus you're getting that the cardiovascular benefits that are really
103:55 cardiovascular benefits that are really seem to be important and then not eating
103:57 seem to be important and then not eating at night. So there's all these studies
103:59 at night. So there's all these studies that have come out of Israel. I think
104:01 that have come out of Israel. I think it's is it Jacobitz? Jigabitz and Freud,
104:04 it's is it Jacobitz? Jigabitz and Freud, they're two researchers. Um, I mean,
104:06 they're two researchers. Um, I mean, Sash and Panda, I remember years ago,
104:08 Sash and Panda, I remember years ago, showed me one of the studies that was
104:09 showed me one of the studies that was like published in science showing that
104:11 like published in science showing that if you have the same exact meal, same
104:13 if you have the same exact meal, same calorie intake, same composition,
104:15 calorie intake, same composition, macronutrient composition in the
104:17 macronutrient composition in the morning, the afternoon, and the evening,
104:19 morning, the afternoon, and the evening, the insulin response is like is
104:21 the insulin response is like is different. Like you're the most insulin
104:23 different. Like you're the most insulin sensitive early in the morning. As you
104:25 sensitive early in the morning. As you start to go towards the evening and
104:26 start to go towards the evening and particularly three hours before your
104:29 particularly three hours before your natural bedtime, you your mel your
104:30 natural bedtime, you your mel your melatonin levels naturally rise, right?
104:32 melatonin levels naturally rise, right? And as you know, you know, melatonin is
104:35 And as you know, you know, melatonin is important for the onset of sleep and and
104:37 important for the onset of sleep and and preparing the body for sleep, but it's
104:39 preparing the body for sleep, but it's also preparing the other organs for rest
104:41 also preparing the other organs for rest and recovery, including the pancreas,
104:42 and recovery, including the pancreas, which is making insulin. And so, you're
104:45 which is making insulin. And so, you're not making as much insulin when it's
104:47 not making as much insulin when it's closer to your natural bedtime because
104:48 closer to your natural bedtime because of the melatonin levels that are rising.
104:51 of the melatonin levels that are rising. And so you don't want to be eating
104:53 And so you don't want to be eating particularly a carbohydrate- richch
104:54 particularly a carbohydrate- richch meal, but a meal, you're not going to be
104:56 meal, but a meal, you're not going to be as as insulin sensitive
104:57 as as insulin sensitive >> in the last three hours before sleep.
104:59 >> in the last three hours before sleep. >> Yeah. When you're starting to get into
105:00 >> Yeah. When you're starting to get into that melatonin rising phase of, you
105:04 that melatonin rising phase of, you know, of of your cycle.
105:06 know, of of your cycle. >> Yeah. It's interesting. I I think when
105:08 >> Yeah. It's interesting. I I think when people hear, "Okay, you're most insulin
105:10 people hear, "Okay, you're most insulin sensitive in the morning. That would be
105:12 sensitive in the morning. That would be the time to eat your biggest meal." But
105:13 the time to eat your biggest meal." But then people say, "Wait, but then I'm
105:14 then people say, "Wait, but then I'm trying to fast and I'm trying to
105:16 trying to fast and I'm trying to exercise and like how do I do this?" I
105:17 exercise and like how do I do this?" I think that's where for them the
105:19 think that's where for them the confusion comes in. And it to me it's
105:20 confusion comes in. And it to me it's very simple. Uh just because your
105:22 very simple. Uh just because your insulin sensitivity is highest first
105:24 insulin sensitivity is highest first thing in the morning doesn't mean you
105:26 thing in the morning doesn't mean you have to eat right away. I mean it just
105:27 have to eat right away. I mean it just means avoid eating too close to bedtime
105:31 means avoid eating too close to bedtime right sometime during the day. And also
105:32 right sometime during the day. And also if you exercise fasted or after a small
105:35 if you exercise fasted or after a small snack it's kind of interesting when
105:36 snack it's kind of interesting when Stacy Sim said not everyone should
105:38 Stacy Sim said not everyone should exercise fasted. She said especially a
105:40 exercise fasted. She said especially a lot of women don't like to do that. She
105:41 lot of women don't like to do that. She didn't say eat a meal. She said like
105:43 didn't say eat a meal. She said like have a scoop of whey protein with some I
105:45 have a scoop of whey protein with some I think she said with like some almond
105:46 think she said with like some almond milk in it. And it and you couldn't
105:48 milk in it. And it and you couldn't believe the response on the internet. It
105:50 believe the response on the internet. It was like vindication, right? And I get
105:53 was like vindication, right? And I get it. It was like it vindicated people's
105:54 it. It was like it vindicated people's experience like, "Oh, thank you. Thank
105:56 experience like, "Oh, thank you. Thank you." And it told me something really
105:58 you." And it told me something really important about the kind of sociology of
106:00 important about the kind of sociology of what we do, which is when something
106:02 what we do, which is when something validates people's experience, they they
106:06 validates people's experience, they they love it. But it doesn't mean that the
106:08 love it. But it doesn't mean that the things that work for other people don't
106:10 things that work for other people don't work. And I think that that's the the
106:12 work. And I think that that's the the part that gets lost. And so if a study
106:15 part that gets lost. And so if a study shows that insulin sensitivity is
106:16 shows that insulin sensitivity is highest in the morning, but you can only
106:18 highest in the morning, but you can only exercise first thing in the morning,
106:20 exercise first thing in the morning, what do you do? You know, so um you do
106:22 what do you do? You know, so um you do the best you can. Right. Right. I think
106:24 the best you can. Right. Right. I think is what it comes down to. In fact, I
106:26 is what it comes down to. In fact, I meant to ask you earlier and this is a
106:27 meant to ask you earlier and this is a good time to um to talk about this. uh
106:30 good time to um to talk about this. uh you've described that if you are
106:33 you've described that if you are slightly sleepd deprived, so not four
106:35 slightly sleepd deprived, so not four hours per night or an allnighter, but if
106:37 hours per night or an allnighter, but if you've only slept five or let's say
106:39 you've only slept five or let's say you're getting an hour or two less than
106:40 you're getting an hour or two less than your normal ration of sleep, there's
106:42 your normal ration of sleep, there's some pretty significant inflammation
106:44 some pretty significant inflammation that's that that occurs. That's not
106:46 that's that that occurs. That's not good. But I've heard you cover that
106:49 good. But I've heard you cover that exercising can actually offset some of
106:51 exercising can actually offset some of that inflammation. This answers a a an
106:53 that inflammation. This answers a a an important and common question, which is
106:55 important and common question, which is if I have to pick between sleep and
106:57 if I have to pick between sleep and exercise, what do I do? Um, and it
107:00 exercise, what do I do? Um, and it sounds like if it's one night poor
107:02 sounds like if it's one night poor sleep, exercise, but you don't want to
107:05 sleep, exercise, but you don't want to make it a habit. That's Do I have that
107:07 make it a habit. That's Do I have that right?
107:07 right? >> Yeah. I mean, so this this data, a lot
107:10 >> Yeah. I mean, so this this data, a lot of it actually comes from you can cause
107:12 of it actually comes from you can cause even acute insulin resistance after like
107:15 even acute insulin resistance after like a night of of sleep deprivation.
107:17 a night of of sleep deprivation. Certainly after two to three nights of
107:19 Certainly after two to three nights of sleep deprivation. And you know, again,
107:21 sleep deprivation. And you know, again, a lot of that's coming down to some of
107:23 a lot of that's coming down to some of the things we've already talked about.
107:25 the things we've already talked about. And uh but exercise can help basically
107:29 And uh but exercise can help basically negate a lot of that. And I learned that
107:32 negate a lot of that. And I learned that firsthand through experience when I was
107:34 firsthand through experience when I was wearing a continuous glucose monitor uh
107:36 wearing a continuous glucose monitor uh and when I was a new parent. Of course,
107:38 and when I was a new parent. Of course, you're not getting enough sleep. And so
107:40 you're not getting enough sleep. And so that's I learned it before I actually
107:42 that's I learned it before I actually dove into the science about it. I I
107:44 dove into the science about it. I I learned about it through my own data
107:46 learned about it through my own data where I was, you know, I wasn't
107:48 where I was, you know, I wasn't exercising as much and particularly in
107:49 exercising as much and particularly in the first month really like you're kind
107:51 the first month really like you're kind of in a cave as a new mom. You don't
107:52 of in a cave as a new mom. You don't really you're not really exercising much
107:54 really you're not really exercising much at all. evolution wants the the baby to
107:56 at all. evolution wants the the baby to survive.
107:57 survive. >> You're recovering, too. I mean, child
107:58 >> You're recovering, too. I mean, child birth is a very it's a very traumatic
108:01 birth is a very it's a very traumatic process on your body.
108:02 process on your body. >> And so, um, I noticed that my my glucose
108:05 >> And so, um, I noticed that my my glucose response was like it was like
108:06 response was like it was like pre-diabetic and I was like, what is
108:08 pre-diabetic and I was like, what is going on? And um and that's when I
108:11 going on? And um and that's when I started looking into the literature and
108:14 started looking into the literature and happened to be around the same time when
108:16 happened to be around the same time when I was then starting up my at the time I
108:18 I was then starting up my at the time I was doing spin classes and then it was
108:20 was doing spin classes and then it was very clear to me it was like I do these
108:22 very clear to me it was like I do these high intensity interval training classes
108:24 high intensity interval training classes even just twice a week and it was like
108:27 even just twice a week and it was like almost completely negating what I had
108:28 almost completely negating what I had seen previously of my my glucose being
108:30 seen previously of my my glucose being my fasting glucose being really high and
108:32 my fasting glucose being really high and also my postprandial glucose being
108:34 also my postprandial glucose being higher than than usual. And so um I
108:36 higher than than usual. And so um I looked into the studies and there's now
108:38 looked into the studies and there's now you can you can find many studies out
108:40 you can you can find many studies out there and it really I mean obviously
108:41 there and it really I mean obviously exercise is one of the best thing you
108:42 exercise is one of the best thing you can do to improve insulin sensitivity
108:46 can do to improve insulin sensitivity and to also bring glucose into your
108:48 and to also bring glucose into your cells right and so that's part of what
108:50 cells right and so that's part of what you were talking about with oh you're
108:52 you were talking about with oh you're more insulin sensitive during the
108:53 more insulin sensitive during the morning at least during the evening and
108:55 morning at least during the evening and I also mentioned that but guess what
108:56 I also mentioned that but guess what there's levers you can pull that like
108:58 there's levers you can pull that like change the equation and exercise is a
109:00 change the equation and exercise is a big one right if you're if you're
109:01 big one right if you're if you're exercising you're becoming more insulin
109:03 exercising you're becoming more insulin sensitive you're increasing more glucose
109:05 sensitive you're increasing more glucose transporters on your muscle that's
109:07 transporters on your muscle that's causing glucose to go in easier, right?
109:08 causing glucose to go in easier, right? There's so there's lots of ways around
109:11 There's so there's lots of ways around some of these rules that we hear about.
109:13 some of these rules that we hear about. >> But with the with the sleep loss, it
109:16 >> But with the with the sleep loss, it really is it's it's interesting because
109:18 really is it's it's interesting because people like when they don't get sleep,
109:19 people like when they don't get sleep, the last thing they want to do is work
109:21 the last thing they want to do is work out. And obviously like you don't want
109:23 out. And obviously like you don't want to do like the hardest thing, especially
109:25 to do like the hardest thing, especially if you're really like sleep deprived a
109:27 if you're really like sleep deprived a lot. But it really does help negate the
109:30 lot. But it really does help negate the inflammation and the insulin
109:32 inflammation and the insulin insensitivity that can happen after even
109:34 insensitivity that can happen after even just a single night of sleep. And
109:35 just a single night of sleep. And there's studies out there showing that.
109:36 there's studies out there showing that. And then there's also these longitudinal
109:39 And then there's also these longitudinal studies that have been done looking at,
109:41 studies that have been done looking at, you know, people. So obviously poor
109:43 you know, people. So obviously poor sleep is a problem, you know, in the
109:45 sleep is a problem, you know, in the United States. I mean, a lot of people
109:46 United States. I mean, a lot of people are are sleeping fewer than seven hours
109:48 are are sleeping fewer than seven hours a night. And um but there's studies out
109:50 a night. And um but there's studies out there that have looked at people that
109:51 there that have looked at people that sleep either shorter, so fewer than
109:54 sleep either shorter, so fewer than seven hours a night, or they're sleeping
109:55 seven hours a night, or they're sleeping more than 10, right? So you don't want
109:57 more than 10, right? So you don't want to be on either end of the spectrum. And
109:58 to be on either end of the spectrum. And usually like sleeping long, there's like
110:00 usually like sleeping long, there's like other disease states associated with it,
110:02 other disease states associated with it, right? But um so people that are
110:04 right? But um so people that are sleeping, you know, not getting enough
110:06 sleeping, you know, not getting enough sleep, they have a higher all-c cause
110:07 sleep, they have a higher all-c cause mortality than people that are getting
110:09 mortality than people that are getting at least 7 to n hours of sleep. And the
110:11 at least 7 to n hours of sleep. And the same for like more than 10, they have a
110:13 same for like more than 10, they have a higher all cause mortality than people
110:14 higher all cause mortality than people getting between seven and and nine. But
110:17 getting between seven and and nine. But if people exercise, if they're meeting
110:20 if people exercise, if they're meeting the physical activity guidelines right
110:22 the physical activity guidelines right now, which is 75 minutes of vigorous
110:24 now, which is 75 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise and 150 minutes a
110:26 intensity exercise and 150 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise,
110:28 week of moderate intensity exercise, >> right? Well, cuz the guidelines are
110:30 >> right? Well, cuz the guidelines are helpful, but they're just guidelines
110:31 helpful, but they're just guidelines because I mean, doing the sort of
110:33 because I mean, doing the sort of workout that you're doing, working up to
110:36 workout that you're doing, working up to doubles and triples and singles on
110:38 doubles and triples and singles on compound lifts and then doing uh cardio,
110:41 compound lifts and then doing uh cardio, like getting your heart rate elevated
110:43 like getting your heart rate elevated and then doing addition of that and then
110:44 and then doing addition of that and then your hiking. I mean, that it's just uh I
110:47 your hiking. I mean, that it's just uh I think the guidelines are a good jumping
110:48 think the guidelines are a good jumping off place for people to think about.
110:50 off place for people to think about. Well, we can talk about that because
110:52 Well, we can talk about that because there's a new study that kind of throws
110:55 there's a new study that kind of throws you that on the head, but but the point
110:56 you that on the head, but but the point is is that if they if people were
110:58 is is that if they if people were exercising within the guideline range
111:00 exercising within the guideline range that they basically if they weren't
111:01 that they basically if they weren't getting enough sleep, if they were
111:02 getting enough sleep, if they were getting fewer than 7 hours of sleep per
111:05 getting fewer than 7 hours of sleep per night, that they they basically had the
111:07 night, that they they basically had the same mortality rate as people that were
111:08 same mortality rate as people that were getting enough sleep. So, it's
111:09 getting enough sleep. So, it's offsetting some of that unhealthy stuff,
111:11 offsetting some of that unhealthy stuff, the insulin resistance, you know, the
111:13 the insulin resistance, you know, the inflammation that we know, you know, can
111:16 inflammation that we know, you know, can lead to diseases and early mortality. So
111:18 lead to diseases and early mortality. So find the time to exercise folks. But of
111:21 find the time to exercise folks. But of course
111:22 course >> periods of time like after a new child
111:25 >> periods of time like after a new child or new job or particularly stressful
111:28 or new job or particularly stressful time.
111:28 time. >> I don't know any human being. I don't
111:30 >> I don't know any human being. I don't care how driven.
111:31 care how driven. >> Um okay there's probably
111:34 >> Um okay there's probably >> Doggins and Cam Haynes being probably
111:36 >> Doggins and Cam Haynes being probably exceptions and a few others you know. Um
111:38 exceptions and a few others you know. Um I don't ride out and a few others but
111:40 I don't ride out and a few others but people who everybody h else um seems to
111:45 people who everybody h else um seems to have periods of time where they need to
111:46 have periods of time where they need to just back off a bit.
111:47 just back off a bit. >> Mhm.
111:48 >> Mhm. >> I know I certainly do and that I feel
111:50 >> I know I certainly do and that I feel like I'm doing pretty well for myself
111:52 like I'm doing pretty well for myself despite you know and and I think that it
111:54 despite you know and and I think that it it's important that people not hold
111:57 it's important that people not hold themselves to a standard that is going
111:58 themselves to a standard that is going to make them sick or injured or
112:01 to make them sick or injured or miserable beyond Yeah. You also want to
112:03 miserable beyond Yeah. You also want to continue to enjoy healthpromoting
112:05 continue to enjoy healthpromoting activities. Right.
112:06 activities. Right. >> Right. I mean, you got to say like
112:07 >> Right. I mean, you got to say like what's your goal? Like your goal is to
112:09 what's your goal? Like your goal is to be healthy, to be happy. If you're
112:11 be healthy, to be happy. If you're taking it to this extreme where you're
112:13 taking it to this extreme where you're trying to just go to the extreme, like
112:15 trying to just go to the extreme, like go hard, go home. And it's you're
112:18 go hard, go home. And it's you're sacrificing your happiness, too. I mean,
112:20 sacrificing your happiness, too. I mean, then that's a problem, right? Because
112:22 then that's a problem, right? Because that's part of the equation. Happiness
112:23 that's part of the equation. Happiness is part of that healthy equation.
112:25 is part of that healthy equation. >> Health is a daily and lifelong thing,
112:27 >> Health is a daily and lifelong thing, but sometimes it means taking a day off.
112:29 but sometimes it means taking a day off. I think that's what people don't say.
112:31 I think that's what people don't say. Um, and I think it's in a time when
112:34 Um, and I think it's in a time when perhaps a lot of people aren't
112:35 perhaps a lot of people aren't exercising enough. So promoting the no
112:37 exercising enough. So promoting the no days off thing can be helpful. But for
112:40 days off thing can be helpful. But for those that are already,
112:42 those that are already, you know, forward center of mass, you
112:44 you know, forward center of mass, you know, coming off the accelerator can be
112:46 know, coming off the accelerator can be really useful.
112:47 really useful. >> Well, I also want to just mention
112:48 >> Well, I also want to just mention because, you know, we talked about my,
112:50 because, you know, we talked about my, you know, I I work out a lot and I I'm
112:53 you know, I I work out a lot and I I'm sort of addicted to it, but like not
112:54 sort of addicted to it, but like not everyone has the time
112:57 everyone has the time >> and motivation to to go spend an hour
113:01 >> and motivation to to go spend an hour block of time working out. And this is
113:03 block of time working out. And this is where I think the people can sigh a sigh
113:06 where I think the people can sigh a sigh of relief because there's now so much
113:08 of relief because there's now so much emerging data that have been coming out,
113:10 emerging data that have been coming out, you know, over the last decade on these
113:13 you know, over the last decade on these short bursts of physical activity that
113:16 short bursts of physical activity that add up. They add up and people aren't
113:19 add up. They add up and people aren't really thinking about them, you know,
113:21 really thinking about them, you know, counting towards adding up to to their
113:24 counting towards adding up to to their uh physical activity, you know,
113:26 uh physical activity, you know, requirements for the for the week. And
113:28 requirements for the for the week. And so there's these there's a lot of
113:30 so there's these there's a lot of studies now. There's on something called
113:32 studies now. There's on something called um vigorous intermittent lifestyle
113:34 um vigorous intermittent lifestyle physical activity, Vilpa studies. Have
113:36 physical activity, Vilpa studies. Have you heard of those?
113:36 you heard of those? >> Are these the exercise snacks?
113:38 >> Are these the exercise snacks? >> They're unstructured. They're
113:40 >> They're unstructured. They're unstructured. And not everyone likes the
113:42 unstructured. And not everyone likes the word exercise snacks. I mean, I I kind
113:43 word exercise snacks. I mean, I I kind of like it, but the unstructured
113:45 of like it, but the unstructured exercise. They're they're the they're
113:47 exercise. They're they're the they're the they're the moments in your life
113:48 the they're the moments in your life where you're taking advantage of
113:50 where you're taking advantage of everyday situations to get your heart
113:51 everyday situations to get your heart rate up, to move. And so that could be
113:53 rate up, to move. And so that could be I'm playing with my new puppy and I'm
113:55 I'm playing with my new puppy and I'm sprinting around with my new puppy. I'm,
113:57 sprinting around with my new puppy. I'm, you know, chasing my grandkid around.
113:59 you know, chasing my grandkid around. I'm playing tag or my child. I'm
114:01 I'm playing tag or my child. I'm sprinting up the stairs to get to my
114:03 sprinting up the stairs to get to my office. I'm running to catch the bus.
114:05 office. I'm running to catch the bus. I'm moving, right? And so, um,
114:08 I'm moving, right? And so, um, researchers, and there have been several
114:09 researchers, and there have been several studies on this now, researchers use
114:11 studies on this now, researchers use accelerometers rather than just relying
114:14 accelerometers rather than just relying on these questionnaires, which are, as
114:16 on these questionnaires, which are, as you know, you know, extremely
114:18 you know, you know, extremely unreliable. I mean, it's very hard for
114:19 unreliable. I mean, it's very hard for people to remember how much exercise you
114:21 people to remember how much exercise you sitting here asking me about my
114:23 sitting here asking me about my exercise. And there's always so much,
114:24 exercise. And there's always so much, you know, that you can be accurate when
114:26 you know, that you can be accurate when you're trying to recall that. So these
114:28 you're trying to recall that. So these accelerometers are are worn on people's
114:30 accelerometers are are worn on people's wrists and they're and they're measuring
114:31 wrists and they're and they're measuring like fast movement, the movement, right?
114:33 like fast movement, the movement, right? And so thousands and thousands, like
114:36 And so thousands and thousands, like hundreds of thousands of participants,
114:37 hundreds of thousands of participants, there's lots of data now showing that
114:40 there's lots of data now showing that people that are doing these like short
114:42 people that are doing these like short bursts at least a minute long, but up to
114:45 bursts at least a minute long, but up to three minutes, right? Where they're
114:47 three minutes, right? Where they're getting their they're moving. I'm saying
114:48 getting their they're moving. I'm saying they're getting their heart rate, but
114:49 they're getting their heart rate, but they're actually not measuring the heart
114:50 they're actually not measuring the heart rate in these days. moving faster with
114:52 rate in these days. moving faster with intent, right? They're they're jogging
114:54 intent, right? They're they're jogging or they're um you know, they're not of
114:57 or they're um you know, they're not of course there's the cases where they're
114:59 course there's the cases where they're actually exercising, but but the short
115:00 actually exercising, but but the short bursts of it um they're doing the things
115:03 bursts of it um they're doing the things that I just mentioned and it's having
115:06 that I just mentioned and it's having outsiz effects on on health outcomes.
115:08 outsiz effects on on health outcomes. So, for example, individuals that do on
115:11 So, for example, individuals that do on the high end, so they're doing, you
115:13 the high end, so they're doing, you know, 3 minutes of this short burst of
115:16 know, 3 minutes of this short burst of an unstructured type of exercise snack
115:18 an unstructured type of exercise snack and they do it three times a day. So
115:20 and they do it three times a day. So it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay,
115:23 it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay, this type of activity and it's
115:25 this type of activity and it's considered more vigorous because you're
115:27 considered more vigorous because you're the intent to move, right? That's more
115:29 the intent to move, right? That's more vigorous even though they're not
115:30 vigorous even though they're not measuring heart rate. That's associated
115:31 measuring heart rate. That's associated with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed
115:33 with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed mortality, 40% reduction in cancer
115:36 mortality, 40% reduction in cancer related mortality, a 50% reduction in
115:37 related mortality, a 50% reduction in cardiovascular related mortality. Nine
115:39 cardiovascular related mortality. Nine minutes a day. And this is even in
115:41 minutes a day. And this is even in people that don't identify as
115:43 people that don't identify as exercisers. So they're not the kind of
115:44 exercisers. So they're not the kind of people like you and I that go and
115:46 people like you and I that go and intentionally set out time to go to the
115:48 intentionally set out time to go to the gym. the people that just they're just
115:50 gym. the people that just they're just take they're they're doing those things
115:52 take they're they're doing those things right they're playing with their
115:52 right they're playing with their grandkids or their kids or their puppies
115:54 grandkids or their kids or their puppies or whatever and so um these moments they
115:57 or whatever and so um these moments they add up and I'm I'm citing one study but
116:00 add up and I'm I'm citing one study but you know it was a dose dependent effect
116:01 you know it was a dose dependent effect even doing three minutes a day you know
116:02 even doing three minutes a day you know there's a study in women showing you
116:04 there's a study in women showing you know three and a half minutes a day I
116:05 know three and a half minutes a day I mean they were having pretty profound
116:07 mean they were having pretty profound benefits on all cause mortality and
116:08 benefits on all cause mortality and cancer related mortality as well and
116:10 cancer related mortality as well and multiple studies now have shown this I
116:12 multiple studies now have shown this I mean this is like one study after
116:13 mean this is like one study after another after another I mean is is
116:15 another after another I mean is is undeniable that these short moments of
116:18 undeniable that these short moments of you you know, getting physically active
116:20 you you know, getting physically active active do add up and structured exercise
116:23 active do add up and structured exercise snacks can be part of that. Like maybe
116:26 snacks can be part of that. Like maybe you don't have a puppy, maybe you don't
116:27 you don't have a puppy, maybe you don't have a kid yet, maybe you work from home
116:28 have a kid yet, maybe you work from home and you're not taking these, you know,
116:30 and you're not taking these, you know, maybe your situation is different than
116:31 maybe your situation is different than what I described, but you can take these
116:34 what I described, but you can take these moments to do exercise snacks and that
116:36 moments to do exercise snacks and that can be a minute long and it can be like
116:38 can be a minute long and it can be like there was there's studies showing that
116:40 there was there's studies showing that two two studies and I'll talk about one
116:43 two two studies and I'll talk about one showing that getting up and doing 10
116:45 showing that getting up and doing 10 body weight squats every 45 minutes over
116:48 body weight squats every 45 minutes over a 7 and 1 half hour workday
116:51 a 7 and 1 half hour workday is better at regulating blood glucose
116:53 is better at regulating blood glucose levels than a 30-inut minute walk,
116:55 levels than a 30-inut minute walk, right? So, you get up and you do 10 body
116:57 right? So, you get up and you do 10 body weight squats. Pretty easy. I mean, it's
116:59 weight squats. Pretty easy. I mean, it's also very good to break up that
117:00 also very good to break up that sedentary time.
117:01 sedentary time. >> So, being sedentary means like you're
117:04 >> So, being sedentary means like you're not moving. That also is an independent
117:07 not moving. That also is an independent risk factor. Even if you do exercise for
117:09 risk factor. Even if you do exercise for things like cancer being a big one,
117:11 things like cancer being a big one, although I would say if you're doing a
117:12 although I would say if you're doing a lot of exercise, you're doing pretty
117:14 lot of exercise, you're doing pretty good. But I just like to mention that as
117:16 good. But I just like to mention that as well.
117:16 well. >> I would say being sedentary is a disease
117:19 >> I would say being sedentary is a disease actually. That's that's something I mean
117:20 actually. That's that's something I mean people aren't thinking about it but
117:22 people aren't thinking about it but >> even in the absence of what uh Llay
117:24 >> even in the absence of what uh Llay Norton calls energy toxicity like even
117:27 Norton calls energy toxicity like even if somebody is um at maintenance or
117:29 if somebody is um at maintenance or below maintenance calories if they're
117:31 below maintenance calories if they're sedentary that's that's problematic. We
117:33 sedentary that's that's problematic. We do have data for one measuring cardio
117:35 do have data for one measuring cardio cardiorespiratory fitness which is a
117:38 cardiorespiratory fitness which is a marker of cardiovascular health being
117:40 marker of cardiovascular health being physically fit right obviously the gold
117:43 physically fit right obviously the gold standard of that would be measuring V2
117:44 standard of that would be measuring V2 max your maximum oxygen uptake during
117:46 max your maximum oxygen uptake during maximum exercise a lot of studies do not
117:49 maximum exercise a lot of studies do not actually directly measure V2 max you
117:52 actually directly measure V2 max you know maybe sub a submaximal treadmill
117:55 know maybe sub a submaximal treadmill test or they'll estimate it right
117:57 test or they'll estimate it right there's a calculation out there you can
117:58 there's a calculation out there you can do kind of what your if you wear like an
118:00 do kind of what your if you wear like an Apple watch or some sort of fitness
118:02 Apple watch or some sort of fitness tracker what they do is which is you
118:04 tracker what they do is which is you know it's looking at the distance that
118:06 know it's looking at the distance that you run and the amount of time it takes
118:07 you run and the amount of time it takes right so like a 12 minute run would be
118:11 right so like a 12 minute run would be an example people do that you you run as
118:13 an example people do that you you run as fast as you can and maintain that pace
118:15 fast as you can and maintain that pace for 12 minutes you're not going all out
118:16 for 12 minutes you're not going all out obviously
118:17 obviously >> you see how far you can go
118:19 >> you see how far you can go >> yeah and then and there's a calculation
118:20 >> yeah and then and there's a calculation out there that's done to kind of
118:21 out there that's done to kind of estimate your V2 max and so some studies
118:24 estimate your V2 max and so some studies or a lot of studies are actually doing
118:25 or a lot of studies are actually doing sort of an estimation of
118:26 sort of an estimation of cardiorespiratory fitness so
118:28 cardiorespiratory fitness so cardiorespiratory fitness
118:30 cardiorespiratory fitness >> um is really important I think for you
118:33 >> um is really important I think for you know marking your health and longevity
118:36 know marking your health and longevity and you know if you have a low
118:38 and you know if you have a low cardiorary fitness most of the times you
118:40 cardiorary fitness most of the times you are not physically active right and
118:44 are not physically active right and there are studies showing that if you
118:45 there are studies showing that if you don't have any you know diagnosible
118:47 don't have any you know diagnosible diseases so you're not insulin resistant
118:49 diseases so you're not insulin resistant you don't have cardiovascular disease
118:50 you don't have cardiovascular disease you don't have cancer all that stuff
118:51 you don't have cancer all that stuff right you're not
118:53 right you're not >> um obese but you have a low
118:54 >> um obese but you have a low cardiorespiratory fitness it is as bad
118:58 cardiorespiratory fitness it is as bad or worse in terms of your all cause
119:01 or worse in terms of your all cause mortality you're you know predicting
119:02 mortality you're you know predicting mortality then having cardiovascular
119:06 mortality then having cardiovascular disease or smoking or having
119:07 disease or smoking or having hypertension or these things that we
119:09 hypertension or these things that we know that are really bad for health
119:10 know that are really bad for health right so being sedentary as I'm saying
119:13 right so being sedentary as I'm saying it's a low cardiorespiratory fitness I
119:14 it's a low cardiorespiratory fitness I guess it's not exactly correct it's a
119:16 guess it's not exactly correct it's a little bit I'm stretching it a little
119:18 little bit I'm stretching it a little bit but cardiorespiratory fitness is a
119:20 bit but cardiorespiratory fitness is a marker of I would say fitness and so um
119:24 marker of I would say fitness and so um that's why I think being sedentary is is
119:26 that's why I think being sedentary is is a disease and people with a low
119:27 a disease and people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness I mean if you
119:30 cardiorespiratory fitness I mean if you go anywhere above at, you know, from low
119:33 go anywhere above at, you know, from low to like low normal, that's associated
119:35 to like low normal, that's associated with a 2-year increase in life
119:36 with a 2-year increase in life expectancy. If you go from low to um
119:40 expectancy. If you go from low to um high normal, you know, that's like
119:43 high normal, you know, that's like almost a threeyear increase in life
119:44 almost a threeyear increase in life expectancy. And if you go up to high,
119:46 expectancy. And if you go up to high, then you're talking about a 5year
119:47 then you're talking about a 5year increase in life expectancy compared to
119:48 increase in life expectancy compared to when you were at low. But again, I'm I'm
119:51 when you were at low. But again, I'm I'm not talking about V2X. I'm talking about
119:52 not talking about V2X. I'm talking about cardiorespiratory fitness. And it's it's
119:54 cardiorespiratory fitness. And it's it's really important. Here's another reason
119:55 really important. Here's another reason why I think that it's it's really bad.
119:57 why I think that it's it's really bad. So these these studies were done. By the
119:59 So these these studies were done. By the way, cardiorespiratory fitness is
120:00 way, cardiorespiratory fitness is improved by aerobic exercise in general.
120:04 improved by aerobic exercise in general. That's great. And then, you know, if you
120:05 That's great. And then, you know, if you if you add in highintensity interval
120:07 if you add in highintensity interval training in their mix, that also really
120:09 training in their mix, that also really helps because there are some people that
120:10 helps because there are some people that don't respond necessarily to
120:12 don't respond necessarily to >> just doing cardio. Yeah. About 40% of
120:15 >> just doing cardio. Yeah. About 40% of people don't respond. So, mixing in the
120:17 people don't respond. So, mixing in the high intensity is good. If you're
120:18 high intensity is good. If you're physically active and doing that, that's
120:19 physically active and doing that, that's great. If you're doing these short
120:21 great. If you're doing these short bursts of physical activity, also good
120:23 bursts of physical activity, also good because it's a little bit of a
120:24 because it's a little bit of a highintensity,
120:26 highintensity, you know, exercise, right? a m a minute
120:28 you know, exercise, right? a m a minute running around chasing your your
120:29 running around chasing your your grandkid or your puppy or your child,
120:31 grandkid or your puppy or your child, you know, that's that's that's
120:32 you know, that's that's that's >> taking the stairs. It's amazing. I was
120:34 >> taking the stairs. It's amazing. I was traveling sprinting up the stairs,
120:35 traveling sprinting up the stairs, sprinting up the stairs or if you're
120:37 sprinting up the stairs or if you're carrying a lot of luggage in the
120:38 carrying a lot of luggage in the airport, like going up the stairs or
120:40 airport, like going up the stairs or down the stairs, it's wild when you go
120:42 down the stairs, it's wild when you go to the airport. I I like to notice this.
120:45 to the airport. I I like to notice this. Um, nobody takes the stairs.
120:48 Um, nobody takes the stairs. >> Yeah.
120:49 >> Yeah. >> Down or up. Like the escalators are
120:51 >> Down or up. Like the escalators are there and I'm always like, "Oh, there's
120:52 there and I'm always like, "Oh, there's a great opportunity to get some extra
120:53 a great opportunity to get some extra steps and some extra work." But I
120:55 steps and some extra work." But I realize that's me. Um, but it's just
120:57 realize that's me. Um, but it's just it's striking. Um, and if you're in DC
121:00 it's striking. Um, and if you're in DC ever, you know, they have these long
121:01 ever, you know, they have these long stairwells that go um up from the from
121:04 stairwells that go um up from the from the public transport and that's a
121:06 the public transport and that's a workout, you know, and I'm always like,
121:08 workout, you know, and I'm always like, "Oh, free workout." Like, you know, like
121:10 "Oh, free workout." Like, you know, like get it in my day. I mean, it sucks to
121:12 get it in my day. I mean, it sucks to arrive a little bit more sweaty than you
121:13 arrive a little bit more sweaty than you would otherwise, but I just think if
121:15 would otherwise, but I just think if this were an experiment and we were
121:16 this were an experiment and we were looking at mice and we were videotaping
121:18 looking at mice and we were videotaping from above, I always think to myself
121:20 from above, I always think to myself like, which mouse am I going to be? All
121:21 like, which mouse am I going to be? All the mice are going up the automatic
121:23 the mice are going up the automatic elevator. It makes sense. and then why
121:25 elevator. It makes sense. and then why they would want to do that. But these
121:27 they would want to do that. But these opportunities for exercise are clearly
121:28 opportunities for exercise are clearly there. I I feel like this is also I I
121:31 there. I I feel like this is also I I would be remiss if I didn't do a quick
121:32 would be remiss if I didn't do a quick shout out to Steve Magnus. Do you follow
121:34 shout out to Steve Magnus. Do you follow ever see his content?
121:36 ever see his content? >> I've interacted with him. Yeah,
121:37 >> I've interacted with him. Yeah, >> I've never met him, but um people should
121:39 >> I've never met him, but um people should >> on Twitter. I've interacted with him on
121:40 >> on Twitter. I've interacted with him on X.
121:41 X. >> Yeah. Uh people should um I think give
121:42 >> Yeah. Uh people should um I think give him a follow. He's a very accomplished
121:44 him a follow. He's a very accomplished runner uh in his past, a running coach I
121:46 runner uh in his past, a running coach I believe as well and um and a scientist
121:48 believe as well and um and a scientist and I think has the best take on sort of
121:52 and I think has the best take on sort of measuring V2 max. It's kind of
121:54 measuring V2 max. It's kind of interesting. You know, he has a theory
121:56 interesting. You know, he has a theory which I think is strongly backed that
121:58 which I think is strongly backed that most measures of V2 max are not measures
122:00 most measures of V2 max are not measures of V2 max at all. But one of the best
122:02 of V2 max at all. But one of the best measures of cardiorespiratory fitness is
122:04 measures of cardiorespiratory fitness is how fast can you run a mile.
122:06 how fast can you run a mile. >> And he says people are generally
122:07 >> And he says people are generally surprised how easy the easy stuff should
122:09 surprised how easy the easy stuff should feel and how hard the hard stuff should
122:12 feel and how hard the hard stuff should feel. So, I want just want to credit
122:13 feel. So, I want just want to credit Steve for saying that. So, I try and
122:14 Steve for saying that. So, I try and keep that in mind around my cardio and
122:16 keep that in mind around my cardio and do some high I do less of what you do. I
122:19 do some high I do less of what you do. I I confess um some high-intensity
122:21 I confess um some high-intensity interval train type stuff and then some
122:23 interval train type stuff and then some a lot of walks, a lot of hikes.
122:24 a lot of walks, a lot of hikes. >> Yeah.
122:25 >> Yeah. >> And I haven't formally measured my V2
122:27 >> And I haven't formally measured my V2 max in a while. But I think he just
122:29 max in a while. But I think he just nails it with that because I think
122:31 nails it with that because I think people think the 30 minute jog on the
122:32 people think the 30 minute jog on the treadmill where you get sweaty and
122:34 treadmill where you get sweaty and you're like ah like that's accomplishing
122:36 you're like ah like that's accomplishing what you want. Actually, there's a much
122:37 what you want. Actually, there's a much easier path to better health, which is
122:40 easier path to better health, which is what you do and more or less what Steve
122:42 what you do and more or less what Steve is describing as well. Yeah. Does that
122:45 is describing as well. Yeah. Does that square with your your experience?
122:46 square with your your experience? >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do I do mix
122:48 >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do I do mix in quite a bit of probably more more
122:50 in quite a bit of probably more more high-intensity interval training, but um
122:53 high-intensity interval training, but um you know, I don't feel like if I felt
122:56 you know, I don't feel like if I felt like it was like if I didn't feel good,
122:57 like it was like if I didn't feel good, I would I would toggle down the the
122:59 I would I would toggle down the the pedal, right? I wouldn't keep keep going
123:01 pedal, right? I wouldn't keep keep going on it. So, I think you have to again
123:02 on it. So, I think you have to again just listen to your body.
123:04 just listen to your body. >> You know, you don't want to overdo
123:05 >> You know, you don't want to overdo things. And I am I mean there are people
123:07 things. And I am I mean there are people out there that are really like endurance
123:09 out there that are really like endurance athletes that are you know like that's
123:12 athletes that are you know like that's not me. I'm a committed exerciser. I'm
123:14 not me. I'm a committed exerciser. I'm not I'm not necessarily an athlete. Um
123:17 not I'm not necessarily an athlete. Um but but yeah, so that would that's
123:19 but but yeah, so that would that's there's different I think levels here
123:21 there's different I think levels here and Steve is obviously athlete.
123:23 and Steve is obviously athlete. >> Anyway, I've I've learned from him
123:24 >> Anyway, I've I've learned from him around this topic. It's been it's been
123:27 around this topic. It's been it's been helpful.
123:28 helpful. >> I'd like to take a quick break and
123:30 >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors,
123:31 acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function. Last year, I became a Function
123:34 Function. Last year, I became a Function member after searching for the most
123:35 member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.
123:38 comprehensive approach to lab testing. Function provides over 100 advanced lab
123:40 Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of
123:42 tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health. This snapshot
123:45 your entire bodily health. This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart
123:46 offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune
123:48 health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much
123:50 functioning, nutrient levels, and much more. They've also recently added tests
123:52 more. They've also recently added tests for toxins such as BPA exposure from
123:54 for toxins such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics, and tests for PASES or
123:57 harmful plastics, and tests for PASES or forever chemicals. function not only
123:59 forever chemicals. function not only provides testing of over 100 biomarkers
124:01 provides testing of over 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health,
124:03 key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and
124:05 but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who
124:07 provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas. For
124:10 are expert in the relevant areas. For example, in one of my first tests with
124:11 example, in one of my first tests with function, I learned that I had elevated
124:13 function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood. Function
124:15 levels of mercury in my blood. Function not only helped me detect that, but
124:17 not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce
124:19 offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included
124:21 my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption. I've been
124:23 limiting my tuna consumption. I've been eating a lot of tuna while also making
124:24 eating a lot of tuna while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and
124:26 an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with knack and
124:27 supplementing with knack and acetylcyine, both of which can support
124:29 acetylcyine, both of which can support glutathione production and
124:31 glutathione production and detoxification. And I should say by
124:33 detoxification. And I should say by taking a second function test, that
124:35 taking a second function test, that approach worked. Comprehensive blood
124:36 approach worked. Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important. There's so
124:38 testing is vitally important. There's so many things related to your mental and
124:40 many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be
124:42 physical health that can only be detected in a blood test. The problem is
124:44 detected in a blood test. The problem is blood testing has always been very
124:45 blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated. In contrast,
124:48 expensive and complicated. In contrast, I've been super impressed by Function's
124:49 I've been super impressed by Function's simplicity and at the level of cost. It
124:52 simplicity and at the level of cost. It is very affordable. As a consequence, I
124:54 is very affordable. As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific
124:55 decided to join their scientific advisory board, and I'm thrilled that
124:57 advisory board, and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast. If you'd
124:59 they're sponsoring the podcast. If you'd like to try Function, you can go to
125:01 like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.
125:03 functionhealth.com/huberman. Function currently has a wait list of
125:05 Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're
125:07 over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Hubberman
125:09 offering early access to Hubberman podcast listeners. Again, that's
125:11 podcast listeners. Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman
125:13 functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function. I want
125:16 to get early access to Function. I want to ask you about creatine. Yeah.
125:18 to ask you about creatine. Yeah. >> I'm 50. I started taking weight training
125:21 >> I'm 50. I started taking weight training and running when I was like 16 maybe.
125:24 and running when I was like 16 maybe. Yeah. And I started taking creatine cuz
125:27 Yeah. And I started taking creatine cuz back then I was skinny. I wanted to put
125:29 back then I was skinny. I wanted to put on muscle. I think creatine was sort of
125:31 on muscle. I think creatine was sort of first discussed or released back then
125:34 first discussed or released back then when I was maybe 18 or something like
125:36 when I was maybe 18 or something like that. Something like that. 18 19. Um so
125:39 that. Something like that. 18 19. Um so I've been taking a long long time.
125:40 I've been taking a long long time. >> Yeah.
125:41 >> Yeah. >> 5 to 10 grams. But the original
125:44 >> 5 to 10 grams. But the original protocol, which nobody does anymore, but
125:46 protocol, which nobody does anymore, but I confess I still do it cuz I enjoy it,
125:48 I confess I still do it cuz I enjoy it, was to take 5 g 3 to five times per day.
125:53 was to take 5 g 3 to five times per day. There was this loading phase and you
125:56 There was this loading phase and you would mix it with a little bit of grape
125:57 would mix it with a little bit of grape juice cuz the idea was you were supposed
125:58 juice cuz the idea was you were supposed to spike your insulin and then you get
126:00 to spike your insulin and then you get more into the muscles and then you had a
126:02 more into the muscles and then you had a maintenance dose which was five grams
126:04 maintenance dose which was five grams per day. Um, and the idea back then was
126:08 per day. Um, and the idea back then was that you need to do a wash out every 20
126:10 that you need to do a wash out every 20 weeks or so where you just stop taking
126:12 weeks or so where you just stop taking it, you urinate out a bunch of water,
126:13 it, you urinate out a bunch of water, and then you re reload. And I confess,
126:15 and then you re reload. And I confess, I've continued to do this minus the
126:17 I've continued to do this minus the grape juice, but occasionally I'll do
126:19 grape juice, but occasionally I'll do the grape juice thing. I don't think
126:20 the grape juice thing. I don't think there's any real merit to the loading
126:22 there's any real merit to the loading phase, maintenance phase idea. But back
126:26 phase, maintenance phase idea. But back then and still now, I feel like creatine
126:28 then and still now, I feel like creatine has made me feel great, um, stronger.
126:32 has made me feel great, um, stronger. Um, I did I wasn't aware of the
126:33 Um, I did I wasn't aware of the cognitive benefits. They weren't being
126:35 cognitive benefits. They weren't being studied back then.
126:36 studied back then. >> They weren't being studied back then.
126:37 >> They weren't being studied back then. But what are your thoughts on why
126:40 But what are your thoughts on why creatine suddenly has become this like
126:43 creatine suddenly has become this like banner supplements? It's like supplement
126:45 banner supplements? It's like supplement of the year. We should start a
126:46 of the year. We should start a supplement of the year thing, right? For
126:47 supplement of the year thing, right? For a while, I think vitamin D and melatonin
126:49 a while, I think vitamin D and melatonin came first. Um, we'll have to figure out
126:52 came first. Um, we'll have to figure out what years those were. Then, uh, I feel
126:54 what years those were. Then, uh, I feel like creatine got supplement of the year
126:56 like creatine got supplement of the year for 2026, unless something else comes
126:59 for 2026, unless something else comes along. So creatine supplement of the
127:01 along. So creatine supplement of the year 2026 even though it's been around
127:04 year 2026 even though it's been around for a long long time. What do you think
127:05 for a long long time. What do you think happened?
127:06 happened? >> Well, so first I want to talk about your
127:08 >> Well, so first I want to talk about your loading phase and I like that was really
127:10 loading phase and I like that was really for the studies that were being done,
127:12 for the studies that were being done, right? Because if you're taking five
127:13 right? Because if you're taking five grams a day of creatine, it takes about
127:15 grams a day of creatine, it takes about three to four weeks for your c for your
127:18 three to four weeks for your c for your muscle creatine stores to become
127:19 muscle creatine stores to become saturated and researchers aren't going
127:22 saturated and researchers aren't going to do a study where they wait that long.
127:23 to do a study where they wait that long. So the loading phase really was just
127:25 So the loading phase really was just >> So that's what inspired it. Yeah, it was
127:27 >> So that's what inspired it. Yeah, it was it's in this isolated bubble of in the
127:30 it's in this isolated bubble of in the experimental protocol, but like in the
127:32 experimental protocol, but like in the real world, you have three weeks or if
127:34 real world, you have three weeks or if you're like an athlete and you hadn't,
127:36 you're like an athlete and you hadn't, you know, taken the creatine, you don't
127:37 you know, taken the creatine, you don't have your creatine stores up and you
127:39 have your creatine stores up and you have to quickly rapidly
127:40 have to quickly rapidly >> Got it. I was just amazed at how quickly
127:42 >> Got it. I was just amazed at how quickly it worked. I I I might be a
127:43 it worked. I I I might be a hyperresponder, but I legitimately put
127:45 hyperresponder, but I legitimately put on I realized some of it was water or
127:47 on I realized some of it was water or most of it was water, but somewhere
127:49 most of it was water, but somewhere between probably 4 and 8 lbs of of water
127:54 between probably 4 and 8 lbs of of water in the muscle mass. I don't want to call
127:56 in the muscle mass. I don't want to call it lean mass because it's, you know,
127:58 it lean mass because it's, you know, it's water in the muscle. Um, but I I
128:02 it's water in the muscle. Um, but I I just was I was like, "Oh my goodness,
128:03 just was I was like, "Oh my goodness, this is crazy, you know, and um and then
128:06 this is crazy, you know, and um and then people thought maybe it was a steroid,
128:07 people thought maybe it was a steroid, it's not a steroid, maybe it's bad for
128:08 it's not a steroid, maybe it's bad for your kidneys." Turns out it's safe for
128:10 your kidneys." Turns out it's safe for your kidneys. And most everyone um
128:12 your kidneys. And most everyone um pretty remarkable molecule.
128:14 pretty remarkable molecule. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously creatine is
128:16 >> Yeah. I mean, obviously creatine is stored as creatine phosphate in our in
128:18 stored as creatine phosphate in our in our cells. We make to some degree
128:21 our cells. We make to some degree between 1 to three grams of creatine a
128:22 between 1 to three grams of creatine a day. Our liver, our brain also makes it.
128:25 day. Our liver, our brain also makes it. It's used to make energy and so your
128:28 It's used to make energy and so your muscles, if you're working out, you're
128:30 muscles, if you're working out, you're really consuming a lot of energy, right?
128:31 really consuming a lot of energy, right? It's very energetically demanding. So
128:34 It's very energetically demanding. So having the creatine stores higher in
128:36 having the creatine stores higher in your muscle is beneficial because one,
128:39 your muscle is beneficial because one, you're going to be able to increase your
128:40 you're going to be able to increase your training volume, right? So it's not like
128:42 training volume, right? So it's not like creatine is anabolic in the sense that
128:44 creatine is anabolic in the sense that protein or amino acids are, right? It's
128:46 protein or amino acids are, right? It's not like directly affecting muscle
128:48 not like directly affecting muscle protein synthesis. It's just helping you
128:51 protein synthesis. It's just helping you train more, getting more reps and you
128:54 train more, getting more reps and you know whatever it is training your
128:56 know whatever it is training your training volume is going up and because
128:57 training volume is going up and because your training volume's going up then
128:59 your training volume's going up then you're obviously putting more stress on
129:01 you're obviously putting more stress on your muscles which is going to lead to
129:03 your muscles which is going to lead to increased muscle protein synthesis and
129:04 increased muscle protein synthesis and you know obviously there's water
129:06 you know obviously there's water probably as well. That said, you know,
129:09 probably as well. That said, you know, you asked me you know what happened. So
129:11 you asked me you know what happened. So I got interested in creatine back in 20
129:15 I got interested in creatine back in 20 when I started basically weight training
129:16 when I started basically weight training and obviously had heard about it
129:18 and obviously had heard about it forever. ever took it. And um as I
129:21 forever. ever took it. And um as I started to get into resistance training,
129:22 started to get into resistance training, I was like, I better start taking this.
129:24 I was like, I better start taking this. This is I'm like in this in this world
129:26 This is I'm like in this in this world now and started doing some research on
129:27 now and started doing some research on taking it. So I was taking the five
129:29 taking it. So I was taking the five grams a day because that's really what
129:31 grams a day because that's really what most of the studies show creatine
129:33 most of the studies show creatine monohydrate. That's the most
129:35 monohydrate. That's the most wellressearched form of creatine. And I
129:37 wellressearched form of creatine. And I was taking five grams a day
129:39 was taking five grams a day >> because I was interested in improving my
129:41 >> because I was interested in improving my my training volume and and getting the
129:43 my training volume and and getting the the benefits of it, right? Um, and then
129:47 the benefits of it, right? Um, and then I had Darren Cando on the podcast. Uh,
129:50 I had Darren Cando on the podcast. Uh, that was in 2024, I think it was. And,
129:54 that was in 2024, I think it was. And, um, once I had started getting into the
129:56 um, once I had started getting into the creatine research, I the brain stuff
129:59 creatine research, I the brain stuff started has been coming out over the
130:01 started has been coming out over the past, you know, few years.
130:03 past, you know, few years. >> And that's for me become very
130:05 >> And that's for me become very interesting. I remember the first time I
130:06 interesting. I remember the first time I heard about it years ago, it was like,
130:07 heard about it years ago, it was like, oh, it's it's helping improve cognitive
130:09 oh, it's it's helping improve cognitive function in older older, you know,
130:11 function in older older, you know, people.
130:11 people. >> Yeah. the phosphor creatine system seems
130:13 >> Yeah. the phosphor creatine system seems to be somewhat um biased towards
130:17 to be somewhat um biased towards fourbrain structures. You know, I mean
130:19 fourbrain structures. You know, I mean obviously it's in lots of brain areas,
130:20 obviously it's in lots of brain areas, but that there might be a heavier
130:22 but that there might be a heavier reliance on it for
130:24 reliance on it for >> brain areas that are associated with
130:25 >> brain areas that are associated with strategic planning and you know, working
130:27 strategic planning and you know, working memory and Yeah. If you if you were to
130:29 memory and Yeah. If you if you were to sort of just map the the the sort of
130:31 sort of just map the the the sort of density of usage of the phosphocreatine
130:33 density of usage of the phosphocreatine system, you'd you'd see a frontal bias
130:35 system, you'd you'd see a frontal bias for sure.
130:36 for sure. >> Okay.
130:36 >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um well anyways that's kind of
130:38 >> Yeah. Um well anyways that's kind of where my interest in in you know kind of
130:42 where my interest in in you know kind of diving deeper. Anything that's helping
130:44 diving deeper. Anything that's helping the brain is interesting to me as I know
130:47 the brain is interesting to me as I know to you as well.
130:48 to you as well. >> And um and so I
130:52 >> And um and so I >> learned a lot from this podcast I did
130:53 >> learned a lot from this podcast I did with Darren Kando. He you know
130:55 with Darren Kando. He you know researches creatine and collaborates
130:56 researches creatine and collaborates with a lot of different researchers that
130:58 with a lot of different researchers that are doing you know research on the brain
131:00 are doing you know research on the brain and muscle and you know lots the bone.
131:02 and muscle and you know lots the bone. Turns out it's beneficial for the bone
131:04 Turns out it's beneficial for the bone as well. But the brain it's interesting.
131:06 as well. But the brain it's interesting. We also make creatine in the brain, but
131:08 We also make creatine in the brain, but um it's not like so it's kind of like
131:10 um it's not like so it's kind of like the muscle, right? You're not just going
131:12 the muscle, right? You're not just going to if you take creatine, you don't work
131:13 to if you take creatine, you don't work out, you're not going to you're not
131:15 out, you're not going to you're not going to get any increase in lean mass,
131:17 going to get any increase in lean mass, right? It's not going to do much of
131:19 right? It's not going to do much of anything because you're not putting in
131:20 anything because you're not putting in the work. I think the same goes with the
131:23 the work. I think the same goes with the brain as well where it's like
131:25 brain as well where it's like researchers started to find out that
131:27 researchers started to find out that well, you can't just take creatine and
131:29 well, you can't just take creatine and it's going to enhance cognitive
131:31 it's going to enhance cognitive function. It's in the background of
131:32 function. It's in the background of stressing the brain, right? you're
131:34 stressing the brain, right? you're stressing your muscles by a workout.
131:35 stressing your muscles by a workout. Same goes for the brain. It's like in
131:37 Same goes for the brain. It's like in these situations of stress, whether
131:39 these situations of stress, whether that's sleep deprivation, whether it's,
131:42 that's sleep deprivation, whether it's, you know, a traumatic brain injury. I
131:45 you know, a traumatic brain injury. I mean, I would argue, you know, there's a
131:47 mean, I would argue, you know, there's a lot of psychological stress, depression,
131:51 lot of psychological stress, depression, constantly using your brain like you and
131:53 constantly using your brain like you and I right now in this conversation. We're
131:55 I right now in this conversation. We're we're learning, we're thinking. I mean,
131:56 we're learning, we're thinking. I mean, it is stressful on the brain, right? So,
131:59 it is stressful on the brain, right? So, I mean, I am obviously speculating here
132:01 I mean, I am obviously speculating here and taking taking and extrapolating,
132:03 and taking taking and extrapolating, right? I'm not saying that there's
132:05 right? I'm not saying that there's studies showing that, but it does seem
132:06 studies showing that, but it does seem as though that that's when creatine
132:09 as though that that's when creatine seems to shine in the brain. And you
132:11 seems to shine in the brain. And you might go, well, your brain makes it, and
132:13 might go, well, your brain makes it, and it's true. Your brain does make, you
132:14 it's true. Your brain does make, you know, again, it's I think between 1 to
132:16 know, again, it's I think between 1 to three grams or something. I'm not
132:17 three grams or something. I'm not exactly sure how much, but it makes its
132:19 exactly sure how much, but it makes its own creatine. And it's kind of resistant
132:21 own creatine. And it's kind of resistant to taking up the creatine that you're
132:22 to taking up the creatine that you're supplementing with. um particularly
132:25 supplementing with. um particularly because for one the muscle is very
132:27 because for one the muscle is very greedy. So when you're getting to that 5
132:30 greedy. So when you're getting to that 5 g range, muscles are really consuming.
132:32 g range, muscles are really consuming. If you're working out in particular,
132:33 If you're working out in particular, right, your muscles are kind of
132:34 right, your muscles are kind of consuming that because that's they're
132:36 consuming that because that's they're very greedy for it, right? Uh and and
132:39 very greedy for it, right? Uh and and there have now been, I think, a handful
132:41 there have now been, I think, a handful of studies showing that when you start
132:42 of studies showing that when you start to get above that, there was a study out
132:44 to get above that, there was a study out of Germany showing this and it's a small
132:45 of Germany showing this and it's a small study. This needs to be replicated like
132:48 study. This needs to be replicated like this is all new, you know, emerging
132:50 this is all new, you know, emerging data. But that study showed that once
132:53 data. But that study showed that once you start to get to, you know, 10 grams,
132:56 you start to get to, you know, 10 grams, then if you look by MRI, you can start
132:58 then if you look by MRI, you can start to see that creatine levels are
133:01 to see that creatine levels are increasing in certain brain regions and
133:02 increasing in certain brain regions and perhaps in the brain regions that you
133:03 perhaps in the brain regions that you were talking about. And they're going
133:05 were talking about. And they're going higher than than what you would get from
133:07 higher than than what you would get from just your brain normally making its own
133:09 just your brain normally making its own creatine. So the 10 grams of creatine a
133:13 creatine. So the 10 grams of creatine a day, which is now what my baseline is,
133:15 day, which is now what my baseline is, is based off of that. But there's
133:16 is based off of that. But there's studies now showing that um if you are
133:19 studies now showing that um if you are in this sort of stressed state, your
133:22 in this sort of stressed state, your brain is stressed like for sleep sleep
133:23 brain is stressed like for sleep sleep deprivation for example, you're sleepd
133:26 deprivation for example, you're sleepd deprived for 21 hours and your brain's
133:28 deprived for 21 hours and your brain's not working very good after not sleeping
133:30 not working very good after not sleeping for 21 hours, right? I mean that's
133:32 for 21 hours, right? I mean that's obviously when I have a when I travel
133:34 obviously when I have a when I travel internationally, I'd never really sleep
133:35 internationally, I'd never really sleep good on a an international flight and so
133:37 good on a an international flight and so I'm like not if you were to come find me
133:39 I'm like not if you were to come find me after that flight, I'd be like not
133:41 after that flight, I'd be like not working very good. Right.
133:43 working very good. Right. >> Cognit you and everybody else,
133:44 >> Cognit you and everybody else, >> right? Yeah. Well, some people can sleep
133:46 >> right? Yeah. Well, some people can sleep great on a plane, but I'm not one of
133:47 great on a plane, but I'm not one of those people. So, um, there have now
133:50 those people. So, um, there have now been at least one study showing that if
133:53 been at least one study showing that if you give someone, it's like something
133:55 you give someone, it's like something like 35 grams per kilogram body weight
133:59 like 35 grams per kilogram body weight of creatine, which comes out to a lot. I
134:01 of creatine, which comes out to a lot. I mean, it's like 20 25. It depends on
134:02 mean, it's like 20 25. It depends on your body weight, right? Like 20 25
134:05 your body weight, right? Like 20 25 grams, perhaps even more. I mean,
134:06 grams, perhaps even more. I mean, >> I mean, I'm 100 kilograms. That's a lot.
134:09 >> I mean, I'm 100 kilograms. That's a lot. So, for me, it's more like 20 25 grams,
134:12 So, for me, it's more like 20 25 grams, right? But if you give individuals that
134:14 right? But if you give individuals that high dose in that you know sleep-d
134:17 high dose in that you know sleep-d deprived state that they're cognitively
134:20 deprived state that they're cognitively not only performing normal but they're
134:23 not only performing normal but they're performing better than their baseline
134:25 performing better than their baseline and that of course generated a lot of
134:27 and that of course generated a lot of interest. There have been studies coming
134:30 interest. There have been studies coming out since then showing that okay if you
134:32 out since then showing that okay if you give older adults with mild cognitive
134:34 give older adults with mild cognitive impairment perhaps mild you know early
134:36 impairment perhaps mild you know early stage Alzheimer's disease again 20 grams
134:38 stage Alzheimer's disease again 20 grams you're giving in the 20 gram range of
134:40 you're giving in the 20 gram range of creatine it's improving their cognitive
134:42 creatine it's improving their cognitive function why is that well creatine is
134:46 function why is that well creatine is important to make energy and when your
134:48 important to make energy and when your brain cells are stressed out right I
134:50 brain cells are stressed out right I mean like energy energetic demand goes
134:52 mean like energy energetic demand goes up and if you have more creatine it's
134:54 up and if you have more creatine it's going to make things easier there's also
134:56 going to make things easier there's also some inflammation that's being generated
134:57 some inflammation that's being generated in that stress state and it seems as
134:59 in that stress state and it seems as though creatine is also having both an
135:00 though creatine is also having both an indirect and direct effect on
135:02 indirect and direct effect on inflammatory processes as well.
135:04 inflammatory processes as well. >> This is all early early data like like
135:09 >> This is all early early data like like more needs to be done but I think
135:12 more needs to be done but I think there's enough safety data out there now
135:13 there's enough safety data out there now where it's like well it's really not
135:16 where it's like well it's really not harmful to take 10 grams a day. I take
135:18 harmful to take 10 grams a day. I take 10 grams a day every day.
135:19 10 grams a day every day. >> You spread it out.
135:20 >> You spread it out. >> I do it in two doses. I mean some people
135:22 >> I do it in two doses. I mean some people are very sensitive to a 10 gram dose
135:24 are very sensitive to a 10 gram dose where they might like get a GI
135:26 where they might like get a GI irritation effect. It can give some
135:28 irritation effect. It can give some people um diarrhea.
135:30 people um diarrhea. >> Diarrhea. Exactly. Yeah. So, the very
135:32 >> Diarrhea. Exactly. Yeah. So, the very scientific way of putting it, but I mean
135:34 scientific way of putting it, but I mean that. So, I I do spread it out and I
135:36 that. So, I I do spread it out and I take it I don't take it at night. I like
135:38 take it I don't take it at night. I like to take mine in the morning
135:40 to take mine in the morning >> and I don't know, Andrew, this might be
135:42 >> and I don't know, Andrew, this might be a placebo. I feel like I'm constantly in
135:44 a placebo. I feel like I'm constantly in a stress. I'm constantly in a my brain
135:46 a stress. I'm constantly in a my brain is under a lot of stress. I'm constantly
135:47 is under a lot of stress. I'm constantly learning. I'm reading papers and like I
135:50 learning. I'm reading papers and like I said, I'm I'm extrapolating here. This
135:51 said, I'm I'm extrapolating here. This isn't sleep deprivation. That's
135:53 isn't sleep deprivation. That's obviously a much more extreme type of
135:55 obviously a much more extreme type of stress. But I have noticed that taking
135:58 stress. But I have noticed that taking my 10 grams, going from 5 to 10 really
136:01 my 10 grams, going from 5 to 10 really does seem to affect my brain functioning
136:05 does seem to affect my brain functioning like later in the day where I seem to
136:06 like later in the day where I seem to keep
136:07 keep >> keep going better where I I'm not
136:09 >> keep going better where I I'm not getting as tired.
136:11 getting as tired. >> And I could be placebo, which is fine.
136:13 >> And I could be placebo, which is fine. Like I said, I am fine with placebo
136:15 Like I said, I am fine with placebo effects as long as what I'm ingesting is
136:16 effects as long as what I'm ingesting is not actually bad for you. Placebo is
136:18 not actually bad for you. Placebo is fine with me.
136:19 fine with me. >> Um, but it is working for me when I
136:21 >> Um, but it is working for me when I travel.
136:22 travel. I do when I'm going to the east coast. I
136:25 I do when I'm going to the east coast. I mean, I'm on the west coast, so when I
136:26 mean, I'm on the west coast, so when I go anywhere and I have to give a talk
136:28 go anywhere and I have to give a talk early in the morning and I never sleep
136:30 early in the morning and I never sleep good in a hotel, I I'm always sleep
136:32 good in a hotel, I I'm always sleep deprived. I mean, I I don't know that a
136:33 deprived. I mean, I I don't know that a time that I haven't been traveling and
136:36 time that I haven't been traveling and I'm going to start traveling with my
136:37 I'm going to start traveling with my pillow like you do cuz that's brilliant
136:39 pillow like you do cuz that's brilliant because that's like one of my that's one
136:40 because that's like one of my that's one of my problems, but there's many
136:41 of my problems, but there's many problems in hotel rooms that lead to me
136:43 problems in hotel rooms that lead to me not sleeping as good, right? So I take
136:46 not sleeping as good, right? So I take 20 sometimes 25 grams of creatine in
136:49 20 sometimes 25 grams of creatine in those situations and there of it's like
136:51 those situations and there of it's like you know it's not all the time
136:53 you know it's not all the time >> but it seems to help me again and like I
136:56 >> but it seems to help me again and like I said I'm okay with placebo which is fine
136:58 said I'm okay with placebo which is fine but we do have some evidence that it
137:00 but we do have some evidence that it might and I think this is kind of where
137:03 might and I think this is kind of where people are already interested in
137:04 people are already interested in creatine and so when you start to go
137:06 creatine and so when you start to go well maybe it's going to be beneficial
137:07 well maybe it's going to be beneficial for the brain if it's going to improve
137:08 for the brain if it's going to improve cognitive function that's really
137:10 cognitive function that's really something that people are interested in
137:11 something that people are interested in now again I don't know that it's like if
137:13 now again I don't know that it's like if you're just some young healthy person
137:15 you're just some young healthy person that gets all their you're getting
137:16 that gets all their you're getting you're sleeping well, you're exercising,
137:18 you're sleeping well, you're exercising, everything's great, you know, and I'm
137:19 everything's great, you know, and I'm mostly sleep well and exercise great.
137:22 mostly sleep well and exercise great. I'm extrapolating here, but like you
137:24 I'm extrapolating here, but like you know Alzheimer's disease on the extreme
137:25 know Alzheimer's disease on the extreme end, TBI also on the extreme end. That's
137:27 end, TBI also on the extreme end. That's real-time aging, right? And there's some
137:29 real-time aging, right? And there's some evidence that may be helpful for that as
137:30 evidence that may be helpful for that as well. There's been some studies with
137:31 well. There's been some studies with children looking at creatine
137:33 children looking at creatine supplementation after um a TBI and it
137:36 supplementation after um a TBI and it seems to help with their their recovery.
137:38 seems to help with their their recovery. Um, I am probably experiencing brain
137:41 Um, I am probably experiencing brain aging. So, I'm just kind of
137:43 aging. So, I'm just kind of >> I'm going to interrupt there. I don't
137:45 >> I'm going to interrupt there. I don't think so. I'm not trying to just be
137:46 think so. I'm not trying to just be complimentary. You know, I paid close
137:49 complimentary. You know, I paid close attention to the data and it seems like
137:51 attention to the data and it seems like in certain fields like math and physics,
137:53 in certain fields like math and physics, uh, people tend to, uh, peak with their
137:56 uh, people tend to, uh, peak with their contributions early. There's a reason
137:58 contributions early. There's a reason why the Fields Medal is only given to
138:00 why the Fields Medal is only given to people, you know, like I think it's 40
138:01 people, you know, like I think it's 40 or younger. My dad's a physicist, so he
138:03 or younger. My dad's a physicist, so he can, uh, check me on this one. But
138:06 can, uh, check me on this one. But biologists, at least the ones I know
138:07 biologists, at least the ones I know that took good care of themselves,
138:09 that took good care of themselves, they're known to make great discoveries,
138:11 they're known to make great discoveries, be cognitively sharp, intellectually
138:13 be cognitively sharp, intellectually strong, well into their 70s and 80s. I
138:16 strong, well into their 70s and 80s. I mean, Torren Weasel, who the
138:17 mean, Torren Weasel, who the co-receipient of the Nobel Prize for
138:18 co-receipient of the Nobel Prize for brain plasticity and vision, he's still
138:20 brain plasticity and vision, he's still alive and he he was I think he still
138:22 alive and he he was I think he still runs. He's in his late 90s and he paints
138:25 runs. He's in his late 90s and he paints and he's and he's sharp. So, I just I I
138:27 and he's and he's sharp. So, I just I I I made a point to only interrupt here.
138:30 I made a point to only interrupt here. People can check the the data on the
138:31 People can check the the data on the previous portions of the podcast, but
138:33 previous portions of the podcast, but and just say I actually think that
138:35 and just say I actually think that cognitively
138:37 cognitively I'm using biologists as an example. It's
138:39 I'm using biologists as an example. It's possible in
138:42 possible in aspects of life where you're where
138:44 aspects of life where you're where you're building a base of data to pull
138:46 you're building a base of data to pull from, which is what biology really is.
138:48 from, which is what biology really is. It's just an example here, that to get
138:50 It's just an example here, that to get cognitively stronger and stronger with
138:52 cognitively stronger and stronger with age,
138:52 age, >> right?
138:52 >> right? >> I there's a theory, but I see you as
138:54 >> I there's a theory, but I see you as that. And I'm again, I'm not just saying
138:56 that. And I'm again, I'm not just saying it to be complimentary, although it is a
138:58 it to be complimentary, although it is a compliment. I it seems like you're
138:59 compliment. I it seems like you're you're picking up steam. You're thinking
139:02 you're picking up steam. You're thinking about things. You're not forgetting
139:03 about things. You're not forgetting things from way back when. You're
139:05 things from way back when. You're building on the the concepts and
139:06 building on the the concepts and knowledge from way back when. So I I
139:08 knowledge from way back when. So I I find it reassuring that you um
139:10 find it reassuring that you um biologists in particular seem to have
139:12 biologists in particular seem to have this, you know, up into the right
139:14 this, you know, up into the right trajectory for cognition.
139:15 trajectory for cognition. >> It's interesting. My my late mentor um
139:17 >> It's interesting. My my late mentor um Dr. Bruce Ames was every bit of that. I
139:20 Dr. Bruce Ames was every bit of that. I mean, you know, he passed away a little
139:21 mean, you know, he passed away a little over a year ago when he's 96, but you
139:24 over a year ago when he's 96, but you know, some of his most he claims some of
139:26 know, some of his most he claims some of his best work was done, you know, in his
139:28 his best work was done, you know, in his late 80s, right? You know,
139:29 late 80s, right? You know, >> you don't see that in math or physics.
139:31 >> you don't see that in math or physics. >> Yeah. So, it's interesting and and you
139:33 >> Yeah. So, it's interesting and and you know, I don't know exactly the
139:34 know, I don't know exactly the difference. I mean, I don't know how
139:36 difference. I mean, I don't know how much
139:37 much >> learning goes into math and physic
139:39 >> learning goes into math and physic physics as you're as you're like I I I
139:41 physics as you're as you're like I I I just don't know. But like with biology
139:43 just don't know. But like with biology and I mean we're constantly learning new
139:46 and I mean we're constantly learning new things and and reading new papers and I
139:49 things and and reading new papers and I think even just the novelty of learning
139:50 think even just the novelty of learning new things. I mean that's brain derived
139:52 new things. I mean that's brain derived neurotrophic factor, right? Like that's
139:54 neurotrophic factor, right? Like that's >> like you're you're you're increasing
139:56 >> like you're you're you're increasing synaptic connections and neuroplasticity
139:59 synaptic connections and neuroplasticity and you're keeping your brain younger in
140:00 and you're keeping your brain younger in that way too, right? So
140:02 that way too, right? So >> uh I I think the learning process is is
140:05 >> uh I I think the learning process is is super important whether it's biology or
140:06 super important whether it's biology or whatever you're passionate about, right?
140:08 whatever you're passionate about, right? like you learn new languages what like
140:10 like you learn new languages what like the learning process itself is something
140:12 the learning process itself is something that is so important for for brain aging
140:15 that is so important for for brain aging as well um and yeah so I I I would agree
140:19 as well um and yeah so I I I would agree with you that but brain aging in general
140:21 with you that but brain aging in general yeah I'm obviously chronologically aging
140:22 yeah I'm obviously chronologically aging and there is some degree of aging going
140:24 and there is some degree of aging going on in my brain but you know so that's
140:26 on in my brain but you know so that's that's I think where the creatine crazes
140:29 that's I think where the creatine crazes come from is the interest in and I and
140:31 come from is the interest in and I and I've definitely played a role in some of
140:32 I've definitely played a role in some of this you know by
140:34 this you know by >> by you know talking talking about my
140:37 >> by you know talking talking about my experience and and and being super
140:39 experience and and and being super interested in it because it's like it's
140:41 interested in it because it's like it's felt good for me and I've noticed this
140:43 felt good for me and I've noticed this experience and this is completely
140:44 experience and this is completely anecdata again but in addition with the
140:47 anecdata again but in addition with the small studies and they are small and
140:49 small studies and they are small and like I don't know if you've looked at
140:51 like I don't know if you've looked at them but they're they're
140:52 them but they're they're >> you can subject numbers
140:54 >> you can subject numbers >> yeah they're small and you can poke
140:56 >> yeah they're small and you can poke holes in them and you would be
140:58 holes in them and you would be completely you know okay poking holes
141:00 completely you know okay poking holes because it's they're small you know
141:02 because it's they're small you know sample sizes but it is kind of a
141:04 sample sizes but it is kind of a consistent trend line where we're seeing
141:05 consistent trend line where we're seeing more studies come out and show the same
141:07 more studies come out and show the same same thing. And it's like, okay, you
141:09 same thing. And it's like, okay, you know, to a certain point, um, maybe
141:11 know, to a certain point, um, maybe there's something here. I think that
141:12 there's something here. I think that more research is going to come out on it
141:15 more research is going to come out on it >> and I feel great doing it. So, I mean,
141:18 >> and I feel great doing it. So, I mean, and even to the point where if I don't
141:20 and even to the point where if I don't have my 10 grams and it's only five,
141:23 have my 10 grams and it's only five, like I'll notice.
141:24 like I'll notice. >> Oh, yeah.
141:24 >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. But again, it could be that,
141:26 >> Yeah. But again, it could be that, >> you know, placebo noibo thing where who
141:29 >> you know, placebo noibo thing where who knows? Who knows? But, you know, let's
141:31 knows? Who knows? But, you know, let's just say it is real. You know, for me, I
141:34 just say it is real. You know, for me, I gotta have I gotta have my my 10 grams
141:35 gotta have I gotta have my my 10 grams of creatine for my brain. Um, you know,
141:38 of creatine for my brain. Um, you know, who knows? I may in five years be like,
141:40 who knows? I may in five years be like, I was wrong. We'll see new data come
141:41 I was wrong. We'll see new data come out. But I don't think so. I think I
141:43 out. But I don't think so. I think I think we're going to have I think this
141:45 think we're going to have I think this is like the next a lot of people doing
141:47 is like the next a lot of people doing creatine research. It's it's the new
141:49 creatine research. It's it's the new thing. They're really because there's
141:50 thing. They're really because there's been a lot of work on exercise
141:52 been a lot of work on exercise physiology and you know,
141:54 physiology and you know, >> the safety data are there. So, it's not
141:55 >> the safety data are there. So, it's not like they have to get a lot of, you
141:57 like they have to get a lot of, you know, human subject there. The safety
141:59 know, human subject there. The safety data is I mean it's the most wellstied
142:01 data is I mean it's the most wellstied you know one of the most wellstudied
142:03 you know one of the most wellstudied supplements out there like you said you
142:05 supplements out there like you said you were taking it
142:06 were taking it >> when you were 18 and it was studied back
142:08 >> when you were 18 and it was studied back then. Yeah. And it's just been studied
142:09 then. Yeah. And it's just been studied the you know for all the years that
142:11 the you know for all the years that you've been taking it. So I mean if it
142:13 you've been taking it. So I mean if it was unsafe like we really would know.
142:16 was unsafe like we really would know. And again I don't want to get into all
142:17 And again I don't want to get into all the data on the safety but I think that
142:20 the data on the safety but I think that it's pretty pretty solid that it's now
142:22 it's pretty pretty solid that it's now of course like if you're going to go
142:24 of course like if you're going to go like mainline 50 grams a day. I mean I
142:26 like mainline 50 grams a day. I mean I don't know that's a little much on the
142:27 don't know that's a little much on the internet. There's always Yeah, there's
142:29 internet. There's always Yeah, there's always people dry, what do they dry
142:30 always people dry, what do they dry scoop? I mean, people have died dry
142:32 scoop? I mean, people have died dry scooping energy drinks. I mean, there's
142:33 scooping energy drinks. I mean, there's always a [ __ ] or two out there that are
142:36 always a [ __ ] or two out there that are going to take things to the extreme and
142:38 going to take things to the extreme and harm themselves doing something that no
142:40 harm themselves doing something that no one else is dumb enough to do. But I
142:42 one else is dumb enough to do. But I think we look at the center of mass for
142:45 think we look at the center of mass for things. You know, as we're talking about
142:47 things. You know, as we're talking about creatine, I want to talk about some
142:48 creatine, I want to talk about some other uh supplements. Um but it occurs
142:51 other uh supplements. Um but it occurs to me that
142:54 to me that if there's some data ideally from animal
142:58 if there's some data ideally from animal studies and humans and something is
143:02 studies and humans and something is safe. I think the question nowadays
143:04 safe. I think the question nowadays because of how broadly health and
143:06 because of how broadly health and supplement and other kinds of
143:07 supplement and other kinds of information goes in the world. I think
143:10 information goes in the world. I think the question that everyone should ask
143:11 the question that everyone should ask themselves is okay do I want to be in
143:14 themselves is okay do I want to be in the experimental or the control group?
143:17 the experimental or the control group? >> That's how I think about it. So like if
143:18 >> That's how I think about it. So like if if there's a study about creatine um or
143:20 if there's a study about creatine um or or some new molecule I'm going to ask
143:22 or some new molecule I'm going to ask you about magnesium in a moment right um
143:24 you about magnesium in a moment right um I look at the safety margins on
143:26 I look at the safety margins on magnesium okay that I'm comfortable with
143:29 magnesium okay that I'm comfortable with those safety margins so that should
143:31 those safety margins so that should always be question number one and then
143:32 always be question number one and then it's do I want to be in the experimental
143:34 it's do I want to be in the experimental or the control group and I think that
143:36 or the control group and I think that these days people are who are against
143:39 these days people are who are against supplements or against something they'll
143:40 supplements or against something they'll say well the effect isn't nearly as big
143:42 say well the effect isn't nearly as big as you get from exercise totally
143:45 as you get from exercise totally absolutely but that's not really what
143:46 absolutely but that's not really what we're talking about people love this in
143:48 we're talking about people love this in the cannabis and alcohol thing whenever
143:50 the cannabis and alcohol thing whenever I make a point about alcohol or cannabis
143:52 I make a point about alcohol or cannabis they'll say well alcohol is worse like
143:54 they'll say well alcohol is worse like yeah I like and you know I mean these
143:57 yeah I like and you know I mean these are two separate entities so I think
143:59 are two separate entities so I think that people should just ask themselves
144:01 that people should just ask themselves are you comfortable with the mar safety
144:02 are you comfortable with the mar safety margins and do you want to be in the
144:04 margins and do you want to be in the experimental or the control group and
144:06 experimental or the control group and then of course there's the do can I
144:07 then of course there's the do can I afford to be in the experimental group
144:09 afford to be in the experimental group if I do something
144:10 if I do something >> but that those are really the only
144:12 >> but that those are really the only questions there's no one's saying that
144:14 questions there's no one's saying that that creatine's better than anything
144:15 that creatine's better than anything else or worse than anything else, right?
144:18 else or worse than anything else, right? >> But somehow the messaging gets all
144:20 >> But somehow the messaging gets all messed up and then all these news
144:22 messed up and then all these news articles get generated about what
144:24 articles get generated about what creatine is and it isn't. And I find it
144:27 creatine is and it isn't. And I find it like um
144:30 like um kind of frustrating because that's the
144:32 kind of frustrating because that's the the issue is not whether or not creatine
144:34 the issue is not whether or not creatine is better than exercise and good sleep.
144:37 is better than exercise and good sleep. Question is do you want to be in the
144:38 Question is do you want to be in the experimental or the control group and
144:40 experimental or the control group and can you afford to be in the experimental
144:42 can you afford to be in the experimental group,
144:42 group, >> right? I I like that. I like that
144:44 >> right? I I like that. I like that framework especially if it's like well
144:45 framework especially if it's like well we know it's safe. Okay. So, I can
144:48 we know it's safe. Okay. So, I can potentially be in the experimental group
144:49 potentially be in the experimental group because that's question number one. You
144:50 because that's question number one. You have to have that answer first, right?
144:52 have to have that answer first, right? >> At least in my book.
144:54 >> At least in my book. >> But yeah, I mean
144:56 >> But yeah, I mean >> there's flaws with all sorts of studies
144:58 >> there's flaws with all sorts of studies and creatine studies included, right?
145:00 and creatine studies included, right? And people make all sorts of claims
145:01 And people make all sorts of claims about it and you know, you got to tone
145:04 about it and you know, you got to tone it down a little bit. I mean, it's not
145:05 it down a little bit. I mean, it's not like
145:06 like >> like the best performance enhancer ever,
145:08 >> like the best performance enhancer ever, >> right?
145:09 >> right? >> But it it seems pretty pretty good at
145:11 >> But it it seems pretty pretty good at you know, improving exercise volume
145:13 you know, improving exercise volume recovery as well. I mean, that's like
145:14 recovery as well. I mean, that's like also something that's been shown. and
145:16 also something that's been shown. and then helping with the stressed out
145:17 then helping with the stressed out brain.
145:17 brain. >> On the basis of our last conversation
145:19 >> On the basis of our last conversation some years ago on this podcast, I um
145:22 some years ago on this podcast, I um started taking Lovaza, which is a as you
145:26 started taking Lovaza, which is a as you know, a prescription omega-3, so very
145:28 know, a prescription omega-3, so very high concentration omega-3 cuz I was
145:30 high concentration omega-3 cuz I was getting it from, you know, standard
145:32 getting it from, you know, standard sources. And I thought, well, I'm
145:34 sources. And I thought, well, I'm hitting 50 and, you know, up my omega-3
145:36 hitting 50 and, you know, up my omega-3 and I want clean omega-3. I don't I
145:38 and I want clean omega-3. I don't I don't want it contaminated with mercury
145:40 don't want it contaminated with mercury and other things. So, I'll take um
145:43 and other things. So, I'll take um omega-3s in the form of Lavaza. It's
145:45 omega-3s in the form of Lavaza. It's available generic form now, so it's
145:48 available generic form now, so it's pretty inexpensive. And I have to say my
145:50 pretty inexpensive. And I have to say my my blood profiles were pretty good, but
145:52 my blood profiles were pretty good, but they improved pretty dramatically when I
145:54 they improved pretty dramatically when I started taking Lavaza. So, I'm grateful
145:55 started taking Lavaza. So, I'm grateful to you for encouraging the omega-3 uh
146:00 to you for encouraging the omega-3 uh you know, take the omega-3 path.
146:02 you know, take the omega-3 path. >> Have you ever had an omega-3 index test
146:03 >> Have you ever had an omega-3 index test done?
146:04 done? >> No.
146:04 >> No. >> To measure the
146:05 >> To measure the >> Oh. Oh. Well, if it's on the function
146:06 >> Oh. Oh. Well, if it's on the function test and then it would be then it's in
146:09 test and then it would be then it's in normal range. I know it wasn't flagged,
146:11 normal range. I know it wasn't flagged, but I don't recall what the what the
146:12 but I don't recall what the what the level was.
146:13 level was. >> Yeah. You want to be in the high index,
146:15 >> Yeah. You want to be in the high index, not the low. Right. Well, obviously if
146:16 not the low. Right. Well, obviously if you're taking it, you're not going to be
146:17 you're taking it, you're not going to be in the low.
146:18 in the low. >> Yeah.
146:18 >> Yeah. >> Usually, it's around two grams a day to
146:20 >> Usually, it's around two grams a day to get you from low to high.
146:22 get you from low to high. >> And I I do think that's one of the low
146:24 >> And I I do think that's one of the low hanging fruits in terms of like
146:25 hanging fruits in terms of like something powerful and having an
146:27 something powerful and having an outsized effect on your health
146:28 outsized effect on your health >> that people can do that's not that much
146:30 >> that people can do that's not that much effort. It's not like exercise and
146:32 effort. It's not like exercise and exercise effort and
146:34 exercise effort and >> or eating salmon. I don't like fish.
146:36 >> or eating salmon. I don't like fish. >> No. Yeah. And and you know, a lot of
146:37 >> No. Yeah. And and you know, a lot of people don't like fish. And also there's
146:39 people don't like fish. And also there's now microplastic contamination in in our
146:42 now microplastic contamination in in our in our you know seafood sources. There's
146:44 in our you know seafood sources. There's the heavy metals, PCBs contaminants. I
146:47 the heavy metals, PCBs contaminants. I mean I still eat salmon but like you
146:50 mean I still eat salmon but like you know it's it's not like it used to be.
146:53 know it's it's not like it used to be. So there there are other there are other
146:55 So there there are other there are other cleaner ways to get your omega-3 levels
146:57 cleaner ways to get your omega-3 levels higher and omega-3 is very important for
146:59 higher and omega-3 is very important for cardiovasc
147:02 cardiovasc I would say the most powerful
147:06 I would say the most powerful naturally occurring dietary compounds
147:08 naturally occurring dietary compounds for suppressing inflammation and
147:09 for suppressing inflammation and resolving inflammation would be better
147:11 resolving inflammation would be better way of putting it right I mean and
147:12 way of putting it right I mean and that's again at the core of aging and if
147:15 that's again at the core of aging and if you look at any sort of measure of aging
147:18 you look at any sort of measure of aging whether it's even these epigenetic aging
147:19 whether it's even these epigenetic aging clocks they're very sensitive to
147:21 clocks they're very sensitive to inflammation and that's why there's So
147:23 inflammation and that's why there's So many studies coming out now showing
147:24 many studies coming out now showing omega-3 can slow this you know
147:27 omega-3 can slow this you know biological aging as measured by these
147:29 biological aging as measured by these epigenetic agent clocks and that's and
147:32 epigenetic agent clocks and that's and even in randomized control trials
147:33 even in randomized control trials showing this that it's it's doing that
147:35 showing this that it's it's doing that and that leads to functional outcomes as
147:37 and that leads to functional outcomes as well. So like even if you're only
147:40 well. So like even if you're only slowing the clock let's say by 3 months
147:43 slowing the clock let's say by 3 months um you're still having outcomes like
147:46 um you're still having outcomes like we're for example three 3 months slowing
147:49 we're for example three 3 months slowing the epigenetic agent clock by omega-3
147:51 the epigenetic agent clock by omega-3 only is going to get you like you know
147:53 only is going to get you like you know 16% lower prefrailty or if you add in
147:56 16% lower prefrailty or if you add in vitamin D and resistance training
147:58 vitamin D and resistance training because the study showed a synergy
147:59 because the study showed a synergy between the three then you're talking
148:01 between the three then you're talking about like lowering the chance of
148:02 about like lowering the chance of invasive cancer by 66% even though
148:05 invasive cancer by 66% even though you're only getting
148:05 you're only getting >> 66
148:06 >> 66 >> Yeah. Even though you're only
148:07 >> Yeah. Even though you're only >> vitamin D resistance training and omega3
148:10 >> vitamin D resistance training and omega3 and omega3. Yeah. And this was this was
148:12 and omega3. Yeah. And this was this was um the the the trial was actually out of
148:15 um the the the trial was actually out of Switzerland I believed and it looked at
148:17 Switzerland I believed and it looked at omega-3 vitamin D alone or resistance
148:20 omega-3 vitamin D alone or resistance training alone. And the only thing that
148:22 training alone. And the only thing that actually slowed the v the uh aging of
148:25 actually slowed the v the uh aging of the clocks was omega-3. Now I'll say
148:29 the clocks was omega-3. Now I'll say that with a caveat. Okay, the baseline
148:31 that with a caveat. Okay, the baseline exercise in this Switzerland group, 88%
148:35 exercise in this Switzerland group, 88% of these people were physically active,
148:36 of these people were physically active, like doing exercise. So adding, you
148:39 like doing exercise. So adding, you know, 30 minutes three times a a week of
148:41 know, 30 minutes three times a a week of resistance training on top of that
148:42 resistance training on top of that didn't slow the clock more. And I
148:44 didn't slow the clock more. And I wouldn't expect it to, to be honest,
148:46 wouldn't expect it to, to be honest, when you're already physically active
148:47 when you're already physically active and that's your baseline. Um, clearly
148:49 and that's your baseline. Um, clearly they weren't eating enough omega-3
148:51 they weren't eating enough omega-3 because that did slow the epigenetic
148:53 because that did slow the epigenetic agent clock. Other studies have shown if
148:55 agent clock. Other studies have shown if you're vitamin D deficient, severely
148:56 you're vitamin D deficient, severely vitamin D deficient, like
148:58 vitamin D deficient, like African-Americans, for example, who are
149:00 African-Americans, for example, who are obese or overweight, if they add in
149:03 obese or overweight, if they add in vitamin D and supplement with 4,000 IUs
149:05 vitamin D and supplement with 4,000 IUs a day for six um 6 weeks, they can
149:08 a day for six um 6 weeks, they can actually slow their ep reverse their
149:10 actually slow their ep reverse their epigenetic aging as well. So, I think it
149:12 epigenetic aging as well. So, I think it again, it's all like where you're
149:13 again, it's all like where you're starting from. But the point is that the
149:15 starting from. But the point is that the omega-3 alone did slow the aging of
149:18 omega-3 alone did slow the aging of these clocks. Um, and you add in the
149:20 these clocks. Um, and you add in the resistance training and vitamin D, those
149:22 resistance training and vitamin D, those alone didn't do it. But when you add it
149:23 alone didn't do it. But when you add it with the omega-3, there was synergy. So
149:25 with the omega-3, there was synergy. So it kept going down. And when the three
149:28 it kept going down. And when the three combined, it slowed the epigenetic aging
149:30 combined, it slowed the epigenetic aging by like 3.8 months. But that translated
149:33 by like 3.8 months. But that translated to like 66% um less likely to get
149:36 to like 66% um less likely to get invasive cancer. Um and then the
149:39 invasive cancer. Um and then the prefrailty was the omega-3 alone. And
149:41 prefrailty was the omega-3 alone. And there was another marker, I can't
149:42 there was another marker, I can't remember. I covered this in a newsletter
149:43 remember. I covered this in a newsletter a while back, but like you know this,
149:45 a while back, but like you know this, and this is like this isn't the first
149:46 and this is like this isn't the first study to show this with omega-3. Um
149:49 study to show this with omega-3. Um omega-3s are really I I'm went on this
149:52 omega-3s are really I I'm went on this tangent. I'm sorry, Andrew. You got me
149:53 tangent. I'm sorry, Andrew. You got me on one of my favorite topics.
149:55 on one of my favorite topics. >> I mean, I'm excited because I take LVZA,
149:57 >> I mean, I'm excited because I take LVZA, I take vitamin D,
149:58 I take vitamin D, >> uh, D3. I take a lot. I take 5 to 8,000
150:02 >> uh, D3. I take a lot. I take 5 to 8,000 IUs per day and I get sunlight. People
150:04 IUs per day and I get sunlight. People actually ask me, this is just a quick
150:05 actually ask me, this is just a quick window into the messaging around
150:08 window into the messaging around sunlight. Some people will say, "If I
150:09 sunlight. Some people will say, "If I take vitamin D, do I still need
150:11 take vitamin D, do I still need sunlight?"
150:12 sunlight?" >> And, you know, a big part of my
150:13 >> And, you know, a big part of my messaging is trying to tell people
150:14 messaging is trying to tell people sunlight does a bunch of other things,
150:16 sunlight does a bunch of other things, but I take vitamin D at that level. I
150:18 but I take vitamin D at that level. I take the lavaza and of course I have
150:20 take the lavaza and of course I have resistance train and the lvaza move and
150:22 resistance train and the lvaza move and actually increasing the vitamin D was on
150:24 actually increasing the vitamin D was on the basis of yes blood work but also our
150:26 the basis of yes blood work but also our prior conversation I feel much better.
150:29 prior conversation I feel much better. Yeah,
150:29 Yeah, >> much better.
150:30 >> much better. >> I take about 5,000 IUs a day as well.
150:32 >> I take about 5,000 IUs a day as well. And I do get good sunlight. And I knew I
150:34 And I do get good sunlight. And I knew I agree with you. Sunlight's important for
150:35 agree with you. Sunlight's important for sunlight's not and vitamin D production
150:37 sunlight's not and vitamin D production is not the only thing that sunlight is
150:38 is not the only thing that sunlight is doing. Obviously, you've talked in
150:41 doing. Obviously, you've talked in great, you know, depth about that.
150:43 great, you know, depth about that. >> I'm going to go into the grave. I
150:44 >> I'm going to go into the grave. I actually want a little window over my
150:46 actually want a little window over my grave. It'll be a little more so I can
150:47 grave. It'll be a little more so I can get morning sunlight. I'm just kidding,
150:48 get morning sunlight. I'm just kidding, folks. When I'm in the ground, I'm in
150:50 folks. When I'm in the ground, I'm in the ground. Um, no, I think the omega-3
150:52 the ground. Um, no, I think the omega-3 literature uh has been greatly assisted
150:55 literature uh has been greatly assisted by your messaging around it because it
150:58 by your messaging around it because it got pretty confusing out there for a
151:00 got pretty confusing out there for a while. There was the the usual push back
151:02 while. There was the the usual push back that comes after supplement of the year
151:03 that comes after supplement of the year is released.
151:04 is released. >> It's a joke, folks. Is the oh no, it's
151:07 >> It's a joke, folks. Is the oh no, it's actually bad for us. You know, there's
151:08 actually bad for us. You know, there's always a few of those and then
151:10 always a few of those and then >> we eventually arrive at sanity again and
151:12 >> we eventually arrive at sanity again and you go, no, the bulk of studies point in
151:14 you go, no, the bulk of studies point in the direction of this being healthy.
151:16 the direction of this being healthy. randomized control trial showing it
151:17 randomized control trial showing it improves cardiovascular health, lowers
151:19 improves cardiovascular health, lowers the incidence of, you know,
151:20 the incidence of, you know, cardiovascular events including heart
151:21 cardiovascular events including heart attacks and strokes, right? These are
151:23 attacks and strokes, right? These are the gold standard. We've got the
151:24 the gold standard. We've got the observational data. We have now looking
151:27 observational data. We have now looking at the molecular events. We look, you
151:28 at the molecular events. We look, you know, epigenetic aging. We know that
151:30 know, epigenetic aging. We know that it's really good at resolving
151:32 it's really good at resolving inflammation because you want your
151:34 inflammation because you want your immune system to be active, but you
151:35 immune system to be active, but you don't want it to be overactive. You want
151:37 don't want it to be overactive. You want it to be active and then turn off,
151:39 it to be active and then turn off, right? And so the omega-3 fatty acids
151:41 right? And so the omega-3 fatty acids like DHA and EPA which are in Lvesa or
151:44 like DHA and EPA which are in Lvesa or Levaza are what the metab they're when
151:46 Levaza are what the metab they're when they're metabolized they're forming
151:47 they're metabolized they're forming these molecules resolins protectins
151:50 these molecules resolins protectins these things are resolving inflammation
151:52 these things are resolving inflammation and so I think that um it's just it's
151:55 and so I think that um it's just it's one of the easiest ways that you can you
151:57 one of the easiest ways that you can you can increase your anti-inflammatory
152:00 can increase your anti-inflammatory response and exercise obviously being
152:01 response and exercise obviously being another very powerful one but the
152:03 another very powerful one but the omega-3s it's always easier to take a
152:05 omega-3s it's always easier to take a supplement and so like I have my parents
152:07 supplement and so like I have my parents taking it you know anyone that I care
152:08 taking it you know anyone that I care about it's you know, easy, easy, done.
152:11 about it's you know, easy, easy, done. You know, take your two grams a day. I
152:13 You know, take your two grams a day. I say two grams a day because, you know,
152:14 say two grams a day because, you know, Lvesa is prescribed at four grams a day,
152:17 Lvesa is prescribed at four grams a day, you know, so two grams is pretty on the
152:18 you know, so two grams is pretty on the conservative side. And that's really
152:19 conservative side. And that's really what's been shown by um Dr. Bill Harris
152:22 what's been shown by um Dr. Bill Harris and some of his colleagues that can
152:24 and some of his colleagues that can basically you can take someone from a
152:25 basically you can take someone from a low omega-3 index of 4% up to a high
152:28 low omega-3 index of 4% up to a high omega-3 index of 8% by supplementing
152:31 omega-3 index of 8% by supplementing with about 2 grams a day. So, um, and by
152:34 with about 2 grams a day. So, um, and by the way, there's all sorts of data on
152:37 the way, there's all sorts of data on that front with the omega-3 index, and I
152:39 that front with the omega-3 index, and I think we talked about this last last
152:40 think we talked about this last last time, but, you know, fiveyear increased
152:41 time, but, you know, fiveyear increased life expectancy if you're on the high
152:43 life expectancy if you're on the high end. Um, you're talking about 90%
152:46 end. Um, you're talking about 90% reduction in sudden cardiac death,
152:48 reduction in sudden cardiac death, >> brain weight in children if pregnant
152:50 >> brain weight in children if pregnant women are taking. Yeah.
152:51 women are taking. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's important throughout
152:52 >> Yeah. I mean, it's important throughout the lifespan. It's, you know, from in
152:54 the lifespan. It's, you know, from in uterero development throughout childhood
152:56 uterero development throughout childhood all the way through adult life and into
152:57 all the way through adult life and into old age. You know, these omega-3 fatty
152:59 old age. You know, these omega-3 fatty acids are
153:01 acids are I'm talking about the resolving of
153:03 I'm talking about the resolving of inflammation, but they're also very
153:05 inflammation, but they're also very important for they are incorporated into
153:08 important for they are incorporated into our cell membranes, DHA, and to some
153:10 our cell membranes, DHA, and to some degree EPA. And that has a very
153:12 degree EPA. And that has a very important role in the fluidity of our
153:13 important role in the fluidity of our our cell membranes. And this is
153:15 our cell membranes. And this is important for if you think about our
153:16 important for if you think about our endothelial cells lining our our
153:18 endothelial cells lining our our vascular system, our arteries, you want
153:21 vascular system, our arteries, you want them to be fluid and more flexible,
153:23 them to be fluid and more flexible, right? That's very important for being
153:25 right? That's very important for being able to respond to a stressful
153:27 able to respond to a stressful situation. In fact, the stiffening of
153:28 situation. In fact, the stiffening of our heart with age, you know, the the
153:30 our heart with age, you know, the the the collagen that surrounds our
153:32 the collagen that surrounds our paricardium that's surrounding our
153:33 paricardium that's surrounding our heart, our paricardium cardium and our
153:35 heart, our paricardium cardium and our myioardium, like that's that's increases
153:38 myioardium, like that's that's increases the risk of a heart attack, you know, a
153:39 the risk of a heart attack, you know, a cardiovascular event. Um, you want your
153:41 cardiovascular event. Um, you want your cells to be more flexible. So, that's
153:44 cells to be more flexible. So, that's what, you know, these omega-3s are also
153:46 what, you know, these omega-3s are also doing and that's why they're also really
153:47 doing and that's why they're also really important for cardiovascular health in
153:50 important for cardiovascular health in addition and in the brain as I mean
153:51 addition and in the brain as I mean these all of our transporters, all of
153:53 these all of our transporters, all of our our receptors, right? They're
153:54 our our receptors, right? They're embedded in the cell membrane and the
153:56 embedded in the cell membrane and the the fluidity of that membrane is
153:58 the fluidity of that membrane is important for the structure and function
153:59 important for the structure and function of these things. And that's why omega-3
154:01 of these things. And that's why omega-3 affects dopamine, serotonin, right? It's
154:03 affects dopamine, serotonin, right? It's why it's affecting you. It's not the
154:05 why it's affecting you. It's not the only reason. Inflammation is also, but
154:07 only reason. Inflammation is also, but part of the reason is is is because it's
154:10 part of the reason is is is because it's it's changing the way our cell is like,
154:12 it's changing the way our cell is like, you know, structurally composed. And if
154:16 you know, structurally composed. And if you think about trans fats, like that's
154:18 you think about trans fats, like that's they do the opposite, right? They
154:20 they do the opposite, right? They stiffen the cell membranes and that's
154:21 stiffen the cell membranes and that's why it's like the worst thing you could
154:22 why it's like the worst thing you could do for your card, one of the bad worst
154:24 do for your card, one of the bad worst things you could do for your
154:25 things you could do for your cardiovascular health is eat a bunch of
154:26 cardiovascular health is eat a bunch of trans fats. Smoking is another one.
154:28 trans fats. Smoking is another one. Smoking is terrible for your
154:29 Smoking is terrible for your cardiovascular health.
154:30 cardiovascular health. >> Do people still eat trans fats?
154:32 >> Do people still eat trans fats? >> No.
154:33 >> No. >> I feel like trans fats got executed in
154:36 >> I feel like trans fats got executed in when when was it that trans fats got
154:37 when when was it that trans fats got executed?
154:38 executed? >> All became I think it was 2018. I mean
154:41 >> All became I think it was 2018. I mean some when they're all like
154:42 some when they're all like >> Yeah. They were sentenced to death.
154:43 >> Yeah. They were sentenced to death. Yeah. No, it's the the point is that we
154:46 Yeah. No, it's the the point is that we all know trans fats are bad for for our
154:48 all know trans fats are bad for for our heart, but we don't think about why and
154:51 heart, but we don't think about why and they they they stiff I mean the
154:53 they they they stiff I mean the researchers doing it know I mean it's
154:54 researchers doing it know I mean it's stiffen it's stiffening your cell your
154:56 stiffen it's stiffening your cell your endothelial cells. Well, donuts, right?
154:58 endothelial cells. Well, donuts, right? As in like if you go get a donut, isn't
154:59 As in like if you go get a donut, isn't a donut half? Probably foods, fried
155:02 a donut half? Probably foods, fried foods.
155:02 foods. >> There's probably some amount of trans
155:04 >> There's probably some amount of trans fat that's like below the threshold of
155:07 fat that's like below the threshold of being
155:08 being >> It's the only bad food I miss.
155:09 >> It's the only bad food I miss. >> Yeah.
155:10 >> Yeah. >> The late night donut, right?
155:11 >> The late night donut, right? >> I had so much margarine as a kid. My mom
155:14 >> I had so much margarine as a kid. My mom used to buy it by the tub. I remember
155:16 used to buy it by the tub. I remember like this. She used to go to Costco and
155:18 like this. She used to go to Costco and get like this big yellow tub of
155:20 get like this big yellow tub of margarine.
155:21 margarine. Everything was cooked in it. And I mean,
155:23 Everything was cooked in it. And I mean, it was like on our toast.
155:25 it was like on our toast. This was a battle in my home. Actually,
155:26 This was a battle in my home. Actually, I'm going to I'm going to re I'm going
155:28 I'm going to I'm going to re I'm going to resurrect some some uh family battles
155:30 to resurrect some some uh family battles of the butter. The butter margarine
155:32 of the butter. The butter margarine battle was a battle.
155:33 battle was a battle. >> Yeah.
155:34 >> Yeah. >> Um
155:35 >> Um >> butter won.
155:36 >> butter won. >> Yeah. It doesn't taste the same.
155:38 >> Yeah. It doesn't taste the same. >> But, you know, that was that was the
155:39 >> But, you know, that was that was the craze. It was the low like the fat was
155:41 craze. It was the low like the fat was bad and butter was bad and margin was
155:43 bad and butter was bad and margin was good. It turns out nope, trans fats are
155:46 good. It turns out nope, trans fats are really bad. Um but the point I was
155:48 really bad. Um but the point I was trying to make was to help contrast for
155:50 trying to make was to help contrast for people to understand. Sometimes when I
155:51 people to understand. Sometimes when I talk self fluidity, people are like
155:53 talk self fluidity, people are like what? No, it's good that people I mean I
155:55 what? No, it's good that people I mean I think it's very important that people
155:56 think it's very important that people understand some of the cellular and
155:59 understand some of the cellular and molecular underpinnings of protocols
156:01 molecular underpinnings of protocols because I strongly believe that
156:04 because I strongly believe that understanding mechanism even just a
156:06 understanding mechanism even just a little bit or striving to understand it
156:08 little bit or striving to understand it embeds the information for people makes
156:11 embeds the information for people makes it more likely that they'll do the
156:13 it more likely that they'll do the behaviors
156:14 behaviors >> and gives them a logic to work from when
156:17 >> and gives them a logic to work from when they have to make choices because life
156:19 they have to make choices because life isn't perfect.
156:20 isn't perfect. >> Right?
156:21 >> Right? >> That's I know that to be certain. I I
156:23 >> That's I know that to be certain. I I completely agree with you. I it's
156:24 completely agree with you. I it's certainly for me, but I that that is
156:27 certainly for me, but I that that is also my hope. I think that if people
156:28 also my hope. I think that if people kind of understand somewhat of the why,
156:30 kind of understand somewhat of the why, it's it's motivating to try to adopt the
156:33 it's it's motivating to try to adopt the the healthy habit,
156:34 the healthy habit, >> but also I think it helps them remember
156:37 >> but also I think it helps them remember like why it's important, right?
156:39 like why it's important, right? >> It's how the brain learns. It's a it's
156:40 >> It's how the brain learns. It's a it's the um the secret is context. The way to
156:44 the um the secret is context. The way to remember something is context. People
156:46 remember something is context. People always say it's story. No, it's context.
156:48 always say it's story. No, it's context. And uh anyway, you and I know that to be
156:50 And uh anyway, you and I know that to be true from our our background. If I may,
156:52 true from our our background. If I may, I'd like to ask about magnesium. I'm
156:54 I'd like to ask about magnesium. I'm very bullish on magnesium, in
156:56 very bullish on magnesium, in particular, magnesium 3 and 8 before
156:58 particular, magnesium 3 and 8 before sleep. I for sleep, I take AGZ because I
157:00 sleep. I for sleep, I take AGZ because I help them build it. It just has a bunch
157:02 help them build it. It just has a bunch of things like magnesium 3 and8 and
157:04 of things like magnesium 3 and8 and saffron and tart cherry. things that um
157:07 saffron and tart cherry. things that um have either been shown or are you know
157:09 have either been shown or are you know gradually there's amassing
157:12 gradually there's amassing research data to uh other people um
157:15 research data to uh other people um studies out there to support that it can
157:17 studies out there to support that it can facilitate either transition to sleep or
157:19 facilitate either transition to sleep or sleep or but magnesium 38ate and
157:21 sleep or but magnesium 38ate and magnesium bis glycinate to me are
157:23 magnesium bis glycinate to me are interchangeable uh with respect to sleep
157:26 interchangeable uh with respect to sleep but magnesium 3 and8 I'm aware there are
157:29 but magnesium 3 and8 I'm aware there are some studies that may be some cognitive
157:31 some studies that may be some cognitive benefits so magnesium obviously could be
157:33 benefits so magnesium obviously could be split into a number of things but maybe
157:34 split into a number of things but maybe we just start there with three ate
157:35 we just start there with three ate bislycinate. I have a feeling that
157:37 bislycinate. I have a feeling that you're aware of some additional
157:39 you're aware of some additional differences between them and I'd like to
157:40 differences between them and I'd like to know what you prefer for sleep or for
157:43 know what you prefer for sleep or for cognitive benefits and then maybe we get
157:44 cognitive benefits and then maybe we get into the other magnesiums.
157:47 into the other magnesiums. >> Yeah, I think so. If we if we're
157:49 >> Yeah, I think so. If we if we're comparing m magnesium bis glycinate or
157:52 comparing m magnesium bis glycinate or magnesium glycinate depending on how
157:53 magnesium glycinate depending on how many molecules of glycine are attached
157:55 many molecules of glycine are attached to the magnesium compared to magnesium
157:58 to the magnesium compared to magnesium L3N8. Um the the main difference here
158:02 L3N8. Um the the main difference here and this is based on very limited amount
158:04 and this is based on very limited amount of data. A lot of it animal data with
158:07 of data. A lot of it animal data with respect to the magnesium 3 and8 is that
158:09 respect to the magnesium 3 and8 is that that form of magnesium is supposed to
158:11 that form of magnesium is supposed to get into and cross the bloodb brain
158:13 get into and cross the bloodb brain barrier more readily and get into the
158:15 barrier more readily and get into the brain better and then in the brain it's
158:18 brain better and then in the brain it's you know helping facilitate
158:19 you know helping facilitate neurotransmission etc right helping
158:21 neurotransmission etc right helping improve cognitive function and so
158:24 improve cognitive function and so whereas magnesium glycinate or
158:27 whereas magnesium glycinate or bislycinate you're having the magnesium
158:29 bislycinate you're having the magnesium attached to the glycine um glycine also
158:32 attached to the glycine um glycine also is great to take for sleep so I like to
158:34 is great to take for sleep so I like to take magnesium bis glycinate or
158:37 take magnesium bis glycinate or glycinate for sleep
158:38 glycinate for sleep >> and um so that I would say if you're if
158:42 >> and um so that I would say if you're if you're interested in more the cognition
158:44 you're interested in more the cognition aspect
158:44 aspect >> well the studies I think you're
158:46 >> well the studies I think you're referring to the the guong lu data um
158:49 referring to the the guong lu data um you know show some in mice some
158:52 you know show some in mice some cognitive enhancement or at least some
158:53 cognitive enhancement or at least some offsetting of cognitive decline those
158:55 offsetting of cognitive decline those are different but related obviously in
158:57 are different but related obviously in anticipation of today's discussion I was
158:59 anticipation of today's discussion I was able to find one study seems okay it's
159:02 able to find one study seems okay it's not not a huge sample size showing a um
159:05 not not a huge sample size showing a um positive reports on sleep quality after
159:08 positive reports on sleep quality after magnesium L3 and8. So the studies are
159:11 magnesium L3 and8. So the studies are starting to show up
159:12 starting to show up >> starting to show up,
159:13 >> starting to show up, >> but there aren't a lot of studies on
159:15 >> but there aren't a lot of studies on magnesium for specific outcomes in
159:18 magnesium for specific outcomes in humans. And I think it's because it hits
159:20 humans. And I think it's because it hits like what 3,000 plus pathways.
159:23 like what 3,000 plus pathways. >> There's a lot of pathways. Yeah, it's a
159:25 >> There's a lot of pathways. Yeah, it's a co-actor for many enzymes.
159:26 co-actor for many enzymes. >> So if you're taking um bis glycinate
159:28 >> So if you're taking um bis glycinate before sleep, um are you taking it a
159:30 before sleep, um are you taking it a half hour or 60 minutes before sleep?
159:32 half hour or 60 minutes before sleep? I'm usually taking it I would say like
159:34 I'm usually taking it I would say like couple hours before before bed.
159:37 couple hours before before bed. >> You know, sometimes I add a little bit
159:38 >> You know, sometimes I add a little bit more magnesium in the in the mix.
159:40 more magnesium in the in the mix. Depends on the day and if I exercise
159:42 Depends on the day and if I exercise more
159:43 more >> because you do sweat out magnesium and
159:45 >> because you do sweat out magnesium and so if you're pretty athletic, your
159:48 so if you're pretty athletic, your requirements can go up by even as much
159:50 requirements can go up by even as much as 20%.
159:51 as 20%. >> U but yeah, the magnesium L3, it's
159:53 >> U but yeah, the magnesium L3, it's interesting. I very recently got
159:55 interesting. I very recently got interested in experimenting with it. You
159:56 interested in experimenting with it. You know, there's a little bit of human
159:58 know, there's a little bit of human evidence as well that it improves
159:59 evidence as well that it improves cognition. not not strong but again it's
160:01 cognition. not not strong but again it's that you know we just don't have a lot
160:03 that you know we just don't have a lot of people researching it and we have the
160:05 of people researching it and we have the animal data the animal data is a little
160:06 animal data the animal data is a little stronger don't have a lot of human data
160:09 stronger don't have a lot of human data but it seems to signal it might be
160:11 but it seems to signal it might be important it might help with cognition
160:13 important it might help with cognition right and so I kind of got interested in
160:14 right and so I kind of got interested in in experimenting with the magnesium
160:17 in experimenting with the magnesium which I haven't
160:18 which I haven't >> us it's it's a new thing for me I've
160:20 >> us it's it's a new thing for me I've been doing magnesium glycinate for a
160:22 been doing magnesium glycinate for a while
160:23 while >> I think the study actually looked at the
160:24 >> I think the study actually looked at the magine I have no financial relationship
160:27 magine I have no financial relationship to magine I want to be very clear I just
160:29 to magine I want to be very clear I just mentioned that cuz that's a common one
160:30 mentioned that cuz that's a common one out there and as far as I know I'll
160:32 out there and as far as I know I'll double check but they weren't paid by
160:33 double check but they weren't paid by magn but
160:34 magn but >> I think the mag teen did fund the study
160:36 >> I think the mag teen did fund the study >> oh they did
160:37 >> oh they did >> so yeah
160:37 >> so yeah >> okay all right we'll put a link to it
160:39 >> okay all right we'll put a link to it >> doesn't discredit it unless unless
160:41 >> doesn't discredit it unless unless there's some you know bad things going
160:43 there's some you know bad things going on which I like to think not I mean you
160:45 on which I like to think not I mean you know
160:46 know >> it's supposed to be done independently I
160:47 >> it's supposed to be done independently I mean when they pay for a group to do I
160:49 mean when they pay for a group to do I mean by law they're supposed to blind
160:52 mean by law they're supposed to blind the data and not bias the outcomes one
160:55 the data and not bias the outcomes one hopes that's what they do
160:56 hopes that's what they do >> yeah and I think for the most part
160:58 >> yeah and I think for the most part you're for the most part are probably
161:00 you're for the most part are probably okay, but it is something to consider if
161:02 okay, but it is something to consider if there's a potential COI, right?
161:04 there's a potential COI, right? >> Um, but yeah, so I don't know. So that
161:06 >> Um, but yeah, so I don't know. So that was the first part of your question was
161:07 was the first part of your question was the difference between
161:09 the difference between >> the the glycinate and the three and then
161:11 >> the the glycinate and the three and then then and then the qu the concern that I
161:13 then and then the qu the concern that I might have which might be something
161:14 might have which might be something you're not thinking about is okay well I
161:16 you're not thinking about is okay well I need to f fulfill my magnesium
161:17 need to f fulfill my magnesium requirements right and so our daily
161:19 requirements right and so our daily magnesium requirements again based on
161:21 magnesium requirements again based on our gender and our physical activity
161:24 our gender and our physical activity >> it's a range it's a sliding scale so you
161:26 >> it's a range it's a sliding scale so you know women 300 350 milligrams a day men
161:30 know women 300 350 milligrams a day men 350 400 milligrams a day really
161:31 350 400 milligrams a day really depending on how physically active you
161:33 depending on how physically active you are
161:34 are >> and this is just you your daily
161:36 >> and this is just you your daily requirements to have enough magnesium to
161:38 requirements to have enough magnesium to run you know repairing DNA damage to run
161:42 run you know repairing DNA damage to run you need magnesium to make energy to
161:44 you need magnesium to make energy to utilize energy you need it for
161:45 utilize energy you need it for neurotransmission like it's there's so
161:47 neurotransmission like it's there's so many different you know important
161:49 many different you know important functions in our body that require
161:51 functions in our body that require magnesium to work to make vitamin to
161:53 magnesium to work to make vitamin to convert vitamin D3 into the active
161:56 convert vitamin D3 into the active steroid hormone and this this to me is
161:58 steroid hormone and this this to me is like to some degree vindicating but also
162:01 like to some degree vindicating but also I'm super annoyed by it because you know
162:05 I'm super annoyed by it because you know we have all these different um studies
162:08 we have all these different um studies out there on vitamin D supplementation
162:10 out there on vitamin D supplementation and does it is it important and I mean
162:12 and does it is it important and I mean there's so many negative data out there
162:13 there's so many negative data out there well it doesn't do what we thought it's
162:14 well it doesn't do what we thought it's not doing anything u but half half the
162:17 not doing anything u but half half the US population doesn't get enough
162:19 US population doesn't get enough magnesium and so those enzymes that are
162:21 magnesium and so those enzymes that are important for converting the D3 that
162:23 important for converting the D3 that you're taking into the active steroid
162:24 you're taking into the active steroid hormone are not working properly um so
162:27 hormone are not working properly um so anyways I I'm not going to go on that
162:29 anyways I I'm not going to go on that tangent but I'm just saying magnesium is
162:30 tangent but I'm just saying magnesium is doing a lot of things so um if you are
162:33 doing a lot of things so um if you are taking the magnesium 3N8 and let's say
162:37 taking the magnesium 3N8 and let's say it is getting it's going into the blood
162:39 it is getting it's going into the blood you know more sorry the brain more
162:41 you know more sorry the brain more readily then the concern would be well
162:44 readily then the concern would be well not enough of it is around for you know
162:46 not enough of it is around for you know DNA repair and other organs and stuff
162:48 DNA repair and other organs and stuff and so you might want to get another
162:50 and so you might want to get another source of magnesium
162:51 source of magnesium >> it's all theoretical right and like
162:53 >> it's all theoretical right and like that's not I would there's no data on
162:54 that's not I would there's no data on that so just mostly because no one's
162:57 that so just mostly because no one's looking at it no one's investigating it
162:59 looking at it no one's investigating it >> there's not a lot of incentive it's
163:00 >> there's not a lot of incentive it's funny when people will always say well
163:02 funny when people will always say well there's no incentive because the drug
163:03 there's no incentive because the drug companies can't make a lot of money on
163:05 companies can't make a lot of money on it. And I sometimes that's true, but I
163:07 it. And I sometimes that's true, but I have to chuckle because as scientists I
163:09 have to chuckle because as scientists I will tell you folks uh and like I wish I
163:12 will tell you folks uh and like I wish I could just like paint this across the
163:14 could just like paint this across the sky, but then I get accused of being
163:15 sky, but then I get accused of being like a chemtrail person or something. Um
163:18 like a chemtrail person or something. Um the reason there's no studies on BPC57,
163:21 the reason there's no studies on BPC57, the reason there's no like RCTs on a
163:24 the reason there's no like RCTs on a randomized control on different forms of
163:26 randomized control on different forms of magnesium and large sample sizes because
163:28 magnesium and large sample sizes because we barely have enough money to fund the
163:31 we barely have enough money to fund the current research.
163:33 current research. Like I I I'm not trying to get make this
163:35 Like I I I'm not trying to get make this political like we just had a 1% increase
163:37 political like we just had a 1% increase in the NIH budget but like there isn't
163:39 in the NIH budget but like there isn't an infinite amount of money to run
163:41 an infinite amount of money to run studies and so scientists are if they
163:44 studies and so scientists are if they already work on magnesium or or it
163:46 already work on magnesium or or it becomes interesting to them because it
163:48 becomes interesting to them because it came up in a screen of pathways people
163:50 came up in a screen of pathways people aren't there not a lot of scientists
163:52 aren't there not a lot of scientists sitting around going oh like maybe I
163:53 sitting around going oh like maybe I should study compare magnesium malate
163:56 should study compare magnesium malate bis glycinate 3 and8 in sleep in 2,000
163:59 bis glycinate 3 and8 in sleep in 2,000 subjects male female like pregnant and
164:01 subjects male female like pregnant and permenopause like No, no, there's no
164:04 permenopause like No, no, there's no money to do it. Like, so that's where I
164:06 money to do it. Like, so that's where I get back to. Is it safe? Do you want to
164:09 get back to. Is it safe? Do you want to be in the experimental or the control
164:10 be in the experimental or the control group? Can you afford to be in the
164:12 group? Can you afford to be in the experimental or the control group?
164:14 experimental or the control group? >> Yeah,
164:14 >> Yeah, >> I feel like that's the that's like all
164:16 >> I feel like that's the that's like all we've got. And I'm only I'm chuckling
164:18 we've got. And I'm only I'm chuckling out of it's a sort of like a laughter of
164:21 out of it's a sort of like a laughter of pain because I get where people are
164:22 pain because I get where people are coming from, but the drug companies are
164:24 coming from, but the drug companies are not like avoiding studying magnesium
164:27 not like avoiding studying magnesium because there's no money to make. It's
164:28 because there's no money to make. It's because I don't know what would that
164:30 because I don't know what would that even look like? What end point? What
164:32 even look like? What end point? What disease? What? Like, yeah. Anyway,
164:34 disease? What? Like, yeah. Anyway, forgive me for editorializing, but
164:36 forgive me for editorializing, but >> yeah, you're not going to cure,
164:38 >> yeah, you're not going to cure, >> you know, cardiovascular disease or
164:40 >> you know, cardiovascular disease or cancer by taking a magnesium supplement.
164:41 cancer by taking a magnesium supplement. I mean, the the these these
164:43 I mean, the the these these neutruticals, these vitamins and
164:44 neutruticals, these vitamins and minerals, they're they're about
164:46 minerals, they're they're about prevention really and and and giving
164:49 prevention really and and and giving your body the right nutrients that it
164:51 your body the right nutrients that it needs to do and function properly. You
164:53 needs to do and function properly. You know, whether that is, you know, getting
164:55 know, whether that is, you know, getting enough sleep, you know, when you're when
164:56 enough sleep, you know, when you're when you're stressed, when your cortisol goes
164:58 you're stressed, when your cortisol goes up, you know, chronically, you're
164:59 up, you know, chronically, you're depleting magnesium. you know, it's it's
165:01 depleting magnesium. you know, it's it's it's it's very like magnesium is being
165:03 it's it's very like magnesium is being used to deal with that stress, right?
165:06 used to deal with that stress, right? So,
165:06 So, >> there there's a reason that we need
165:08 >> there there's a reason that we need things like magnesium and, you know,
165:10 things like magnesium and, you know, vitamin D. It's a it gets converted into
165:13 vitamin D. It's a it gets converted into steroid hormone changing 5% of our, you
165:16 steroid hormone changing 5% of our, you know, our our genome. So, yeah, it's
165:20 know, our our genome. So, yeah, it's different. It's not like a
165:21 different. It's not like a pharmaceutical where you're you don't
165:23 pharmaceutical where you're you don't need this, you know, to function
165:24 need this, you know, to function optimally, but it might. It's it's the
165:26 optimally, but it might. It's it's the whole like, okay, I'm sick and now I
165:29 whole like, okay, I'm sick and now I need this, you know, or I or I'm
165:30 need this, you know, or I or I'm overweight, right? We got the GLP ones,
165:33 overweight, right? We got the GLP ones, right? I'm I'm fat. I'm obese. Um, and I
165:35 right? I'm I'm fat. I'm obese. Um, and I need to, you know, help fix that. And so
165:38 need to, you know, help fix that. And so that's kind of a different paradigm than
165:40 that's kind of a different paradigm than >> specific endpoint type stuff.
165:42 >> specific endpoint type stuff. >> Yeah. Exactly.
165:42 >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. I think that's super important for
165:44 >> Yeah. I think that's super important for people to hear that. Oh, by the way, I I
165:46 people to hear that. Oh, by the way, I I should just say um for your for your
165:48 should just say um for your for your sake um and for the listeners, I divide
165:50 sake um and for the listeners, I divide supplements into basically four
165:52 supplements into basically four categories like um food replacement like
165:55 categories like um food replacement like whey protein or a protein bar or you
165:57 whey protein or a protein bar or you know obvious sort of general support,
166:00 know obvious sort of general support, specific effects, and then experimental
166:02 specific effects, and then experimental maybe.
166:03 maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah.
166:04 >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and so I think what we're talking
166:05 >> Um and so I think what we're talking about here with magnesium is kind of
166:07 about here with magnesium is kind of combination of maybe helps with sleep.
166:10 combination of maybe helps with sleep. Um some specific effects that you're
166:11 Um some specific effects that you're aware of like required and you're trying
166:13 aware of like required and you're trying to top off. You're trying to make sure
166:14 to top off. You're trying to make sure that you're covering a deficiency.
166:16 that you're covering a deficiency. >> Yes.
166:17 >> Yes. >> Okay.
166:17 >> Okay. >> Yes. Trying to make sure you're getting
166:19 >> Yes. Trying to make sure you're getting enough of the magnesium. Exactly.
166:20 enough of the magnesium. Exactly. >> Are there any other things that you take
166:22 >> Are there any other things that you take that are just trying to make sure that
166:24 that are just trying to make sure that you're not deficient anywhere? Um or for
166:27 you're not deficient anywhere? Um or for specific reasons? We've talked about a
166:28 specific reasons? We've talked about a few along the way here. Glutamine,
166:30 few along the way here. Glutamine, vitamin D, omega-3s, creatine.
166:33 vitamin D, omega-3s, creatine. >> I take a multivitamin and that is to
166:36 >> I take a multivitamin and that is to cover my bases because, you know,
166:37 cover my bases because, you know, there's there's a lot of things in a
166:39 there's there's a lot of things in a multivitamin. You have to find obviously
166:41 multivitamin. You have to find obviously a good quality one. But
166:43 a good quality one. But >> um and
166:46 >> um and >> anyone that tells you that multivitamins
166:48 >> anyone that tells you that multivitamins are useless, they're wrong. I'm going to
166:49 are useless, they're wrong. I'm going to tell you that they're wrong because I I
166:51 tell you that they're wrong because I I think now we have
166:54 think now we have >> pretty strong data, three very large
166:56 >> pretty strong data, three very large randomized control trials, part of the
166:58 randomized control trials, part of the Cosmos trials. Have you heard of these
167:00 Cosmos trials. Have you heard of these studies? M and it's really I think
167:02 studies? M and it's really I think pretty clear that in these studies older
167:06 pretty clear that in these studies older adults we're talking 65 years and older
167:08 adults we're talking 65 years and older that are taking a multivitamin
167:10 that are taking a multivitamin supplement for you know was it a year I
167:12 supplement for you know was it a year I think it was um it could be two but I
167:15 think it was um it could be two but I think it was a year and it was by the
167:17 think it was a year and it was by the way Centrum Silver it was like your
167:18 way Centrum Silver it was like your standard you know anyone could afford to
167:21 standard you know anyone could afford to get it get it at Walmart type of vitamin
167:23 get it get it at Walmart type of vitamin um and after a year of taking this
167:26 um and after a year of taking this multivitamin it globally reduced brain
167:29 multivitamin it globally reduced brain aging by about 2.1 years three trials
167:32 aging by about 2.1 years three trials globally reduced brain aging by 2.1
167:34 globally reduced brain aging by 2.1 years battery of tests that are done
167:36 years battery of tests that are done right it's sure you know I'm just
167:38 right it's sure you know I'm just talking about general here and it also
167:41 talking about general here and it also reduced episodic brain aging by 4.9
167:44 reduced episodic brain aging by 4.9 years so that would be you know as
167:46 years so that would be you know as people probably already familiar with
167:48 people probably already familiar with that listen to this podcast you know
167:50 that listen to this podcast you know episodic memory that's the part of
167:51 episodic memory that's the part of memory that's involved in like
167:53 memory that's involved in like remembering events and and people and
167:55 remembering events and and people and like experiences am I right I mean part
167:57 like experiences am I right I mean part of like not not as much
167:58 of like not not as much >> sequence of
168:00 >> sequence of of things. Yeah. And so, you know,
168:02 of things. Yeah. And so, you know, that's a big effect for just a daily
168:05 that's a big effect for just a daily multivitamin, you know, and so, uh, for
168:08 multivitamin, you know, and so, uh, for that reason, you know, I mean, I've been
168:10 that reason, you know, I mean, I've been taking it before this these studies came
168:12 taking it before this these studies came out, but that my parents, you know,
168:15 out, but that my parents, you know, anyone that's older adult should be
168:17 anyone that's older adult should be taking a multivitamin. So, that's
168:18 taking a multivitamin. So, that's another one that I take.
168:20 another one that I take. >> Um, and I take it to cover my bases as
168:22 >> Um, and I take it to cover my bases as well. I'm obviously not an older adult
168:23 well. I'm obviously not an older adult and who knows it might not have the same
168:25 and who knows it might not have the same effect on me but um you know it's one of
168:28 effect on me but um you know it's one of those that it's it's not harmful
168:30 those that it's it's not harmful >> um if I'm you know it's a little bit of
168:31 >> um if I'm you know it's a little bit of an expensive urine fine but I there are
168:33 an expensive urine fine but I there are it is covering some of my bases in terms
168:35 it is covering some of my bases in terms of some of the micronutrients in it
168:36 of some of the micronutrients in it right
168:37 right >> the other ones that I take in besides
168:39 >> the other ones that I take in besides the one that you mentioned which is
168:40 the one that you mentioned which is vitamin D omega-3 I do creatine
168:44 vitamin D omega-3 I do creatine magnesium I do I do magnesium glycinate
168:47 magnesium I do I do magnesium glycinate I should look into the bis glycine
168:48 I should look into the bis glycine because I definitely would like another
168:50 because I definitely would like another molecule of glycine I like for my sleep.
168:52 molecule of glycine I like for my sleep. >> But I also sometimes take another form
168:54 >> But I also sometimes take another form of magnesium which is it's like a
168:57 of magnesium which is it's like a mixture of magnesium malate and tarate I
169:00 mixture of magnesium malate and tarate I think are the and and glycinate is is
169:03 think are the and and glycinate is is also in that but sometimes I take that
169:04 also in that but sometimes I take that for sleep
169:06 for sleep >> and then I take ubiquininal
169:08 >> and then I take ubiquininal >> um for mitochondrial health.
169:10 >> um for mitochondrial health. >> You you like the data on that obviously
169:12 >> You you like the data on that obviously if you're taking it
169:13 if you're taking it >> there's stronger data I think on
169:14 >> there's stronger data I think on ubiquinon
169:15 ubiquinon >> which is the oxidized form it's more
169:17 >> which is the oxidized form it's more stable
169:18 stable >> there's just when I say stronger I mean
169:20 >> there's just when I say stronger I mean more data. Do you take co-enzyme Q10?
169:22 more data. Do you take co-enzyme Q10? >> So Co CoQ10 is Yeah. CoQ10 is
169:25 >> So Co CoQ10 is Yeah. CoQ10 is ubiquininal.
169:26 ubiquininal. >> Okay.
169:26 >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so and so I'm taking the
169:28 >> Yeah. And so and so I'm taking the reduced form of it, which is
169:29 reduced form of it, which is ubiquininal. The the more stable form
169:31 ubiquininal. The the more stable form would be ubiquinon.
169:32 would be ubiquinon. >> Are those trademark names? Because I I
169:35 >> Are those trademark names? Because I I take co-enzyme Q10.
169:36 take co-enzyme Q10. >> Yeah. You're taking
169:37 >> Yeah. You're taking >> I'm guessing if I took a closer look at
169:38 >> I'm guessing if I took a closer look at the bottle, I'd see the ubiquinon.
169:40 the bottle, I'd see the ubiquinon. >> It's ubiquin. Ubiquinone.
169:42 >> It's ubiquin. Ubiquinone. >> The ubiquininal is a little bit more
169:43 >> The ubiquininal is a little bit more bioavailable, but yeah. So I I'm I'm
169:46 bioavailable, but yeah. So I I'm I'm pretty convinced that that helps with
169:47 pretty convinced that that helps with mitochondrial function. um you know it's
169:51 mitochondrial function. um you know it's not like you could always have more
169:52 not like you could always have more data, right? So we'll just leave it at
169:54 data, right? So we'll just leave it at that.
169:55 that. >> The other one I take is now I'm taking
169:58 >> The other one I take is now I'm taking uralithn
169:59 uralithn >> in the form of I'm taking moper by the
170:01 >> in the form of I'm taking moper by the way I have nothing to do with these
170:02 way I have nothing to do with these companies but there's now I've just been
170:05 companies but there's now I've just been over the years increasingly interested.
170:07 over the years increasingly interested. So uraliththan A is something that is
170:09 So uraliththan A is something that is formed from a type of polyphenol that's
170:11 formed from a type of polyphenol that's found in some fruits like pomegranate
170:15 found in some fruits like pomegranate being the main one I think and
170:18 being the main one I think and raspberries may also have some I think
170:19 raspberries may also have some I think walnuts also but it's elagitanin is the
170:22 walnuts also but it's elagitanin is the polyphenol and these elagitanins get
170:25 polyphenol and these elagitanins get metabolized by the gut microbiome and
170:28 metabolized by the gut microbiome and the metabolites that are formed one of
170:30 the metabolites that are formed one of them is called uroliththn and so
170:33 them is called uroliththn and so uroliththn is a compound that seems to
170:38 uroliththn is a compound that seems to stimulate the process of mphagy which is
170:41 stimulate the process of mphagy which is a very specific form of autophagy that's
170:43 a very specific form of autophagy that's that's only for mitochondria and you
170:47 that's only for mitochondria and you know that's been shown in there have
170:49 know that's been shown in there have been randomized control trials showing
170:51 been randomized control trials showing this in humans. It does stimulate mphagy
170:54 this in humans. It does stimulate mphagy um blood cells as well as um muscle
170:57 um blood cells as well as um muscle biopsy but that's an important cleanup
170:59 biopsy but that's an important cleanup process for for how our mitochondria
171:01 process for for how our mitochondria repair themselves. there's no repair
171:03 repair themselves. there's no repair enzymes, right? Like they're, you know,
171:05 enzymes, right? Like they're, you know, part of that repair process is mphagy
171:07 part of that repair process is mphagy where they're getting rid of selectively
171:09 where they're getting rid of selectively can get rid of parts of mitochondria
171:10 can get rid of parts of mitochondria that are damaged. So, it's really a
171:12 that are damaged. So, it's really a rejuvenation and and some of this the
171:14 rejuvenation and and some of this the clinical data I would say is emerging.
171:16 clinical data I would say is emerging. More needs to be done, but it seems to
171:18 More needs to be done, but it seems to in some cases improve endurance
171:20 in some cases improve endurance performance, which makes sense because
171:21 performance, which makes sense because they rely heavily on mitochondria, but
171:23 they rely heavily on mitochondria, but even also um help with the immune system
171:26 even also um help with the immune system and and this whole inflammaging. So, it
171:28 and and this whole inflammaging. So, it helps keep immune cells. it seems like
171:30 helps keep immune cells. it seems like it's helping keeping immune cells quote
171:32 it's helping keeping immune cells quote unquote younger.
171:34 unquote younger. So again, emerging data, but it's I'm in
171:37 So again, emerging data, but it's I'm in that I I'm like I'm the experiment
171:39 that I I'm like I'm the experiment group. It seems to be safe and I'm not
171:41 group. It seems to be safe and I'm not taking too high of a dose. So that's
171:43 taking too high of a dose. So that's another one that I'm supplementing with.
171:45 another one that I'm supplementing with. >> The other one that I'm taking also is uh
171:49 >> The other one that I'm taking also is uh a very a form of I would say I'm going
171:51 a very a form of I would say I'm going to call it sulforophane, but it's not
171:53 to call it sulforophane, but it's not sulfurophane. It's the precursor to
171:55 sulfurophane. It's the precursor to sulfurophane glucaraphin because that's
171:57 sulfurophane glucaraphin because that's more stable. And so I take something
171:59 more stable. And so I take something called aol um which the reason I take
172:02 called aol um which the reason I take that one is because there's oh it's 13
172:05 that one is because there's oh it's 13 now a new study just came out 13 studies
172:07 now a new study just came out 13 studies using that that form um and sulfurophane
172:09 using that that form um and sulfurophane is also one of those plant
172:11 is also one of those plant phyitochemicals it's formed it's found
172:13 phyitochemicals it's formed it's found in cruciferous vegetables as you know
172:15 in cruciferous vegetables as you know we've talked about this before so I'll
172:17 we've talked about this before so I'll I'll try to leave make it brief but um
172:19 I'll try to leave make it brief but um so glucaraphin is in in these
172:21 so glucaraphin is in in these cruciferous vegetables like broccoli
172:22 cruciferous vegetables like broccoli broccoli sprouts are really really great
172:24 broccoli sprouts are really really great source of it and when the plant is
172:28 source of it and when the plant is crushed, you know, like when you eat it,
172:29 crushed, you know, like when you eat it, eat broccoli or chew it, whatever. The
172:31 eat broccoli or chew it, whatever. The an enzyme is activated that converts
172:33 an enzyme is activated that converts glucaraphin into sulforophane. The
172:35 glucaraphin into sulforophane. The reason I take it is because I've been
172:37 reason I take it is because I've been now convinced by, I would say, the
172:39 now convinced by, I would say, the limited number of human studies,
172:41 limited number of human studies, clinical studies, but also the totality
172:43 clinical studies, but also the totality of evidence looking at cruciferous
172:44 of evidence looking at cruciferous vegetables in general and then also
172:46 vegetables in general and then also animal data that um it's really
172:49 animal data that um it's really important. It's probably the the best
172:51 important. It's probably the the best naturally occurring dietary activator of
172:53 naturally occurring dietary activator of a stress response pathway that is
172:56 a stress response pathway that is important for detoxification. And that
172:58 important for detoxification. And that that pathway is the NRF2 pathway. I'm
172:59 that pathway is the NRF2 pathway. I'm sure you've heard of that pathway.
173:01 sure you've heard of that pathway. Sulfurophane is a very very powerful
173:03 Sulfurophane is a very very powerful activator of that pathway. And what I
173:05 activator of that pathway. And what I mean by pathway is that gene is turning
173:07 mean by pathway is that gene is turning on and turning off many many other
173:09 on and turning off many many other genes. What we know about it is that
173:11 genes. What we know about it is that it's very important for activating the
173:14 it's very important for activating the the detoxification
173:16 the detoxification genes that are involved in detoxifying
173:17 genes that are involved in detoxifying things that are that are harmful to us.
173:19 things that are that are harmful to us. And so the classic studies that have
173:20 And so the classic studies that have been done, some of them, most of them in
173:22 been done, some of them, most of them in China where air pollution is very high,
173:24 China where air pollution is very high, is that if you take, you know, this
173:26 is that if you take, you know, this broccoli sprout sulfurophane extract,
173:29 broccoli sprout sulfurophane extract, you can start to excrete compounds that
173:31 you can start to excrete compounds that are found in air pollution like benzene
173:33 are found in air pollution like benzene that are carcinogenic, right? And you
173:36 that are carcinogenic, right? And you can start to excrete it after 24 hours
173:38 can start to excrete it after 24 hours by like 60%. Great. What about plastics?
173:41 by like 60%. Great. What about plastics? >> So, that's that's my that's my thing.
173:42 >> So, that's that's my that's my thing. That's why I'm taking it my whole family
173:44 That's why I'm taking it my whole family because the same enzymes that are
173:46 because the same enzymes that are activated by um by the the sulfurophane
173:52 activated by um by the the sulfurophane >> that detoxify
173:54 >> that detoxify benzene. So, basically you're you're
173:56 benzene. So, basically you're you're detoxifying it. What I mean is you're
173:57 detoxifying it. What I mean is you're basically making it water soluble so you
173:58 basically making it water soluble so you can excrete it through urine. Okay.
174:01 can excrete it through urine. Okay. >> The same ones that's exactly what BP
174:03 >> The same ones that's exactly what BP those enzymes do to BPA. They make it
174:06 those enzymes do to BPA. They make it water soluble and help you excrete it
174:08 water soluble and help you excrete it through urine. There's no human data
174:11 through urine. There's no human data showing this yet. I want someone to do
174:13 showing this yet. I want someone to do the study, but we do have animal
174:15 the study, but we do have animal evidence where, you know, animals are
174:17 evidence where, you know, animals are given a high dose of BPA and
174:19 given a high dose of BPA and sulfurophane and it protects against the
174:20 sulfurophane and it protects against the toxicity.
174:22 toxicity. >> I basically think that it someone's
174:23 >> I basically think that it someone's going to show it and it's going to be
174:25 going to show it and it's going to be clear because the enzymes that are, you
174:27 clear because the enzymes that are, you know, involved are activated by this,
174:29 know, involved are activated by this, you know, by sulforophane and that's
174:30 you know, by sulforophane and that's been shown with benzene and acryine
174:31 been shown with benzene and acryine excretion, right? So why wouldn't it be
174:33 excretion, right? So why wouldn't it be BPA? You never know. mechanistic logic.
174:35 BPA? You never know. mechanistic logic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's
174:37 >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's another reason why also it increases um
174:39 another reason why also it increases um it's been shown in human studies to very
174:41 it's been shown in human studies to very powerfully increase glutathione in both
174:43 powerfully increase glutathione in both the plasma and the brain. And that's
174:44 the plasma and the brain. And that's also through the NRF2 pathway. It
174:46 also through the NRF2 pathway. It activates the powerful antioxidant
174:48 activates the powerful antioxidant pathway. It also deactivates phase one
174:50 pathway. It also deactivates phase one biotansformation enzymes. Those are
174:53 biotansformation enzymes. Those are involved in um turning a procarinogen
174:55 involved in um turning a procarinogen into a carcinogen. So those are things
174:57 into a carcinogen. So those are things like you're eating, you know, you're
174:59 like you're eating, you know, you're you're grilling your meat at a high
175:00 you're grilling your meat at a high temperature and you're getting
175:01 temperature and you're getting heterosyclic amines, right? I mean these
175:04 heterosyclic amines, right? I mean these these things can be harmful and but our
175:08 these things can be harmful and but our body can deal with it.
175:09 body can deal with it. >> Yeah. We had a cancer doc on here
175:10 >> Yeah. We had a cancer doc on here recently and I was scared to ask him the
175:12 recently and I was scared to ask him the question cuz I didn't want the answer
175:13 question cuz I didn't want the answer but I did want the answer of you know
175:15 but I did want the answer of you know the the char on meat
175:17 the the char on meat >> and he's like it's pretty pretty serious
175:19 >> and he's like it's pretty pretty serious carcinogen that's real. I mean the
175:21 carcinogen that's real. I mean the occasional thing isn't going to
175:22 occasional thing isn't going to >> be a problem. You'll be relieved to know
175:24 >> be a problem. You'll be relieved to know and this is not a promotional that the
175:25 and this is not a promotional that the can that you're drinking out of these
175:27 can that you're drinking out of these are intentionally BPA BPS and pests
175:29 are intentionally BPA BPS and pests free. We've that we test them. I'd be
175:31 free. We've that we test them. I'd be happy to send you the results. I already
175:32 happy to send you the results. I already know I already knew about that because I
175:33 know I already knew about that because I know that you and I are both I I am wary
175:35 know that you and I are both I I am wary of of the the BPA and um and the rest. I
175:39 of of the the BPA and um and the rest. I think it's wild that 10 years ago people
175:42 think it's wild that 10 years ago people like Charles Polloquin were saying don't
175:43 like Charles Polloquin were saying don't handle receipts and
175:45 handle receipts and >> you know and everyone like this is
175:46 >> you know and everyone like this is really kooky or actually back then no
175:48 really kooky or actually back then no one even heard what he was saying. It
175:49 one even heard what he was saying. It was such a niche thing. Then people were
175:51 was such a niche thing. Then people were very I think disparaging of people
175:53 very I think disparaging of people saying be wary of receipts. Now I think
175:55 saying be wary of receipts. Now I think the um the microplastics um and the BPA
175:59 the um the microplastics um and the BPA BPS uh PAS concern is is really taking
176:03 BPS uh PAS concern is is really taking hold more broadly and I think
176:06 hold more broadly and I think >> that you know the the tables have
176:09 >> that you know the the tables have turned.
176:10 turned. >> Yeah. And really obviously you can't
176:13 >> Yeah. And really obviously you can't eliminate them completely. It's
176:14 eliminate them completely. It's impossible. They're everywhere. They're
176:16 impossible. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. I mean we're we're
176:18 everywhere. I mean we're we're >> clothing I heard is the main
176:20 >> clothing I heard is the main >> it's the main source of microplastics in
176:21 >> it's the main source of microplastics in the ocean,
176:22 the ocean, >> right? because our wash we're washing
176:24 >> right? because our wash we're washing our clothes and there's they're this
176:27 our clothes and there's they're this cute shirt that I'm wearing I mean it's
176:28 cute shirt that I'm wearing I mean it's it's got microplastics in it for sure.
176:30 it's got microplastics in it for sure. Um and and so every time you're washing
176:32 Um and and so every time you're washing your clothes you're all the
176:34 your clothes you're all the microplastics are coming out and and
176:37 microplastics are coming out and and getting into the ocean and also then
176:38 getting into the ocean and also then when you put your clothes in the dryer
176:40 when you put your clothes in the dryer and if your dryer is ventilating
176:41 and if your dryer is ventilating anywhere in your house they're micropl
176:43 anywhere in your house they're micropl you're breathing those in the
176:45 you're breathing those in the microplastics. They sell these traps.
176:47 microplastics. They sell these traps. When I did the episode on microplastics,
176:48 When I did the episode on microplastics, I found out that there online you can I
176:50 I found out that there online you can I think it costs it's not it's not cheap
176:52 think it costs it's not it's not cheap cheap, but it's like considering they
176:53 cheap, but it's like considering they last a while. I think they're somewhere
176:55 last a while. I think they're somewhere with refill somewhere in the
176:57 with refill somewhere in the neighborhood of I want to say something
176:58 neighborhood of I want to say something like $70, but it traps supposedly traps
177:01 like $70, but it traps supposedly traps the micro in the washing machine.
177:02 the micro in the washing machine. >> In the washing machine and in Europe, I
177:04 >> In the washing machine and in Europe, I think this is actually built in or is
177:06 think this is actually built in or is required in a in a number of countries
177:08 required in a in a number of countries like they they're way ahead of us. Yeah,
177:10 like they they're way ahead of us. Yeah, >> they're way ahead of us on a number of
177:12 >> they're way ahead of us on a number of things. I mean on a few things they're
177:14 things. I mean on a few things they're really they're far behind I must say
177:16 really they're far behind I must say with respect to health but on on many
177:17 with respect to health but on on many things they are way ahead of us.
177:19 things they are way ahead of us. >> Yeah. Well clearly with the Switzerland
177:20 >> Yeah. Well clearly with the Switzerland people in Switzerland being 80 like 88%
177:23 people in Switzerland being 80 like 88% of them being physically active. They're
177:24 of them being physically active. They're way ahead of us on that.
177:26 way ahead of us on that. >> I'm excited to share with you that
177:27 >> I'm excited to share with you that Matina the Yerba Mate drink that I
177:29 Matina the Yerba Mate drink that I helped create is now available at
177:31 helped create is now available at Sprouts Market nationwide. Longtime
177:34 Sprouts Market nationwide. Longtime listeners of the Huberman Lab podcast
177:35 listeners of the Huberman Lab podcast know that Yerba Mate is my preferred
177:38 know that Yerba Mate is my preferred caffeine source. It provides a smooth
177:40 caffeine source. It provides a smooth energy lift without giving you the
177:42 energy lift without giving you the jitters. And it has many other benefits
177:44 jitters. And it has many other benefits such as helping regulate blood sugar,
177:46 such as helping regulate blood sugar, improving digestion, mild appetite
177:48 improving digestion, mild appetite suppression, and more. Matina is my
177:50 suppression, and more. Matina is my absolute favorite of all the Yerba Mate
177:52 absolute favorite of all the Yerba Mate brands out there, and believe me, I've
177:54 brands out there, and believe me, I've tried them all. The flavors are
177:56 tried them all. The flavors are fantastic. I drink at least three cans
177:58 fantastic. I drink at least three cans of Matina every single day. You'll often
178:00 of Matina every single day. You'll often see them on the table during our podcast
178:02 see them on the table during our podcast recordings. I absolutely love the
178:04 recordings. I absolutely love the product, and I'm proud to now have it
178:05 product, and I'm proud to now have it sold at Sprouts Market. Also, there's a
178:08 sold at Sprouts Market. Also, there's a great new offer. They are giving away a
178:10 great new offer. They are giving away a free can of Matina to anyone who buys it
178:12 free can of Matina to anyone who buys it at Sprouts and sends in a photo of their
178:14 at Sprouts and sends in a photo of their receipt. To learn more about how you can
178:16 receipt. To learn more about how you can get a free can of Matina, go to
178:18 get a free can of Matina, go to drinkmatina.com/offer.
178:20 drinkmatina.com/offer. Again, that's drinkmatina.com/offer
178:24 Again, that's drinkmatina.com/offer to get a can of matina for free at your
178:26 to get a can of matina for free at your local Sprouts Market. What is your
178:29 local Sprouts Market. What is your threshold for you? And what do you think
178:32 threshold for you? And what do you think is kind of reasonable levels of what's
178:35 is kind of reasonable levels of what's actionable for you? Like how do you set
178:37 actionable for you? Like how do you set that? I think it will help people kind
178:38 that? I think it will help people kind of understand how you're approaching
178:40 of understand how you're approaching stuff.
178:41 stuff. >> What's actionable in terms of improving
178:43 >> What's actionable in terms of improving what I'm interested in improving my
178:44 what I'm interested in improving my health? Like
178:45 health? Like >> yeah. Like I mean without picking any
178:46 >> yeah. Like I mean without picking any specific example like when you look at
178:48 specific example like when you look at the literature and you see let's say
178:50 the literature and you see let's say let's take BPC7. It's kind of a fun one
178:53 let's take BPC7. It's kind of a fun one because everyone's excited about this
178:54 because everyone's excited about this now except the physicians
178:56 now except the physicians >> um who don't like working with peptides
178:58 >> um who don't like working with peptides besides GLPs or other FDA approved
179:00 besides GLPs or other FDA approved peptides. They're like freaking out
179:02 peptides. They're like freaking out online.
179:03 online. >> Okay.
179:03 >> Okay. >> From them all the time. compounding
179:05 >> From them all the time. compounding pharmacy just got the green light that
179:06 pharmacy just got the green light that they're going to be able to do basically
179:08 they're going to be able to do basically whatever exel except sell redat true
179:10 whatever exel except sell redat true tide which is under patent um so there
179:14 tide which is under patent um so there are many many animal studies on BPC57
179:18 are many many animal studies on BPC57 showing accelerated cartilage growth
179:20 showing accelerated cartilage growth nerve growth after injury and on and on
179:22 nerve growth after injury and on and on and on and on and angiogenesis so
179:24 and on and on and angiogenesis so there's some potential cancer risk there
179:26 there's some potential cancer risk there right but basically zero human data
179:30 right but basically zero human data >> there's one study weak study self-report
179:33 >> there's one study weak study self-report there's actually a clinical trial where
179:34 there's actually a clinical trial where they I'm not making this up folks is BPC
179:36 they I'm not making this up folks is BPC enemas very high dosage for for a uh for
179:40 enemas very high dosage for for a uh for some sort of bowel disease or bowel
179:42 some sort of bowel disease or bowel inflammation and the study was like I
179:44 inflammation and the study was like I don't think the study was completed or
179:46 don't think the study was completed or something like that don't ask me why no
179:48 something like that don't ask me why no I'm not making this up um but that's
179:51 I'm not making this up um but that's pretty much the only human data that I'm
179:53 pretty much the only human data that I'm aware of um but tons of people injecting
179:58 aware of um but tons of people injecting and swallowing BPC and saying yeah it
180:01 and swallowing BPC and saying yeah it helped me recover you know heal more
180:03 helped me recover you know heal more quickly How do you think about something
180:05 quickly How do you think about something like that? Like that current condition.
180:08 like that? Like that current condition. >> First of all, if you're not doing it,
180:09 >> First of all, if you're not doing it, you're not going to be doing this every
180:10 you're not going to be doing this every day forever, right? Like this is a short
180:13 day forever, right? Like this is a short defined period of time where you're
180:14 defined period of time where you're going to do your injections. Oh, really?
180:16 going to do your injections. Oh, really? Okay.
180:16 Okay. >> I know. I know. I mean, I don't know
180:18 >> I know. I know. I mean, I don't know what people do. Unfortunately, I think
180:19 what people do. Unfortunately, I think some people like to take it every day,
180:21 some people like to take it every day, but let's assume for uh let's assume two
180:23 but let's assume for uh let's assume two months maximum to work around an injury
180:25 months maximum to work around an injury or through an injury.
180:26 or through an injury. >> Yeah. I like for people that I know that
180:28 >> Yeah. I like for people that I know that have experimented with it, it's been
180:29 have experimented with it, it's been like 3 months
180:31 like 3 months >> and a period of time and they did have
180:33 >> and a period of time and they did have improvements and they could have been
180:34 improvements and they could have been through placebo which I will you know
180:36 through placebo which I will you know say is possible but for me it it really
180:38 say is possible but for me it it really comes down to like is it safe?
180:40 comes down to like is it safe? >> Is it safe? Okay. If it's safe, you
180:44 >> Is it safe? Okay. If it's safe, you obviously have to get the good source
180:45 obviously have to get the good source because if it's all thesearmacies now, I
180:47 because if it's all thesearmacies now, I mean, that's a problem because we do
180:48 mean, that's a problem because we do know that that's a big area of I would
180:51 know that that's a big area of I would say concern with any sort of
180:53 say concern with any sort of neutrautical,
180:55 neutrautical, you know, sort of thing. And I would put
180:56 you know, sort of thing. And I would put this into that category
180:58 this into that category >> is that, you know, people are putting
181:01 >> is that, you know, people are putting things in the products that are not
181:02 things in the products that are not necessarily what's supposed to be in
181:04 necessarily what's supposed to be in there and they're not really paying
181:06 there and they're not really paying attention to quality because it's not
181:07 attention to quality because it's not regulated, right? So um so if you can
181:10 regulated, right? So um so if you can get a good source of it and you trust
181:12 get a good source of it and you trust the source of it and you have maybe
181:15 the source of it and you have maybe someone who is qualified to prescribe it
181:17 someone who is qualified to prescribe it to you because there are you know
181:19 to you because there are you know naturopaths and stuff like that
181:20 naturopaths and stuff like that functional medicine practitioners there
181:22 functional medicine practitioners there are people that are prescribing them
181:24 are people that are prescribing them >> and some MDs some board certified MDs
181:27 >> and some MDs some board certified MDs are
181:27 are >> did their residency did all the thing I
181:29 >> did their residency did all the thing I know because I'm friends with some of
181:30 know because I'm friends with some of them and a lot of doctors are happy to
181:33 them and a lot of doctors are happy to prescribe peptides off
181:35 prescribe peptides off >> um sort of off label like smearellin for
181:38 >> um sort of off label like smearellin for purposes other than what it was FDA
181:39 purposes other than what it was FDA approved for. I mean, I'm not taking it,
181:42 approved for. I mean, I'm not taking it, you know, as I mentioned earlier, but
181:43 you know, as I mentioned earlier, but >> but you've tried it.
181:45 >> but you've tried it. >> It very quickly spiked my PSA and nuked
181:48 >> It very quickly spiked my PSA and nuked my REM sleep and increased my deep
181:50 my REM sleep and increased my deep sleep. So, I was like, I don't want to I
181:51 sleep. So, I was like, I don't want to I don't I'm not interested in those
181:52 don't I'm not interested in those effects. And um and I do worry about
181:55 effects. And um and I do worry about tickling the growth hormone pathway too
181:58 tickling the growth hormone pathway too much or too long because of,
182:00 much or too long because of, >> you know, I don't you know, hopefully I
182:02 >> you know, I don't you know, hopefully I don't have any tumors sitting around,
182:03 don't have any tumors sitting around, but if I do, I don't want to vascularize
182:05 but if I do, I don't want to vascularize them or grow them,
182:06 them or grow them, >> right? Yeah. So for me, I mean, I'm
182:09 >> right? Yeah. So for me, I mean, I'm always more on the cautious side to be
182:10 always more on the cautious side to be honest. And so for me, the safety thing
182:12 honest. And so for me, the safety thing has to be
182:13 has to be >> checked first.
182:15 >> checked first. >> And then at that point, if I can check
182:17 >> And then at that point, if I can check the safety thing, then it's like you
182:19 the safety thing, then it's like you said, I mean, I can't I I'll try it.
182:21 said, I mean, I can't I I'll try it. Like I mean, I'm doing like some of
182:22 Like I mean, I'm doing like some of these supplements that like mopure for
182:24 these supplements that like mopure for one, like the urthan a there's not like
182:26 one, like the urthan a there's not like tons and tons of data on it, but it
182:28 tons and tons of data on it, but it seems to be safe
182:29 seems to be safe >> and you know, I'm experimenting with it.
182:32 >> and you know, I'm experimenting with it. >> I'm also experiment experimenting with a
182:34 >> I'm also experiment experimenting with a lot of other things, so it's hard to
182:35 lot of other things, so it's hard to know what's working.
182:36 know what's working. >> Sure. Sure. Nicotenomide ribocide is
182:37 >> Sure. Sure. Nicotenomide ribocide is another one I take. Um, back on to the
182:39 another one I take. Um, back on to the what I what I take.
182:40 what I what I take. >> Is that for a longevity effect? I mean,
182:42 >> Is that for a longevity effect? I mean, I take sublingual NMN. No relationship
182:45 I take sublingual NMN. No relationship to any company that sells NMN. At least
182:47 to any company that sells NMN. At least the one I take is from they hate it when
182:49 the one I take is from they hate it when I do this, but from Renew by Science.
182:50 I do this, but from Renew by Science. It's the cheapest version. That's not
182:52 It's the cheapest version. That's not why I take I just like the powder put
182:53 why I take I just like the powder put under my tongue. I like the energy
182:54 under my tongue. I like the energy effect. I will say this and I've done
182:56 effect. I will say this and I've done the control experiment on myself and I
182:58 the control experiment on myself and I have family members who've done it too.
183:00 have family members who've done it too. It makes my hair grow crazy fast and my
183:03 It makes my hair grow crazy fast and my nails grow crazy fast. I know this
183:05 nails grow crazy fast. I know this because if I stop that that halts. Those
183:07 because if I stop that that halts. Those aren't really effects I'm looking for.
183:10 aren't really effects I'm looking for. And it worries me a little bit because
183:12 And it worries me a little bit because what else is it making grow crazy fast?
183:15 what else is it making grow crazy fast? Again, I don't think I have a tumor, but
183:16 Again, I don't think I have a tumor, but what else is it, you know, if I have
183:18 what else is it, you know, if I have like a polip or something, is it making
183:20 like a polip or something, is it making that grow crazy fast? I don't know.
183:21 that grow crazy fast? I don't know. >> I I asked that question to uh Dr.
183:24 >> I I asked that question to uh Dr. Charles Brener when I had him on podcast
183:25 Charles Brener when I had him on podcast because I there was a study on enema in
183:28 because I there was a study on enema in mice that they had the mice had tumors
183:31 mice that they had the mice had tumors and then they you know gave them I think
183:33 and then they you know gave them I think they injected them with enem or maybe it
183:35 they injected them with enem or maybe it was orage I don't remember which which
183:36 was orage I don't remember which which way it was but it accelerated the growth
183:38 way it was but it accelerated the growth of those rare type of pancreatic cancer
183:41 of those rare type of pancreatic cancer cells
183:41 cells >> and so I was you know obviously energy
183:44 >> and so I was you know obviously energy yes cancer cells love energy too right
183:46 yes cancer cells love energy too right >> doesn't like nmen and I will take NR
183:48 >> doesn't like nmen and I will take NR sometimes I do take true
183:49 sometimes I do take true >> n well it doesn't I mean either way so
183:51 >> n well it doesn't I mean either way so the same end point here we're increasing
183:53 the same end point here we're increasing NAD, right? So the question is then
183:56 NAD, right? So the question is then okay, well should I be worried about
183:57 okay, well should I be worried about cancer? And um he pointed me to some
184:01 cancer? And um he pointed me to some study out of Australia where I think it
184:03 study out of Australia where I think it was maybe it might have been
184:05 was maybe it might have been nicotenomide
184:06 nicotenomide that basically prevented um some kind of
184:09 that basically prevented um some kind of it wasn't melanoma but it was another
184:11 it wasn't melanoma but it was another type of of skin cancer
184:12 type of of skin cancer >> and so I was like okay well that seems
184:14 >> and so I was like okay well that seems sort of
184:15 sort of >> the point here I am experimenting with
184:17 >> the point here I am experimenting with it. Why? First of all, um I became
184:19 it. Why? First of all, um I became interested in it because the effects on
184:20 interested in it because the effects on mitochondrial health,
184:22 mitochondrial health, >> there was effects on fertility, um you
184:25 >> there was effects on fertility, um you know, energy recovery when I started it
184:27 know, energy recovery when I started it just, you know, and then again, you can
184:29 just, you know, and then again, you can find a couple of studies where like
184:30 find a couple of studies where like maybe you know, you're not as insulin
184:33 maybe you know, you're not as insulin sensitive and who knows like it's not
184:35 sensitive and who knows like it's not there's not enough data there. So, I
184:36 there's not enough data there. So, I would say cautiously experimenting with
184:38 would say cautiously experimenting with it.
184:39 it. >> But, um so far, I love it. I don't
184:41 >> But, um so far, I love it. I don't again, you never know what what's here.
184:43 again, you never know what what's here. So I um do take and they don't pay me. I
184:48 So I um do take and they don't pay me. I buy it. Um I do take true niogen um NR.
184:51 buy it. Um I do take true niogen um NR. That's what I take NR. And on the data
184:53 That's what I take NR. And on the data sheet they they include some human
184:54 sheet they they include some human studies. I have a family member I'll
184:56 studies. I have a family member I'll just say my sister takes it. She like
184:58 just say my sister takes it. She like loves it. She's convinced now that could
185:00 loves it. She's convinced now that could be placebo. But she is so convinced. She
185:03 be placebo. But she is so convinced. She texts me about it. I feel so much
185:04 texts me about it. I feel so much better. I have so much. I have no idea.
185:06 better. I have so much. I have no idea. She has no idea if it's placebo. But
185:08 She has no idea if it's placebo. But Brener is a very good scientist. I will
185:10 Brener is a very good scientist. I will say he's he's a he's what you know what
185:12 say he's he's a he's what you know what we call in our business you and me a
185:14 we call in our business you and me a serious scientist. I just don't think
185:16 serious scientist. I just don't think any of that's going to make me have a
185:18 any of that's going to make me have a direct effect on living longer. I don't
185:20 direct effect on living longer. I don't know that it is. I don't know that it's
185:22 know that it is. I don't know that it's the it's not one of my like if if I had
185:24 the it's not one of my like if if I had to like you know shrink down to my core
185:27 to like you know shrink down to my core supplements like it wouldn't be in there
185:29 supplements like it wouldn't be in there and you know there's many other things
185:30 and you know there's many other things that are important I think for
185:32 that are important I think for >> so if you were budget limited it
185:33 >> so if you were budget limited it wouldn't get above the above threshold
185:35 wouldn't get above the above threshold like if someone out there had like just
185:37 like if someone out there had like just uh like
185:39 uh like >> 100 bucks or 200 bucks to to spend on
185:41 >> 100 bucks or 200 bucks to to spend on supplements they which is a lot for a
185:43 supplements they which is a lot for a lot of people.
185:43 lot of people. >> I don't know that it's going to help you
185:44 >> I don't know that it's going to help you live longer either. Now, it might help
185:46 live longer either. Now, it might help with your exercise recovery a bit,
185:49 with your exercise recovery a bit, right? It might it might help improve
185:50 right? It might it might help improve mitochondrial function. I mean, maybe
185:52 mitochondrial function. I mean, maybe it's going to help with repleting some
185:54 it's going to help with repleting some of the NAD stores. I mean, if you can
185:56 of the NAD stores. I mean, if you can improve mitochondrial health and you
185:58 improve mitochondrial health and you know, you're improving things like
186:00 know, you're improving things like >> on a small scale, right? So,
186:02 >> on a small scale, right? So, >> mitochondrial health is at the core of
186:04 >> mitochondrial health is at the core of everything. So, that that's something to
186:06 everything. So, that that's something to consider. But, yeah, I'm not convinced
186:07 consider. But, yeah, I'm not convinced it's the end all be either, but I do
186:09 it's the end all be either, but I do take it
186:10 take it >> and it is something I'm experimenting
186:11 >> and it is something I'm experimenting with. I think it is seems to be safe and
186:13 with. I think it is seems to be safe and there's a lot of emerging data that got
186:14 there's a lot of emerging data that got caught my interest
186:16 caught my interest >> but um omega-3 is the top right like
186:19 >> but um omega-3 is the top right like that's that's there's nothing NAD that
186:21 that's that's there's nothing NAD that nicenide ribocide or NMN if you can find
186:23 nicenide ribocide or NMN if you can find a good source of it that's not
186:26 a good source of it that's not >> not comparable in my books
186:27 >> not comparable in my books >> have you experimented with um LC
186:30 >> have you experimented with um LC carnitine because of the mitochondrial
186:32 carnitine because of the mitochondrial effects because I was able to find some
186:34 effects because I was able to find some good studies on
186:35 good studies on >> sperm and egg quality on mito which are
186:37 >> sperm and egg quality on mito which are thought to be downstream of
186:39 thought to be downstream of mitochondrial health
186:41 mitochondrial health you you can improve mitochondrial
186:42 you you can improve mitochondrial health, fertility, which is why NR is
186:45 health, fertility, which is why NR is now involved with fertility. Seems to be
186:46 now involved with fertility. Seems to be improving fertility is right. If you can
186:48 improving fertility is right. If you can improve mitochondrial health, then
186:50 improve mitochondrial health, then you're going to improve fertility, sperm
186:52 you're going to improve fertility, sperm health, right? Egg health, right? Um,
186:54 health, right? Egg health, right? Um, yeah, Lcarnitine, a lot of those studies
186:56 yeah, Lcarnitine, a lot of those studies came out of my mentor's lab, Bruce.
186:57 came out of my mentor's lab, Bruce. Same. So, he was he looked at the
186:59 Same. So, he was he looked at the combination of Lcarnitine and alphalogic
187:01 combination of Lcarnitine and alphalogic acid improving mitochondrial health
187:02 acid improving mitochondrial health >> and came up with the supplement that
187:05 >> and came up with the supplement that it's called Juvenon now, but it's
187:07 it's called Juvenon now, but it's Lcarnitine with alpha lipoic acid.
187:09 Lcarnitine with alpha lipoic acid. >> It's a pill.
187:10 >> It's a pill. >> It's a supplement. Yeah. Yeah.
187:12 >> It's a supplement. Yeah. Yeah. >> And um so yes, I have experimented with
187:14 >> And um so yes, I have experimented with that and in fact my husband takes it but
187:17 that and in fact my husband takes it but I mean I
187:19 I mean I just can't take so many supplements.
187:21 just can't take so many supplements. >> Yeah. You know I was just curious we
187:23 >> Yeah. You know I was just curious we have our Yeah. But it is you know you
187:25 have our Yeah. But it is you know you can find you can find evidence that it
187:27 can find you can find evidence that it improves
187:28 improves >> uh mitochondrial health. So you know
187:30 >> uh mitochondrial health. So you know it's just a matter of again like what
187:33 it's just a matter of again like what what are what what are you looking for?
187:35 what are what what are you looking for? I I feel like I'm doing a lot of
187:37 I I feel like I'm doing a lot of high-intensity interval training too and
187:38 high-intensity interval training too and I'm taking the uriththna. That's a lot.
187:40 I'm taking the uriththna. That's a lot. You know, I'm doing a lot of stuff to
187:42 You know, I'm doing a lot of stuff to optimize mitochondrial health. I mean,
187:43 optimize mitochondrial health. I mean, at some at some point you have to like
187:45 at some at some point you have to like not you can't do everything there is.
187:47 not you can't do everything there is. >> Sure. No, of course not. And then it's
187:49 >> Sure. No, of course not. And then it's budget limited, too.
187:49 budget limited, too. >> And maybe, you know, maybe I should add
187:50 >> And maybe, you know, maybe I should add the lcarnitine in. I mean, it's
187:52 the lcarnitine in. I mean, it's possible, right?
187:53 possible, right? >> I started I I've started experimenting
187:55 >> I started I I've started experimenting with it, but I take it in an injectable
187:56 with it, but I take it in an injectable form.
187:57 form. >> Really?
187:58 >> Really? >> It's going to shock some people. You can
187:59 >> It's going to shock some people. You can get away with taking much lower
188:00 get away with taking much lower milligram count. Otherwise, you have to
188:02 milligram count. Otherwise, you have to take a lot of it because a lot of it
188:04 take a lot of it because a lot of it just isn't absorbed if you take it
188:05 just isn't absorbed if you take it orally. And then I was told that if you
188:07 orally. And then I was told that if you take it orally, you also have to do
188:08 take it orally, you also have to do something to offset the increase in in
188:10 something to offset the increase in in TMAO. And that worried me. So I figured
188:13 TMAO. And that worried me. So I figured needles don't scare me. I'll just inject
188:15 needles don't scare me. I'll just inject it.
188:16 it. >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The TMAO thing.
188:18 >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The TMAO thing. I mean, so not it depends on your gut
188:20 I mean, so not it depends on your gut bacteria, whether or not you're
188:21 bacteria, whether or not you're metabolizing the LC carnitine into TMAO.
188:23 metabolizing the LC carnitine into TMAO. There's actually a lot of complexity
188:25 There's actually a lot of complexity involved in that whole thing, but you
188:27 involved in that whole thing, but you can get your TMAO measured. So if you
188:28 can get your TMAO measured. So if you were supplementing with it, I mean the
188:30 were supplementing with it, I mean the same goes for choline, you know, like if
188:32 same goes for choline, you know, like if you're worried like choline can be
188:33 you're worried like choline can be converted into
188:34 converted into >> I'll take alpha GPC before a workout
188:36 >> I'll take alpha GPC before a workout sometimes or if I need to um if I ever
188:39 sometimes or if I need to um if I ever need to focus late in the day, I don't
188:41 need to focus late in the day, I don't want caffeine because it impedes my
188:42 want caffeine because it impedes my sleep, but I'll take alpha GPC because
188:44 sleep, but I'll take alpha GPC because this is kind of a cool effect.
188:45 this is kind of a cool effect. >> Alpha GPC actually will improve your REM
188:48 >> Alpha GPC actually will improve your REM sleep.
188:48 sleep. >> It's not a huge effect, but you'll
188:50 >> It's not a huge effect, but you'll notice you'll get more REM sleep. So
188:51 notice you'll get more REM sleep. So it's one of the few things I found that
188:52 it's one of the few things I found that can increase energy late in the day. do
188:55 can increase energy late in the day. do a workout or or work if I have to work
188:57 a workout or or work if I have to work later into the day. Still sleep just
188:59 later into the day. Still sleep just fine and actually sleep better.
189:00 fine and actually sleep better. >> What does work later into the day mean
189:02 >> What does work later into the day mean for you like working until like eight,
189:03 for you like working until like eight, nine o'clock or
189:04 nine o'clock or >> Yeah. Well, I do that um often, but but
189:07 >> Yeah. Well, I do that um often, but but I don't like to work out after 2:00 p.m.
189:10 I don't like to work out after 2:00 p.m. because I like caffeine before I work
189:13 because I like caffeine before I work out. So, but I'll I'll do some cardio in
189:14 out. So, but I'll I'll do some cardio in the afternoon or something. But if I
189:16 the afternoon or something. But if I really have to push push push or if I've
189:18 really have to push push push or if I've traveled and I really need exercise and
189:19 traveled and I really need exercise and I want to get a 600 p.m. workout, but I
189:21 I want to get a 600 p.m. workout, but I also want to fall asleep at 10:30, I'll
189:24 also want to fall asleep at 10:30, I'll take some alpha GPC.
189:25 take some alpha GPC. >> I used to take that like I don't know,
189:27 >> I used to take that like I don't know, it's been maybe like 10 years,
189:30 it's been maybe like 10 years, >> but um
189:31 >> but um >> it's interesting. I might try
189:32 >> it's interesting. I might try experimenting with that again. I'm
189:34 experimenting with that again. I'm always looking for things that I find a
189:35 always looking for things that I find a little bit safer. Like I don't do the
189:37 little bit safer. Like I don't do the nicotine as you know. Like
189:38 nicotine as you know. Like >> it is shocking how many young people are
189:40 >> it is shocking how many young people are taking nicotine.
189:41 taking nicotine. >> I know. I've never tried it.
189:43 >> I know. I've never tried it. >> First of all, it's highly addictive.
189:44 >> First of all, it's highly addictive. forget the blood pressure and the vasoc
189:45 forget the blood pressure and the vasoc constru that's all bad you know I think
189:47 constru that's all bad you know I think the the big issue is that if I take it
189:50 the the big issue is that if I take it um I start getting this spasming in my
189:52 um I start getting this spasming in my throat when I don't take it and that's
189:53 throat when I don't take it and that's because of it's I have a friend who
189:55 because of it's I have a friend who works on these pathways and it's because
189:56 works on these pathways and it's because of the activation of the muscerinic
189:58 of the activation of the muscerinic receptors so so on smooth muscle you
190:00 receptors so so on smooth muscle you start getting a tick and kind of
190:02 start getting a tick and kind of clearing of your throat and then you
190:03 clearing of your throat and then you take more nicotine you feel fine so I
190:05 take more nicotine you feel fine so I didn't want to become dependent on it
190:07 didn't want to become dependent on it >> and um I don't I don't like it I think I
190:10 >> and um I don't I don't like it I think I think it's a I think it's a bad habit
190:12 think it's a I think it's a bad habit that a lot of people are going to be
190:13 that a lot of people are going to be seeking to quit it later.
190:14 seeking to quit it later. >> A lot of young people,
190:16 >> A lot of young people, >> older people might benefit from it
190:17 >> older people might benefit from it because of the cognitive enhancement,
190:18 because of the cognitive enhancement, but that's a whole other story.
190:19 but that's a whole other story. >> Well, maybe the alpha GPC and the
190:21 >> Well, maybe the alpha GPC and the creatine and yeah,
190:22 creatine and yeah, >> um, magnesium L3.
190:24 >> um, magnesium L3. >> Yeah,
190:24 >> Yeah, >> alpha GPC is is very is very helpful for
190:26 >> alpha GPC is is very is very helpful for if you need to really lock in for a few
190:28 if you need to really lock in for a few hours and do something physically. I
190:30 hours and do something physically. I take 600 milligrams. You can take up to
190:32 take 600 milligrams. You can take up to 900, but I do just fine on 600. So, I
190:35 900, but I do just fine on 600. So, I think just take it in pure form and
190:37 think just take it in pure form and Okay.,
190:37 Okay., >> you know, a capsule. Yeah.
190:38 >> you know, a capsule. Yeah. >> Any of them out there that come from a
190:40 >> Any of them out there that come from a reputable brand is like going to work.
190:42 reputable brand is like going to work. What about like before a podcast or
190:43 What about like before a podcast or something like that? Does that does it
190:44 something like that? Does that does it have any effect or why?
190:45 have any effect or why? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It'll put you into you
190:47 >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It'll put you into you know I mean if you feel like you want to
190:49 know I mean if you feel like you want to be heightened focus but I rely on water,
190:52 be heightened focus but I rely on water, caffeine, electrolytes and good good
190:54 caffeine, electrolytes and good good sleep. There's this wild study we don't
190:56 sleep. There's this wild study we don't I don't want to take us too uh too far
190:58 I don't want to take us too uh too far off track here. Um but there's a study
191:00 off track here. Um but there's a study for out of WashU recently really really
191:02 for out of WashU recently really really uh talented uh researcher I want to
191:04 uh talented uh researcher I want to bring him on this podcast does brain
191:06 bring him on this podcast does brain imaging and he compared um essentially
191:09 imaging and he compared um essentially the effects of drugs for ADHD versus a
191:13 the effects of drugs for ADHD versus a good night's sleep and basically found
191:14 good night's sleep and basically found that there's no focus enhancement of
191:17 that there's no focus enhancement of aderall vivance rolin type drugs they
191:20 aderall vivance rolin type drugs they mainly looked at rolin all it's doing is
191:21 mainly looked at rolin all it's doing is increasing alertness to the level that
191:23 increasing alertness to the level that you would get after after a good night's
191:24 you would get after after a good night's sleep it may be that these drugs just
191:27 sleep it may be that these drugs just increase alertness which allows you to
191:29 increase alertness which allows you to dial in focus. But if you're sleeping
191:30 dial in focus. But if you're sleeping well and enough, you make up the gap.
191:33 well and enough, you make up the gap. And people with ADHD might just be
191:35 And people with ADHD might just be having some serious sleep defects,
191:37 having some serious sleep defects, >> right?
191:38 >> right? >> So, you know, it it it speaks to this
191:40 >> So, you know, it it it speaks to this thing like I don't know that there's a
191:42 thing like I don't know that there's a single drug that can actually increase
191:44 single drug that can actually increase cognition and focus. Most of them
191:46 cognition and focus. Most of them probably just get you in the plane of
191:47 probably just get you in the plane of alertness that allows you to dial in
191:49 alertness that allows you to dial in your focus. Some people be like, "That's
191:51 your focus. Some people be like, "That's BS. They take modafinyl." But this is
191:53 BS. They take modafinyl." But this is just another form of increasing
191:55 just another form of increasing alertness.
191:55 alertness. >> Well, reducing anxiety. I think things
191:58 >> Well, reducing anxiety. I think things that are anxolytic help with that as
192:00 that are anxolytic help with that as well. And I think I was talking about I
192:02 well. And I think I was talking about I don't know if I was telling you or
192:03 don't know if I was telling you or someone else before the podcast. One of
192:05 someone else before the podcast. One of the reasons why I also like that
192:06 the reasons why I also like that metabolic switch with the ketosis and
192:07 metabolic switch with the ketosis and the beta hydroxybutyrate. And sometimes
192:09 the beta hydroxybutyrate. And sometimes I'll take exogenous ketones too.
192:11 I'll take exogenous ketones too. >> Although if you take them in a fasted
192:13 >> Although if you take them in a fasted state, it kind of shuts down the
192:14 state, it kind of shuts down the lipolysis. But anyways, is because it
192:17 lipolysis. But anyways, is because it increases GABA.
192:18 increases GABA. >> The beta hydroxybate increases GABA. For
192:20 >> The beta hydroxybate increases GABA. For me, it's beneficial because I am the
192:23 me, it's beneficial because I am the phenotype where I like, you know, I can
192:25 phenotype where I like, you know, I can have other things going on in my mind
192:28 have other things going on in my mind that it's I don't want to it's not
192:29 that it's I don't want to it's not anxiety, but it's more of that anxious
192:31 anxiety, but it's more of that anxious phenotype, if that makes sense. And so,
192:33 phenotype, if that makes sense. And so, the the increase in GABA really does um
192:37 the the increase in GABA really does um help me with focus because it's quieting
192:39 help me with focus because it's quieting down. I think
192:40 down. I think >> I actually think that a lot of people
192:42 >> I actually think that a lot of people who are very intellectually engaged
192:44 who are very intellectually engaged which clearly you are over many many
192:46 which clearly you are over many many years and very physically active and
192:47 years and very physically active and healthy there's a lot of capacity there
192:50 healthy there's a lot of capacity there and unless there's something to really
192:51 and unless there's something to really absorb all that capacity you can get
192:53 absorb all that capacity you can get multiple tracks going and we sometimes
192:55 multiple tracks going and we sometimes think of that as anxiety or even AD some
192:58 think of that as anxiety or even AD some people will say it's ADHD I don't
193:00 people will say it's ADHD I don't necessarily think it's that but it's an
193:02 necessarily think it's that but it's an uncomfortable state to be in so pleasure
193:04 uncomfortable state to be in so pleasure to be like where all one's resources
193:07 to be like where all one's resources physical or cognitive or both are are
193:09 physical or cognitive or both are are harnessed It's a it's a very pleasant
193:11 harnessed It's a it's a very pleasant state. Earlier you were saying the GABA
193:13 state. Earlier you were saying the GABA increased from the ketosis.
193:14 increased from the ketosis. >> I think more and more we're just
193:16 >> I think more and more we're just realizing that people have differing
193:18 realizing that people have differing levels of excitatory to inhibitory
193:19 levels of excitatory to inhibitory balance in the brain. And so some people
193:21 balance in the brain. And so some people like things that bring GABA up, some
193:23 like things that bring GABA up, some people like things that bring glutamate
193:25 people like things that bring glutamate up, broadly speaking. And finding that
193:27 up, broadly speaking. And finding that sweet spot is where you go, oh, like I'm
193:30 sweet spot is where you go, oh, like I'm alert but calm,
193:31 alert but calm, >> right?
193:31 >> right? >> And that's what that's what
193:32 >> And that's what that's what >> that's what it does for me. Alert but
193:34 >> that's what it does for me. Alert but calm. Great. And for me, I'm like, and I
193:37 calm. Great. And for me, I'm like, and I noticed that there was a few years ago,
193:39 noticed that there was a few years ago, I really experimented with a ketogenic
193:41 I really experimented with a ketogenic diet. I just can't do that type of diet.
193:42 diet. I just can't do that type of diet. But I did experiment with it. And that
193:44 But I did experiment with it. And that was the one of the main things that I
193:45 was the one of the main things that I noticed is like I'm alert but calm. And
193:48 noticed is like I'm alert but calm. And it's like I liked it.
193:49 it's like I liked it. >> Well, then don't take nicotine because
193:51 >> Well, then don't take nicotine because the reason people like nicotine is it's
193:54 the reason people like nicotine is it's a stimulant that calms you down. So, I
193:56 a stimulant that calms you down. So, I do think that one of the reasons it's so
193:57 do think that one of the reasons it's so habit forming is because I know of
194:00 habit forming is because I know of nothing else that puts you in that plane
194:02 nothing else that puts you in that plane of focus of alert but calm. that is
194:05 of focus of alert but calm. that is reasonably low cost, that is legal. I've
194:08 reasonably low cost, that is legal. I've never I'll come clear I've never done
194:10 never I'll come clear I've never done amphetamine or cocaine, so I'm not I I
194:12 amphetamine or cocaine, so I'm not I I wouldn't want to. And clearly that's a
194:13 wouldn't want to. And clearly that's a path to destruction. So the reason so
194:16 path to destruction. So the reason so many young people are taking it is
194:18 many young people are taking it is because it gets them right in that plane
194:20 because it gets them right in that plane of alert but calm, but it has all these
194:22 of alert but calm, but it has all these negative effects that go with it.
194:24 negative effects that go with it. >> Yeah. And that's why I have stayed away
194:26 >> Yeah. And that's why I have stayed away from it because I know I probably love
194:27 from it because I know I probably love it.
194:28 it. >> I've asked some young folks who ask me
194:30 >> I've asked some young folks who ask me about nicotine, how many milligrams are
194:32 about nicotine, how many milligrams are you taking? They'll say nine milligrams.
194:33 you taking? They'll say nine milligrams. They'll say, "How many times per day?"
194:35 They'll say, "How many times per day?" They'll say, "Eight times per day." I'm
194:38 They'll say, "Eight times per day." I'm like, "Oh my god." Like, that's crazy.
194:40 like, "Oh my god." Like, that's crazy. >> But they didn't start there, do you?
194:41 >> But they didn't start there, do you? >> No, you just quickly get there.
194:42 >> No, you just quickly get there. >> You adapt.
194:43 >> You adapt. >> Yeah. So, I I
194:45 >> Yeah. So, I I >> you know, I I don't want to sound like
194:47 >> you know, I I don't want to sound like that Kromagin that's like, "Don't drink
194:48 that Kromagin that's like, "Don't drink and don't take nicotine and this kind of
194:50 and don't take nicotine and this kind of thing, but it's a it's a slippery slope,
194:52 thing, but it's a it's a slippery slope, >> right?" Yeah. I mean, there's if there's
194:54 >> right?" Yeah. I mean, there's if there's other things that you can do that maybe
194:56 other things that you can do that maybe it's not going to be as potent, but
194:58 it's not going to be as potent, but >> alpha GPC.
194:58 >> alpha GPC. >> Alpha GPC. I mean, for me, I like doing
195:00 >> Alpha GPC. I mean, for me, I like doing I like my my metabolic switch and and my
195:02 I like my my metabolic switch and and my ketones and
195:04 ketones and >> Well, I'd be curious to to hear how you
195:06 >> Well, I'd be curious to to hear how you feel on the alpha GPC.
195:07 feel on the alpha GPC. >> I remember liking it. I I don't know
195:09 >> I remember liking it. I I don't know why. I think I stopped taking it because
195:11 why. I think I stopped taking it because I got pregnant is probably what it was.
195:12 I got pregnant is probably what it was. And then I It's one of those things
195:14 And then I It's one of those things where you just
195:15 where you just >> Yeah.
195:15 >> Yeah. >> forget you go back to the basics and
195:18 >> forget you go back to the basics and then like the
195:18 then like the >> different experiment.
195:19 >> different experiment. >> Yeah.
195:20 >> Yeah. >> Before I came on here, I did put out a
195:22 >> Before I came on here, I did put out a call for some questions to the world.
195:25 call for some questions to the world. >> Okay. rapid fire Q&A from the land of X
195:30 >> Okay. rapid fire Q&A from the land of X and Instagram. Oh, this is this these
195:33 and Instagram. Oh, this is this these are the students of the class of your
195:35 are the students of the class of your class and this way I think about it.
195:37 class and this way I think about it. Actually, I wanted to ask about this.
195:38 Actually, I wanted to ask about this. So, I'm so grateful that this person
195:40 So, I'm so grateful that this person asked about nattokinise
195:42 asked about nattokinise for improving blood lipid profiles. Is
195:45 for improving blood lipid profiles. Is is it something you're interested in or
195:47 is it something you're interested in or have experimented with? It's not
195:49 have experimented with? It's not something that I've experimented with
195:51 something that I've experimented with and I've been more interested in natto
195:54 and I've been more interested in natto the nattokynese. I know some I I really
195:57 the nattokynese. I know some I I really would have to say I don't have enough
195:58 would have to say I don't have enough data to really have an opinion on it.
196:01 data to really have an opinion on it. >> Okay. Well, I don't have enough data to
196:03 >> Okay. Well, I don't have enough data to have an opinion on it, but I take it
196:04 have an opinion on it, but I take it anyway. A lot of questions about things
196:06 anyway. A lot of questions about things we already talked about. So, coal
196:08 we already talked about. So, coal plunge, um, etc. but an exceptional
196:12 plunge, um, etc. but an exceptional number of questions about microplastics
196:13 number of questions about microplastics and I know we touched into it but on a
196:16 and I know we touched into it but on a scale of 1 to 10 10 being like you're
196:18 scale of 1 to 10 10 being like you're really concerned how concerned are you
196:20 really concerned how concerned are you about microplastics for mental and
196:22 about microplastics for mental and physical health longevity just broadly
196:24 physical health longevity just broadly speaking
196:26 speaking >> I would say I am less concerned about
196:28 >> I would say I am less concerned about microplastics than I am about not
196:31 microplastics than I am about not getting the right nutrients and
196:33 getting the right nutrients and micronutrients from our from our foods
196:35 micronutrients from our from our foods because our body can
196:37 because our body can >> detoxify at least some of the chemicals
196:38 >> detoxify at least some of the chemicals associated with them microplastics
196:40 associated with them microplastics themselves. I mean, I guess it's not we
196:43 themselves. I mean, I guess it's not we don't really know what they're going to
196:45 don't really know what they're going to do long term, but I'm I'm concerned
196:47 do long term, but I'm I'm concerned enough to try to avoid uh to sorry,
196:50 enough to try to avoid uh to sorry, limit my exposure to them as much as
196:52 limit my exposure to them as much as possible.
196:52 possible. >> So, you don't drink out of plastic water
196:54 >> So, you don't drink out of plastic water bottles?
196:55 bottles? >> I mean, I try not to as much as
196:56 >> I mean, I try not to as much as possible. I mean, you know, I I
196:58 possible. I mean, you know, I I definitely sure
196:59 definitely sure >> have to at some points, but um I I try
197:01 >> have to at some points, but um I I try not to. Yes. And when I do, I just
197:03 not to. Yes. And when I do, I just realize it's the habit
197:05 realize it's the habit >> and you kind of have to let go. I mean,
197:06 >> and you kind of have to let go. I mean, I know some people that like don't drink
197:09 I know some people that like don't drink and like they like they're going to get
197:10 and like they like they're going to get their water from their food, their
197:11 their water from their food, their fruits while they're traveling. Pretty
197:13 fruits while they're traveling. Pretty extreme. That's
197:14 extreme. That's >> Yeah, but I think mental health is
197:16 >> Yeah, but I think mental health is important. So, I mean, it's like is the
197:18 important. So, I mean, it's like is the stress of avoiding the microplastics
197:21 stress of avoiding the microplastics worse than the actual little bit of
197:22 worse than the actual little bit of microplastics you're being exposed to.
197:24 microplastics you're being exposed to. It might be
197:25 It might be >> TSA is going to hate me, but I lost a
197:28 >> TSA is going to hate me, but I lost a bet two days ago to a member of our
197:30 bet two days ago to a member of our podcast team. He bet me, we bet that um
197:34 podcast team. He bet me, we bet that um I said one couldn't bring a Mountain
197:37 I said one couldn't bring a Mountain Valley Spring Water uh bottle through
197:40 Valley Spring Water uh bottle through security at the airport and he said that
197:42 security at the airport and he said that you absolutely can. And I said there's
197:44 you absolutely can. And I said there's no way. So I made him a bet and I lost.
197:46 no way. So I made him a bet and I lost. He brought it through.
197:47 He brought it through. >> Full of water.
197:48 >> Full of water. >> Full of water. You tell them it's for
197:50 >> Full of water. You tell them it's for medical reasons. You don't have to state
197:52 medical reasons. You don't have to state what they are. They open the cap. They
197:55 what they are. They open the cap. They take a sample out. They test it. So,
197:57 take a sample out. They test it. So, there's a time constraint and it's going
197:58 there's a time constraint and it's going to create more jobs for TSA. Um, uh,
198:03 to create more jobs for TSA. Um, uh, sorry, that was sort of a joke, sort of
198:04 sorry, that was sort of a joke, sort of not a joke. TSA has been, you know, in
198:07 not a joke. TSA has been, you know, in tricky circumstances lately. And he
198:09 tricky circumstances lately. And he showed up at the at the gate with it and
198:11 showed up at the at the gate with it and was like, "Here's your water." You
198:12 was like, "Here's your water." You absolutely can bring water through in
198:14 absolutely can bring water through in glass vessels or whatever vessel, but
198:16 glass vessels or whatever vessel, but they're going to test it and it helps if
198:18 they're going to test it and it helps if it's a commercial vessel. It's not like
198:20 it's a commercial vessel. It's not like your own glass water bottle. Can I pause
198:22 your own glass water bottle. Can I pause for a minute because you mentioned a
198:23 for a minute because you mentioned a specific brand which I also when I when
198:25 specific brand which I also when I when I
198:26 I >> I don't make money from
198:27 >> I don't make money from >> same I I I drink when I'm traveling
198:29 >> same I I I drink when I'm traveling that's that's the brand that I go to and
198:32 that's that's the brand that I go to and there are there was a study that came
198:33 there are there was a study that came out showing that there's actually a
198:35 out showing that there's actually a larger uh volume of microplastics in
198:39 larger uh volume of microplastics in within this study in from glass bottles
198:41 within this study in from glass bottles versus plastic bottles which was a very
198:44 versus plastic bottles which was a very shocking finding.
198:45 shocking finding. >> Um so there's more microplastic number
198:48 >> Um so there's more microplastic number coming from the the glass bottles. Turns
198:50 coming from the the glass bottles. Turns out, this was a study out of uh France.
198:52 out, this was a study out of uh France. There was a study out of France and also
198:54 There was a study out of France and also in the US. It's the paint on the lids.
198:56 in the US. It's the paint on the lids. You mentioned the lid. And so, it's the
198:58 You mentioned the lid. And so, it's the paint on the lid that's contaminating
199:00 paint on the lid that's contaminating getting contaminated in the bottling of
199:02 getting contaminated in the bottling of the the whole bottling of this, you
199:03 the the whole bottling of this, you know, water that is getting into the
199:06 know, water that is getting into the water. But I do want to mention that the
199:08 water. But I do want to mention that the size was was shown to be larger from the
199:11 size was was shown to be larger from the glass bottles versus the plastic. So,
199:13 glass bottles versus the plastic. So, the microplastic size was larger. And as
199:15 the microplastic size was larger. And as you probably know, larger microplastics
199:18 you probably know, larger microplastics are not well absorbed through the gut
199:20 are not well absorbed through the gut epithelial cells. So when you're, you
199:21 epithelial cells. So when you're, you know, taking them in in the gut, they're
199:24 know, taking them in in the gut, they're coming out, they're being excreted
199:26 coming out, they're being excreted through your your feces and um less
199:28 through your your feces and um less likely to be taken up into your gut and
199:30 likely to be taken up into your gut and then get into your body. And that's
199:31 then get into your body. And that's actually well known. And so I'm actually
199:33 actually well known. And so I'm actually more concerned about the size of
199:34 more concerned about the size of microplastics.
199:36 microplastics. >> Um and it wasn't like the huge orders of
199:38 >> Um and it wasn't like the huge orders of magnitude difference between the the
199:39 magnitude difference between the the water from glass versus the plastic. It
199:42 water from glass versus the plastic. It it's so counterintuitive. You think,
199:43 it's so counterintuitive. You think, wait, what? Why is it? So, it's it's the
199:45 wait, what? Why is it? So, it's it's the paint that's on the lids. But anyways, I
199:47 paint that's on the lids. But anyways, I just want to mention that I still drink
199:49 just want to mention that I still drink when I'm traveling. I still go for the
199:51 when I'm traveling. I still go for the glass, not the plastic because of the
199:53 glass, not the plastic because of the size of the microplastics. And knowing
199:55 size of the microplastics. And knowing because the size was much bigger um that
199:57 because the size was much bigger um that it's very I would say more data is going
200:00 it's very I would say more data is going to come out on this, but I would be
200:01 to come out on this, but I would be surprised if you're absorbing more of
200:03 surprised if you're absorbing more of the larger particles because it's known
200:04 the larger particles because it's known that you absorb the smaller ones.
200:06 that you absorb the smaller ones. >> Thank you for that. And if you want, you
200:08 >> Thank you for that. And if you want, you can now take your glass bottle through
200:11 can now take your glass bottle through security full seed oils. the dreaded
200:14 security full seed oils. the dreaded seed oil debate. Where do you land on
200:16 seed oil debate. Where do you land on this?
200:17 this? >> I try to avoid them. Um, mostly because
200:22 >> I try to avoid them. Um, mostly because one, if you're avoiding seed oils,
200:23 one, if you're avoiding seed oils, you're going to avoid a lot of the
200:24 you're going to avoid a lot of the processed packaged foods that they come
200:26 processed packaged foods that they come in, which I know are terrible for you.
200:28 in, which I know are terrible for you. Two, because I think that cooking them
200:32 Two, because I think that cooking them or heating them, I mean, is more of my
200:35 or heating them, I mean, is more of my concern because they are, you know,
200:37 concern because they are, you know, polyunsaturated fatty acids which are
200:39 polyunsaturated fatty acids which are very prone to oxidation. And when you're
200:41 very prone to oxidation. And when you're heating something that's prone to
200:42 heating something that's prone to oxidation, you're accelerating that
200:44 oxidation, you're accelerating that whole process. I don't want to consume
200:45 whole process. I don't want to consume oxidized lipids. I've seen I've looked
200:48 oxidized lipids. I've seen I've looked into that literature and the last time I
200:50 into that literature and the last time I looked into it was I think 2024.
200:53 looked into it was I think 2024. At that time, I was pretty convinced
200:55 At that time, I was pretty convinced that if you are heating and reheating,
200:59 that if you are heating and reheating, you know, oils like they do in fast
201:00 you know, oils like they do in fast food, for sure, you're increasing
201:01 food, for sure, you're increasing inflammatory markers. That's been shown.
201:03 inflammatory markers. That's been shown. And I think also when you're really
201:06 And I think also when you're really having a higher level of, you know,
201:08 having a higher level of, you know, omega sixs and stuff around, I'm not as
201:10 omega sixs and stuff around, I'm not as concerned because I'm getting a lot of
201:11 concerned because I'm getting a lot of omega-3, but it does also um increase
201:13 omega-3, but it does also um increase your vitamin E requirements as well
201:16 your vitamin E requirements as well because of the oxidation of these
201:18 because of the oxidation of these polyunsaturated fatty acids. So, do I
201:20 polyunsaturated fatty acids. So, do I think it's like like the worst ever? I
201:22 think it's like like the worst ever? I mean, you can find all this data out
201:23 mean, you can find all this data out there showing that, you know, if you
201:26 there showing that, you know, if you replace, you know, saturated fat with
201:28 replace, you know, saturated fat with some of these seed oils, there's
201:30 some of these seed oils, there's improvements in lipid profiles. But at
201:33 improvements in lipid profiles. But at the end of the day, the question is
201:36 the end of the day, the question is really what if like you had olive oil
201:39 really what if like you had olive oil instead or avocado oil and say, would it
201:41 instead or avocado oil and say, would it be even better?
201:42 be even better? >> I think possibly. So if you're really
201:43 >> I think possibly. So if you're really trying to go for the optimal I avoid
201:45 trying to go for the optimal I avoid them as much as I can for that reason.
201:48 them as much as I can for that reason. But I think there's a little bit more
201:49 But I think there's a little bit more hype when it comes to the seed oil.
201:51 hype when it comes to the seed oil. >> But if that makes sense, you know, I'm
201:53 >> But if that makes sense, you know, I'm kind of that's my that's my take.
201:55 kind of that's my that's my take. >> Makes sense to me. Um for what it's
201:57 >> Makes sense to me. Um for what it's worth, I stick to olive oil and small
202:00 worth, I stick to olive oil and small amounts of butter and that's because I
202:02 amounts of butter and that's because I also think seed oils taste terrible. How
202:05 also think seed oils taste terrible. How come no one talks about that? But
202:07 come no one talks about that? But anyway, and olive oil and butter are
202:08 anyway, and olive oil and butter are delicious. It's been so long since I've
202:10 delicious. It's been so long since I've actually like I mean
202:12 actually like I mean >> had the you know seed oil but yeah
202:15 >> had the you know seed oil but yeah >> you know and no one can convince me that
202:16 >> you know and no one can convince me that they don't taste bad to me. So then the
202:19 they don't taste bad to me. So then the debate just kind of falls away. How
202:21 debate just kind of falls away. How often are you doing the sauna nowadays
202:24 often are you doing the sauna nowadays and what is the top contour of that
202:25 and what is the top contour of that protocol look like?
202:27 protocol look like? >> So I've taken a little pause on the
202:29 >> So I've taken a little pause on the sauna right now but typically I'm doing
202:32 sauna right now but typically I'm doing I was doing it like I would say five
202:35 I was doing it like I would say five nights a week. And I say nights cuz I
202:37 nights a week. And I say nights cuz I was usually doing them in the night. And
202:40 was usually doing them in the night. And it was mixed a mixture between either
202:42 it was mixed a mixture between either getting in the sauna or hot tub. So I
202:46 getting in the sauna or hot tub. So I like I like getting in the hot tub, head
202:48 like I like getting in the hot tub, head out under the stars there with my
202:49 out under the stars there with my husband. It's like our time.
202:51 husband. It's like our time. >> Um so yeah, usually it's like 20 minutes
202:53 >> Um so yeah, usually it's like 20 minutes and temperature- wise, you know, I don't
202:55 and temperature- wise, you know, I don't go that hot. I honestly I'm like 180.
202:57 go that hot. I honestly I'm like 180. >> Five nights a week is great. Gosh, I
202:59 >> Five nights a week is great. Gosh, I need to get back on a five night a week
203:02 need to get back on a five night a week hot tub protocol.
203:03 hot tub protocol. >> I do like the hot tub especially. I
203:04 >> I do like the hot tub especially. I don't I know there's something about
203:05 don't I know there's something about being outside and I think now there's
203:07 being outside and I think now there's just there there's evidence that the
203:09 just there there's evidence that the benefits are really like the same. It's
203:11 benefits are really like the same. It's the deliberate heat exposure, right?
203:12 the deliberate heat exposure, right? You're getting that you're getting that
203:14 You're getting that you're getting that through the hot tub or through the
203:15 through the hot tub or through the sauna.
203:15 sauna. >> Creatine for kids like young kids like
203:17 >> Creatine for kids like young kids like younger than 16. Um any data andor ideas
203:21 younger than 16. Um any data andor ideas about this good or bad?
203:23 about this good or bad? >> Yeah. So there is data in the literature
203:24 >> Yeah. So there is data in the literature showing that if you give younger younger
203:26 showing that if you give younger younger children that are doing like for example
203:28 children that are doing like for example sports like soccer
203:30 sports like soccer it does seem to improve their agility
203:33 it does seem to improve their agility and it seems to be safe. I do give my
203:36 and it seems to be safe. I do give my son 2 and a half grams of creatine so a
203:40 son 2 and a half grams of creatine so a day.
203:40 day. >> Cool.
203:41 >> Cool. >> So that's how I feel.
203:43 >> So that's how I feel. >> There's no better uh indication of how
203:45 >> There's no better uh indication of how you of how one feels and what they're
203:47 you of how one feels and what they're willing to um deliberately give their
203:48 willing to um deliberately give their kids. I don't know where this stems from
203:51 kids. I don't know where this stems from and we can cut it if you want. This um
203:53 and we can cut it if you want. This um someone asked, "Why did you
203:55 someone asked, "Why did you single-handedly ruin bananas?"
203:56 single-handedly ruin bananas?" >> Oh,
203:57 >> Oh, >> for this person. Yes. Uh did did you
203:59 >> for this person. Yes. Uh did did you ruin bananas?
204:00 ruin bananas? >> So, I used to put bananas in my
204:01 >> So, I used to put bananas in my smoothies. And there's an there's an
204:04 smoothies. And there's an there's an enzyme that is produced in bananas that
204:06 enzyme that is produced in bananas that break down polyphenols, particularly
204:08 break down polyphenols, particularly ones that are found in blueberries. And
204:09 ones that are found in blueberries. And the reason I was getting my smoothies
204:11 the reason I was getting my smoothies was one for the greens, but two for the
204:12 was one for the greens, but two for the blueberries because the polyphenols have
204:14 blueberries because the polyphenols have been shown to improve cognition. Love
204:16 been shown to improve cognition. Love blueberries. So, um sorry, sorry. Don't
204:18 blueberries. So, um sorry, sorry. Don't mix the blueberry with the banana
204:20 mix the blueberry with the banana smoothie because it it has been shown to
204:22 smoothie because it it has been shown to decrease the the polyphenols which are
204:24 decrease the the polyphenols which are important.
204:24 important. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the alcohol industry
204:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the alcohol industry will come for me someday and the banana
204:29 will come for me someday and the banana industry will come for you and uh I
204:32 industry will come for you and uh I think we're safe for a while. Um
204:35 think we're safe for a while. Um should we ignore studies that have less
204:38 should we ignore studies that have less than x number of subjects? I think
204:41 than x number of subjects? I think that's a really good question. And like
204:42 that's a really good question. And like obviously it depends, but when we're
204:44 obviously it depends, but when we're talking about human studies, where's the
204:46 talking about human studies, where's the the line for small study versus large
204:49 the line for small study versus large meaningful study for you? Obviously, how
204:50 meaningful study for you? Obviously, how strongly it's powered, but how do you
204:52 strongly it's powered, but how do you think about that?
204:53 think about that? >> Well, I'll tell you when I was first
204:55 >> Well, I'll tell you when I was first looking at the sauna literature,
204:58 looking at the sauna literature, all the studies that I were looking at
204:59 all the studies that I were looking at were like N of 10 or smaller. And it's
205:03 were like N of 10 or smaller. And it's really the aggregate of those studies
205:05 really the aggregate of those studies and then looking at like animal data.
205:08 and then looking at like animal data. And then you start to, you know, you
205:10 And then you start to, you know, you start to look at observational data and
205:13 start to look at observational data and the totality of evidence and you put
205:14 the totality of evidence and you put together this picture. I don't think you
205:16 together this picture. I don't think you should ignore studies that are small. I
205:18 should ignore studies that are small. I think that it's part of the story. I
205:19 think that it's part of the story. I think we're getting a little too caught
205:21 think we're getting a little too caught up in it's got to be the randomized
205:22 up in it's got to be the randomized placebo control trial. It's got to have
205:24 placebo control trial. It's got to have lot lots of participants. And I mean
205:27 lot lots of participants. And I mean that's great if we have that data, but
205:28 that's great if we have that data, but we don't always have that data. And I
205:30 we don't always have that data. And I don't know that we will always have that
205:31 don't know that we will always have that data with everything that we're
205:33 data with everything that we're interested in in understanding, right?
205:35 interested in in understanding, right? So the way I look at it is if it's like
205:37 So the way I look at it is if it's like just one study with an N of 10. Okay,
205:40 just one study with an N of 10. Okay, interesting. Um like with the creatine,
205:42 interesting. Um like with the creatine, right? Like I mean these studies have
205:43 right? Like I mean these studies have been small sample sizes. Now there's
205:45 been small sample sizes. Now there's more than one,
205:46 more than one, >> but you know at the end of the day it's
205:48 >> but you know at the end of the day it's still very I would say in this, you
205:52 still very I would say in this, you know, pilot study phase, right? We have
205:54 know, pilot study phase, right? We have just small studies. So I I do not ignore
205:56 just small studies. So I I do not ignore them, but I also don't hedge all my bets
205:59 them, but I also don't hedge all my bets on them either. I do know that there
206:01 on them either. I do know that there were a lot of people that were
206:02 were a lot of people that were criticizing me on my sauna. I mean, back
206:04 criticizing me on my sauna. I mean, back in I, you know, 2014, published an
206:07 in I, you know, 2014, published an article on Tim Ferrris's blog, went on
206:09 article on Tim Ferrris's blog, went on Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about,
206:11 Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about, you know, the benefits of sauna and and
206:13 you know, the benefits of sauna and and I had people that were going, "Your
206:15 I had people that were going, "Your studies, your sample sizes are too
206:16 studies, your sample sizes are too small." And now we have so much data
206:18 small." And now we have so much data that have come out since then, really
206:19 that have come out since then, really kind of validating everything and and
206:21 kind of validating everything and and showing even more benefits. you kind of
206:24 showing even more benefits. you kind of have to look at the totality of evidence
206:26 have to look at the totality of evidence and and what is it you're what endpoints
206:27 and and what is it you're what endpoints are you looking at and how can you
206:29 are you looking at and how can you gather you know data from different
206:30 gather you know data from different sources whether it's clinical studies or
206:33 sources whether it's clinical studies or observational studies or animal studies
206:35 observational studies or animal studies and and try to come up with the bigger
206:37 and and try to come up with the bigger picture right but then also don't be too
206:39 picture right but then also don't be too confident in your statements
206:41 confident in your statements >> I'm very gratified to know that pretty
206:44 >> I'm very gratified to know that pretty much every other question you addressed
206:46 much every other question you addressed the answer to and route to where we are
206:48 the answer to and route to where we are now in the podcast truly and I'll leave
206:50 now in the podcast truly and I'll leave them up so you can see them later if you
206:52 them up so you can see them later if you choose
206:53 choose co-plunches uh notwithstanding um
206:57 co-plunches uh notwithstanding um vitamin D um exercise in all its contour
207:01 vitamin D um exercise in all its contour specificity fasting uh magnesium
207:05 specificity fasting uh magnesium lots of questions about supplements
207:06 lots of questions about supplements which we covered creatine lots of
207:08 which we covered creatine lots of questions about inflammation longevity
207:10 questions about inflammation longevity and so I just have to say first of all
207:13 and so I just have to say first of all on behalf of everybody thank you so much
207:15 on behalf of everybody thank you so much this was really an incredible tutorial
207:17 this was really an incredible tutorial and so much of it is actionable and as
207:20 and so much of it is actionable and as you are known for it was incred
207:22 you are known for it was incred incredibly thorough in terms of setting
207:24 incredibly thorough in terms of setting the context within mechanisms of what we
207:27 the context within mechanisms of what we know, what we still don't know. And uh I
207:30 know, what we still don't know. And uh I also personally want to thank you
207:31 also personally want to thank you because when you speak, I learn. And
207:33 because when you speak, I learn. And when you speak, I also learn things that
207:35 when you speak, I also learn things that change my behavior. And that's a a whole
207:37 change my behavior. And that's a a whole other level. Uh since our last
207:39 other level. Uh since our last conversation, I can think of at least
207:41 conversation, I can think of at least four and probably as many as a dozen
207:43 four and probably as many as a dozen things that I do on a daily basis as a
207:45 things that I do on a daily basis as a consequence of that conversation. and
207:47 consequence of that conversation. and just the gut inflammation health brain
207:52 just the gut inflammation health brain body axis uh conversation that we had
207:55 body axis uh conversation that we had earlier. I'm going to listen to this
207:56 earlier. I'm going to listen to this again and take notes because um there's
207:58 again and take notes because um there's just so much there uh and the metabolic
208:02 just so much there uh and the metabolic flexibility thing as an input that can
208:04 flexibility thing as an input that can come from multiple sources on and on.
208:06 come from multiple sources on and on. So, thank you for doing what you do.
208:08 So, thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for being you, for being first
208:10 Thank you for being you, for being first in and still going and doing things with
208:11 in and still going and doing things with such rigor and and really so much grace.
208:14 such rigor and and really so much grace. It's it's just awesome. People love you.
208:16 It's it's just awesome. People love you. Um, I certainly do and appreciate you
208:19 Um, I certainly do and appreciate you and and it's just um it it's a wonderful
208:22 and and it's just um it it's a wonderful thing for me to have a colleague like
208:23 thing for me to have a colleague like you and you really set the standard. So,
208:25 you and you really set the standard. So, thank you so much for coming here and
208:27 thank you so much for coming here and doing this marathon and uh can't wait to
208:30 doing this marathon and uh can't wait to do it again.
208:31 do it again. >> Thank you so much, Andrew. It's it's
208:33 >> Thank you so much, Andrew. It's it's really been great. I learned so much
208:34 really been great. I learned so much from you as well and appreciate
208:36 from you as well and appreciate everything.
208:36 everything. >> Thank you. Thank you for joining me for
208:38 >> Thank you. Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda
208:40 today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. To learn more about her work,
208:41 Patrick. To learn more about her work, please see the links in the show not
208:43 please see the links in the show not captions. If you're learning from and or
208:45 captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe
208:47 enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a
208:48 to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zerocost way to support us. In
208:50 terrific zerocost way to support us. In addition, please follow the podcast by
208:52 addition, please follow the podcast by clicking the follow button on both
208:54 clicking the follow button on both Spotify and Apple. And on both Spotify
208:56 Spotify and Apple. And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a
208:58 and Apple, you can leave us up to a fivestar review. And you can now leave
209:00 fivestar review. And you can now leave us comments at both Spotify and Apple.
209:02 us comments at both Spotify and Apple. Please also check out the sponsors
209:04 Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and
209:05 mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode. That's the
209:06 throughout today's episode. That's the best way to support this podcast. If you
209:09 best way to support this podcast. If you have questions for me or comments about
209:10 have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that
209:12 the podcast or guests or topics that you'd like me to consider for the
209:14 you'd like me to consider for the Hubberman Lab podcast, please put those
209:16 Hubberman Lab podcast, please put those in the comment section on YouTube. I do
209:18 in the comment section on YouTube. I do read all the comments. For those of you
209:19 read all the comments. For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book
209:21 that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out. It's my very first book.
209:23 coming out. It's my very first book. It's entitled Protocols, an operating
209:25 It's entitled Protocols, an operating manual for the human body. This is a
209:27 manual for the human body. This is a book that I've been working on for more
209:28 book that I've been working on for more than 5 years, and that's based on more
209:30 than 5 years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and
209:32 than 30 years of research and experience. And it covers protocols for
209:34 experience. And it covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to
209:37 everything from sleep to exercise to stress control protocols related to
209:39 stress control protocols related to focus and motivation. And of course, I
209:42 focus and motivation. And of course, I provide the scientific substantiation
209:44 provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included. The
209:46 for the protocols that are included. The book is now available by pre-sale at
209:48 book is now available by pre-sale at protocolsbook.com.
209:50 protocolsbook.com. There you can find links to various
209:52 There you can find links to various vendors. You can pick the one that you
209:53 vendors. You can pick the one that you like best. Again, the book is called
209:55 like best. Again, the book is called Protocols, an operating manual for the
209:58 Protocols, an operating manual for the human body. And if you're not already
209:59 human body. And if you're not already following me on social media, I am
210:01 following me on social media, I am Huberman Lab on all social media
210:03 Huberman Lab on all social media platforms. So that's Instagram, X,
210:05 platforms. So that's Instagram, X, Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And on
210:08 Threads, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And on all those platforms, I discuss science
210:09 all those platforms, I discuss science and science related tools, some of which
210:11 and science related tools, some of which overlaps with the content of the
210:12 overlaps with the content of the Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which
210:14 Huberman Lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the information on the
210:16 is distinct from the information on the Huberman Lab podcast. Again, it's
210:18 Huberman Lab podcast. Again, it's Hubberman Lab on all social media
210:20 Hubberman Lab on all social media platforms. And if you haven't already
210:22 platforms. And if you haven't already subscribed to our neural network
210:23 subscribed to our neural network newsletter, the neural network
210:24 newsletter, the neural network newsletter is a zerorost monthly
210:26 newsletter is a zerorost monthly newsletter that includes podcast
210:28 newsletter that includes podcast summaries as well as what we call
210:29 summaries as well as what we call protocols in the form of one to
210:31 protocols in the form of one to three-page PDFs that cover everything
210:33 three-page PDFs that cover everything from how to optimize your sleep, how to
210:35 from how to optimize your sleep, how to optimize dopamine, deliberate cold
210:37 optimize dopamine, deliberate cold exposure. We have a foundational fitness
210:39 exposure. We have a foundational fitness protocol that covers cardiovascular
210:41 protocol that covers cardiovascular training and resistance training. All of
210:43 training and resistance training. All of that is available completely zero cost.
210:45 that is available completely zero cost. You simply go to hubmanlab.com, go to
210:47 You simply go to hubmanlab.com, go to the menu tab in the top right corner,
210:48 the menu tab in the top right corner, scroll down to newsletter, and enter
210:50 scroll down to newsletter, and enter your email. And I should emphasize that
210:52 your email. And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody.
210:54 we do not share your email with anybody. Thank you once again for joining me for
210:56 Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda
210:58 today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. And last, but certainly not
211:00 Patrick. And last, but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in
211:02 least, thank you for your interest in science.
