The core theme of this content is that charisma and effective communication are learnable skills, not innate talents, and can be developed by understanding and mastering "cues" in body language, vocal tone, and word choice.
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your brain is 12.5 times more likely to
believe my gesture over my words and
that's because it is very hard to lie
with our gestures for example you want
to do little experiment with me sure
okay I want you to say five but hold up
the number three five hard right yeah I
had to think about them separately this
is why Liars use less gestures but no
tool like that is critical if you're
trying to set yourself up for success
and we're going to go through all of
them oh yeah Vanessa van Edwards is a
behavioral investigator who science back
research from body language and micro
Expressions to vocal tones and first
Impressions has revolutionized the way
we build confidence and create more
authentic relationships in every social
and professional interaction I'm a
recovering awkward person and I thought
that Charisma was genetic and I didn't
know how to have conversations I didn't
even know how to have friends then I
discovered that highly successful people
speak a hidden language and that is the
language of cu's this directly from the
research they know that blueprints will
talk to anyone they know that if you sit
within 25 ft of a high performer your
own performance improves by 15% and that
there's a direct correlation between
confidence and anxiety and the distance
p shoulder and our ear Lo so interesting
they also know that 82% of our
impressions of people are based on
warmth and competence so if you worry
that people don't take you seriously you
have trouble getting raises you feel
anxious and overwhelmed I have five
power cues for competence but if you
have ever been told you're intimidated
hard to talk to I want you to use these
five warmth cues
first what about how to get a partner in
terms of cues and body language let's
start with a study that blew my mind
it's impossible to be attracted to
someone who that's so crazy just such a
small little
thing this has always blown my mind a
little bit 53% of you that listen to the
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much [Music]
[Music]
much Vanessa van
Edwards for someone that's just clicked
on this conversation now and they're
wondering why they should stay and
listen to what we're going to talk about
what would you say to
them very highly successful people speak
a hidden language and that is the
language of cu's if you don't know how
to read the cues people are sending to
you if you don't know how to control the
cues you're sending to others you are
missing a crucial element of success
how do you quantify that in a way that I
know that it's true are there studies or
stats that reinforce what you've just
said 82% of our impressions of people
are based on warmth and
competence that means that if we can
control our warmth cues and our
competence cues we know we are taking
care of 82% of our impression and that
is critical to being more memorable to
being more confident having clearer
communication and taking that a bit
further what areas of my life will that
as impact so if I'm warm and I'm
competent which you're telling me are
things that I can control what are the
downstream consequences of that so I
think my mission is to tackle a big lie
and that is that smart people will
translate their book smarts into people
smarts but actually you're no matter how
smart you are if you do not know how to
communicate with people you can't
connect with people you can't have good
relationships you can't have supportive
friendships you get looped into
difficult people or toxic people you
have trouble getting raises or
promotions when you are able to control
your communication it helps you not be
overlooked not be misunderstood and that
affects your friendships your partner
your career and also helps you feel more
confident walking into a room and what
is your research based on are you a
researcher have you done sort of
first-party research yourself where were
you drawing from so I'm a recovering
awkward person so I used to believe that
you were either born with Charisma or
you weren't that Charisma was genetic
and in 2002 I discovered a study that
changed my life which said that Charisma
can be
learned this is when I started to tackle
to figure out okay if Charisma can be
learned how do we learn it how can we
learn blueprints for conversation how
can we learn Frameworks for how we
connect and how we socialize that's when
I started doing my own research so I'm a
behavioral researcher and a bestselling
author on communication and I specialize
and helping very brilliant very smart
awkward folks not be overlooked and give
me some sort of depth as to the amount
of research and the quantity of research
that you've done how many people you
studied how many hours of footage Etc
yep so I uh developed my first framework
about 12 years ago and we've helped
400,000 students learn that framework
Master it and Conquer awkwardness or
feel more confident some of those folks
had very professional goals like getting
raised or promotion other folks were so
socially an anxious and so awkward they
couldn't make friends other people were
looking for their soulmate or their
partner and so 400,000 students have
told me that this framework Works nobody
teaches us this stuff
today or actually extroverts tend to
teach it so I read the quintessential
How to Win Friends and Influence People
back in the day and that's a wonderful
book but it's a book written by an
extrovert if you are not naturally
extroverted I'm not naturally
extroverted I'm more Amber verted it is
very hard to learn how to communicate if
you don't naturally gravitate towards
people I was like there has to be a way
to teach introverts and Everts to be
able to feel confident without having to
fake it till you make it
without having to pretend to be
extroverted or outgoing to be taken
seriously or to be
charismatic what's an Ambert so Amber
verts get energy from the right people
in the right places so for example in
this interview I love one-on-one
conversations I feel myself but if we
were to go to a loud bar or a nightclub
I would completely shut down and want to
be alone Amber verts can dial up
extroversion to hit their goals so if
they know they have to be friendly and
meet people for an interview or a
position they can do it but they need
lots of recharge time the reason why
it's important to know if you're an
Amber vert is because you should know
what are the people and places that
drain you there are certain people when
you open your calendar and you look at
it and you're like oh I have to be with
that person that is someone that drains
you they do not bring out your
extroversion or your natural love of
people there are also certain people who
you feel you could talk to for hours
they give you social energy they charge
your social battery so the very first
thing I have students do is sit and make
a list who are the people who give you
energy who charge you up who are the
people who take from you those are
people that we want to put boundaries
around we want to say no to we want to
limit as much as possible and then also
the places where do you thrive is it
conferences one-on-one business or is it
friends socializing parties knowing
those places helps you optimize your
social battery and when you say cues
which you said at the start of this
conversation people think of just body
language is that the sort of full extent
of areas that you focus on yes so there
so there cues come into four different
channels there is body language that's
facial expressions gestures posture but
there's also vocal so vocal cues are the
tone of our voice our Pace our volume
our Cadence there's also the words we
use obviously verbal cues the types of
words that I'm choosing to use are
signaling my warmth and competence to
you and the last the smallest channel is
our ornaments the colors we wear the
jewelry we wear the way we wear our hair
way we wear your facial hair those are
also signaling different things or
queuing people to feel a certain way
about you and what about what we say mhm
because I know you're writing a book
about I don't know if I can leak this
but here we go yeah can you're writing a
book about conversation so what we say
so I did not realize how powerful our
words are and here's a study that really
changed the way I think about this very
simple study they brought people into
the lab and they sold them up into two
different groups in one group they said
today you're going to play the community
game and they played kind of a prisoners
dilemma type of game the second group
they came into the same room the same
researcher they said good morning today
you're going to play the Wall Street
game the trick was the games were
exactly the same there was no difference
between the two games what they found
was everyone who was told they were
playing the Wall Street game shared an
average of one-third of their profits
everyone who was told they were playing
the community game shared an average of
two-thirds of their profits this means
that that one word Community game
Community made people think and feel
more about community and made them act
more collaboratively this means means
that the words we're using in our emails
our subjects our texts our LinkedIn
profile headlines are queuing people for
how they should treat us one really
simple way to think about this is your
calendar I send out calendar invites
multiple times a week to clients to
friends when we have meeting one-on-one
call video interview I'm being queed for
nothing those words are so overused
they're sterile if you add cues that
Prime people to feel or think a certain
way you're actually setting them up for
Success so 2025 wins collaborative
session strategy meeting goal meeting
goal overview teamwork collab session
those words are actually queuing that
person's brain every single time they
open their calendar that when we read
the a word like collaborate we are
literally more likely to be
collaborative so the words that we use
even one single word can actually change
the way people
think it's funny because our entire
lives are people like the difference
between me being a president prime
minister superb salesperson exceptional
entrepreneur is probably just my
understanding of other people and how I
show up in my words and my cues and so
when you think about it like that this
could be for many people the most
important subject for them to improve
upon I would even go further and say if
you don't have people skills you cannot
succeed you cannot succeed in life you
cannot succeed in love you cannot
succeed in business it doesn't matter
how smart you are you need people to
have success so this is I think the most
fundamental skill that people can invest
in and how many people did you say
you've taught people skills to 400,000
students and is there a particular case
study that you stands out to you as
being the most extreme in terms of case
studying the fact that someone can go
from zero to a wonderful place yes and
it's my very brilliant but stoic
students so I've noticed especially over
the last 10 years I've been been doing
this for about 17 years in the last 10
years especially my most extreme
students are the students who are very
very smart very talented and good at
what they do but they don't know what
cues to send and so they completely shut
down they try to become stoic unreadable
they try to have no facial expressions
they literally try to poke her face all
the time and as they try to make
connections made a partner make friends
people don't like them people don't
trust them they can't get bu to their
ideas and those are the students where I
see the biggest transformation they
don't realize that muting muting your
cu's is a danger zone que if you try to
be stoic and unreadable people literally
cannot get a read on you and so my
biggest Transformations have happened
when I can say you don't need to hide
your true feelings it's about amplifying
them with the right cues there's a
famous example of this uh Jamie simonoff
founder of ring so I don't know if you
ever watch Shark Tank yeah so in this
episode for those who haven't seen it
Jamie simoff entered the tank and
pitched a billion doll idea literally a
billion dollar idea because it went on
to raise funding from Sha and Richard
Branson but in the tank he pitches the
idea and he gets so much push back and
so much negotiation and he walks out of
the tank without a deal in fact the
Sharks did not like him what happened he
had the billion billion dollar idea but
he did not know how to share it this is
the biggest transformation I see is
people who have brilliant ideas they're
good people they're hardworking people
and they cannot get byy in they cannot
make friends they cannot find partners
how do they feel so if you had to say
words that make them feel seen right now
how are they feeling as they're
listening to this
overwhelmed getting into interaction
just social overthinking not knowing
what to do not knowing what to feel
underestimated like people don't see you
or the real potential that you have a
lack of confidence and fear afraid that
if you are your true self or you try any
of the things we're talking about people
won't like you and I want to teach you
that you can be yourself and you can be
liked and you can find your people and
that doesn't mean everyone's going to
like you but it means if you signal the
right things cues tell others how to
treat you if you signal the right cues
you will find your people one of the
things that I was sort of inferring from
what you said is the importance of
understanding your resting face
that's like the term we use in the UK
resting face which is like when
you're just listening or doing nothing
like how does your face look yes and
you're telling me that's really really
important it's real so I call it resting
bothered face
resting father face RBF same thing okay
this is a real phenomenon which is that
all of us have different faces at rest
now I want you to look at my face for a
second my face at rest I'm I'm going to
rest it for a second my mouth angles
down and sort of an upside on you so it
looks like this you see how these are
going down
yeah are you laughing at my you a little
bit okay so at rest I look a little sad
yeah that is just my mouth at rest yours
goes pretty straight across I just I
just you have a lot of hood that's what
that's called a lot of hood this is Hood
yes yes so that probably makes you do
people think you're angry or tired both
both okay people never call me angry
they call me sad you need to look in the
mirror and figure out what is the
default of your face if you're mouth
angles down into a frown people are
going to think you're sad you're going
to have to be counteracting that with
your cues if you have a lot of hood
above your eyes or you have these two
vertical lines that appear between your
eyebrows you actually don't have them
but if some of people at rest even had
those two lines people are going to
think you're angry or frustrated if you
have down eyes so I don't know if you
noticed but my I have cat I've added Cat
makeup to my eye ah yes yes that
actually makes me look less less sad
because also my eyes slope a little bit
down at the end which makes me look sad
okay so people often are like are you
okay are you tired I'm like no that's
just my face so I have ways that I
counteract it one I get to use makeup
which is a a great thing but second I
know that I need to make my face a
little bit more up right so when I am in
ING with someone when I'm on video when
I'm interview I typically rest my face
in an upward position I've activated
these muscles so don't I look happier
you do but you have have you got to
consciously tell yourself to do that or
do you just always remember no I have to
consciously tell myself to do that now I
only need to do that with people with a
first impression or when I'm trying to
make a good impression my team knows
that I'm not sad right like my team they
see me all the time they see without
makeup they know that I'm not sad they
know that's just my face so here's
what's critical one you should know what
is your resting default are you looking
sad angry or afraid I afraid I didn't do
so if you have um you actually have some
I'm so sorry oh you're I'm so sorry I'm
so sorry you have these lines some in
the one of my team just left in the back
so you have them just right here these
light lines here so um when we're afraid
we go and we raise our eyebrows up and
our you can't see it because I have
Botox on my forehead but um if you yeah
there you go there you go that's no no
open your eyes and go that's afraid so
the more you have those lines and the
whites of your eyes appear like have you
ever seen someone kind of walk around
like a deer in the headlights yeah they
make you feel anxious like if I were to
do my entire interview a little bit
wide-eyed you would not only feel
anxious but you wouldn't believe what I
was saying so you all should see if you
have this default lines or if the whites
of your eyes show look at your profile
pictures in your profile pictures here
are the three biggest mistakes you will
make one they're showing for your eyes
yeah yeah so people you are signaling
accidentally anxiety so try to make sure
you're not showing the upper whites
second mistake you will do is they make
a contempt micro expression so that's
one-sided mouth raise so just do a
one-sided mouth raise for me does it
make you kind of feel like better don't
do it for too long so if you do it at
home you'll there's a facial feedback
hypothesis when you make these faces it
actually triggers the emotion just like
when you have the emotion it triggers
the face there's a loop that happens so
if people make the contempt expression
one said in mouth rais not only do they
look scornful kind of disdained they
actually begin to feel better then and
scornful so do not do an asymmetrical
smile in your profile picture you are
accidentally signaling NE negativity the
third biggest mistake you will make is
they uh you do an inauthentic smile in
their picture the only true indicator of
Happiness is when these cheek muscles
are activated anyone can fake smile this
like but you see people do it right yeah
I do it yeah and people know I would
rather you not no CU I I just don't have
a good smile what look like what I am I
going to say no it's it's horrible is do
you know I don't have your smile I
literally have to do this when I take
facez that's my smile I can't do the te
thing I try to what am I going to do
well you can smile without your teeth as
long as it hits your upper cheek muscle
so try just try this for me put your uh
pen or your finger in between your mouth
like this and smile as high as you can
go oh that's better that reaches all the
way up into your eyes do you see oh no
not that looks so much better okay if
you can activate these muscles in your
profile picture you don't have to walk
around like that but if you can act not
the fear not the fear just here just
here if you can activate these muscles
in your profile picture it shows
authentic happiness or don't smile at
all I hate the
advice just smile more fake Smiles do
not work Dr Barbara wild studied this
she took pictures of people thinking of
something they were authentically happy
about took a picture of them smiling
then she told them to fake smile and
took a picture of them on the surface
you really couldn't tell the difference
between the two smiles they looked very
similar but she had participants take
mood tests then look at the picture look
at one picture or the other group a
group b people who saw the positive
picture had an improved mood they caught
the happiness from the photo people who
looked at the fake smile had no mood
change this means I would rather you
have no smile at all or be neutral than
fake smile but if you can smile in your
picture it is so great for authentic
happiness it sounds like it might be
quite exhausting for some people because
I think some people although they
they're happy they feel good they're
nice people
they do have that resting bothered face
I think you called it and there's other
people that I know that just kind of
walk through life with this like resting
smile yeah like we can all think of that
person that's just like always happy
yeah and then there's these other people
who are like objectively happy too but
they just have that resting bed face so
it feels like life is going to be more
exhausting for those people you know I
think it's about choosing your heart
right it is hard it is exhausting for me
to show up to a meeting when I'm in a
good mood and have someone be like are
you sad and tired are you okay I'm like
I'm fine I find that exhausting is it
also a little exhausting to make sure
that in my first impression I'm being a
little bit more up with my face open
eyes wide and open mouth a little less
exhausting than that so I think you have
to choose what are the cues you're going
to purposefully add there are 97 cues
I've narrow down 97 that I think are the
most important you get to make your own
recipe you don't have to do all the cues
if smiling is not your thing smiling is
not essential for being charismatic when
we talk about being charismatic it's
about being warm and competent
and you have 97 cues to choose from to
make that warmth and competence recipe
and so you don't have to be a bubbly
extrovert to be charismatic you can be a
quiet powerful introvert you can be a
compassionate empathetic healer those
look different and so I think it's less
exhausting to find your recipe and to
use those cues a lot like there are
certain cues in my book that I teach
that I don't use they just don't feel
natural to me but there are other cues
where I'm like I really like this has
anyone ever done any really compelling
studies on this idea of resting
face or resting bothered face as you
call it there is research on resting
bothered face and there are certain
people who when people see pictures of
their face at rest they assume a mood
change in other words when there are
certain people at rest where you look at
them they look neutral but there are
certain a certain percent of the
population when you look at them they
look angry sad or afraid so it's real
people you look at and they look happy
and make you happy very few people have
happy resting face though you either
look neutral or bothered so you said you
were a recovering awkward person yes
take me into what you were like oh and
what do you mean when you say awkward
person I really wanted to go it alone I
was really overwhelmed by people and
interactions I didn't know what to do
with my hands I didn't know what to say
I felt like I missed a memo that
everyone got on
conversation I always felt like I was
saying the wrong things I had all these
awkward silences and then what would
happen is I would try to overcompensate
by sharing a ridiculous story or talking
too much or completely shutting down and
I kind of like wavered between
completely shutting down and being
overwhelmed and talking too much and
saying too much and just verbal vomiting
all over everyone and so I shut down and
in college especially I just felt so
left out I just felt so lonely and I
don't know if anyone watching is feeling
lonely I thought it was all my fault I
was like I miss the memo I don't know
how to have conversations I don't even
know how to have friends that's what it
felt like that I desperately wanted to
make connections but I had no idea how
to level up a new person to a
friendship I had no idea how that path
happened I had no idea how to have a
conversation with someone share
something real and then have a real
interaction back and so it was really
lonely and
overwhelming and what was the cist for
you to go on this journey I was in
college and there was a group paper
assigned and you had like five people
and everyone had to do five pages and I
went to the professor and I said I will
write double the amount of pages if I
can work by
myself and he was like Vanessa the point
of the paper is not the paper it's
working with the people and I was like
and I started to cry in his office I was
like that student I was like I I don't
know how and he was like Vanessa you're
very good at science you're very good at
breaking things down what if you studied
for people like you study for
chemistry that was like an aam for me he
said why don't you study good
conversation why don't you study the
popular kids why don't you look at what
are they doing in conversation that's
working study it like it's a science
hence my brand was called science of
people that's when I realized okay it
didn't come naturally to me but maybe
there's research on actual things I can
do with my body things I can do I can
say verbally questions that work that
will help me learn this the other way
turning soft skills into hard skills
that's when I started creating my first
conversational blueprints that's when I
started creating my conversation formula
it and it started to work IED started to
try out these kind of tiny experiments
and I actually started to feel like
myself make more friends it was tools I
had to use tools to be able to connect
because it did not come naturally to me
was it fixed from day one no so it was a
journey it was a real journey yeah I
think that's important because often
people think you know read the book get
the tips and tricks and you're you're
changed and you're fixed you talk about
I think later in your life where you
enter a dinner party and your husband uh
was there with you and you went home and
told him that you thought everyone was
angry at you yeah when was that that was
probably maybe four or five years later
okay so I started mostly with
conversation that was sort of my my
first tool I needed was questions I
wanted to ask first impressions and how
to close conversation very practically I
also realized about five years later my
I married my college sweetheart so I've
been with my husband for a long time and
he said to me you always think
everyone's angry at you I was like isn't
everyone angry at me
and I realized there are certain people
who misinterpret neutral facial
expressions as negative I have this
problem so I will see a neutral
expression on someone and assume they
are angry or afraid or stressed or don't
like me and that was creating this
really bad Loop because when you think
someone doesn't like you you shut down
and become more unlikable there was a
study I discovered right around this
time um this is done by uh Dr Van Sloan
he wanted to know what makes popular
kids popular very clever study he
studied thousands of high school
students across a variety of high
schools looking for patterns why is it
that some kids across these grades and
ages are really popular he had all the
kids ranked across all these schools he
had them looked at traits and then he
guessed what made the popular kids
popular were they more athletic were
they more attractive were they funnier
were they smarter what was it can you
was uh I'm so I'm just basing this on
the kids that were popular in my school
um they were funnier they were
self-deprecating to some degree they
were good at they were remotely good at
some sports maybe um they were funny
happy I don't know what so he found that
the most popular kids AC the one single
variable that was hold held true across
all the different students was the most
popular kids had the longest list of
people they liked so when he asked one
of the the questions of the survey was
who do you like they had the longest
lists and when he looked at their
day-to-day they had micro moments of
liking they would go down the hallway
and be like hey Chad hey Chelsea hey
Sarah they liked so many people and that
in turn made them more likable this
showed me that being likable isn't AR
control being likable means you have to
be first Liker if you set out to like
more people you become more
likable and that was a really big shift
for me because for so long I thought it
was all about me it's a very selfish way
to be right I was like I better be
impressive I better be funny but
actually what makes us likable is just
liking as many people as possible I was
laughing as you're speaking because I
was just playing out all the different
sort of personas of people listening
right now yeah and I just had this one
Persona of the person sat at home who
just like slumped over because they
realized they hate
everybody when you said that they were
like I hate everybody look I get it
I get it I get it and I also think that
if you hate everyone if that's you let
me try to convince you for a second it
could be because you're asking the wrong
questions okay I think I fell into that
camp I don't need people I don't like
people I was very much in that camp for
the first couple of years why because I
had terrible interactions and terrible
conversations and it was awkward of
course I didn't like people but I was
also asking the wrong questions and I
was telling the wrong stories I was
trying to be impressive the best way to
be impressive to be likable is to help
people impress you is to make them feel
so liked that they begin to like you
back it's aggressively liking so that
means that when you're with someone you
should be constantly giving them verbal
and non-verbal assurances of how much
you want to like them watch them change
watch your relationships transform so I
make it a policy of aggressively liking
people so I have um three phrase Magic
phrases for like ability can I teach
them to you please okay so I want you to
use these as many times as you can three
magic phrases for like ability one I was
just thinking of you okay so here's how
you use this authentically right you
think of a lot of people in your life
all the time yeah if you are thinking of
someone and you can text them text them
I was just thinking of you how are you I
was just thinking of you how'd that
project go I was just thinking of you it
has been a while since we talked or and
better you see a movie you see a
documentary you see a Macha latte you
see a mug you see a ceramic candle and
you're like oh this made me think of you
so my text messages my convers are full
of actual moments where I was triggered
to think of that person actually that
this thing made me think of you or I was
just thinking of you I wanted to ask you
about if you don't think of someone
they're not a person you need to have in
your life okay so that's number one
that's number I want to pause on number
one because I've got some sort of
questions to ask here yes it sounds
exhausting it sounds like it's going to
cost me a lot of time that I don't
necessarily have and this is just my
like my Surface level reaction was oh
God another
job you know what I mean I just I like
if I've got to set aside an hour to like
text everyone I know and go I'm just
thinking of you it's gonna be exhausting
I've got like six friends and I've got
my my partner I got my family and my
team it's a lot it's a lot then just
them and also it doesn't take an hour
when you're like oh stainless steel mug
this made me think of you right like
you're only doing it when it's actually
naturally occurring to you I don't want
you to sit at your desk and be like I'm
due for some I was just thinking of yous
no this happens in the wild okay you're
watching a documentary you're at a
restaurant you're on the bus you're like
oh that reminds me of this person quick
text that is less work than missing an
old friend and not knowing what to say
it is less work to see something in real
life or have a thought of like I wonder
how Sarah is and reaching out to them
then I Miss Sarah but I'm not going to
reach out to
her it's also less work when you see
someone and you haven't seen them in a
while or they're a friend of a friend or
they're that casual coworker
relationship and you're like what do I
say I think it's a lot of work to go up
to that person and be like how was your
weekend I think that's a lot of work I
think boring small talk is a lot of work
if you actually thought of them to say
you know I know you love Dolphins I saw
this dolphin documentary on Netflix have
you seen it I was just thinking of you
made me think of you I got another
concern so if I if I start firing out
these WhatsApp messages telling people
when I'm thinking of them it's just
going to be it's going to be opening up
loads of conversations that I then have
to deal with do you know what I mean
like it's going to be like hey I was
just thinking of you and then they reply
they go oh how how are you and I go I'm
good thanks and then they go I go how
are you they go I'm good thanks and then
do you know what I mean and then they
ask me I don't believe in asking how are
you that's a whole another thing this is
a good test if you are worried that
they're going to start a conversation
that's going to bore you and feel like
work they're not a close friend so don't
text them okay it's a very good test if
there's someone where you're like I
don't really want to hear how they are
yeah them okay this is for the people
who you want to level up with there are
three levels of intim
people who you kind of know you know
their personal you know their General
traits where they work where they live
what they do that's it you don't want to
go any different with them level two
people are people where they know your
personal concerns you know their goals
their motivations their personality
traits their worries those are people
who you want to invest in then there's a
last level which is the most deep level
which is called self-narrative which is
the story We Tell ourselves about
ourselves if you categorize your
relationships another activity I love
for my students to do is make those
three levels on a piece of paper write
down the 20 people you can think of the
top 20 people you spend the most time
with where they fall so we have
acquaintances we have acquaintances who
just kind of know where you're from what
do you do the B people yeah right and by
the way some of the people who you're
close with might you might not be deep
with yeah true right level two personal
concerns could they tell you what is
your Steven biggest goal right now okay
and then the middle layer I didn't
understand that's the middle layer that
that's the miday so it's General traits
personal concerns self-narrative what's
self-narrative so this is what my my
next book is about I'm doing research on
it right now self-narrative is story you
tell yourself about yourself so is this
a group of people it's the levels of
intimacy you are with someone so would
your partner okay
know the story you tell yourself about
yourself I'll give you an example 100%
she would I think so so I think that
there are basically three main types of
narratives and you should know what
these are for the closest people in your
life maybe only two or three and you
should also know what it is for yourself
the best one is a hero narrative this is
I've worked really hard I've had some
challenges and mistakes but I've
overcome with hard work and smarts and
now I am where I am every version of
their story their career their life
their relationships is that same
narrative over and over again then
there's what I think is called the
Healer narrative again I'm doing
research on this from an next book the
Healer narrative their story is all
about helping others they typically are
in careers of service of helping others
physical therapists nurses Healthcare
their story is how can I be more helpful
they tend to have a problem though if
you're in a relationship with a with a
Healer is they always put other people's
needs before them themselves they're do
they have some kind of historic trauma
they can and a lot of the times they
were put in a position of caretaking too
early like they were told that you're of
value if you can caretake you're of
value if you put your needs last so they
tend to be people Pleasers they tend to
say yes to everything you have to be
careful if you work with a Healer
because they're great to work with they
help help help but they say yes to too
much so uh healer is the middle one the
last one is victim narrative victim
narrative no matter what personal
professional love life taxes they have
the same narrative I experienced
challenges and mistakes and I didn't
overcome no matter how hard I work no
matter how smart I am the world is
against me so question I ask people to
begin to uncover their self- narrative
is do you feel lucky do you feel lucky I
feel very lucky I also feel very lucky
people who have a resounding yes to I
feel lucky are more likely heroes or or
healers people who say I don't feel
lucky I feel very unlucky are typically
victims Dr Richard wisman did a study he
asked people to perceive their own luck
how lucky do you feel then he gave them
a challenge he gave them a newspaper and
he said I want you to count the amount
of images in this
newspaper they sat with the newspaper
and they counted all the images but
there was a trick there's always a trick
in these studies on the second page of
the newspaper in big print it said stop
counting there are 42 Imes in this
newspaper almost all of the people who
perceived themselves as lucky saw the ad
closed the paper and gave it back so
there are 42 images almost none of the
Unlucky people did The Unlucky people
missed the ad and kept counting spent a
lot of time and made more mistakes this
means that if you think of yourself as
lucky you literally see more
opportunities if you think of yourself
as unlucky you miss them is it possible
to change how you see yourself I do
believe in a growth mindset so I do
believe that if you if this is
resonating with you and like you're like
uh oh I feel unlucky I might have this
victim self-narrative I do believe it's
possible to change your perception of
yourself and that's starting with small
moments of heroism I think that changing
your people skills saying I don't like
people and saying I'm going to find a
way to like people saying I'm bad at
conversation I'm going to find a way to
be good at conversation to say I'm an
awkward person no I'm a recovering
awkward person if we can begin to take
those tiny experiments and change them
one by one we begin to have small
moments of heroism and that's how we
change our self narrative as Employer I
think about this a lot these sort of
verbal and non-verbal cues I actually I
had an interview some time ago and I
think I came out of the interview and I
think objectively the person might have
been qualified but there was something
about their energy or cues or something
that signaled something else to me that
they were an unhappy person or they were
tired or they didn't really want to be
here or something like that are there
any studies that confirm that our hidden
communication is driving our success in
the working environment yes so this
study blew my mind it's 58,000 working
hours over 11 different companies so a
huge am amount of data they wanted to
know if low performers infect the people
around them and if High performers
infect people around them what they
found was if you sit within 25 F feet of
a high performer your own performance
improves by
15% here's the kicker if you sit within
25 ft of a low performer your own
performance decreases by
30% this means that our negative
emotions are more contagious that if
you're around people who are low
performers whatever that means to you
who have negative cues who are feeling
anxious or tired or low confident you
could catch those cues and that affects
your own performance
this is why it is incredibly critical to
invest in the five people who you spend
the most time with you want to make sure
those five people are the cues you want
to catch do you like the cues they're
sending do they give you the right
motivation feelings do they make you
feel like do they make you a better
version of
yourself there's there's just one more
chemical aspect of this which we have to
do more research
on this is a very gross study but it's
one of my favorites it's a little gross
you ready okay so they brought people
into their lab they so them up into two
different groups and they made the first
group wear a sweat suit where they catch
your sweat and run on the treadmill so
they sweat a lot on the treadmill the
second group they wore sweatsuits and
they took them skydiving for the first
time both groups sweat a lot treadmill
sweat and skydiving sweat they took
these sweat samples and they had
unsuspecting participants go into fmri
machines and scan their brains then they
gave them both sweat samples to smell
poor these poor people did not didn't
know what they were smelling they went it
it
everyone who smelled the skydiving sweat
had an activation in their own amydala
their own fear response triggered
another words when they smelled fear
sweat they didn't know why they began to
feel afraid everyone who smelled the
treadmill sweat had no change at all
this means that yes we can talk about
facial expressions and body language and
vocal cues and words but there's also
something chemically happening with the
people around us that we can literally
smell fear and we catch it and that is
also why it's really important to follow
our gut oh dear I was going to say well
then we're all screwed aren't we we
can't we can't do anything because
there's if we're giving off these
chemicals which are impacting those
around us it doesn't matter if I smile
and do the whole like no because I think
intention is the back door into
confidence it's very hard to fake
confidence I don't believe in fake it
till you make it I don't really but if I
say I have a conversational tool for you
that's going to make your conversations
better you become less nervous you
become more excited you ask a better
question they give you a really good
answer you feel super charismatic they
feel really liked you feel real likable
oh we have a good little cycle so I
think that intention going in with
really purposeful cues helps you feel
more confident and triggers these
beautiful Cycles the cycle is this the
cycle you're talking about the Q cycle
the Q cycle yes I'll put it on the
screen and in the description for anyone
that wants to see it but when I saw this
the reason I printed this off is because
it really hit close to home because I'm
someone that meets a lot of people and
um when I meet people people there on
the very rare occasion something about
someone will just kind of throw my
energy and it throws my energy to the
point that I realize I'm then acting a
little bit in terms of my interaction
with them and it's almost like I can't
control it like something about the
person has unnerved me or just made and
it's nothing that I could consciously
tell you like say it was the way they
shook my hand just something about them
yeah throws me into this different state
yeah um and when I saw this I I I almost
figured out why because the first step
in this Q you you explain it I mean it's
your Q cycle yes okay so we often
mistakenly think that we send a signal
to someone else they send a signal back
to us and that's it we don't realize as
there's a cycle happening within us
which is that if you send me a negative
q i internalize it and that changes the
cues I'm sending back to you here's a
very simple experiment that showed this
they put a participant in a room and
they had an actor in the room flashed
them a fe a social rejection cue that
could be
an eye roll a scoff a distancing and
blocking Behavior so the participants in
the room and this person across from
them they don't know as an actor sends
them a social rejection cue what they
found was the moment that participant
saw the social rejection queue their own
pupils dilated and their field of vision
increased this means that somebody saw
uhoh that person doesn't like me and
their body reacted to fight ORF flight
do does anyone else feel this way about me
me
are there any Escape Routes for me and
that then changed what cues they sent
back to that person they were more
anxious they were more nervous if you
walk into a room with someone and you're
feeling bad you probably caught a queue
here's the good news you can stop the Q
cycle from being negative there's also
positive cues right we can catch
positive cues that can be good for us
but we can stop the negative cycle if we
label the queue we see Dr Matthew
liberman at UCLA studied this very
clearly he put people in fmri machines
and he flashed them a fear micro
expression the one that you showed us
earlier with your eyes really wide when
people saw the fear micro expression
they caught the fear they began to feel
afraid and their amdal it up but when he
taught them say fear or think fear he
taught them the micro expression it
stopped activating their amydala meaning
if you know how to read the 97 cues and
you see contempt or social rejection or
a mouth shrug or a lip purse all not
great cues you can in your head say lip
purse I'm good or clocked noted that
Intel is actually empowering so that
back door into confidence is also you
can label it name it tame it and you're
in control of it that is a much better
way to interact and also can help you
like people for all my people who don't
like people okay so in those moments I
should in my head just say what lab
clocked yeah that's what I say to myself
or like red flag or noted you're in
you're particularly famous for a TED
Talk that you did yeah which did very
very well um it was called you are
contagious and it really opened my eyes
to the importance of hand gestures yes
which I didn't really think were that
important before but it's funny because
going through this election cycle
obviously Trump has now been elected as
the next president of the United States
He is someone in particular that uses a
lot of hand gestures and in your Ted
Talk you make the case that hand
gestures matter oh so much I think the
hands of the windows into the soul I
think what we underestimate is the power
of our gestures love it just love it
just those jazz just jazz hands so
here's I want to do a little experiment
with you so I'm going to put my hands in
my lap I've been very careful to leave
my hands on the table for the entire
interview that's on purpose now
something funny happens in your brain
when you can't see my hands and the
longer my hands are underneath the table
the more your amydala will begin to Fire
and the more distracted you become with
where are her hands why are her hands
under the table and the moment I bring
my hands back out again your brain
goes and that is because hands show
intention and this makes sense from an
evolutionary perspective so if we go
back to caveman days if we were
approached by a stranger caveman and
they went friend friend friend friend
friend friend we saw they weren't
carrying a rock or a spear and they were
probably a friend in fact when we go so
nice to meet you we can see someone's
hand we know that they're literally not
going to harm us so our brain still
keeps this mechanism that if we're on
video and we can't see someone's hands
or they walk into an office with their
hands in their pockets or behind their
back we feel a little bit uneasy so
there's two things for this first is the
moment someone first sees you you want
to be friend friend friend good to see
see you oh so nice to meet you what put
your hand up for people that can't see
the moment I walk into a room hey nice
to see you even before I handshake even
an old friend I'll be like oh my gosh so
good to see you on Zoom morning for
people for people that can't see she's
basically putting her hand in the air
which like a little wave W Little Wave
we love a palm as humans we love seeing
someone's Palm there's something about
it that makes us feel like ah they are
literally open palmed so that's the
first in the first few seconds of
someone seeing you in person on video
try to flash your palm very very simply
second we understand competence in two
ways very highly competent people know
their content so well they can speak to
you on two tracks they can speak to you
verbally but they also can speak to you
with their hands this is why we loved
picture books as kids and so when
someone is speaking we're listening to
their words but second we're looking are
their hands outlining their words so for
example all the best TED Talks start the
same way and this is what got me my TED
Talk is we studied all the TED talks
from 2010 looking for patterns and my
team and I coded every Ted Talk we can
find looking for differences between the
most viral TED talks and the least viral
viral TED Talks we found the most viral
Ted speakers used an average an average
of 465 hand gestures in 18 minutes
whereas the least popular Ted talkers
use an average of 271 gestures so not
quite half meaning if someone walks on
stage here's a a really good Ted Talk
they all start this way you
ready today I want to talk to you about
a big idea we're going to share three
different things that are going to
change your life so for people listening
I was outlining with my hands along with
my words if I were to get on stage and
say today I have a really big idea it's
huge and hold up my hands in a really
small way your brain is 12.5 times more
likely to believe my gesture over my
words and so what we can do as speakers
as very highly charismatic speakers is
think about how can I outline very
basically not modern dance what I'm
saying or how can I emphasize things
with my gestures if something is Big
Show me is it beach ball big is it what
is this big donkey big is this a donkey
I don't even know yeah big a goat a goat
this is a goat Pig if you have something
that's really small and no big deal
doing this actually helps you think that
it's not a big deal I'm making a little
kind of dismissive gesture with my hand
this also works with emphasizing points
you want people to remember if you have
three ideas tell someone you have three
ideas it is very hard to lie with our
gestures for example you want to do
experiment with me sure okay I want you
to say five but hold up the number
three five hard right yeah so it's
really hard I have to think about them
separately yeah it's really hard our
brain is not meant to lie with gesture
which is why humans pay so close
attention to gestures because we're
looking to see are they congruent it is
so hard to be in congruent with gestures
Liars typically use less gestures so
we're also drawn to people who are using
gestures who are congruent with their
gestures because it makes us feel like
oh they know their stuff and they're
being honest so it made me reflect it
how do we establish causation here in
terms of these hand gestures could it be
the case that the more confident Ted
speakers are doing more gestures because
they're less
nervous so is it about nerves um and the
less um confident more nervous Ted
speakers are doing less gestes just
because they self soothing a lot and
they're they're kind of closing off
their body is confidence the thing here
is it nerves I don't think so I think
it's about engagement so I think most
Ted speakers I watch these TED Talks
they're all good all of them are good
and some of them are experts in their
field the difference is do I want to
watch their good it is hard for me as a
viewer to pay attention for 18 minutes
with someone who didn't use enough
gestures it was like physically hard for
my brain to pay attention I think those
speakers what good or not had over
rehearsed and rehearsed out their hand
gestures or were holding a Podium or
we're holding a clicker too hard so I
actually think that it's less to do with
the speaker's nerves or confidence and
it's more to do with are they going to
let themselves use their hands to
explain their points and that becomes
more engaging one of the things I've
noticed on this podcast is people who
are using their hands are more
expressive and if they're more
expressive there's likely to be more
sort of intonations in their voice and
if there's more intonations it's more
engaging and if it's more engaging then
it's more retentive for the algorithm if
it's more retentive the algorithm it's
suggested more if it's suggested more
there's more
views so I would like to tell my guests
all the past particularly future guests
that if you're if you have more
expression in what you're saying and
more intonations in your voice then our
show will grow okay let's talk about two
things here one is we did a test on my
YouTube channel and found that if we
used a thumbnail of me doing any hand
gesture it didn't even matter what it
was it could be this it could be this
any hand gesture that got more clicks
people even in the thumbnail like to see
the hand gesture even more than my crazy
facial expressions we tried both so yes
we are because if you see a thumbnail of
me you know holding up two you're like
what two things is she talking about
what is it so it's we we like it it
shows competence and the second thing is
that vocal variety is an incredibly
important aspect of Charisma we're
talking about gestures but there is a
feedback loop here that the more like if
you if I were try if I were G going to
sit on my hands for this interview you
would notice my facial expression would
get less charismatic my vocal tone would
be less charismatic it's really hard to
be charismatic without movement vocal
variety is a critical aspect of both
warmth and competence that is because
when we hear someone who's able to for
example give us the Ted Talk voice so
I'm going give you the Ted Talk voice you
you
ready this point is going to change the
way that we think about the world and if
we don't analyze this point we will be
in huge trouble like that is a voice
that is telling you o this is important
you also hear that really good speakers
will use like a numbers voice so a
numbers voice sounds like this did you
know that 43% of humans all believe in
the same thing
43% like there's and if you're telling a
story it changes again so a story tone
would go like this you're never going to
believe what happened to me so last week
I'm walking down the street and I saw
this guy it's a totally different vocal
variety that is a gift to your listener
that makes you more engaging because
they're able to clock H we're doing a
number now oh we have a story now oh
this is an important point I better
write it down really good Ted speakers
are outlining their talk for you in me
in many different ways and that's the
best speakers I see on stage it's so
interesting because in this podcast we
um had quite a long conversation a
couple of months ago about arms on the
chair the chair that you're in now and
it was just this observation we had when
we first flew out here to New York the
chairs that we ordered were pretty
similar to this but they just happen to
have arms on them and what I noticed was
that guests would lean oh and and it
would take out their arms yes so it took
out their arms and they became less
expressive and the conversations were
less interesting yes so we removed the
arms again okay so let's talk about this
just very briefly yeah I actually do
recommend chairs with arms not in this
setup because look at the difference so
actually right before this interview you
asked me to scoot my chair in right your
amazing team ask me to good my turn
thank you for that because it makes it
so that I want to put my hands up if I
were to be sitting farther back I'm just
going to lean back for a second I would
be tempted to put my hands in my lap yes
so the critical piece of this is you're
having me scoot up to the table it would
be really hard if I had arms because
then I would want to go like this and it
would make me look like a duck yes right
so you want to use a chair with arms to
be broader it actually does broaden your
arms out unless you're really close to
the table then you can put your hands on
the table but I I it's amazing how the
physical environment can change how we
are perceived and how we move but even
that we're very intentional about the
sort of mirroring our body language and
just making sure that we're head on
because this conversation is entirely
different if we're side on very much
it's not going to be the same very much
and there's not going to be the same
level of intimacy we also thought a lot
about the how big the table was this is
quite a big table what's the distance uh
I'm going to say it's about Just sh two
Mets wait can you hold your arm out okay
so this perfect distence the perfect
distance between two people having a
good conversation is that we could shake
hands if we wanted to okay and that is
because there are four different
proxemic zones so the fancy word for
space is proxemics I don't know if you
have the beautiful graphic I print out
this oh yes that's it yes so there are
four different space zones and these are
really good to know if you're trying to
set yourself up for Success the public
zone is about 5 to eight feet away I
don't know uh not feet but 5 to8 feet
away then you have the social Zone which
is where we like to socialize with
people that is depending on who you ask
three to 5 feet away then there's the
personal Zone that's our favorite Zone
that is about uh arms distance apart
right so we could shake hands if we
wanted to that's where our best
conversations happen and then there's
the in inate Zone a big mistake people
make is they Place their video camera
too close to their face which means they
are accidentally signaling intimacy cues
with their colleagues and their
co-workers have you ever been on a zoom
with someone where their FA is the
entire camera yeah I was on one earlier
on and you're like please back up and
that is because your brain is going too
close even though they're across a
camera so what I would really recommend
measure the distance between your nose
and your camera it should be one arm
length so it should be the tip of your
nose to the tip of your fingers or a
foot and a half to three feet away that
is the ideal zone for having good
conversation over Zoom that's really
interesting as well because I was
thinking about the conversation I had
actually on the way here in the car with
a colleague of mine and they had called
me on FaceTime now the thing with
FaceTime is it's going to be close it's
going to be close and it it did feel a
little bit intimate it does um because
they call me on FaceTime yes and
obviously if I was on my laptop they
would call me on Zoom or something else
and you there would be a so I think that
that's why we can sometimes at least
introverts feel like don't FaceTime me
it's way too personal it's because
there's a setup there that it's actually
accidentally tricking you into being in
the intimate Zone with someone this is
also why uh loud bars and nightclubs
work so well for facilitating romantic
relationships what happens in a loud bar
or a loud nightclub is you can't hear
someone so you go what and then you get
a little bit closer and all of a sudden
you're accidentally standing in
someone's intimate Zone which then that
Q cycle begins to kick in where you're
like well if I'm standing within a foot
and a half from this person maybe I
should feel intimate with them which
then makes you lean more makes you want
to touch more that is why people go to
bars and nightclubs to facilitate these
romantic relationships it's accidentally
going into the intimate Zone when I was
younger I've said this a few times on
the podcast before but it's feels very
relevant my brother my older brother
Jason he ordered this book called The
Game uh by Neil Strauss yes and it um he
ordered it to University but he
accidentally put the wrong address and
so it came to home this sounds like an
elaborate story for me like buying a
pickup artist book but it came to home
and I read the book and it was my first
time understanding that body language
was a important but even some you could
learn and and you know when I say body
language I mean everything um and it's
it's interesting because now after
reading your work I actually think maybe
what I should have been aiming at was
how to be more
charismatic and you talk about these
five science-based habits for being more
charismatic yeah I guess the first
question is what is charisma yes and
then what are these five science-based
habits that can make me more charismatic
as a person like how do I know if I'm
charismatic you are charismatic but you
lean higher on competence so so let's
break it down okay so this is not my
work this is the work of Dr Susan Fisk
this is a instrumental study it's been
repeated many times back in 2002 that
found that to be charismatic you have to
be both highly warm and highly competent
or more importantly if to Signal High
warmth and high competence and that this
is makes up 82% of impressions of people
warmth trust likeability friendliness
competence power reliability capability
so very highly charismatic people you
meet them you see them and they are
signaling you can trust me you like me
and boy am I reliable and competent at
the very same time so when I say you are
charismatic but you lean very high in
competence which means that people can
see you as cold or stoic if you're not
showing enough warmth cues have you been
told that intimidating
indirectly people are do scared to say
it me I'm joking but no I do get that I
do I do I think I have like some degree
of self as to how I come across and I
think how you described it is exactly
how I come across and that's not a bad
thing right like you get to pick your
own recipe like I lean a little higher
on the warm side I'm also female there
are differences between men and women so
typically not always men default to
higher incompetence women are defaulted
to hire in warmth typically not always
this isn't a bad thing but you should
know that if you are trying to come
across as warmer on your team you're
trying to inspire more collaboration
you're trying to make more friends you
want to dial up your warmth cues
if you're someone who's interrupted a
lot not taken seriously people forget
meeting you you need to dial up
confidence this is like a thermostat you
can dial up warmth cues and dial up
competence cues and this changes the way
people treat you so I have five power
cues for competence and I have five warm
cues for warmth we're going to go
through all of those I saw this
wonderful graph which kind of explains
it which I'll put on the screen for
anyone that's watching um and this was
really really interesting there's a
danger zone the danger zone I'm guess is
when you're low warmth and low
competence that's it that those are
those folks that are stoic if you don't
send enough warmth cues if you don't
send enough competence cues people
cannot trust you they have trouble
working with you they have trouble
talking to you this is the curse of very
smart people very smart people think my
ideas will stand alone my book smarts
are great I don't need to communicate
these cues my ideas are enough that's
what happened to Jamie Simmon off in the
tank he did not show enough warmth or
comp cues he relied solely on his ideas
and his numbers and he could not get a
deal so people who want to be taken
seriously you have to show warmth and
competence the other problem with highly
competent folks and you lean higher in
competence so this is for you too which
is it's directly from the
research too much competence without
enough warmth leaves people feeling
suspicious so no matter how competent
you are no matter how good your ideas
are if you are not showcasing that with
warmth people are skeptical of you and
this is what happens with a lot of my
students is they're like people don't
trust me they don't believe my ideas
they're skeptical I get push back or
they I do sales trainings they can't
close you'll push back on their numbers
and that is because some part of them is
saying I hear your competence but you're
not giving me enough warmth can you be
too warm you can be absolutely too warm
you can be too warm and too competent
too warm you know what that looks
like yes that's too
warm okay okay too warm is so we'll talk
about the five warmth cues too much of
any Q is dangerous right so too much
nodding too much laughing too much uh
vocalizations those are all too warm and
they make us think this person is a
bimbo or a dits or not competent that's
what happens we have too much warmth it
takes away from our competence where
should we start let's start with the
power Keys okay the power keys so this
is competence yes power keys let me get
some my power cues M okay so we talked
about the importance of hand gestures
there is a very good competent hand
gesture which everyone should know if
you want to be perceived as higher in
competence it's called the steeple oh
this the oh yes it's on the cover of my
book if you want to see it yes this
looks when your hands look like a little
steeple they're kind of relaxed open
it's a triangle for anyone that com kind
of like a triangle y a triangle it's a
power pose for the hands why if you are
doing this pose you're showing I'm not
hiding anything from you you can still
see my Palms but I am
very relaxed and poised enough so that
I'm keeping my hands together now be
careful don't drum this is evil fingers
yeah this is Mr Burns those of you who
know right so it's a nice still steeple
uh they have found they raided hand
gestures in a study and they found that
this was the single most the highest
rated hand gesture that leaders made was
when they made this gesture now
personally I don't use this a lot in my
interpersonal interactions because it
doesn't feel Supernatural to me it's
funny because we took one picture for my
cover tit cover photos and my all every
single picture of me from my cover
photos I was smiling and my wonderful
photographer Maggie Kirkland said
Vanessa can we just do one of you
serious and I was like but I'm not
serious she's like just just one just do your most powerful power que and this is
your most powerful power que and this is the only picture and that was the one
the only picture and that was the one that we chose for it so it's just funny
that we chose for it so it's just funny because it's a very high competence cue
because it's a very high competence cue so you can try the steeple just be
so you can try the steeple just be careful not to do evil finger evil
careful not to do evil finger evil fingers with it that's a high confidence
fingers with it that's a high confidence CU that picture of you on the front what
CU that picture of you on the front what is that signaling so it's a it's a
is that signaling so it's a it's a perfect balance right so one I have the
perfect balance right so one I have the steeple Q competence gesture two I'm
steeple Q competence gesture two I'm angled towards you my body is angled
angled towards you my body is angled towards you which is a warmth you that's
towards you which is a warmth you that's fronting my toes are angled towards you
fronting my toes are angled towards you which is warmth I also have a smoldering
which is warmth I also have a smoldering eye contact look which is high
eye contact look which is high competence which we can talk about and I
competence which we can talk about and I have an up face right I'm not in my
have an up face right I'm not in my resting bothered face so that's a slight
resting bothered face so that's a slight warmth queue that is actually how it
warmth queue that is actually how it makes me feel there's a there's an
makes me feel there's a there's an element of power but it's not an
element of power but it's not an intimidating level of power because I
intimidating level of power because I balanced it with that warmth yeah it's
balanced it with that warmth yeah it's like a
like a welcoming woo we did it now I got to do
welcoming woo we did it now I got to do it with the next one Ste okay SE SE yeah
it with the next one Ste okay SE SE yeah second this is a weird one the most
second this is a weird one the most important measurement on your entire
important measurement on your entire body is the distance between your
body is the distance between your earlobe and your shoulder this distance
earlobe and your shoulder this distance right here watch if I were to do this in
right here watch if I were to do this in the interview the entire time if I were
the interview the entire time if I were to have a very small distance between my
to have a very small distance between my Earl and my shoulder I would look
Earl and my shoulder I would look anxious I would also have a really hard
anxious I would also have a really hard time giving you vocal power you would
time giving you vocal power you would have a hard do you trust me no you look
have a hard do you trust me no you look nervous right I look nervous there's a
nervous right I look nervous there's a direct correlation between confidence
direct correlation between confidence and anxiety and the distance between our
and anxiety and the distance between our shoulder and our Earl and very quickly
shoulder and our Earl and very quickly we're trying to just assess someone the
we're trying to just assess someone the first few seconds of seeing them we're
first few seconds of seeing them we're trying to assess how confident are you
trying to assess how confident are you can I catch it we don't like people who
can I catch it we don't like people who are anxious we don't want to talk to
are anxious we don't want to talk to someone like this because we don't want
someone like this because we don't want to catch that anxiety but we do want to
to catch that anxiety but we do want to talk to someone who has the max distance
talk to someone who has the max distance between their earlobes and their
between their earlobes and their shoulder so when you're in a first
shoulder so when you're in a first impression also in your profile
impression also in your profile pictures I want a relaxed distance
pictures I want a relaxed distance shoulders down Earls out which is
shoulders down Earls out which is another reason why I like that this is
another reason why I like that this is how your table is set up because it
how your table is set up because it pushes my shoulders down so I have a max
pushes my shoulders down so I have a max distance that makes me look more
distance that makes me look more confident but it also makes me feel more
confident but it also makes me feel more confident there's a look here so when
confident there's a look here so when you do the steeple and then you roll
you do the steeple and then you roll your shoulders down and back you will
your shoulders down and back you will begin to feel more
begin to feel more confident don't you feel good don't what
confident don't you feel good don't what if you like raise your head though like
if you like raise your head though like because if I'm trying to get my ears
because if I'm trying to get my ears away from my shoulders I might go like
away from my shoulders I might go like this actually they're the same distance
this actually they're the same distance so you want to actually keep your yeah
so you want to actually keep your yeah you want to keep your chin level and you
you want to keep your chin level and you if you can help it you don't want to
if you can help it you don't want to actually look down at someone down your
actually look down at someone down your nose at someone it's quite a um scornful
nose at someone it's quite a um scornful judgmental exactly so you just noticed
judgmental exactly so you just noticed it even when I did it so it's not this
it even when I did it so it's not this it's just this so maximizing this
it's just this so maximizing this difference third one I love eye contact
difference third one I love eye contact we all know good eye contact is
we all know good eye contact is important but here's what you might not
important but here's what you might not know about good eye contacts eye contact
know about good eye contacts eye contact is a power move when you look at someone
is a power move when you look at someone at the end of your
at the end of your sentence so we're very used to if
sentence so we're very used to if someone's thinking about something and
someone's thinking about something and they're processing something in their
they're processing something in their head and I'm telling you that there are
head and I'm telling you that there are 465 gestures in a TED Talk that is the
465 gestures in a TED Talk that is the most important way that I want to
most important way that I want to showcase something to you that we like
showcase something to you that we like it when someone is actually accessing
it when someone is actually accessing different memories or areas of their
different memories or areas of their brain but then when I end my sentence
brain but then when I end my sentence looking right at you you're
looking right at you you're like so highly competent people make eye
like so highly competent people make eye contact specifically at the end of their
contact specifically at the end of their sentences to drill a point and ideally
sentences to drill a point and ideally when the other person is saying
when the other person is saying something
something important okay interesting I just did it
important okay interesting I just did it then but I do that when I'm when I'm
then but I do that when I'm when I'm doing interviews because I kind of like
doing interviews because I kind of like look off into the distance to think a
look off into the distance to think a little bit and then I come back to ask
little bit and then I come back to ask the worst advice I hear people give body
the worst advice I hear people give body language experts give make more eye
language experts give make more eye contact make 100% eye contact
contact make 100% eye contact actually in Western culture as they've
actually in Western culture as they've studied this the ideal amount of eye
studied this the ideal amount of eye contact is between 60 and 70% of the
contact is between 60 and 70% of the conversation if you make over 70% eye
conversation if you make over 70% eye contact it's actually considered a
contact it's actually considered a territorial gesture so if I were be
territorial gesture so if I were be making 100% eye contact with you it feel
making 100% eye contact with you it feel very invasive very awkward we like it
very invasive very awkward we like it when someone is processing or gathering
when someone is processing or gathering information from around like if I'm
information from around like if I'm processing something or I'm thinking
processing something or I'm thinking about something or I'm accessing all
about something or I'm accessing all that matters is at the end of my point
that matters is at the end of my point I'm looking right at you and that feels
I'm looking right at you and that feels so much more powerful Okay so that's
so much more powerful Okay so that's number three yeah that's number three
number three yeah that's number three yeah okay fourth one one of my favorites
yeah okay fourth one one of my favorites it's called a lower lid Flex lower lid
it's called a lower lid Flex lower lid Flex is one of the least utilized but
Flex is one of the least utilized but one of my favorite cues so biologically
one of my favorite cues so biologically speaking when we are trying to see
speaking when we are trying to see something far away we Harden our lower
something far away we Harden our lower Lids like I'm trying to read the titles
Lids like I'm trying to read the titles on your bookshelf I Harden my lower Lids
on your bookshelf I Harden my lower Lids that is because when our eye is trying
that is because when our eye is trying to see far it Squints to block out the
to see far it Squints to block out the light so you'll see more details in my
light so you'll see more details in my face when you harden your lower lid at
face when you harden your lower lid at me so Harden your lower lid if you look
me so Harden your lower lid if you look at People's sexiest men alive almost
at People's sexiest men alive almost every man in that magazine
every man in that magazine is it's Zoolander right blue steel blue
is it's Zoolander right blue steel blue steel is actually just a lower lid Flex
steel is actually just a lower lid Flex that is because when someone is trying
that is because when someone is trying to really focus on something and really
to really focus on something and really understand something their lower lid is
understand something their lower lid is flexed as as you're doing right now and
flexed as as you're doing right now and boy oh boy do we like it when someone is
boy oh boy do we like it when someone is lower lid flexing at us because it means
lower lid flexing at us because it means you are really trying to understand and
you are really trying to understand and see me so a lower lid Flex is a great
see me so a lower lid Flex is a great power Q to use in moderation right
power Q to use in moderation right nothing too much that when someone is
nothing too much that when someone is saying something on a date or in a
saying something on a date or in a meeting or a colleague is saying
meeting or a colleague is saying something really important and you want
something really important and you want to show them I am really listening that
to show them I am really listening that lower lid Flex shows them I am super
lower lid Flex shows them I am super focused and intense on you that is why
focused and intense on you that is why women find men who do the lower lid Flex
women find men who do the lower lid Flex very sexy because they feel like he's
very sexy because they feel like he's really focusing on me now there's a
really focusing on me now there's a little side note the lower lid Flex
little side note the lower lid Flex lower lid Flex is not it's inherently in
lower lid Flex is not it's inherently in a POS postive Q it's a CU of Focus right
a POS postive Q it's a CU of Focus right if you are in a presentation or a
if you are in a presentation or a meeting and you say something and
meeting and you say something and someone suddenly Li flexes at
someone suddenly Li flexes at you you might have just said something
you you might have just said something in there like really yeah so for me this
in there like really yeah so for me this was a game-changing moment as I was
was a game-changing moment as I was giving a presentation to a bunch of
giving a presentation to a bunch of Executives and I said something about
Executives and I said something about oxytocin which is the the hormone of um
oxytocin which is the the hormone of um love and cuddle and connection and he
love and cuddle and connection and he goes I saw him lower lid Flex at me but
goes I saw him lower lid Flex at me but he's also turned his head though I don't
he's also turned his head though I don't know if he I don't remember if he turned
know if he I don't remember if he turned his head but all I noticed is that
his head but all I noticed is that distinctly he went from mhm mhm to ah
distinctly he went from mhm mhm to ah yes and I went does that make sense any
yes and I went does that make sense any questions so if you see a lower lid flex
questions so if you see a lower lid flex your best choice is to try to gather
your best choice is to try to gather more information that make sense all
more information that make sense all good any questions for me how we feel
good any questions for me how we feel about this so I said any questions for
about this so I said any questions for me and he goes and I looked right at him
me and he goes and I looked right at him I said any questions for me he said you
I said any questions for me he said you know I think they gave my wife oxytocin
know I think they gave my wife oxytocin and labor is that the same thing and
and labor is that the same thing and it's true that they give a form of
it's true that they give a form of oxytocin to induce women in labor That's
oxytocin to induce women in labor That's How Strong oxytocin is it in high doses
How Strong oxytocin is it in high doses it will put women into labor it's a form
it will put women into labor it's a form it's called pcin I said you're
it's called pcin I said you're absolutely right in medical settings
absolutely right in medical settings they can give synthetic forms of
they can give synthetic forms of oxytocin to push women into labor that
oxytocin to push women into labor that was a moment for me because one is I
was a moment for me because one is I realized I was able to stop the
realized I was able to stop the skepticism and the confusion right there
skepticism and the confusion right there before we moved on to anyone else
before we moved on to anyone else anything else and now when I teach
anything else and now when I teach oxytocin I say in Social settings
oxytocin I say in Social settings oxytocin means this because in medical
oxytocin means this because in medical settings that means something different
settings that means something different so noticing that lower lid Flex is
so noticing that lower lid Flex is incredibly important for you to
incredibly important for you to understand where you might have a hint
understand where you might have a hint of skepticism or a hint of confusion if
of skepticism or a hint of confusion if you're in a sales meeting or a
you're in a sales meeting or a presentation you want to make sure you
presentation you want to make sure you have addressed whatever that person is
have addressed whatever that person is flexing about before you move on super
flexing about before you move on super interesting in that example you give
interesting in that example you give there as well had you not investigated
there as well had you not investigated that lower lid Flex you might have also
that lower lid Flex you might have also thought something you said was wrong and
thought something you said was wrong and lost your confidence and that can spiral
lost your confidence and that can spiral into you know closing off and becoming a
into you know closing off and becoming a worse presenter this is why I thought
worse presenter this is why I thought people hated me and I hated people so
people hated me and I hated people so for my folks that are listening who are
for my folks that are listening who are like I hate people and I get it I was
like I hate people and I get it I was misreading cu's as skeptical or negative
misreading cu's as skeptical or negative of me when it could have been neutral or
of me when it could have been neutral or curiosity or trying to understand
curiosity or trying to understand something better if you can give these a
something better if you can give these a try it will help you more deeply
try it will help you more deeply understand people which might help you
understand people which might help you like them
like them more ready for the fifth one I'm ready
more ready for the fifth one I'm ready for the fifth okay the fifth one this is
for the fifth okay the fifth one this is a vocal cue so we talked a lot about
a vocal cue so we talked a lot about body language cues but vocal cues are
body language cues but vocal cues are incredibly
incredibly important vocal
important vocal cues tell someone how you are feeling
cues tell someone how you are feeling about them and how you feel about
about them and how you feel about yourself one of the biggest ones is an
yourself one of the biggest ones is an accidental question inflection a
accidental question inflection a question inflection is when we go up at
question inflection is when we go up at the end of our sentence so it sounds
the end of our sentence so it sounds like we're asking a question even if
like we're asking a question even if we're actually using a
we're actually using a statement the brain research has
statement the brain research has actually looked at what the brain does
actually looked at what the brain does when it here is an accidental question
when it here is an accidental question reflection if we are listening to
reflection if we are listening to someone and we hear them accidentally
someone and we hear them accidentally use the question reflection our brain
use the question reflection our brain goes from listening to scrutinizing why
goes from listening to scrutinizing why our brain wonders why did you ask me
our brain wonders why did you ask me that Liars typically accidentally use
that Liars typically accidentally use the question in flection if I say to my
the question in flection if I say to my daughter did you take the cookie from
daughter did you take the cookie from the cookie jar and she goes
the cookie jar and she goes no I Liars are asking do you believe
no I Liars are asking do you believe this so we have noticed we did a massive
this so we have noticed we did a massive experiment in our lab where we had
experiment in our lab where we had people play two truths and a lie with us
people play two truths and a lie with us so share two truths about themselves and
so share two truths about themselves and a lie and we found overwhelmingly one of
a lie and we found overwhelmingly one of the biggest patterns there's a couple of
the biggest patterns there's a couple of different patterns one of the biggest
different patterns one of the biggest ones was that Liars asked their lie
ones was that Liars asked their lie statement so like it would sound like
statement so like it would sound like this here you can play with me and I'll
this here you can play with me and I'll I'll add the question reflection to one
I'll add the question reflection to one I love dogs I live in Austin Texas and I
I love dogs I live in Austin Texas and I love
love cilantro oh yeah you don't like cilant
cilantro oh yeah you don't like cilant no it's like a crime against humanity
no it's like a crime against humanity like why do people cantro on anything so
like why do people cantro on anything so notice people ask the lie because they
notice people ask the lie because they were asking do you believe this so our
were asking do you believe this so our brain is very Adept at this if we hear
brain is very Adept at this if we hear The Accidental question reflection used
The Accidental question reflection used we go wait a minute is someone lying to
we go wait a minute is someone lying to me the biggest mistake that salespeople
me the biggest mistake that salespeople make is they get through their entire
make is they get through their entire pitch and they ask their number so
pitch and they ask their number so sounds like
sounds like this hi we'd love to do business with
this hi we'd love to do business with you we'd love to have your project and
you we'd love to have your project and the cost of this service is
$5,000 if you ask your number you are begging people to negotiate with you if
begging people to negotiate with you if you are asking for a raise or you are
you are asking for a raise or you are asking for a certain salary and you ask
asking for a certain salary and you ask it you are signaling to the other person
it you are signaling to the other person I don't really believe this number and
I don't really believe this number and you shouldn't either so the power CU
you shouldn't either so the power CU number five power CU is using the
number five power CU is using the downward inflection highly competent
downward inflection highly competent people they do not mistakenly use the
people they do not mistakenly use the question reflection they actually go
question reflection they actually go down at the end of their sentences
down at the end of their sentences President Obama was very good at is very
President Obama was very good at is very good at slinging down his words which
good at slinging down his words which makes you want to listen so it sounds
makes you want to listen so it sounds like this I'm going to say nothing so
like this I'm going to say nothing so you can hear it the problem in this
you can hear it the problem in this country is that we don't take seriously
country is that we don't take seriously enough the issues of our people and if
enough the issues of our people and if we don't take those issues seriously we
we don't take those issues seriously we will be in grave trouble so he tends to
will be in grave trouble so he tends to go down at the end of his sentences he
go down at the end of his sentences he also has a lot of space in the bottom of
also has a lot of space in the bottom of his mouth that makes us gives us him
his mouth that makes us gives us him more resonance but it also makes us
more resonance but it also makes us think oh he really believes his word
think oh he really believes his word because it's the opposite of the
because it's the opposite of the question reflection if you have a
question reflection if you have a boundary if you're setting a limit if
boundary if you're setting a limit if you're telling something someone
you're telling something someone something really important about you say
something really important about you say it don't ask ask it that is the biggest
it don't ask ask it that is the biggest thing you can do to get people to take
thing you can do to get people to take you seriously interesting and don't ask
you seriously interesting and don't ask your name most often I hear people ask
your name most often I hear people ask their own name and it destroys their
their own name and it destroys their vocal Charisma so that would be my name
vocal Charisma so that would be my name is Vanessa van
is Vanessa van Edwards that my name is Vanessa van
Edwards that my name is Vanessa van Edwards your perceptions of my
Edwards your perceptions of my confidence in those two introductions
confidence in those two introductions are radically different there's a study
are radically different there's a study that looked at this and they looked at
that looked at this and they looked at the vocal statements of Surgeons they
the vocal statements of Surgeons they had surgeons come into their lab and
had surgeons come into their lab and record 10-second voice tone Clips the
record 10-second voice tone Clips the clips that are most important when
clips that are most important when they're meeting patients their name
they're meeting patients their name their specialty and where they worked
their specialty and where they worked sounded like this hi my name is Dr
sounded like this hi my name is Dr Edwards I specialize in oncology and I
Edwards I specialize in oncology and I work at Children's Presbyterian hospital
work at Children's Presbyterian hospital they took these clips and they warbled
they took these clips and they warbled the words so you could hear the volume
the words so you could hear the volume the pace the Cadence but not the actual
the pace the Cadence but not the actual words being said so sounded like
this I worked very hard on practicing that by the way that's amazing because
that by the way that's amazing because it has testes sound like me but nothing
it has testes sound like me but nothing they took these clips and they had
they took these clips and they had people rate these surgeons on warmth and
people rate these surgeons on warmth and competence the two things that we know
competence the two things that we know are most important for Charisma the
are most important for Charisma the doctors who had the lowest ratings of
doctors who had the lowest ratings of warmth and competence had the highest
warmth and competence had the highest rate of malpractice
rate of malpractice lawsuits in other words we don't Sue
lawsuits in other words we don't Sue doctors based on their skills we Sue
doctors based on their skills we Sue doctors based on our perception of their
doctors based on our perception of their skills and that happens within the first
skills and that happens within the first few seconds of hearing them so if you
few seconds of hearing them so if you give the question reflection on your
give the question reflection on your name on your specialty on what you do
name on your specialty on what you do people begin to doubt you so the bad
people begin to doubt you so the bad doctors sounded like this hi my name is
doctors sounded like this hi my name is Dr Edwards I specialize in oncology and
Dr Edwards I specialize in oncology and I work at Children's petarian
I work at Children's petarian Hospital those doctors got raided as low
Hospital those doctors got raided as low in both warmth and competence because
in both warmth and competence because their brains were going why are they
their brains were going why are they asking are they not sure I'm not sure
asking are they not sure I'm not sure either so it's really signaling
either so it's really signaling conviction in who you are yeah what
conviction in who you are yeah what you're about and what you do
you're about and what you do interesting so practice your name your
interesting so practice your name your price my name is Steven no that was up
price my name is Steven no that was up that was a little hi my name is Steven
that was a little hi my name is Steven that's it okay yeah okay I literally
that's it okay yeah okay I literally asked that like a question didn't I the
asked that like a question didn't I the first one I was like hello my name is
first one I was like hello my name is Stephen I was I was actually asking I
Stephen I was I was actually asking I was trying to ask you if it was a good
was trying to ask you if it was a good pronunciation that's so funny that was
pronunciation that's so funny that was the upward inflection and didn't it feel
the upward inflection and didn't it feel different totally different the second
different totally different the second one was me uh so the first one was like
one was me uh so the first one was like seeking validation and you use a lot of
seeking validation and you use a lot of downward inflection except when you're
downward inflection except when you're asking questions which we like okay
asking questions which we like okay right that's why you lean higher in comp
right that's why you lean higher in comp competence is you use already a lot of
competence is you use already a lot of downward inflection it's so interesting
downward inflection it's so interesting because as you were speaking something
because as you were speaking something came to mind which I was reading about
came to mind which I was reading about in your work um which is you're really
in your work um which is you're really good at what you do you're like very
good at what you do you're like very good as a guest on a podcast and just as
good as a guest on a podcast and just as a professional generally and as I was
a professional generally and as I was thinking this I was saying to myself I'm
thinking this I was saying to myself I'm sure she knows and I'm sure she can tell
sure she knows and I'm sure she can tell from my face that I think she's good but
from my face that I think she's good but it's funny because in your work you say
it's funny because in your work you say that we're actually we over assume
that we're actually we over assume people can read us yes so like when I
people can read us yes so like when I was thinking oh she's so good and in
was thinking oh she's so good and in your work it says like it says that I'm
your work it says like it says that I'm I was doing it I was assuming you knew
I was doing it I was assuming you knew how I felt about you but in your work
how I felt about you but in your work you also make the case that I've
you also make the case that I've actually I should say it yes yes we
actually I should say it yes yes we there's an effect where we think that
there's an effect where we think that people know how we feel specifically
people know how we feel specifically it's called signal amplification bias
it's called signal amplification bias there's a name for this study which is
there's a name for this study which is that we think our signals are obvious
that we think our signals are obvious that if we like someone or if we're
that if we like someone or if we're having a good time we think oh they for
having a good time we think oh they for sure know it they don't oh the three
sure know it they don't oh the three magic phrases we never finish them
magic phrases we never finish them that's why you say I was just thinking
that's why you say I was just thinking of you
of you that's a way of assuring someone I do
that's a way of assuring someone I do think of you only if it's true the
think of you only if it's true the second one is you're always
second one is you're always so so if you're with someone and you're
so so if you're with someone and you're impressed by them or they're interesting
impressed by them or they're interesting or they're funny saying you always make
or they're funny saying you always make me laugh you're always so interesting
me laugh you're always so interesting you're always so great to interview
you're always so great to interview you're always so great at interviews
you're always so great at interviews giving them a label that is a positive
giving them a label that is a positive label is the best gift you can give
label is the best gift you can give someone because it's fighting that
someone because it's fighting that signal amplification bias and the last
signal amplification bias and the last one is last time we talked you mentioned
one is last time we talked you mentioned yeah we are so honored when we get brain
yeah we are so honored when we get brain space that you remembered and you're
space that you remembered and you're going to bring it up and you
going to bring it up and you specifically bring up something that
specifically bring up something that they lit up with so they were like ah it
they lit up with so they were like ah it was great it was exciting it was
was great it was exciting it was wonderful those are my three magic
wonderful those are my three magic phrases and it's because they are
phrases and it's because they are fighting that signal implication bias I
fighting that signal implication bias I have no idea if you like this interview
have no idea if you like this interview I have no idea if you like my work I
I have no idea if you like my work I have no idea and the more that you can
have no idea and the more that you can broadcast those symbols those signals
broadcast those symbols those signals that more people actually like you m so
that more people actually like you m so what do you what advice would you give
what do you what advice would you give me then as an interview I guess I'm an
me then as an interview I guess I'm an interview host of the show what is cuz
interview host of the show what is cuz people come here sometimes they're
people come here sometimes they're nervous you know we have people come and
nervous you know we have people come and they they um some people come in their
they they um some people come in their nervous a little bit and I always try I
nervous a little bit and I always try I always want to make them feel
always want to make them feel comfortable but I you know as you said I
comfortable but I you know as you said I probably don't rank that high on warmth
probably don't rank that high on warmth so it doesn't come that natural to me
so it doesn't come that natural to me I'm not the kind of person that comes
I'm not the kind of person that comes out and it's like hi welcome and like
out and it's like hi welcome and like hey and that would be off brand you yeah
hey and that would be off brand you yeah and it wouldn't be authentic no no would
and it wouldn't be authentic no no would it would be off brand for you right it's
it would be off brand for you right it's too much okay so five warmth cues so for
too much okay so five warmth cues so for those of you who are listening the five
those of you who are listening the five power cues I just shared those are if
power cues I just shared those are if you think you are really high in warmth
you think you are really high in warmth but you worry that people don't take you
but you worry that people don't take you seriously you're worried that people
seriously you're worried that people ignore you you get interrupted in
ignore you you get interrupted in meetings I want you to use those five
meetings I want you to use those five power cues if that's you now I'm going
power cues if that's you now I'm going to teach you five warmth cues if you
to teach you five warmth cues if you have ever been told you're intimidating
have ever been told you're intimidating hard to talk to cold if you often feel
hard to talk to cold if you often feel like people are holding back or not
like people are holding back or not opening up to you I want you to use
opening up to you I want you to use these five warmth cues this ISS dialing
these five warmth cues this ISS dialing up your thermostat okay these are for
up your thermostat okay these are for you you too mhm first we love a triple
you you too mhm first we love a triple nod research has found that if we do a
nod research has found that if we do a slow triple nod the other person speaks
slow triple nod the other person speaks 67%
67% longer so as an interview this is a
longer so as an interview this is a great cue watch so here's my my triple
great cue watch so here's my my triple not
not is we love it it's like a non-verbal dot
is we love it it's like a non-verbal dot dot dot it's like tell me more tell me
dot dot it's like tell me more tell me more now be careful don't bobblehead so
more now be careful don't bobblehead so you don't want to do it too much right
you don't want to do it too much right that's too high and warm and second you
that's too high and warm and second you don't want to do it too fast too fast of
don't want to do it too fast too fast of a triple nod is impatience it means shut
a triple nod is impatience it means shut up yeah so if you want someone to wrap
up yeah so if you want someone to wrap if you want someone to wrap a question
if you want someone to wrap a question yeah that that yeah that's that's
yeah that that yeah that's that's exactly right so here's for everyone
exactly right so here's for everyone watching here's
watching here's good here's please hurry
good here's please hurry up yeah that shut the up I've seen
up yeah that shut the up I've seen that before and it works it's a really
that before and it works it's a really nice way of saying Please rap please end
nice way of saying Please rap please end so I love a warm triple nod you have to
so I love a warm triple nod you have to be careful with it okay so that's cue
be careful with it okay so that's cue number one second a head tilt so
number one second a head tilt so universally if we're trying to hear
universally if we're trying to hear something we tilt our head up and we
something we tilt our head up and we expose our ear right we're we're as if
expose our ear right we're we're as if we're like What was that like dogs do
we're like What was that like dogs do this when they're like you know they
this when they're like you know they expose their ear humans also do this
expose their ear humans also do this across cultures because it's a it's kind
across cultures because it's a it's kind of a way that we're like oh I I'm
of a way that we're like oh I I'm listening to this research has found
listening to this research has found that if you deliver bad news with a head
that if you deliver bad news with a head tilt you are more likable so people take
tilt you are more likable so people take the news better if you deliver bad news
the news better if you deliver bad news with a SL head tilt because it literally
with a SL head tilt because it literally makes you look more warm it literally
makes you look more warm it literally makes you look like like you're
makes you look like like you're listening no I only want you to do this
listening no I only want you to do this when you're actually listening but a
when you're actually listening but a head tilt is also a way that you can
head tilt is also a way that you can slightly add warmth to your conversation
slightly add warmth to your conversation or to your interview or to your date not
or to your interview or to your date not too okay so we're going to go back to so
too okay so we're going to go back to so we don't want to go too far that looks
we don't want to go too far that looks weird a little weird right not too much
weird a little weird right not too much and um I also like to teach a head tilt
and um I also like to teach a head tilt to my highly warm folks who are Bobble
to my highly warm folks who are Bobble headers so if anyone if you're like oh I
headers so if anyone if you're like oh I do this a lot yeah I I'm a bobble header
do this a lot yeah I I'm a bobble header I'm a recovering Bobble header because I
I'm a recovering Bobble header because I like to people like me right so I'll
like to people like me right so I'll I'll nod too much if you are a bobble
I'll nod too much if you are a bobble header you can train yourself to replace
header you can train yourself to replace it with the head tilt because it's
it with the head tilt because it's physically impossible to head tilt while
physically impossible to head tilt while you nod so if you're a bobble header
you nod so if you're a bobble header just head tilt okay head tilt there's
just head tilt okay head tilt there's something about the head tilt which
something about the head tilt which makes me it signals they care yeah and
makes me it signals they care yeah and they they're empathetic yeah there's
they they're empathetic yeah there's some I don't know what it is about
some I don't know what it is about someone's head head tilt that cuz if
someone's head head tilt that cuz if someone was firing me and they were
someone was firing me and they were doing it like this I feel like they
doing it like this I feel like they don't care there's something Bress but
don't care there's something Bress but if they do it like this it's like you
if they do it like this it's like you really care about me that's so crazy
really care about me that's so crazy just such a small that one little thing
just such a small that one little thing you know that you mentioned the book The
you know that you mentioned the book The Game yes I know a lot about that world
Game yes I know a lot about that world and there's a there's a funny trick they
and there's a there's a funny trick they teach which I'll teach you it's not part
teach which I'll teach you it's not part of my warmth cues but I'm going to teach
of my warmth cues but I'm going to teach it to you because I think it's
it to you because I think it's interesting don't let don't let anyone
interesting don't let don't let anyone use this on you okay and nobody at home
use this on you okay and nobody at home used this on anyone else don't use this
used this on anyone else don't use this on anyone else but so there's this thing
on anyone else but so there's this thing that NLP people will do or uh pickup
that NLP people will do or uh pickup artists will do where they move their
artists will do where they move their hand like this and it Begins the other
hand like this and it Begins the other person will begin to nod because our
person will begin to nod because our typically when we do this with our hand
typically when we do this with our hand the other person starts to nod which
the other person starts to nod which makes you think I agree I agree I agree
makes you think I agree I agree I agree what are you doing for anyone that it's
what are you doing for anyone that it's I'm moving my hand up and down in a
I'm moving my hand up and down in a nodding yes motion and so what what I've
nodding yes motion and so what what I've noticed very manipulative people will do
noticed very manipulative people will do is they'll be doing this as they speak
is they'll be doing this as they speak like don't you understand what I'm
like don't you understand what I'm saying do you get this and the other
saying do you get this and the other person will start to nod and I've seen
person will start to nod and I've seen audiences entire audience will start
audiences entire audience will start nodding and then you think to yourself
nodding and then you think to yourself well I'm nodding so I must agree with
well I'm nodding so I must agree with this person it's a secret way to get
this person it's a secret way to get someone to secretly agree with you so
someone to secretly agree with you so just be careful make sure no one uses
just be careful make sure no one uses that on
that on you and you're doing it in a bit of a
you and you're doing it in a bit of a circular motion it looks like it's not
circular motion it looks like it's not straight up and down you're just kind of
straight up and down you're just kind of like anyone that can't see she's like
like anyone that can't see she's like we're rolling something forward and then
we're rolling something forward and then you're like I want to it's really hard
you're like I want to it's really hard to not Nodge your head when someone's
to not Nodge your head when someone's doing this which then makes you feel
doing this which then makes you feel like you agree with them that's so crazy
like you agree with them that's so crazy it's like you you've got like a string
it's like you you've got like a string on my head a string on your it's very
on my head a string on your it's very weird so don't let anyone do that to you
weird so don't let anyone do that to you and don't use it don't use it on anyone
and don't use it don't use it on anyone I don't teach it in my books because
I don't teach it in my books because it's like I'm worried that you it's too
it's like I'm worried that you it's too powerful it's too powerful okay triple
powerful it's too powerful okay triple nod head tilt one and two okay third we
nod head tilt one and two okay third we already talked about this one a
already talked about this one a authentic smile right a smile that
authentic smile right a smile that reaches all the way up into your eyes
reaches all the way up into your eyes highly warm people typically do do that
highly warm people typically do do that authentic smile more now I don't like a
authentic smile more now I don't like a fake smile so I only want you to do it
fake smile so I only want you to do it when you're
when you're authentic about that was my authentic
authentic about that was my authentic you laughed this is why I don't smile
you laughed this is why I don't smile this is why people think I'm
this is why people think I'm intimidating because people laugh at my
intimidating because people laugh at my spet that's good that was better that
spet that's good that was better that was better I can tell you're lying Mrs
was better I can tell you're lying Mrs body language I can tell you're lying
body language I can tell you're lying that was better that was better than the
that was better that was better than the first one better than the first one that
first one better than the first one that does mean it's good I'm looking for good
does mean it's good I'm looking for good anyway number four is uh so authentic
anyway number four is uh so authentic smells number three authentic smells
smells number three authentic smells number three number four we love a lean
number three number four we love a lean oh we love a lean when in the proxic
oh we love a lean when in the proxic zones right we're in those four zones if
zones right we're in those four zones if someone's leaning into you it shows
someone's leaning into you it shows they're literally trying to cross into
they're literally trying to cross into that zone very very subtly and so you'll
that zone very very subtly and so you'll notice very highly charismatic people
notice very highly charismatic people who you want to be friends with they'll
who you want to be friends with they'll be like tell me more tell me everything
be like tell me more tell me everything and they lean in really close to you and
and they lean in really close to you and that makes you also feel closer so if
that makes you also feel closer so if you want to be seen as high and warmth
you want to be seen as high and warmth you can do this as a speaker so you can
you can do this as a speaker so you can lean in as you bold an important Point
lean in as you bold an important Point like when I'm making an important point
like when I'm making an important point for you I lean into it I'm like listen
for you I lean into it I'm like listen to this this is good but if I'm
to this this is good but if I'm listening to you and you say something
listening to you and you say something good I'll be like what really MH so you
good I'll be like what really MH so you can do it as a speaker and as a listener
can do it as a speaker and as a listener and it immediately adds more warmth it's
and it immediately adds more warmth it's funny okay this might be a little bit of
funny okay this might be a little bit of a tangent but it just came to mind as
a tangent but it just came to mind as you were speaking there are like the odd
you were speaking there are like the odd person in my life who I've known for
person in my life who I've known for many many years but whenever I'm around
many many years but whenever I'm around them it kind of goes back to what I was
them it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier
my body is just off and like I just don't know what it is like I'm thinking
don't know what it is like I'm thinking of one particular person I sh name where
of one particular person I sh name where I could be in a room full of people and
I could be in a room full of people and I'm relaxed I'm calm whatever and this
I'm relaxed I'm calm whatever and this person who I've known for many many
person who I've known for many many years the minute they arrived in the
years the minute they arrived in the room I wouldn't be able to be the same
room I wouldn't be able to be the same person and I don't know what it is like
person and I don't know what it is like my I'd suddenly start think overthinking
my I'd suddenly start think overthinking my body language and I'd start start
my body language and I'd start start thinking it's how as my legs and it's my
thinking it's how as my legs and it's my body and I'd start covering blocking a
body and I'd start covering blocking a little bit what is what is that trying
little bit what is what is that trying to tell me do I need to cut this person
to tell me do I need to cut this person out my life is there is there like Words
out my life is there is there like Words unspoken what is it I would say it means
unspoken what is it I would say it means do more research I I think that gut
do more research I I think that gut feelings are incredibly important
feelings are incredibly important because you know the best queue reading
because you know the best queue reading machine we have is our subconscious
machine we have is our subconscious right our our subconscious or
right our our subconscious or unconscious picking up on lots of cues
unconscious picking up on lots of cues that we can't consciously know we can't
that we can't consciously know we can't consciously know that we're smelling
consciously know that we're smelling adrenaline but we are smelling it so I
adrenaline but we are smelling it so I think that's a very important thing to
think that's a very important thing to pay attention to it doesn't mean you
pay attention to it doesn't mean you should cut them out but I think it's
should cut them out but I think it's time to do more research are they truly
time to do more research are they truly happy for you are they truly rooting for
happy for you are they truly rooting for you are they secretly angry or jealous
you are they secretly angry or jealous maybe I'm doing it to them it's possible
maybe I'm doing it to them it's possible that you're in a loop with them right
that you're in a loop with them right like you're expecting that bad thing and
like you're expecting that bad thing and that expectation becomes reality like
that expectation becomes reality like they've studied this that the pigan
they've studied this that the pigan effect is real if you expect not to like
effect is real if you expect not to like someone you send off more unlikable cues
someone you send off more unlikable cues they feel unliked and so they don't like
they feel unliked and so they don't like you either and so it could be that
you either and so it could be that you're in a loop with this person that
you're in a loop with this person that maybe you make them feel the same way
maybe you make them feel the same way what do I have to do then when next time
what do I have to do then when next time I see them cuz I want to dial up I don't
I see them cuz I want to dial up I don't know some warmth with this person or
know some warmth with this person or something or break that cycle okay if I
something or break that cycle okay if I were you they're they're important to
were you they're they're important to you yeah they're important to me okay so
you yeah they're important to me okay so I would recommend asking questions that
I would recommend asking questions that will level you up with them to level two
will level you up with them to level two so my guess is you might be stuck in
so my guess is you might be stuck in level one with them because you're
level one with them because you're obviously uncomfortable with them
obviously uncomfortable with them research shows that the more
research shows that the more commonalities we have someone the more
commonalities we have someone the more that we understand them the more
that we understand them the more compassion we have with them the more
compassion we have with them the more that we like someone so I wonder if we
that we like someone so I wonder if we could level up your Rel relationship
could level up your Rel relationship with them so you get to know them better
with them so you get to know them better which means you'll like them more and if
which means you'll like them more and if you you make it through these six or
you you make it through these six or seven questions and you still don't like
seven questions and you still don't like them then maybe they're not your person
them then maybe they're not your person okay okay can I give you some questions
okay okay can I give you some questions for them please okay please so here my
for them please okay please so here my favorite um I call these level one level
favorite um I call these level one level two level three questions in the
two level three questions in the framework that I'm researching right now
framework that I'm researching right now it's not done yet I have four questions
it's not done yet I have four questions for each level and I'm working through
for each level and I'm working through these questions but here are the
these questions but here are the questions that I think are the the
questions that I think are the the shortcut to connection okay that if you
shortcut to connection okay that if you ask these questions with your partner
ask these questions with your partner your friend colleagues you're going to
your friend colleagues you're going to level up with them okay
level up with them okay first are you working on anything
first are you working on anything exciting recently
exciting recently so stop asking what do you do stop
so stop asking what do you do stop asking how are you stop asking how's it
asking how are you stop asking how's it going that's why you hate people if
going that's why you hate people if you're asking those questions of course
you're asking those questions of course you're going to hate people those are
you're going to hate people those are the most boring questions anyone's ever
the most boring questions anyone's ever asked can I give you a challenge a
asked can I give you a challenge a challenge here's one Challenge from this
challenge here's one Challenge from this podcast stop asking what do you do for
podcast stop asking what do you do for 30 days I want you to go on a what do
30 days I want you to go on a what do you do diet asking what do you do is
you do diet asking what do you do is telling the person's brain stay on
telling the person's brain stay on autopilot d i a last night no no more
autopilot d i a last night no no more we're on a diet okay also asking someone
we're on a diet okay also asking someone what do you do is asking what are you
what do you do is asking what are you worth and if someone's not defined by
worth and if someone's not defined by what they do it's actually a rude
what they do it's actually a rude question do you know what you're so
question do you know what you're so right I it's so funny you say this
right I it's so funny you say this because yesterday I went to this thing
because yesterday I went to this thing in New York right and I was introducing
in New York right and I was introducing myself to some people and there was one
myself to some people and there was one particular person who I went over to and
particular person who I went over to and we were having a conversation and
we were having a conversation and halfway through the conversation I went
halfway through the conversation I went so what' you do and do you know what
so what' you do and do you know what they replied they went this and I just I
they replied they went this and I just I went home thinking about it like I was
went home thinking about it like I was like I was like of course we're
like I was like of course we're at work like I bet what I've done there
at work like I bet what I've done there is I've just belittled what we're doing
is I've just belittled what we're doing right now as if it couldn't possibly
right now as if it couldn't possibly have been what they do right and I just
have been what they do right and I just I I honestly I got in bed last night
I I honestly I got in bed last night thinking about I thought oh God I do you
thinking about I thought oh God I do you know what it was I think I was so
know what it was I think I was so impressed by them that I was a bit
impressed by them that I was a bit awkward yeah and then that just came out
awkward yeah and then that just came out mid sentence what you do yeah God okay
mid sentence what you do yeah God okay so we're going on a diet everyone from
so we're going on a diet everyone from the next 30 days we're going on a diet
the next 30 days we're going on a diet no more what do you do you're going to
no more what do you do you're going to replace it with working on anything
replace it with working on anything exciting these days or working on
exciting these days or working on anything exciting recent
anything exciting recent this is permission connection you ask
this is permission connection you ask someone that question you are giving
someone that question you are giving them permission if they want to tell you
them permission if they want to tell you about what they do oh they will M if
about what they do oh they will M if they are not Define about what they do
they are not Define about what they do they'll tell you something better and
they'll tell you something better and that also gives you really good nuggets
that also gives you really good nuggets for the next time you see them when you
for the next time you see them when you can say hey how was that thing you were
can say hey how was that thing you were working on that was really exciting
working on that was really exciting going so start with working on anything
going so start with working on anything exciting these days working on anything
exciting these days working on anything exciting right now second what's your
exciting right now second what's your biggest goal right now so if you can
biggest goal right now so if you can especially as we go into the new year or
especially as we go into the new year or in the new year right being part of year
in the new year right being part of year I love I ask this question in December
I love I ask this question in December January and February I ask everyone
January and February I ask everyone what's your biggest goal right now
what's your biggest goal right now what's your big goal for
what's your big goal for 2025 when you ask this question you're
2025 when you ask this question you're going to get one of two responses one
going to get one of two responses one someone shuts you down I don't believe
someone shuts you down I don't believe in goals not my person not my person I'm
in goals not my person not my person I'm a growth-minded person if someone says
a growth-minded person if someone says that I'm like cool peace we're not going
that I'm like cool peace we're not going to get along very well because I have a
to get along very well because I have a lot of goals or they're going to be like
lot of goals or they're going to be like oh let me tell you and they're going to
oh let me tell you and they're going to tell you all about goals that's also a
tell you all about goals that's also a great thing you can follow up on because
great thing you can follow up on because then when you see see them a month later
then when you see see them a month later or a week later or a year later you can
or a week later or a year later you can be like hey how did that how did that go
be like hey how did that how did that go it's a great interview question it's a
it's a great interview question it's a great I was just thinking that I should
great I was just thinking that I should ask people that in the interview because
ask people that in the interview because Trad yeah because you're right someone
Trad yeah because you're right someone that can't articulate some kind of goal
that can't articulate some kind of goal is probably not my kind of person those
is probably not my kind of person those kind of people that go this actually
kind of people that go this actually those kind of people don't listen to
those kind of people don't listen to this podcast anyway they just leave
this podcast anyway they just leave comments and up like yeah exactly
comments and up like yeah exactly so like it's a very um I call those
so like it's a very um I call those allergy questions interesting it's a way
allergy questions interesting it's a way to see are we going to have an allergic
to see are we going to have an allergic reaction each other it creates an
reaction each other it creates an allergy like I know there's a type of
allergy like I know there's a type of person it susses them out really quickly
person it susses them out really quickly and that's not my kind of person okay so
and that's not my kind of person okay so working anything exciting what's your
working anything exciting what's your goal right now and then this is harder
goal right now and then this is harder this is a self-narrative question do we
this is a self-narrative question do we want to go deeper for a self-narrative
want to go deeper for a self-narrative question of course we want to go
that so if we're getting into self- narrative and you're trying to figure
narrative and you're trying to figure out yourself or someone else's narrative
out yourself or someone else's narrative you want to ask the question it sounds
you want to ask the question it sounds innocuous but it's not what book movie
innocuous but it's not what book movie or TV character is most like you and why
or TV character is most like you and why it's kind of a silly like dinner party
it's kind of a silly like dinner party question it's like sort of sounds casual
question it's like sort of sounds casual but the answer to this question is so
but the answer to this question is so incredibly important and here's an
incredibly important and here's an example how someone relates to
example how someone relates to characters their values or personality
characters their values or personality is how they see themselves and people's
is how they see themselves and people's answers will shock you I'll give you one
answers will shock you I'll give you one example I was friends with someone for
example I was friends with someone for six years one of my closest friends saw
six years one of my closest friends saw them all the time weekends we went on ad
them all the time weekends we went on ad together we went on weekend trips
together we went on weekend trips together I thought I knew her so well I
together I thought I knew her so well I was like I know her I asked her this
was like I know her I asked her this question and I hypothesize this is all
question and I hypothesize this is all my research for my next book I was like
my research for my next book I was like I hypothesize she's a mom of three super
I hypothesize she's a mom of three super funny super Savvy I was like she's going
funny super Savvy I was like she's going to pick a great like TV mom character
to pick a great like TV mom character you know that that that's super Savvy
you know that that that's super Savvy and funny asked her she thinks about it
and funny asked her she thinks about it for maybe one second and goes catniss
for maybe one second and goes catniss everines from the from the Hunger
everines from the from the Hunger Games I was like the one who's like
Games I was like the one who's like fighting for her life she's like yeah
fighting for her life she's like yeah that's how I feel every day and we for
that's how I feel every day and we for the first time in six years had a
the first time in six years had a conversation about how she feels about
conversation about how she feels about her day that was totally different than
her day that was totally different than anything I had ever known that she feels
anything I had ever known that she feels scared and lonely and that she is
scared and lonely and that she is fighting for survival and it was the
fighting for survival and it was the first time that I truly connected with
first time that I truly connected with her I cannot tell you how many times the
her I cannot tell you how many times the answer to this question has changed for
answer to this question has changed for people in my life and I'm like careful
people in my life and I'm like careful which examples to use because I'm
which examples to use because I'm worried that they're going to be
worried that they're going to be watching but has changed my relationship
watching but has changed my relationship with people in my life based on how they
with people in my life based on how they see themselves not how I see them but
see themselves not how I see them but how they see themselves it's really
how they see themselves it's really interesting
interesting because there's so many people listening
because there's so many people listening right now that now doing
right now that now doing that and they're discovering maybe for
that and they're discovering maybe for the first time even how they see
the first time even how they see themselves because it's funny because
themselves because it's funny because when you said that obviously I did it in
when you said that obviously I did it in my head and I was like
my head and I was like well now I want to know what it is
well now I want to know what it is you like stereotypically no I'll tell
you like stereotypically no I'll tell you now I was thinking it's funny cuz
you now I was thinking it's funny cuz the first person I thought of was Will
the first person I thought of was Will Smith because people say I look like him
Smith because people say I look like him sometimes right like people you have to
sometimes right like people you have to correct someone if someone says who they
correct someone if someone says who they look like you say no no look like Valu
look like you say no no look like Valu personality but then when I thought
personality but then when I thought about TV characters I actually thought
about TV characters I actually thought about Will Smith in the P of happiness
about Will Smith in the P of happiness and if you think about his journey he
and if you think about his journey he was broke and he was fighting really
was broke and he was fighting really hard to get out of that situation and he
hard to get out of that situation and he got out of that situation so it goes
got out of that situation so it goes back to the personality type you
back to the personality type you described at the beginning where like
described at the beginning where like you hero of your own Journey like where
you hero of your own Journey like where you've overcome something and you that's
you've overcome something and you that's kind of yeah and do you feel you found
kind of yeah and do you feel you found it found um found it happiness
it found um found it happiness are you at the end of the movie I'm at
are you at the end of the movie I'm at the end of the
the end of the movie
movie um I don't know if you can ever get to
um I don't know if you can ever get to the end of the movie that's the
the end of the movie that's the struggling with that question because
struggling with that question because there's like I think I found it but I've
there's like I think I found it but I've always I don't know like not the end of
always I don't know like not the end of your movie it's not the end of your life
your movie it's not the end of your life movie but like in that example we could
movie but like in that example we could have a long discussion about like what
have a long discussion about like what what is have you made it so the reason
what is have you made it so the reason why I think I'm hesitating is because I
why I think I'm hesitating is because I think I think to myself if if I say I've
think I think to myself if if I say I've made it or I'm at the end of the movie
made it or I'm at the end of the movie then I'm like it kind of robs me of the
then I'm like it kind of robs me of the future in a weird way in my head it's
future in a weird way in my head it's like robbing me of like doing anything
like robbing me of like doing anything else with my future no because what I
else with my future no because what I mean yeah yes yes if you feel like the
mean yeah yes yes if you feel like the end of the movie I'm like oh God like
end of the movie I'm like oh God like yes no that's true you're never at the
yes no that's true you're never at the end of the movie but like if you feel
end of the movie but like if you feel that you've made it it means you have
that you've made it it means you have freedom to pursue things and do work for
freedom to pursue things and do work for meaning as opposed to hitting it yeah of
meaning as opposed to hitting it yeah of course yeah like I used to work in call
course yeah like I used to work in call centers at nighttime selling hotel rooms
centers at nighttime selling hotel rooms and car insurance and artificial grass
and car insurance and artificial grass and now I get to sit here and have
and now I get to sit here and have conversations with people like you and
conversations with people like you and like people tune in and stuff it's like
like people tune in and stuff it's like if I don't realize at this moment how
if I don't realize at this moment how much um how much privilege I have I
much um how much privilege I have I think I'd be I'd be pretty up so
think I'd be I'd be pretty up so yeah I do feel like disproportion like
yeah I do feel like disproportion like unbelievably fortunate in a way that I
unbelievably fortunate in a way that I actually don't think I can understand I
actually don't think I can understand I think maybe I dreamed of this but to to
think maybe I dreamed of this but to to be here feels
be here feels um feels suspicious
um feels suspicious suspicious yeah there a strange word
suspicious yeah there a strange word that came to mind yes it feels
that came to mind yes it feels suspicious because
suspicious because it I don't know you just think you just
it I don't know you just think you just think sometimes you think are you worri
think sometimes you think are you worri it's maybe it is worri but it's also
it's maybe it is worri but it's also just
just like surely not like it's so so
like surely not like it's so so interesting because I had the dream of
interesting because I had the dream of like being successful in business but I
like being successful in business but I didn't have a dream of or ever imagine
didn't have a dream of or ever imagine that my life would be like this where
that my life would be like this where like people know who you are I never had
like people know who you are I never had that dream never imagined it being
that dream never imagined it being possible that was other people for sure
possible that was other people for sure and so also I I that's a very
and so also I I that's a very accurate like that's how I think of Will
accurate like that's how I think of Will Smith in the pursuit of happiness a
Smith in the pursuit of happiness a little bit is like you never really see
little bit is like you never really see him truly happy in that movie no he's
him truly happy in that movie no he's always just yeah running like that's
always just yeah running like that's something that I that's why I asked like
something that I that's why I asked like did you get it you know you've pursued
did you get it you know you've pursued it you're here of course I'm so chasing
it you're here of course I'm so chasing off to something on that's what I think
off to something on that's what I think I can H I don't know what I'm chasing I
I can H I don't know what I'm chasing I wonder what you're chasing after I don't
wonder what you're chasing after I don't know actually don't know but I think
know actually don't know but I think that you're interviewing for something
that you're interviewing for something like when I watch your interviews which
like when I watch your interviews which are amazing I'm like he's trying to find
are amazing I'm like he's trying to find the answer to something what is it
the answer to something what is it always like with every person is a
always like with every person is a different thing and actually most of the
different thing and actually most of the answers I'm looking for my own answers
answers I'm looking for my own answers and my general belief is that if I like
and my general belief is that if I like authentically go in search of my own
authentically go in search of my own answers which requires some level of
answers which requires some level of like being open and willing to be uh
like being open and willing to be uh open even though there's a lot of people
open even though there's a lot of people watching then there'll be lots of other
watching then there'll be lots of other people out there that are struggling
people out there that are struggling with the same things or searching for
with the same things or searching for the same answers as well yes this
the same answers as well yes this interesting I do ask myself a lot what
interesting I do ask myself a lot what am I like what's the point like what am
am I like what's the point like what am I like what am I but is it not the this
I like what am I but is it not the this is a bit of a tangent obviously is it
is a bit of a tangent obviously is it not the case that we should all be
not the case that we should all be searching
searching forever like we should all be p in
forever like we should all be p in pursuit of something forever I do love a
pursuit of something forever I do love a quest and I love pursuing and I think
quest and I love pursuing and I think humans are built to pursue things but I
humans are built to pursue things but I also think I hope I'm not here yet I'm
also think I hope I'm not here yet I'm getting there that there's a point in
getting there that there's a point in our life where we can stop the grind
our life where we can stop the grind like I think I'm grinding a little bit
like I think I'm grinding a little bit in my career I don't know if you feel
in my career I don't know if you feel like that like I've made it I feel like
like that like I've made it I feel like I've made it i' luckier than I ever I
I've made it i' luckier than I ever I can't believe I get paid to do what I do
can't believe I get paid to do what I do but I'm still pursuing uing I hope
but I'm still pursuing uing I hope there's a point in my life where I can
there's a point in my life where I can just be sharing wisdom where I'm not
just be sharing wisdom where I'm not pursuing anything it's not a number or a
pursuing anything it's not a number or a list or it's just like all I'm doing is
list or it's just like all I'm doing is sharing wi wisdom and giving out public
sharing wi wisdom and giving out public education like I think that I'm hopeful
education like I think that I'm hopeful there's a stage of our life where it's
there's a stage of our life where it's just that it's number five on the one
just that it's number five on the one did Lean which was number four number
did Lean which was number four number five is actually I have to pause on lean
five is actually I have to pause on lean because I wanted to ask you about
because I wanted to ask you about something I read in a book um about
something I read in a book um about peacocking yes so I read read in this
peacocking yes so I read read in this pickup artist book that I read when I
pickup artist book that I read when I was 18 and some of the videos that I
was 18 and some of the videos that I watched thereafter and some of the other
watched thereafter and some of the other books that I read thereafter and some of
books that I read thereafter and some of the other videos I watched thereafter um
the other videos I watched thereafter um about this concept of peacocking where
about this concept of peacocking where you can if you're like on a date or
you can if you're like on a date or you're interested in a girl or a guy in
you're interested in a girl or a guy in a bar if you lean in too much you
a bar if you lean in too much you signaling low value and like overin and
signaling low value and like overin and ever since I learned that I've I've seen
ever since I learned that I've I've seen it everywhere and I've seen it in my
it everywhere and I've seen it in my friends me and my friends went to like
friends me and my friends went to like Mar or somewhere I can't remember it was
Mar or somewhere I can't remember it was many many years ago and there was this
many many years ago and there was this beautiful girl there and we were all
beautiful girl there and we were all pursuing her yes like that like a
pursuing her yes like that like a labrador yeah um and I was saying to my
labrador yeah um and I was saying to my boys there's actually a photo of it on
boys there's actually a photo of it on my phone there me dman and my friend Ash
my phone there me dman and my friend Ash sat there and we're looking over our
sat there and we're looking over our some of our other friends and we're
some of our other friends and we're saying they're peacocking they got no
saying they're peacocking they got no chance and that's how the story
chance and that's how the story transpired and then when this beautiful
transpired and then when this beautiful girl came over to my other friend he was
girl came over to my other friend he was aware of this peacocking thing he kept
aware of this peacocking thing he kept his his neck back he kept his chest back
his his neck back he kept his chest back all these kinds of things he didn't lean
all these kinds of things he didn't lean in even though it was loud and closed
in even though it was loud and closed closed okay here's why
closed okay here's why too much of a lean is bad thing it's
too much of a lean is bad thing it's called a bow right if you lean too far
called a bow right if you lean too far over you get very quickly into bowing or
over you get very quickly into bowing or submissive Behavior we don't like people
submissive Behavior we don't like people who are submissive to us we want equals
who are submissive to us we want equals and so you're absolutely right what it's
and so you're absolutely right what it's what triggers in the brain if you're
what triggers in the brain if you're leaning too much is literally I am
leaning too much is literally I am subservient to you and that makes
subservient to you and that makes someone who does not want to be in
someone who does not want to be in control or in an unequal relationship
control or in an unequal relationship feel very uneasy so that is why too much
feel very uneasy so that is why too much of a lean always with these non-verbal
of a lean always with these non-verbal accusers too much of a a good thing you
accusers too much of a a good thing you lean too much it's a considerer a bow
lean too much it's a considerer a bow you also don't want to lean the entire
you also don't want to lean the entire time CU then you look like a hunchback
time CU then you look like a hunchback right I'm laring my value by leaning in
right I'm laring my value by leaning in too much and it's distracting like I
too much and it's distracting like I want to lean in as a bold or a highlight
want to lean in as a bold or a highlight if I were to be reading a book and
if I were to be reading a book and highlight the entire page the Highlight
highlight the entire page the Highlight means nothing MH if you lean in when
means nothing MH if you lean in when someone's like what really and then I
someone's like what really and then I lean back then it's powerful every
lean back then it's powerful every single one of these cues we are using as
single one of these cues we are using as a bold or an emphasis or a highlight
a bold or an emphasis or a highlight just enough of a good thing
just enough of a good thing okay not too much leaning just use it as
okay not too much leaning just use it as a party trick like a no no I mean no I
a party trick like a no no I mean no I mean just use it like as a highlighter
mean just use it like as a highlighter as a highlighter you're highlighting yes
as a highlighter you're highlighting yes yes yes number five okay five non-verbal
yes yes number five okay five non-verbal Bridge so this is a concept that I
Bridge so this is a concept that I learned um on the road so I I saw this
learned um on the road so I I saw this in action in a lot of our experiments we
in action in a lot of our experiments we did a big big speed networking
did a big big speed networking experiment in our lab where we had 500
experiment in our lab where we had 500 speed networkers try out different
speed networkers try out different conversation starters we've recorded
conversation starters we've recorded them we coded their conversations and we
them we coded their conversations and we looked for patterns of good and bad
looked for patterns of good and bad conversations and we found there were
conversations and we found there were certain questions that worked better
certain questions that worked better than others and there were certain
than others and there were certain questions did terribly and one thing we
questions did terribly and one thing we found is that when people rated a
found is that when people rated a conversation on a five scale like five
conversation on a five scale like five amazing best conversation I had we're
amazing best conversation I had we're going to connect on LinkedIn I think I
going to connect on LinkedIn I think I like them the best ones they used a lot
like them the best ones they used a lot of non-verbal Bridges non-verbal bridges
of non-verbal Bridges non-verbal bridges are when someone is trying to bridge the
are when someone is trying to bridge the distance between you so that could be a
distance between you so that could be a lean lean is one of them but it also
lean lean is one of them but it also could be a reach out we noticed that in
could be a reach out we noticed that in the good conversations people people
the good conversations people people were trying to physically close the
were trying to physically close the distance between them with hand gestures
distance between them with hand gestures with leans with nods with foot movement
with leans with nods with foot movement with drinks and when they were close
with drinks and when they were close enough they would often do very light
enough they would often do very light touches on the arms on the shoulder so
touches on the arms on the shoulder so have you seen this like on a really good
have you seen this like on a really good date have you ever been in a restaurant
date have you ever been in a restaurant like my husband and I like to play this
like my husband and I like to play this game where we look and we try to guess
game where we look and we try to guess if a couple is very like new couple old
if a couple is very like new couple old couple how they're doing in a very good
couple how they're doing in a very good day they are looking for as many
day they are looking for as many opportunities to touch as they possibly
opportunities to touch as they possibly can that's non-verbal Bridge even if I
can that's non-verbal Bridge even if I were to be like oh let me tell you
were to be like oh let me tell you something like that slight Reach Out tap
something like that slight Reach Out tap of the knuckles to of the arm that's a
of the knuckles to of the arm that's a quick saying I'm going to reach into
quick saying I'm going to reach into your intimate Zone but I'm not going
your intimate Zone but I'm not going into your intimate Zone and really good
into your intimate Zone and really good relationships really warm people are
relationships really warm people are those they are bridging all the time
those they are bridging all the time they walk by you they touch your
they walk by you they touch your shoulder they say how's it going hey I
shoulder they say how's it going hey I want to thinking about you like they're
want to thinking about you like they're constantly doing these very small
constantly doing these very small Bridges and that couldn't might not be
Bridges and that couldn't might not be actual a physical touch it could even be
actual a physical touch it could even be the the look of a touch like one thing
the the look of a touch like one thing that I teach my students who are
that I teach my students who are uncomfortable with touch is you can even
uncomfortable with touch is you can even touch without touching that sounds
touch without touching that sounds really weird but like put your arm
really weird but like put your arm closer to me so I can demo it for you so
closer to me so I can demo it for you so like pretend that we're a dinner I could
like pretend that we're a dinner I could be like oh my gosh really okay so you
be like oh my gosh really okay so you didn't touch me my hand but it did the
didn't touch me my hand but it did the same thing yeah not quite oxy did yeah
same thing yeah not quite oxy did yeah but kind you like I get it yeah she's
but kind you like I get it yeah she's trying to close the intimacy of the
trying to close the intimacy of the distance so non-verbal Bridges trying to
distance so non-verbal Bridges trying to reach out reach into someone's space
reach out reach into someone's space very briefly and come back trying to
very briefly and come back trying to lean into someone's face very briefly
lean into someone's face very briefly this is why giving people things or
this is why giving people things or serving people is such a warm thing you
serving people is such a warm thing you hand someone a drink like you come to my
hand someone a drink like you come to my office I offer you hot hot chocolate I
office I offer you hot hot chocolate I offer you tacos I want to break the
offer you tacos I want to break the social scripts I want to give you
social scripts I want to give you something different and I'm looking for
something different and I'm looking for reasons to serve you you give people
reasons to serve you you give people tacos at your office yeah I'm in Austin
tacos at your office yeah I'm in Austin Texas
Texas strange you would like it you would like
strange you would like it you would like it if you were hungry you'd be like give
it if you were hungry you'd be like give me that taco give me that taco it's what
me that taco give me that taco it's what I don't know if that's office food but
I don't know if that's office food but each to their own um so hugging and
each to their own um so hugging and stuff like that you know there's this
stuff like that you know there's this thing that people talk a lot about which
thing that people talk a lot about which is awkward hugging and sometimes you hug
is awkward hugging and sometimes you hug someone and you just feel like oh they
someone and you just feel like oh they didn't like that I didn't like that that
didn't like that I didn't like that that was bad for both of us yeah horrible can
was bad for both of us yeah horrible can we address the hug issue please okay you
we address the hug issue please okay you need to Signal what kind of greeting you
need to Signal what kind of greeting you want from the moment someone first sees
want from the moment someone first sees you you can stop awkward greetings from
you you can stop awkward greetings from happening with simple non-verbal cues
happening with simple non-verbal cues here's what they are you want a
here's what they are you want a handshake so good to see you I want you
handshake so good to see you I want you to be doing this from 10 feet away so
to be doing this from 10 feet away so good to see you I'll come in with it
good to see you I'll come in with it yeah you're literally signaling to
yeah you're literally signaling to someone up so good to see you right this
someone up so good to see you right this immediately signals their brain don't
immediately signals their brain don't try to give me an awkward hug don't side
try to give me an awkward hug don't side hug me don't hug me we're hand shaking
hug me don't hug me we're hand shaking it is a very clear way to be like it's
it is a very clear way to be like it's called blading so we angle our body a
called blading so we angle our body a little bit forward and we put one hand
little bit forward and we put one hand out you know I'm coming in for a
out you know I'm coming in for a handshake if you want a hug and you're a
handshake if you want a hug and you're a hugger it's so good to see you it's so
hugger it's so good to see you it's so good to see you okay arms out arms out
good to see you okay arms out arms out and that's also going to prevent
and that's also going to prevent the awkward side hug the worst thing you
the awkward side hug the worst thing you can do is like this which is a kind of
can do is like this which is a kind of but what but one arm up people are like
but what but one arm up people are like do I shake it do I side hug are we going
do I shake it do I side hug are we going to are we going to hug are we going to
to are we going to hug are we going to high five are we going to fist bump if
high five are we going to fist bump if you want a fist bump you're coming in
you want a fist bump you're coming in with a fist bump from very hugger cuz I
with a fist bump from very hugger cuz I don't always it context dependent I do
don't always it context dependent I do not like hugging people when I first
not like hugging people when I first meet meet them I was pitching a TV show
meet meet them I was pitching a TV show about recovering awkward people at a
about recovering awkward people at a very big Network and I walk into the
very big Network and I walk into the pitch room and at that point I was a
pitch room and at that point I was a hugger or I was I thought I should hug
hugger or I was I thought I should hug because that was one of thing it's in la
because that was one of thing it's in la la people are Huggers and cheat kissers
la people are Huggers and cheat kissers a lot and so I was like I walk into say
a lot and so I was like I walk into say oh it's so nice to meet you I'm a hugger
oh it's so nice to meet you I'm a hugger oh yeah and then Z goes I'm not oh
oh yeah and then Z goes I'm not oh just cringe oh God just I died inside I
just cringe oh God just I died inside I died inside and you know what that pitch
died inside and you know what that pitch went terribly do I have a TV show called
went terribly do I have a TV show called recovering awkward person no I don't
recovering awkward person no I don't that's cuz I think I hugged him and I
that's cuz I think I hugged him and I went forward with it too much warmth too
went forward with it too much warmth too much warmth not enough
much warmth not enough competence and so I will never do that
competence and so I will never do that again so now I never ever say I'm a
again so now I never ever say I'm a hugger and I always offer my hand now if
hugger and I always offer my hand now if someone says to me oh but I'm a hugger
someone says to me oh but I'm a hugger and they wave my hand away no problem no
and they wave my hand away no problem no problem that's interesting if we take
problem that's interesting if we take that back to the Charisma framework of
that back to the Charisma framework of warmth and competence it is signaling a
warmth and competence it is signaling a little bit too much a lot of warmth it's
little bit too much a lot of warmth it's a lot of warmth and I know a lot about a
a lot of warmth and I know a lot about a person when they tell me I'm a hugger
person when they tell me I'm a hugger what you know go high warm High warmth
what you know go high warm High warmth probably a people pleaser overeager
probably a people pleaser overeager really want to connect probably feel
really want to connect probably feel lonely a little bit afraid and I want to
lonely a little bit afraid and I want to make them feel as liked as
make them feel as liked as possible gosh that's a lot just from
possible gosh that's a lot just from that one sentence I've hugged a lot of
that one sentence I've hugged a lot of people no it is also I you know I have
people no it is also I you know I have amazing students you know we have
amazing students you know we have millions of views on our YouTube channel
millions of views on our YouTube channel and they feel like they know me and so
and they feel like they know me and so if they want to hug me I'm totally okay
if they want to hug me I'm totally okay with it because I've been in their bed
with it because I've been in their bed I've been in their living room I've been
I've been in their living room I've been in their kitchen TV on their phone I've
in their kitchen TV on their phone I've shared my stories with them and I
shared my stories with them and I understand why they want to hug me
understand why they want to hug me because we feel like friends and that
because we feel like friends and that actually is a compliment and you like it
actually is a compliment and you like it I do like it like when a student says oh
I do like it like when a student says oh my gosh I love you I love Captivate I'm
my gosh I love you I love Captivate I'm like come
like come here it feels like a friend so on the
here it feels like a friend so on the hugging point then as well is there like
hugging point then as well is there like is there a great way to hug someone I
is there a great way to hug someone I mean yeah how how is that have you been
mean yeah how how is that have you been told you're a good hugger because then
told you're a good hugger because then you might not be I've tried to work on
you might not be I've tried to work on it so I think I think I am now okay I
it so I think I think I am now okay I actually have been told I am okay but
actually have been told I am okay but it's it's part of the reason why is
it's it's part of the reason why is because I've learned a lot from doing
because I've learned a lot from doing this podcast and someone told me don't
this podcast and someone told me don't tap on the back don't tap on the back
tap on the back don't tap on the back and they told me to like we don't like
and they told me to like we don't like being tapped on the head we don't like
being tapped on the head we don't like being tapped on the back it's a
being tapped on the back it's a submissive cue right it's like you
submissive cue right it's like you you'll notice um Power Players in
you'll notice um Power Players in politics Will sometimes deme someone by
politics Will sometimes deme someone by going hey bud yeah yeah yeah it's so we
going hey bud yeah yeah yeah it's so we yeah definitely don't hug um so you're
yeah definitely don't hug um so you're going to want to approach equally you
going to want to approach equally you don't want any kind of asymmetry in your
don't want any kind of asymmetry in your hug right so that's why you want to
hug right so that's why you want to approach someone like this like no
approach someone like this like no asymmetry none of this straight on um
asymmetry none of this straight on um you so this is hard if you are taller
you so this is hard if you are taller than the person you typically want to go
than the person you typically want to go up like you want to avoid like the who's
up like you want to avoid like the who's going up right so the taller person
going up right so the taller person should always try to go up and you want
should always try to go up and you want to like literally angle up the lower
to like literally angle up the lower person is going to angle down and you're
person is going to angle down and you're going to try to go torso to
going to try to go torso to torso okay
torso okay and I like a two second hug by the way
and I like a two second hug by the way there is research on the length of
there is research on the length of handshakes I haven't seen research on
handshakes I haven't seen research on the length of hugs but a handshake
the length of hugs but a handshake should be between one and three pumps
should be between one and three pumps and one and three or one and three
and one and three or one and three seconds so for example we're saying at
seconds so for example we're saying at one two three that's good and typically
one two three that's good and typically they found that if we do a 3se second
they found that if we do a 3se second Shake it's with a new person so our
Shake it's with a new person so our first Shake was about 3 seconds because
first Shake was about 3 seconds because we didn't know each other but if I were
we didn't know each other but if I were to see you again like oh it's so good to
to see you again like oh it's so good to see
see you okay you do okay so typically if you
you okay you do okay so typically if you already know someone you're just like
already know someone you're just like doing a quick reading it's a 1 second
doing a quick reading it's a 1 second and if you don't know someone it's a 3
and if you don't know someone it's a 3 second what if
I your face as I got to four seconds you're like offended you're like not my
you're like offended you're like not my person you like you like cussed me out
person you like you like cussed me out of your eyes yeah was like horrible
of your eyes yeah was like horrible that's how I feel getting my arm back
that's how I feel getting my arm back you also want to make sure that when
you also want to make sure that when you're doing a handshake you're offering
you're doing a handshake you're offering um thumb up thumb up is really important
um thumb up thumb up is really important um you'll notice certain political power
um you'll notice certain political power players will um hear if yeah that so
players will um hear if yeah that so they'll flip you oh Donald Trump yes you
they'll flip you oh Donald Trump yes you and he like really pulls and he'll pull
and he like really pulls and he'll pull you he'll pull you off I never shaking
you he'll pull you off I never shaking hands with him so I don't know but um
hands with him so I don't know but um I've watched many many a video and he'll
I've watched many many a video and he'll shake your hand turn you up this is a
shake your hand turn you up this is a very vulnerable place to be we don't
very vulnerable place to be we don't like it as humans to have this these
like it as humans to have this these arteries up so we'll he'll flip so he'll
arteries up so we'll he'll flip so he'll he'll flip and he'll pull you off there
he'll flip and he'll pull you off there it doesn't feel good does it but what
it doesn't feel good does it but what does that signal does that signal
does that signal does that signal competence and strength no I don't think
competence and strength no I don't think it's either I actually think it's a
it's either I actually think it's a danger C okay CU it's purposely I don't
danger C okay CU it's purposely I don't none of the cues I teach are
none of the cues I teach are manipulative in that way like that is
manipulative in that way like that is purposely trying to get someone off
purposely trying to get someone off balance like to give them dis
balance like to give them dis equilibrium I like relationships to be
equilibrium I like relationships to be equal that's why I want you to offer
equal that's why I want you to offer thumb up I want I also don't want you to
thumb up I want I also don't want you to open you know offer your hand like you
open you know offer your hand like you know up where you're saying I'm going to
know up where you're saying I'm going to be submissive to you we don't like that
be submissive to you we don't like that right so thumb up I think I can't
right so thumb up I think I can't remember where I learned it but I
remember where I learned it but I learned that if you cut then it's
learned that if you cut then it's signaling warmth so abely I was going to
signaling warmth so abely I was going to cup earlier on but I was holding some
cup earlier on but I was holding some stuff I remember thinking I sat there
stuff I remember thinking I sat there and on cup why did I get my cup because
and on cup why did I get my cup because I was holding all your books so I I was
I was holding all your books so I I was holding your books I was like I can't
holding your books I was like I can't imagine if I TR to cup with your books I
imagine if I TR to cup with your books I was just thr so strange no so cupping is
was just thr so strange no so cupping is really warm it's double the warmth it's
really warm it's double the warmth it's double the oxytocin it's like a hand hug
double the oxytocin it's like a hand hug so it's super high in warmth it's also
so it's super high in warmth it's also called the politician's handshake so you
called the politician's handshake so you only want to do it if you are truly and
only want to do it if you are truly and genuinely trying to show warmth
genuinely trying to show warmth otherwise it can come across as forced
otherwise it can come across as forced okay I also speaking of like weird
okay I also speaking of like weird signals I've heard this about men that
signals I've heard this about men that men to men have two different kinds of
men to men have two different kinds of nods tell me if you think this is true
nods tell me if you think this is true so if you walk down the hallway and you
so if you walk down the hallway and you see a man you know you go hey nod up if
see a man you know you go hey nod up if you see a man you don't know you go
you see a man you don't know you go morning and you no down oh that's
morning and you no down oh that's interesting and supposedly it's because
interesting and supposedly it's because a person you know you're willing to
a person you know you're willing to expose this part of your neck but if you
expose this part of your neck but if you don't know someone you want to keep your
don't know someone you want to keep your chin down and your but you're still
chin down and your but you're still acknowledging them is that true well do
acknowledging them is that true well do you know what's funny is um the way that
you know what's funny is um the way that I think about it is if I see a black guy
I think about it is if I see a black guy guy okay out and about okay pretty much
guy okay out and about okay pretty much anywhere and they they know me whatever
anywhere and they they know me whatever they'll typically do that up there's
they'll typically do that up there's something about I don't I don't know if
something about I don't I don't know if I'm just making this up but there's
I'm just making this up but there's something about like being part of they
something about like being part of they I can see them from across the room have
I can see them from across the room have no idea who they are and in group it's
no idea who they are and in group it's like a I see you me and you are and I
like a I see you me and you are and I trust you it's a way of being like I'm
trust you it's a way of being like I'm willing to expose this I trust you oh
willing to expose this I trust you oh okay so interesting interesting so I've
okay so interesting interesting so I've noticed that women don't do that okay so
noticed that women don't do that okay so that's oh yes KN down is I see you
that's oh yes KN down is I see you stranger okay morning so interesting got
stranger okay morning so interesting got noted so interesting so so
noted so interesting so so interesting I'm a a CEO um I do speaking
interesting I'm a a CEO um I do speaking on stage you you speak on stage as well
on stage you you speak on stage as well you're very very good at it is there
you're very very good at it is there anything that I should know if I'm a
anything that I should know if I'm a leader in a business or I'm a public
leader in a business or I'm a public speaker that I should be thinking most
speaker that I should be thinking most about when I'm up on stage to signal I
about when I'm up on stage to signal I don't know whatever I want to signal to
don't know whatever I want to signal to get whatever I want yes purposeful
get whatever I want yes purposeful movement a big mistake I see CEOs make
movement a big mistake I see CEOs make on stage is they either don't have
on stage is they either don't have purposeful movement so they Pace the
purposeful movement so they Pace the stage back and forth or they're stuck in
stage back and forth or they're stuck in one point and they don't move from that
one point and they don't move from that point and it makes them look very stiff
point and it makes them look very stiff I believe you should block your speeches
I believe you should block your speeches just very subtly so for example I always
just very subtly so for example I always when I deliver I start in the middle of
when I deliver I start in the middle of the stage always always so when I'm
the stage always always so when I'm being introduced right your first few
being introduced right your first few seconds on stage is the most important
seconds on stage is the most important for your entire talk so as you're being
for your entire talk so as you're being introduced you walk on stage pick a
introduced you walk on stage pick a point and walk purposefully to it don't
point and walk purposefully to it don't Meander on the stage you're walking
Meander on the stage you're walking right to the middle of the stage or the
right to the middle of the stage or the left of the stage however you pick and
left of the stage however you pick and you're delivering your first opening
you're delivering your first opening lines opening story in that Middle Point
lines opening story in that Middle Point that's where I like it and that
that's where I like it and that intention walking on stage is going to
intention walking on stage is going to make you look so much more confident and
make you look so much more confident and not disorganized or um ambiguous then if
not disorganized or um ambiguous then if you can this is for the advanced speaker
you can this is for the advanced speaker and this is you I think you want to help
and this is you I think you want to help your audience with your stage movement
your audience with your stage movement so in my presentations when I'm sharing
so in my presentations when I'm sharing science or fact or research I'm on the
science or fact or research I'm on the left hand side of the stage when I'm
left hand side of the stage when I'm moving to personal story gifts anecdotes
moving to personal story gifts anecdotes or a funny video I'm on the right side
or a funny video I'm on the right side of the stage that is a way I'm helping
of the stage that is a way I'm helping my audience organize and categorize my
my audience organize and categorize my talks I've also noticed in the audience
talks I've also noticed in the audience there are highly warm people and there
there are highly warm people and there are highly competent people I've noticed
are highly competent people I've noticed if I train them that way I'm doing a
if I train them that way I'm doing a 60-minute keynote they they begin to
60-minute keynote they they begin to subconsciously recognize it my highly
subconsciously recognize it my highly competent folks perk right up I get to
competent folks perk right up I get to the left side of stage oh this is for me
the left side of stage oh this is for me and my highly warm folks are like ha my
and my highly warm folks are like ha my turn and it really helps them know when
turn and it really helps them know when to pay the most attention so you should
to pay the most attention so you should think about for your talks you also can
think about for your talks you also can do this chronologically so some of my
do this chronologically so some of my students are like Ted speakers and
students are like Ted speakers and they're telling more of a chronological
they're telling more of a chronological story as opposed to like making points I
story as opposed to like making points I will often teach them to start like we
will often teach them to start like we like to you know in in Western cultures
like to you know in in Western cultures we read from left to right I like them
we read from left to right I like them to actually start on the left hand side
to actually start on the left hand side of the stage or the audience's left
of the stage or the audience's left because the beginning of their story
because the beginning of their story starts here and they share their
starts here and they share their childhood there's pictur of their
childhood there's pictur of their childhood on the slide and they slowly
childhood on the slide and they slowly begin to move over to the middle when
begin to move over to the middle when the middle part of their Journey happens
the middle part of their Journey happens and they finally get to their Arc their
and they finally get to their Arc their knowledge their ah they finally they
knowledge their ah they finally they made it over to the far side of the
made it over to the far side of the stage the far right side of the stage
stage the far right side of the stage and in terms of what I'm saying we
and in terms of what I'm saying we talked a little bit about the actual
talked a little bit about the actual content of what I'm saying because this
content of what I'm saying because this applies not just to when I'm on stage
applies not just to when I'm on stage but also to emails and whatsapps and I
but also to emails and whatsapps and I think most of our communication these
think most of our communication these days is on a screen so if I'm trying to
days is on a screen so if I'm trying to be a master of structuring a sentence on
be a master of structuring a sentence on a screen to set people up for Success
a screen to set people up for Success okay what what like what is what have I
okay what what like what is what have I got to be thinking
got to be thinking about what emotion do you want your
about what emotion do you want your person to feel when they see your name
person to feel when they see your name in their inbox on stage in LinkedIn MH
in their inbox on stage in LinkedIn MH that is the emotion that you want to
that is the emotion that you want to label
label yourself so for example in your talks
yourself so for example in your talks like for example in my talks I am trying
like for example in my talks I am trying to acknowledge the pain of awkwardness I
to acknowledge the pain of awkwardness I don't want people to feel like they are
don't want people to feel like they are unseen so when I say you're overlooked
unseen so when I say you're overlooked you're misunderstood you're
you're misunderstood you're underestimated you feel awkward and out
underestimated you feel awkward and out of control and anxious and overwhelmed I
of control and anxious and overwhelmed I hear you you're not alone I've been
hear you you're not alone I've been there and then the solution to that
there and then the solution to that feeling the where it gets better is
feeling the where it gets better is confidence and presence and memorability
confidence and presence and memorability and the mechanism is Blueprints and
and the mechanism is Blueprints and formula and hard skills that helps me
formula and hard skills that helps me gift to the audience a solution emotion
gift to the audience a solution emotion so for you I would say what are the pain
so for you I would say what are the pain points you want your audience to
points you want your audience to resonate with so they feel heard by you
resonate with so they feel heard by you seen by you understood by you what's the
seen by you understood by you what's the goal emotion that you want to give them
goal emotion that you want to give them from your talk from your podcast from
from your talk from your podcast from the email that they're subscribing to
the email that they're subscribing to and then what's your mechanism what's
and then what's your mechanism what's your way that you do that
your way that you do that imperfection so imperfection I was I was
imperfection so imperfection I was I was watching a video of yours I think from
watching a video of yours I think from 10 years ago where you were sat with two
10 years ago where you were sat with two lovely people talking about Charisma and
lovely people talking about Charisma and one of the things you said earlier in
one of the things you said earlier in the video is that I think it was like TV
the video is that I think it was like TV shop or something like that where like a
shop or something like that where like a lady made a mistake she like spilled a
lady made a mistake she like spilled a milkshake or something and she did more
milkshake or something and she did more sales because she spilled a milkshake
sales because she spilled a milkshake yes that's it explain this to me yes
yes that's it explain this to me yes another study by Dr Richard wisman who
another study by Dr Richard wisman who wanted to know do you have to be perfect
wanted to know do you have to be perfect which for many years I wanted to be
which for many years I wanted to be perfect and then I realized oh there is
perfect and then I realized oh there is no such thing as perfect and I don't
no such thing as perfect and I don't want to be that way very simple he had a
want to be that way very simple he had a model selling a blender in a mall and in
model selling a blender in a mall and in one version she had the perfect pitch
one version she had the perfect pitch and now take your strawberries and your
and now take your strawberries and your bananas and just the button and here you
bananas and just the button and here you have perfect smoothies and the second
have perfect smoothies and the second one she he had same smoothie same pitch
one she he had same smoothie same pitch same verbal but she spills the Smoothie
same verbal but she spills the Smoothie on the table as she's pouring it people
on the table as she's pouring it people bought more of the blender when she
bought more of the blender when she spilled the
spilled the Smoothie now does this mean I want you
Smoothie now does this mean I want you to perfectely spill your smoothies no I
to perfectely spill your smoothies no I did have a piece of kale in my teeth
did have a piece of kale in my teeth earlier and I really considered coming
earlier and I really considered coming in with it just to see what would happen
in with it just to see what would happen I did I did I did think about it but I
I did I did I did think about it but I didn't do it but I do think there's like
didn't do it but I do think there's like stop trying to be perfect own your
stop trying to be perfect own your authentic vulnerabilities don't
authentic vulnerabilities don't purposely smell a smoothie don't
purposely smell a smoothie don't purposely smell your coffee by the way
purposely smell your coffee by the way that that experiment was repeated with
that that experiment was repeated with coffee and job interviews if I remember
coffee and job interviews if I remember correctly they had an audio clip um and
correctly they had an audio clip um and hirers were raing job candidates on
hirers were raing job candidates on performance and in one of the audio
performance and in one of the audio clips they had him spill his coffee oh
clips they had him spill his coffee oh whoops o oops oops sorry about that
whoops o oops oops sorry about that spill my coffee let's get that and then
spill my coffee let's get that and then go back to the interview and they raided
go back to the interview and they raided that candidate as a better candidate
that candidate as a better candidate even though he spilled his coffee why
even though he spilled his coffee why it's called the other shoe effect
it's called the other shoe effect we know that every no one's perfect we
we know that every no one's perfect we know this it's impossible and so when
know this it's impossible and so when we're interacting with someone even on a
we're interacting with someone even on a commercial even interview we're like
commercial even interview we're like what's wrong with
what's wrong with you what is your
you what is your imperfection and it kind of distracts us
imperfection and it kind of distracts us that this research the other shoe effect
that this research the other shoe effect found the longer the interview goes on
found the longer the interview goes on without something dropped like without
without something dropped like without the other shoe to drop the more the
the other shoe to drop the more the interviewer is like H what's going on
interviewer is like H what's going on here and the more they'll try to ask
here and the more they'll try to ask questions to try to find it you are
questions to try to find it you are better off in an interviewer on a date
better off in an interviewer on a date dropping your
dropping your shoe so sharing whatever that
shoe so sharing whatever that vulnerability or imperfection is closer
vulnerability or imperfection is closer to the start of the interview or the
to the start of the interview or the date because it helps the other person a
date because it helps the other person a get to know you better but also not be
get to know you better but also not be so worried that they're not seeing your
so worried that they're not seeing your true
true imperfection Captivate when I first
imperfection Captivate when I first wrote it my intro was really really
wrote it my intro was really really boring and my publisher I love her Nikki
boring and my publisher I love her Nikki my editor wrote back and she's like
my editor wrote back and she's like Vanessa your intro doesn't sound like
Vanessa your intro doesn't sound like you it sounds like you're trying to be
you it sounds like you're trying to be something you're not and she was right I
something you're not and she was right I was trying to sound like an academic
was trying to sound like an academic researcher I'm not an academic
researcher I'm not an academic researcher I'm a behavior researcher I'm
researcher I'm a behavior researcher I'm a pop scientist I'm a recovering awkward
a pop scientist I'm a recovering awkward person she's like start with that so the
person she's like start with that so the opening line of captivate is hi I'm
opening line of captivate is hi I'm Vanessa I'm a recovering awkward person
Vanessa I'm a recovering awkward person that is why that book hit the bestseller
that is why that book hit the bestseller list I dropped the shoe yes I teach
list I dropped the shoe yes I teach Charisma yes I teach body language I am
Charisma yes I teach body language I am still in recovery I am still constantly
still in recovery I am still constantly worried that people hate me I have a
worried that people hate me I have a small and wonderful group of friends but
small and wonderful group of friends but otherwise people make me still nervous I
otherwise people make me still nervous I know how to deal with it I how to make
know how to deal with it I how to make convers
convers but I want you to know there's still
but I want you to know there's still awkwardness here no matter how many of
awkwardness here no matter how many of these you learn you're probably still
these you learn you're probably still going to face awkwardness and overwhelm
going to face awkwardness and overwhelm but at least it will be a little bit
but at least it will be a little bit easier so I think it's really important
easier so I think it's really important that we plan to share our Perfections
that we plan to share our Perfections and not try to hide it weal branding
and not try to hide it weal branding uhuh is a big thing now because we have
uhuh is a big thing now because we have social media we have LinkedIn it's a big
social media we have LinkedIn it's a big part of what gets you a job and gets you
part of what gets you a job and gets you opportunities and gets you speaking
opportunities and gets you speaking appointments and book deals Etc so
appointments and book deals Etc so everybody is uh well most people are
everybody is uh well most people are playing the game of personal branding to
playing the game of personal branding to some degree yeah so as you were saying
some degree yeah so as you were saying about um being perfect and showing
about um being perfect and showing imperfections again it feels like
imperfections again it feels like there's a there's like a uh like a is
there's a there's like a uh like a is gradient the right word like a spectrum
gradient the right word like a spectrum that's a nice word for sure you can go
that's a nice word for sure you can go too far with imperfection oh yeah me and
too far with imperfection oh yeah me and my friends call this deficiency
my friends call this deficiency promotion what and then on the other end
promotion what and then on the other end of the spectrum you've got ideas
of the spectrum you've got ideas promotion which is like when you're all
promotion which is like when you're all about like look how smart I am and these
about like look how smart I am and these are my ideas and deficiency promotion is
are my ideas and deficiency promotion is look how traumatized broken sick ill I
look how traumatized broken sick ill I am and you build a whole brand around
am and you build a whole brand around that yeah and you can like you know so
that yeah and you can like you know so you're probably still going to get
you're probably still going to get speaking appointments either side
speaking appointments either side because you know they're going to want
because you know they're going to want people to speak about this stuff but
people to speak about this stuff but also this stuff but I think you have to
also this stuff but I think you have to be quite intentional about how you show
be quite intentional about how you show up on this spectrum well first of all
up on this spectrum well first of all what's true right like the very first
what's true right like the very first question is like don't purposely s spill
question is like don't purposely s spill the Smoothie but you know what's
the Smoothie but you know what's interesting is when you build a brand it
interesting is when you build a brand it becomes self-reinforcing so I see people
becomes self-reinforcing so I see people on both sides of the spectrum maybe they
on both sides of the spectrum maybe they started in the middle and then they got
started in the middle and then they got likes and followers that are like get go
likes and followers that are like get go further like what else is wrong with you
further like what else is wrong with you that's why we love you you're so Bren
that's why we love you you're so Bren toally totally I think that there are
toally totally I think that there are people who are locked into being broken
people who are locked into being broken and being messy and people don't want to
and being messy and people don't want to see them Triumph however I think it is
see them Triumph however I think it is important to show people if you are very
important to show people if you are very broken and in a bad point in a bad stage
broken and in a bad point in a bad stage in your life like show it and then show
in your life like show it and then show them how you're a hero out of it that
them how you're a hero out of it that can Inspire other Heroes I agree but is
can Inspire other Heroes I agree but is there such a thing as spending too long
there such a thing as spending too long in either Camp do you know what I mean
in either Camp do you know what I mean cuz we like a little bit of oh you had a
cuz we like a little bit of oh you had a bad day great but you have a bad life is
bad day great but you have a bad life is Different Strokes for different folks I
Different Strokes for different folks I think there are people who would stay
think there are people who would stay all over there forever yeah but if
all over there forever yeah but if you're there for 10 years where you're
you're there for 10 years where you're just every day you're showing up like
just every day you're showing up like another day for me for 10 years
another day for me for 10 years think they would still get likes I think
think they would still get likes I think would they would course they would
would they would course they would Conant I mean it would be Mis miserable
Conant I mean it would be Mis miserable for you as a person but if that's your
for you as a person but if that's your brand that's your brand I guess I guess
brand that's your brand I guess I guess you said that the most important thing
you said that the most important thing which is like who are you yeah like if
which is like who are you yeah like if that's the truth if you're you're having
that's the truth if you're you're having a decade of then be honest you got a
a decade of then be honest you got a decade of you got a decade of
decade of you got a decade of it it's interesting with social media
it it's interesting with social media that I think social media started in a
that I think social media started in a place where it was you know the marger
place where it was you know the marger on the beach and that that was in such
on the beach and that that was in such high Supply that something else became
high Supply that something else became in Greater Supply which was being a bit
in Greater Supply which was being a bit more honest and stretch marks on the
more honest and stretch marks on the beach yeah exactly stretch marks on the
beach yeah exactly stretch marks on the beach that's exactly what happened and
beach that's exactly what happened and those are people who' have gone viral
those are people who' have gone viral from those kind of posts I would I do
from those kind of posts I would I do want to say something about personal
want to say something about personal branding I think about it a little bit
branding I think about it a little bit differently um so in the very last
differently um so in the very last section of cues I talk about visual
section of cues I talk about visual um we have to remember that the cues in
um we have to remember that the cues in our brand the colors we wear what's
our brand the colors we wear what's behind you in your background the props
behind you in your background the props you're holding in your picture what's
you're holding in your picture what's back behind you in your videos they are
back behind you in your videos they are triggering neural networks so for
triggering neural networks so for example they've research this if I say
example they've research this if I say free associate to fire Tru you might say
free associate to fire Tru you might say red engine dog and you might start to
red engine dog and you might start to associate different words there are
associate different words there are really common neural networks so what
really common neural networks so what you want to think about is what what
you want to think about is what what neural networks are you triggering in
neural networks are you triggering in your personal brand so for example I
your personal brand so for example I like you to create strong neural
like you to create strong neural networks all my single students my
networks all my single students my students who are dating I say your
students who are dating I say your profile picture should be triggering all
profile picture should be triggering all kinds of neural networks that you like
kinds of neural networks that you like so if you love skiing you should be on a
so if you love skiing you should be on a slope holding skis because for some
slope holding skis because for some people that will trigger a fierce fear
people that will trigger a fierce fear neural network right like I'm not a
neural network right like I'm not a skier I see skis I'm like cold scared
skier I see skis I'm like cold scared alone
alone right like knees hurting like that's
right like knees hurting like that's what I think when I see skis I would not
what I think when I see skis I would not be a good partner for them but someone
be a good partner for them but someone else is going to be like Adventure
else is going to be like Adventure family fun vacations that's your person
family fun vacations that's your person every picture on your profile should be
every picture on your profile should be creating allergies and attractors should
creating allergies and attractors should be activating neural networks for your
be activating neural networks for your person you want them to have similar
person you want them to have similar neural networks to you my husband and I
neural networks to you my husband and I I think if you were to show us both
I think if you were to show us both pictures of the same things we would
pictures of the same things we would have very similar neural networks for
have very similar neural networks for different vacations different props
different vacations different props different foods different activities and
different foods different activities and that's because we have similar ways of
that's because we have similar ways of thinking we are very different but we
thinking we are very different but we activate the same similar neural
activate the same similar neural networks for pain and pleasure okay I
networks for pain and pleasure okay I had a conversation with a really good
had a conversation with a really good friend of mine about this okay um they
friend of mine about this okay um they are looking for a partner okay and they
are looking for a partner okay and they are approaching their 40s and they were
are approaching their 40s and they were asking me about their Instagram and the
asking me about their Instagram and the first thing I noticed about their
first thing I noticed about their Instagram is I would say 80% of pictures
Instagram is I would say 80% of pictures they're holding a cocktail or a drink of
they're holding a cocktail or a drink of alcohol now as I looked at the Instagram
alcohol now as I looked at the Instagram I go oh party go I don't think like
I go oh party go I don't think like settle down and let's have a family
settle down and let's have a family absolutely does she want to have a
absolutely does she want to have a family yes okay wrong pictures okay she
family yes okay wrong pictures okay she is activating the wrong neural networks
is activating the wrong neural networks for men she's dating men yeah she's
for men she's dating men yeah she's dating the wrong you're men are going to
dating the wrong you're men are going to look at that and be like party girl fun
look at that and be like party girl fun out not the mother of my children so
out not the mother of my children so those are creating allergies for the
those are creating allergies for the ideal man so what does she need to
ideal man so what does she need to change she needs okay so what kind of
change she needs okay so what kind of husband and father does she want does
husband and father does she want does she want an outdoor lover a good one
she want an outdoor lover a good one that can she she said to me I want a
that can she she said to me I want a good one that that can help me with some
good one that that can help me with some of these overheads overheads
of these overheads overheads bills she doesn't want him to pay all
bills she doesn't want him to pay all the bills she just wants some help with
the bills she just wants some help with the bills okay so okay so a hard
the bills okay so okay so a hard worker she ears a lot of money okay so
worker she ears a lot of money okay so that's pictures of her you know working
that's pictures of her you know working hard at a conference what kind of way
hard at a conference what kind of way does she spend to her weekend she's
does she spend to her weekend she's hiking or she's biking or she's running
hiking or she's biking or she's running across the Brooklyn Bridge or she's
across the Brooklyn Bridge or she's running a marathon or she's loves with
running a marathon or she's loves with dogs or she loves cats or she's eating
dogs or she loves cats or she's eating big waffles and pancakes like she should
big waffles and pancakes like she should be taking pictures of what she wants to
be taking pictures of what she wants to do with her partner so that they look at
do with her partner so that they look at that and they're like I want to join her
that and they're like I want to join her for that and you also want to create
for that and you also want to create allergies you don't want to appeal to
allergies you don't want to appeal to everyone cuz you're going to go on bad
everyone cuz you're going to go on bad dates the other thing I know about this
dates the other thing I know about this person is is something you said about
person is is something you said about earlier it's just their their body
earlier it's just their their body language as I think about it is just so
language as I think about it is just so it's like trying to take up less space
it's like trying to take up less space is any way I can describe it contracted
is any way I can describe it contracted exactly like that right so so when we
exactly like that right so so when we talk about distance between like so ear
talk about distance between like so ear ear ear L and shoulder distance number
ear ear L and shoulder distance number one second distance is important between
one second distance is important between your arm and your torso in a good
your arm and your torso in a good conversation we have distance that's
conversation we have distance that's fluctuating a lot like right I'm talking
fluctuating a lot like right I'm talking my arms are going out you're seeing
my arms are going out you're seeing distance between my torso and my arm
distance between my torso and my arm people who are very anxious yeah like in
people who are very anxious yeah like in like just like a pencil or like penguin
like just like a pencil or like penguin I call it penguin where they like don't
I call it penguin where they like don't ever release their arms from their torso
ever release their arms from their torso and they're very contracted they have
and they're very contracted they have very minimal hand gestures and they'll
very minimal hand gestures and they'll often clutch something to their chest
often clutch something to their chest now if I were to give the entire
now if I were to give the entire interview like this you would think oh
interview like this you would think oh man she is nervous or she's um you know
man she is nervous or she's um you know afraid or she's anxious because I don't
afraid or she's anxious because I don't have that space the moment I release
have that space the moment I release that space it makes me look more
that space it makes me look more confident so
confident so that's the other distance you can play
that's the other distance you can play with hand gestures really help with that
with hand gestures really help with that handes help with space with vocal
handes help with space with vocal variety with comprehension that's why I
variety with comprehension that's why I like them so much so if I'm trying to
like them so much so if I'm trying to get her a husband I'd like to we've been
get her a husband I'd like to we've been friends for a long time almost a decade
friends for a long time almost a decade and I have sat in the passenger seat of
and I have sat in the passenger seat of her life and tried to be a supportive
her life and tried to be a supportive friend in any way but if I tried to give
friend in any way but if I tried to give her advice in terms of cues and body
her advice in terms of cues and body language and sentences on how to get a
language and sentences on how to get a partner where do we start okay so one
partner where do we start okay so one let's get her some pictures that are
let's get her some pictures that are going to attract the right person and
going to attract the right person and create allergies for the wrong person
create allergies for the wrong person okay two her main profile pictures
okay two her main profile pictures should be showing warm and competent
should be showing warm and competent body language yeah authentic smile maybe
body language yeah authentic smile maybe a head tilt maybe you have a hand
a head tilt maybe you have a hand gesture maybe that's too much warmth I
gesture maybe that's too much warmth I want to see a lot of space between your
want to see a lot of space between your earlobe and your shoulder make sure it's
earlobe and your shoulder make sure it's a symmetrical smile make sure we're not
a symmetrical smile make sure we're not contempt make sure we're not
contempt make sure we're not accidentally fear smiling right so the
accidentally fear smiling right so the profile picture is number one most
profile picture is number one most important yes
important yes okay you're laugh it's a lot okay oh we
okay you're laugh it's a lot okay oh we we it's going to be hard we got to find
we it's going to be hard we got to find her her husband we haven't got much time
her her husband we haven't got much time yet that okay we got we got to find her
yet that okay we got we got to find her husband the interpersonal body language
husband the interpersonal body language is really hard as a friend to correct on
is really hard as a friend to correct on someone may I ask you does she use vocal
someone may I ask you does she use vocal fry what's that does she ever talk like
fry what's that does she ever talk like this where it's kind of like a frying
this where it's kind of like a frying pan where she's not using her full voice
pan where she's not using her full voice typically people who use contracted
typically people who use contracted small body language often have that kind
small body language often have that kind of a vocal power and so they go into a
of a vocal power and so they go into a pattern like this and then and like oh
pattern like this and then and like oh like I mean I just like watered the
like I mean I just like watered the plants this weekend and like also the
plants this weekend and like also the inton the um the end of this sentence
inton the um the end of this sentence goes up right so that's the first thing
goes up right so that's the first thing I would actually try to help her with is
I would actually try to help her with is um making sure that she does not
um making sure that she does not accidentally use vocal fry it's usually
accidentally use vocal fry it's usually an accident here's the fastest way to
an accident here's the fastest way to get vocal fry rid of vocal fry if you
get vocal fry rid of vocal fry if you are using it you hear yourself using it
are using it you hear yourself using it or someone else is using it just speak
or someone else is using it just speak louder vocal fry happens from a lack of
louder vocal fry happens from a lack of breath what actually is happening is
breath what actually is happening is you're speaking in your vocal cords are
you're speaking in your vocal cords are rattling it's a terrible noise but
rattling it's a terrible noise but that's it's my vocal cords rattling
that's it's my vocal cords rattling together and the moment that I speak
together and the moment that I speak louder it goes away it goes away so
louder it goes away it goes away so often times when we're lacking
often times when we're lacking confidence or we have tight body we have
confidence or we have tight body we have less breath and we create vocal fry so
less breath and we create vocal fry so just ask her to speak up a little bit
just ask her to speak up a little bit okay it's hard to get someone to stand
okay it's hard to get someone to stand more broadly because if they're
more broadly because if they're uncomfortable with it they don't like it
uncomfortable with it they don't like it so what I would recommend is she should
so what I would recommend is she should do activity dates when you're at dinner
do activity dates when you're at dinner with someone or at brunch or at coffee
with someone or at brunch or at coffee at a bar you're like this so what do you
at a bar you're like this so what do you do and you're like shriveled and you're
do and you're like shriveled and you're like clutching your drink and you're in
like clutching your drink and you're in your patterns you're in those patterns
your patterns you're in those patterns go on Hikes go play pickle ball go learn
go on Hikes go play pickle ball go learn pickle ball go play ping pong like do
pickle ball go play ping pong like do something physical because then it's
something physical because then it's much easier to be
broad interesting okay that makes a lot of sense actually yeah because you're
of sense actually yeah because you're going to if it's in a context you're
going to if it's in a context you're super familiar with you the old patterns
super familiar with you the old patterns are going to be triggered in you yes and
are going to be triggered in you yes and I've tried to get people to stand more
I've tried to get people to stand more broadly just by telling them and it can
broadly just by telling them and it can it helps the awareness helps but it's
it helps the awareness helps but it's much easier when you're actually in a
much easier when you're actually in a context that helps you be that way I
context that helps you be that way I read a study um from your work that said
read a study um from your work that said in a study to see how men and women look
in a study to see how men and women look at body language differently they put
at body language differently they put people in an MRI machine and had them
people in an MRI machine and had them try and read body language um from just
try and read body language um from just pictures alone what happened what did
pictures alone what happened what did they find out so I believe women
they find out so I believe women activated 14 to 16 areas of their brain
activated 14 to 16 areas of their brain activated while trying to read those
activated while trying to read those body language pictures and Men I believe
body language pictures and Men I believe it was half of that in other words when
it was half of that in other words when women were looking at pictures of body
women were looking at pictures of body language lots of connections were
language lots of connections were happening they were making predictions
happening they were making predictions they were thinking about personality
they were thinking about personality they were thinking about emotions they
they were thinking about emotions they were looking at their clothes they were
were looking at their clothes they were looking at their facial structure women
looking at their facial structure women were taking a much broader picture of
were taking a much broader picture of the body language whereas men were I
the body language whereas men were I think much more Q focused ah broad
think much more Q focused ah broad shoulders feet apart hands visible
shoulders feet apart hands visible neither of these are right or wrong
neither of these are right or wrong actually in fact men can sometimes be
actually in fact men can sometimes be easier to teach like my students are 50
easier to teach like my students are 50 men and women but sometimes men can they
men and women but sometimes men can they can focus in on the cue that I'm trying
can focus in on the cue that I'm trying to teach them they can understand it
to teach them they can understand it they can comprehend it got it it's
they can comprehend it got it it's decoded women tend to create a whole
decoded women tend to create a whole narrative so I play game sometimes with
narrative so I play game sometimes with my students where I say okay tell me
my students where I say okay tell me about someone he has a
about someone he has a mohawk and men will often say I don't
mohawk and men will often say I don't let them hear the women first men will
let them hear the women first men will often be like he has a
often be like he has a mohawk he's a man he's not bald women
mohawk he's a man he's not bald women will be like okay he's a bad boy and he
will be like okay he's a bad boy and he probably has has earrings and I bet you
probably has has earrings and I bet you he drives a motorcycle and I bet he'd be
he drives a motorcycle and I bet he'd be really fun on a date but probably a
really fun on a date but probably a drinker and they will just go
drinker and they will just go interesting so this is it's good and bad
interesting so this is it's good and bad right like that also can hinder women
right like that also can hinder women and by the way I'm making a big
and by the way I'm making a big generalizations on this this is not the
generalizations on this this is not the the generalization part we have to make
the generalization part we have to make sure we're careful on women tend to
sure we're careful on women tend to globalize a queue like they'll see a
globalize a queue like they'll see a queue and be like oh that means he's bad
queue and be like oh that means he's bad or that means he's dangerous I'm never
or that means he's dangerous I'm never he's toxic never gonna talk to him yeah
he's toxic never gonna talk to him yeah um whereas men will sometimes you know
um whereas men will sometimes you know oh it's probably a bad day or I'll I'll
oh it's probably a bad day or I'll I'll give her or him a second chance so we
give her or him a second chance so we just have to be a little bit aware of
just have to be a little bit aware of our own interpr our own lenses we'll say
our own interpr our own lenses we'll say is there anything else that I should say
is there anything else that I should say to my friend in in order to help them
to my friend in in order to help them because sometimes I wonder you know
because sometimes I wonder you know there's tips tricks tactics they can
there's tips tricks tactics they can lean they can do this whatever but is
lean they can do this whatever but is there something deeper that is easier
there something deeper that is easier and you know why I say this that book
and you know why I say this that book the game I went off to University I
the game I went off to University I lasted for one lecture but while I was
lasted for one lecture but while I was there I met this guy called Joe my
there I met this guy called Joe my friend I won't say his second name cuz
friend I won't say his second name cuz will identify him but I met my friend
will identify him but I met my friend Joe and I said to Joe listen my friend I
Joe and I said to Joe listen my friend I said this book The Game really useful
said this book The Game really useful Tau me a lot about like you know
Tau me a lot about like you know interpersonal um Dynamics you should
interpersonal um Dynamics you should read it gave the book to him he read it
read it gave the book to him he read it we went out to the club that day he
we went out to the club that day he it up like he went out there he
it up like he went out there he he started negging people insulting
he started negging people insulting people whatever and I just thought God
people whatever and I just thought God you know you just can't teach it that's
you know you just can't teach it that's what I thought I thought there's so many
what I thought I thought there's so many and actually when I reflect on the
and actually when I reflect on the people in my life this guy called Dan
people in my life this guy called Dan I'll say his name Dan Capon Dan Capon in
I'll say his name Dan Capon Dan Capon in school was always just so so good with
school was always just so so good with the opposite sex he was just always he's
the opposite sex he was just always he's one of those people he's charismatic he
one of those people he's charismatic he was funny he's like that cocky funny
was funny he's like that cocky funny yeah yeah just a natural no one taught
yeah yeah just a natural no one taught him that yeah and so I look at my friend
him that yeah and so I look at my friend Joe I look at my friend Dan I go you it
Joe I look at my friend Dan I go you it doesn't matter if you read the book
doesn't matter if you read the book because I'm not saying your book your
because I'm not saying your book your book's amazing everyone needs to go read
book's amazing everyone needs to go read your books no they really do it's a
your books no they really do it's a great book but I'm saying is there
great book but I'm saying is there something deeper within us like for my
something deeper within us like for my friend that has the shriveled posture
friend that has the shriveled posture yeah is it just like tactics and tips I
yeah is it just like tactics and tips I think anyone can learn it okay I I
think anyone can learn it okay I I really truly believe that I have seen
really truly believe that I have seen the most awkward uncomfortable people
the most awkward uncomfortable people totally shut
totally shut down slowly transform or completely
down slowly transform or completely transform and remember they don't who is
transform and remember they don't who is your uncharismatic friend what was the
your uncharismatic friend what was the fake first name you used he's not he's
fake first name you used he's not he's not uncharismatic he just I just gave
not uncharismatic he just I just gave him the book and he just like who is Joe
him the book and he just like who is Joe Joe Joe doesn't need to have a complete
Joe Joe doesn't need to have a complete transformation to find his soulmate Joe
transformation to find his soulmate Joe does not need to have a complete
does not need to have a complete transformation to have friends you're
transformation to have friends you're his friend so even if he has a couple of
his friend so even if he has a couple of tactics like stop asking what do you do
tactics like stop asking what do you do it's boring M like start making eye
it's boring M like start making eye contact especially the end of sentences
contact especially the end of sentences for 60 70% of the time oh people
for 60 70% of the time oh people suddenly feel listen to hey ask better
suddenly feel listen to hey ask better questions to your friends you'll get to
questions to your friends you'll get to know them better those tactics will get
know them better those tactics will get him friendships hopefully a girlfriend
him friendships hopefully a girlfriend hopefully a job so I think that everyone
hopefully a job so I think that everyone can make small or big changes I don't
can make small or big changes I don't think there's anyone who's unteachable
think there's anyone who's unteachable do you think there's a relationship
do you think there's a relationship between these tactics and tips and your
between these tactics and tips and your actual confidence I.E does it become
actual confidence I.E does it become like a
like a self-reinforcing yes so much so like
self-reinforcing yes so much so like that is the only way I found confidence
that is the only way I found confidence the only way that I was able to conquer
the only way that I was able to conquer my awkwardness and actually begin to go
my awkwardness and actually begin to go out and try to make friends and be less
out and try to make friends and be less lonely I mean I was so lonely was that I
lonely I mean I was so lonely was that I was like okay I have a goal I'm going to
was like okay I have a goal I'm going to ask someone one what have you been doing
ask someone one what have you been doing that's been exciting recently I'm going
that's been exciting recently I'm going to ask that question that gave me just
to ask that question that gave me just enough confidence to get out the door
enough confidence to get out the door and to get to that party and then when I
and to get to that party and then when I got a good answer someone's like oh yeah
got a good answer someone's like oh yeah you know I am working on something
you know I am working on something exciting I was like oh and then they
exciting I was like oh and then they felt excited I felt excited and so like
felt excited I felt excited and so like that one tool gave me enough confidence
that one tool gave me enough confidence to go out so these tools give you
to go out so these tools give you confidence to try something new and to
confidence to try something new and to break your pattern if you feel stuck and
break your pattern if you feel stuck and this is for anyone if you feel stuck
this is for anyone if you feel stuck then you have to try something different
then you have to try something different if you keep doing the same thing you're
if you keep doing the same thing you're going to keep getting the same thing so
going to keep getting the same thing so that means you have to ask different
that means you have to ask different kinds of questions you have to use
kinds of questions you have to use different kind of body language cues and
different kind of body language cues and if you're willing to try just something
if you're willing to try just something different something will change for
different something will change for you is are these cues this body language
you is are these cues this body language more important for one gender typically
more important for one gender typically than the other not that I've seen not
than the other not that I've seen not the research has not found that good for
the research has not found that good for both and what's in terms of
both and what's in terms of Attraction is what is do you think the
Attraction is what is do you think the most important thing is it competent is
most important thing is it competent is it strong is it okay so this is not this
it strong is it okay so this is not this is research so I believe it was Monica
is research so I believe it was Monica Moore who did this research she found
Moore who did this research she found that the people who got approached the
that the people who got approached the most at clubs the people who got
most at clubs the people who got approached the most were just had the
approached the most were just had the biggest signal of
biggest signal of availability so they weren't the most
availability so they weren't the most attractive men and women she did this
attractive men and women she did this for both men and women they were not the
for both men and women they were not the most attractive men and women in fact
most attractive men and women in fact the most attractive women in the in the
the most attractive women in the in the room if they had closed body language
room if they had closed body language closed off Body Language they were not
closed off Body Language they were not approach they did not get dates they did
approach they did not get dates they did not get out their number it was the men
not get out their number it was the men and women who signaled I'm available
and women who signaled I'm available how' you signal one available okay so uh
how' you signal one available okay so uh this is really important for dating in
this is really important for dating in the sense of wanting to be approach
the sense of wanting to be approach dating one to one is a little bit
dating one to one is a little bit different right you don't need to Signal
different right you don't need to Signal this if you're one to one but if you're
this if you're one to one but if you're in a big room or you're speed networking
in a big room or you're speed networking one is open body no blocking I never
one is open body no blocking I never want anything in front of your torso I
want anything in front of your torso I don't want this I don't so I don't want
don't want this I don't so I don't want arms crossed I don't want Cup in front
arms crossed I don't want Cup in front of you I don't want you clutching your
of you I don't want you clutching your computer or your iPad or your phone I
computer or your iPad or your phone I want you to make sure that your torso is
want you to make sure that your torso is open and angled out towards the room I
open and angled out towards the room I like croissant feet you know
like croissant feet you know parallel feet are like what we're doing
parallel feet are like what we're doing right now in a dating situation I want
right now in a dating situation I want you to have croissant feet which is your
you to have croissant feet which is your your feet are angled toward the biggest
your feet are angled toward the biggest part of the room saying I'm open come
part of the room saying I'm open come and approach me okay that signals to
and approach me okay that signals to both men and women oh maybe that person
both men and women oh maybe that person is literally physically open to someone
is literally physically open to someone coming in and breaking this conversation
coming in and breaking this conversation it also means small darting glances to
it also means small darting glances to everyone around the room everyone
everyone around the room everyone everyone you want to approach you oh
everyone you want to approach you oh everyone you want to approach you yeah
everyone you want to approach you yeah how many times do someone got to do a
how many times do someone got to do a glance to get someone to come over so
glance to get someone to come over so mon Moore actually studied this I
mon Moore actually studied this I believe it took eight glances to get
believe it took eight glances to get someone to approach don't quote me on
someone to approach don't quote me on that it was it was way higher than I
that it was it was way higher than I thought like I was like two maybe three
thought like I was like two maybe three I think it was something insane like
I think it was something insane like eight could you imagine being in a bar
eight could you imagine being in a bar and looking at someone eight times
and looking at someone eight times that's how many times it took to get
that's how many times it took to get that person to come over and these are
that person to come over and these are quick glances not like you know cat like
quick glances not like you know cat like it's a it's a side glance it's a side
it's a it's a side glance it's a side glance and a smile it's a flip of the
glance and a smile it's a flip of the hair and a look over right those are the
hair and a look over right those are the kind of glances that we're talking about
kind of glances that we're talking about and there it takes eight sometimes so
and there it takes eight sometimes so croissant feet open body quick short
croissant feet open body quick short glances I would also try one of my
glances I would also try one of my secret tricks for daters is um generally
secret tricks for daters is um generally gesturing in their Direction so like
gesturing in their Direction so like let's see like like there's a hot guy
let's see like like there's a hot guy right over there that I can see i' I've
right over there that I can see i' I've been married for 18 years just to be
been married for 18 years just to be okay yeah um if you want you okay drop
okay yeah um if you want you okay drop something you called him hot you called
something you called him hot you called him hot he's freaking
him hot he's freaking out okay so there's a hot guy right over
out okay so there's a hot guy right over there that I want to see and I'm talking
there that I want to see and I'm talking to you I might make some quick
to you I might make some quick glances over but I also might like when
glances over but I also might like when I'm gesturing I'm sort of gesturing
I'm gesturing I'm sort of gesturing towards them so I'm on their line of
towards them so I'm on their line of gesturing so like if I'm gesturing out
gesturing so like if I'm gesturing out I'm I'm making a gesture for them to
I'm I'm making a gesture for them to literally come over like I'm like
literally come over like I'm like gesturing and then I'm like I want them
gesturing and then I'm like I want them to like literally come over I'm sort of
to like literally come over I'm sort of gesturing but I'm talking but I'm open
gesturing but I'm talking but I'm open gesturing ah interes it work if they are
gesturing ah interes it work if they are attracted to you at all they will come
attracted to you at all they will come over if they don't come over they're
over if they don't come over they're probably not attracted do you try
probably not attracted do you try someone else what about men how do men
someone else what about men how do men signal in this oh sorry same same so
signal in this oh sorry same same so like a man can the same thing now women
like a man can the same thing now women are less likely to approach men in a
are less likely to approach men in a crowded environment culturally that's
crowded environment culturally that's not as accepted so it's going to be
not as accepted so it's going to be harder to for a man to get a woman to
harder to for a man to get a woman to come over but it does work very well for
come over but it does work very well for men to warm a woman up that you she is
men to warm a woman up that you she is about to be approached with those things
about to be approached with those things quick glances open gestures croissant
quick glances open gestures croissant feet towards her that way when you do
feet towards her that way when you do approach she knows that your attention
approach she knows that your attention has been on her and look at her
has been on her and look at her responses to your gestures and your
responses to your gestures and your glances if she meets your glance great
glances if she meets your glance great if she turns away from you turns her
if she turns away from you turns her feet away from you she's not probably
feet away from you she's not probably very receptive to your approach so it's
very receptive to your approach so it's a good way to kind of test the waters
a good way to kind of test the waters before you actually approach it's
before you actually approach it's difficult in this day and age isn't it
difficult in this day and age isn't it to know if you can roll up on someone
to know if you can roll up on someone because there's a lot of like you know
because there's a lot of like you know too cool for school that's what I see
too cool for school that's what I see and also there's like a big culture now
and also there's like a big culture now of inappropriate
of inappropriate advances yes but I'm going to be
advances yes but I'm going to be optimistic and say look I'm not single
optimistic and say look I'm not single so I I know that's different but I think
so I I know that's different but I think people are lonely and I think people so
people are lonely and I think people so want to meet their person so if you are
want to meet their person so if you are actually in person and you were
actually in person and you were interested in
interested in someone it is such a gift to go up to
someone it is such a gift to go up to someone and be like hey I like you I saw
someone and be like hey I like you I saw you across the
you across the room J I think I said this on one or two
room J I think I said this on one or two podcasts before but I didn't really get
podcasts before but I didn't really get a answer from anybody I had this kid at
a answer from anybody I had this kid at this event that I spoke at okay and he
this event that I spoke at okay and he was in the front R it just it really
was in the front R it just it really moved me because it made me realize that
moved me because it made me realize that there's so many people out there
there's so many people out there especially in the world we live in now
especially in the world we live in now in 2024 for 2025 or whatever who want
in 2024 for 2025 or whatever who want friends you just said loneliness right
friends you just said loneliness right they want to make her friend and it's so
they want to make her friend and it's so weird this kid stood up bless him in
weird this kid stood up bless him in this talk I was doing and he put his
this talk I was doing and he put his hands up in the air and there's a
hands up in the air and there's a thousand people um around him it was
thousand people um around him it was this talk I did in Canary wolf in London
this talk I did in Canary wolf in London which is like it's like New York of
which is like it's like New York of London it's like really really busy
London it's like really really busy they're all wearing suits these kids
they're all wearing suits these kids because they work in the city and he
because they work in the city and he stood up and he went my question is how
stood up and he went my question is how do I make friends oh and you can imagine
do I make friends oh and you can imagine the guts it takes to say that in front
the guts it takes to say that in front of a room of a thousand people
of a room of a thousand people he went how do I make friends what' you
he went how do I make friends what' you say do you have any friends do I have
say do you have any friends do I have any friends I have a couple not many but
any friends I have a couple not many but it's funny because what I actually said
it's funny because what I actually said it took me off took me off guard but
it took me off took me off guard but what I ended up saying was what you just
what I ended up saying was what you just did is how you make friends you know
did is how you make friends you know what I'm saying so like that that
what I'm saying so like that that willingness to be vulnerable in that way
willingness to be vulnerable in that way because I said I know what's going to
because I said I know what's going to happen after I finish on stage here and
happen after I finish on stage here and walk off people are going to come up to
walk off people are going to come up to you yeah yeah okay so I have a framework
you yeah yeah okay so I have a framework for how to make friends as adults okay I
for how to make friends as adults okay I think it's really important I think it's
think it's really important I think it's somehow acceptable in our society to
somehow acceptable in our society to approach friendship like dating but
approach friendship like dating but that's how we should think about it is
that's how we should think about it is meeting two or three amazing people is
meeting two or three amazing people is so important for your health for your
so important for your health for your happiness for your success it is so
happiness for your success it is so important to date your friends like that
important to date your friends like that is incredibly important one of my best
is incredibly important one of my best friends is Cody Sanchez because she is
friends is Cody Sanchez because she is incredibly inspiring incredibly smart
incredibly inspiring incredibly smart incredibly funny but I dated a lot of
incredibly funny but I dated a lot of people in Austin a lot of girls in
people in Austin a lot of girls in Austin to find her I know she did too it
Austin to find her I know she did too it was my bachelorette for friends era
was my bachelorette for friends era where I was looking for girlfriends and
where I was looking for girlfriends and we just like hit it off and like we've
we just like hit it off and like we've been able to grow our businesses
been able to grow our businesses together so one is you should change
together so one is you should change your mindset finding friends is like
your mindset finding friends is like dating you are looking for your friend
dating you are looking for your friend soulmate and then you should approach
soulmate and then you should approach those friends just like you would a
those friends just like you would a potential partner you want someone with
potential partner you want someone with similar values you want Sim someone who
similar values you want Sim someone who activates the same neural networks as
activates the same neural networks as you they like the same activities and
you they like the same activities and you want someone who you test it out you
you want someone who you test it out you would never move in with a friend or
would never move in with a friend or never move with someone who just started
never move with someone who just started dating same thing with a friend you
dating same thing with a friend you don't want to get too close too fast
don't want to get too close too fast so I highly recommend go on friendship
so I highly recommend go on friendship dates and you want them to be different
dates and you want them to be different every time take them to places that you
every time take them to places that you love and try to make them a little bit
love and try to make them a little bit allergic so for example there's a place
allergic so for example there's a place this is going to sound crazy but it
this is going to sound crazy but it works so there's a place in Austin
works so there's a place in Austin called uh Casa Delo if anyone's been
called uh Casa Delo if anyone's been there in Austin and it's a vegan hippie
there in Austin and it's a vegan hippie spot it's been there forever and you go
spot it's been there forever and you go in and it's one meal You Can't customize
in and it's one meal You Can't customize it and they plop it down on your tray
it and they plop it down on your tray and you eat it like a cafeteria food and
and you eat it like a cafeteria food and I love it and I love taking really high
I love it and I love taking really high maintenance women there just to see what
maintenance women there just to see what they're going to do because the the
they're going to do because the the women who are like can I please get a
women who are like can I please get a not a I'm like we're not going to be
not a I'm like we're not going to be friends we cannot be friends you don't
friends we cannot be friends you don't like those people nope that modified
like those people nope that modified them that's why I left La mm I mean you
them that's why I left La mm I mean you can modify a little bit but like there's
can modify a little bit but like there's a way that you kind do it and here you
a way that you kind do it and here you can't you literally cannot modify and so
can't you literally cannot modify and so it's interesting to see how people deal
it's interesting to see how people deal with that circumstance and I found my
with that circumstance and I found my best closest friends are like cool let's
best closest friends are like cool let's go with it like that's a way that that I
go with it like that's a way that that I see very into their personality that's
see very into their personality that's like a very weird story people are going
like a very weird story people are going to be like she's so weird no wonder she
to be like she's so weird no wonder she doesn't have any friends true I don't
doesn't have any friends true I don't have a lot of friends but the friends I
have a lot of friends but the friends I have I love we go to C all the time so
have I love we go to C all the time so you should think about activities or
you should think about activities or places with your friends where you're
places with your friends where you're going to be able to test out a value or
going to be able to test out a value or something that you really appreciate in
something that you really appreciate in friends what if you don't have friends
friends what if you don't have friends I'm thinking about this kid like and
I'm thinking about this kid like and especially if you're a man because men
especially if you're a man because men just struggle more it's it's it's it
just struggle more it's it's it's it actually feels awkward sometimes
actually feels awkward sometimes when I make dates for my hband I I have
when I make dates for my hband I I have to get make dates friend dates for my
to get make dates friend dates for my husband as well no I totally get I see
husband as well no I totally get I see it um activities so like where's the
it um activities so like where's the place you like to hang out what's the
place you like to hang out what's the thing that you do is it you know axe
thing that you do is it you know axe throwing is it going to soccer games is
throwing is it going to soccer games is it crazy mileage runs is it hiking group
it crazy mileage runs is it hiking group is it pickle ball like find the activity
is it pickle ball like find the activity you love and then just slowly just like
you love and then just slowly just like we're talking about dating slowly hit
we're talking about dating slowly hit them up work on anything exciting these
them up work on anything exciting these days what's your big goal for 2025 like
days what's your big goal for 2025 like those are the questions the reason I
those are the questions the reason I have these questions is they're dating
have these questions is they're dating questions but they're also friendship
questions but they're also friendship questions if you live in that activity
questions if you live in that activity for long enough you'll find your people
for long enough you'll find your people what are you seeing in terms of
what are you seeing in terms of interpersonal relationship shifts in the
interpersonal relationship shifts in the sort of 15 years has it been since
sort of 15 years has it been since you've been 18 years you you must have
you've been 18 years you you must have seen societal level shifts in our
seen societal level shifts in our interpersonal skills our friendships Etc
interpersonal skills our friendships Etc what are you saying airpods are killing
what are you saying airpods are killing friendship airpods are going to ruin our
friendship airpods are going to ruin our interpersonal interactions and here's
interpersonal interactions and here's the difference I've seen that biggest
the difference I've seen that biggest difference the last 18 years 18 years
difference the last 18 years 18 years ago you could maybe wear a Walkman
ago you could maybe wear a Walkman around campus or around the city or on a
around campus or around the city or on a subway but really your ears were open
subway but really your ears were open and so what would happen is you get on
and so what would happen is you get on the subway or you'd walk across campus
the subway or you'd walk across campus or you'd walk down the hallway and
or you'd walk down the hallway and someone would be like Hey Stephen how's
someone would be like Hey Stephen how's it going you know pretty good crazy week
it going you know pretty good crazy week oh really what you working on like it
oh really what you working on like it was so much easier to have those tiny
was so much easier to have those tiny micro moments of connection that van
micro moments of connection that van Sloan study was done before airpods and
Sloan study was done before airpods and I wonder if you were to redo it now it
I wonder if you were to redo it now it would happen which one that the the one
would happen which one that the the one where he found the most likable kids had
where he found the most likable kids had the longest list of people they liked
the longest list of people they liked and in the study the most likable kids
and in the study the most likable kids when he observed them they were walking
when he observed them they were walking down the hallway saying hello chatting
down the hallway saying hello chatting next to someone for 5 seconds at a
next to someone for 5 seconds at a locker saying after class and sort of
locker saying after class and sort of talking sitting with a lunch table
talking sitting with a lunch table leaning over someone asking about that
leaning over someone asking about that so much micro connection very small
so much micro connection very small conversations our friendships don't
conversations our friendships don't often happen in these big deep
often happen in these big deep conversations they happen in these micro
conversations they happen in these micro moments airpods destroy it and I see
moments airpods destroy it and I see this especially with younger folks
this especially with younger folks because they always have their airpods
because they always have their airpods in when they're commuting when they're
in when they're commuting when they're walking when they're jogging when
walking when they're jogging when they're at the gym I don't know about
they're at the gym I don't know about when I was single for 5 seconds when I
when I was single for 5 seconds when I was like you know 17 the gym was like
was like you know 17 the gym was like the place like at the gym no one really
the place like at the gym no one really was listening to anything at the gym at
was listening to anything at the gym at least I can remember like the rare
least I can remember like the rare person would have their Walkman in but
person would have their Walkman in but everyone was airpod free and so there
everyone was airpod free and so there was a lot of micro moments of connection
was a lot of micro moments of connection happening it was so much easier to talk
happening it was so much easier to talk to people now if someone's working out
to people now if someone's working out with their out their airpods they
with their out their airpods they they're insane I'm like what are they
they're insane I'm like what are they doing they should go home it's weird
doing they should go home it's weird it's weird or they're with a friend
it's weird or they're with a friend working out together and that's
working out together and that's intimidating so I'm
intimidating so I'm worried about this because we need weak
worried about this because we need weak ties week ties are in the research these
ties week ties are in the research these very casual connections of someone you
very casual connections of someone you see at the gym once a week and you kind
see at the gym once a week and you kind of know them oh yeah you know Stephen
of know them oh yeah you know Stephen nice to see you you recognize their face
nice to see you you recognize their face that when you were if you were to see
that when you were if you were to see them at a restaurant later in the week
them at a restaurant later in the week You' be like hey don't you go to that
You' be like hey don't you go to that gym oh yeah yeah we do so what are you
gym oh yeah yeah we do so what are you doing this weekend like those week ties
doing this weekend like those week ties are incredibly important for our
are incredibly important for our happiness that's how we build big
happiness that's how we build big friends that's how we can find a
friends that's how we can find a soulmate that's how we can make good
soulmate that's how we can make good business contacts and I'm seeing less
business contacts and I'm seeing less and less of that because of airpods and
and less of that because of airpods and because of hybrid work so we're just not
because of hybrid work so we're just not in the office that much so we're having
in the office that much so we're having less of those little micro moments in a
less of those little micro moments in a hallway that five minutes before a
hallway that five minutes before a meeting starts the five minutes before a
meeting starts the five minutes before a meeting start is really critical to your
meeting start is really critical to your Career Success how you talk to your boss
Career Success how you talk to your boss the small talk you make are you asking
the small talk you make are you asking boring questions it's telling your
boring questions it's telling your colleagues and your boss a lot about who
colleagues and your boss a lot about who you are and it's proven likable people
you are and it's proven likable people make more money likable people get more
make more money likable people get more promotions likable people have more
promotions likable people have more friends and more friends at work and so
friends and more friends at work and so when we have less moments to show how
when we have less moments to show how likable we are it's really hard to get
likable we are it's really hard to get those
those things at my company flight Studio which
things at my company flight Studio which is part of my bigger company flight
is part of my bigger company flight group we're constantly looking for ways
group we're constantly looking for ways to build deeper connections with our
to build deeper connections with our audiences whether that's a new show a
audiences whether that's a new show a product or a project it's why I launched
product or a project it's why I launched the conversation cards I've relied on
the conversation cards I've relied on Shopify before who's a sponsor of
Shopify before who's a sponsor of today's podcast and I'll be using them
today's podcast and I'll be using them again for the next big launch which
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because of how easy it is to set up an online store that reaches all of you no
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matter where you are in the world with Shopify the usual pain points of
Shopify the usual pain points of launching products online Disappear
launching products online Disappear Completely no matter the size of your
Completely no matter the size of your business Shopify has everything you need
business Shopify has everything you need to make your business go to the next
to make your business go to the next level and better with your customers all
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shopify.com Bartlet that's shopify.com Bartlet or
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find the link in the description below if you're an entrepreneur you're
if you're an entrepreneur you're probably going to want to listen to this
probably going to want to listen to this it's a message from one of our sponsors
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on this podcast which is LinkedIn if you've listened to me on this podcast
you've listened to me on this podcast for a while now you'll know that I've
for a while now you'll know that I've been on a bit of an evolution as a
been on a bit of an evolution as a business owner and entrepreneur and one
business owner and entrepreneur and one of those Evolutions that has become
of those Evolutions that has become clearer and clearer as I've matured is
clearer and clearer as I've matured is that the single most important thing in
that the single most important thing in building a business in building a
building a business in building a company is hiring the definition of the
company is hiring the definition of the word company is actually group of people
word company is actually group of people and that is the first responsibility and
and that is the first responsibility and job that any entrepreneur has and should
job that any entrepreneur has and should focus on but surprisingly most don't
focus on but surprisingly most don't about 80% of my team have been hired
about 80% of my team have been hired from LinkedIn and I think there's very
from LinkedIn and I think there's very few platforms if any in the world that
few platforms if any in the world that could give you that diversity of
could give you that diversity of candidate with that much information and
candidate with that much information and data on their profiles it usually costs
data on their profiles it usually costs money but for the entrepreneurs that are
money but for the entrepreneurs that are listening to me I've got you a free job
listening to me I've got you a free job ad post for your company on LinkedIn
ad post for your company on LinkedIn just go to linkedin.com
just go to linkedin.com doac to post your free job ad today
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conditions apply what about lying this is one of
apply what about lying this is one of the most um things people are most
the most um things people are most interested in is how to everyone wants
interested in is how to everyone wants to spot a liar it's funny cuz like the
to spot a liar it's funny cuz like the the rest of our conversation one could
the rest of our conversation one could infer that as how to like be a liar I'm
infer that as how to like be a liar I'm joking on no but it is it's like how to
joking on no but it is it's like how to show up in a certain way to get success
show up in a certain way to get success in a certain context whether it's dating
in a certain context whether it's dating or work whatever yeah but then we want
or work whatever yeah but then we want to figure out if someone's playing us is
to figure out if someone's playing us is there is it possible to spot a liar most
there is it possible to spot a liar most people can only spot a lie with 54%
people can only spot a lie with 54% accuracy they've actually studied the
accuracy they've actually studied the average person is very bad better you're
average person is very bad better you're better off tossing a coin 54% accuracy
better off tossing a coin 54% accuracy we are very bad at spotting lers and
we are very bad at spotting lers and this is important to know about yourself
this is important to know about yourself is we should not overestimate our
is we should not overestimate our ability to spot Lies We are usually not
ability to spot Lies We are usually not good at it so it is very important to
good at it so it is very important to give someone the benefit of the doubt
give someone the benefit of the doubt because you don't know it's very hard to
because you don't know it's very hard to spot it is possible there are certain
spot it is possible there are certain statistical cues to deceit there are
statistical cues to deceit there are cues that over and over again research
cues that over and over again research find Liars typically do but not always
find Liars typically do but not always like there's no Pinocchio's nose there's
like there's no Pinocchio's nose there's no one cue that means someone is lying
no one cue that means someone is lying but there are a couple cues that come up
but there are a couple cues that come up over and over again one we already
over and over again one we already talked about the question inflection
talked about the question inflection it's very suspicious if someone someone
it's very suspicious if someone someone is speaking and all of a sudden they ask
is speaking and all of a sudden they ask a
a question if they're not actually asking
question if they're not actually asking a question right like if all of a sudden
a question right like if all of a sudden you hear the question inflection use on
you hear the question inflection use on a statement or a number or a boundary or
a statement or a number or a boundary or a timeline that's when I'm like let's
a timeline that's when I'm like let's double click on that for a second and
double click on that for a second and talk about that budget so you mentioned
talk about that budget so you mentioned the number was 500,000 where does that
the number was 500,000 where does that number come from let's talk about more
number come from let's talk about more and I want to hear if I'm going to hear
and I want to hear if I'm going to hear it again interesting so that's a double
it again interesting so that's a double click for me that's like let's make sure
click for me that's like let's make sure that I heard that right let's make sure
that I heard that right let's make sure that you feel confident about it let
that you feel confident about it let where does that come from so that's just
where does that come from so that's just a little red flag that says dive deeper
a little red flag that says dive deeper nothing is a sign of lying it's just a
nothing is a sign of lying it's just a sign that you should dig deeper so uh
sign that you should dig deeper so uh question reflection a volume drop is
question reflection a volume drop is another vocal cue of deception so when
another vocal cue of deception so when we're anxious or nervous we will lose
we're anxious or nervous we will lose volume and we lose breath so if you hear
volume and we lose breath so if you hear someone who's speaking I I hear this a
someone who's speaking I I hear this a lot in sales calls so someone will um I
lot in sales calls so someone will um I always know what part of a sales
always know what part of a sales presentation makes my entrepreneurs the
presentation makes my entrepreneurs the most nervous because they lose volume
most nervous because they lose volume during that part of their presentation
during that part of their presentation so it sounds like this so let's move on
so it sounds like this so let's move on to our team so our founding partners are
to our team so our founding partners are um me myself uh Joe Jimmy and we all met
um me myself uh Joe Jimmy and we all met at
at NYU and we're going to now talk about
NYU and we're going to now talk about like I'm obvious I'm making it obvious
like I'm obvious I'm making it obvious for you but if you're listening for it
for you but if you're listening for it you'll hear where someone is like they
you'll hear where someone is like they literally lost fuel they literally lost
literally lost fuel they literally lost breath so a sudden drop in volume it's a
breath so a sudden drop in volume it's a very interesting CU to like double click
very interesting CU to like double click like what just happened there how do you
like what just happened there how do you feel about your co- under how long have
feel about your co- under how long have you known each other anything we should
you known each other anything we should know about that how's the relationship
know about that how's the relationship how do you fight how do you communicate
how do you fight how do you communicate right like that's when I would that's
right like that's when I would that's where I would aim most of my investor
where I would aim most of my investor questions if I was hearing that volume
questions if I was hearing that volume drop on that specific
drop on that specific area the other the now that's fcal
area the other the now that's fcal non-verbal so non-verbal what you're
non-verbal so non-verbal what you're looking for is in congruencies where the
looking for is in congruencies where the verbal does not match the body the
verbal does not match the body the biggest and most obvious one is when
biggest and most obvious one is when someone says yes but shakes their head
someone says yes but shakes their head no or says no but shakes their head yes
no or says no but shakes their head yes so I might say to my daughter did you
so I might say to my daughter did you clean your room um yeah I did she's
clean your room um yeah I did she's shaking her head no in Western cultur so
shaking her head no in Western cultur so the there's a cultural exception to this
the there's a cultural exception to this one India Bulgaria and Pakistan they
one India Bulgaria and Pakistan they knot a little bit differently the
knot a little bit differently the research actually shows that but in
research actually shows that but in countries outside of India Bulgaria and
countries outside of India Bulgaria and Pakistan when we agree with someone say
Pakistan when we agree with someone say yes or telling the truth we typically
yes or telling the truth we typically agree with ourselves and Shake our heads
agree with ourselves and Shake our heads yes when we don't agree or don't like
yes when we don't agree or don't like something we often Shake our heads no we
something we often Shake our heads no we can sometimes also do this in disbelief
can sometimes also do this in disbelief like wow I cannot believe that just
like wow I cannot believe that just happened so I'm always looking for in
happened so I'm always looking for in congruent nods this happens a lot if you
congruent nods this happens a lot if you ask someone do you like the new
ask someone do you like the new girl yeah you know she's um
girl yeah you know she's um great right you see that 100% yeah all
great right you see that 100% yeah all the time and people they don't realize
the time and people they don't realize they're doing it but they're shaking
they're doing it but they're shaking their head no they do not like that
their head no they do not like that person you'll also see this with
person you'll also see this with mismatched facial expressions and the
mismatched facial expressions and the biggest one for liars the research finds
biggest one for liars the research finds is disgust so disgust is a expression
is disgust so disgust is a expression that people make without even realizing
that people make without even realizing it and this is across cultures when we
it and this is across cultures when we don't like something or we smell
don't like something or we smell something bad we crinkle our nose up and
something bad we crinkle our nose up and we Flash the upper whites of our teeth
we Flash the upper whites of our teeth and we go uh that so I you'll notice
and we go uh that so I you'll notice that Liars typically feel dirty when
that Liars typically feel dirty when they lie so oftentimes they'll show
they lie so oftentimes they'll show disgust with themselves for lying so
disgust with themselves for lying so you'll ask someone so what do you think
you'll ask someone so what do you think of the proposal yeah um
of the proposal yeah um it's really
it's really good and they might even sniff really
good and they might even sniff really yeah what's a
yeah what's a sniff um what do it signal oh it's it's
sniff um what do it signal oh it's it's a it's a it's a disgust activator like
a it's a it's a disgust activator like when we are disgusted our nasal cavities
when we are disgusted our nasal cavities want to close because we want to take in
want to close because we want to take in less of it and so even though it's not
less of it and so even though it's not about food it's about a preference Liars
about food it's about a preference Liars will often show a little bit of disgust
will often show a little bit of disgust when they are lying because they are
when they are lying because they are like a little bit disgusted with
like a little bit disgusted with themselves and so you'll see this
themselves and so you'll see this activation here by the way no one does
activation here by the way no one does that naturally like right this is a very
that naturally like right this is a very unnatural to hold my face but we do it
unnatural to hold my face but we do it when we feel disgusted it's a the nasal
when we feel disgusted it's a the nasal cavities when we we nasal dilate our
cavities when we we nasal dilate our nasal Wings dilate that's what it's
nasal Wings dilate that's what it's called like these nasal Wings dilate and
called like these nasal Wings dilate and we begin to scrunch them up it's like
we begin to scrunch them up it's like we're don't like what we're seeing
we're don't like what we're seeing smelling hearing so what I will do is I
smelling hearing so what I will do is I will share a proposal to someone I will
will share a proposal to someone I will talk about something and I watch for any
talk about something and I watch for any disgust so I'll say you know here's the
disgust so I'll say you know here's the plan for 2025 here's what we're going to
plan for 2025 here's what we're going to do and if I see
do and if I see [Music]
[Music] a I know that that team member or that
a I know that that team member or that person is like not that into it and
person is like not that into it and that's why I double click any questions
that's why I double click any questions how do you feel Stephen do you like this
how do you feel Stephen do you like this idea yeah I love it yeah no horrible
idea yeah I love it yeah no horrible horrible you look like you're about to
horrible you look like you're about to throw up by the way I heard you I heard
throw up by the way I heard you I heard you say that the most toxic
you say that the most toxic relationships are the ambivalent
relationships are the ambivalent relationships the word ambivalent means
relationships the word ambivalent means to what does it mean okay so ambivalent
to what does it mean okay so ambivalent is actually not toxic so toxic is like
is actually not toxic so toxic is like we know it's bad we don't want it we're
we know it's bad we don't want it we're creating boundaries around it ambivalent
creating boundaries around it ambivalent means
means we're not sure ambivalent relationships
we're not sure ambivalent relationships are the relationships in your life that
are the relationships in your life that are the most damaging they're the
are the most damaging they're the relationships where you wonder does she
relationships where you wonder does she like me do I like her g i I wish she
like me do I like her g i I wish she would cancel this dinner we have am I
would cancel this dinner we have am I tired after that I'm dreading it do I
tired after that I'm dreading it do I have to go gosh I wish I was home those
have to go gosh I wish I was home those are ambivalent relationships where
are ambivalent relationships where you're not sure and they are so
you're not sure and they are so energetically draining because a toxic
energetically draining because a toxic person you know they're toxic you're
person you know they're toxic you're like I don't like that person they're
like I don't like that person they're not serving me I'm not going out dinner
not serving me I'm not going out dinner I'm going home no thanks not going to
I'm going home no thanks not going to text you not going to tell you I'm
text you not going to tell you I'm thinking about you where an ambivalent
thinking about you where an ambivalent person you're like I should check in
person you're like I should check in with that person I really should go to
with that person I really should go to the dinner oh it's been five months
the dinner oh it's been five months since I've gone din with oh man do I
since I've gone din with oh man do I even know what they're up to these days
even know what they're up to these days do I even care and then most importantly
do I even care and then most importantly do they like me do they support me
do they like me do they support me that's why I asked about that friend
that's why I asked about that friend that you were like unsure about I was
that you were like unsure about I was like are they jealous do they have a
like are they jealous do they have a problem with you because you might be
problem with you because you might be picking up on they are ambivalent
picking up on they are ambivalent towards you and that is you're picking
towards you and that is you're picking up on that there's a research study that
up on that there's a research study that was done with police officers and they
was done with police officers and they wanted to know what makes for a thriving
wanted to know what makes for a thriving workplace so they asked police officers
workplace so they asked police officers to rank the people in their Precinct and
to rank the people in their Precinct and they found that the police officers who
they found that the police officers who had the most ambivalent ties were more
had the most ambivalent ties were more unhappy in their job had less work life
unhappy in their job had less work life balance had more workplace dress more
balance had more workplace dress more than the people who had toxic
than the people who had toxic relationships in other words the police
relationships in other words the police officers who said all 10 of those people
officers who said all 10 of those people are toxic we're happier at work and the
are toxic we're happier at work and the police officer who said I don't know if
police officer who said I don't know if I like that person and that person I
I like that person and that person I don't know if that person likes me I
don't know if that person likes me I don't know if I want to go out to lunch
don't know if I want to go out to lunch with that person again I kind of would
with that person again I kind of would rather be alone because it is so
rather be alone because it is so mentally draining to have ambivalent
mentally draining to have ambivalent relationships so it's really important
relationships so it's really important if you're making that list of people
if you're making that list of people going back to the very beginning you
going back to the very beginning you know the people you're really close not
know the people you're really close not very close with kind of close with
very close with kind of close with really close with if you're not sure put
really close with if you're not sure put them at the bottom and in the next 30
them at the bottom and in the next 30 days try to ask them the questions that
days try to ask them the questions that we shared working on anything exciting
we shared working on anything exciting what's your biggest goal right now and
what's your biggest goal right now and see if you like their answers it's
see if you like their answers it's important to either move them up or move
important to either move them up or move them out don't let them be ambivalent
them out don't let them be ambivalent one of the things that is highly
one of the things that is highly searched on Google I was looking at
searched on Google I was looking at Google to figure out um what the most
Google to figure out um what the most search questions are there's some tools
search questions are there's some tools that I use to to figure out what those
that I use to to figure out what those what people want to know and one of them
what people want to know and one of them was just Fally how do I start a
was just Fally how do I start a conversation so what my next book is
conversation so what my next book is about out so I'm happy to hear that okay
about out so I'm happy to hear that okay one is don't overthink your opener
one is don't overthink your opener starting a conversation is like hey I'm
starting a conversation is like hey I'm Vanessa like literally your opener can
Vanessa like literally your opener can just be that my sister my youngest
just be that my sister my youngest sister I was she was like the best
sister I was she was like the best advice I ever gave her ever and I was
advice I ever gave her ever and I was like what is it she was like is you just
like what is it she was like is you just told me to say hello to people and that
told me to say hello to people and that is it your opener is just hey I'm
is it your opener is just hey I'm Vanessa hey nice to meet you so don't
Vanessa hey nice to meet you so don't overthink the opener because that opener
overthink the opener because that opener your body is actually doing a lot of
your body is actually doing a lot of things your brain and body are like
things your brain and body are like competence warmth facial expression
competence warmth facial expression voice Tone If you're like what's your
voice Tone If you're like what's your biggest goal in
biggest goal in life it's it's way too much and so one
life it's it's way too much and so one is your opener should actually be basic
is your opener should actually be basic so the other person's brain is like
so the other person's brain is like gives them a chance to like safe okay
gives them a chance to like safe okay friend we're friend hey how are you
friend we're friend hey how are you doing right I I my friend Q I held up my
doing right I I my friend Q I held up my hand so don't overthink your opener hey
hand so don't overthink your opener hey nice to meet you hey I'm Vanessa your
nice to meet you hey I'm Vanessa your first question is where things get more
first question is where things get more interesting okay so if you don't know
interesting okay so if you don't know their name you want to say like oh
their name you want to say like oh what's your name great I'm Vanessa then
what's your name great I'm Vanessa then you have a choice
you have a choice and I like to take the better route you
and I like to take the better route you can say so what do you do but I really
can say so what do you do but I really don't like that path it's autopilot so
don't like that path it's autopilot so what I like to do instead is ask a
what I like to do instead is ask a version of the excitement question do
version of the excitement question do anything fun and exciting this past
anything fun and exciting this past weekend if it's a Monday so Mondays I
weekend if it's a Monday so Mondays I always ask you do anything fun this past
always ask you do anything fun this past weekend Fridays I always ask have any
weekend Fridays I always ask have any exciting plans coming up this weekend
exciting plans coming up this weekend and then Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I
and then Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I don't talk to
anyone what is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should
we haven't talked about that we should have talked about for the person side at
have talked about for the person side at home the typical question most prolific
home the typical question most prolific question that you get there's one story
question that you get there's one story that I love that I try to keep front of
that I love that I try to keep front of mind which is about Harry S Truman
mind which is about Harry S Truman former US president most people don't
former US president most people don't know about him is that he was actually
know about him is that he was actually severely introverted and when most
severely introverted and when most people think about US presidents they do
people think about US presidents they do not think about introverts in fact most
not think about introverts in fact most presidents have to be kind of a booming
presidents have to be kind of a booming extrovert personality and he was very
extrovert personality and he was very introverted and he did something very
introverted and he did something very interesting at the Democratic National
interesting at the Democratic National Convention back in I believe 1944
Convention back in I believe 1944 um he knew he was not a good public
um he knew he was not a good public speaker which also is very rare for US
speaker which also is very rare for US president to become president without
president to become president without being a good public speaker he knew he
being a good public speaker he knew he could not cut it on stage with the very
could not cut it on stage with the very charismatic people and he was not he was
charismatic people and he was not he was behind in the polls he was not the
behind in the polls he was not the preferred candidate so he was like I'm
preferred candidate so he was like I'm not going to compete on stage I'm not
not going to compete on stage I'm not going to try to outspeak them I'm not
going to try to outspeak them I'm not going to try to go work the floor and
going to try to go work the floor and shake hands it's not my way what I am
shake hands it's not my way what I am going to do is try to find a way to do
going to do is try to find a way to do what I'm best at which is one-on-one
what I'm best at which is one-on-one conversations where I can win people
conversations where I can win people over with an argument
over with an argument so in the Democratic National Convention
so in the Democratic National Convention it was really hot in Chicago in the
it was really hot in Chicago in the middle of summer he rented the one air
middle of summer he rented the one air conditioned room in the bottom in the
conditioned room in the bottom in the basement of the convention center and
basement of the convention center and one by one his team would invite person
one by one his team would invite person by person down into that air condition
by person down into that air condition room and he would tell them his story he
room and he would tell them his story he would tell them his points and vote by
would tell them his points and vote by vote and as the votes were being tallied
vote and as the votes were being tallied he would win over every single person
he would win over every single person that went to that room one it was air
that went to that room one it was air conditioned so they wanted to stay there
conditioned so they wanted to stay there as long as possible two he would hear
as long as possible two he would hear what are your concerns why do you not
what are your concerns why do you not want to vote for me and he would explain
want to vote for me and he would explain to them why they should vote for him and
to them why they should vote for him and vote by vote he ended up winning the
vote by vote he ended up winning the National Convention without having to
National Convention without having to speak on stage barely at all I share
speak on stage barely at all I share this because stop competing on stages
this because stop competing on stages where you can't be your best start
where you can't be your best start creating rooms where you can think about
creating rooms where you can think about what are your social strengths you have
what are your social strengths you have one what is it is it storytelling is it
one what is it is it storytelling is it being funny is it listening is it being
being funny is it listening is it being empathetic is it being a decoder is it
empathetic is it being a decoder is it being persuasive what is your social
being persuasive what is your social strength create spaces and rooms where
strength create spaces and rooms where you can exercise that strength because
you can exercise that strength because no one wants you to pretend to be an
no one wants you to pretend to be an extrovert or pretend to be something
extrovert or pretend to be something that you're good at that you're not it's
that you're good at that you're not it's much better to be do what you're
much better to be do what you're actually good at and attract the right
actually good at and attract the right people and your social strength might
people and your social strength might not be in person might not be and that's
not be in person might not be and that's okay like there are some people who are
okay like there are some people who are great at texting there are some people
great at texting there are some people who are great at sending voice notes
who are great at sending voice notes there are some people who make their
there are some people who make their friends by broadcasting and then picking
friends by broadcasting and then picking out a couple people that's how you met
out a couple people that's how you met your girlfriend is you broadcasted she
your girlfriend is you broadcasted she resonated with something that you said
resonated with something that you said and you gave her the way to find you she
and you gave her the way to find you she did and then you met so maybe it's
did and then you met so maybe it's broadcasting I think we have to think
broadcasting I think we have to think outside the box it's not only in person
outside the box it's not only in person there's so many ways you can have social
there's so many ways you can have social strengths I've heard it all now yeah I
strengths I've heard it all now yeah I get it I believe it I'm into it yeah
get it I believe it I'm into it yeah what is step one I'm going to buy your
what is step one I'm going to buy your books there's two of them here so I'm
books there's two of them here so I'm going to buy both of these books both of
going to buy both of these books both of them will be linked below what else can
them will be linked below what else can I do to start on my journey of becoming
I do to start on my journey of becoming you you were a recovering awkward person
you you were a recovering awkward person you before now you're not yes what's
you before now you're not yes what's step one okay step number one is begin
step one okay step number one is begin to break autopilot so make a commitment
to break autopilot so make a commitment for the next 30 days you are not going
for the next 30 days you are not going to trigger autopilot in your
to trigger autopilot in your conversation no more what do you do no
conversation no more what do you do no more how are you no more where are you
more how are you no more where are you from no more okay right ask better
from no more okay right ask better questions okay what's your biggest goal
questions okay what's your biggest goal we can anything exciting you're
we can anything exciting you're disgusting me no I'm thinking I'm just I
disgusting me no I'm thinking I'm just I was tell you look
was tell you look good okay so that's challenge number one
good okay so that's challenge number one Challenge number two find out where you
Challenge number two find out where you fall in the warmth and competence scale
fall in the warmth and competence scale are you highly warmed do you need to
are you highly warmed do you need to dial up competence to be taken more
dial up competence to be taken more seriously are you highly confident you
seriously are you highly confident you need dial up warm to be seen as more
need dial up warm to be seen as more like a and friendly and trustworthy do
like a and friendly and trustworthy do that email audit so take the quiz then
that email audit so take the quiz then do the email audit and then if you can
do the email audit and then if you can here's the bonus challenge send the
here's the bonus challenge send the Charisma quiz to someone who knows you
Charisma quiz to someone who knows you well someone at work maybe a partner ask
well someone at work maybe a partner ask them to take it as you and screenshot
them to take it as you and screenshot their results sometimes how we perceive
their results sometimes how we perceive our warmth and competence is not how
our warmth and competence is not how others perceive our warmth and
others perceive our warmth and competence so if you take it and you say
competence so if you take it and you say I'm perfect I'm a I'm a five of five but
I'm perfect I'm a I'm a five of five but they take it and they see you as really
they take it and they see you as really high on the warmth scale that is going
high on the warmth scale that is going to be critical feedback for you we have
to be critical feedback for you we have a closing tradition on this podcast
a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question
where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who
for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for and
they're going to be leaving it for and the question that's been left for
the question that's been left for you I always love
you I always love these when in your life did you try to
these when in your life did you try to outrun your pain and what was the
outrun your pain and what was the consequence when in your life did you
consequence when in your life did you turn and face your pain and what was the
turn and face your pain and what was the consequence
consequence there was a really weird moment in my
there was a really weird moment in my career where everything was taking off I
career where everything was taking off I had a lot of years of not of a lot of
had a lot of years of not of a lot of hard struggle and being a writer I had a
hard struggle and being a writer I had a a published book traditionally published
a published book traditionally published book that completely failed 2011 we
book that completely failed 2011 we won't name it put it out there thought
won't name it put it out there thought my world would change and it did
my world would change and it did terribly I got terrible reviews it
terribly I got terrible reviews it didn't sell and I was literally told
didn't sell and I was literally told you'll never write a book again and I
you'll never write a book again and I was just
was just devastated
devastated devastated and my husband was like you
devastated and my husband was like you got to you got to keep writing you're a
got to you got to keep writing you're a writer you got to keep writing and so I
writer you got to keep writing and so I went back to it I started science of
went back to it I started science of people that was officially when I
people that was officially when I started like the actual website science
started like the actual website science people kept writing and then it started
people kept writing and then it started taking off I had video videos that went
taking off I had video videos that went viral we started having millions of
viral we started having millions of visitors on the website and I wanted to
visitors on the website and I wanted to prove myself very badly and I wanted to
prove myself very badly and I wanted to erase that painful memory and so when I
erase that painful memory and so when I got approached to write
got approached to write Captivate I was like
Captivate I was like no I can't write books I'm I'm a
no I can't write books I'm I'm a YouTuber and a blogger but I can't write
YouTuber and a blogger but I can't write books and she was like this will be a
books and she was like this will be a different kind of book this will be a
different kind of book this will be a book about really what you want to say
book about really what you want to say to people not the book you think you
to people not the book you think you should write and I was like no I was
should write and I was like no I was like I cannot do it it's too painful I
like I cannot do it it's too painful I will not survive if that fails I will
will not survive if that fails I will not survive if that fails and it took
not survive if that fails and it took Nikki months of telling me this will be
Nikki months of telling me this will be different this will be a different kind
different this will be a different kind of book you can write the real book that
of book you can write the real book that you really want to write and so I said
you really want to write and so I said yes I started writing it and that was
yes I started writing it and that was when I think I I don't know how end the
when I think I I don't know how end the question was but decided it would be
question was but decided it would be worth the pain if that failed it would
worth the pain if that failed it would be worth the pain of at least saying
be worth the pain of at least saying that I tried that was a very hard Choice
that I tried that was a very hard Choice thank goodness it did not fail he did
thank goodness it did not fail he did really well um and I'm eternally
really well um and I'm eternally grateful for that when everyone when
grateful for that when everyone when anyone buys a copy I'm like one click
anyone buys a copy I'm like one click further from that
further from that failure horrible failure Vanessa thank
failure horrible failure Vanessa thank you thank you so much
you thank you so much um what you write about and what you
um what you write about and what you educate people on is a subject that's
educate people on is a subject that's probably more important now than ever
probably more important now than ever and I say that because of the sort of
and I say that because of the sort of macro climate of society where we're
macro climate of society where we're more lonely than ever we're struggling
more lonely than ever we're struggling with connection it's not coming
with connection it's not coming naturally to us as it once probably did
naturally to us as it once probably did or at least more natural than it than it
or at least more natural than it than it does now and so many the it's crazy I've
does now and so many the it's crazy I've only been a podcaster really I think for
only been a podcaster really I think for about four years like I think I started
about four years like I think I started in 2017 but really it's been four years
in 2017 but really it's been four years since I've been uploading and it's crazy
since I've been uploading and it's crazy just in that time alone how many more of
just in that time alone how many more of the questions I'm getting are about all
the questions I'm getting are about all the things you write about they're about
the things you write about they're about like how to make a friend and how to
like how to make a friend and how to show up in a certain way and all these
show up in a certain way and all these kinds of things so what the work you're
kinds of things so what the work you're doing is so unbelievably important
doing is so unbelievably important there's so much more that needs to be
there's so much more that needs to be done as well but but the contribution
done as well but but the contribution you've had to the 400,000 people that
you've had to the 400,000 people that you've taught and the millions of people
you've taught and the millions of people that have bought these books and
that have bought these books and consumed your videos and everything is a
consumed your videos and everything is a really really important one than so
really really important one than so thank you it's so funny because even me
thank you it's so funny because even me like like people I people see me on
like like people I people see me on camera and stuff but I learned so much
camera and stuff but I learned so much so much from your work so much thank you
so much from your work so much thank you so much so many things as well that that
so much so many things as well that that I that I think a lot about and you know
I that I think a lot about and you know things you can take or Leave You got to
things you can take or Leave You got to say like who do I want to be and like
say like who do I want to be and like who am I you know truly to then apply
who am I you know truly to then apply these things because there's no point
these things because there's no point like I just have no interest in building
like I just have no interest in building a facade or anything but there's things
a facade or anything but there's things about me which I H I didn't even
about me which I H I didn't even know I was doing that you know yeah and
know I was doing that you know yeah and like what kind of friend do I want to be
like what kind of friend do I want to be what kind of partner do I want to be
what kind of partner do I want to be what kind of way do I want to be in
what kind of way do I want to be in conversation like you get to choose
conversation like you get to choose Thank you Vanessa thanks for having me
Thank you Vanessa thanks for having me when it comes to food I trust my gut and
when it comes to food I trust my gut and I trust Zoe a business I'm an investor
I trust Zoe a business I'm an investor in and today's sponsor of this podcast
in and today's sponsor of this podcast all the nutritionists I've spoken to
all the nutritionists I've spoken to have highlighted just how misleading
have highlighted just how misleading information is out there when it comes
information is out there when it comes to food take healthy Halos the claims
to food take healthy Halos the claims you see on packaging that say things
you see on packaging that say things like low sugar and nothing artificial
like low sugar and nothing artificial are often a sign of foods to avoid have
are often a sign of foods to avoid have you ever noticed a health claim on fresh
you ever noticed a health claim on fresh fruit you probably get my point
fruit you probably get my point understandably there's loads of distrust
understandably there's loads of distrust out there who should you turn to for
out there who should you turn to for accurate information I U Zoey which is
accurate information I U Zoey which is backed by one of the world's largest
backed by one of the world's largest microbiome databases and most
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whenever you need it as a Zoe member you'll get an atome test kit and
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zoe.com and use my code stepen 10 for 10% off your membership that's zoe.com
10% off your membership that's zoe.com code Steven 10 trust your gut trust Zoe
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