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The Fat Burning Expert: The REAL Reason You’re Not Losing Belly Fat (and How To Fix It Fast!)

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Summary

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This content is a comprehensive discussion on evidence-based strategies for fat loss and muscle gain, featuring expert Allan Aragon, who debunks common myths and provides practical advice on nutrition, training, and supplementation.

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I asked my audience for their 15 most

more in quotes anabolic than plant

proteins meaning that they stimulate a greater

greater

growth response

>> of muscle

>> at the muscle level. So they stimulate

muscle protein synthesis more potently

than plant proteins. And

And

there are there's maybe one exception to

that that we know of which is mop

protein which is a fungusbased protein

that actually outperformed milk protein

for stimulating muscle protein

synthesis. So there's interesting

exceptions like that but generally

speaking animal proteins are better for

muscle protein synthesis than plant

proteins. Now, with that said, Stephen,

once you consume a certain amount of

total daily protein, then it doesn't

appear to matter how much of your

protein is animal-based versus how much

your pro your protein is plant-based. If

we're looking at things like muscle size

and strength gain because this has been

actually compared in controlled

interventions where um vegan group has

been compared with an omnivore group and

total daily protein was optimized at 1.6

g per kilogram of body weight per day

or.7 g per pound in both groups.

Progressive resistance training for 12

weeks. no significant differences

between groups in muscle size and

strength gain whether it was a

omnivorous protein intake or whether it

was a plant-based protein intake and we

have two studies showing that now

>> you must have so many moments where

you're working with someone through your

career who's got a goal and he feels

like they just can't accomplish it where

you find yourself saying the same thing

over and over again to people about how

to lose fat or to gain muscle mass is

that same thing just to have more protein.

protein.

>> It's a common thing with the general

population, with the lay public. Like my

my protein target is at least 160 grams

a day. So,

I just make sure that I have four meals

with at least 40 g of protein per day.

And it's so easy to do. It's incredibly

easy to do because two of my meals per

day are just real whole foods. And then

two of my meals per day, two to three,

are protein smoothies. And so, uh, it is

just so incredibly easy for me to to get

my protein intake through. Like two

scoops of protein, bam, that's almost 50

grams of protein right there. Right

there. So, you have two of those a day,

I've got more than half my protein covered.

covered.

>> But if I if I have all of my protein in

one meal, >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> is that going to impact my ability to

gain muscle or lose fat if I have it all

in one meal? If I just have like one

massive protein shake, if I put like

five scoops. Now, if you were telling

me, "Hey, Allan, I want to place really

good in the Nationals this year, the NPC

Nationals, classic classic physique or,

you know, classic bodybuilding or just

any one of the physique divisions,

I would say, you know, you you are not

going to want to try to get all your

protein in a single meal because what we

want to do is we want to maximize the

number of microanabolic

events in the course of the day. We want

to maximize the amount of times you

maximally stimulate muscle protein

synthesis in the course of the day. And

just from a a pragmatic standpoint, you

could probably do that at least three or

four times. And if you're able to do

that three or four times in a day versus

once with that one big banger of a meal,

then you might actually over time gain

more muscle than you would have. And

this could make the difference between

placings at the end of the uh end of the

prep period. So, but as somebody in the

general population,

theoretically you could

>> I am going to challenge you to do

something here. I asked my audience

about weight loss and asked them for

their 15 most popular questions that are

currently unanswered for them.

>> All right.

>> About weight loss.

>> The first one was, "How do I lose weight fast?"

fast?"

>> So essentially, you can engage

what would could be classified as a as a

as a protein sparing modified fast.

You're basically crash dieting. Um,

I don't love doing that though, honestly.

honestly.

>> Listen, I've got a wedding. I need to I

need to lose weight fast. How do I lose

weight fast?

>> Losing weight fast. So, you would

basically do an aggressive caloric

deficit. So, anywhere I I would say

20% below your maintenance needs. 20 to

possibly 40 depending on the individual

percent below your maintenance needs.

And then keep the protein high. And this

is going to default you to relatively

low carbohydrate, relatively low fat,

and just train regularly. Don't hurt

yourself. Um,

>> protein high, you said.

>> Yeah, protein high. And calories wise,

so for example,

if you maintained at we we'll just take

a round number, 2,000 calories. So you

would just lop off about a third of that

and then just go and see if you can

maintain your fat loss while maintaining

strength levels relatively. You're it's

almost inevitable to crash diet and uh

lose some strength in the process. But I

mean we're we're talking about something

that's not an optimal process. But yeah,

that that's that's the game basically.

Aggressive caloric deficit, keep protein

very high and then you just go and the

deficit could be anywhere from 500 to

a,000ish calories below what you

normally take in.

>> The second one is why do I regain weight

after stopping a Zmpeek, WGO, etc.

All right. So those GLP-1

RAS, the recep GLP-1 receptor agonist

they have um at least three different

mechanisms that all converge towards

almost nullifying your your hunger and

your appetite response. And so when you

cut out the drug, then your normal

appetite comes back. And

And

an unfortunate reality for a lot of uh

GLP1 users when they get off the drug is

they just don't have the habits and they

don't have the skills necessarily to

maintain their weight loss. And of

course, once again, they're fighting

their appetite. So I would say

perhaps try um a weaning off process

instead of just a jumping off process. A

weaning off process where you are reinforcing

reinforcing

countermeasures to overeating, where you

are reinforcing

good training habits and good dietary

habits. And we're al where you're also

progressively learning how to live with

and deal with sensations of hunger

between meals. and just train those

habits in. And uh it can be done. I I I

I'm not one of the people in the camp

who says it's impossible to get off of a

weight loss drug successfully.

>> So number three again is is my

metabolism damaged after dieting? And

they're asking a question here about

something called adaptive thermogenesis.

>> Yeah. Okay. So this is not really a

short shot here. So the the process of

metabolic adaptation is kind of complex

and it happens in both directions

whether you try to gain weight or

whether you try to lose weight. So

earlier we talked about uh an increase

in non exercise activity thermogenesis

or NEAt an increase in NEAt in response

to an increase in calories. So that

occurs and across studies. I I gave an

example that showed a 336

calorie increase in NEAt when a thousand

calories were stacked on top of people's

maintenance. But there are other studies

where the caloric increase was not quite

that aggressive. And so so on average

increases in

NEAT or non-ex exercise activity

thermogenesis are about 2 to 300

calories. So you increase your energy

expenditure about two to 300 calories if

you're overeating.

>> Yeah. So your body will start to twitch

more and move more burning more

non-active calories. That's correct.

>> When you're overeating. Yeah. So that's

an that's an adaptation.

>> That that's the adaptation in the

caloric surplus side. So in the caloric

deficit side,

it's just the opposite thing, just the

mirror of it. So people decrease their

non-ex exercise activity thermogenesis

or their need. They decrease it on

average like two to threeish hundred calories.

calories. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> As a result of dieting. So this is part

of a metabolic adaptation that occurs

with dieting.

>> Is this why people don't think the

calories in calories out system is

working for them sometimes? because they

don't realize that if they're in a

calorie deficit, sometimes they are

subconsciously moving around less, which

means that they're burning less

calories. Um, so actually they're not in

a calorie deficit.

>> Yes, that's correct. So with the dieting

side of things, which is much more of a

public health issue, weight loss is is

much more of a a necessity than the

weight gain.

It's it's tougher for most people

because in addition to the decrease in

non-ex exercise activity that'll cost

people two to 300ish calories that

they're no longer uh no longer burning

at the end of the dieting cycle. Then

you've got

what's called adaptive thermo reduction.

Okay. So you mentioned adaptive thermogenesis.

thermogenesis.

Technically that is the there's

non-shivering adaptive thermogenesis and

there's shivering adaptive

thermogenesis. But that all has to do

with increases in energy expenditure in

response to cold environments. So that's

technically that's what adaptive

thermogenesis is. It's an increase in

energy expenditure. When people diet,

there's something called adaptive thermo reduction.

reduction.

And that is that part of it is a

decrease in non-ex exercise activity thermogenesis.

thermogenesis.

>> You're you're basically saying that the

body changes when we're in a calorie deficit.

deficit.

>> It stops doing as much.

>> Yes. That's the activity part. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But then there's also the metabolic

part. So we've got a decrease in non-ex

exercise activity. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Then we have adaptive thermo reduction

which has to do with a a metabolic

component that has to do with the

sympathetic nervous system and also

potentially thyroid output as well. So

there's this metabolic change that goes

on and there's behavioral or activity

change that goes on. So when people say

I've got a slow metabolism,

>> they might be telling the truth.

>> When people say I have a slow

metabolism, what's usually happening is

they have a pretty massive drop in NEAT

or non-ex exercise activity to the order

of 2 to 300 calories. Now adaptive

thermo reduction is another 50 to 100 calories.

calories.

>> Okay? So, we're looking at in the

neighborhood of like possibly three 400

calories that they're no longer burning

as a result of the dieting process. Now,

if you take somebody with um clinically

diagnosed hypothyroidism,

then their resting metabolic rate could

be 7 to 10% lower than somebody without

a thyroid issue. So you add another one

to 200 calories less burned over here.

Then you have the potential for five to

600 calories of energy expenditure that

this person is challenged with uh at the

end of their dieting cycle. So they're

>> so I guess it is kind of true in a in a

way that people understand it that if

you overeat your metabolism as far as

they understand what their metabolism is

is increasing and if you undereat then

your metabolism is slowing down.

>> Yes. But I have to emphasize the major

component that slows down is your non

exercise activity.

>> You're not moving around as much.

>> Yes. the other components like adaptive

thermal reduction and potential thyroid

issues. That is the minor component. The

major component is a drop in fidgeting,

a slowing of the rate that you walk

around, an increase in the amount you

sit around,

>> and you can control that.

>> Yes, it's it's hard to put a put a

finger on it, but as long as you know

that stuff goes down, I give you an

example of uh physique competitors.

They are

as their cutting cutting phase

progresses, they're literally lying

around in between their cardio sessions

and their resistance training sessions

and their Tupperware meal sessions.

>> Okay? They're no longer tapping their

heads bo, you know, tapping their

fingers and bobbing their heads and

they're no longer have a pep in their

step. They're no longer doing non

exercise activities, basically. Question

four, what diet actually works best for

long-term weight loss? Keto, low-fat,

Mediterranean, intermittent fasting. And

I'll say it in one sentence.

The diet with enough protein, enough

total calories

that is comprised predominantly of

healthy food choices

that fits the individual's personal

preferences and tolerances.

>> How do I lose belly fat specifically?

Can you target the belly?

Targeting belly fat specifically is a

matter of targeting total body fat. You can't

can't necessarily

necessarily

spot reduce the the belly fat. Now, if

we're go a layer deeper, it is possible

for certain diets to be more conducive

to preventing visceral fat gain or maybe

even accelerating visceral fat loss.

Visceral fat is the fat uh in the within

the abdominal cavity around the the

organs. And so it is possible for

certain diets to be more conducive to

reductions in visceral fat. And that

would be diets that have a lower

proportion of saturated fat,

>> which is what's what's an example of a

saturated fat food?

>> Land fatty land animal meats. So land

animal fats are going to be your

saturated fats that are more conducive

to visceral fat gain. So if you were to

switch out, let's say fatty cuts of

meat, just trim that fat out and if you

replaced it with something like avocado

nuts, olive oil, seeds

>> on menopause, why is fat loss harder and

what actually works?

>> Okay. During the menopausal transition,

which begins at a woman's mid-40s on

average and then ends in in the mid-50s,

there are changes physiologically and hormonally

hormonally

that can challenge a fitness program.

So, it can challenge their ability to

execute the fitness program and adhere

to it. And so things like hot flashes

and joint pain, changes in sexual function

function

and poor sleep.

All of those things can converge to

lead to a a decreased ability to stick

to a program and do the necessary

physical activity and dietary adherence

to reach the sort of the standard rate

of progress for body composition change.

And so the solution to that would be

simply you don't have to rearrange a

whole program because somebody's going

through menopause. You don't have to cut

out nutrients and do any special things.

What has been effective is just lowering

the expectation of progress. So whereas

I would typically have somebody gun for

a pound a week of fat loss, somebody in

the menopausal transition, they have

more challenges to that going on

simultaneously. So we would go for about

half of that >> protein.

>> protein.

What do what do they do in terms of

protein? Just keep the protein high.

>> Same range. Yeah. So, with protein, I

got to say there's sort of a two-tiered

recommendation. So, the general public

with average goals >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> will do just fine on 1.2 to 1.6 g per

kilogram of body weight. That's kind of

like the general population average

goal, folks. somebody like yourself, uh,

somebody like me and folks who are

oriented towards maybe pushing the

envelope a little bit more than the average

average

1.6 to 2.2 g per kilogram of body

weight. And you know, there's a little

margin over here for people on the

fringe physique competitors who I would

have no problem seeing them go higher

than that 2.2 g per kilogram cut off. Is

there anything else that

Perry or menopause or women need to

understand about gaining muscle and

keeping fat off when they're going

through menopause? Is there anything

>> You know, I I would just emphasize the

understanding that midlife presents

maybe the highest point of uh

psychological stress in in people's

lives. So starting from the late 40s

going all the way into people's 50s and

60s it's it's like that you know the

concentrated period in the menopausal

transition mid-40s to mid-50s is when

people are dealing with ailing parents

the stress of ailing parents the stress

of kids going through high school or

college. The stress of hitting a high

point in their careers. The pressures

thereof. the time and the energy that is

necessary to allocate for all of those things.

things. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> All of those things distract from, oh,

I've got a fitness program here. Oh, my

coach is making me do this and this and

this and now he's making me diet like this.

this.

That's the thing that I I would

emphasize. There's nothing special or

different that needs to be done. And in

fact, there's a lot of mythology that's

circulating the space right now where

coaches and gurus and even some

physicians are telling women that they

are just doomed to gain a bunch of belly

fat and lose a bunch of muscle during

menopause. It just happens. You're

doomed. Well, that's just not true. Uh

there is a study called the Swan study.

That's the longest and largest study of

its kind. And the average amount of fat

gain during the entire menopausal

transition was 1.6 kilograms which is 3

and a half pounds. And the average

amount of muscle loss total during the

menopausal transition was 0.2 kg. That's

about half half a pound of muscle loss.

Statistically significant? Yes.

Insurmountable? No. So, and are there

going to be outliers who experience

double the muscle loss and double the

fat gain of that? Yes.

But none of this is insurmountable.

>> What do you think about taking is it

>> Yeah. Well, well, it it helps those who

need it. So, HRT should be looked at on

an individual basis. One of the things

that really annoys the absolute crap out

of me is when I'm seeing the comment

sections on social media with people

telling everybody that, "Hey, you just

turned 40. time to go on HRT.

That is between you and your doctor.

People are trying to universalize major

changes like HRT.

Some people definitely benefit from it.

And just the same, there are a lot of

people who don't need it.

>> The people that benefit from it, do they

find it easier to gain muscle mass and

to not gain fat? Is that kind of like what

what

>> that is a common

>> Okay. That is a common result. Yes. But

my thing with HRT is is this. So

there has to be a symptomologic reason

to get on it. So you have to be

incurring or experiencing

symptoms that are disrupting to your

quality of life.

>> Mhm. Regardless of what your blood labs

are, like for testosterone for example,

if you are out of range for testosterone

on the lower end, let's say, but you

have no symptoms and you feel fine, you

perform great in all aspects, then it's

really up to you whether it bugs you

enough that you're below range or lower

on the lower end of the range um to

correct that. It it's up to you. And so

symptomologically driven. Now the other

thing to look at with HRT is and a lot

of people they get a single testing

point and they judge their need to get

on hormonal replacement therapy based on

a single single test.

What people need to do is see whether

there is some sort of trend going on in

one direction or another or not. And if

that trend is going in a bad direction

over time, and you you can do this by

just multiple time points over over an

extended period, it's debatable, like 6

months, 12 months to see what's going

on. Try to correct things through

lifestyle and diet. And often they are

correctable. Um,

I've just I've come across many cases

where a guy will be underslept,

overworked, eating like crap, gets his

testosterone levels tested. Oh, you're

right at the bottom or you're even below

range. Oh, time for HRT. Well, hold on a

second. Let's get this guy some sleep.

Let's improve his lifestyle, improve

body composition, and then bang,

testosterone levels double. This is not

an uncommon thing. And so I'm very much

a proponent of

first, are there symptoms driving the

justification for HRT? And then

secondly, are we basing things on a

single time point or did we actually see

a trend over time?

>> My next question is about PCOS. Mhm.

>> A lot of women are struggling with PCOS

and that's causing them to have

irregular menstrual cycles and

um fertility issues.

What would you say to a woman who is

struggling with PCOS in terms of dietary prescription?

prescription?

>> Okay. So PCOS shares a lot of metabolic

characteristics with type 2 diabetes.

So um there is insulin resistance going

on there. There is impaired glycemic

control going on. And so we can pretty

much justify being cautious with total

amount of carbohydrate intake with um PCOS.

PCOS.

With type 2 diabetes there's two tiers

of importance dietarily. So of first

importance with type two diabetes, you

have to structure the diet so that it

allows body fat loss. The success of

GLP-1 drugs has actually proven that at

the heart of type 2 diabetes is overeating

overeating

uh an abundance of body fat. So the way

that type 2 diabetes happens is in

genetically predisposed individuals they

gain total body fat and then they gain

visceral fat an undue amount of visceral

fat and then this leads to insulin

resistance and impairment of glycemic control.

control.

So PCOS is is very similar in this

regard. uh there is no standard or

consensusbased PCOS diet protocol, but

because it shares so many similar

characteristics with type 2 diabetes,

then we can pretty much employ the same

principles of how we would intervene

with type two diabetes, which would

number one put a priority on total body

fat reduction. And then tier number two

would be all right, do we need to

restrict carbohydrates even further? And

so that would be very similar with with

PCOS. And at kind of a population level

with type two diabetes,

roughly 130ish grams of carbohydrates a

day seems to be sort of the sweet spot

uh below which people have an easier

time controlling their blood sugar than

above that total amount. But that's just

a statistical average. We still have to

look at things case by case.

>> My girlfriend, she um has PCOS and she

did the ketogenic diet with me. She's on

it at the moment. We've been doing it

for about eight weeks now. Mhm.

>> We we do it intermittently throughout

the years. Um and she said her menstrual

cycle has perfectly corrected itself. I

think at its maximum it was like 60 days

her menstrual cycle

>> and then because she's restricted her

carbohydrates as you were saying in in

in this way using keto it's it's like

she said it's perfect. It's like

perfectly predictable now.

>> That's awesome. I I I say that in part

because people I think people don't with

PCOS who have irregular menstrual cycles

don't often consider that

carbohydrates, sugar, glucose, whatever

could be the perpetrator.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well,

>> because it's framed as a disease like

you you were born with it. Maybe it's

heritable. Maybe there's an element of

truth to that. But um it's crazy that

that dietary intervention had such a

profound impact on her in particular.

>> It's glad to hear that you found

something that works. That's yeah that's

an you know that's anytime you present

>> with some sort of clinical condition I

would first tell you hey see see an

endocrinologist or see a doctor who

specializes in that particular issue

>> and in terms of menstrual cycles

generally if you do have an irregular

menstrual cycle is there anything you

should be thinking about

>> number one see a doctor number two

consider whether or not you are

overtraining and undereating

>> so what happens happens with female

physique competitors.

Menstrual disruption, menstrual

cessation a few months into prep,

sometimes even a few weeks in a prep,

depending on how aggressive the diet is.

And so the menstrual disruption is very

common in competitive athletes and in

recreational athletes who have to

maintain a certain level of leanness

while maintaining a high volume of

exercise output. Is that the body from

an evolutionary perspective saying,

"Listen, we we don't have the energy to

have a baby here, so we're just going to

shut this down."

>> That is right on. Yeah.

>> So, you kind of do you don't want to be

restricting your calorie consumption too

much if you have an irregular menstrual

cycle and you're trying to correct that.

>> Yeah. No. No. Um, the so-called female

athlete triad begins with overtraining,

undereating, potential eating disorder,

nurturing going on there. And then down

the line, the menstrual cycle gets

disrupted and stops. And then hormonal

changes happen that are negative. And

then that ultimately results in osteopenia,

osteopenia, osteoporosis.

osteoporosis.

And so that chain of events is

unfortunately really common with women

who um don't pay attention to a healthy

menstrual cycle.

>> People use this term all the time,

muscle memory. Mhm. Uh I thought it was

nonsense, but I spoke to someone the

other day and they said to me,

"Actually, no, your your body does have

a muscle memory, which means that if I

fall off now uh and I stop going to the

gym, my body is going to be able to get

back to my current physique faster

because I was here once upon a time.

>> Is this is this true?"

>> That is true. There's some debate going

on amongst the community what what goes

on physiologically with like when you

train you create you create new myoule

so you increase your so-called

myionuclear domains and those stay

relatively permanent even during times

of dtraining

but there's still the so-called

proprioceptive or motor component to

training that sticks with people sort of

the skill aspect of it that sticks with

people to be able to execute the

movements and do the things to cause the

adaptations. So, not only do you have

that muscle memory from the myionuclear

domain standpoint, but you have the

motor learning, the neurological

component, and to a degree you you also

have the skeletal component to be able

to capacitate those that rebound in

loading and muscle gain, muscle regain rather.

rather.

>> Is the gut microbiome playing a role in

Not a big one. Um, of course, if I

>> Why did you make that sound?

>> Well, there's some people in the space

who put the microbiome a as the master

regulator everything, but it's

definitely a part of the the axis of

organ systems that that manifest

whatever, you know, result we're looking

at. It's part of it. Yes.

But it's not the the it's not the main

puppeteer of everything. everything

works in concert to and and I'll just

give you an example there. So,

there are certain supplements that are um

that are claimed to be able to in quotes

fix the gut microbiome and cause greater

weight loss. So, there have been many

studies looking at this sort of phenomenon.

phenomenon.

And while there is a statistically

significant effect in some cases, the

absolute amount that they can help for

things like body fat loss or body weight

loss is usually not practically

significant. It's it's too small to be

considered meaningful. And so I wouldn't

necessarily rely on changes in the gut

microbiome for impacting like global

changes in body fat.

Here I have 20 eggs. I heard that you

eat 20 eggs per week, which is about,

you know, four eggs a day potentially.

Why do you eat so many eggs?

>> Well, number one, I'm one of those

weirdos who actually loves eggs. I love

I love the taste of them. Um, they're a

great source of protein. Uh, decent

source of fat, most of the fat, and

there is oleic acid, by the way, which

is a monounsaturate that predominates

olive oil. It's a low saturated fat

thing. Of course, the knock on eggs is

their cholesterol content. Um, but

interestingly, uh, it's dietary

saturated fat that has the greater

magnitude of impact on blood lipids than

than dietary cholesterol. Interestingly

enough, I recognize that the major

health agencies would want you to stop

your egg consumption to like one a day,

possibly two a day if you're an elderly

person. But I

take the uh health agencies um or even

the consensus guidelines as a okay,

that's cool. That's good starting point.

Um I happen to like eggs. I'll eat more

than that. Check my blood. Check my

health. I'm doing just fine. So, I'm one

of those people who can do four eggs a

day just fine.

>> Is this part of your broader

testosterone protocol?

>> I I like the fact that uh eggs are

conducive to testosterone production.

>> So, you're 53 years old, right? >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Do you test your testosterone levels? I

have not tested my testosterone levels

in forever, but I'm not concerned with

it because once again, it would be a

symptom-driven thing for me to even

care. So, if I was experiencing the

symptoms of low testosterone, then that

would give me a reason to check it out

and see what's going on. And then I

would have to take a step back and look

and see what can I modify with

lifestyle. What what do I have available

to change

non-drug-wise? And you know what? If I

ever need to take exogenous

testosterone, if that day ever comes,

well, then so be it. I'm just not there.

>> What supplements do you take every day?

>> I take a multivitamin. I take two

multivitamins, actually. Uh the reason

why I take two multivitamins is because

really certain key uh nutrients in there,

there,

they they have to be in such small

amounts per single pill that it's really

just meaningless. And so I take two

multivitamins, one of them with iron,

one of them without iron. And I also

take fish oil, uh I take magnesium, and

I take vitamin D3. I take vitamin C. And

and by the way, I really should preface

this with this is the bro science side

of my personal habits because I'm taking

my vitamins more on uh placing your bets

basis rather than hey man this is just

the bottom line evidence-based. I think

everybody should do this. Okay. So I

want I want to make sure that's clear. I

also take magnesium and I also take

collagen and I also take creatine. If I

told you you could only take three of

those supplements, which three would you pick?

pick?

>> That's a damn good question, man. Can I

have uh can can I'm going to count my

two multis as one.

>> So, your multivitamin would be would

that be the first one? >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, multivitamin

>> and omega-3s, the fish oil, vitamin D3.

>> So, you've you've sacked off the creatine.

creatine. [Laughter]

[Laughter]

That's those are those would be those

would be the top three. I would c Can I

add creatine in there? Could I squeeze

it in there? >> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

>> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No.

>> Oh, bro.

>> I had to pick three. So, you picked the

multivitamin, omega-3, the vitamin D3.

>> Well, it might humble me to kick the

creatine out. So, okay, fine. I'll leave

those three.

>> You call creatine king creatine. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Why' you call it that?

It's the only non-farmacological

supplement that that

really really has a very strong and deep

and broad evidence base for um enhancing

the effects of of resistance training.

So strength gains and size gains more

strength than size. The size gains they

they come with the initial uh loading

phase where a lot more intramuscular water

water

happens or you know intracellular intramiocellular

intramiocellular

hydration. That is the the big immediate

part of creatine that that folks feel

when they go on it and when they go off

of it. So you you'll lose a few pounds

of lean mass if you get off of creatine.

I call it kreat creatine because it has possibly

possibly

close to a I want to say it's reached

over a thousand studies and the majority

of those studies show um positive

effects. Usually with with creatine if

you were to compare a group taking

creatine versus a group not taking

creatine. So the creatine group will

have like a 20% increase in their

lifting capacity whereas the

non-creatine group will have like 12ish%

increase in their lifting capacity over

a typical study length 8 to 12 weeksish.

And so that is a significant strength

gain advantage and over the long term

that would definitely augment muscle

hypertrophy as well. And once you're

loaded with creatine, so being loaded

with creatine means that you saturate

your muscle creatine stores. And that

requires either a loading phase of 20 to

25 grams per day for 5 to 7 days or um a

maintenance phase that you engage like 3

to five grams a day. You'll be loaded at

um about 30 days. And so during that

loading phase, it's pretty common for

people to gain roughly 2% of their body

weight um as lean mass.

>> People seem to talk about creatine like

it's this miracle thing that everybody

should be taking. That's one of the one

of the few supplements that it seems all

the uh experts I speak to about this

stuff seem to agree upon. Obviously,

vitamin D, omega-3 comes up all the time

and ultivitamins,

but creatine seems to, you know, nobody

seems to have much of an issue with it

or be able to point to many side effects

of taking with it, both for men and women.

women.

>> Yeah, it's got the muscul muscularkeeletal

muscularkeeletal

um benefit there. Believe it or not,

there's even um benefits for creatine on

on joint health. So um not only that,

not only the the athletic performance

and muscle hypertrophy side, but there

are things like uh improved glucose

control, improved memory. So different

domains of cognition can be enhanced by creatine.

creatine.

The level of creatine in the brain can

increase with with supplementation. And

then you create a pro-energy environment

in the brain. And that's how uh these

positive effects on memory happen with

creatine supplementation, especially in

people with uh cognitive decline. So So

it there's almost nothing creatine can't do.

do. >> Wow.

Some statement.

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guest is here. Ready?

>> Come in.

>> Oh my god. What

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>> Diet breaks. What's a diet break and why

does that why is that a useful tool?

>> Yes. So,

one of the big things that dieters

encounter are progress plateaus. And so,

we can define a progress plateau as four

to possibly 8 weeks of no change in body

composition despite good compliance to

the program. With that definition out of

the way, then intervening and overcoming

or managing a plateau is really sort of

this individualized process that

needs to be looked at case by case where

for example,

if somebody feels like they're in the

midst of a plateau and they have been on

program, then there's really only two

reasons the plateau happened. So reason

number one is that their compliance was

inconsistent. So poor compliance is

number one or number two they have reached

reached

energy equilibrium. So they've reached a

genuine and bonafide new maintenance

point. But there's something that is

overarching with the plateau concept

that people need to understand.

So we automatically look at progress

plateaus as something negative. when

people need to reorganize or reframe their perception of what a plateau is

their perception of what a plateau is and the plateau is just the body doing

and the plateau is just the body doing its job. When we look at the body as an

its job. When we look at the body as an adaptive survival unit then homeostasis

adaptive survival unit then homeostasis is a big part of that. So if the body

is a big part of that. So if the body achieves homeostasis then hallelujah

achieves homeostasis then hallelujah we're we're going to live. We're going

we're we're going to live. We're going to survive. So if for example somebody

to survive. So if for example somebody has a lot of weight to lose let's say

has a lot of weight to lose let's say somewhere to the order of over 20 pounds

somewhere to the order of over 20 pounds 20 40 60 lbs to lose they have to

20 40 60 lbs to lose they have to understand that multiple plateaus will

understand that multiple plateaus will be encountered on route to their

be encountered on route to their ultimate goal.

ultimate goal. And the way that the body changes is

And the way that the body changes is always going to be this surge, slow,

always going to be this surge, slow, stop pattern. And it just continues this

stop pattern. And it just continues this way. And with every progressive plateau,

way. And with every progressive plateau, the surge part gets shorter and the

the surge part gets shorter and the slowing part and then the plateau part

slowing part and then the plateau part gets longer. So you can think of it as

gets longer. So you can think of it as staircases and landings. So with each

staircases and landings. So with each successive plateau, the staircase gets

successive plateau, the staircase gets shorter, the landing gets longer, but

shorter, the landing gets longer, but it's supposed to go like that and the

it's supposed to go like that and the plateaus should be getting longer

plateaus should be getting longer because the ultimate goal after all is a

because the ultimate goal after all is a plateau of sorts. And when people come

plateau of sorts. And when people come to realize that, then they can look at

to realize that, then they can look at plateaus as what I call maintenance

plateaus as what I call maintenance practice. So if they have that mental

practice. So if they have that mental shift from seeing plateaus as this

shift from seeing plateaus as this negative thing where I need to go sniff

negative thing where I need to go sniff out the next great diet or the next

out the next great diet or the next great product, they can look at it as

great product, they can look at it as all right, so the plateau is a good

all right, so the plateau is a good thing. The body is doing its job. Now we

thing. The body is doing its job. Now we have an opportunity to practice

have an opportunity to practice maintenance. And think about it this way

maintenance. And think about it this way too, Stephen. Anybody can get weight

too, Stephen. Anybody can get weight off,

off, but weight loss maintenance really is

but weight loss maintenance really is the issue. So the better you get at

the issue. So the better you get at weight loss maintenance, then the more

weight loss maintenance, then the more you can win the game.

you can win the game. >> How do I get good at weight loss

>> How do I get good at weight loss maintenance?

maintenance? >> All right. So in order to properly

>> All right. So in order to properly maintain,

maintain, you have to properly get there. So

you have to properly get there. So properly getting there means that you

properly getting there means that you have to

have to do your best to maintain your lean body

do your best to maintain your lean body mass while you're losing body fat. So

mass while you're losing body fat. So what happens to a lot of people when

what happens to a lot of people when they diet is they lose a lot of lean

they diet is they lose a lot of lean body mass along with

body mass along with >> lean body mass. You mean muscle?

>> lean body mass. You mean muscle? >> Yes. Muscle mass.

>> Yes. Muscle mass. >> Muscle mass

>> Muscle mass >> along with their fat mass. And so muscle

>> along with their fat mass. And so muscle tissue is something very important to

tissue is something very important to keep on the body while you're losing fat

keep on the body while you're losing fat because muscle is we can look at it as

because muscle is we can look at it as our metabolically

our metabolically active. Every tissue is metabolically

active. Every tissue is metabolically active even even body fat. But muscle

active even even body fat. But muscle tissue specifically is the center of our

tissue specifically is the center of our dietary fuel usage. It is the metabolic

dietary fuel usage. It is the metabolic engine of the body, if you will. And so

engine of the body, if you will. And so if you're losing muscle tissue, you're

if you're losing muscle tissue, you're really losing metabolic leverage while

really losing metabolic leverage while you're losing body fat.

you're losing body fat. >> So the way that I infer that is that

>> So the way that I infer that is that muscle is very greedy

muscle is very greedy >> and it it it takes a lot takes up a lot

>> and it it it takes a lot takes up a lot of calories. So if I lose my muscle when

of calories. So if I lose my muscle when I get when I drop my weight, it's almost

I get when I drop my weight, it's almost like the greedy guy who who sucks up all

like the greedy guy who who sucks up all my calories is no longer there. And so

my calories is no longer there. And so I'm quite likely just to to rebound

I'm quite likely just to to rebound quite quickly.

quite quickly. >> That's a great analogy. And and it's

>> That's a great analogy. And and it's accurate, too. And in fact, there is a

accurate, too. And in fact, there is a phenomenon that in the literature it's

phenomenon that in the literature it's called collateral fattening.

called collateral fattening. And that happens when the body senses an

And that happens when the body senses an energy crisis at the end of a diet where

energy crisis at the end of a diet where you've lost a bunch of muscle mass. The

you've lost a bunch of muscle mass. The body senses that, oh my gosh, we just

body senses that, oh my gosh, we just lost a bunch of precious tissue. We have

lost a bunch of precious tissue. We have to do whatever we can to get it back.

to do whatever we can to get it back. And so your hunger signals ramp up and

And so your hunger signals ramp up and your body kind of behaviorally and even

your body kind of behaviorally and even metabolically does what is necessary for

metabolically does what is necessary for you to feed that back as soon as

you to feed that back as soon as possible. And this does not necessarily

possible. And this does not necessarily happen certainly not to that kind of

happen certainly not to that kind of magnitude if you keep your muscle mass

magnitude if you keep your muscle mass while you're losing body fat. you don't

while you're losing body fat. you don't experience this collateral fattening

experience this collateral fattening type of phenomenon where people just

type of phenomenon where people just rebound like crazy because their

rebound like crazy because their appetite is out of control at the end of

appetite is out of control at the end of the diet. So the way that you preserve

the diet. So the way that you preserve muscle mass during the fat loss process

muscle mass during the fat loss process is a couple things. So you have to make

is a couple things. So you have to make sure that your rate of weight loss isn't

sure that your rate of weight loss isn't indicative of something that's too

indicative of something that's too quick. So about a half a percent to a

quick. So about a half a percent to a full percent of your body weight lost

full percent of your body weight lost per week is as fast as you really want

per week is as fast as you really want to go. So roughly a pound a week. uh

to go. So roughly a pound a week. uh some people who start off heavier, okay,

some people who start off heavier, okay, two pounds a week is fine at the very

two pounds a week is fine at the very beginning, but you generally don't want

beginning, but you generally don't want to lose more than 1% of your total body

to lose more than 1% of your total body weight per week because then that

weight per week because then that increases the chances that you're losing

increases the chances that you're losing an undue amount of muscle mass along

an undue amount of muscle mass along with your fat mass. And so if you can

with your fat mass. And so if you can in essence control the weight loss rate,

in essence control the weight loss rate, then you will keep your lean mass.

then you will keep your lean mass. The other two things that need to be

The other two things that need to be going on at the same time are you need

going on at the same time are you need to be resistance training and you need

to be resistance training and you need to be consuming enough protein. So

to be consuming enough protein. So >> strength training and protein

>> strength training and protein >> enough protein, you got resistance

>> enough protein, you got resistance training and then you have sort of a top

training and then you have sort of a top speed limiter on how much weight that

speed limiter on how much weight that you lose per week. And 1% loss awake 1%

you lose per week. And 1% loss awake 1% loss a week is spectacular actually for

loss a week is spectacular actually for most people. Even a pound a week, even

most people. Even a pound a week, even half a pound a week, you're looking at

half a pound a week, you're looking at like in two years you lost 50 pounds.

like in two years you lost 50 pounds. Most people took like two decades to put

Most people took like two decades to put on that 50 pounds.

on that 50 pounds. >> So you actually don't want to lose

>> So you actually don't want to lose weight too quickly or else you are

weight too quickly or else you are susceptible to rebound.

susceptible to rebound. >> It is going to come off quickly if you

>> It is going to come off quickly if you have a lot of weight to lose. It'll come

have a lot of weight to lose. It'll come off quickly at the beginning. So, for

off quickly at the beginning. So, for example, uh somebody who is in a state

example, uh somebody who is in a state of obesity, let's say they weigh 250

of obesity, let's say they weigh 250 pounds and let's say they're losing two

pounds and let's say they're losing two two and a half pounds a week at the

two and a half pounds a week at the beginning of the program, that's fine.

beginning of the program, that's fine. But

But on average, on average, you you would

on average, on average, you you would want to look at roughly a pound a week

want to look at roughly a pound a week is a good benchmark. And I still would

is a good benchmark. And I still would not frown upon or scoff at a half a

not frown upon or scoff at a half a pound a week for certain cases. And we

pound a week for certain cases. And we can talk about some of those stubborn

can talk about some of those stubborn cases. Like on the topic of plateaus,

cases. Like on the topic of plateaus, for example, I had a client uh I'm sure

for example, I had a client uh I'm sure she doesn't mind being named. She's a

she doesn't mind being named. She's a great person, Pam Pam Gresock. She's a

great person, Pam Pam Gresock. She's a veteran coach in the space. Uh she's

veteran coach in the space. Uh she's permenopausal, so she's in her her 40s.

permenopausal, so she's in her her 40s. And she wanted to lose what we

And she wanted to lose what we calculated out to be 8 pounds

calculated out to be 8 pounds of fat. and she stored the majority of

of fat. and she stored the majority of it where she didn't want it was around

it where she didn't want it was around the midsection.

the midsection. And I had it in mind that okay, this is

And I had it in mind that okay, this is somebody who's permenopausal, so there's

somebody who's permenopausal, so there's going to be a lower rate of progress

going to be a lower rate of progress going on. This is somebody who is highly

going on. This is somebody who is highly trained. So, she doesn't have a lot more

trained. So, she doesn't have a lot more muscle to put on that would give her

muscle to put on that would give her some, you know, some extra in quotes

some, you know, some extra in quotes metabolic leverage for the whole process

metabolic leverage for the whole process of improving body composition. So, she's

of improving body composition. So, she's highly trained, permenopausal,

highly trained, permenopausal, wants to lose 8 pounds of fat, which

wants to lose 8 pounds of fat, which would represent the final eight pounds.

would represent the final eight pounds. sort of that that pushing the envelope.

sort of that that pushing the envelope. Knowing those three things, I knew that

Knowing those three things, I knew that this is going to be a difficult and

this is going to be a difficult and slowgoing process. So whereas I would

slowgoing process. So whereas I would normally have somebody

normally have somebody expect

expect roughly or at least gun for a pound a

roughly or at least gun for a pound a week loss,

week loss, for Pam, it was more like, are you going

for Pam, it was more like, are you going to be okay with

to be okay with one to two pounds per month? like if we

one to two pounds per month? like if we can get rid of one to two pounds of body

can get rid of one to two pounds of body fat per month, I would be happy with it

fat per month, I would be happy with it and I think you should be happy with it.

and I think you should be happy with it. And so I convinced her of that. And with

And so I convinced her of that. And with her wanting to lose 8 pounds, I think it

her wanting to lose 8 pounds, I think it helps to give people a visual of what a

helps to give people a visual of what a certain amount of weight loss looks

certain amount of weight loss looks like. So coincidentally, a gallon a

like. So coincidentally, a gallon a gallon jug if you fill it with butter,

gallon jug if you fill it with butter, that's 8 pounds. And so I had her

that's 8 pounds. And so I had her visualize this 8 pound jug.

visualize this 8 pound jug. And um I also had her do a butter

And um I also had her do a butter visualization too. So um a standard

visualization too. So um a standard stick of butter is 4 ounces. So four

stick of butter is 4 ounces. So four sticks of butter is one pound. And uh in

sticks of butter is one pound. And uh in her case, she wanted to lose well she

her case, she wanted to lose well she wanted to lose 8 pounds. So that's 32

wanted to lose 8 pounds. So that's 32 sticks of butter that would be removed

sticks of butter that would be removed from her body at the end of the dieting

from her body at the end of the dieting cycle. Is that what this is here? What

cycle. Is that what this is here? What is this?

>> That is 10 pounds of butter. This is an amazing freaking visual. And this this

amazing freaking visual. And this this is because you asked about diet breaks

is because you asked about diet breaks as a tool for people achieving long-term

as a tool for people achieving long-term weight loss or just breaking through

weight loss or just breaking through plateaus or managing plateaus. So

plateaus or managing plateaus. So every 5 to 10 pounds that somebody loses

every 5 to 10 pounds that somebody loses in a dieting cycle

in a dieting cycle is high time for a diet break. The way

is high time for a diet break. The way you can define a diet break, put some

you can define a diet break, put some parameters on it. So it's what I call

parameters on it. So it's what I call non yolo maintenance. So you take off

non yolo maintenance. So you take off the rules, take off the restrictions,

the rules, take off the restrictions, but you're not eating with sheer

but you're not eating with sheer abandon. You're just relaxing the diet.

abandon. You're just relaxing the diet. You take a week off the diet either

You take a week off the diet either every four to eight weeks while you're

every four to eight weeks while you're dieting or you take a week off of the

dieting or you take a week off of the diet

diet every 5 to 10 lbs that you lose. And the

every 5 to 10 lbs that you lose. And the sound of 5 to 10 lbs seems like oh

sound of 5 to 10 lbs seems like oh that's nothing.

that's nothing. >> But no, it's a milestone.

>> But no, it's a milestone. >> This is 10 pounds.

>> This is 10 pounds. >> Yes,

>> Yes, >> that's crazy.

>> that's crazy. >> 10 pounds of of butter off the body. So

>> 10 pounds of of butter off the body. So yeah, every time you you lose 10 pounds,

yeah, every time you you lose 10 pounds, it's 5 to 10 pounds in in my experience

it's 5 to 10 pounds in in my experience is high time to take a diet break to

is high time to take a diet break to just alleviate the mental and the

just alleviate the mental and the physical fatigue of dieting.

physical fatigue of dieting. And that's one of the tactics that you

And that's one of the tactics that you can use for a long-term adherence to a

can use for a long-term adherence to a plan.

plan. On the topic of plateaus,

On the topic of plateaus, you can when you're dieting, you will

you can when you're dieting, you will hit a point where the plateau periods or

hit a point where the plateau periods or the maintenance phases

the maintenance phases are going to be longer than the dieting

are going to be longer than the dieting phases. I think that that's ideal to be

phases. I think that that's ideal to be able to hit that point for a long-term

able to hit that point for a long-term weight loss goal. And so it's a lot

weight loss goal. And so it's a lot easier or at least a lot less

easier or at least a lot less intimidating for somebody to know that

intimidating for somebody to know that they're going to be dieting for 4 to 8

they're going to be dieting for 4 to 8 weeks at a time in between a let's say a

weeks at a time in between a let's say a 2 to 3 month maintenance phase.

2 to 3 month maintenance phase. >> What about fasting?

>> What about fasting? Do you think that fasting is because a

Do you think that fasting is because a lot of people talk about this thing

lot of people talk about this thing called autophagy where if you fast for I

called autophagy where if you fast for I don't know 48 hours your body switches

don't know 48 hours your body switches into the state of autophagy where it

into the state of autophagy where it starts to heal and repair itself.

starts to heal and repair itself. Are you a fan of fasting

Are you a fan of fasting for weight loss or for autophagy or

for weight loss or for autophagy or other things

other things >> for the control of calories in fasting

>> for the control of calories in fasting is legit and it's also legit for it. It

is legit and it's also legit for it. It actually works a as a as one of the

actually works a as a as one of the options for dieting. There just has been

options for dieting. There just has been a massive

a massive accumulation of studies showing that it

accumulation of studies showing that it works great. So the intermittent fasting

works great. So the intermittent fasting variants, we have one one we talked

variants, we have one one we talked about earlier timerestricted eating and

about earlier timerestricted eating and we've got every other day fasting and

we've got every other day fasting and then the other third major variant would

then the other third major variant would be twice weekly fasting or the 52 type

be twice weekly fasting or the 52 type of model. And then you have like

of model. And then you have like consecutive day fasting type of models

consecutive day fasting type of models as well which are less studied because

as well which are less studied because there's just more risk involved in them

there's just more risk involved in them and it's tough to you know incur that

and it's tough to you know incur that risk in research. When you bring up

risk in research. When you bring up autophagy,

autophagy, that's where I kind of have to push back

that's where I kind of have to push back on um not on your your mentioning of it

on um not on your your mentioning of it specifically, but just in general.

specifically, but just in general. People will say or we'll make claims

People will say or we'll make claims that yeah, autophagy

that yeah, autophagy and we can say that we can explain

and we can say that we can explain autophagy as a way that the body gets

autophagy as a way that the body gets rid of uh parts of damaged cells.

rid of uh parts of damaged cells. It's an important process within the

It's an important process within the body and it is a catabolic process or a

body and it is a catabolic process or a breakdown process.

breakdown process. But the thing is

But the thing is it happens in a caloric deficit

it happens in a caloric deficit regardless of whether fasting is

regardless of whether fasting is involved or not.

involved or not. >> Really?

>> Really? >> Yes. You maintain hypocchloric

>> Yes. You maintain hypocchloric conditions. Autophagy ramps up.

conditions. Autophagy ramps up. um you can have a linear hypocoric model

um you can have a linear hypocoric model or a nonlinear or intermittent

or a nonlinear or intermittent hypocaloric model and you'll get similar

hypocaloric model and you'll get similar degrees of autophagy if you match the

degrees of autophagy if you match the caloric deficit by the end of the week.

caloric deficit by the end of the week. Now the other interesting thing about

Now the other interesting thing about autophagy

autophagy is that you can ramp up autophagy

is that you can ramp up autophagy through exercise

through exercise and not only that but both major types

and not only that but both major types of exercise will increase autophagy. So

of exercise will increase autophagy. So resistance training increases autophagy.

resistance training increases autophagy. Endurance aerobic type training

Endurance aerobic type training increases autophagy.

increases autophagy. So, if you want to in quotes chase

So, if you want to in quotes chase autophagy,

autophagy, then doing it through intermittent

then doing it through intermittent fasting or just going through prolonged

fasting or just going through prolonged periods of not eating can be a

periods of not eating can be a double-edged sword. Whereas the

double-edged sword. Whereas the autophagy increases through exercise,

autophagy increases through exercise, they almost don't have a downside. And

they almost don't have a downside. And so, um, a lot of times with intermittent

so, um, a lot of times with intermittent fasting, it can be a great tool for

fasting, it can be a great tool for people who need to lose excess body

people who need to lose excess body weight. But what I'm seeing in the

weight. But what I'm seeing in the community is people thinking that

community is people thinking that intermittent fasting is something that

intermittent fasting is something that is necessary to do regardless of your

is necessary to do regardless of your body fat level. That is either necessary

body fat level. That is either necessary or beneficial. And that's not actually

or beneficial. And that's not actually true per per the research. There's

true per per the research. There's there's a this one study in particular

there's a this one study in particular that looked at men who are already lean

that looked at men who are already lean and I believe this was by Templeton and

and I believe this was by Templeton and colleagues where they compared a linear

colleagues where they compared a linear dieting model with an every other day

dieting model with an every other day fasting model.

fasting model. >> What does that mean every other day

>> What does that mean every other day fasting? So they took 24 hours off.

fasting? So they took 24 hours off. >> Yes. Yeah. So it was Yep. every other

>> Yes. Yeah. So it was Yep. every other day and then the same deficit by the end

day and then the same deficit by the end of the by the end of the week between

of the by the end of the week between the two groups. And the intermittent

the two groups. And the intermittent group actually lost more lean body mass

group actually lost more lean body mass than the linear caloric deficit group.

than the linear caloric deficit group. >> They lost more lean body.

>> They lost more lean body. >> They lost more lean body mass.

>> They lost more lean body mass. >> So they lost more weight.

>> So they lost more weight. >> They muscle.

>> They muscle. >> Lost more muscle.

>> Lost more muscle. Yeah. And so that gives us a hint that

Yeah. And so that gives us a hint that fasting is great until it isn't because

fasting is great until it isn't because you've achieved what you needed to

you've achieved what you needed to achieve. And so then it just kind of

achieve. And so then it just kind of becomes a tool. It it it's always just a

becomes a tool. It it it's always just a tool to help people control calories.

tool to help people control calories. And one of the beautiful things about

And one of the beautiful things about fasting and whether it's timerestricted

fasting and whether it's timerestricted eating or whether it's some sort of

eating or whether it's some sort of variant of alternate day fasting or

variant of alternate day fasting or twice a week fasting

twice a week fasting is that it works in research regardless

is that it works in research regardless of whether people are meticulously

of whether people are meticulously tracking things or not. And so that that

tracking things or not. And so that that can be a boon for individuals who don't

can be a boon for individuals who don't necessarily like to micromanage their

necessarily like to micromanage their stuff. But for people who are trying to

stuff. But for people who are trying to maximize retention of lean mass while

maximize retention of lean mass while they're pushing the envelope of uh

they're pushing the envelope of uh fitness,

fitness, uh it can definitely be a double-edged

uh it can definitely be a double-edged sword once you're already lean.

sword once you're already lean. >> But if I do want to maximize the

>> But if I do want to maximize the benefits of autophagy, the best way to

benefits of autophagy, the best way to do that is fasting versus just calorie

do that is fasting versus just calorie restriction. I'm assuming

restriction. I'm assuming >> we don't know what the optimal level of

>> we don't know what the optimal level of autophagy is that would actually confer

autophagy is that would actually confer health benefits. We don't know what that

health benefits. We don't know what that threshold is. And there's different ways

threshold is. And there's different ways that people try to measure autophagy.

that people try to measure autophagy. It's very hard to correlate certain

It's very hard to correlate certain levels of autophagy with certain

levels of autophagy with certain certain degrees of disease prevention.

certain degrees of disease prevention. We we're not there yet. Um, I don't

We we're not there yet. Um, I don't think I I I think big picture-wise I

think I I I think big picture-wise I think that autophagy

think that autophagy is an algorithm

is an algorithm running in the background that is more

running in the background that is more of a bystander type of thing than a

of a bystander type of thing than a driver. Simple sim similar to insulin

driver. Simple sim similar to insulin and glucagon. So the insulin and

and glucagon. So the insulin and glucagon axis works when you feed versus

glucagon axis works when you feed versus when you're fasting. So glucagon levels

when you're fasting. So glucagon levels go up. What's glucagon?

go up. What's glucagon? >> Glucagon is a hormone that mobilizes

>> Glucagon is a hormone that mobilizes fuel stores in the absence of food, in

fuel stores in the absence of food, in the absence of calories.

the absence of calories. And autophagy is similar in that regard.

And autophagy is similar in that regard. And I think that a focus on pushing

And I think that a focus on pushing autophagy

autophagy is sort of missing the forest for the

is sort of missing the forest for the trees. Because if we were to push

trees. Because if we were to push autophagy to its end, then we could go

autophagy to its end, then we could go all the way to a phenomenon called

all the way to a phenomenon called autotosis, which is runaway cell death,

autotosis, which is runaway cell death, which happens in starvation in some

which happens in starvation in some cases.

cases. And so I think that we need to focus on

And so I think that we need to focus on other things like how do we maintain a

other things like how do we maintain a certain body fat percentage while

certain body fat percentage while maintaining

maintaining a certain physical activity level while

a certain physical activity level while maintaining a certain dietary pattern.

maintaining a certain dietary pattern. I think that it's those things that are

I think that it's those things that are much more productive to target than

much more productive to target than seeing how far can we push autophagy

seeing how far can we push autophagy before potentially going into runaway

before potentially going into runaway cell death.

cell death. >> Mhm. I was looking at the the benefits

>> Mhm. I was looking at the the benefits of this thing they call autophagy and it

of this thing they call autophagy and it says there the proven likely benefits

says there the proven likely benefits are cellular cleaner. So repairs damaged

are cellular cleaner. So repairs damaged proteins and organels I believe

proteins and organels I believe improving cell efficiency. Metabolic

improving cell efficiency. Metabolic health improves insulin sensitivity

health improves insulin sensitivity neuroproction heart and muscle quality

neuroproction heart and muscle quality maintains mitochondria helps adapt to

maintains mitochondria helps adapt to training and oxidative stress. immune

training and oxidative stress. immune tuning and longevity. There's sort of

tuning and longevity. There's sort of strong animal evidence I believe

strong animal evidence I believe >> around the longevity component, but they

>> around the longevity component, but they the the research that I was reading

the the research that I was reading talked about how it can back back

talked about how it can back back backfire because um tumors may use

backfire because um tumors may use autophagy to survive. Um and some

autophagy to survive. Um and some treatments for established cancers aim

treatments for established cancers aim to inhibit it. And if you overdo

to inhibit it. And if you overdo fasting, as you said in the study you

fasting, as you said in the study you cited, you can lose muscle, which is not

cited, you can lose muscle, which is not great, and be fatigued, etc. Um there is

great, and be fatigued, etc. Um there is a bit of a trend I think with people

a bit of a trend I think with people doing a lot of water fasts and stuff

doing a lot of water fasts and stuff like that quite periodically. I think

like that quite periodically. I think it's rising even sort of juice fasts and

it's rising even sort of juice fasts and stuff like that. What's your take on

stuff like that. What's your take on those types of fasts?

those types of fasts? >> I'm not a big fan Stephen. Uh I think

>> I'm not a big fan Stephen. Uh I think that the cycle that people go through at

that the cycle that people go through at least in the developed world is that

least in the developed world is that they go through the year then November

they go through the year then November comes around and then the holidays hit.

comes around and then the holidays hit. They overdo it from November to through

They overdo it from November to through December all the way up to the end of

December all the way up to the end of the year and they're like, "Oh boy, I

the year and they're like, "Oh boy, I have 10 to 20 pounds that I want to

have 10 to 20 pounds that I want to lose." And then they just use these sort

lose." And then they just use these sort of fasts and these detoxes to crash off

of fasts and these detoxes to crash off the bad decisions of the previous few

the bad decisions of the previous few months. And then the cycle repeats

months. And then the cycle repeats annually.

annually. So, I think that it's a much healthier

So, I think that it's a much healthier approach for people to secure and

approach for people to secure and reinforce the right habits through the

reinforce the right habits through the entirety of the year instead of um

entirety of the year instead of um jumping on the fast to get rid of the

jumping on the fast to get rid of the the the holiday binges.

the the holiday binges. >> This sort of brings me to the ketogenic

>> This sort of brings me to the ketogenic diet. Um, my dad used the ketogenic diet

diet. Um, my dad used the ketogenic diet and I think actually my brother as well.

and I think actually my brother as well. Um, but also a few of my friends in my

Um, but also a few of my friends in my life used it as a way to drop their fat

life used it as a way to drop their fat quite quickly to sort of recomposite

quite quickly to sort of recomposite their body um, very very quickly. And

their body um, very very quickly. And the results of seeing someone on the

the results of seeing someone on the ketogenic diet are quite astounding

ketogenic diet are quite astounding because my friend the other day sent me

because my friend the other day sent me the chart of his weighing scales at home

the chart of his weighing scales at home and it's the sort of gradual increase

and it's the sort of gradual increase upwards and then he did the ketogenic

upwards and then he did the ketogenic diet where he cut out carbohydrates and

diet where he cut out carbohydrates and sugars basically almost entirely and

sugars basically almost entirely and it's just straight line down in his body

it's just straight line down in his body his body weight. What is your

his body weight. What is your perspective on the ketogenic diet? What

perspective on the ketogenic diet? What is it good for? What is it not good for?

is it good for? What is it not good for? Is it good at all?

Is it good at all? It is a very effective way to lose

It is a very effective way to lose weight and fat.

weight and fat. And that's for a few big reasons. First

And that's for a few big reasons. First of all, if somebody goes from their

of all, if somebody goes from their typical western dietary pattern to the

typical western dietary pattern to the ketogenic diet, then they're

ketogenic diet, then they're automatically cutting out a lot of

automatically cutting out a lot of highly processed, hyper palatable

highly processed, hyper palatable carb fat combo junk foods and snacks.

carb fat combo junk foods and snacks. that are just energy dense, easy to over

that are just energy dense, easy to over consume mindlessly.

consume mindlessly. That's the good thing about the

That's the good thing about the ketogenic diet in addition to well,

ketogenic diet in addition to well, they're finally eating enough protein

they're finally eating enough protein now. And so along with the increase in

now. And so along with the increase in protein comes an increase in satiety and

protein comes an increase in satiety and a better hunger control.

a better hunger control. Now, the negatives of the ketogenic

Now, the negatives of the ketogenic diet, the big one is that the majority

diet, the big one is that the majority of people who engage a ketogenic diet,

of people who engage a ketogenic diet, they don't do it permanently. For one

they don't do it permanently. For one reason or another, they're no longer on

reason or another, they're no longer on the keto diet. And this is reflected in

the keto diet. And this is reflected in research as well. Even in uh vulnerable

research as well. Even in uh vulnerable populations who would stand to benefit

populations who would stand to benefit from from that level of restriction. So

from from that level of restriction. So usually what happens in research is you

usually what happens in research is you take you take a group two groups of

take you take a group two groups of subjects and one is on the high carb

subjects and one is on the high carb low-fat control diet and one of them is

low-fat control diet and one of them is on a ketogenic diet which can be

on a ketogenic diet which can be achieved by a maximum of 50 grams of

achieved by a maximum of 50 grams of carbohydrate in the day or or less then

carbohydrate in the day or or less then you're on the keto diet. So what happens

you're on the keto diet. So what happens at the 12 month point in the diet and

at the 12 month point in the diet and sometimes at the six-month point, the

sometimes at the six-month point, the keto group is now consuming about two to

keto group is now consuming about two to three times more carbohydrates than the

three times more carbohydrates than the original 50 gram assignment.

original 50 gram assignment. >> So they rebound.

>> So they rebound. >> They just insidiously creep up the carb

>> They just insidiously creep up the carb intake.

intake. There's something about the ketogenic

There's something about the ketogenic diet that the majority of people who

diet that the majority of people who engage it just can't stick to. It's too

engage it just can't stick to. It's too restrictive for people. they can't stick

restrictive for people. they can't stick to it. But by what you're saying, they

to it. But by what you're saying, they also end up rebounding

also end up rebounding >> above where they were before.

>> above where they were before. >> They end up rebounding like I'll give

>> They end up rebounding like I'll give you a specific example.

you a specific example. There was one study

There was one study well there was the A Toz study where um

well there was the A Toz study where um the individuals on the Atkins diet ended

the individuals on the Atkins diet ended up consuming what looked a lot like the

up consuming what looked a lot like the zone diet.

zone diet. >> The zone diet?

>> The zone diet? >> Yes. The zone diet is a 40%

>> Yes. The zone diet is a 40% carbohydrate, 30% protein, 30% fat.

carbohydrate, 30% protein, 30% fat. >> So it's the keto diet roughly.

>> So it's the keto diet roughly. >> Um the keto diet is more like 60 to 80%

>> Um the keto diet is more like 60 to 80% fat and then you know 15 to 20ish%

fat and then you know 15 to 20ish% protein and then the carbohydrates are

protein and then the carbohydrates are the remainder

the remainder the minor percentage. So what happens is

the minor percentage. So what happens is like the people who started off at 50

like the people who started off at 50 gram of carbohydrate at the beginning of

gram of carbohydrate at the beginning of the study, the keto group at the

the study, the keto group at the 12-month point, they were they crept

12-month point, they were they crept that carbohydrate intake up to around

that carbohydrate intake up to around 150 gram of carbohydrate, whereas their

150 gram of carbohydrate, whereas their assignment was 50 gram of carbohydrate a

assignment was 50 gram of carbohydrate a day. This is a common theme in long-term

day. This is a common theme in long-term keto studies is this up creep in

keto studies is this up creep in carbohydrate intake over time because

carbohydrate intake over time because people can't maintain the the the 50

people can't maintain the the the 50 grams of carbohydrate max required to

grams of carbohydrate max required to stay in ketosis.

stay in ketosis. And I'm not saying that there aren't a

And I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people out there who are just

lot of people out there who are just living the keto life permanently.

living the keto life permanently. They're out there.

They're out there. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> But they are in the minority. I see them

>> But they are in the minority. I see them in the comment section whenever I talk

in the comment section whenever I talk about keto. I see people say, "Look,

about keto. I see people say, "Look, I've been on the keto diet for 5 years,

I've been on the keto diet for 5 years, for seven years, for 10 years."

for seven years, for 10 years." >> Sure, there's entire there's huge

>> Sure, there's entire there's huge communities of folks who've been on keto

communities of folks who've been on keto for 5 10 years or longer. And that's

for 5 10 years or longer. And that's great. More power to these folks. But

great. More power to these folks. But claiming that this is a universal

claiming that this is a universal solution ignores the reality that some

solution ignores the reality that some people, most people uh per the research,

people, most people uh per the research, the majority can't stick to it. So

the majority can't stick to it. So that's the the caveat, one of the

that's the the caveat, one of the caveats of the keto diet. The other one

caveats of the keto diet. The other one would be for those who can stick to the

would be for those who can stick to the keto diet for long enough. You really

keto diet for long enough. You really have to look at the quality of uh the

have to look at the quality of uh the diet in order for it to be

diet in order for it to be cardiovascularly healthy. If you're

cardiovascularly healthy. If you're going to engage an let's say an 80 85%

going to engage an let's say an 80 85% fat diet for the rest of your life,

fat diet for the rest of your life, there's going to be very different

there's going to be very different effects if that 80 to 85% are from land

effects if that 80 to 85% are from land animal fats versus from nuts, avocados,

animal fats versus from nuts, avocados, olive oil.

olive oil. Very different cardiovascular effects

Very different cardiovascular effects going on there. And so, uh, that's the

going on there. And so, uh, that's the other caveat with the keto diet. There's

other caveat with the keto diet. There's a Mediterranean type of keto diet that

a Mediterranean type of keto diet that is healthy and that has, you know, it it

is healthy and that has, you know, it it is one of these cardiovascularly

is one of these cardiovascularly protective types of diets that you can

protective types of diets that you can engage. Whereas, if you just do like

engage. Whereas, if you just do like beef, bacon, and butter from here on

beef, bacon, and butter from here on out, then uh you don't have the best

out, then uh you don't have the best cardiovascular risk trajectory.

cardiovascular risk trajectory. >> What about gaining muscle on the

>> What about gaining muscle on the ketogenic diet? If I'm restricting

ketogenic diet? If I'm restricting carbohydrates, is it more difficult to

carbohydrates, is it more difficult to gain muscle mass?

gain muscle mass? >> The short answer is yes. And the nuanced

>> The short answer is yes. And the nuanced answer is

answer is you still can gain muscle on keto.

you still can gain muscle on keto. And the body is is really resilient and

And the body is is really resilient and and quite genius at manufacturing the

and quite genius at manufacturing the carbohydrate um endogenously or from

carbohydrate um endogenously or from within the body. So your your body can

within the body. So your your body can make carbohydrate out of lactate and

make carbohydrate out of lactate and fill at least partially your muscle

fill at least partially your muscle glycogen stores. And so um going on a

glycogen stores. And so um going on a zero carbohydrate diet doesn't

zero carbohydrate diet doesn't necessarily

necessarily end up with the type of results that you

end up with the type of results that you you you might imagine for somebody who's

you you might imagine for somebody who's completely avoiding carbohydrates. And

completely avoiding carbohydrates. And in the research comparing

in the research comparing strength gains from a high carbohydrate,

strength gains from a high carbohydrate, low-fat diet versus a keto diet, the

low-fat diet versus a keto diet, the keto folks, as long as they're equated

keto folks, as long as they're equated with protein and total calories with the

with protein and total calories with the control diet, they've got similar

control diet, they've got similar strength gains. It's quite a an

strength gains. It's quite a an interesting phenomenon.

interesting phenomenon. Muscle size gains is different story.

Muscle size gains is different story. Interestingly,

Interestingly, almost always there's some advantage to

almost always there's some advantage to the high carb, low-fat control group

the high carb, low-fat control group compared with the ketogenic diet group

compared with the ketogenic diet group when it comes to both gains in lean mass

when it comes to both gains in lean mass as well as retention of lean mass during

as well as retention of lean mass during dieting. And one of those things is

dieting. And one of those things is more or less obvious. It's like you you

more or less obvious. It's like you you simply carry more muscle glycogen when

simply carry more muscle glycogen when you're on a high carbohydrate, low-fat

you're on a high carbohydrate, low-fat diet. and muscle glyco glycogen is the

diet. and muscle glyco glycogen is the stored form of carbohydrate within the

stored form of carbohydrate within the muscle and then a minor amount in the

muscle and then a minor amount in the liver and for every gram of carbohydrate

liver and for every gram of carbohydrate that you store as glycogen there's

that you store as glycogen there's threeish grams of water stuck to it and

threeish grams of water stuck to it and so just sitting there you're carrying

so just sitting there you're carrying more more muscle mass more fullness on a

more more muscle mass more fullness on a non ketogenic diet

non ketogenic diet >> what about the carnivore diet a lot of

>> what about the carnivore diet a lot of people have talked about that recently

people have talked about that recently which is just a diet where you just eat

which is just a diet where you just eat meat What's your just your point of view

meat What's your just your point of view on that?

on that? >> Well, okay, it's a little silly and it's

>> Well, okay, it's a little silly and it's a little extreme, but it has some merit

a little extreme, but it has some merit to it. So, the carnivore diet, when you

to it. So, the carnivore diet, when you get on it, it's similar to how when

get on it, it's similar to how when people go on a keto diet after they've

people go on a keto diet after they've been doing the standard western diet

been doing the standard western diet since forever. So, the standard western

since forever. So, the standard western diet has too much of everything. It's

diet has too much of everything. It's got too much total calories, too much

got too much total calories, too much refined carbohydrate. It's got too much

refined carbohydrate. It's got too much of this type of fat and too much h it's

of this type of fat and too much h it's got a moderate amount of protein, but

got a moderate amount of protein, but you're also eating everything under the

you're also eating everything under the sun from burgers to fries to cakes to

sun from burgers to fries to cakes to ice creams to cookies. Uh in addition to

ice creams to cookies. Uh in addition to pasta and everything else. So when you

pasta and everything else. So when you go from that excess of everything to the

go from that excess of everything to the carnivore diet, you automatically and

carnivore diet, you automatically and spontaneously eat far fewer calories

spontaneously eat far fewer calories than you used to on your standard

than you used to on your standard western diet. So the carnivore diet is

western diet. So the carnivore diet is actually the lesser of the evils when

actually the lesser of the evils when we're comparing it to the standard

we're comparing it to the standard western diet. And you can even try to

western diet. And you can even try to optimize the carnivore diet. Like some

optimize the carnivore diet. Like some people engage a carnivore diet that is

people engage a carnivore diet that is just extreme like beef and salt. Okay?

just extreme like beef and salt. Okay? So that is very appealing to people who

So that is very appealing to people who have a tendency to jump on the carnivore

have a tendency to jump on the carnivore diet cuz it's even more extreme. And

diet cuz it's even more extreme. And people with tendencies towards the

people with tendencies towards the extremes, they'll a lot of them are exve

one one extreme side or the other. It's tough for them to be in the gray scale

tough for them to be in the gray scale here. But the carnivore diet

here. But the carnivore diet is um the lesser of the evils.

is um the lesser of the evils. can be optimized, if that's even

can be optimized, if that's even possible, if people had more variety

possible, if people had more variety within their carnivore model, within

within their carnivore model, within their plant-free diet model. Like for

their plant-free diet model. Like for example, if some went carnivore, instead

example, if some went carnivore, instead of doing beef and salt, he had a

of doing beef and salt, he had a rotation of fatty fish, poultry, beef,

rotation of fatty fish, poultry, beef, eggs, dairy,

eggs, dairy, and who knows, maybe he might even

and who knows, maybe he might even justify protein powder in there for a

justify protein powder in there for a dessert. Who knows? It's still

dessert. Who knows? It's still animal-based.

animal-based. Um,

Um, >> do you find that vegans and vegetarians

>> do you find that vegans and vegetarians struggle more to gain muscle mass?

struggle more to gain muscle mass? Typically,

Typically, >> vegans and vegetarians

>> vegans and vegetarians in the general population do because

in the general population do because they're not aware of how to structure

they're not aware of how to structure the diet and the training program to to

the diet and the training program to to achieve that. So,

achieve that. So, >> what are they missing?

>> what are they missing? >> They're just not eating enough total

>> They're just not eating enough total calories and they're not eating enough

calories and they're not eating enough protein, generally speaking. Now, there

protein, generally speaking. Now, there are some vegans who will drink a bunch

are some vegans who will drink a bunch of Mountain Dew and, you know, have have

of Mountain Dew and, you know, have have um potato chips and and things like that

um potato chips and and things like that and still stay vegan. And Oreo cookies

and still stay vegan. And Oreo cookies are vegan, I I believe, as well. But

are vegan, I I believe, as well. But vegans can still gain muscle on par with

vegans can still gain muscle on par with omnivores if they structure it right.

omnivores if they structure it right. >> Are most people that you encounter and

>> Are most people that you encounter and have worked with over the years not

have worked with over the years not getting enough protein?

getting enough protein? like the average person on the street.

like the average person on the street. >> Yes.

>> Yes. Almost everybody who has been overweight

Almost everybody who has been overweight or obese

or obese or just had some degree of of an issue

or just had some degree of of an issue with their body fat levels. Almost all

with their body fat levels. Almost all of them

of them under consume protein.

under consume protein. >> What about people that are very skinny?

>> What about people that are very skinny? because I've got lots of friends that um

because I've got lots of friends that um would be in the skinny fat category

would be in the skinny fat category where they they're kind of they look

where they they're kind of they look very very very skinny but they've got

very very very skinny but they've got you know a little bit of a role here

you know a little bit of a role here >> um and they often say to me that they

>> um and they often say to me that they just can't gain weight.

just can't gain weight. >> I've heard this a lot from from friends.

>> I've heard this a lot from from friends. I I just can't get gain weight. I've

I I just can't get gain weight. I've heard I need to have more protein but

heard I need to have more protein but you know I'm just not gaining any

you know I'm just not gaining any weight.

weight. >> Yeah, that is the in quotes hard gainer

>> Yeah, that is the in quotes hard gainer phenomenon. And people will have

phenomenon. And people will have different degrees of body fat in in that

different degrees of body fat in in that category. But these folks, what they

category. But these folks, what they actually have an issue with is a

actually have an issue with is a spontaneous increase in what we call non

spontaneous increase in what we call non exercise activity thermogenesis. So

exercise activity thermogenesis. So basically, it's an increase in

basically, it's an increase in spontaneous movement. just an increase

spontaneous movement. just an increase in fidgeting, you know, tapping, moving

in fidgeting, you know, tapping, moving around, uh just being more hyperinetic

around, uh just being more hyperinetic in response to increasing their caloric

in response to increasing their caloric intake. In 24 hours, you and I expend X

intake. In 24 hours, you and I expend X amount of calories.

amount of calories. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So total daily energy expenditure is

>> So total daily energy expenditure is composed of um various components. So

composed of um various components. So there is a resting energy expenditure

there is a resting energy expenditure component. M

component. M >> so our so-called resting metabolic rate

>> so our so-called resting metabolic rate or it's also called resting energy

or it's also called resting energy expenditure or basil metabolic rate

expenditure or basil metabolic rate those are all interchangeable

those are all interchangeable that is the amount of calories that your

that is the amount of calories that your body burns in a 24-hour period just to

body burns in a 24-hour period just to stay alive. Okay so if you are bedridden

stay alive. Okay so if you are bedridden the amount of calories you you burn just

the amount of calories you you burn just through your vital organs and your

through your vital organs and your systems working that's your resting

systems working that's your resting energy expenditure.

energy expenditure. Now the other part of energy expenditure

Now the other part of energy expenditure is your active energy expenditure. So

is your active energy expenditure. So active energy expenditure consists of we

active energy expenditure consists of we can subdivide it into your exercise

can subdivide it into your exercise activity and your non-ex exercise

activity and your non-ex exercise activity. With hard gainers it's their

activity. With hard gainers it's their nonex exercise activity that

nonex exercise activity that spontaneously

spontaneously goes up when they try to eat more to

goes up when they try to eat more to gain weight. There's a an interesting

gain weight. There's a an interesting study done in the late 1990s by Lavine

study done in the late 1990s by Lavine and colleagues where he took a group of

and colleagues where he took a group of normal weight subjects. It was mostly

normal weight subjects. It was mostly male sample of subjects and he fed them

male sample of subjects and he fed them 1,000 calories above and beyond their

1,000 calories above and beyond their maintenance requirements and I believe

maintenance requirements and I believe this was for 10 weeks. What happened

this was for 10 weeks. What happened during the during the study and as a

during the during the study and as a result of eating 1,000 calories above

result of eating 1,000 calories above their maintenance needs, they ended up

their maintenance needs, they ended up burning on average 336 calories through

burning on average 336 calories through an increase in nonex exercise activity.

an increase in nonex exercise activity. So that that is a very interesting

So that that is a very interesting phenomenon. One of the uh subjects in

phenomenon. One of the uh subjects in that study actually ended up burning

that study actually ended up burning almost 700 calories as an increase in

almost 700 calories as an increase in their non exercise activity

their non exercise activity thermogenesis.

thermogenesis. And so what happens to this archetype,

And so what happens to this archetype, this hardgain gainer person is they just

this hardgain gainer person is they just start fidgeting more, they just start

start fidgeting more, they just start walking faster. They just start sitting

walking faster. They just start sitting less. They start bobbing their head

less. They start bobbing their head more. And they can even uh just

more. And they can even uh just subconsciously train harder, train more,

subconsciously train harder, train more, and their energy expenditure side just

and their energy expenditure side just ramps up spontaneously in response to an

ramps up spontaneously in response to an increase in calories. So,

increase in calories. So, >> so if someone is a hard gainer and they

>> so if someone is a hard gainer and they struggle to gain weight because of this

struggle to gain weight because of this sort of spontaneous energy usage,

sort of spontaneous energy usage, >> what advice would you give them?

>> what advice would you give them? >> To stop moving,

>> To stop moving, >> eat more.

>> eat more. Okay, so the principle would be to eat

Okay, so the principle would be to eat more. Uh the practice would be eat more

more. Uh the practice would be eat more in a way that you get those calories in

in a way that you get those calories in easily and conveniently.

easily and conveniently. And so you can structure liquid meals,

And so you can structure liquid meals, two in a day. They rarely need three

two in a day. They rarely need three shakes to have between their meals

shakes to have between their meals at any point in the day where it's

at any point in the day where it's convenient. And then you just literally

convenient. And then you just literally add nutrition and calories that way.

add nutrition and calories that way. And that so that's the solution. Just

And that so that's the solution. Just literally eat more.

literally eat more. >> I think the the thing that sits

>> I think the the thing that sits underneath everything we're talking

underneath everything we're talking about is motivation,

about is motivation, whatever that means, which is like

whatever that means, which is like having the motivation to stick to

having the motivation to stick to something, discipline, whatever you want

something, discipline, whatever you want to call it. When you look back through

to call it. When you look back through the last 30 years of your career, are

the last 30 years of your career, are there any similarities in the thing or

there any similarities in the thing or the catalyst moment that made somebody

the catalyst moment that made somebody finally stick to it? stick to the diet,

finally stick to it? stick to the diet, stick to the exercise regime, stick to

stick to the exercise regime, stick to the whatever.

the whatever. >> Is there are there any themes of a

>> Is there are there any themes of a person going from struggling to

person going from struggling to disciplined?

disciplined? >> So the first thing that comes to my mind

>> So the first thing that comes to my mind is they finally arrive at the point

is they finally arrive at the point where their physical goals become

where their physical goals become priority number one.

priority number one. changing the body. So, losing body fat,

changing the body. So, losing body fat, gaining muscle, achieving

gaining muscle, achieving your ideal body composition,

your ideal body composition, that is a colossally difficult goal.

that is a colossally difficult goal. Whenever I work with somebody who's

Whenever I work with somebody who's preparing for a contest of some sort,

preparing for a contest of some sort, whether it is in the more elite line of

whether it is in the more elite line of physique contest or whether they're just

physique contest or whether they're just joining a transformation challenge, but

joining a transformation challenge, but they're both very very serious and they

they're both very very serious and they both are putting their program at the

both are putting their program at the top of their priority list. So when I

top of their priority list. So when I say top of your priority, I mean

say top of your priority, I mean you do what you need to do to stay alive

you do what you need to do to stay alive and and and keep breathing as as a top

and and and keep breathing as as a top priority. And right there is your

priority. And right there is your physical goals. Okay. So, the big

physical goals. Okay. So, the big problem with people who find that they

problem with people who find that they can't hit their goals or they can't stay

can't hit their goals or they can't stay consistent or they're just having a

consistent or they're just having a struggle losing x amount of body fat or

struggle losing x amount of body fat or even a struggle gaining x amount of

even a struggle gaining x amount of muscle is that they simply have five

muscle is that they simply have five other things that are prioritized in

other things that are prioritized in their day above and beyond their their

their day above and beyond their their program. Mhm.

program. Mhm. >> So they have five

>> So they have five universes of excuses that can come in

universes of excuses that can come in the way of sticking to the program. So

the way of sticking to the program. So somebody has to be at the point in their

somebody has to be at the point in their lives where they're going to make it a

lives where they're going to make it a top priority because you know there's

top priority because you know there's nothing metabolically different from

nothing metabolically different from these physique competitors and these

these physique competitors and these people who join these challenges versus

people who join these challenges versus somebody in the general population who's

somebody in the general population who's just struggling.

just struggling. The people in the physique contests will

The people in the physique contests will always hit their goal within 1% at the

always hit their goal within 1% at the end of the prep period. They'll always

end of the prep period. They'll always hit their goal. And so they're not a

hit their goal. And so they're not a different species. They're not a

different species. They're not a different animal. They don't have

different animal. They don't have special metabolisms. They just have

special metabolisms. They just have different priorities. And so that is the

different priorities. And so that is the difference. You have to hit a point

difference. You have to hit a point where your physical goal becomes

where your physical goal becomes priority one. And is there anything

priority one. And is there anything that one can do in your opinion or that

that one can do in your opinion or that you try and do when you were a trainer

you try and do when you were a trainer back in the day to make this someone's

back in the day to make this someone's priority?

priority? >> You can sit somebody down and

>> You can sit somebody down and review with them the what are the

review with them the what are the reasons why you're doing this? name me

reasons why you're doing this? name me three three three good things that you

three three three good things that you think will come out of this or three

think will come out of this or three drivers that you can think about and

drivers that you can think about and then you can just have them write that

then you can just have them write that down and then they can be reminded that

down and then they can be reminded that way but fundamentally Stephen they have

way but fundamentally Stephen they have to arrive at that point sort of on a

to arrive at that point sort of on a self-initiated way you you can't really

self-initiated way you you can't really make the horse drink you know you can

make the horse drink you know you can pull them towards the freaking pond

pull them towards the freaking pond you know, they almost have to to get

you know, they almost have to to get there themselves. And and you're kind of

there themselves. And and you're kind of you can facilitate it only to a certain

you can facilitate it only to a certain degree. And after you ask them, okay,

degree. And after you ask them, okay, what what are the reasons? Then you can

what what are the reasons? Then you can also have them put in their face, okay,

also have them put in their face, okay, what are the barriers? So to have them

what are the barriers? So to have them write down your three biggest stumbling

write down your three biggest stumbling blocks and so then you can give them two

blocks and so then you can give them two sets of things to think about that will

sets of things to think about that will keep them on task and motivated.

keep them on task and motivated. >> You're 53 years old.

>> You're 53 years old. >> 53. 53 years old. You looked very

>> 53. 53 years old. You looked very different at 40 years old.

different at 40 years old. >> Ah. Oh, yes, sir. I did.

>> Ah. Oh, yes, sir. I did. Yeah. Whoa, buddy. Yep. Yep. Mhm. I

Yeah. Whoa, buddy. Yep. Yep. Mhm. I remember that guy.

remember that guy. Woo. That's an amazing shot.

Woo. That's an amazing shot. I

I >> mean, you look younger now.

>> mean, you look younger now. >> I do, actually. Thank God. Thank God.

>> I do, actually. Thank God. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. That that always gets me,

Yeah. Yeah. That that always gets me, man. That that picture always gets me.

man. That that picture always gets me. Why?

Why? >> It was when my my first son was sevenish

>> It was when my my first son was sevenish and my younger baby was um about four.

and my younger baby was um about four. And so parents with young children are

And so parents with young children are very stressed out, bad habits. I used to

very stressed out, bad habits. I used to drink heavily. Yeah. I I started

drink heavily. Yeah. I I started drinking heavily at that point. Um, and

drinking heavily at that point. Um, and I drank heavily from when I was 40 till

I drank heavily from when I was 40 till I was about 46.

I was about 46. >> Were you an alcoholic at at 40 years

>> Were you an alcoholic at at 40 years old?

old? >> Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

>> Oh, yes. Oh, yes. >> What did that look like?

>> What did that look like? >> It was it it got really bad towards the

>> It was it it got really bad towards the final couple years. I'm talking a bottle

final couple years. I'm talking a bottle bottle and a half of wine a a night by

bottle and a half of wine a a night by myself.

myself. >> Seven days a week.

>> Seven days a week. >> Seven days a week. And the bottle and a

>> Seven days a week. And the bottle and a half that's almost 1,000 calories of

half that's almost 1,000 calories of 1,000 calories of regret is what it was.

1,000 calories of regret is what it was. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Do you know what caused that?

>> Do you know what caused that? >> The various stress vectors in life, you

>> The various stress vectors in life, you know. um

know. um being a dad,

being a dad, trying to be the best husband.

trying to be the best husband. Um becoming successful uh in terms of

Um becoming successful uh in terms of coming into demand with projects and

coming into demand with projects and people approaching me with business

people approaching me with business partnerships

partnerships and um me thinking, geez, I I worked

and um me thinking, geez, I I worked like two decades for this for this stuff

like two decades for this for this stuff to happen. How can I turn anything down?

to happen. How can I turn anything down? you know, so I said, "Yes, I'll do that.

you know, so I said, "Yes, I'll do that. Yes, I'll do that. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

Yes, I'll do that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes." And then pretty soon your your

yes." And then pretty soon your your yeses just stack up and your work pile

yeses just stack up and your work pile stacks up like this. All of those

stacks up like this. All of those things, you know, they kind of converge

things, you know, they kind of converge into this mix of stress and anxiety. And

into this mix of stress and anxiety. And alcohol

alcohol is a very convenient and very

is a very convenient and very available and very acceptable means

available and very acceptable means to

to engage in a substance that acts as an

engage in a substance that acts as an anxiety band-aid. My alcohol addiction

anxiety band-aid. My alcohol addiction was a very real thing. Uh, and

was a very real thing. Uh, and I'm really glad I I overcame it.

I'm really glad I I overcame it. >> Through this period from 40 to 46, 47,

>> Through this period from 40 to 46, 47, >> who were you and what is it that you

>> who were you and what is it that you you did that made you realize something

you did that made you realize something had to change?

>> So during that time period, I was just very reactive. to my

I was just very reactive. to my environment.

environment. >> I was just going with the flow.

>> I was just going with the flow. Uh I honestly was not

Uh I honestly was not as ambitious as I should have been and

as ambitious as I should have been and and focused on my goals.

and focused on my goals. I was comfortable.

I was comfortable. I was comfortable.

I was comfortable. And

And the unfortunate thing about the drink

the unfortunate thing about the drink and fortunate thing too is it it hit a

and fortunate thing too is it it hit a rock bottom point where

rock bottom point where I knew that it wasn't a matter of all

I knew that it wasn't a matter of all right I got to pull back or how am I

right I got to pull back or how am I going to moderate and this and that. It

going to moderate and this and that. It was more like

was more like I just need to stop. I just need to stop

I just need to stop. I just need to stop and I need to redirect this tendency

and I need to redirect this tendency towards routine. this tendency, this

towards routine. this tendency, this sort of obsessive compulsive thing of

sort of obsessive compulsive thing of needing to do the same thing daily, just

needing to do the same thing daily, just redirect it.

redirect it. >> How did you know you needed to stop?

>> How did you know you needed to stop? >> Oh, I knew that I needed to stop because

>> Oh, I knew that I needed to stop because my professional and personal life

my professional and personal life basically imploded all all because of my

basically imploded all all because of my my own actions.

my own actions. >> Now, for you, was it just a case of

>> Now, for you, was it just a case of right, I'm going to stop doing this or

right, I'm going to stop doing this or did you have to did you go somewhere?

did you have to did you go somewhere? Did you get support? Did you seek some

Did you get support? Did you seek some counseling or anything like that? So, I

counseling or anything like that? So, I have been able to just make the hardcore

have been able to just make the hardcore commitment to stop and keep that

commitment to stop and keep that commitment. And um I've been able to

commitment. And um I've been able to redirect my ritualistic tendencies

redirect my ritualistic tendencies towards training and good nutrition. And

towards training and good nutrition. And I get a lot of questions like every year

I get a lot of questions like every year I do a post on Instagram about how,

I do a post on Instagram about how, okay, it's year six now, not a single

okay, it's year six now, not a single drink. Here's what I've learned during

drink. Here's what I've learned during that time. And then uh next month

that time. And then uh next month uh actually on the 25th of August uh

uh actually on the 25th of August uh that's going to be year seven. So I'm

that's going to be year seven. So I'm going to do the same thing. And so the

going to do the same thing. And so the question I always get is so how do you

question I always get is so how do you stay abstinate? Like what what do you do

stay abstinate? Like what what do you do to not slip up?

to not slip up? And

And what I do is if I get kind of a craving

what I do is if I get kind of a craving or a nagging or a feeling like, "Oh my

or a nagging or a feeling like, "Oh my god, I got to have some alcohol."

god, I got to have some alcohol." Then I just sit back and I think through

Then I just sit back and I think through the scenario in my mind of me drinking

the scenario in my mind of me drinking to my degree of satisfaction, degree of,

to my degree of satisfaction, degree of, you know, s-facedness

and then I kind of picture that and then I picture how it might last for an hour

I picture how it might last for an hour or two and then after that hour or two I

or two and then after that hour or two I may have made some really bad

may have made some really bad impressions on on one or more people.

impressions on on one or more people. Uh, after that hour or two, I may have

Uh, after that hour or two, I may have plowed through the the hot wings at 2

plowed through the the hot wings at 2 3:00 a.m.

3:00 a.m. And then after that, feel like hell the

And then after that, feel like hell the next morning. Definitely can't work out

next morning. Definitely can't work out that day.

that day. And then where did that get me? And so I

And then where did that get me? And so I just go through that scenario in my

just go through that scenario in my mind. And then when I'm done going

mind. And then when I'm done going through that scenario, it takes like a

through that scenario, it takes like a minute and I'm right back at uh where I

minute and I'm right back at uh where I need to be uh mind frame wise.

need to be uh mind frame wise. >> I think the same could also apply that

>> I think the same could also apply that sort of visualization that premortem

sort of visualization that premortem where you kind of play out the scenario

where you kind of play out the scenario and see what the consequence would be

and see what the consequence would be can also be applied to many of the

can also be applied to many of the things we're talking about today around

things we're talking about today around diet and workouts and stuff like that.

diet and workouts and stuff like that. Like playing it forward to see how

Like playing it forward to see how you'll feel about it in the future and

you'll feel about it in the future and sort of visualizing those consequences.

sort of visualizing those consequences. Thank you for sharing that. I I think

Thank you for sharing that. I I think it's somewhat dovetailed into how what

it's somewhat dovetailed into how what what we're talking about about changing

what we're talking about about changing your life and motivation and discipline

your life and motivation and discipline like how does change occur in people and

like how does change occur in people and as you said it's when it becomes a

as you said it's when it becomes a priority and quite clearly in your life

priority and quite clearly in your life it became a priority for a number of

it became a priority for a number of reasons.

reasons. >> Yeah.

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feel, how you perform, how you think. So with all that in mind and because I

with all that in mind and because I became quite obsessed with electrolytes,

became quite obsessed with electrolytes, I decided that I was going to launch my

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own electrolytes company as you do. And as I was doing that, I spoke to my

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friend George Heaton and I said, "George, I'm launching this electrolytes

"George, I'm launching this electrolytes business. Can you take a look at it?" He

business. Can you take a look at it?" He said, "Stephen, me and my friend Ross

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electrolytes company on planet earth. Cheers.

Cheers. How do you feel about artificial

How do you feel about artificial sweeteners? Are they uh is there any

sweeteners? Are they uh is there any watchouts that we should be aware of?

watchouts that we should be aware of? Generally speaking, they're a nothing

Generally speaking, they're a nothing burger and there's a lot of

burger and there's a lot of scaremongering around artificial

scaremongering around artificial sweeteners.

sweeteners. But there is one artificial sweetener

But there is one artificial sweetener that has a kind of a crappy track record

that has a kind of a crappy track record for both impairing glucose control and

for both impairing glucose control and also weight gain. And that's saccharine.

also weight gain. And that's saccharine. So saccharine is the one artificial

So saccharine is the one artificial sweetener that's kind of bombed out at

sweetener that's kind of bombed out at the bomb shelter there as far as the

the bomb shelter there as far as the literature is concerned. But the good

literature is concerned. But the good news about saccharine,

news about saccharine, it's by the way, it's the little pink

it's by the way, it's the little pink packet things.

packet things. It's not really uh commercially

It's not really uh commercially pervasive.

pervasive. >> So it's not that popular anyway.

>> So it's not that popular anyway. >> No, it's almost commercially extinct.

>> No, it's almost commercially extinct. So, um, the other sweeteners like

So, um, the other sweeteners like sucralose, aspartame, stevia, or some

sucralose, aspartame, stevia, or some people call it stevia, um, they're all

people call it stevia, um, they're all fair game. They're all in the same boat.

fair game. They're all in the same boat. All pretty dang innocuous. And you'd

All pretty dang innocuous. And you'd have to consume

have to consume impossible amounts of those things to

impossible amounts of those things to incur negative health effects in in a

incur negative health effects in in a lifetime, really.

lifetime, really. >> Because some people have thought that

>> Because some people have thought that they're potentially carcen,

they're potentially carcen, these sort of artificial sweeteners that

these sort of artificial sweeteners that you find in certain diet beverages.

you find in certain diet beverages. >> Yeah. No, that's that's definitely a

>> Yeah. No, that's that's definitely a leap. That's definitely a leap based on

leap. That's definitely a leap based on animal data and completely unrealistic

animal data and completely unrealistic doses and conditions that are irrelevant

doses and conditions that are irrelevant to human physiology.

to human physiology. Yeah, it's it's more dangerous stepping

Yeah, it's it's more dangerous stepping out and breathing in the the city air

out and breathing in the the city air basically.

basically. >> What is the most important thing we

>> What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have

haven't talked about that we should have talked about, Alan,

talked about, Alan, for the people that are sat at home

for the people that are sat at home listening to this?

listening to this? >> A really damn good question.

>> A really damn good question. Okay. So,

Okay. So, if we look at the things people care

if we look at the things people care about that don't freaking matter in

about that don't freaking matter in terms of diet,

terms of diet, they fixate on weird buzzwords like they

they fixate on weird buzzwords like they fixate on not even they don't have to be

fixate on not even they don't have to be weird words but like sugar for example.

weird words but like sugar for example. There has been such scaremongering

There has been such scaremongering around sugar to the point that people

around sugar to the point that people don't delineate between added sugars to

don't delineate between added sugars to the diet versus sugar that is intrinsic

the diet versus sugar that is intrinsic or naturally occurring in foods. Things

or naturally occurring in foods. Things like fruit, fresh fruit

like fruit, fresh fruit >> and even milk has naturally occurring uh

>> and even milk has naturally occurring uh sugar in it. Lactose

sugar in it. Lactose um can be problematic for um some of the

um can be problematic for um some of the population. But look at fresh fruit.

population. But look at fresh fruit. I've actually heard people

I've actually heard people vilify fruit because it has sugar

vilify fruit because it has sugar and

and it's one thing to take an idea and put

it's one thing to take an idea and put out a a plausible claim. Okay, so yeah,

out a a plausible claim. Okay, so yeah, it's got sugar and then you know we all

it's got sugar and then you know we all know that if you add a ton of sugar to

know that if you add a ton of sugar to the diet, you lower the quality of the

the diet, you lower the quality of the diet and then you can um push your bets

diet and then you can um push your bets towards negative health consequences

towards negative health consequences down the line. Okay, that that's fine.

down the line. Okay, that that's fine. That's reasonable. But

That's reasonable. But even though fruit has sugar, it also has

even though fruit has sugar, it also has a ton of other beneficial components to

a ton of other beneficial components to it. And it's in this low calorie, high

it. And it's in this low calorie, high water, high micronutrient density

water, high micronutrient density package that is satiating and displaces

package that is satiating and displaces stomach space for other wise junky foods

stomach space for other wise junky foods that you may a lot of people would have

that you may a lot of people would have consumed instead of that fruit.

consumed instead of that fruit. But beyond all that, for forget about

But beyond all that, for forget about all the reasoning and stuff, let's look

all the reasoning and stuff, let's look at the literature. Does fruit cause

at the literature. Does fruit cause negative health consequences? Does it

negative health consequences? Does it cause things like impaired blood glucose

cause things like impaired blood glucose control? Does it cause obesity? Does it

control? Does it cause obesity? Does it cause weight gain? Uh, it does the

cause weight gain? Uh, it does the opposite of all those things. Fresh

opposite of all those things. Fresh fruit actually has been shown to improve

fruit actually has been shown to improve glycemic control, improve body weight,

glycemic control, improve body weight, improve body composition, and improve

improve body composition, and improve the protection against a range of

the protection against a range of cardioabolic diseases and cancer. So

cardioabolic diseases and cancer. So it doesn't really matter what anybody

it doesn't really matter what anybody says. We just have to face face the

says. We just have to face face the evidence. Um there's something called

evidence. Um there's something called the glycemic index that was big in the

the glycemic index that was big in the 80s and 90s and people were it's kind of

80s and 90s and people were it's kind of come back around again. glycemic index.

come back around again. glycemic index. You got to avoid the high glycemic index

You got to avoid the high glycemic index foods and things like that. And there's

foods and things like that. And there's a couple of fruits that are actually

a couple of fruits that are actually have a high glycemic index. That would

have a high glycemic index. That would be pineapples and and watermelons,

be pineapples and and watermelons, >> watermelons.

>> watermelons. >> Yeah. High on the GI scale. But the way

>> Yeah. High on the GI scale. But the way that glycemic index is determined is you

that glycemic index is determined is you get 50 grams of carbohydrate from a

get 50 grams of carbohydrate from a given food regardless of the amount that

given food regardless of the amount that you have to eat. 50 grams of it. And

you have to eat. 50 grams of it. And then you measure its effect on your

then you measure its effect on your blood sugar levels for 2 hours after

blood sugar levels for 2 hours after ingestion. I was going to say cuz

ingestion. I was going to say cuz watermelon's seen as keto friendly which

watermelon's seen as keto friendly which is but but

is but but >> watermelons have what's called a low

>> watermelons have what's called a low glycemic load. So they have a very low

glycemic load. So they have a very low amount of carbohydrate per serving.

amount of carbohydrate per serving. >> Yeah. Per serving. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Per serving. Yeah. >> Even though the carbohydrate itself if

>> Even though the carbohydrate itself if you were to gather 50 grams of it

you were to gather 50 grams of it >> would have a a more pronounced effect on

>> would have a a more pronounced effect on blood sugar elevations.

blood sugar elevations. And so they're even though fruits those

And so they're even though fruits those fruits have a high GI and certain foods

fruits have a high GI and certain foods have a high GI, they have a low glycemic

have a high GI, they have a low glycemic load. And ultimately people need to stop

load. And ultimately people need to stop um stop and think about things like the

um stop and think about things like the the longest living populations on the

the longest living populations on the planet do not avoid fruit. The fruit is

planet do not avoid fruit. The fruit is a regular part of their intake.

a regular part of their intake. >> What about the white stuff? The white

>> What about the white stuff? The white sort of added sugar. The is it called

sort of added sugar. The is it called refined sugar?

refined sugar? >> What about We can call it added sugar.

>> What about We can call it added sugar. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> What about the added sugar?

>> What about the added sugar? >> Added sugar is problematic in two

>> Added sugar is problematic in two different ways at least. So the first

different ways at least. So the first way is it's diluting the nutrient

way is it's diluting the nutrient density of the diet. It's uh it's a

density of the diet. It's uh it's a phenomenon called micronutrient

phenomenon called micronutrient dilution. when you have just a bunch of

dilution. when you have just a bunch of junk

junk micronutrient-free calories in the diet.

micronutrient-free calories in the diet. The other way that it poses a problem is

The other way that it poses a problem is because it is usually packaged with

because it is usually packaged with highly processed and engineered refined

highly processed and engineered refined carbohydrate and fat combination foods.

carbohydrate and fat combination foods. So, your classic desserts,

So, your classic desserts, pastries, cookies, cakes, things like

pastries, cookies, cakes, things like that.

that. And so the sugar itself, if you were to

And so the sugar itself, if you were to if I were to just put a a jar of sugar

if I were to just put a a jar of sugar in front of you and say, "Hey, I

in front of you and say, "Hey, I challenge you to not just spoon that

challenge you to not just spoon that in." You'll go, "Oh, no problem." You

in." You'll go, "Oh, no problem." You know, it's people paint sugar out to be

know, it's people paint sugar out to be this inherently evil thing. But the way

this inherently evil thing. But the way that it gets into trouble is when it is

that it gets into trouble is when it is a part of these hyper palatable, highly

a part of these hyper palatable, highly processed, high, highly engineered

processed, high, highly engineered dessert and snack foods. And so that is

dessert and snack foods. And so that is the main issue with added sugar. And the

the main issue with added sugar. And the various health organizations I mentioned

various health organizations I mentioned the Institute of Medicine or now the

the Institute of Medicine or now the National Academy of Medicine saying,

National Academy of Medicine saying, "Hey, we need to cut off our added

"Hey, we need to cut off our added sugars at 25% of the diet." There's the

sugars at 25% of the diet." There's the World Health Organization who presents

World Health Organization who presents the sort of the absolutely terrified

the sort of the absolutely terrified version of that where they want people

version of that where they want people to max out their added sugar to to 5% of

to max out their added sugar to to 5% of the calories in the diet. But that's

the calories in the diet. But that's usually not realistic

usually not realistic and it gets a little bit extreme to the

and it gets a little bit extreme to the point of being um pathological. So,

point of being um pathological. So, >> so what would you say

>> so what would you say >> about 10% of total calories max wi with

>> about 10% of total calories max wi with added sugar and that would fall kind of

added sugar and that would fall kind of right into this discretionary caloric

right into this discretionary caloric aotment of 10 to 20% of calories kind of

aotment of 10 to 20% of calories kind of from whatever you want and I would want

from whatever you want and I would want to qualify that 10 to 20% margin by

to qualify that 10 to 20% margin by saying that if you're hyper caloric

saying that if you're hyper caloric in other words if you're consuming more

in other words if you're consuming more calories than you're taking in you're

calories than you're taking in you're trying to gain weight or something like

trying to gain weight or something like that you probably want to keep your your

that you probably want to keep your your discretionary calorie aotment to 10% or

discretionary calorie aotment to 10% or your indulgence food to 10% rather than

your indulgence food to 10% rather than 20%.

20%. >> How many days a week do you go to the

>> How many days a week do you go to the gym?

gym? >> Four to five.

>> Four to five. >> I'm just trying to confront this this

>> I'm just trying to confront this this question mark in my head about if you go

question mark in my head about if you go to the gym seven days a week, for

to the gym seven days a week, for example, is that not giving your body

example, is that not giving your body enough time to rest? But I guess it

enough time to rest? But I guess it depends what you're doing there and how

depends what you're doing there and how hard you're working.

hard you're working. >> Yeah. A great example of that is total

>> Yeah. A great example of that is total sets per week.

sets per week. >> Okay. you know, like you can cram, let's

>> Okay. you know, like you can cram, let's imagine for a given muscle group, you do

imagine for a given muscle group, you do like nine nine sets a week or 10 sets a

like nine nine sets a week or 10 sets a week. Uh, you could probably get those

week. Uh, you could probably get those in in a single session, but it's more

in in a single session, but it's more productive to probably spread it out

productive to probably spread it out over at least two days.

over at least two days. >> How long does it take for me to start to

>> How long does it take for me to start to lose muscle?

lose muscle? >> Oh man. Okay, that is a good question

>> Oh man. Okay, that is a good question and a tough one. So muscle loss happens

and a tough one. So muscle loss happens very rapidly in bedridden individuals.

very rapidly in bedridden individuals. So lean mass just especially critically

So lean mass just especially critically ill folks, oh man, goes really fast.

ill folks, oh man, goes really fast. Contrast that with you taking a week off

Contrast that with you taking a week off or even two weeks off, but it's more of

or even two weeks off, but it's more of like um an active rest where you're not

like um an active rest where you're not just merely sitting around.

just merely sitting around. You could probably go a couple weeks

You could probably go a couple weeks before you start noticing

before you start noticing material drops in in strength and

material drops in in strength and fitness. Uh 3 weeks, yeah, you'll

fitness. Uh 3 weeks, yeah, you'll definitely I think you'll definitely

definitely I think you'll definitely feel that.

feel that. >> And do I need to work out till failure

>> And do I need to work out till failure in terms of resistance training and

in terms of resistance training and like, you know, bicep curls, whatever,

like, you know, bicep curls, whatever, in order to get gains? Do I need to be

in order to get gains? Do I need to be going all the way until I can't curl it

going all the way until I can't curl it anymore?

anymore? It depends on the goal. Um, you

It depends on the goal. Um, you mentioned that your goal was to gain

mentioned that your goal was to gain muscle.

muscle. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, in reality, um, and and this

>> So, in reality, um, and and this question is surprisingly more complex

question is surprisingly more complex than you might hope it it's going to be,

than you might hope it it's going to be, but okay. When people try to train to

but okay. When people try to train to failure, and this has been tested out in

failure, and this has been tested out in the research literature, they usually

the research literature, they usually automatically leave one to two reps in

automatically leave one to two reps in the tank, even three reps in the tank.

the tank, even three reps in the tank. And even trained even resistance trained

And even trained even resistance trained subjects when you tell them to train a

subjects when you tell them to train a failure or leave one rep in reserve,

failure or leave one rep in reserve, they'll routinely leave actually two to

they'll routinely leave actually two to three reps in reserve. So people

three reps in reserve. So people underestimate their their abilities to

underestimate their their abilities to push uh they usually as almost an

push uh they usually as almost an automatic margin there that the body

automatic margin there that the body sort of regulates and governs

sort of regulates and governs >> and sort of automatically prevents you

>> and sort of automatically prevents you from going. So with that said, I think

from going. So with that said, I think that most people can train to failure

that most people can train to failure without worrying about whether they're

without worrying about whether they're violating the the golden uh guidelines

violating the the golden uh guidelines seen in the literature. what it's very

seen in the literature. what it's very common for um the consensus in the

common for um the consensus in the exercise science community, even in the

exercise science community, even in the hypertrophy folks to say, "Yeah, leave

hypertrophy folks to say, "Yeah, leave one to two reps in reserve."

one to two reps in reserve." I think that depends on on the exercise.

I think that depends on on the exercise. So, you'd be kind of a fool to be doing

So, you'd be kind of a fool to be doing lateral raises to to like to think that

lateral raises to to like to think that you can't do partials for lateral raises

you can't do partials for lateral raises and and still get some benefit out of

and and still get some benefit out of it. And you'd be kind of a fool to

it. And you'd be kind of a fool to think, "Yeah, I'm going to do

think, "Yeah, I'm going to do concentration curls here. I'm gonna

concentration curls here. I'm gonna leave one to two reps in reserve." No,

leave one to two reps in reserve." No, that's different. On the other hand,

that's different. On the other hand, deadlifting, benching, squatting, these

deadlifting, benching, squatting, these sort of a

sort of a free weight barbell multi-jint types of

free weight barbell multi-jint types of movements, oh, they're they're more

movements, oh, they're they're more conducive to leaving one to two reps in

conducive to leaving one to two reps in the tank. But for single joint isolation

the tank. But for single joint isolation exercises and even machine exercises and

exercises and even machine exercises and lighter loads

lighter loads where it's safe, take it to failure.

where it's safe, take it to failure. Man,

Man, >> we have a closing tradition on this

>> we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a

podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next not knowing who

question for the next not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question

they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is how does nature impact

left for you is how does nature impact on your life?

on your life? >> It it it has quite a big impact.

>> It it it has quite a big impact. Um yeah it it has an impact and and

Um yeah it it has an impact and and obviously the environment is important.

obviously the environment is important. >> I'm wondering through the lens of what

>> I'm wondering through the lens of what you do in terms of you know you know

you do in terms of you know you know mindset and health and psych you know

mindset and health and psych you know these kinds of things if you think much

these kinds of things if you think much about being outside

about being outside versus being inside. You know, I've even

versus being inside. You know, I've even read some interesting studies around

read some interesting studies around people that run outside versus on a

people that run outside versus on a treadmill have more sort of uh have

treadmill have more sort of uh have cognitive benefits

cognitive benefits because the brain is stimulated more.

because the brain is stimulated more. >> I think that there there's a good amount

>> I think that there there's a good amount of literature on the

of literature on the psychological benefits of of just being

psychological benefits of of just being in nature or even getting getting some

in nature or even getting getting some sun. And I think that there's

sun. And I think that there's epidemiological like population based

epidemiological like population based data showing that the marine communities

data showing that the marine communities tend to be the longevity champs.

tend to be the longevity champs. >> Marine, what does that mean?

>> Marine, what does that mean? >> Uh communities that that live by the

>> Uh communities that that live by the ocean are close to the ocean.

ocean are close to the ocean. And

And >> probably that all that omega-3 they're

>> probably that all that omega-3 they're eating from the fish

eating from the fish >> and that factors in as well for sure.

>> and that factors in as well for sure. But that just the kind almost the

But that just the kind almost the metaphysical effect of going to the

metaphysical effect of going to the beach, you know, that's got to play in

beach, you know, that's got to play in it. And so so yeah, I I I think it

it. And so so yeah, I I I think it definitely has an effect and I think

definitely has an effect and I think that there are data that we can point to

that there are data that we can point to that says it does.

that says it does. >> Alan, where where should people go right

>> Alan, where where should people go right now if they want to learn more from you?

now if they want to learn more from you? Where where is the best place to follow

Where where is the best place to follow you for more information as as you

you for more information as as you continue to investigate and educate on

continue to investigate and educate on the science of all of the things we've

the science of all of the things we've talked about today?

talked about today? My website is alanaragon.com.

My website is alanaragon.com. That's the hub of everything. And maybe

That's the hub of everything. And maybe my most active social media platform is

my most active social media platform is Instagram. So that is at the Allen

Instagram. So that is at the Allen Aragon.

Aragon. >> And this book I have in front of me.

>> And this book I have in front of me. When did you write this book?

When did you write this book? >> I wrote that thing from

>> I wrote that thing from Well, it includes the 30 years of

Well, it includes the 30 years of experience that I was talking about

experience that I was talking about earlier. Mhm.

earlier. Mhm. >> So, I've just crammed the 30 years into

>> So, I've just crammed the 30 years into there. But the actual writing of that

there. But the actual writing of that took from about 20

took from about 20 all the way to 2022.

all the way to 2022. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Took about two years.

>> Took about two years. >> So, first published in 2022. And it's

>> So, first published in 2022. And it's really like a bible. That's kind of the

really like a bible. That's kind of the way I describe it. And it has everything

way I describe it. And it has everything in it from what I love about it is you

in it from what I love about it is you have all these pictures as well.

have all these pictures as well. >> I'm glad you like it. Well, I mean it's

>> I'm glad you like it. Well, I mean it's like it's it's dare I say it's it's

like it's it's dare I say it's it's quite like a

quite like a like a like a nice accessible textbook.

like a like a nice accessible textbook. >> Well, there's been a couple of

>> Well, there's been a couple of professors who've adopted it and made it

professors who've adopted it and made it a part of their curriculum.

a part of their curriculum. >> Interesting. Doesn't surprise me.

>> Interesting. Doesn't surprise me. >> Yeah. Hunter Waldman is one of them.

>> Yeah. Hunter Waldman is one of them. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Thank you so much, Alan. Thank you for

>> Thank you so much, Alan. Thank you for doing what you do. Um, people love your

doing what you do. Um, people love your message because it's so demystifying in

message because it's so demystifying in a world that is increasingly mystified

a world that is increasingly mystified by lots of information from lots of

by lots of information from lots of different people. So, please do continue

different people. So, please do continue to do what you're doing. And I I uh I'm

to do what you're doing. And I I uh I'm rooting for you in this new season of

rooting for you in this new season of life where you're going to get even

life where you're going to get even closer to patients once again and

closer to patients once again and clients once again and be even more

clients once again and be even more hands-on with your community. So, I

hands-on with your community. So, I highly recommend everybody goes and

highly recommend everybody goes and follows you on Instagram to keep track

follows you on Instagram to keep track of how they can join your community and

of how they can join your community and be one of those people that you directly

be one of those people that you directly impact with your work. And yeah, I'm

impact with your work. And yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna subscribe to your review

gonna I'm gonna subscribe to your review so that I can stay ahead of all of the

so that I can stay ahead of all of the um the scientific literature as and when

um the scientific literature as and when it comes out because for me it is quite

it comes out because for me it is quite demystifying. But you you're one of the

demystifying. But you you're one of the great voices in this space of um

great voices in this space of um simplification and understanding. So I

simplification and understanding. So I applaud you for that.

applaud you for that. >> I think it's all learnable. It's all

>> I think it's all learnable. It's all teachable. But thank you so much for the

teachable. But thank you so much for the opportunity to be on this show. This is

opportunity to be on this show. This is huge. And uh thank you all for tuning

huge. And uh thank you all for tuning in.

in. >> Thank you. We're done.

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